Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 11:42:35AM +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote The official release is an indication of the life of a distribution or package. Look at one of Keith Packard's reasons for leaving Xfree86 (slow release cycle), or Gnome's recent push to speed their release cycle. One, of several, reason I left Windows in 2001 was... 1995 Windows95 1996 Windows95 OSr2 1998 Windows98 1999 Windows98SE 2000 Windows ME and Windows2000 2001 WindowsXP ..and I believed MS when they said Vista was real soon nowg. I don't use linux to install linux, I use linux as a tool to do email, spreadsheets, web surfing, etc. And I've got nothing on businesses. They don't want their high-paid admins constantly spending their time installing the latest and greatest. Businesses want to set it and forget it. A few data points... in the leadup to Y2K, there were a lot of mainframe/mini programs replaced that had been running unmodified for 10 or 20 years http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/04/12/missing_novell_server_discovered_after/ tells about a university where a wall was built that happened to imprison a server. It kept happily chugging away, and it wasn't until 4 years later, during an audit, that it was finally tracked down, by following the network cabling one of Redhat's selling points with Redhat Enterprise Linux is the promise of a slower release cycle. Timely security patches, yes. But OS version du jour, NO. -- Walter Dnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm not repeating myself I'm an X Window user... I'm an ex-Windows-user -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 11:22 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 11 January 2008, Shaochun Wang wrote: On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:58:16AM +0100, Pongracz Istvan wrote: 2008. 01. 11, p茅ntek keltez茅ssel 09.37-kor Daniel Pielmeier ezt 铆rta: joke Or they will change to GYN (Gentoo Yearly Newsletter) :) /joke Maybe you joke will become the truth. Currently, Gentoo has not updated its installation CD for a long time! Why do you think gentoo *needs* to update it's install CD? The official release is an indication of the life of a distribution or package. Look at one of Keith Packard's reasons for leaving Xfree86 (slow release cycle), or Gnome's recent push to speed their release cycle. I know that I can still use the latest install CD, and do an update. However, the install CD is only one indication of Gentoo's problems. The out of date website, the newsletter releases, the sad responses to the how are we doing question on gentoo-dev... Anyway I digress... -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Real computer scientists like having a computer on their desk, else how could they read their mail? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
Is Gentoo Weekly Newsletter dead? The most recent update is 15 Oct, 2007. What happened in Gentoo community? -- Shaochun Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
2008/1/11, Shaochun Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Is Gentoo Weekly Newsletter dead? The most recent update is 15 Oct, 2007. What happened in Gentoo community? There is currently a discussion on gentoo-dev. It looks like it will be changed to a GMN (Gentoo Monthly Newsletter) due to the lack of contributions. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
2008. 01. 11, péntek keltezéssel 09.37-kor Daniel Pielmeier ezt írta: 2008/1/11, Shaochun Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Is Gentoo Weekly Newsletter dead? The most recent update is 15 Oct, 2007. What happened in Gentoo community? There is currently a discussion on gentoo-dev. It looks like it will be changed to a GMN (Gentoo Monthly Newsletter) due to the lack of contributions. joke Or they will change to GYN (Gentoo Yearly Newsletter) :) /joke -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:58:16AM +0100, Pongracz Istvan wrote: 2008. 01. 11, p茅ntek keltez茅ssel 09.37-kor Daniel Pielmeier ezt 铆rta: joke Or they will change to GYN (Gentoo Yearly Newsletter) :) /joke Maybe you joke will become the truth. Currently, Gentoo has not updated its installation CD for a long time! -- Shaochun Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Friday 11 January 2008, Shaochun Wang wrote: On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:58:16AM +0100, Pongracz Istvan wrote: 2008. 01. 11, p茅ntek keltez茅ssel 09.37-kor Daniel Pielmeier ezt 铆rta: joke Or they will change to GYN (Gentoo Yearly Newsletter) :) /joke Maybe you joke will become the truth. Currently, Gentoo has not updated its installation CD for a long time! Why do you think gentoo *needs* to update it's install CD? -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
2008/1/11, Shaochun Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:58:16AM +0100, Pongracz Istvan wrote: 2008. 01. 11, p茅ntek keltez茅ssel 09.37-kor Daniel Pielmeier ezt 铆rta: joke Or they will change to GYN (Gentoo Yearly Newsletter) :) /joke Maybe you joke will become the truth. Currently, Gentoo has not updated its installation CD for a long time! You can use other means of information, join gentoo-dev or the forums for example to get informed. Gentoo does not need any kind of installation CD. You can use other Live CD's for installing Gentoo if you have hardware which is not supported by the latest Gentoo Release. Just for updating your installation there is no need for any installation media, execpt you do not have a proper internet-connection. So just sync and update!
