Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On Monday 07 February 2011 16:51:28 Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sun, Feb 06, 2011 at 03:07:59AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote > > From "lspci -v"... > > 01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Device 9712 > (prog-if 00 [VGA controller]) > Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI] Device 0372 > Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 18 > Memory at c000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M] > I/O ports at 9000 [size=256] > Memory at d010 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] > Memory at d000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=1M] > Expansion ROM at [disabled] > Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 3 > Capabilities: [a0] MSI: Enable- Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+ > Kernel driver in use: radeon > > 01:05.1 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc Device 970f > Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI] Device 0372 > Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 19 > Memory at d011 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K] > Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 3 > Capabilities: [a0] MSI: Enable- Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+ > Kernel driver in use: HDA Inte > > Are you sure you're requesting a supported mode? Execute... > > grep Modeline /var/log/Xorg.0.log > > ...and see if the mode you want is in the list. I'm also using the radeon driver. It works here for different resolutions irrespective of the native resolution of the screen. Of course if the selected resolution is not a multiple of the native screen size then the fonts are distorted, but display all the same. It should be able to display whatever your card can do - but of course not all resolutions that you may think of. HTH. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On Sun, Feb 06, 2011 at 03:07:59AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote From "lspci -v"... 01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Device 9712 (prog-if 00 [VGA controller]) Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI] Device 0372 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 18 Memory at c000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M] I/O ports at 9000 [size=256] Memory at d010 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] Memory at d000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=1M] Expansion ROM at [disabled] Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [a0] MSI: Enable- Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+ Kernel driver in use: radeon 01:05.1 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc Device 970f Subsystem: Acer Incorporated [ALI] Device 0372 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 19 Memory at d011 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K] Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [a0] MSI: Enable- Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+ Kernel driver in use: HDA Inte Are you sure you're requesting a supported mode? Execute... grep Modeline /var/log/Xorg.0.log ...and see if the mode you want is in the list. -- Walter Dnes
[gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On 02/05/2011 03:43 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: the latest builds of "screen" are in a git repository, which I'm not familiar with. (I'm not the same Walter, as you know already :) I urge everyone to get to know git. I admit, I could be prejudiced in git's favor just because it was the first vcs I learned after cvs, but git is going to gain market share just because Linus is who he is. I've now used svn (barf!), bzr (to track grub2), mercurial (to track thunderbird and firefox), and the ancient cvs (which is jumping head first into its grave). I omitted bitkeeper from the list because it's a closed-source product, but Linus has given credit to bitkeeper's creator for inspiring him to write git in the first place. (I barely remember using bitkeeper.) Maybe I just think like Linus, I dunno, but for me git "just works", unlike its competitors -- svn in particular, which has earned a very special place in my personal software hell.
[gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On 02/06/2011 01:54 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: On Sat, Feb 05, 2011 at 09:31:48PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote On 02/05/2011 08:00 PM, Mick wrote: Just try video=1024x768 (or whatever your desired resolution is) on the kernel line and it should just work. Unfortunately, it doesn't. Actually, it does, "video=640x480" in my case. The weird part is that the equivalant "VGA=6" option no longer works, which is what got me to start this thread in the first place. I had simply assumed that they were identical, and if one doesn't work, neither does the other. Note that this is just for text consoles, X remains at 1920x1200 for me. Of course, the monitor has to support whatever text console resolution you ask for. What graphics card are you using? I can't make it work here using the radeon driver.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On Sat, Feb 05, 2011 at 09:31:48PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote > On 02/05/2011 08:00 PM, Mick wrote: > > > > Just try video=1024x768 (or whatever your desired resolution is) > > on the kernel line and it should just work. > > Unfortunately, it doesn't. Actually, it does, "video=640x480" in my case. The weird part is that the equivalant "VGA=6" option no longer works, which is what got me to start this thread in the first place. I had simply assumed that they were identical, and if one doesn't work, neither does the other. Note that this is just for text consoles, X remains at 1920x1200 for me. Of course, the monitor has to support whatever text console resolution you ask for. -- Walter Dnes
[gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On 02/05/2011 08:00 PM, Mick wrote: Right, but a framebuffer (KMS driven or vesa, et al.) is not a bad thing. Just try video=1024x768 (or whatever your desired resolution is) on the kernel line and it should just work. Unfortunately, it doesn't.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On Saturday 05 February 2011 18:00:10 Mick wrote: > On Saturday 05 February 2011 15:27:27 Walter Dnes wrote: > > In "make menuconfig", I do not have any drivers enabled under... > > > > Device Drivers ---> > > > > Graphics support ---> > > -*- Support for frame buffer devices ---> > > > > but I still have /dev/fb0 show up. Under... > > > > Console display driver support ---> > > > > the line... > > > > -*- Framebuffer Console support > > > > indicates that framebuffer console support is enabled, whether I like it > > or not. This is part and parcel of the ARI Radeon driver. Without it, > > no X. > > Right, but a framebuffer (KMS driven or vesa, et al.) is not a bad thing. > Just try video=1024x768 (or whatever your desired resolution is) on the > kernel line and it should just work. Oops! Walter please ignore this message ... I just saw that you have solved it on your later reply. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On Saturday 05 February 2011 15:27:27 Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 04:05:01PM -0800, walt wrote > > > On 02/03/2011 02:11 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > > > On 02/03/2011 08:07 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > > >> Is there a way to have a real text console? I know that I can > > >> have 2 X sessions on tty10 and tty11 with different resolutions, and > > >> colour depths. Is there a way to set tty1..tty9 to 640x480 *IN TEXT > > >> MODE*, so that lat1-?? fonts would look normal, without killing the > > >> ability to have X run at 1920x1200? > > > > > > Note that the suggestion the others gave about disabling KMS is > > > probably > > > > > >not what you need. Disabling KMS means that it will also be disabled for > > >X11, not only for the framebuffer. As you can imagine this is a bad > > >thing. > > > > I'm aware of KMS because of my experiments with the 'nouveau' driver, but > > I still have no idea what KMS really does. > > > > In other words, I *cannot* imagine why disabling KMS is a bad thing, but > > I would very much like to know :) > > Walt, Alan, Enrico, Nikos see the thread "Not getting video hardware > acceleration" that I started on January 31. Without KMS, and the > resulting DRI2 acceleration, my laptop could not run mplayer fast enough > to keep up with an HDTV feed. With KMS, which is required by the bibary > blob in the new Radeon driver, it works fine. The documentation at > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/xorg-config.xml requires KMS for newer ATI > Radeon cards. > > In "make menuconfig", I do not have any drivers enabled under... > Device Drivers ---> > Graphics support ---> > -*- Support for frame buffer devices ---> > but I still have /dev/fb0 show up. Under... > Console display driver support ---> > the line... > -*- Framebuffer Console support > indicates that framebuffer console support is enabled, whether I like it > or not. This is part and parcel of the ARI Radeon driver. Without it, > no X. Right, but a framebuffer (KMS driven or vesa, et al.) is not a bad thing. Just try video=1024x768 (or whatever your desired resolution is) on the kernel line and it should just work. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 04:05:01PM -0800, walt wrote > On 02/03/2011 02:11 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > > On 02/03/2011 08:07 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> Is there a way to have a real text console? I know that I can > >> have 2 X sessions on tty10 and tty11 with different resolutions, and > >> colour depths. Is there a way to set tty1..tty9 to 640x480 *IN TEXT > >> MODE*, so that lat1-?? fonts would look normal, without killing the > >> ability to have X run at 1920x1200? > > > > Note that the suggestion the others gave about disabling KMS is probably > >not what you need. Disabling KMS means that it will also be disabled for > >X11, not only for the framebuffer. As you can imagine this is a bad thing. > > I'm aware of KMS because of my experiments with the 'nouveau' driver, but > I still have no idea what KMS really does. > > In other words, I *cannot* imagine why disabling KMS is a bad thing, but I > would very much like to know :) Walt, Alan, Enrico, Nikos see the thread "Not getting video hardware acceleration" that I started on January 31. Without KMS, and the resulting DRI2 acceleration, my laptop could not run mplayer fast enough to keep up with an HDTV feed. With KMS, which is required by the bibary blob in the new Radeon driver, it works fine. The documentation at http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/xorg-config.xml requires KMS for newer ATI Radeon cards. In "make menuconfig", I do not have any drivers enabled under... Device Drivers ---> Graphics support ---> -*- Support for frame buffer devices ---> but I still have /dev/fb0 show up. Under... Console display driver support ---> the line... -*- Framebuffer Console support indicates that framebuffer console support is enabled, whether I like it or not. This is part and parcel of the ARI Radeon driver. Without it, no X. -- Walter Dnes
[gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On 02/04/2011 08:10 PM, Paul Hartman wrote: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: [...] For the radeon driver at least, disabling KMS means that you won't get DRI2 in X11. That means slower performance and tearing. The non-KMS X driver is pretty much considered deprecated. Anecdote: On my laptop, which has a Radeon Mobility 9700 (uses RV350 or RV360), I got 30fps in Sauerbraten using the old non-KMS radeon driver, and only 15fps using the new KMS driver. Enabling gallium on latest mesa improves that to about 18fps, but causes my computer to crash after a few minutes... Sounds like a very outdated driver to me.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
* Alan McKinnon wrote: > KMS removes the need for the video driver to be aware of all > the nonsense that requires. The driver no longer needs to get > up close and personal with everything else the kernel is doing > and make really sure it's timing is really right. Of course, > the video driver has to support KMS for this to work. nVidia > doesn't, nouveau does. AFAIK, KMS moves parts of the video driver's jobs to kernelspace. Mode switching from userland (more precisely: done by X) always has been a tricky and unstable thing, eg. crashing Xserver leaving behind usuable console. That should be gone w/ KMS (admitting, I didn't really test it yet). cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > On 02/04/2011 02:05 AM, walt wrote: >> >> On 02/03/2011 02:11 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >>> >>> On 02/03/2011 08:07 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: Is there a way to have a real text console? I know that I can have 2 X sessions on tty10 and tty11 with different resolutions, and colour depths. Is there a way to set tty1..tty9 to 640x480 *IN TEXT MODE*, so that lat1-?? fonts would look normal, without killing the ability to have X run at 1920x1200? >>> >>> Note that the suggestion the others gave about disabling KMS is probably >>> not what you need. Disabling KMS means that it will also be disabled for >>> X11, not only for the framebuffer. As you can imagine this is a bad >>> thing. >> >> I'm aware of KMS because of my experiments with the 'nouveau' driver, but >> I still have no idea what KMS really does. >> >> In other words, I *cannot* imagine why disabling KMS is a bad thing, but I >> would very much like to know :) > > For the radeon driver at least, disabling KMS means that you won't get DRI2 > in X11. That means slower performance and tearing. The non-KMS X driver is > pretty much considered deprecated. Anecdote: On my laptop, which has a Radeon Mobility 9700 (uses RV350 or RV360), I got 30fps in Sauerbraten using the old non-KMS radeon driver, and only 15fps using the new KMS driver. Enabling gallium on latest mesa improves that to about 18fps, but causes my computer to crash after a few minutes... Both of them are slower than the proprietary ati-drivers used to be, but I stopped using those a long time ago (and they don't support my card anymore anyway).
