Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 03:17:51 +0100, Steven J. Long wrote: You might as well ask why do you need or want any other form of IPC you already have, as that is what dbus is. It's a very small, light daemon, can run system-wide or per-session and has the potential to many of the IPC implementations you already have. Those are the ones that don't happen to show up in ps so you hear very little whinging about them. You might as well just use the existing IPC mechanisms too, Yes, lets have lots of IPC mechanisms instead of one daemon that handles IPC for everything. While we're at it, let's get rid of syslog and add file logging code to every program that needs it. cron and at seem a bit of a waste of space too. -- Neil Bothwick Micro-: (prefix) anything both very small and very expensive. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
On 24/07/2013 11:02, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 03:17:51 +0100, Steven J. Long wrote: You might as well ask why do you need or want any other form of IPC you already have, as that is what dbus is. It's a very small, light daemon, can run system-wide or per-session and has the potential to many of the IPC implementations you already have. Those are the ones that don't happen to show up in ps so you hear very little whinging about them. You might as well just use the existing IPC mechanisms too, Yes, lets have lots of IPC mechanisms instead of one daemon that handles IPC for everything. While we're at it, let's get rid of syslog and add file logging code to every program that needs it. cron and at seem a bit of a waste of space too. you forgot that shared library nonsense. Every app should just bundle static copies of everything it needs and leave it up to the dev to deal with bugs and security issues -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
[gentoo-user] QEMU setup questions
So I emerged QEMU, which pulled in some dependancies. Things are not going well... 1) The following warning shows up in elog... WARN: pretend You have decided to compile your own SeaBIOS. This is not supported by upstream unless you use their recommended toolchain (which you are not). If you are intending to use this build with QEMU, realize you will not receive any support if you have compiled your own SeaBIOS. Virtual machines subtly fail based on changes in SeaBIOS. I don't see any USE flags about this. 2) I download a Gentoo install ISO, and create a 7 gig raw file sda.raw, and start qemu-kvm $ qemu-kvm -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d Could not access KVM kernel module: Permission denied failed to initialize KVM: Permission denied but... but... but... I am a member of group kvm. 3) su to root and retry to start QEMU # qemu-kvm -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d qemu-system-x86_64: pci_add_option_rom: failed to find romfile pxe-e1000.rom VNC server running on `127.0.0.1:5900' So root has sufficient permission, but there's a problem with the BIOS, possibly related to item 1) above Note; I can run as regular user, either of the 2 commands... $ qemu-system-i386 -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d $ qemu-system-x86_64 -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d This doesn't run into permission problem 2), but still runs into the rom not found problem 3). 4) At least VNC is running. I emerged tigervnc and tried it $ vncviewer TigerVNC Viewer 64-bit v1.2.0 (20130723) Built on Jul 23 2013 at 21:36:16 Copyright (C) 1999-2011 TigerVNC Team and many others (see README.txt) See http://www.tigervnc.org for information on TigerVNC. X_ChangeGC: BadFont (invalid Font parameter) 0x0 ...and the dialog box is all blanks, presumably because of the missing fonts. I had QEMU working a few years ago, and I don't remember running into all these problems. What gives? -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
[gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
What is the status or portage 2.2? It takes so long to get out of alpha. Has anyone here had any serious problems with it? I've been using it for a a few years without any accidents. Just wondering if I should be prepared for the worst. I also remember reading in Changelog that 2.2 remains masked until 2.1 gets enough testing, that was ages ago. It initially suported set arithmetic (you could writes expressions like @set1+@set2/@set3), I wonder why it was dropped :)
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On 24/07/2013 12:00, Pavel Volkov wrote: What is the status or portage 2.2? It takes so long to get out of alpha. Has anyone here had any serious problems with it? I've been using it for a a few years without any accidents. Just wondering if I should be prepared for the worst. I also remember reading in Changelog that 2.2 remains masked until 2.1 gets enough testing, that was ages ago. It initially suported set arithmetic (you could writes expressions like @set1+@set2/@set3), I wonder why it was dropped :) you've been using it for years, it has gone through 186 alpha versions and before that just over 100 pre versions. You never had a problem with it. Neither has anyone else really. So what are you worried about again? Just pretend that alpha isn't in the name and it isn't masked - effectively that is actual status - last I heard from Zac there is one or two odd edge cases that still aren't 100% right, but few people ever run into them. You are highly unlikely to be one of those few people. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On 24/07/13 at 02:00pm, Pavel Volkov wrote: It initially suported set arithmetic (you could writes expressions like @set1+@set2/@set3), I wonder why it was dropped :) Wow thats intresting. What could the / operator possibly do in the case of sets? -- - Yohan Pereira The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and a seal. -- Mark Twain