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Jan 11, 2008 11:19 AM, Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 11 January 2008, Galevsky wrote: You can say that devs have no time to make it, but please, don't tell that Gentoo doesn't need any installCD (outdated means no CD at all for many computers nowaday). Please tell me where I said any such thing. As I said, outdated means no CD at all for many computers nowaday. And I tought you told us that the current Gentoo installCD has no need to be upgraded. I'll give you a clue - I didn't. I asked you why you think the install CD needs updated. I misunderstood your question... Apparently your answer to that is that you have a ICH9 machine. That's fine, it's reasonable to need that supported on the BootCD. Was it really necessary to take out your frustrations/whatever with the installer on me on a public mailing list? Hmmm? Sorry if I were rude with you Alan, it was not my intentions, plus I mixed up you question with the affirmation no need to update. Gal' -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
Dirk Heinrichs wrote: Am Freitag, 11. Januar 2008 schrieb ext Shaochun Wang: Currently, Gentoo has not updated its installation CD for a long time! They don't need to. One week ago I used a GRML cd to install a new Gentoo system. Bye... Dirk Knoppix will work too. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
Am Freitag, 11. Januar 2008 schrieb ext Shaochun Wang: Currently, Gentoo has not updated its installation CD for a long time! They don't need to. One week ago I used a GRML cd to install a new Gentoo system. Bye... Dirk -- Dirk Heinrichs | Tel: +49 (0)162 234 3408 Configuration Manager | Fax: +49 (0)211 47068 111 Capgemini Deutschland | Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wanheimerstraße 68 | Web: http://www.capgemini.com D-40468 Düsseldorf | ICQ#: 110037733 GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: www.keyserver.net signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Jan 11, 2008 10:38 AM, Dirk Heinrichs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Freitag, 11. Januar 2008 schrieb ext Shaochun Wang: Currently, Gentoo has not updated its installation CD for a long time! They don't need to. One week ago I used a GRML cd to install a new Gentoo system. On Jan 11, 2008 10:22 AM, Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do you think gentoo *needs* to update it's install CD? Because Gentoo is a distro, and as a distro, it should have a way to be installed on a computer... I upgraded my hardware recently and my previous gentoo distro was not able to boot (ICH9 + JMicron controller) because no SATA HD was recognized with my old 2.6.18 kernel the only way to boot was livecd with right kernel/modules. But Gentoo was not able to provide a *so basic feature*, the one that let me boot on my computer and you see no needs with that ? Well, if Gentoo is not able to make my computer booting, it is sure that I have no need to get maintained portage nor any one of the ebuilds... To fix my problem, I had a look at other distro LiveCD, but had a too old kernel inside, then fell back to a custom-made Gentoo LiveCD found on the gentoo forums. Maybe *YOU* don't have the need to spend hours looking for an installCD/LiveCD, but it is a true one for lots of people that faced this problem. What Gentoo have to tell to these people ? Let's get to hell since Gentoo installCD is outdated ? You can say that devs have no time to make it, but please, don't tell that Gentoo doesn't need any installCD (outdated means no CD at all for many computers nowaday). Gal' -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
Galevsky schrieb: On Jan 11, 2008 10:38 AM, Dirk Heinrichs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Freitag, 11. Januar 2008 schrieb ext Shaochun Wang: Currently, Gentoo has not updated its installation CD for a long time! They don't need to. One week ago I used a GRML cd to install a new Gentoo system. On Jan 11, 2008 10:22 AM, Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do you think gentoo *needs* to update it's install CD? Because Gentoo is a distro, and as a distro, it should have a way to be installed on a computer... I upgraded my hardware recently and my previous gentoo distro was not able to boot (ICH9 + JMicron controller) because no SATA HD was recognized with my old 2.6.18 kernel the only way to boot was livecd with right kernel/modules. But Gentoo was not able to provide a *so basic feature*, the one that let me boot on my computer and you see no needs with that ? Well, if Gentoo is not able to make my computer booting, it is sure that I have no need to get maintained portage nor any one of the ebuilds... [..] Gal' Right, basicly telling people You have to depend on / use other distros to install our OS, cause we are not able to / don´t have time to provide this sounds a little fishy. It makes Gentoo look incomplete. MHO Norman -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