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
Apparently, though unproven, at 02:05 on Friday 04 February 2011, walt did opine thusly: > On 02/03/2011 02:11 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > > On 02/03/2011 08:07 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> Is there a way to have a real text console? I know that I can > >> have 2 X sessions on tty10 and tty11 with different resolutions, and > >> colour depths. Is there a way to set tty1..tty9 to 640x480 *IN TEXT > >> MODE*, so that lat1-?? fonts would look normal, without killing the > >> ability to have X run at 1920x1200? > > > > Note that the suggestion the others gave about disabling KMS is probably > > > >not what you need. Disabling KMS means that it will also be disabled for > >X11, not only for the framebuffer. As you can imagine this is a bad thing. > > I'm aware of KMS because of my experiments with the 'nouveau' driver, but > I still have no idea what KMS really does. > > In other words, I *cannot* imagine why disabling KMS is a bad thing, but I > would very much like to know :) Very short answer: Without KMS, changing video modes or changing from console to X requires a fantastically gigantic amount of swapping running code in and out, handing over control of the graphics hardware for one driver to another, and is a magnificent bug-injection mechanism. It's why it takes 2-3 seconds to switch from X to tty1 and why some hardware flickers like in banshee while doing it. KMS removes the need for the video driver to be aware of all the nonsense that requires. The driver no longer needs to get up close and personal with everything else the kernel is doing and make really sure it's timing is really right. Of course, the video driver has to support KMS for this to work. nVidia doesn't, nouveau does. In fact, nouveau *requires* KMS. It's such a good idea that the nouveau devs decided they were simply not going to support no-KMS. Disabling KMS (if it works with your hardware and drivers) in general is a bad idea as you lose all that nice KMS goodness. It's an especially bad idea with nouveau as the video hardware stops working at all. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On 02/04/2011 02:05 AM, walt wrote: On 02/03/2011 02:11 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 02/03/2011 08:07 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: Is there a way to have a real text console? I know that I can have 2 X sessions on tty10 and tty11 with different resolutions, and colour depths. Is there a way to set tty1..tty9 to 640x480 *IN TEXT MODE*, so that lat1-?? fonts would look normal, without killing the ability to have X run at 1920x1200? Note that the suggestion the others gave about disabling KMS is probably not what you need. Disabling KMS means that it will also be disabled for X11, not only for the framebuffer. As you can imagine this is a bad thing. I'm aware of KMS because of my experiments with the 'nouveau' driver, but I still have no idea what KMS really does. In other words, I *cannot* imagine why disabling KMS is a bad thing, but I would very much like to know :) For the radeon driver at least, disabling KMS means that you won't get DRI2 in X11. That means slower performance and tearing. The non-KMS X driver is pretty much considered deprecated.
[gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On 02/03/2011 02:11 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: On 02/03/2011 08:07 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: Is there a way to have a real text console? I know that I can have 2 X sessions on tty10 and tty11 with different resolutions, and colour depths. Is there a way to set tty1..tty9 to 640x480 *IN TEXT MODE*, so that lat1-?? fonts would look normal, without killing the ability to have X run at 1920x1200? Note that the suggestion the others gave about disabling KMS is probably not what you need. Disabling KMS means that it will also be disabled for X11, not only for the framebuffer. As you can imagine this is a bad thing. I'm aware of KMS because of my experiments with the 'nouveau' driver, but I still have no idea what KMS really does. In other words, I *cannot* imagine why disabling KMS is a bad thing, but I would very much like to know :)
[gentoo-user] Re: Any way to get real text console without killing X capability?
On 02/03/2011 08:07 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: Is there a way to have a real text console? I know that I can have 2 X sessions on tty10 and tty11 with different resolutions, and colour depths. Is there a way to set tty1..tty9 to 640x480 *IN TEXT MODE*, so that lat1-?? fonts would look normal, without killing the ability to have X run at 1920x1200? Note that the suggestion the others gave about disabling KMS is probably not what you need. Disabling KMS means that it will also be disabled for X11, not only for the framebuffer. As you can imagine this is a bad thing.