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 14:00:54 +0400, Pavel Volkov wrote: It initially suported set arithmetic (you could writes expressions like @set1+@set2/@set3), I wonder why it was dropped :) What does that mean? set1 and one of set2 or set 3? Or both set1 and set2 or set3 only? I'm not sure how this would be useful but I can certainly see how it would cause confusion and problems, but I hadn't heard if it before. -- Neil Bothwick Of course it's not your day, With 7 billion people on earth chances are slim it will ever be *your* day. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On 24/07/2013 12:17, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 14:00:54 +0400, Pavel Volkov wrote: It initially suported set arithmetic (you could writes expressions like @set1+@set2/@set3), I wonder why it was dropped :) What does that mean? set1 and one of set2 or set 3? Or both set1 and set2 or set3 only? I'm not sure how this would be useful but I can certainly see how it would cause confusion and problems, but I hadn't heard if it before. It's standard mathematical set operators. In maths, a set is defined as a collection of well-defined objects. Sets have no dupes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_%28mathematics%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory Sets have several well-defined operations that can be done on them: union, intersection, difference plus a few others. @set1+@set2/@set3 reduces to: all the elements of set1 and set2 without the elements that are in set3 (/ is difference). As an example, assume portage ships two sets @kde and @kdedev: @kde kdeadmin-meta kdebase-meta kdemultimedia-meta kdepim-meta ... @kdedev kdewebdev-meta kdebindings-meta kdesdk-meta However, kmail sucks and akonadi sucks moar, so define for yourself @suckykde kdepim-meta And add to your world sets: @kde+@kdedev/@suckykde effectively giving you kde without kde-pim. Without operators, you have to copy-paste an existing set and maually remove the entriess you don't want. Useful, not so? Well, it all gets extremely murky very very quickly. Portage applies more than just mathematical sets, there's this concept of deps that are not part of set theory. What if something in set1 has a dep, and that dep is listed in set3 and must be removed. To resolve this, you must have precedence rules and must ignore something. You either ignore set3 and install anyway, or throw a blocker and say the item is required in set1. Either way there's no clean way to do it and lots of users are going to get annoyed. Not to mention the extra bug reports -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Yohan Pereira yohan.pere...@gmail.comwrote: On 24/07/13 at 02:00pm, Pavel Volkov wrote: It initially suported set arithmetic (you could writes expressions like @set1+@set2/@set3), I wonder why it was dropped :) Wow thats intresting. What could the / operator possibly do in the case of sets? I'm not sure about the correct notation but I think it was intersection.
Re: [gentoo-user] QEMU setup questions
On 24/07/13 17:50, Walter Dnes wrote: So I emerged QEMU, which pulled in some dependancies. Things are not going well... 1) The following warning shows up in elog... WARN: pretend You have decided to compile your own SeaBIOS. This is not supported by upstream unless you use their recommended toolchain (which you are not). If you are intending to use this build with QEMU, realize you will not receive any support if you have compiled your own SeaBIOS. Virtual machines subtly fail based on changes in SeaBIOS. I don't see any USE flags about this. 2) I download a Gentoo install ISO, and create a 7 gig raw file sda.raw, and start qemu-kvm $ qemu-kvm -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d Could not access KVM kernel module: Permission denied failed to initialize KVM: Permission denied but... but... but... I am a member of group kvm. 3) su to root and retry to start QEMU # qemu-kvm -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d qemu-system-x86_64: pci_add_option_rom: failed to find romfile pxe-e1000.rom VNC server running on `127.0.0.1:5900' So root has sufficient permission, but there's a problem with the BIOS, possibly related to item 1) above Note; I can run as regular user, either of the 2 commands... $ qemu-system-i386 -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d $ qemu-system-x86_64 -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d This doesn't run into permission problem 2), but still runs into the rom not found problem 3). 4) At least VNC is running. I emerged tigervnc and tried it $ vncviewer TigerVNC Viewer 64-bit v1.2.0 (20130723) Built on Jul 23 2013 at 21:36:16 Copyright (C) 1999-2011 TigerVNC Team and many others (see README.txt) See http://www.tigervnc.org for information on TigerVNC. X_ChangeGC: BadFont (invalid Font parameter) 0x0 ...and the dialog box is all blanks, presumably because of the missing fonts. I had QEMU working a few years ago, and I don't remember running into all these problems. What gives? its working ok for me - what versions of qemu/seabios/kernel? I have: * sys-firmware/seabios Latest version available: 1.7.2.1 binary USE flag set for upstream compiled binaries ... using the binary USE flag (upstream compiled) * app-emulation/qemu Latest version available: 1.4.2 ... and kernel 3.10.1 Cant help with the perms as I am running as root on dedicated hardware BillK
