[gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon at gmail.com writes: On 06/08/2015 11:13, Felix Miata wrote: Gentoo is not supposed to be easy, but if you'd just followed the handbook you would have got what you wanted. Choosing non-defaults breaks the flow, especially when a branch explanation ends before an answer emerges. It probably would have been easy if only the first 3 or 4 Distrowatch columns existed and it had an empty systemd row. I think the Handbook is getting better and better. However the systemd-openrc choice is something that needs to be explained early in the handbook from a neutral prospective. Let's face it, lots of folks become interested in Gentoo, often when they hear that you do not have to run systemd. I'm not saying push one over the other, but explain and delineate that choice *early* in the handbook. WE owe the larger linux community that wisdom:: that gentoo has made peace with systemd and openrc:: imho. Forget everything Distrowatch says about Gentoo. It is written by Distrowatch people trying to fit Gentoo into the Distrowatch mould, and it does not work. Distrowatch is a fact of life. On the gentoo home page, maybe WE need to explain this concept and articulate the wisdom and peace that gentoo imparts on it's community:: albeit at the price/cost of investing time learning about linux and particularly gentoo. WE owe the larger linux community, clearly explained concepts on the homepage, imho. Some folks complain about all the config choices that have to be made when setting up a Gentoo system initially. Well, these folks entirely miss the whole point of Gentoo - it is highly configurable, which means choices. These choices have to be made and indicated at some point, at the point to do that is right at the beginning, right in the middle of the install process. It's how the distro works. Agreed. But we can (maybe eventually) offer more frequent live versions of gentoo, in a canned dvd(w/persistence) so that folks can test-drive gentoo, add a few packages and get comfortable before undertaking that long and winding manual install road? All it would take is spinning out more livedvd/sticks imho. Or, We could also point them to existing gentoo derivatives for a test-drive:: pentoo, lilblue, sabayon, calculate etc etc first, if we are not going to roll more frequent live* images? Maybe GRS (blueness) offers a bit more of a quickie? I get the feeling from reading your posts that you are trying to understand Gentoo by comparing it to a binary distro to find common ground. That won't help, you run out of similarities very quickly. Gentoo has to be understood on it's own terms, not in terms of how it compares to say Fedora Kids always compare new foods to chocolate; that's just how it is. Delineating why gentoo is superior (and it is when you are mature enough) is what we do not do formally. Somebody (like Alan or Neil) really should write up article on this, put it on the home page and call it 'The Wisdom and Wonders of Gentoo' or some such marketing hyperbole. If for no other reason, so we do not have to continue with this 'educational intro to gentoo' on gentoo-user. Of coarse the 'old farts' are right about what they spew here on the list. But, the simple, fundamental question is this:: do we really want to be a collective of intellectual smoots, or do we want a kinder and gentler reception for noobs to dabble in? Personally, I do not play basketball with folks my age:: it's a bummer to watch them struggle. I do play full-court basketball, with college age kids and it is the most wonderful joy a former athlete can have. That glistening of the youthful minds is great company for old farts. You guys really want to continue to frustrate these kids? Most of them have already had the 'shit kick out of them' intellectually in a globalize world; why do you think they seek refuge in gentoo? Let's jazz up our gentoo-sex-appeal on the home page so we ALL look good. Moose anyone? Just a few random thoughts:: no intentions of scratching loose any dandruff. peace, James
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On 06/08/2015 20:32, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 19:17:56 +0100, Mick wrote: Which clearly says ccache not found. That implies you have added ccache to FEATURES but not installed the ccache package. I know, I did the same thing last week. Probably O/T but why do you need ccache, unless you are rebuilding packages on a regular basis, e.g. for testing? I only have it enabled for LibreOffice, which is a regular victim of @preserved-rebuild causing the same version to be rebuilt. What sort of improvements do you get? libreoffice here takes about 1h30 to build, give or take 10 mins or so. Doesn't seem worth the extra hassle of ccache for an hour and a half. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:17 PM, James` wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Jc García jyo.garcia at gmail.com writes: I'm not saying push one over the other, but explain and delineate that choice *early* in the handbook. WE owe the larger linux community that wisdom:: that gentoo has made peace with systemd and openrc:: imho. OpenRC is there on the stage3, systemd isn't, if you don't think about systemd you get an OpenRC installation, I think it would confuse more people to talk about choosing init system(especially noobs) right at the beginning of the handbook. I think during the installation (before the reboot) lots of software can be installed or removed. So that means that systemd and companion packages are part of the installation. And systemd is a choice during the profile selection part of an installation. ++ I think the systemd install instructions really need to be folded into the main handbook. Otherwise you end up doing the two in parallel. I just went through the btrfs raid1 install both with openrc and systemd and found all of three lines where anything is done differently (though I didn't get into setting up network, logging, enabling services, etc). Just picking a profile is really 90% of it. Long-term there is discussion of removing sysvinit+openrc from the stage3 and just making installing it a step like installing your favorite logger or cron or MTA implementation. There is really only one blocker I'm aware of for doing this - which is fixing shell scripts which reference a deprecated functions.sh that was part of openrc previously (it has nothing to do with openrc functionally). Installing sysvinit and openrc would be really simple and fast (certainly faster than systemd), and it could of course be pulled in by a profile just as systemd is. Or maybe it stays in the stage3 but is pulled in as a default for a virtual, so that it gets depcleaned after installing systemd. There wouldn't be any blockers either way, so anybody who wants both installed could still do so. Gentoo is about choice, and we try to make most of our decisions pragmatically. Defaults are just defaults, and where it is reasonable we try not to even have defaults. In fact, if you're running a chroot or container install, you might not want any init implementation installed (though both systemd and openrc are being designed to run inside containers if desired). -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT]: Optimal formatting a SDcard (64GB) with partions of diffent sizes and filesystems?
On 06/08/2015 18:18, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, for my tablet PC I used a used 32GB FAT32 formatted SDcard. The formatting was already done by the manufacturer. Then I screwed it up and had to do the partioning and formatting myself again. No big deal, I thought -- and was wrong. Yes, the thing I got could be read and written. But it was DAMN slow in comparison to the original formatting. I googled and found a description, which described exactly, what I wanted: An optimal formatting for one big FAT32 partion. I did it again ;) and: TADA! The speed was back. LINK:http://zero1-st.blogspot.de/2012/05/formatting-fat32-volumes-larger-than.html Now I need the something identical but explained in a way that it can be successfully applied to any partion layout and any SDcard size. Currently the new SDcard has 64GB (yes, the tablet eats that size well :) and needs at least two partions: One FAT32 and one ext4. May be that I need a different layout later. To what aspect and logic do I have to keep my eyes on, when it comes partioning/formatting any SDcard size with any partion layout and any filesystem? As I understand it, the most critical thing is to keep the FS block size aligned with the native block alignment of the device. Example: Using 4k blocks that start at 1k is obviously going to be a problem - writing one block of data to the FS will always involve writing two blocks to the physical device -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Installing BTRFS on MBR with OpenRC
Am 2015-08-06 um 13:18 schrieb Rich Freeman: It isn't necessarily essential, but btrfs fi df /mnt/gentoo will show you that before the balance there are still some chunks in single mode - it seems like mkfs creates the first device and adds the second one, leaving some residual non-RAID chunks (that hopefully will never have data written to them). The balance of an empty filesystem is really fast and completely converts it to raid1, so I figured it would be cleaner to do it this way. I have no idea what happens if those single chunks remain and you degrade the array. This reminded me of doing a balance-run on the 2-hdd btrfs-RAID1 in my desktop machine. Runs now. The machine runs and boots on btrfs only (as well as my 2 thinkpads), I know that btrfs still isn't as well tested as extX or XFS, for example ... but I am quite happy so far (doing backups is essential for everyone, right?) - Regarding the topic of this thread ... I am off-topic here ;-) sorry - GPT on a single SSD (containing / and the OS, the hdds hold data), and systemd ... I run 2 systems (desktop and one laptop) with 2 distros installed in parallel, Fedora and Gentoo, and btrfs helps to share storage nicely here. It even works to share the EFI-boot-partition etc ... the only issue is that having multiple kernels for each distro frequently leads to manually remove one older kernel to be able to add another - Yes, that partition was sized too small and isn't so easy to grow right now. No big problem. As I mentioned in another btrfs-related thread here a few months ago I really appreciate the move from partitions/LVM/RAID/filesystems to this new concept where all these layers are somehow integrated and interacting. Sorry for OT-ing here, regards, Stefan
