Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org [14-04-14 17:23]: On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 05:20:12AM +0200, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote was updated and I installed Linux 3.12.17 (vanilla) and recompiled the nvidia-drivers and finally the X11-modules, a really annoying thing happened: When a program uses the screen overlay technique (right word???) to display (mainly) videos (me-tv, flashplayer, Blender while rendering) ANY and everything on any desktop, which has a black background (mutt, urxvt to only name a few) displays the video even the video application runs on a different desktop. Handling the desktops then becomes a masterpieces of focus and counting ;) I am using openbox, nvidia-drivers, linux 3.12.17 vanilla, me-tv, flashplayer, blender (daily build taken from blenders buildbot). What can I do to get rid of this effect? This seems to be a common problem with nvidia video cards using the nvidia binary blobs. I ran into it some time ago. If you don't want to get rid of the nvidia card, try the Nouveau open-source drivers. You won't get all the acceleration that the Nvidia binaries provide, but at least you probably won't get the problems you have now. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications Hi, after a reasonable count of up- and downgrades of a handful of software and drivers I sorted out x11-base/xorg-server-1.15.0 that causes the problems. Everything is now at the newest state. After downgrading to x11-base/xorg-server-1.14.5 and its modules everything works fine again. Only mentioned, everyone else searches here for the same and got the impression it is better to buy a new card / new PC / other OS. Best regards, mcc
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
On Monday 14 Apr 2014 15:35:00 Alan McKinnon wrote: The nvidia blobs do work well as long as you use them the way they were intended to be used. The way they were intended to be used is the same way Windows uses them, the Linux and Windows drivers share the bulk of the internal code and Linux feature set most definitely is not the driving force here :-) Which means some awesome things the X server can do simply do not work with the blob. The blob also rips out most of the OpenGL and framebuffer code and replaces it with it's own mysterious black magic, this can add more wrinkles. And finally, the Nvidia blob is not at all integrated with the kernel in any meaningful way, so your running kernel usually ends up 2-4 versions behind current. Would I be wrong to deduce from this that I would be better off with Radeon cards instead of moving to NVidia? Out of coincidence I have been using Radeon for ever it seems and I have had no problem that I recall with the free radeon drivers. No need to align suitable kernel versions with new video card drivers, or skip any driver versions, or much else. The only thing that I had to think about was how to sort out suitable firmware, but even this was relatively easy. Many people slate Radeon cards and this had me thinking that I should consciously make an effort to buy NVidia, but I am not as sure at this moment in time that this would not bring more problems than its worth? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
On 15/04/2014 09:14, Mick wrote: On Monday 14 Apr 2014 15:35:00 Alan McKinnon wrote: The nvidia blobs do work well as long as you use them the way they were intended to be used. The way they were intended to be used is the same way Windows uses them, the Linux and Windows drivers share the bulk of the internal code and Linux feature set most definitely is not the driving force here :-) Which means some awesome things the X server can do simply do not work with the blob. The blob also rips out most of the OpenGL and framebuffer code and replaces it with it's own mysterious black magic, this can add more wrinkles. And finally, the Nvidia blob is not at all integrated with the kernel in any meaningful way, so your running kernel usually ends up 2-4 versions behind current. Would I be wrong to deduce from this that I would be better off with Radeon cards instead of moving to NVidia? Out of coincidence I have been using Radeon for ever it seems and I have had no problem that I recall with the free radeon drivers. No need to align suitable kernel versions with new video card drivers, or skip any driver versions, or much else. The only thing that I had to think about was how to sort out suitable firmware, but even this was relatively easy. Many people slate Radeon cards and this had me thinking that I should consciously make an effort to buy NVidia, but I am not as sure at this moment in time that this would not bring more problems than its worth? Would you be better off with a Toyota or a Nissan? Same answer: I don't see much difference. Both work, both have free and blob drivers, both are better at some things and worse at others. I really don't see any clear cut reason to choose one over the other for the general case. Never mind that some people will not touch one or the other with a barge pole no matter how much you pay them, I think they just have human bias. I've used both over the years, with free and blob drivers, and they always did what I need them to do - display a desktop and play movies. There will always be cases where some specific range of GPU and/or drivers just isn't up to snuff but I don't think that applies overall. You should go with the option that maximizes your own personal warm and fuzzy feelings :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com [14-04-15 17:33]: On 15/04/2014 09:14, Mick wrote: On Monday 14 Apr 2014 15:35:00 Alan McKinnon wrote: The nvidia blobs do work well as