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On 24/07/2013 12:52, Pavel Volkov wrote: On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Yohan Pereira yohan.pere...@gmail.com mailto:yohan.pere...@gmail.com wrote: On 24/07/13 at 02:00pm, Pavel Volkov wrote: It initially suported set arithmetic (you could writes expressions like @set1+@set2/@set3), I wonder why it was dropped :) Wow thats intresting. What could the / operator possibly do in the case of sets? I'm not sure about the correct notation but I think it was intersection. Difference actually :-) I can't think how intersection could be generally useful in portage sets. Maybe it was in the first draft just for completeness? -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] QEMU setup questions
On 24/07/2013 10:50, Walter Dnes wrote: So I emerged QEMU, which pulled in some dependancies. Things are not going well... 1) The following warning shows up in elog... WARN: pretend You have decided to compile your own SeaBIOS. This is not supported by upstream unless you use their recommended toolchain (which you are not). If you are intending to use this build with QEMU, realize you will not receive any support if you have compiled your own SeaBIOS. Virtual machines subtly fail based on changes in SeaBIOS. I don't see any USE flags about this. The binary flag is an IUSE default but you're preventing the flag from being enabled somehow. 2) I download a Gentoo install ISO, and create a 7 gig raw file sda.raw, and start qemu-kvm $ qemu-kvm -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d Could not access KVM kernel module: Permission denied failed to initialize KVM: Permission denied but... but... but... I am a member of group kvm. Check that KVM support is available in the kernel (CONFIG_KVM_INTEL or CONFIG_KVM_AMD as appropriate). Another thing to bear in mind is that older kernels are unable to load the module on an on-demand basis. I can't remember exactly in which version they changed that. You should end up with the following device node: # ls -l /dev/kvm crw-rw 1 root kvm 10, 232 Dec 2 2012 /dev/kvm 3) su to root and retry to start QEMU # qemu-kvm -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d qemu-system-x86_64: pci_add_option_rom: failed to find romfile pxe-e1000.rom VNC server running on `127.0.0.1:5900' So root has sufficient permission, but there's a problem with the BIOS, possibly related to item 1) above Note; I can run as regular user, either of the 2 commands... $ qemu-system-i386 -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d $ qemu-system-x86_64 -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d This doesn't run into permission problem 2), but still runs into the rom not found problem 3). 4) At least VNC is running. I emerged tigervnc and tried it $ vncviewer TigerVNC Viewer 64-bit v1.2.0 (20130723) Built on Jul 23 2013 at 21:36:16 Copyright (C) 1999-2011 TigerVNC Team and many others (see README.txt) Seehttp://www.tigervnc.org for information on TigerVNC. X_ChangeGC: BadFont (invalid Font parameter) 0x0 ...and the dialog box is all blanks, presumably because of the missing fonts. VNC servers and clients vary in their capabilities rather more than they ought to. I would suggest tightvnc as I've found that to work splendidly with qemu. --Kerin
[gentoo-user] fdisk: DOS/GPT
Noticed something strange about fdisk output. EXAMPLE 1. We see nothing out of place here. It displays a warning. [rondo:rondo]$ sudo fdisk -l /dev/sda Password: WARNING: fdisk GPT support is currently new, and therefore in an experimental phase. Use at your own discretion. Disk /dev/sda: 64.0 GB, 64023257088 bytes, 125045424 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk label type: gpt # Start EndSize TypeName 1 204869631 33M EFI System 269632 415743169M Microsoft basic 3 415744 31873023 15G Microsoft basic 4 31873024125042687 44,4G Microsoft basic EXAMPLE 2. It says disk label is 'dos', not 'gpt' anymore. What is the GPT system of sdb1 then? And there's no warning now. [rondo:rondo]$ sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdb Disk /dev/sdb: 3000.6 GB, 3000592982016 bytes, 5860533168 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes Disk label type: dos Disk identifier: 0x Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdb1 1 4294967295 2147483647+ ee GPT Partition 1 does not start on physical sector boundary. EXAMPLE 3. I use parted now instead of fdisk. It says both sda and sdb have GPT labels. Model: ATA M4-CT064M4SSD2 (scsi) Disk /dev/sda: 64,0GB Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B Partition Table: gpt Disk Flags: Number Start End SizeFile system Name Flags 1 1049kB 35,7MB 34,6MB fat32 boot 2 35,7MB 213MB 177MB ext4 3 213MB 16,3GB 16,1GB ext4 4 16,3GB 64,0GB 47,7GB Model: ATA ST3000VX000-9YW1 (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 3001GB Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B Partition Table: gpt Disk Flags: Number Start End SizeFile system Name Flags 1 1049kB 3001GB 3001GB lvm BOTTOM LINE. Is fdisk lying to me?
[gentoo-user] bash-completion change?
As of bash-completion-2.1-r1 it appears the eselect module is gone and the use of /etc/bash-completion.d is dead. Does this mean that all completions are enabled globally by default now? It used to be that you could turn each individual one on/off either globally or per user. Anyone know what the new 'one true way' is here? -- Douglas J Hunley (doug.hun...@gmail.com) Twitter: @hunleyd Web: douglasjhunley.com G+: http://goo.gl/sajR3
[gentoo-user] Re: Portage 2.2
On 24/07/13 13:00, Pavel Volkov wrote: What is the status or portage 2.2? It takes so long to get out of alpha. Has anyone here had any serious problems with it? I've been using it for a a few years without any accidents. Just wondering if I should be prepared for the worst. I also remember reading in Changelog that 2.2 remains masked until 2.1 gets enough testing, that was ages ago. To me, it looks more like 2.2 is some sort of eternal testing version, and features from it are added to 2.1 over time. Now this might not be the intention, but it sure looks that way.