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Am 06.08.2015 um 22:01 schrieb Rich Freeman: You're defining really systemd-free in the same sense that the FSF defines a really free distro (they think Debian FOSS-only isn't good enough). Sticking with the base profile should get you an experience about the same as what you'd have gotten 4 years ago before anybody heard of systemd, and going as far as you suggestion may cause problems if you use software that has been subsequently merged into systemd, but which is still available standalone (think udev/etc). But, to each their own, that is the Gentoo way. Just don't file any bugs if something breaks purely as a result of doing the steps above. You're totally wrong. USE=-systemd tells portage not to build and install optional systemd features, dependencies etc. Ebuilds that need systemd as a hard dependency like GNOME are not affected by this. The INSTALL_MASK just tells portage to not install systemd related files which are not necessary and not used on none-systemd systems like those unit files or whatever they are called which are unfortunately installed by several ebuilds along with the OpenRC init scripts. So, yes, I will file any bugs if something breaks, because systemd is supposed to be optional on Gentoo. And, no, I won't install any package which is merged into systemd. As you mentioned udev, what do you need udev for if you don't use systemd? Just install eudev. Works perfectly without any systemd dependency. And, yes, I don't like systemd - in fact I hate it - because it's just broken by design. But discussing with Poettering and his fanboys is pointless since they aren't able to take criticism. There are a lot of other reasons, too. And I really don't want to have any part of this Poetterix crap like systemd, pulseaudio etc. on my system. So I take it as a compliment when you compare my definition of really systemd-free with the FSF's definition of a really free distro.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Heiko Baums li...@baums-on-web.de wrote: And, no, I won't install any package which is merged into systemd. As you mentioned udev, what do you need udev for if you don't use systemd? Just install eudev. Works perfectly without any systemd dependency. Like I said - if you want to go this route be prepared to tweak half your system to keep it working. Replacing udev with eudev is certainly possible, but probably not something I'd recommend for somebody trying out Gentoo for the first time. Most of the eudev developers would probably not recommend setting install masks and setting USE=-systemd either. And you're using udev all the same - there isn't much that was in udev before the systemd merge which isn't in eudev today. It seems a bit odd to object to a package on the sole basis of what source repository its maintainers are using. But, whatever floats your boat. So, yes, I will file any bugs if something breaks, because systemd is supposed to be optional on Gentoo. If a package declares a dependency against a package that installs something in /usr/lib/systemd, and it breaks because you masked that directory, then your bug is probably going to be marked invalid. But, if you enjoy making work for the bug wranglers I guess you can do your part to ensure that the position remains understaffed. I'm not talking about incorrect dependencies not aligned with upstream/etc. Those are often valid bugs, as are bugs asking for fixes to openrc scripts or systemd units even though openrc and systemd are optional on Gentoo. Maintainers aren't required to commit openrc scripts or systemd units, but they're certainly encouraged to do so when somebody provides them for an init system they use (or runit, or upstart, or whatever). (Fun piece of Gentoo trivia. Most Gentoo-derived systems don't run either openrc or systemd - they run upstart, despite it not even being in the main Gentoo repository. Go figure...) -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On 06/08/2015 18:34, James wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon at gmail.com writes: On 06/08/2015 11:13, Felix Miata wrote: Gentoo is not supposed to be easy, but if you'd just followed the handbook you would have got what you wanted. Choosing non-defaults breaks the flow, especially when a branch explanation ends before an answer emerges. It probably would have been easy if only the first 3 or 4 Distrowatch columns existed and it had an empty systemd row. I think the Handbook is getting better and better. However the systemd-openrc choice is something that needs to be explained early in the handbook from a neutral prospective. Let's face it, lots of folks become interested in Gentoo, often when they hear that you do not have to run systemd. I'm not saying push one over the other, but explain and delineate that choice *early* in the handbook. WE owe the larger linux community that wisdom:: that gentoo has made peace with systemd and openrc:: imho. systemd-openrc is just one more choice the user has to make, except that this one is interpreted as involving PID 1, in the minds of some this seems to invoke large amounts of $MAGIC. Where does it end? Shall we detail glibc/uclibc/musl? Firefox/Iceweasel? openoffice/libreoffice? udev/everything else? What you say above seems to my mind to raise systemd vs openrc to an artifical level of importance that it does not deserve. It's not like you can't emerge -C the one and emerge the other Forget everything Distrowatch says about Gentoo. It is written by Distrowatch people trying to fit Gentoo into the Distrowatch mould, and it does not work. Distrowatch is a fact of life. On the gentoo home page, maybe WE need to explain this concept and articulate the wisdom and peace that gentoo imparts on it's community:: albeit at the price/cost of investing time learning about linux and particularly gentoo. WE owe the larger linux community, clearly explained concepts on the homepage, imho. WE will not ever do anything. Who is this mythical we? Distrowatch's page on Gentoo will only change is someone gets in touch and has the change made. There is no we. Why don't you do it? Some folks complain about all the config choices that have to be made when setting up a Gentoo system initially. Well, these folks entirely miss the whole point of Gentoo - it is highly configurable, which means choices. These choices have to be made and indicated at some point, at the point to do that is right at the beginning, right in the middle of the install process. It's how the distro works. Agreed. But we can (maybe eventually) offer more frequent live versions of gentoo, in a canned dvd(w/persistence) so that folks can test-drive gentoo, add a few packages and get comfortable before undertaking that long and winding manual install road? All it would take is spinning out more livedvd/sticks imho. Or, We could also point them to existing gentoo derivatives for a test-drive:: pentoo, lilblue, sabayon, calculate etc etc first, if we are not going to roll more frequent live* images? Maybe GRS (blueness) offers a bit more of a quickie? There's that we again. If you want these things, set up an automated build system that produces and publishes them. If you stuff is any good and it gets traction, infra might be willing to take it onboard as something official I get the feeling from reading your posts that you are trying to understand Gentoo by comparing it to a binary distro to find common ground. That won't help, you run out of similarities very quickly. Gentoo has to be understood on it's own terms, not in terms of how it compares to say Fedora Kids always compare new foods to chocolate; that's just how it is. Delineating why gentoo is superior (and it is when you are mature enough) is what we do not do formally. Somebody (like Alan or Neil) really should write up article on this, put it on the home page and call it 'The Wisdom and Wonders of Gentoo' or some such marketing hyperbole. If for no other reason, so we do not have to continue with this 'educational intro to gentoo' on gentoo-user. Now that is something I could do, it's close to my heart :-) Neil might even be willing to edit out my more senior rambling moments :-) Of coarse the 'old farts' are right about what they spew here on the list. But, the simple, fundamental question is this:: do we really want to be a collective of intellectual smoots, or do we want a kinder and gentler reception for noobs to dabble in? Personally, I do not play basketball with folks my age:: it's a bummer to watch them struggle. I do play full-court basketball, with college age kids and it is the most wonderful joy a former athlete can have. That glistening of the youthful minds is great company for old farts. You guys really want to continue to frustrate these kids? Most of them have already had the 'shit kick out of them' intellectually in a globalize world; why
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Heiko Baums li...@baums-on-web.de wrote: Am 06.08.2015 um 18:59 schrieb Jc García: OpenRC is there on the stage3, systemd isn't, if you don't think about systemd you get an OpenRC installation, I think it would confuse more people to talk about choosing init system(especially noobs) right at the beginning of the handbook. To get a really systemd-free system you unfortunately need to do two additional steps: 1. Add USE=-systemd to your /etc/portage/make.conf 2. Add INSTALL_MASK=/lib/systemd /lib32/systemd /lib64/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib32/systemd /usr/lib64/systemd /etc/systemd to your /etc/portage/make.conf You're defining really systemd-free in the same sense that the FSF defines a really free distro (they think Debian FOSS-only isn't good enough). Sticking with the base profile should get you an experience about the same as what you'd have gotten 4 years ago before anybody heard of systemd, and going as far as you suggestion may cause problems if you use software that has been subsequently merged into systemd, but which is still available standalone (think udev/etc). But, to each their own, that is the Gentoo way. Just don't file any bugs if something breaks purely as a result of doing the steps above. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 22:09:49 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: I think the Handbook is getting better and better. However the systemd-openrc choice is something that needs to be explained early in the handbook from a neutral prospective. Let's face it, lots of folks become interested in Gentoo, often when they hear that you do not have to run systemd. I'm not saying push one over the other, but explain and delineate that choice *early* in the handbook. WE owe the larger linux community that wisdom:: that gentoo has made peace with systemd and openrc:: imho. systemd-openrc is just one more choice the user has to make, except that this one is interpreted as involving PID 1, in the minds of some this seems to invoke large amounts of $MAGIC. The handbook covers choices like bootloader, system logger, cron and several more, but the systemd instructions are not part of the handbook. That choice is mentioned, so it should be explained in the handbook, not an external reference. Where does it end? In fire! Kids always compare new foods to chocolate; that's just how it is. Delineating why gentoo is superior (and it is when you are mature enough) is what we do not do formally. Somebody (like Alan or Neil) really should write up article on this, put it on the home page and call it 'The Wisdom and Wonders of Gentoo' or some such marketing hyperbole. If for no other reason, so we do not have to continue with this 'educational intro to gentoo' on gentoo-user. Now that is something I could do, it's close to my heart :-) Neil might even be willing to edit out my more senior rambling moments :-) If I could find the time :P -- Neil Bothwick If you can't be kind, be vague. pgpaDh5CvUyaF.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior [FIXED]
On 06/08/2015 20:28, J. Roeleveld wrote: On Thursday, August 06, 2015 02:59:09 PM Mick wrote: On Wednesday 05 Aug 2015 22:47:43 Alan McKinnon wrote: On 05/08/2015 23:12, J. Roeleveld wrote: On Wednesday, August 05, 2015 06:20:17 PM Mick wrote: On Wednesday 05 Aug 2015 11:47:58 Alan McKinnon wrote: Much of what makes programming work has been dumbed down in recent years so that employable persons without imagination[1] can have jobs and do something useful. I'm reminded of an old saw about PHP: The nice thing about php is it let's everyone and their dog write code. The bad thing about php is that they do. Your imagination[1] footnote didn't make it to the list. I thought for a minute that you used some php parser ... :p It's not that old for an old saying. I can't find a reference to that saying older then august 2014 using Google. And all those are links to the same email written by our own Alan McKinnon Ah! That's because it was I who made it up years ago and have told it to lots of people. About a year ago is obviously the first time I wrote it down :-) Run the same search for perl - it's probably more appropriate than php and may find older samples of the same ol' saying. Nope, can't find a single hit with either line. Also would surprise me, as the largest part of the massive amount of bad code (mostly copy/pasted from each other) arrived after PHP appeared. It works just as well for php, perl, basic, VB, J2EE frameworks and any draggy-droppy workflow thing that claims to produce runnable code. It seems that only C is immune, probably because of the high barrier to entry that must be climbed before writing something useful (and hello world is not useful :-) ) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 21:53:25 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: I only have it enabled for LibreOffice, which is a regular victim of @preserved-rebuild causing the same version to be rebuilt. What sort of improvements do you get? libreoffice here takes about 1h30 to build, give or take 10 mins or so. Doesn't seem worth the extra hassle of ccache for an hour and a half. It varies, but it can more than halve the time taken. Well worth the minute or two it took to set it up to happen automatically. % cat /etc/portage/env/ccache.conf FEATURES=ccache % cat /etc/portage/package.env/libreoffice app-office/libreoffice ccache.conf disk-tmpdir.conf And don't forget to emerge ccache ;-) For completeness, LO also uses and on disk TMPDIR because my tmpfs /tmp isn't big enough, so % cat /etc/portage/env/disk-tmpdir.conf PORTAGE_TMPDIR=/mnt/scratch -- Neil Bothwick Consciousness: that annoying time between naps. pgpyvb_Xjw309.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thursday 06 Aug 2015 22:00:35 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 21:53:25 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: I only have it enabled for LibreOffice, which is a regular victim of @preserved-rebuild causing the same version to be rebuilt. What sort of improvements do you get? libreoffice here takes about 1h30 to build, give or take 10 mins or so. Doesn't seem worth the extra hassle of ccache for an hour and a half. It varies, but it can more than halve the time taken. Well worth the minute or two it took to set it up to happen automatically. % cat /etc/portage/env/ccache.conf FEATURES=ccache % cat /etc/portage/package.env/libreoffice app-office/libreoffice ccache.conf disk-tmpdir.conf And don't forget to emerge ccache ;-) For completeness, LO also uses and on disk TMPDIR because my tmpfs /tmp isn't big enough, so % cat /etc/portage/env/disk-tmpdir.conf PORTAGE_TMPDIR=/mnt/scratch Hmm ... may be I should re-enable it to see if I notice the difference on an old PC I have. I took it off because failed ebuilds would continue to fail - until I remembered to delete the ccache files. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Diagnosing file corruption
