Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
On Monday 04 October 2010 03:00:10 Renat Golubchyk wrote: On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:32:57 +0100 Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: On Saturday 02 October 2010 10:06:05 Renat Golubchyk wrote: Probleme kann man niemals mit derselben Denkweise loesen, durch die sie entstanden sind. Please translate into English - thanks. We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. Which is pretty apt, because the nested table with 99% width doesn't reflect best practice in web design these days ... -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
On Monday 04 October 2010 03:00:10 Renat Golubchyk wrote: On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:32:57 +0100 Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: On Saturday 02 October 2010 10:06:05 Renat Golubchyk wrote: Probleme kann man niemals mit derselben Denkweise loesen, durch die sie entstanden sind. Please translate into English - thanks. We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. Thank you. -- Rgds Peter. Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Renat Golubchyk ragerm...@gmx.net wrote:
Unfortunately Gentoo documentation uses table layout instead of
relying entirely on CSS. Therefore it is not easy to make the docs
beautiful for everybody right now. But there is a simple workaround
which you may find good enough. Add the following CSS rule into your
~/.mozilla/...your profile.../chrome/userContent.css or install the
Stylish add-on [3] and create a style with the rule:
-
@namespace url(http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml);
@-moz-document domain(gentoo.org) {
td.content p {
width: 40em;
}
}
-
Change 40em to anything you like.
Thank you very much for this tip. I use chromium and fortunately there
exists the Stylish chrome extension. I got it working with the code
you gave by just snipping the moz-document line.
When I inspect the element and check the page source I understand
where td.content and p comes from but could you explain what 'em'
suffix to 40 means please?
--
Fatih
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
2010/10/4 Fatih Tümen fthtmn+gen...@gmail.com fthtmn%2bgen...@gmail.com
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Renat Golubchyk ragerm...@gmx.net wrote:
Unfortunately Gentoo documentation uses table layout instead of
relying entirely on CSS. Therefore it is not easy to make the docs
beautiful for everybody right now. But there is a simple workaround
which you may find good enough. Add the following CSS rule into your
~/.mozilla/...your profile.../chrome/userContent.css or install the
Stylish add-on [3] and create a style with the rule:
-
@namespace url(http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml);
@-moz-document domain(gentoo.org) {
td.content p {
width: 40em;
}
}
-
Change 40em to anything you like.
Thank you very much for this tip. I use chromium and fortunately there
exists the Stylish chrome extension. I got it working with the code
you gave by just snipping the moz-document line.
When I inspect the element and check the page source I understand
where td.content and p comes from but could you explain what 'em'
suffix to 40 means please?
--
Fatih
The em is just a length measurement.
You can read more about it here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/syndata.html#length-units
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Derek Tracy trac...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/10/4 Fatih Tümen fthtmn+gen...@gmail.com
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Renat Golubchyk ragerm...@gmx.net wrote:
Unfortunately Gentoo documentation uses table layout instead of
relying entirely on CSS. Therefore it is not easy to make the docs
beautiful for everybody right now. But there is a simple workaround
which you may find good enough. Add the following CSS rule into your
~/.mozilla/...your profile.../chrome/userContent.css or install the
Stylish add-on [3] and create a style with the rule:
-
@namespace url(http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml);
@-moz-document domain(gentoo.org) {
td.content p {
width: 40em;
}
}
-
Change 40em to anything you like.
Thank you very much for this tip. I use chromium and fortunately there
exists the Stylish chrome extension. I got it working with the code
you gave by just snipping the moz-document line.
When I inspect the element and check the page source I understand
where td.content and p comes from but could you explain what 'em'
suffix to 40 means please?
--
Fatih
The em is just a length measurement.
You can read more about it here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/syndata.html#length-units
Thank you Grant and Derek.