Re: [gentoo-user] QEMU setup questions
On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 11:57:41 +0100, Kerin Millar wrote: WARN: pretend You have decided to compile your own SeaBIOS. This is not supported by upstream unless you use their recommended toolchain (which you are not). If you are intending to use this build with QEMU, realize you will not receive any support if you have compiled your own SeaBIOS. Virtual machines subtly fail based on changes in SeaBIOS. I don't see any USE flags about this. The binary flag is an IUSE default but you're preventing the flag from being enabled somehow. That's the sort of fun you get with USE=-* :P 2) I download a Gentoo install ISO, and create a 7 gig raw file sda.raw, and start qemu-kvm $ qemu-kvm -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d Could not access KVM kernel module: Permission denied failed to initialize KVM: Permission denied Is the problem with reading the module file or loading it? If you modprobe the kvm module as root first, can you then run it as a user? You may want to add the module to /etc/conf.d/modules. -- Neil Bothwick To most people solutions mean finding the answers. But to chemists solutions are things that are still all mixed up. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 12:46:59 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: What does that mean? set1 and one of set2 or set 3? Or both set1 and set2 or set3 only? I'm not sure how this would be useful but I can certainly see how it would cause confusion and problems, but I hadn't heard if it before. It's standard mathematical set operators. In maths, a set is defined as a collection of well-defined objects. Sets have no dupes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_%28mathematics%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory Sets have several well-defined operations that can be done on them: union, intersection, difference plus a few others. @set1+@set2/@set3 reduces to: all the elements of set1 and set2 without the elements that are in set3 (/ is difference). As an example, assume portage ships two sets @kde and @kdedev: @kde kdeadmin-meta kdebase-meta kdemultimedia-meta kdepim-meta ... @kdedev kdewebdev-meta kdebindings-meta kdesdk-meta However, kmail sucks and akonadi sucks moar, so define for yourself @suckykde kdepim-meta And add to your world sets: @kde+@kdedev/@suckykde I see, what about operator precedence, is that equivalent to (@kde+@kdedev)/@kdesuckykde or @kde+(@kdedev/@kdesuckykde) It's been a long time since I studied set operators at Uni :( -- Neil Bothwick I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On 24/07/2013 15:20, Neil Bothwick wrote: However, kmail sucks and akonadi sucks moar, so define for yourself @suckykde kdepim-meta And add to your world sets: @kde+@kdedev/@suckykde I see, what about operator precedence, is that equivalent to (@kde+@kdedev)/@kdesuckykde or @kde+(@kdedev/@kdesuckykde) It's been a long time since I studied set operators at Uni :( I think it's the former. But I've been known to be wrong on things (lately, more often than not...) Just looked on The Google, and there's no consensus I can find. Best advice seems to be that union and difference are equal precedence so the expression is evaluated left to right. Hence it's the former :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] QEMU setup questions
On 24/07/2013 14:16, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 11:57:41 +0100, Kerin Millar wrote: WARN: pretend You have decided to compile your own SeaBIOS. This is not supported by upstream unless you use their recommended toolchain (which you are not). If you are intending to use this build with QEMU, realize you will not receive any support if you have compiled your own SeaBIOS. Virtual machines subtly fail based on changes in SeaBIOS. I don't see any USE flags about this. The binary flag is an IUSE default but you're preventing the flag from being enabled somehow. That's the sort of fun you get with USE=-* :P Indeed. I'd advocate this as a safer alternative: USE_ORDER=env:pkg:conf:pkginternal:repo:env.d --Kerin
Re: [gentoo-user] bash-completion change?
On Wednesday 24 July 2013 Douglas J Hunley wrote As of bash-completion-2.1-r1 it appears the eselect module is gone and the use of /etc/bash-completion.d is dead. Does this mean that all completions are enabled globally by default now? It used to be that you could turn each individual one on/off either globally or per user. Anyone know what the new 'one true way' is here? -- Douglas J Hunley (doug.hun...@gmail.com) Twitter: @hunleyd Web: douglasjhunley.com G+: http://goo.gl/sajR3 There are a few bugs regarding this issue, for example: 472938, 476992 and 477214. If I understand things correctly, all installed modules are enabled, but they're loaded on-demand (I guess this means the first time they're used, but I'm not sure). The way suggested in one of these bugs to have a working autocompletion is to source /usr/share/bash-completion/bash_completion from you .bashrc file. Stefano
[gentoo-user] /etc/profile is gone - how to chroot
Hi, previously and still documented nearly everywhere one has to do env-update source /etc/profile after chroot but in recent systems, the file /etc/profile is gone. How to adapt the environment in a new system? Many thanks for a hint, Helmut.
Re: [gentoo-user] /etc/profile is gone - how to chroot
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de wrote: Hi, previously and still documented nearly everywhere one has to do env-update source /etc/profile after chroot but in recent systems, the file /etc/profile is gone. How to adapt the environment in a new system? Hi, Do you have baselayout installed? /etc/profile should be included in baselayout.
Re: [gentoo-user] fdisk: DOS/GPT
On 24/07/2013 12:25, Pavel Volkov wrote: Is fdisk lying to me? It would appear so. If you are fond of fdisk, I'd suggest using gdisk as an alternative for managing disks using GPT. At least, until such time as the support in fdisk can be considered mature. --Kerin
Re: [gentoo-user] /etc/profile is gone - how to chroot
On 07/24/13 16:34:46, Paul Hartman wrote: On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de wrote: Hi, previously and still documented nearly everywhere one has to do env-update source /etc/profile after chroot but in recent systems, the file /etc/profile is gone. How to adapt the environment in a new system? Hi, Do you have baselayout installed? /etc/profile should be included in baselayout. Thanks, I had to reinstall baselayout (2.2). I wonder which package (systemd?) has removed /etc/profile since I didn't do it myself. Helmut.