On 6 August 2015 at 01:34, Bryan Gardiner b...@khumba.net wrote: Hello list, This is the disk: *-disk description: ATA Disk product: ST1000LM024 HN-M vendor: Seagate physical id: 0.0.0 bus info: scsi@4:0.0.0 logical name: /dev/sda version: 0001 size: 931GiB (1TB) capabilities: gpt-1.00 partitioned partitioned:gpt configuration: ansiversion=5 guid=---- sectorsize=4096 Thanks for any help you can provide, Bryan Complex question. Simple answer... Spinrite :-) -- All the best, Robert
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 09:17:45 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: On Wednesday 05 August 2015 17:52:28 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 16:26:02 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: Oh, and do you know why the handbook now says to include a tiny grub partition before the boot partition, even on an MBR system? If you use GPT on a motherboard with BIOS, you need that partition. It's on UEFI systems that you don't need it. Yes, I know that. It's why I asked. I see what you're saying now, they are recommending it even if you don't use GPT, using a DOS partition table instead? I don't see the sense in that because you cannot set the appropriate partition type anyway with a DOS partition table? I suppose it could make switching to GPT at a later date less painful. -- Neil Bothwick BBS: (n.) a system for connecting computers and exchanging gossip, facts, and uninformed speculation under false names. pgpCNVPRXN97x.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Installing BTRFS on MBR with OpenRC
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Peter Humphrey wrote: First, btrfs balance. I had no idea that was needed, so of course I didn't include it in my attempts. Could that be why, on booting, the kernel couldn't mount the file system? I don't think that balancing an empty btrfs filesystem is necessary. It should have no effect at this point and would not affect the kernel's ability to mount the btrfs volume. Second, --xattrs on the tarball extraction. I haven't seen this recommended before, and I wonder what extra attributes are needed for btrfs. This is part of the normal installation procedure and is not specific to btrfs. See [1]. For all I know this has always been part of the installation. Third, why do you do your kernel compiling in /var/tmp/linux? It seems like extra work and I can't see a reason for it. The kernel developers recommend to __never__ compile the kernel as root. You never know when something like `rm -rf /` might creep into the Makefile ;) The portage unpacked kernel sources belong to root:root so Rich's method compiles them in /var/tmp/linux which can be done as the local user. Finally, can I assume that your procedure would work just as well installing into, say, /dev/sd[ab]4? Yep, but as stated by Rich there isn't much to a btrfs raid 1 install aside from mkfs.btrfs, building btrfs support into the kernel, the slightly different fstab entry, and using an initramfs (dracut makes it easy). I do recommend that you try it in a virtual machine first. With an initramfs it worked out of the box for me but I wasn't able to get it to work with just the kernel command line. [1]: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation#Unpacking_the_stage_tarball
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Neil Bothwick composed on 2015-08-06 08:33 (UTC+0100): I can think of no good reason to start with GRUB 0.97it. I have hundreds of installations. Grub is simple and works. I'm not into breaking what works. Goal #2 is to get through that first pass without any of systemd being installed. Then just follow the handbook. It appears you have read neither the handbook nor the recent posts to your threads fully or you would know that systemd is not the default and requires some extra steps to install. I don't remember the handbook saying I was supposed to memorize the whole thing before going back to the beginning and actually trying to install. If it did I would have been done before trying to start. I don't have an eidetic memory. I forget, a lot. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/About and the following several pages made the process look like it shouldn't be very difficult. If they were the only pages I knew or read, maybe it would have been easy, but that's not what happened. Choosing options rather accepting defaults is not pretty easy, at least for me who installed Gentoo only once previously, more than 4 years ago. Gentoo is not supposed to be easy, but if you'd just followed the handbook you would have got what you wanted. Choosing non-defaults breaks the flow, especially when a branch explanation ends before an answer emerges. It probably would have been easy if only the first 3 or 4 Distrowatch columns existed and it had an empty systemd row. I haven't been able to reconcile apparent choices the older columns imply with Gentoo's instructions and mirror content. You understand how Gentoo version selection works. 4 days later and I'm apparently still a long way off from getting it, or whether it even offers any such thing. The swarm of good help I got here early on induced me to keep trying when I was really too exhausted to focus. I need to table it until some time when I'm mentally stronger, and less distracted. Dogged persistence isn't a positive attribute in every context. Sleep gets short changed, and failure snowballs. Neil Bothwick composed on 2015-08-06 09:10 (UTC+0100): On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 03:59:44 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: 1-Distrowatch is what lead me to believe I could do something I wished to do. Is it DistroWatch that led you to believe that what you wanted wasn't the default to start with? Yes. e.g. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Base discusses use of mirrorselect, before it directs to start chroot. In the context of a non-Gentoo boot (as offered in the alternative boot instructions) to get to stage 4, how exactly is mirrorselect to be found? Mirrorselect is optional, just pick a mrror based on geographical location. Done. Re progress: I'm at the point of running emerge --ask sys-kernel/gentoo-sources, but it quits if I say no, and fails emerging sys-devel/bc-1.06.95-r1 (emake AR=$(tc-getAR)) if I say yes. :-( http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/G/config.txt Which clearly says ccache not found. That implies you have added ccache to FEATURES but not installed the ccache package. I know, I did the same thing last week. An addition was done somewhere around a decade ago, the last time I compiled anything from source. Before chrooting, I copied .bashrc from my template stash into the target /root. It has 'export CC=ccache gcc' in it. I commented it out, rebooted, rechrooted and tried again. bc still failed so I tried emerging ccache. That too failed. Lightbulb. Comment ccache out of chroot host too, restart. emerge ccache succeeded. emerge --ask sys-kernel/gentoo-sources did too. I still need to better balance persistence with sleep. Bed now. TBC. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
[gentoo-user] Installing BTRFS on MBR with OpenRC
I've started a new thread rather than hijacking the other one. I've made several attempts at installing a btrfs system on what may be a too-old machine, and Grant Edwards and I asked Rich for help. On Wednesday 05 August 2015 13:55:09 Rich Freeman wrote: On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk wrote: On Wednesday 05 August 2015 10:43:28 Rich Freeman wrote: Just to humor you I'll include an OpenRC version of my raid1 btrfs install walkthrough. :) It has been a while since I've done one of those... Me too please, Rich. I still haven't got this six-year-old MBR box to boot raid1 btrfs. FWIW, my notes are at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VJlJyYLTZScta9a81xgKOIBjYsG3_VfxxmUSxG23 Uxg/edit?usp=sharing Impressive, Rich - thanks. You've given me several things to think about already. First, btrfs balance. I had no idea that was needed, so of course I didn't include it in my attempts. Could that be why, on booting, the kernel couldn't mount the file system? Second, --xattrs on the tarball extraction. I haven't seen this recommended before, and I wonder what extra attributes are needed for btrfs. Third, why do you do your kernel compiling in /var/tmp/linux? It seems like extra work and I can't see a reason for it. Finally, can I assume that your procedure would work just as well installing into, say, /dev/sd[ab]4? -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 05:13:42 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: Neil Bothwick composed on 2015-08-06 08:33 (UTC+0100): I can think of no good reason to start with GRUB 0.97. I have hundreds of installations. Grub is simple and works. I'm not into breaking what works. So you already have a bootloader? Then you can skip the whole bootloader section of the handbook and just add Gentoo to your existing menu. The handbook assumes that you need to install a bootloader, maybe it could be clearer about skipping that step if you already have one. Goal #2 is to get through that first pass without any of systemd being installed. Then just follow the handbook. It appears you have read neither the handbook nor the recent posts to your threads fully or you would know that systemd is not the default and requires some extra steps to install. I don't remember the handbook saying I was supposed to memorize the whole thing before going back to the beginning and actually trying to install. If it did I would have been done before trying to start. I don't have an eidetic memory. I forget, a lot. No one said you should read it all through first, although that is a good idea with any complex set of instructions. The handbook is supposed to be followed as you work through it. If you had read it first, you would know that systemd is not even covered as an alternative, apart from the pointer to another part of the wiki. Choosing options rather accepting defaults is not pretty easy, at least for me who installed Gentoo only once previously, more than 4 years ago. Gentoo is not supposed to be easy, but if you'd just followed the handbook you would have got what you wanted. Choosing non-defaults breaks the flow, especially when a branch explanation ends before an answer emerges. It probably would have been easy if only the first 3 or 4 Distrowatch columns existed and it had an empty systemd row. I haven't been able to reconcile apparent choices the older columns imply with Gentoo's instructions and mirror content. You understand how Gentoo version selection works. 4 days later and I'm apparently still a long way off from getting it, or whether it even offers any such thing. It doesn't. there are profiles that set parameters at a fixed point in time, but there is no Gentoo version, it is a rolling release distro. In fact, the whole concept of a version goes against how Gentoo works. Ubuntu has a version, 15.04, that comes with a specific set of packages chosen for you by the maintainers. With Gentoo you are the distro maintainer - the version you have includes whatever packages you choose, my versions are different. Which clearly says ccache not found. That implies you have added ccache to FEATURES but not installed the ccache package. I know, I did the same thing last week. An addition was done somewhere around a decade ago, the last time I compiled anything from source. Before chrooting, I copied .bashrc from my template stash into the target /root. It has 'export CC=ccache gcc' in it. I commented it out, rebooted, rechrooted and tried again. bc still failed so I tried emerging ccache. That too failed. Lightbulb. Comment ccache out of chroot host too, restart. emerge ccache succeeded. emerge --ask sys-kernel/gentoo-sources did too. I did more or less the same last week. Copied much of /etc/portage from old box to new one, tried to emerge something but ccache wasn't there. I still need to better balance persistence with sleep. Bed now. TBC. Yes, there's always that one more thing to try before you pack in for the night.. until your head hits the keyboard. -- Neil Bothwick Idaho - It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from there. pgp_qVjmXrIxL.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Installing BTRFS on MBR with OpenRC