The 2007.1 release has been canceled by the release-engineering-team because of multiple-problems, maybe there will be a 2008.0 release with fresh install-media. Again i recommend join gentoo-dev and you will see what is going on! -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Friday 11 January 2008, Galevsky wrote: You can say that devs have no time to make it, but please, don't tell that Gentoo doesn't need any installCD (outdated means no CD at all for many computers nowaday). Please tell me where I said any such thing. I'll give you a clue - I didn't. I asked you why you think the install CD needs updated. Apparently your answer to that is that you have a ICH9 machine. That's fine, it's reasonable to need that supported on the BootCD. Was it really necessary to take out your frustrations/whatever with the installer on me on a public mailing list? Hmmm? -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 11 January 2008, Galevsky wrote: You can say that devs have no time to make it, but please, don't tell that Gentoo doesn't need any installCD (outdated means no CD at all for many computers nowaday). Please tell me where I said any such thing. I'll give you a clue - I didn't. I asked you why you think the install CD needs updated. Apparently your answer to that is that you have a ICH9 machine. That's fine, it's reasonable to need that supported on the BootCD. Was it really necessary to take out your frustrations/whatever with the installer on me on a public mailing list? Hmmm? Isn't it true that not everything can be supported anyway? The CD can hold only so much data before it runs out of space. I suspect that some older hardware is not included to make room for more recent hardware. Also, at the rate things comes out, a new CD would have to be made every few months to keep up. From what I have read on -dev, it is harder to make the CD than some realize. They have a lot to consider on what to include and what to leave out. To clarify, I am talking about the CD that includes distfiles and a snapshot. The minimal CD and DVD is a separate matter. Dale :-) :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Jan 11, 2008 11:30 AM, Daniel Pielmeier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 2007.1 release has been canceled by the release-engineering-team because of multiple-problems, maybe there will be a 2008.0 release with fresh install-media. Again i recommend join gentoo-dev and you will see what is going on! Be sure: I am currently working for that and I 'll do all my possibilities to invest me in Gentoo. Gal' -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
I'm back :) Anyway, I create some install cds for my own and I put it to my website for others. 15 downloads registered. (~8GB transfer for the latest) I also create a fresh stage3 for my usage (just for fun, etc.) and I also put it to my site. 3.6GB downloaded (more than 30). So, it is possible to create your own livecd at any time, just start to play with catalyst :) Cheers, István 2008. 01. 11, péntek keltezéssel 11.50-kor Galevsky ezt írta: On Jan 11, 2008 11:30 AM, Daniel Pielmeier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 2007.1 release has been canceled by the release-engineering-team because of multiple-problems, maybe there will be a 2008.0 release with fresh install-media. Again i recommend join gentoo-dev and you will see what is going on! Be sure: I am currently working for that and I 'll do all my possibilities to invest me in Gentoo. Gal' -- eGroupWare, gLiveCD, gentoo és barátai http://www.osbusiness.hu „A humor a méltóság támasza, fölényünket hirdeti mindazzal szemben, amit a sors ránk mér.” (Romain Gary) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Friday 11 January 2008, Galevsky wrote: Sorry if I were rude with you Alan, it was not my intentions, plus I mixed up you question with the affirmation no need to update. No problem. Part of the fun of gentoo is you get to figure out how it works and you get to hack it yourself. Kinda like driving an old Ferrari :-) I honestly believe that gentoo is not built for the mass market, so their needs do not apply. The real needs do apply though. An installer that always works and is always current is not an appropriate high-priority need for gentoo. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Jan 11, 2008 1:46 PM, Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's sent multipart, so the pure text can be used alone for users like Qian Qiao. That's how I've set up my kmail (I can view it as html if I wish) To be honest, it's not really a big deal for a list like this. The text is 492 bytes, the html is 867 bytes and the whole thing is 4.5k In other words, the text and html *together* are still smaller than the headers :-) I can view you messages as plain text fine, but not Dales, might be something on my part, will have a loot. -- Joe -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Jan 11, 2008 11:40 AM, Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Friday 11 January 2008, Galevsky wrote:
Sorry if I were rude with you Alan, it was not my intentions, plus I
mixed up you question with the affirmation no need to update.
No problem.
Part of the fun of gentoo is you get to figure out how it works and you
get to hack it yourself.
Kinda like driving an old Ferrari :-)
I honestly believe that gentoo is not built for the mass market, so
their needs do not apply. The real needs do apply though.
An installer that always works and is always current is not an
appropriate high-priority need for gentoo.
I completely agree with Alan, Gentoo is a metadistro, and it provides
(by Handbook) a LOT of ways to install, spending time on a new CD
every 6 months just to support hardware, while you still need to type
the commands yourself is a waste of time, and the Installer has proven
its not worth the trouble. Its like reinventing the wheel, as we
already have TONS of small, updated LiveCDs all over the web. You just
CAN'T compare a binary distro install with Gentoo, that's like
comparing a Bettle with a Landrover, just because both of them have
explosing engines.