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On 07/24/2013 09:27 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote: I think it's the former. But I've been known to be wrong on things (lately, more often than not...) Just looked on The Google, and there's no consensus I can find. Best advice seems to be that union and difference are equal precedence so the expression is evaluated left to right. Hence it's the former :-) You can rewrite (A \\ B) as (A !B), giving you one less case to worry about. But, some people (most notably, programming languages) assign a higher priority to intersection () than they do to union (||). Of course, mathematically, they should probably have the same priority, so many people do the left-to-right thing. So in practice, you'd better use parentheses if you want anyone to know WTF you're talking about.
Re: [gentoo-user] /etc/profile is gone - how to chroot
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de wrote: On 07/24/13 16:34:46, Paul Hartman wrote: On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de wrote: Hi, previously and still documented nearly everywhere one has to do env-update source /etc/profile after chroot but in recent systems, the file /etc/profile is gone. How to adapt the environment in a new system? Hi, Do you have baselayout installed? /etc/profile should be included in baselayout. Thanks, I had to reinstall baselayout (2.2). I wonder which package (systemd?) has removed /etc/profile since I didn't do it myself. Helmut. looks like both openrc and systemd should depend on baselayout, so that is very strange... Maybe you should file a bug about it.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 2:04 AM, András Csányi sayusi.a...@sayusi.hu wrote: On 23 July 2013 08:54, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote: On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote: This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally intended. not possible, logind since systemd = 205 requires systemd and won't work on openrc, upstart, and such as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we need openrc for Linux based systems and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power' to split up the old 'plugdev' Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead? Is there a migration guide? According to google there is no any. (or I haven't spend enough time to search) You have the wiki: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd I believe it covers the most important aspects of the migration. Also, it is so much easier now; we even have a stable version on systemd in the tree. Couldn't emerge systemd its blocked by udev -- did a google search, but found some very confusing posts to do with static-libs. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:28 PM, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 2:04 AM, András Csányi sayusi.a...@sayusi.hu wrote: On 23 July 2013 08:54, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote: On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote: This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally intended. not possible, logind since systemd = 205 requires systemd and won't work on openrc, upstart, and such as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we need openrc for Linux based systems and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power' to split up the old 'plugdev' Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead? Is there a migration guide? According to google there is no any. (or I haven't spend enough time to search) You have the wiki: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd I believe it covers the most important aspects of the migration. Also, it is so much easier now; we even have a stable version on systemd in the tree. Couldn't emerge systemd its blocked by udev -- did a google search, but found some very confusing posts to do with static-libs. systemd *is* udev; they are the same package. Uninstall the Gentoo packaging of udev (which basically strips systemd), install systemd, and it includes the official udev. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
Neil Bothwick wrote: Steven J. Long wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: You might as well ask why do you need or want any other form of IPC you already have, as that is what dbus is. It's a very small, light daemon, can run system-wide or per-session and has the potential to many of the IPC implementations you already have. You might as well just use the existing IPC mechanisms too, Yes, lets have lots of IPC mechanisms instead of one daemon that handles IPC for everything. It's called an operating system. While we're at it, let's get rid of syslog and add file logging code to every program that needs it. cron and at seem a bit of a waste of space too. Strawmen burn so well, don't they? I know, let's do all process-scheduling in user-space, I mean who needs preemptive multi-tasking when we have such experts in the early userspace at our disposal. User-land threading works really well too: so long as we worship at the altar of the great God Lennart, blocking and synchronisation can be handled via prayer and the sacrifice of a small, modular utility every sunrise. -- #friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
Alan McKinnon wrote: you forgot that shared library nonsense. Every app should just bundle static copies of everything it needs and leave it up to the dev to deal with bugs and security issues And you forgot: -lc prob'y because it's not required. -lrt comes into play too. I'd recommend a book or two, but I have the feeling you're not a coder, and your only response has been derogatory, so I don't think you'd get very far with them. Shame really, you and Neil were two of the people I most respected on this list. -- #friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)
[gentoo-user] Portage elog messages about historical symlinks
I am getting messages like the one below from portage every now and then. Especially, about /var/run, but in this case about a different directory: * Messages for package dev-libs/klibc-1.5.20: * One or more symlinks to directories have been preserved in order to * ensure that files installed via these symlinks remain accessible. This * indicates that the mentioned symlink(s) may be obsolete remnants of an * old install, and it may be appropriate to replace a given symlink with * the directory that it points to. * * /usr/lib/klibc/include/asm * Perhaps I am having a senior moment, but I am not clear what I should do despite the friendly message. This is the symlink in question: ls -la /usr/lib/klibc/include/asm lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Nov 8 2008 /usr/lib/klibc/include/asm - asm-x86 How am I supposed to *replace* it with the directory that it points to? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
On 24/07/2013 19:51, Steven J. Long wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: you forgot that shared library nonsense. Every app should just bundle static copies of everything it needs and leave it up to the dev to deal with bugs and security issues And you forgot: -lc prob'y because it's not required. -lrt comes into play too. I'd recommend a book or two, but I have the feeling you're not a coder, and your only response has been derogatory, so I don't think you'd get very far with them. Shame really, you and Neil were two of the people I most respected on this list. Hey dude, lighten up a bit. Neil and I are more than double the average age on this list. We're full of shit. And both British. So we're both full of shit twice. Peace and hugz OK? -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:46:59PM +0200, Penguin Lover Alan McKinnon squawked: @set1+@set2/@set3 reduces to: all the elements of set1 and set2 without the elements that are in set3 (/ is difference). Speaking as a mathematician (and A. Gottlieb will agree with me), I would be rather annoyed that they chose (if this is not a misquote from the original proposed documentation) to use '/' for set difference instead of '\' as it is supposed to be. Humph. W -- Data aequatione quotcunque fluentes quantitae involvente fluxiones invenire et vice versa ~~~ I. Newton
Re: [gentoo-user] Experiences with amd richland or trinity APUs?