On Thursday 06 August 2015 12:09:20 Jeremi Piotrowski wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2015, Peter Humphrey wrote: First, btrfs balance. I had no idea that was needed, so of course I didn't include it in my attempts. Could that be why, on booting, the kernel couldn't mount the file system? I don't think that balancing an empty btrfs filesystem is necessary. It should have no effect at this point and would not affect the kernel's ability to mount the btrfs volume. So that won't have been my problem then. Second, --xattrs on the tarball extraction. I haven't seen this recommended before, and I wonder what extra attributes are needed for btrfs. This is part of the normal installation procedure and is not specific to btrfs. See [1]. For all I know this has always been part of the installation. Well, as I said, I've never seen it before. Third, why do you do your kernel compiling in /var/tmp/linux? It seems like extra work and I can't see a reason for it. The kernel developers recommend to __never__ compile the kernel as root. You never know when something like `rm -rf /` might creep into the Makefile ;) Is that a real fear, or paranoia gone to extremes? :-) Finally, can I assume that your procedure would work just as well installing into, say, /dev/sd[ab]4? Yep, but as stated by Rich there isn't much to a btrfs raid 1 install aside from mkfs.btrfs, building btrfs support into the kernel, the slightly different fstab entry, and using an initramfs (dracut makes it easy). I've done all those things several times in the past week or two and come up against a kernel panic every time. I do recommend that you try it in a virtual machine first. Good idea. I'll do that. Restoring the original system has been a nuisance each time, what with md raid 1, lvm2 and so on. Creating a 500GB md device seems to take for ever. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On 06/08/2015 11:13, Felix Miata wrote: Gentoo is not supposed to be easy, but if you'd just followed the handbook you would have got what you wanted. Choosing non-defaults breaks the flow, especially when a branch explanation ends before an answer emerges. It probably would have been easy if only the first 3 or 4 Distrowatch columns existed and it had an empty systemd row. I haven't been able to reconcile apparent choices the older columns imply with Gentoo's instructions and mirror content. You understand how Gentoo version selection works. 4 days later and I'm apparently still a long way off from getting it, or whether it even offers any such thing. The swarm of good help I got here early on induced me to keep trying when I was really too exhausted to focus. I need to table it until some time when I'm mentally stronger, and less distracted. Dogged persistence isn't a positive attribute in every context. Sleep gets short changed, and failure snowballs. Forget everything Distrowatch says about Gentoo. It is written by Distrowatch people trying to fit Gentoo into the Distrowatch mould, and it does not work. Gentoo has versions of things, just like all distros. The difference is that other distros usually offer just one version of a given package, Gentoo can offer many. Some packages do only have one version in the tree, that's because the maintainers does it that way. Generally, you will install the highest version that matches your keywords (essential either stable or unstable). This gives you a setup somewhat vaguely analogous to stable and testing on Debian (or to stretch the parallel to snapping point, between latest RHEL and latest Fedora.) Some folks complain about all the config choices that have to be made when setting up a Gentoo system initially. Well, these folks entirely miss the whole point of Gentoo - it is highly configurable, which means choices. These choices have to be made and indicated at some point, at the point to do that is right at the beginning, right in the middle of the install process. It's how the distro works. I get the feeling from reading your posts that you are trying to understand Gentoo by comparing it to a binary distro to find common ground. That won't help, you run out of similarities very quickly. Gentoo has to be understood on it's own terms, not in terms of how it compares to say Fedora -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior
Am Tue, 4 Aug 2015 00:37:54 +0100 schrieb Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk: On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 08:50:24 -0500, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: Is this server-related? I have only simple workstations/laptops and I don't enable systemd-networkd at all. It seems that NetworkManager takes care of both wired and wireless without assistance (including dhcp). In latptops/workstations NetworkManager takes care of everything. However, I still enable systemd-networkd and systemd-resolved in my laptop and workstations. If enabled without any configuration, it just monitors the network interfaces and keeps them in the loop for the rest of the system to know about them from a central registry. It doesn't interfere with NetworkManager (or any other network management program for that matter). Alternatively, you can use systemd-networkd and do without NetworkManager altogether, avoiding a load of dependencies if you don't use GNOME. For typical wireless networks, wpa_gui is more than adequate for configuration. I concur, I switched to systemd-netword over two months ago. This replaced netctl on my desktop, and both netctl and NetworkManager on my laptop. My experience with it so far has been just as good as with netifrc and netctl. The only potential downside is that (at least AFAICT) there is no way to restart an individual network. HTH -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup pgppGWpWP2Iov.pgp Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT]: Optimal formatting a SDcard (64GB) with partions of diffent sizes and filesystems?
On Thursday 06 Aug 2015 21:17:29 Alan McKinnon wrote: On 06/08/2015 18:18, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, for my tablet PC I used a used 32GB FAT32 formatted SDcard. The formatting was already done by the manufacturer. Then I screwed it up and had to do the partioning and formatting myself again. No big deal, I thought -- and was wrong. Yes, the thing I got could be read and written. But it was DAMN slow in comparison to the original formatting. I googled and found a description, which described exactly, what I wanted: An optimal formatting for one big FAT32 partion. I did it again ;) and: TADA! The speed was back. LINK:http://zero1-st.blogspot.de/2012/05/formatting-fat32-volumes-larger- than.html Now I need the something identical but explained in a way that it can be successfully applied to any partion layout and any SDcard size. Currently the new SDcard has 64GB (yes, the tablet eats that size well :) and needs at least two partions: One FAT32 and one ext4. May be that I need a different layout later. To what aspect and logic do I have to keep my eyes on, when it comes partioning/formatting any SDcard size with any partion layout and any filesystem? As I understand it, the most critical thing is to keep the FS block size aligned with the native block alignment of the device. Example: Using 4k blocks that start at 1k is obviously going to be a problem - writing one block of data to the FS will always involve writing two blocks to the physical device I was wondering similar questions regarding a 32G flash card I have. Using fdisk to partition it the starting sector was automatically aligned with 2048 as it fdisk has been improved to deal with 4KB sector drives. However, formatting it with mkfs.vfat I was none the wise if I should use the '-s sectors-per-cluster' option or what to set it at. Furthermore, how can I read the current cluster size off the flash card? Is this appropriate? blockdev --getbsz /dev/sdb 4096 -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] boots, but not on first try
If I followed the kernel instructions page correctly, its E8400 Core2Duo wasn't in need of an initrd, and so did not get one. Main deviation from suggestions/defaults was enabling HPFS filesystems. Result was 6001056 byte 4.0.5. openSUSE Tumbleweed 4.0.5 kernel is virtually identical at 6004656, but there is also its 8712096 initrd. I reached the bottom of https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Bootloader and restarted host before clicking on link to next step. Before emerging recommendations in the Tools instructions page I took a timeout to emerge mc. The process involved 22 packages, more than I had any idea mc depended on, but I guess that's at least partly because the installation to that point was so very skeletal. I got ahead of things I suppose on the bootloader instructions, which include no example for Grub 0.97. I did emerge -s grub to identify the package name, then did 'emerge --ask sys-boot/grub-static' without first looking for any instructions, after which I somehow found https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB and its instruction saying 'sys-boot/grub:0'. Having already emerged sys-boot/grub-static without the :0 appendage, I punted instead of looking up meaning of :0, running 'emerge --ask sys-boot/grub-static:0'. That produced 4 beeps prior to emerge exit, which the previous emerge did not do. Next I set Grub up according to its man page: grub find /boot/grub/stage1; grub root (hd0,21); grub setup (hd0,21), then adjusted grub.conf. First boot try I used Gentoo's Grub 0.97 (grub.conf) chainloaded from openSUSE's Grub 0.97-194 (menu.lst). Kernel quickly panic'd. I recognized nothing on the screen to indicate why, though I had seen such things before, among them, not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown block(0,0). / filesystem is mkfs.ext4 created while running openSUSE kernel 3.12.44. Second try I used menu.lst. Fastest boot I've ever experienced! I then tweaked on grub.conf, but #3 try using it also panic'd (~@1.37), also producing no help I recognized. So now after some experimenting with cmdline arguments I'm on ~#10, headed into https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Finalizing , wondering why a Gentoo sample/prototype-based Grub stanza produces panic. Panicing grub.conf cmdline arguments: root=/dev/ram0 real_root=/dev/sda22 ipv6.disable=1 net.ifnames=0 splash=0 video=1024x768@60 3 Working grub.conf cmdline arguments: root=/dev/sda22 ipv6.disable=1 net.ifnames=0 splash=0 video=1024x768@60 3 Why is root=/dev/ram0 real_root= in the sample/prototype? 4.0.5's /boot/config* FWIW: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/G/config-4.0.5-gentoo-gx780.txt -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT]: Optimal formatting a SDcard (64GB) with partions of diffent sizes and filesystems?