long as you use them the way they were intended to be used. The way they were intended to be used is the same way Windows uses them, the Linux and Windows drivers share the bulk of the internal code and Linux feature set most definitely is not the driving force here :-) Which means some awesome things the X server can do simply do not work with the blob. The blob also rips out most of the OpenGL and framebuffer code and replaces it with it's own mysterious black magic, this can add more wrinkles. And finally, the Nvidia blob is not at all integrated with the kernel in any meaningful way, so your running kernel usually ends up 2-4 versions behind current. Would I be wrong to deduce from this that I would be better off with Radeon cards instead of moving to NVidia? Out of coincidence I have been using Radeon for ever it seems and I have had no problem that I recall with the free radeon drivers. No need to align suitable kernel versions with new video card drivers, or skip any driver versions, or much else. The only thing that I had to think about was how to sort out suitable firmware, but even this was relatively easy. Many people slate Radeon cards and this had me thinking that I should consciously make an effort to buy NVidia, but I am not as sure at this moment in time that this would not bring more problems than its worth? Would you be better off with a Toyota or a Nissan? Same answer: I don't see much difference. Both work, both have free and blob drivers, both are better at some things and worse at others. I really don't see any clear cut reason to choose one over the other for the general case. Never mind that some people will not touch one or the other with a barge pole no matter how much you pay them, I think they just have human bias. I've used both over the years, with free and blob drivers, and they always did what I need them to do - display a desktop and play movies. There will always be cases where some specific range of GPU and/or drivers just isn't up to snuff but I don't think that applies overall. You should go with the option that maximizes your own personal warm and fuzzy feelings :-) -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com To exegrate the whole discussion: Help! I have a problem with Linux! ...I have some heard of Linux...bad things...use windows instead! So: Due to the already mentioned reasons I cannot use other hardware/ other software. I need to get THIS running. Next question: How can I downgrade to the previous version of nvidia-drivers/nvidia-settings/nvidia-cude-toolkit, which works nice for me? Best regards, mcc
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
Alan McKinnon wrote: Would you be better off with a Toyota or a Nissan? Same answer: I don't see much difference. Both work, both have free and blob drivers, both are better at some things and worse at others. I really don't see any clear cut reason to choose one over the other for the general case. Never mind that some people will not touch one or the other with a barge pole no matter how much you pay them, I think they just have human bias. I've used both over the years, with free and blob drivers, and they always did what I need them to do - display a desktop and play movies. There will always be cases where some specific range of GPU and/or drivers just isn't up to snuff but I don't think that applies overall. You should go with the option that maximizes your own personal warm and fuzzy feelings :-) Many years ago, this question would have had a clear cut answer because ATI drivers was tricky at the very least. I have a ATI card in a drawer but never set up a GUI on it. I used it for a install once and swapped to Nvidia when the Nvidia card came in. I was in a console while using ATI. While I have never set up a ATI card, I have read where folks claim it is no harder than setting up a Nvidia card. So, many years ago, most would likely point you to a Nvidia card. Nowadays, get the card that best suites your needs and budget and install it. I would predict that short of just having bad luck and getting a card that has awful support, you have as good a odds with one as the other. Basically, +1 to what Alan said. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 17:59:19 +0200 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com [14-04-15 17:33]: To exegrate the whole discussion: Help! I have a problem with Linux! ...I have some heard of Linux...bad things...use windows instead! So: Due to the already mentioned reasons I cannot use other hardware/ other software. I need to get THIS running. Next question: How can I downgrade to the previous version of nvidia-drivers/nvidia-settings/nvidia-cude-toolkit, which works nice for me? Put the version you don't want in /etc/portage/package.mask; see `man portage` for details, but for example if you don't want 337.12 or newer, you would do something like this: /etc/portage/package.mask: =x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-337.12 Then doing `emerge -u x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers` will downgrade it. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org [14-04-15 19:36]: On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 17:59:19 +0200 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com [14-04-15 17:33]: To exegrate the whole discussion: Help! I have a problem with Linux! ...I have some heard of Linux...bad things...use windows instead! So: Due to the already mentioned reasons I cannot use other hardware/ other software. I need to get THIS running. Next question: How can I downgrade to the previous version of nvidia-drivers/nvidia-settings/nvidia-cude-toolkit, which works nice for me? Put the version you don't want in /etc/portage/package.mask; see `man portage` for details, but for example if you don't want 337.12 or newer, you would do something like this: /etc/portage/package.mask: =x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-337.12 Then doing `emerge -u x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers` will downgrade it. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D ...problem here is, that the emerge process already killed all ebuilds except the newest one of nvidie-cuda-toolkit and nvidia-settings... And the emerge detects a mismatch between the nvidia-drivers to downgrade and the (still newest) nvidie-cuda-toolkit and nvidia-settings and refuses to do anything... lost? Best regards, mcc