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:09:12AM +0800, Penguin Lover tlze squawked: The actual models are A8 (trinity, RD 7560D GPU) and A10 (richland RD 8570D GPU), or a plain AthlonIIx4 (no GPU). My question is: Are these GPUs supported properly under linux? Does anyone have experiences with them? The ati-drivers is supported my A10.（ ati-drivers 支持我的A10 ） Nothing special attention to the place you want. （ 没什么要特别要注意的地方。） Uh, let me do a little bit of community service. tlze meant to write: The ati-drivers supports my A10, and there's nothing you should pay special attention to: it should just work. Willie -- Data aequatione quotcunque fluentes quantitae involvente fluxiones invenire et vice versa ~~~ I. Newton
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On Wed, Jul 24 2013, Willie WY Wong wrote: Speaking as a mathematician (and A. Gottlieb will agree with me), I would be rather annoyed that they chose (if this is not a misquote from the original proposed documentation) to use '/' for set difference instead of '\' as it is supposed to be. I was also surprised to see `/'. A part of me was going to send about quotient groups (the normal usage of '/') but I managed to refrain myself. However, now that willie has opened the door ... / is normally used for quotients. For example, if we take the group Z of integers under addition and the subgroup 2Z of the even integers, then Z / 2Z is the quotient that results from taking Z and identifying all the elements of 2Z. So in Z / 2Z, all the even integers are zero and hence all odd integers are equivalent (since they differ by even integers, which are zero). Thus the quotient has only 2 elements and is the familiar group Z2, the integers mod 2. The above can be generalized. allan
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
Alan McKinnon wrote: Peace and hugz OK? Definitely :-) POSIX 4: Programming for the Real World (Gallmeister, 1995) UNIX Network Programming vol 2: Interprocess Communications (Stevens, 1999) iirc the first is on safari-online; you can download code from the second here: http://www.kohala.com/start/unpv22e/unpv22e.html More here: https://foss.aueb.gr/posix/ If you've not had the pleasure of W Richard Stevens' writing, you have a treat in-store. I'd guess you guys have at least read some of the TCP/Illustrated series, though. Regards, steveL. -- #friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd - are we forced to switch?
Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:28 PM, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 2:04 AM, András Csányi sayusi.a...@sayusi.hu wrote: On 23 July 2013 08:54, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 23/07/13 08:43, Samuli Suominen wrote: On 23/07/13 00:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote: This would be a lot less of an issue if someone just wrote a logind ebuild (wink wink) that provides consolekit like it was originally intended. not possible, logind since systemd = 205 requires systemd and won't work on openrc, upstart, and such as in, the idea of using logind outside of systemd is a dead end so keeping ConsoleKit in portage for long as it works for long as we need openrc for Linux based systems and when it no longer works, the contingency plan is to ship vendor based polkit files that possibly either restore 'plugdev' group or provide similar groups to ArchLinux like 'network', 'storage', 'power' to split up the old 'plugdev' Wouldn't it be better to switch to systemd instead? Is there a migration guide? According to google there is no any. (or I haven't spend enough time to search) You have the wiki: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd I believe it covers the most important aspects of the migration. Also, it is so much easier now; we even have a stable version on systemd in the tree. Couldn't emerge systemd its blocked by udev -- did a google search, but found some very confusing posts to do with static-libs. systemd *is* udev; they are the same package. Uninstall the Gentoo packaging of udev (which basically strips systemd), install systemd, and it includes the official udev. ahhh! I see and it looks like I still don't have to use it as my init till I figure all of it out, so that will at least be a good thing. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage elog messages about historical symlinks
On 24/07/2013 19:22, Mick wrote: I am getting messages like the one below from portage every now and then. Especially, about /var/run, but in this case about a different directory: * Messages for package dev-libs/klibc-1.5.20: * One or more symlinks to directories have been preserved in order to * ensure that files installed via these symlinks remain accessible. This * indicates that the mentioned symlink(s) may be obsolete remnants of an * old install, and it may be appropriate to replace a given symlink with * the directory that it points to. * * /usr/lib/klibc/include/asm * Perhaps I am having a senior moment, but I am not clear what I should do despite the friendly message. This is the symlink in question: ls -la /usr/lib/klibc/include/asm lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Nov 8 2008 /usr/lib/klibc/include/asm - asm-x86 How am I supposed to *replace* it with the directory that it points to? I would take it to mean that /usr/lib/klibc/include/asm should be a directory and contain the files that are currently residing in the asm-x86 directory. For example: # rm asm # mkdir asm # mv -- asm-x86/* asm/ # rmdir asm-x86 --Kerin
Re: [gentoo-user] Experiences with amd richland or trinity APUs?