On Thursday, August 06, 2015 6:18:59 PM meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, for my tablet PC I used a used 32GB FAT32 formatted SDcard. The formatting was already done by the manufacturer. Then I screwed it up and had to do the partioning and formatting myself again. No big deal, I thought -- and was wrong. Yes, the thing I got could be read and written. But it was DAMN slow in comparison to the original formatting. I googled and found a description, which described exactly, what I wanted: An optimal formatting for one big FAT32 partion. I did it again ;) and: TADA! The speed was back. LINK:http://zero1-st.blogspot.de/2012/05/formatting-fat32-volumes-larger-than.html Now I need the something identical but explained in a way that it can be successfully applied to any partion layout and any SDcard size. Currently the new SDcard has 64GB (yes, the tablet eats that size well :) and needs at least two partions: One FAT32 and one ext4. May be that I need a different layout later. To what aspect and logic do I have to keep my eyes on, when it comes partioning/formatting any SDcard size with any partion layout and any filesystem? Thank you very much in advance for any help! Best regards, Meino I wrote a long reply to this and it appears to have been swallowed by /dev/null. SD cards don't have 128K blocks. Except for the very early ones (standard capacity), they are divided in allocation units (AU) that are 1MB to 4MB for SDHC and even larger for SDXC. The only way to get that value is by reading a register in the card (so you can't do it in usermode on linux). The AUs are divided into Recording Units (RUs). The size of these can be deduced from the card speed class (that's the number inside the C on the label), and the card capacity. For class 2 and 4 if the card is less than 1GB it's 16KB, otherwise it's 32KB. For class 6 it is 64KB, and for class 10 it's 512KB. After an AU is erased you can write to any of the free RUs in any order in blocks of 512 bytes sequentially (the block size is configurable by the driver but 512 is the most common). But if you write to a nonfree RU then all non- free RU get copied to a new AU. So the performance hit depends on how many non-free RUs are in the AU when this happens. So to get the best performance you need to align the first FAT cluster on an AU boundary and that the RUs used by the reserved sectors after the FAT are free. This is not so easy from usermode because you can't get the AU size and you can't erase the AU to make sure reserved sectors are free. The Windows 7 and later format utility will do it if you don't partition the card. The next best thing is to align it to an RU which should be pretty easy. You could guess the AU size by writting blocks of RU size from the start of the card and timing it. Every time you hit the AU boundary there will be a longer delay. For more details see the SD specification (chapter 4.13). https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/pls/ They also have formatter tools for Windows and OSX. I tried the Windows version years ago but had problems with it (can't remember what). -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] boots, but not on first try
On Thursday, August 06, 2015 11:34:56 PM Felix Miata wrote: If I followed the kernel instructions page correctly, its E8400 Core2Duo wasn't in need of an initrd, and so did not get one. Main deviation from suggestions/defaults was enabling HPFS filesystems. Result was 6001056 byte 4.0.5. openSUSE Tumbleweed 4.0.5 kernel is virtually identical at 6004656, but there is also its 8712096 initrd. I reached the bottom of https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Bootloader and restarted host before clicking on link to next step. Before emerging recommendations in the Tools instructions page I took a timeout to emerge mc. The process involved 22 packages, more than I had any idea mc depended on, but I guess that's at least partly because the installation to that point was so very skeletal. I got ahead of things I suppose on the bootloader instructions, which include no example for Grub 0.97. I did emerge -s grub to identify the package name, then did 'emerge --ask sys-boot/grub-static' without first looking for any instructions, after which I somehow found https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB and its instruction saying 'sys-boot/grub:0'. Having already emerged sys-boot/grub-static without the :0 appendage, I punted instead of looking up meaning of :0, running 'emerge --ask sys-boot/grub-static:0'. That produced 4 beeps prior to emerge exit, which the previous emerge did not do. Next I set Grub up according to its man page: grub find /boot/grub/stage1; grub root (hd0,21); grub setup (hd0,21), then adjusted grub.conf. First boot try I used Gentoo's Grub 0.97 (grub.conf) chainloaded from openSUSE's Grub 0.97-194 (menu.lst). Kernel quickly panic'd. I recognized nothing on the screen to indicate why, though I had seen such things before, among them, not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown block(0,0). / filesystem is mkfs.ext4 created while running openSUSE kernel 3.12.44. Second try I used menu.lst. Fastest boot I've ever experienced! I then tweaked on grub.conf, but #3 try using it also panic'd (~@1.37), also producing no help I recognized. So now after some experimenting with cmdline arguments I'm on ~#10, headed into https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Finalizing , wondering why a Gentoo sample/prototype-based Grub stanza produces panic. Panicing grub.conf cmdline arguments: root=/dev/ram0 real_root=/dev/sda22 ipv6.disable=1 net.ifnames=0 splash=0 video=1024x768@60 3 Working grub.conf cmdline arguments: root=/dev/sda22 ipv6.disable=1 net.ifnames=0 splash=0 video=1024x768@60 3 Why is root=/dev/ram0 real_root= in the sample/prototype? That looks like the command line for the initrd. change it to root=/dev/sda22, if you have all the right modules for your HD built-in compiled it should boot. If you still get that panic boot from a live cd and configure the kernel with: make localmodconfig then: make menuconfig and check that the block device modules are built-in. finally, make make modules_install make install and reboot. 4.0.5's /boot/config* FWIW: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/G/config-4.0.5-gentoo-gx780.txt -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thursday, August 06, 2015 7:17:56 PM Mick wrote: On Thursday 06 Aug 2015 09:10:51 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 03:59:44 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: 1-Distrowatch is what lead me to believe I could do something I wished to do. Is it DistroWatch that led you to believe that what you wanted wasn't the default to start with? e.g. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Base discusses use of mirrorselect, before it directs to start chroot. In the context of a non-Gentoo boot (as offered in the alternative boot instructions) to get to stage 4, how exactly is mirrorselect to be found? Mirrorselect is optional, just pick a mrror based on geographical location. Re progress: I'm at the point of running emerge --ask sys-kernel/gentoo-sources, but it quits if I say no, and fails emerging sys-devel/bc-1.06.95-r1 (emake AR=$(tc-getAR)) if I say yes. :-( http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/G/config.txt Which clearly says ccache not found. That implies you have added ccache to FEATURES but not installed the ccache package. I know, I did the same thing last week. Probably O/T but why do you need ccache, unless you are rebuilding packages on a regular basis, e.g. for testing? I don't know how true this is, but I remember reading on some ccache faq that I can't find now that it should work even with new versions, as long as the files being compiled have not changed. In my tests, trying along with distcc it just slowed things down even with the same package. -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] Configuring hostapd
On Thursday, August 06, 2015 7:04:27 AM Cor Legemaat wrote: On Wed, 2015-08-05 at 01:00 -0400, Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Tuesday, August 04, 2015 8:18:43 PM Cor Legemaat wrote: On Sun, 2015-08-02 at 19:56 -0400, Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Sunday, August 02, 2015 11:12:07 PM Mick wrote: On Sunday 02 Aug 2015 22:04:41 Fernando Rodriguez wrote: On Sunday, August 02, 2015 1:29:50 PM Mick wrote: On Sunday 02 Aug 2015 01:50:21 Fernando Rodriguez wrote: Hello, After installing hostapd I can successfully connect to the AP, I can get DHCP from it, but I cannot access the network through it (neither lan or internet). This sounds like a (network) routing problem, rather than a hostapd issue. It looks like that, but if I stop iptables completely on the router all unicast traffic still works in the lan (both wired and through an external AP), so if I connect to the hostapd AP with iptables off, shouldn't I at the very least be able to ping the wireless interface on the router? I also tried with only the following rule which enables internet access to all wired workstations and through external AP: iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o enp0s8 -j MASQUERADE You should probably specify the local subnet, so that multicast packets are not sent out to the Internet, e.g.: iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o enp0s8 -s 192.168.1.0/24 ! -d 192.168.1.0/24 -j MASQUERADE (Change 192.168.1.0/24 to suit your LAN subnet) I'm not actually using that rule except as a minimal setup for troubleshooting this issue. My actual rules do specify the subnet. Also have you enabled ip forwarding in your kernel: sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 Yes, it is an existing router that works perfectly except for the hostapd AP. My current setup is as follows: Internet - Gentoo Router - Switch - AP Where AP is a wifi router with routing features disabled. Never had problems with it. Now I installed hostapd on Gentoo Router and everything else still works fine except when I connect to the hostapd AP. Even with only that minimal iptable rule or no rules at all. Thanks, Probably /dev/random depleated, try enable your hardware rng or sys- apps/haveged test with `cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail` Regards: Cor Thanks. II did get an error about depleted entropy at some point when starting hostapd but I went ahead and installed haveged and it still doesn't work. It doesn't even work when configured as an open AP. I checked the kernel config and I had VLAN support disabled. I've rebuilt it but can't reboot right now. Maybe it's required even though I'm not using VLANs? Is there an IP configured on the interface or the bridge of that interface? Yes Can you ping your gateway? No...I can ping it locally or remotely when I connect through the external AP but not through hostapd. If I'm correct dhcp uses broadcast but you need a valid gateway IP switchable on mac layer. Does it stay connected? Yes I have a problem with a link between hostapd and a mikrotik device on 802.11a where I needed to patch hostapd to get it to stay connected. But that should show in hostapd debug logs. Mine is still running on hostapd-2.3 because if I update and screw it my internet is broken, if that's your problem I will search for my notes and mail it. Tried hostapd-2.3 too, same thing. I will try it on a laptop with a more recent adapter tomorrow to rule that out. Regards: Cor -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT]: Optimal formatting a SDcard (64GB) with partions of diffent sizes and filesystems?
Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: I was wondering similar questions regarding a 32G flash card I have. Using fdisk to partition it the starting sector was automatically aligned with 2048 as it fdisk has been improved to deal with 4KB sector drives. However, formatting it with mkfs.vfat I was none the wise if I should use the '-s sectors-per-cluster' option or what to set it at. For the SD Cards of my Android devices I use mkfs.vfat -F32 -s64 This always gave me good performance. Furthermore, how can I read the current cluster size off the flash card? Is this appropriate? blockdev --getbsz /dev/sdb 4096 This gives you the physical blocksize of the device. If you wanna know the cluster size, that means the blocksize of your filesystem, you can use mtools. First configure /etc/mtools/mtools.conf and set a drive letter for your SD Card, e.g. drive c: file=/dev/sde1 then use minfo C: to query a lot of information about the filesystem. Beside some other infos you will get for example: sector size: 512 bytes cluster size: 8 sectors This means cluster size is 4096 Bytes. -- Regards wabe
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 22:08:16 +0100, Mick wrote: % cat /etc/portage/env/ccache.conf FEATURES=ccache % cat /etc/portage/package.env/libreoffice app-office/libreoffice ccache.conf disk-tmpdir.conf And don't forget to emerge ccache ;-) Hmm ... may be I should re-enable it to see if I notice the difference on an old PC I have. I took it off because failed ebuilds would continue to fail - until I remembered to delete the ccache files. I had bad experiences with it too, that's why I use it only where there's a real benefit and no history of breakage. I'd never enable it gobally again. I'm using ccache since many years and I can't remember any problems at least since the last 4 years. There were some issues in the past with openoffice and also with another package (can't remember which one) but that's a long time ago. -- Regards wabe
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT]: Optimal formatting a SDcard (64GB) with partions of diffent sizes and filesystems?