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 19:39:09 +0200 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org [14-04-15 19:36]: On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 17:59:19 +0200 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com [14-04-15 17:33]: To exegrate the whole discussion: Help! I have a problem with Linux! ...I have some heard of Linux...bad things...use windows instead! So: Due to the already mentioned reasons I cannot use other hardware/ other software. I need to get THIS running. Next question: How can I downgrade to the previous version of nvidia-drivers/nvidia-settings/nvidia-cude-toolkit, which works nice for me? Put the version you don't want in /etc/portage/package.mask; see `man portage` for details, but for example if you don't want 337.12 or newer, you would do something like this: /etc/portage/package.mask: =x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-337.12 Then doing `emerge -u x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers` will downgrade it. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D ...problem here is, that the emerge process already killed all ebuilds except the newest one of nvidie-cuda-toolkit and nvidia-settings... There is a nvidia-settings in nvidia-drivers already; as for nvidia-cuda-toolkit, there are two versions available: $ cd /usr/portage/dev-util/nvidia-cuda-toolkit/; ls *.ebuild nvidia-cuda-toolkit-4.2.9-r2.ebuild nvidia-cuda-toolkit-5.5.22.ebuild They are both stable. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
On Tuesday 15 Apr 2014 18:39:09 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org [14-04-15 19:36]: On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 17:59:19 +0200 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com [14-04-15 17:33]: To exegrate the whole discussion: Help! I have a problem with Linux! ...I have some heard of Linux...bad things...use windows instead! So: Due to the already mentioned reasons I cannot use other hardware/ other software. I need to get THIS running. Next question: How can I downgrade to the previous version of nvidia-drivers/nvidia-settings/nvidia-cude-toolkit, which works nice for me? Put the version you don't want in /etc/portage/package.mask; see `man portage` for details, but for example if you don't want 337.12 or newer, you would do something like this: /etc/portage/package.mask: =x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-337.12 Then doing `emerge -u x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers` will downgrade it. ...problem here is, that the emerge process already killed all ebuilds except the newest one of nvidie-cuda-toolkit and nvidia-settings... And the emerge detects a mismatch between the nvidia-drivers to downgrade and the (still newest) nvidie-cuda-toolkit and nvidia-settings and refuses to do anything... lost? You can find your way back, even if portage has removed previous versions. Check portage ebuilds here: http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/x11-drivers/ or use subversion to pull in the one you need. Then set it up in your local overlay, run 'ebuild ebuild_file manifest' and emerge it. As long as it does not have any dependencies which are no longer available you should be OK. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 05:20:12AM +0200, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote was updated and I installed Linux 3.12.17 (vanilla) and recompiled the nvidia-drivers and finally the X11-modules, a really annoying thing happened: When a program uses the screen overlay technique (right word???) to display (mainly) videos (me-tv, flashplayer, Blender while rendering) ANY and everything on any desktop, which has a black background (mutt, urxvt to only name a few) displays the video even the video application runs on a different desktop. Handling the desktops then becomes a masterpieces of focus and counting ;) I am using openbox, nvidia-drivers, linux 3.12.17 vanilla, me-tv, flashplayer, blender (daily build taken from blenders buildbot). What can I do to get rid of this effect? This seems to be a common problem with nvidia video cards using the nvidia binary blobs. I ran into it some time ago. If you don't want to get rid of the nvidia card, try the Nouveau open-source drivers. You won't get all the acceleration that the Nvidia binaries provide, but at least you probably won't get the problems you have now. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