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:11:16PM +0200, Willie WY Wong wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:09:12AM +0800, Penguin Lover tlze squawked: The actual models are A8 (trinity, RD 7560D GPU) and A10 (richland RD 8570D GPU), or a plain AthlonIIx4 (no GPU). My question is: Are these GPUs supported properly under linux? Does anyone have experiences with them? The ati-drivers is supported my A10.（ ati-drivers 支持我的A10 ） Nothing special attention to the place you want. （ 没什么要特别要注意的地方。） Uh, let me do a little bit of community service. tlze meant to write: The ati-drivers supports my A10, and there's nothing you should pay special attention to: it should just work. Willie Google translate is _not_ your friend. In fact, Google is _not_ your friend. Just a data whore selling your info to the highest bidder. Chinese requires a bit of 'radical' comprehension, to understand. 再见 -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Fresh install and problem with net.* init.d script
On 24/07/2013 22:18, Steven J. Long wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: Peace and hugz OK? Definitely :-) POSIX 4: Programming for the Real World (Gallmeister, 1995) UNIX Network Programming vol 2: Interprocess Communications (Stevens, 1999) iirc the first is on safari-online; you can download code from the second here: http://www.kohala.com/start/unpv22e/unpv22e.html More here: https://foss.aueb.gr/posix/ If you've not had the pleasure of W Richard Stevens' writing, you have a treat in-store. I'd guess you guys have at least read some of the TCP/Illustrated series, though. Regards, steveL. I'll look into those, but do take note those books are 14 and 18 years old - that's eternity in our world. Basics never change, details do. Some features are here for the long haul and I doubt anything will really change them: pipes, named pipes, unix sockets and things of that ilk. The real bugbear with IPC is people reinventing the wheel over and over and over to do simple messaging - writing little daemons that do very little except listen for a small number of messages from localhost and react to them. Use a generic message bus for that! It fits nicely in the grand Unix tradition of do one job and do it well, and few apps have passing messages around as their core function. Hand it off to the system, that's what it's there for. One day I might well do an audit of a typical server base system and count all the apps that have a hidden roll-your-own message process in place. I'm certain the results will be scary. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On 24/07/2013 22:15, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: On Wed, Jul 24 2013, Willie WY Wong wrote: Speaking as a mathematician (and A. Gottlieb will agree with me), I would be rather annoyed that they chose (if this is not a misquote from the original proposed documentation) to use '/' for set difference instead of '\' as it is supposed to be. I was also surprised to see `/'. A part of me was going to send about quotient groups (the normal usage of '/') but I managed to refrain myself. However, now that willie has opened the door ... / is normally used for quotients. For example, if we take the group Z of integers under addition and the subgroup 2Z of the even integers, then Z / 2Z is the quotient that results from taking Z and identifying all the elements of 2Z. So in Z / 2Z, all the even integers are zero and hence all odd integers are equivalent (since they differ by even integers, which are zero). Thus the quotient has only 2 elements and is the familiar group Z2, the integers mod 2. The above can be generalized. allan In portage's defense, the symbol used is not really mathematical notation, it's an operator used in code, and only in code. We do this lots: * is multiplication ^ is exponentiation % is modulus (sometimes just mod) and several more, all driven by the lack of appropriate symbols on early ASCII keyboards (and the majority of current keyboards...) I would probably have selected / as well if I were the implementer, but that's because I heavily resist using backslash for anything other than escapes. My brain usually will not let me go against this one... You mathematician chaps could probably resolve this one nicely for yourselves by treating it as just another mangle by Applied Mathematicians == joke :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On Wed, Jul 24 2013, Alan McKinnon wrote: You mathematician chaps could probably resolve this one nicely for yourselves by treating it as just another mangle by Applied Mathematicians == joke :-) Careful what you joke about. The New York University comp sci dept (my home) is part the Courant Institute that also contains the very highly regarded NYU math department, one that *emphasizes* applied math. :-) allan
Re: [gentoo-user] Portage 2.2
On 24/07/2013 23:21, gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: On Wed, Jul 24 2013, Alan McKinnon wrote: You mathematician chaps could probably resolve this one nicely for yourselves by treating it as just another mangle by Applied Mathematicians == joke :-) Careful what you joke about. The New York University comp sci dept (my home) is part the Courant Institute that also contains the very highly regarded NYU math department, one that *emphasizes* applied math. :-) allan Oops :-) If I told you my closest colleague at work (who designs the algorithms for most of the code I maintain) has a masters in pure Mathematics - would we then at least be even? -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Experiences with amd richland or trinity APUs?