On Thursday, August 06, 2015 6:18:59 PM meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, for my tablet PC I used a used 32GB FAT32 formatted SDcard. The formatting was already done by the manufacturer. Then I screwed it up and had to do the partioning and formatting myself again. No big deal, I thought -- and was wrong. Yes, the thing I got could be read and written. But it was DAMN slow in comparison to the original formatting. I googled and found a description, which described exactly, what I wanted: An optimal formatting for one big FAT32 partion. I did it again ;) and: TADA! The speed was back. LINK:http://zero1-st.blogspot.de/2012/05/formatting-fat32-volumes-larger-than.html Now I need the something identical but explained in a way that it can be successfully applied to any partion layout and any SDcard size. Currently the new SDcard has 64GB (yes, the tablet eats that size well :) and needs at least two partions: One FAT32 and one ext4. May be that I need a different layout later. To what aspect and logic do I have to keep my eyes on, when it comes partioning/formatting any SDcard size with any partion layout and any filesystem? Thank you very much in advance for any help! Best regards, Meino I had to research this a few years back when writing a FAT32/SD driver[1] for an embedded project because all the available choices where too slow at writing for my requirements. It's been a while so excuse me if I got some details wrong. Most of the information you'll find around is wrong (it may still give you good results as in your case) but the only reliable source I found is the specification[2]. 128KB is not the magic number, SD cards (except for the very early ones or standard SD) are divided into Allocation Units (AU) that are between 1-4 MB for SDHC and even greater for SDHC. To get the actual value you need to read a register on the card (Linux may expose it on /sys, not sure), I did this work on Windows and I had to write a program (now lost) to guess it by writting at different boundaries and benchmarking. The Windows 7 and later formatting utility will align it properly though. The AUs are further divided into Recording Units (RU). These are determined by the speed class of the card (the number inside the C on the label) and the capacity. For class 2 and 4 it is 16kb if the card is under 1GB or 32K otherwise. For class 6 it is 64KB, and for class 10 it is 512KB. After an AU is erased you can write to all the RUs within it in any order but if you modify an RU all the used RUs on that AU need to be copied to a new AU. So to get the best performance you need to make sure that the first cluster is aligned to an AU boundary and erase the padding sectors before writing the FAT (I'm not sure if mkdosfs can do that last bit from userspace), otherwise everytime the FAT is updated all the padding sectors are copied needlessly. The next best thing is aligning it to an RU boundary which is easier to determine. 1. https://github.com/fernando-rodriguez/fat32lib/ 2. https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/pls/ -- Fernando Rodriguez
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 22:08:16 +0100, Mick wrote: % cat /etc/portage/env/ccache.conf FEATURES=ccache % cat /etc/portage/package.env/libreoffice app-office/libreoffice ccache.conf disk-tmpdir.conf And don't forget to emerge ccache ;-) Hmm ... may be I should re-enable it to see if I notice the difference on an old PC I have. I took it off because failed ebuilds would continue to fail - until I remembered to delete the ccache files. I had bad experiences with it too, that's why I use it only where there's a real benefit and no history of breakage. I'd never enable it gobally again. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 20: Synthetic natural gas pgpHBEtg7Su7A.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/08/2015 20:32, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 19:17:56 +0100, Mick wrote: Which clearly says ccache not found. That implies you have added ccache to FEATURES but not installed the ccache package. I know, I did the same thing last week. Probably O/T but why do you need ccache, unless you are rebuilding packages on a regular basis, e.g. for testing? I only have it enabled for LibreOffice, which is a regular victim of @preserved-rebuild causing the same version to be rebuilt. What sort of improvements do you get? libreoffice here takes about 1h30 to build, give or take 10 mins or so. Doesn't seem worth the extra hassle of ccache for an hour and a half. If you have a slow CPU but a fast disk (SSD), it can save you a lot of time. -- Regards wabe
[gentoo-user] Re: ipset needs to patch the kernel?
Meino.Cramer at gmx.de writes: I think the whole thing ipset consists of a kernel configuration and a user tool, which is available via emerge. Unfortunately, emerge still insists of patching the kernel, which is - according to your informations - unnecessary. oops. I guess I was unclear. Configuring the kernel and rebuilding it has the same effect as patching a version of the kernel before ipset became part of the kernel sources. So 'patching' and 'configuring' the kernel are pretty much the same thing. Look at how old that sidmat code is. It may have last had the documents updated when ipset was a kernel patch. Many things start out as a kernel patch, before being formally assimilated into the kernel sources. I unemerged ipset with emerge, fetched a new version from the internet, reconfigured the kernel accordingly, recompiled the kernel and this weekend I hopefully will have time to taste the soup... ;) Ah, net-firewall/ipset is probably different than ipset in the kernel sources. cd /usr/src/linux # find -name ipset -print ./net/netfilter/ipset ./include/uapi/linux/netfilter/ipset ./include/linux/netfilter/ipset So I think we are talking about (2)different things. Maybe related maybe just coincidence in names.. Sorry for the murky advice. Just dig a bit. http://ipset.netfilter.org/ explains the relationship hth, James
[gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 22:00:35 +0100 Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: What sort of improvements do you get? libreoffice here takes about 1h30 to build, give or take 10 mins or so. Doesn't seem worth the extra hassle of ccache for an hour and a half. It varies, but it can more than halve the time taken. Well worth the minute or two it took to set it up to happen automatically. You appear to be building claws-mail from git (as do I), which seems in theory a good use of ccache. Am I understanding this correctly? I've never used ccache before, but with your helpful config info I'm about to try it.
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
2015-08-05 23:51 GMT-06:00 Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net: Heiko Baums composed on 2015-08-06 07:19 (UTC+0200): ... It's actually pretty easy. I'm sure plenty have found that to be the case. My problem is inability to connect the dots between the 12.1 column on http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo and the instructions. Goal #1 is to get Grub 0.97 on my first pass following those instructions, and Grub2 never, rather than skipping the bootloader installation step. Goal #2 is to get through that first pass without any of systemd being installed. Choosing options rather accepting defaults is not pretty easy, at least for me who installed Gentoo only once previously, more than 4 years ago. While I think there isn't a reason to not use grub2, you can use 0.97 and don't stay on 2012, that table on distrowatch only has served the porpouse of confusing you, ignore it, packages in gentoo don't work that way, for many packages there's not only one version available you can build(usually stable, testing, and even directly from git), if you want to know what package versions are available go to https://packages.gentoo.org/. you can choose to install grub or grub 2 by selecting the slot 0 for grub. learning about slots is up to you.
Re: [gentoo-user] want to upgrade 50 month old installation
Am Wed, 5 Aug 2015 12:37:30 +0200 schrieb Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com: On 05/08/2015 09:00, Marc Joliet wrote: Am Tue, 04 Aug 2015 23:13:20 -0400 schrieb Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net: Neil Bothwick composed on 2015-08-04 21:36 (UTC+0100): On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 15:32:51 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: I've yet to figure out how to get a list of all installed packages akin to 'rpm -qa | sort', so I really don't know what my starting configuration is. qlist -ICv -bash: qlist: command not found emerge qlist fails (with unable to parse profile...unsupported EAPI '5') It is part of app-portage/portage-utils. Which he will have to install first :-) If the distfile is still available and he needs no deps, that will work as he has an old portage and tree. If not, well there's always go through /var/db/pkg with ls, find and friends I will pretend to have been paying better attention and just say: all I wanted to say was which package it was in, not how to install said package ;) . -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup pgpFgr1KEw4fs.pgp Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP
Re: [gentoo-user] Installing BTRFS on MBR with OpenRC
I'll skip the bits that were already dealt with. On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:19 AM, Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk wrote: First, btrfs balance. I had no idea that was needed, so of course I didn't include it in my attempts. Could that be why, on booting, the kernel couldn't mount the file system? It isn't necessarily essential, but btrfs fi df /mnt/gentoo will show you that before the balance there are still some chunks in single mode - it seems like mkfs creates the first device and adds the second one, leaving some residual non-RAID chunks (that hopefully will never have data written to them). The balance of an empty filesystem is really fast and completely converts it to raid1, so I figured it would be cleaner to do it this way. I have no idea what happens if those single chunks remain and you degrade the array. Third, why do you do your kernel compiling in /var/tmp/linux? It seems like extra work and I can't see a reason for it. I usually still do my compiling as root (though this isn't an ideal practice). I build in /var/tmp for a few reasons: 1. It keeps my sources clean. All the output goes in /var/tmp. Every build is pristine, etc. 2. /var/tmp is a tmpfs - so the build goes MUCH faster (only reads from my raid1 btrfs /usr/src, all writes go to tmpfs). Only the final built stuff has to be installed back (a fraction of total bytes written), and then you're reading from tmpfs and only writing to disk. Anytime you can avoid simultaneous read/writes from a disk things go much faster. Btrfs isn't exactly known for its speed at this point, especially for writes, so I try to avoid dumping junk on it. 3. If you're using gentoo-sources they'll actually cleanly uninstall since they aren't messed with. (Thanks to all for the comments so far. They offer opportunities for testing/experimentation, and also indicate where more explanation will be helpful when I turn this into an article. And, hopefully, a few will already benefit in getting their btrfs systems working with these notes.) (My article should also have a warning at the top - btrfs is experimental so don't come to me if it eats your data and you didn't have backups. raid1 is fairly mature at this point but I tend to stick with mature but recent longterm kernels (indeed, I should probably use a 3.18 series kernel explicitly in the install, and not let it go with 4.0 though that at least is starting to mature).) -- Rich
[gentoo-user] Re: Installing BTRFS on MBR with OpenRC
On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 07:18:08 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: I'll skip the bits that were already dealt with. On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:19 AM, Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk wrote: First, btrfs balance. I had no idea that was needed, so of course I didn't include it in my attempts. Could that be why, on booting, the kernel couldn't mount the file system? It isn't necessarily essential, but btrfs fi df /mnt/gentoo will show you that before the balance there are still some chunks in single mode - it seems like mkfs creates the first device and adds the second one, leaving some residual non-RAID chunks (that hopefully will never have data written to them). The balance of an empty filesystem is really fast and completely converts it to raid1, so I figured it would be cleaner to do it this way. I have no idea what happens if those single chunks remain and you degrade the array. Btw this should be fixed in btrfs-progs 4.1.3, hopefully out soon. I have the necessary patch in my local overlay and no longer see leftover single chunks after mkfs. -h
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 16:34:32 + (UTC), James wrote: Agreed. But we can (maybe eventually) offer more frequent live versions of gentoo, in a canned dvd(w/persistence) so that folks can test-drive gentoo, add a few packages and get comfortable before undertaking that long and winding manual install road? That's what Gentoo did years ago. You could download a DVD with prebuilt binary packages. It meant you could follow the handbook, but without changing use flags from the default profiles for that DVD, and get a running system in no time. I remember installing Gentoo on a PPC iBook about 10 years ago and it took an hour from booting the live DVD to having a working KDE desktop. Then I could tweak my USE flags and re-emerge stuff while the system was already usable. That for stopped for the traditional reason, lack of manpower, IIRC. All it would take... What it takes is someone to step up and offer to do the work. -- Neil Bothwick Did you hear about the blind prostitute? You have to hand it to her. pgpoSCG57YQH8.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Jc García jyo.garcia at gmail.com writes: I'm not saying push one over the other, but explain and delineate that choice *early* in the handbook. WE owe the larger linux community that wisdom:: that gentoo has made peace with systemd and openrc:: imho. OpenRC is there on the stage3, systemd isn't, if you don't think about systemd you get an OpenRC installation, I think it would confuse more people to talk about choosing init system(especially noobs) right at the beginning of the handbook. I think during the installation (before the reboot) lots of software can be installed or removed. So that means that systemd and companion packages are part of the installation. And systemd is a choice during the profile selection part of an installation. Also, I was writing concerning what Felix had expressed. Maybe I cut out too much his writing about systemd, distrowatch and such. Gmane often causes me to cut more than I'd like, before posting. Clearly there is no perfect pathway. But some discussion early on about the (2) fundamental choices is warranted as it is a concern for many, especially noobs, that visit gentoo for a test drive? Perhaps a discussion document, maybe as a footnote in the handbook or the homepage? hth, James
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Am 06.08.2015 um 18:34 schrieb James: Or, We could also point them to existing gentoo derivatives for a test-drive:: pentoo, lilblue, sabayon, calculate etc etc first, if we are not going to roll more frequent live* images? That's not a good idea, at least not regarding Sabayon. They use systemd as their default init system.