On 14/04/2014 15:50, Walter Dnes wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 05:20:12AM +0200, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote was updated and I installed Linux 3.12.17 (vanilla) and recompiled the nvidia-drivers and finally the X11-modules, a really annoying thing happened: When a program uses the screen overlay technique (right word???) to display (mainly) videos (me-tv, flashplayer, Blender while rendering) ANY and everything on any desktop, which has a black background (mutt, urxvt to only name a few) displays the video even the video application runs on a different desktop. Handling the desktops then becomes a masterpieces of focus and counting ;) I am using openbox, nvidia-drivers, linux 3.12.17 vanilla, me-tv, flashplayer, blender (daily build taken from blenders buildbot). What can I do to get rid of this effect? This seems to be a common problem with nvidia video cards using the nvidia binary blobs. I ran into it some time ago. If you don't want to get rid of the nvidia card, try the Nouveau open-source drivers. You won't get all the acceleration that the Nvidia binaries provide, but at least you probably won't get the problems you have now. +1 to this The nvidia blobs do work well as long as you use them the way they were intended to be used. The way they were intended to be used is the same way Windows uses them, the Linux and Windows drivers share the bulk of the internal code and Linux feature set most definitely is not the driving force here :-) Which means some awesome things the X server can do simply do not work with the blob. The blob also rips out most of the OpenGL and framebuffer code and replaces it with it's own mysterious black magic, this can add more wrinkles. And finally, the Nvidia blob is not at all integrated with the kernel in any meaningful way, so your running kernel usually ends up 2-4 versions behind current. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com [14-04-14 17:23]: On 14/04/2014 15:50, Walter Dnes wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 05:20:12AM +0200, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote was updated and I installed Linux 3.12.17 (vanilla) and recompiled the nvidia-drivers and finally the X11-modules, a really annoying thing happened: When a program uses the screen overlay technique (right word???) to display (mainly) videos (me-tv, flashplayer, Blender while rendering) ANY and everything on any desktop, which has a black background (mutt, urxvt to only name a few) displays the video even the video application runs on a different desktop. Handling the desktops then becomes a masterpieces of focus and counting ;) I am using openbox, nvidia-drivers, linux 3.12.17 vanilla, me-tv, flashplayer, blender (daily build taken from blenders buildbot). What can I do to get rid of this effect? This seems to be a common problem with nvidia video cards using the nvidia binary blobs. I ran into it some time ago. If you don't want to get rid of the nvidia card, try the Nouveau open-source drivers. You won't get all the acceleration that the Nvidia binaries provide, but at least you probably won't get the problems you have now. +1 to this The nvidia blobs do work well as long as you use them the way they were intended to be used. The way they were intended to be used is the same way Windows uses them, the Linux and Windows drivers share the bulk of the internal code and Linux feature set most definitely is not the driving force here :-) Which means some awesome things the X server can do simply do not work with the blob. The blob also rips out most of the OpenGL and framebuffer code and replaces it with it's own mysterious black magic, this can add more wrinkles. And finally, the Nvidia blob is not at all integrated with the kernel in any meaningful way, so your running kernel usually ends up 2-4 versions behind current. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com Hi, thanks for the advice. Sine Blender is heavily using CUDA and the nvidia card to render (cycles), I have to use nvidia-drivers, nvidia-settings and the nvidia-cuda-toolkit. So I want to step back one release of the drivers, because that had worked fine for me. Older ebuilds fo nvidia-drivers are provided...but why all older ebuilds except for the newest one of nvidia-settings and nvidia-cuda-toolkit are wiped off my harddisc as soon I have upgraded to a (for me) not wirking nvidia-driver-ebuild? Any chance to go back or ma I urged to live with described features or to quit blender and use the noveau-drivers? Best regards, mcc
[gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
Hi, after the mesa-compile failure could be fixed and this: * * The following 7 packages have failed to build or install: * * (media-libs/mesa-10.0.4::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge), Log file: * '/var/tmp/portage/media-libs/mesa-10.0.4/temp/build.log' * (virtual/glu-9.0-r1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) * (x11-base/xorg-server-1.15.0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) * (virtual/opengl-7.0-r1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) * (media-libs/freeglut-2.8.1-r1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) * (media-libs/glu-9.0.0-r1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) * (media-libs/xine-lib-1.2.5::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) (this is pasted from my mail reporting the compilation problem...so all that does recompile fine and was updated) was updated and I installed Linux 3.12.17 (vanilla) and recompiled the nvidia-drivers and finally the X11-modules, a really annoying thing happened: When a program uses the screen overlay technique (right word???) to display (mainly) videos (me-tv, flashplayer, Blender while rendering) ANY and everything on any desktop, which has a black background (mutt, urxvt to only name a few) displays the video even the video application runs on a different desktop. Handling the desktops then becomes a masterpieces of focus and counting ;) I am using openbox, nvidia-drivers, linux 3.12.17 vanilla, me-tv, flashplayer, blender (daily build taken from blenders buildbot). What can I do to get rid of this effect? Best regards, mcc