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 4:44 AM, Bruce Hill da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:11:16PM +0200, Willie WY Wong wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:09:12AM +0800, Penguin Lover tlze squawked: The actual models are A8 (trinity, RD 7560D GPU) and A10 (richland RD 8570D GPU), or a plain AthlonIIx4 (no GPU). My question is: Are these GPUs supported properly under linux? Does anyone have experiences with them? The ati-drivers is supported my A10.（ ati-drivers 支持我的A10 ） Nothing special attention to the place you want. （ 没什么要特别要注意的地方。） Uh, let me do a little bit of community service. tlze meant to write: The ati-drivers supports my A10, and there's nothing you should pay special attention to: it should just work. Willie Google translate is _not_ your friend. In fact, Google is _not_ your friend. Just a data whore selling your info to the highest bidder. Chinese requires a bit of 'radical' comprehension, to understand. 再见 -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting thanks! All reply. I love Gentoo, I hide lists a few years. Sorry for my bad English.
Re: [gentoo-user] Experiences with amd richland or trinity APUs?
I've been running a mobile A8 quad core with a 6000 series GPU for about a year under 3.x kernels and open source x.org drivers. Not a hiccup. On Jul 22, 2013 3:57 PM, Alexander Puchmayr alexander.puchm...@linznet.at wrote: Hi there, I'm thinking of bying a quad-core cpu, preferably an amd cpu because they are significantly cheaper than intel ones. The actual models are A8 (trinity, RD 7560D GPU) and A10 (richland RD 8570D GPU), or a plain AthlonIIx4 (no GPU). My question is: Are these GPUs supported properly under linux? Does anyone have experiences with them? Thanks, Alex
Re: [gentoo-user] QEMU setup questions
Thanks to all who replied. sys-firmware/seabios needed the binary flag and sys-firmware/ipxe needed the qemu and vmware flags. It's starting now, and most of my problems are solved. I still have permission problems as a regular user with qemu-kvm, but qemu-system-i386 works. Root can start qemu-kvm. modprobe kvm-intel from a root xterm, followed by qemu-kvm blahblahblah from a regular user (i.e. waltdnes) fails... Could not access KVM kernel module: Permission denied failed to initialize KVM: Permission denied Before anybody asks... # grep kvm /etc/group kvm:x:78:waltdnes,user2 One more question... I rebuilt qemu with sdl enabled, and now have the Gentoo install ISO booting up in a window via sdl with... qemu-system-i386 -cpu qemu32 -m 3072 -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d But the screen refreshes are somewhat slow. I'd prefer to do it with vnc. What is the way to boot up and connect with vnc now? Starting with... qemu-system-i386 -vnc :0 -cpu qemu32 -m 3072 -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d ...gives no output at all. ps -ef shows the qemu process is present. I've installed tightvnc, but documentation is almost non-existant. Google turns up tons of download sites and instructions for Windows, complete with screen captures of cutsie-wootsie dialogue windows. I need just 2 things please... 1) What vnc parameters to enter into the qemu commandline? 2) What vncviewer or vncconnect parameters do I use to get to the qemu session? I just had a scary thought... the vnc help mentions connecting to the the client display. But the install cd boots up to a text console. Please don't tell me that tightvnc can't connect to a plain text console. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] QEMU setup questions
On 25/07/2013 04:24, Walter Dnes wrote: Thanks to all who replied. sys-firmware/seabios needed the binary flag and sys-firmware/ipxe needed the qemu and vmware flags. It's starting now, and most of my problems are solved. I still have permission problems as a regular user with qemu-kvm, but qemu-system-i386 works. Root can start qemu-kvm. modprobe kvm-intel from a root xterm, followed by qemu-kvm blahblahblah from a regular user (i.e. waltdnes) fails... Could not access KVM kernel module: Permission denied failed to initialize KVM: Permission denied Before anybody asks... # grep kvm /etc/group kvm:x:78:waltdnes,user2 1) What are the permissions of the device node mentioned in my previous response? 2) Does the groups command show that you're in the group right now? One more question... I rebuilt qemu with sdl enabled, and now have the Gentoo install ISO booting up in a window via sdl with... qemu-system-i386 -cpu qemu32 -m 3072 -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d But the screen refreshes are somewhat slow. I'd prefer to do it with vnc. What is the way to boot up and connect with vnc now? Starting with... qemu-system-i386 -vnc :0 -cpu qemu32 -m 3072 -hda sda.raw -cdrom installx86.iso -boot d ...gives no output at all. ps -ef shows the qemu process is present. Of course. You've asked it to couple the display with its embedded VNC server. You'll need to connect with a VNC client to see it. I've installed tightvnc, but documentation is almost non-existant. Google turns up tons of download sites and instructions for Windows, complete with screen captures of cutsie-wootsie dialogue windows. I need just 2 things please... 1) What vnc parameters to enter into the qemu commandline? The parameters you used look fine. Display :0 should translate to TCP port 5900, meaning that qemu should be listening on port 5900. You can check with netstat or ss. 2) What vncviewer or vncconnect parameters do I use to get to the qemu session? Assuming both server and client are run locally, connecting to either localhost:0 or localhost:5900 should work. I just had a scary thought... the vnc help mentions connecting to the the client display. But the install cd boots up to a text console. Please don't tell me that tightvnc can't connect to a plain text console. It can. --Kerin