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thursday 06 Aug 2015 09:10:51 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 03:59:44 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: 1-Distrowatch is what lead me to believe I could do something I wished to do. Is it DistroWatch that led you to believe that what you wanted wasn't the default to start with? e.g. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Base discusses use of mirrorselect, before it directs to start chroot. In the context of a non-Gentoo boot (as offered in the alternative boot instructions) to get to stage 4, how exactly is mirrorselect to be found? Mirrorselect is optional, just pick a mrror based on geographical location. Re progress: I'm at the point of running emerge --ask sys-kernel/gentoo-sources, but it quits if I say no, and fails emerging sys-devel/bc-1.06.95-r1 (emake AR=$(tc-getAR)) if I say yes. :-( http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/G/config.txt Which clearly says ccache not found. That implies you have added ccache to FEATURES but not installed the ccache package. I know, I did the same thing last week. Probably O/T but why do you need ccache, unless you are rebuilding packages on a regular basis, e.g. for testing? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thursday 06 Aug 2015 18:59:11 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 16:34:32 + (UTC), James wrote: Agreed. But we can (maybe eventually) offer more frequent live versions of gentoo, in a canned dvd(w/persistence) so that folks can test-drive gentoo, add a few packages and get comfortable before undertaking that long and winding manual install road? That's what Gentoo did years ago. You could download a DVD with prebuilt binary packages. It meant you could follow the handbook, but without changing use flags from the default profiles for that DVD, and get a running system in no time. I remember installing Gentoo on a PPC iBook about 10 years ago and it took an hour from booting the live DVD to having a working KDE desktop. Then I could tweak my USE flags and re-emerge stuff while the system was already usable. Wasn't that the GRP option? That for stopped for the traditional reason, lack of manpower, IIRC. All it would take... What it takes is someone to step up and offer to do the work. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 19:25:08 +0100, Mick wrote: That's what Gentoo did years ago. You could download a DVD with prebuilt binary packages. It meant you could follow the handbook, but without changing use flags from the default profiles for that DVD, and get a running system in no time. I remember installing Gentoo on a PPC iBook about 10 years ago and it took an hour from booting the live DVD to having a working KDE desktop. Then I could tweak my USE flags and re-emerge stuff while the system was already usable. Wasn't that the GRP option? That was it, I couldn't remember the name. -- Neil Bothwick Someone who thinks logically is a nice contrast to the real world. pgpIuLu7gpwve.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
2015-08-06 10:34 GMT-06:00 James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com: I think the Handbook is getting better and better. However the systemd-openrc choice is something that needs to be explained early in the handbook from a neutral prospective. Let's face it, lots of folks become interested in Gentoo, often when they hear that you do not have to run systemd. I'm not saying push one over the other, but explain and delineate that choice *early* in the handbook. WE owe the larger linux community that wisdom:: that gentoo has made peace with systemd and openrc:: imho. OpenRC is there on the stage3, systemd isn't, if you don't think about systemd you get an OpenRC installation, I think it would confuse more people to talk about choosing init system(especially noobs) right at the beginning of the handbook.
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 19:17:56 +0100, Mick wrote: Which clearly says ccache not found. That implies you have added ccache to FEATURES but not installed the ccache package. I know, I did the same thing last week. Probably O/T but why do you need ccache, unless you are rebuilding packages on a regular basis, e.g. for testing? I only have it enabled for LibreOffice, which is a regular victim of @preserved-rebuild causing the same version to be rebuilt. -- Neil Bothwick There are two ways to live: you can live as if nothing is a miracle; you can live as if everything is a miracle. (Albert Einstein) pgpqxibke31Ok.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Am 06.08.2015 um 18:59 schrieb Jc García: OpenRC is there on the stage3, systemd isn't, if you don't think about systemd you get an OpenRC installation, I think it would confuse more people to talk about choosing init system(especially noobs) right at the beginning of the handbook. To get a really systemd-free system you unfortunately need to do two additional steps: 1. Add USE=-systemd to your /etc/portage/make.conf 2. Add INSTALL_MASK=/lib/systemd /lib32/systemd /lib64/systemd /usr/lib/systemd /usr/lib32/systemd /usr/lib64/systemd /etc/systemd to your /etc/portage/make.conf
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior [FIXED]
On Thursday, August 06, 2015 02:59:09 PM Mick wrote: On Wednesday 05 Aug 2015 22:47:43 Alan McKinnon wrote: On 05/08/2015 23:12, J. Roeleveld wrote: On Wednesday, August 05, 2015 06:20:17 PM Mick wrote: On Wednesday 05 Aug 2015 11:47:58 Alan McKinnon wrote: Much of what makes programming work has been dumbed down in recent years so that employable persons without imagination[1] can have jobs and do something useful. I'm reminded of an old saw about PHP: The nice thing about php is it let's everyone and their dog write code. The bad thing about php is that they do. Your imagination[1] footnote didn't make it to the list. I thought for a minute that you used some php parser ... :p It's not that old for an old saying. I can't find a reference to that saying older then august 2014 using Google. And all those are links to the same email written by our own Alan McKinnon Ah! That's because it was I who made it up years ago and have told it to lots of people. About a year ago is obviously the first time I wrote it down :-) Run the same search for perl - it's probably more appropriate than php and may find older samples of the same ol' saying. Nope, can't find a single hit with either line. Also would surprise me, as the largest part of the massive amount of bad code (mostly copy/pasted from each other) arrived after PHP appeared. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-224 Look out for new networking behavior [FIXED]
On Wednesday 05 Aug 2015 22:47:43 Alan McKinnon wrote: On 05/08/2015 23:12, J. Roeleveld wrote: On Wednesday, August 05, 2015 06:20:17 PM Mick wrote: On Wednesday 05 Aug 2015 11:47:58 Alan McKinnon wrote: Much of what makes programming work has been dumbed down in recent years so that employable persons without imagination[1] can have jobs and do something useful. I'm reminded of an old saw about PHP: The nice thing about php is it let's everyone and their dog write code. The bad thing about php is that they do. Your imagination[1] footnote didn't make it to the list. I thought for a minute that you used some php parser ... :p It's not that old for an old saying. I can't find a reference to that saying older then august 2014 using Google. And all those are links to the same email written by our own Alan McKinnon Ah! That's because it was I who made it up years ago and have told it to lots of people. About a year ago is obviously the first time I wrote it down :-) Run the same search for perl - it's probably more appropriate than php and may find older samples of the same ol' saying. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Am Wed, 5 Aug 2015 23:02:03 -0600 schrieb Jc García jyo.gar...@gmail.com: [...] Also sourceforge is a pretty decent host for publishing open source software, it offers wikis, mailing list, code repositories, in fact various projects use it to develop open source, you might be talking about softonic. [...] Have you been paying attention to the tech news the past few months? See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SourceForge#Controversies, in particular the part about project hijacking. That article links to various sources, for example this statement by the NMap project: http://seclists.org/nmap-dev/2015/q2/194. Supposedly SF.net stopped the project mirroring, but it'll take a lot of work from them to repair the damage their actions have done to their reputation, if that's at all achievable. Take away from the above what you will, but I don't trust SourceForge anymore. -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup pgpCRVNsmOoC3.pgp Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 03:59:44 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: 1-Distrowatch is what lead me to believe I could do something I wished to do. Is it DistroWatch that led you to believe that what you wanted wasn't the default to start with? e.g. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Base discusses use of mirrorselect, before it directs to start chroot. In the context of a non-Gentoo boot (as offered in the alternative boot instructions) to get to stage 4, how exactly is mirrorselect to be found? Mirrorselect is optional, just pick a mrror based on geographical location. Re progress: I'm at the point of running emerge --ask sys-kernel/gentoo-sources, but it quits if I say no, and fails emerging sys-devel/bc-1.06.95-r1 (emake AR=$(tc-getAR)) if I say yes. :-( http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/G/config.txt Which clearly says ccache not found. That implies you have added ccache to FEATURES but not installed the ccache package. I know, I did the same thing last week. -- Neil Bothwick I wonder how much deeper would the ocean be without sponges. pgp6TwNctxkJn.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
Jc García composed on 2015-08-05 23:57 (UTC-0600): Felix Miata composed: Are you sure you read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote? Pages like LMGTFY *leads to*, not LMGTFY. I was where that *leads to* yesterday and the day before while progressing generally through wiki.gentoo.org and www.gentoo.org futilely trying to reconcile what's available according to Distrowatch and what's sitting on Gentoo's mirrors. I'll be blunt, basically the intention was to say you should use google for these kind of questions, the options are really obvious if you have read the instructions in the gentoo wiki, and don't go to Distrowatch when trying to find instructions to install gentoo(why would you do that?). 1-Distrowatch is what lead me to believe I could do something I wished to do. 2-Support for the Distrowatch info that produced that belief defies discovery on gentoo.org. IOW, searching doesn't always produce useful results. Even when results are putatively useful, not everyone sees the same words as having unambiguous meaning. If they did, wither mailing lists and other QA forums. e.g. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Base discusses use of mirrorselect, before it directs to start chroot. In the context of a non-Gentoo boot (as offered in the alternative boot instructions) to get to stage 4, how exactly is mirrorselect to be found? Re progress: I'm at the point of running emerge --ask sys-kernel/gentoo-sources, but it quits if I say no, and fails emerging sys-devel/bc-1.06.95-r1 (emake AR=$(tc-getAR)) if I say yes. :-( http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/G/config.txt -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [gentoo-user] Searching for Overlays