The only thing I like about new releases are the nift livecd gensplash
themes... Lol.
--
Daniel da Veiga
Filosofia de TI: Programadores de verdade consideram o conceito o que
você vê é o que você tem tão ruim em editores de texto quanto em
mulheres. Não, o programador de verdade quer um editor de texto do
estilo você pediu, você levou - complicado, indecifrável, poderoso,
impiedoso, perigoso.
z�b�� z{h���x%�
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Friday 11 January 2008, Dale wrote: Qian Qiao wrote: I'm sorry this goes OT Dale, but unfortunately, my mail client cannot render html messages properly, and I trust a lot of people on the list have the same problem. If would be nice if you can post in plain text, at least in this list. Thanks I have it set to send it text for this domain. Is it not sending in plain text? I have the same settings for other mailing lists as well. Thanks for pointing it out if it is not sending plain text tho. It's sent multipart, so the pure text can be used alone for users like Qian Qiao. That's how I've set up my kmail (I can view it as html if I wish) To be honest, it's not really a big deal for a list like this. The text is 492 bytes, the html is 867 bytes and the whole thing is 4.5k In other words, the text and html *together* are still smaller than the headers :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:35:22 -0600, Dale wrote: I have it set to send it text for this domain. Is it not sending in plain text? I have the same settings for other mailing lists as well. You're sending multipart, plain and html, mails. -- Neil Bothwick Stop tagline theft! Copyright your tagline (c) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
Qian Qiao wrote: I'm sorry this goes OT Dale, but unfortunately, my mail client cannot render html messages properly, and I trust a lot of people on the list have the same problem. If would be nice if you can post in plain text, at least in this list. Thanks I have it set to send it text for this domain. Is it not sending in plain text? I have the same settings for other mailing lists as well. Thanks for pointing it out if it is not sending plain text tho. Dale
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Jan 11, 2008 10:38 AM, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 11 January 2008, Galevsky wrote: You can say that devs have no time to make it, but please, don't tell that Gentoo doesn't need any installCD (outdated means no CD at all for many computers nowaday). Please tell me where I said any such thing. I'll give you a clue - I didn't. I asked you why you think the install CD needs updated. Apparently your answer to that is that you have a ICH9 machine. That's fine, it's reasonable to need that supported on the BootCD. Was it really necessary to take out your frustrations/whatever with the installer on me on a public mailing list? Hmmm? Isn't it true that not everything can be supported anyway? The CD can hold only so much data before it runs out of space. I suspect that some older hardware is not included to make room for more recent hardware. Also, at the rate things comes out, a new CD would have to be made every few months to keep up. From what I have read on -dev, it is harder to make the CD than some realize. They have a lot to consider on what to include and what to leave out. To clarify, I am talking about the CD that includes distfiles and a snapshot. The minimal CD and DVD is a separate matter. Dale I'm sorry this goes OT Dale, but unfortunately, my mail client cannot render html messages properly, and I trust a lot of people on the list have the same problem. If would be nice if you can post in plain text, at least in this list. Thanks -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Friday 11 January 2008, Dale wrote: Qian Qiao wrote: I'm sorry this goes OT Dale, but unfortunately, my mail client cannot render html messages properly, and I trust a lot of people on the list have the same problem. If would be nice if you can post in plain text, at least in this list. Thanks I have it set to send it text for this domain. Is it not sending in plain text? I have the same settings for other mailing lists as well. Thanks for pointing it out if it is not sending plain text tho. It seems you're sending a multipart/alternative, which means that the message contains both the plain text and the html (in separate sections of course), and it's up to the MUA of the receiver to choose which to display. At least that's what I'm seeing here. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 11 January 2008, Dale wrote: Qian Qiao wrote: I'm sorry this goes OT Dale, but unfortunately, my mail client cannot render html messages properly, and I trust a lot of people on the list have the same problem. If would be nice if you can post in plain text, at least in this list. Thanks I have it set to send it text for this domain. Is it not sending in plain text? I have the same settings for other mailing lists as well. Thanks for pointing it out if it is not sending plain text tho. It's sent multipart, so the pure text can be used alone for users like Qian Qiao. That's how I've set up my kmail (I can view it as html if I wish) To be honest, it's not really a big deal for a list like this. The text is 492 bytes, the html is 867 bytes and the whole thing is 4.5k In other words, the text and html *together* are still smaller than the headers :-) True, but I do try to go with the flow here. I use Seamonkey for my email. I went to Edit and Preferences then chose Send formats. I place gentoo.org in the text only section. What else can I do to make sure it sends it correctly? I do prefer to send it text only since some do use some strange email programs. Thanks Dale :-) :-) :-)