On 06/08/2015 03:27, James wrote: OK so yes I know overlays in the wild can be disastrous. Reading the devmanual while parsing through various ebuilds both portage and in the wild, does make for some interesting reading:: ymmv. I'm not sure my overlay (kung_fu) is complete. 'layman -L' lists reasonably qualified overlay sites; but you have to add them to search out their content directly. 'eix -R keywordname ' will search far and wide for a given overlay; like the distributed database 'cassandra. Some googling suggest that zugaina contains a master list of overlays? (not sure how true this is). I'm not sure if 'eix -R' or 'browsing zugaina' provides the widest possible list of (mostly safe) overlay sites. Last, googling for the name + ebuild or overlay can find packages, but if the archive (git etc) is not listed with a layman -L:: be very cautious audit the details of the overlay. Specifically, on dev-db/cassandara I find 2.1.3 and 2.12 ([5] spike-community-overlay layman/spike-community-overlay) but the cassandra.apache.org site shows 2.1.8 and 2.20 as the stable and testing downloads currently available. So is it safe to use the spike-community overlay as a basis to update the cassandra ebuild I have available? In general, is there a list (even a private list) of know good/bad actors on these overlay sites? Any further tidbits on searching out and qualifying overlays (yes I know only a full code audit is actually safe) that folks use or would suggest would be keen. I did see some gentoo wiki pages on the subject but they seem terse or dated. To find Joe Random Hacker's overlay and see what's in it, I tend to browse zugaina. Coverage is decent and most stuff from most folks active in the Gentoo ecosystem is there. If an overlay is not listed on zugaina, these days it tends to be on github or similar. I usually just do a git checkout and cast my own eyeballs over the ebuilds. If I'm happy, import into layman (I think it's -o) with the xml file that should be provided Thus far I've had good success. As with everything else in Gentoo it's buyer beware, and train your eyeballs and brain beforehand. There does not seem to be an easy shortcuts. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 01:51:20 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: I'm sure plenty have found that to be the case. My problem is inability to connect the dots between the 12.1 column on http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo and the instructions. That link leads to the same page as if you clicked Downloads on gentoo.org! Goal #1 is to get Grub 0.97 on my first pass following those instructions, and Grub2 never, rather than skipping the bootloader installation step. The stage 3 does not install a bootloader, which is why the GRUB2 option at https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Bootloader tells you to install it. If you'd rather use a different bootloader, just install and configure it instead. I can think of no good reason to start with GRUB 0.97, but if that's what you want, just do it. Goal #2 is to get through that first pass without any of systemd being installed. Then just follow the handbook. It appears you have read neither the handbook nor the recent posts to your threads fully or you would know that systemd is not the default and requires some extra steps to install. Choosing options rather accepting defaults is not pretty easy, at least for me who installed Gentoo only once previously, more than 4 years ago. Gentoo is not supposed to be easy, but if you'd just followed the handbook you would have got what you wanted. -- Neil Bothwick If you use envelopes, why not encryption ? pgpxaiMnTy5DO.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Searching for Overlays
On 6 August 2015 at 09:50, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/08/2015 03:27, James wrote: OK so yes I know overlays in the wild can be disastrous. Reading the devmanual while parsing through various ebuilds both portage and in the wild, does make for some interesting reading:: ymmv. I'm not sure my overlay (kung_fu) is complete. 'layman -L' lists reasonably qualified overlay sites; but you have to add them to search out their content directly. 'eix -R keywordname ' will search far and wide for a given overlay; like the distributed database 'cassandra. Some googling suggest that zugaina contains a master list of overlays? (not sure how true this is). I'm not sure if 'eix -R' or 'browsing zugaina' provides the widest possible list of (mostly safe) overlay sites. Last, googling for the name + ebuild or overlay can find packages, but if the archive (git etc) is not listed with a layman -L:: be very cautious audit the details of the overlay. Specifically, on dev-db/cassandara I find 2.1.3 and 2.12 ([5] spike-community-overlay layman/spike-community-overlay) but the cassandra.apache.org site shows 2.1.8 and 2.20 as the stable and testing downloads currently available. So is it safe to use the spike-community overlay as a basis to update the cassandra ebuild I have available? In general, is there a list (even a private list) of know good/bad actors on these overlay sites? Any further tidbits on searching out and qualifying overlays (yes I know only a full code audit is actually safe) that folks use or would suggest would be keen. I did see some gentoo wiki pages on the subject but they seem terse or dated. To find Joe Random Hacker's overlay and see what's in it, I tend to browse zugaina. Coverage is decent and most stuff from most folks active in the Gentoo ecosystem is there. If an overlay is not listed on zugaina, these days it tends to be on github or similar. I usually just do a git checkout and cast my own eyeballs over the ebuilds. If I'm happy, import into layman (I think it's -o) with the xml file that should be provided Thus far I've had good success. As with everything else in Gentoo it's buyer beware, and train your eyeballs and brain beforehand. There does not seem to be an easy shortcuts. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com I would concur with Alan. The zugaina site is a very valuable resource. I happen to have an overlay in Layman and I have contacted Ycarus (who runs the zugaina site) when one of my packages wasn't sync'd with Layman. Apparently his site pulls in the overlays on an automated basis (cron job style). It is pretty quick to update/stay in sync though. I tend to look out for quality (or lack of) 3rd-party ebuilds by running repoman over them. Stale Overlays are pretty easy to spot as well... :-) -- All the best, Robert
Re: [gentoo-user] minimal installation CD iso is where?,
2015-08-06 1:40 GMT-06:00 Marc Joliet mar...@gmx.de: Am Wed, 5 Aug 2015 23:02:03 -0600 schrieb Jc García jyo.gar...@gmail.com: [...] Also sourceforge is a pretty decent host for publishing open source software, it offers wikis, mailing list, code repositories, in fact various projects use it to develop open source, you might be talking about softonic. [...] Have you been paying attention to the tech news the past few months? See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SourceForge#Controversies, in particular the part about project hijacking. ... Take away from the above what you will, but I don't trust SourceForge anymore. Interesting stuff, I don't really like the looks of sourceforge so I don't put any stuff there(I have been using gitlab), I was just giving credit to the fact that they do offer practically all the stuff you need to host an open source project, anyway most of the stuff I got from there was a git clone, so I didn't see it. I'll be extra careful not to host anything there. thanks.
[gentoo-user] [OT]: Optimal formatting a SDcard (64GB) with partions of diffent sizes and filesystems?
Hi, for my tablet PC I used a used 32GB FAT32 formatted SDcard. The formatting was already done by the manufacturer. Then I screwed it up and had to do the partioning and formatting myself again. No big deal, I thought -- and was wrong. Yes, the thing I got could be read and written. But it was DAMN slow in comparison to the original formatting. I googled and found a description, which described exactly, what I wanted: An optimal formatting for one big FAT32 partion. I did it again ;) and: TADA! The speed was back. LINK:http://zero1-st.blogspot.de/2012/05/formatting-fat32-volumes-larger-than.html Now I need the something identical but explained in a way that it can be successfully applied to any partion layout and any SDcard size. Currently the new SDcard has 64GB (yes, the tablet eats that size well :) and needs at least two partions: One FAT32 and one ext4. May be that I need a different layout later. To what aspect and logic do I have to keep my eyes on, when it comes partioning/formatting any SDcard size with any partion layout and any filesystem? Thank you very much in advance for any help! Best regards, Meino
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: want to upgrade 50 month old installation
On Wednesday 05 August 2015 17:52:28 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 16:26:02 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: Oh, and do you know why the handbook now says to include a tiny grub partition before the boot partition, even on an MBR system? If you use GPT on a motherboard with BIOS, you need that partition. It's on UEFI systems that you don't need it. Yes, I know that. It's why I asked. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] 'tar xvjpf stage3-*.tar.bz2 --xattrs' failed with unknown option --xattrs
Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: I booted x86_64 openSUSE 13.1 HD installation to try to begin Gentoo installation, beginning from Unpacking the stage tarball on https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:X86/Installation/Stage : # tar xvjpf /pub/stage3-sh4-20120307.tar.bz2 --xattrs Tar (GNU tar) v1.26 reported unrecognized option '--xattrs' Searching the tar man page for 'xattrs' produced no hits, and same for bzip2 man page. I rebooted into Debian Jessie instead to try again, and the same command with Gnu tar 1.27.1 completed, apparently normally. ??? xattr support is optional in tar. In fact, with Gentoo you can set USE=xattr or -xattr and get a tar with/without it. Apparently OpenSUSE builds their tar without xattr support, while Debian includes support for it. I recommend to use star instead as star always includes xattr support when the platform where it has been compiler supports the feature. Also note that the xattr implementaion in GNU tar that was copied from star is wrong and may cause problems. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.net(home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.org/private/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/schilytools/files/'
[gentoo-user] Re: Searching for Overlays
Bob Wya bob.mt.wya at gmail.com writes: I would concur with Alan. Please do not encourage him...it like tossing peanuts at the zoo! ;-) The zugaina site is a very valuable resource. Yea that's the collective (googling) wisdom:: zugaina. I happen to have an overlay in Layman and I have contacted Ycarus (who runs the zugaina site) when one of my packages wasn't sync'd with Layman. Apparently his site pulls in the overlays on an automated basis(cron job style). It is pretty quick to update/stay in sync though. Yes this is on my 'todo' list. In the past we have had many ways for users to publish their work as overlays. I'm going the GIT route for my user overlays :: [1] although this site only briefly mentions user-overlays. Since the GIT migrations, some gentoo wiki docs still need to be cleaned up a bit and fluffed out with more info and a clean itemization of how and where users should put their ebuilds and codes. I'm also looking around for a sexy front end (blog, wordpress etc that is easy to install/maintain, complete with links to the various git repositories where I put code. I guess I just have to make a decision on that:: so I can pretend to be 'cool'... I tend to look out for quality (or lack of) 3rd-party ebuilds by running repoman over them. Stale Overlays are pretty easy to spot as well... Good idea! I use repoman extensively on my ebuild hacks. I just never thought of it as a quick_checker for overlays ... a really good idea. I guess I subliminally minimize the use of repoman, because when I run it on my codes/builds it usually sinks quite a bit of time... subsequently. Thanks Alan and Bob James [1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Overlays/Dev_Guide#Requesting_An_Overlay
Re: [gentoo-user] Searching for Overlays
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 15:51:06 +0100, Bob Wya wrote: I happen to have an overlay in Layman and I have contacted Ycarus (who runs the zugaina site) when one of my packages wasn't sync'd with Layman. Apparently his site pulls in the overlays on an automated basis (cron job style). It is pretty quick to update/stay in sync though. Funnily enough, I added your overlay a couple of hours ago, to install Filebot. -- Neil Bothwick Having children will turn you into your parents. pgpuLuqSotIa3.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