--
Fatih
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
On Saturday 02 October 2010 10:06:05 Renat Golubchyk wrote: Probleme kann man niemals mit derselben Denkweise loesen, durch die sie entstanden sind. Please translate into English - thanks. -- Rgds Peter. Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 18:32:57 +0100 Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: On Saturday 02 October 2010 10:06:05 Renat Golubchyk wrote: Probleme kann man niemals mit derselben Denkweise loesen, durch die sie entstanden sind. Please translate into English - thanks. We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. -- Probleme kann man niemals mit derselben Denkweise loesen, durch die sie entstanden sind. (Einstein) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 03:16:24 +0100 Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: On 1 Oct 2010, at 23:18, Renat Golubchyk wrote: On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:13:24 + (UTC) Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote: I've noticed recently that the Gentoo handbook web pages are ridiculously wide. (It seems to me that they didn't used to be, but I wouldn't swear to that). As fas as I can remember they've always been that wide. I'm sure you're mistaken. May be. But PDF files that I printed in 2006 for offline reference surely look the same to me as they do if I print them now. Comparing printable page with online version I can't see any code that would limit the text width. Take a look at old Gentoo docs with Wayback Machine. They look now exactly the same way as they did 8 years ago. Cheers, Renat -- Probleme kann man niemals mit derselben Denkweise loesen, durch die sie entstanden sind. (Einstein) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
Hi!
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:13:24 + (UTC) Grant Edwards
grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote:
I've noticed recently that the Gentoo handbook web pages are
ridiculously wide. (It seems to me that they didn't used to be, but I
wouldn't swear to that).
As fas as I can remember they've always been that wide. Anyway, since
Gentoo uses [1] GuideXML [2] for their documentation which gets
transformed into HTML you won't be able to provide a fix if you don't
know what XSLT rules the converter uses for transformation.
Unfortunately Gentoo documentation uses table layout instead of
relying entirely on CSS. Therefore it is not easy to make the docs
beautiful for everybody right now. But there is a simple workaround
which you may find good enough. Add the following CSS rule into your
~/.mozilla/...your profile.../chrome/userContent.css or install the
Stylish add-on [3] and create a style with the rule:
-
@namespace url(http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml);
@-moz-document domain(gentoo.org) {
td.content p {
width: 40em;
}
}
-
Change 40em to anything you like.
Cheers,
Renat
[1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/site.xml
[2] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/xml-guide.xml
[3] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2108/
--
Probleme kann man niemals mit derselben Denkweise loesen,
durch die sie entstanden sind.
(Einstein)
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
On 1 Oct 2010, at 23:18, Renat Golubchyk wrote: On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:13:24 + (UTC) Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote: I've noticed recently that the Gentoo handbook web pages are ridiculously wide. (It seems to me that they didn't used to be, but I wouldn't swear to that). As fas as I can remember they've always been that wide. I'm sure you're mistaken. Stroller.
[gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
I've noticed recently that the Gentoo handbook web pages are ridiculously wide. (It seems to me that they didn't used to be, but I wouldn't swear to that). For example, look at this page: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/handbook/?part=1chap=2 The normal text paragraphs have lines that average over 160 characters per line. The generally accepted guideline for line length in order to maintain good readability is 40-80. The above page's lines are 2-4 times as long as recommended for good readability, and they are in fact so long that I can't make my browser wide enough to see an entire line. Line lengths that long make the pages hard to read even if you _can_ make your browser wide enough to show an entire line. The regular handbook is a little better: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?full=1 That has lines that average about 140 characters. That's still much longer than what I'd consider good practice. Do the extremely long lines in the handbook web pages bother anybody else? I can understand that things like example code blocks or sample command input/output blocks might need to be wide enough to require horizontal scrolling of a browser window, but normal text paragraphs with 160 characters per line? -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! Is this going to at involve RAW human ecstasy? gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
On Thursday 30 September 2010, Grant Edwards wrote: That has lines that average about 140 characters. That's still much longer than what I'd consider good practice. I am counting 105. Do the extremely long lines in the handbook web pages bother anybody else? not me. Not with konqueror.
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote: I can understand that things like example code blocks or sample command input/output blocks might need to be wide enough to require horizontal scrolling of a browser window, but normal text paragraphs with 160 characters per line? I'm not seeing a problem here. Sure, the lines are long but my screen is large and my resolution is high. A quick play with firefox and konq shows that the text reformats itself quite elegantly when you resize your browser window to say, 2/3 of screen width. I think that's a better solution than imposing some arbitrary line length on everyone no matter their screen size and resolution. D -- Support the mob or mysteriously disappear... I'm on flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/badcomputer/
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
Hi Grant, I can only confirm this. Long lines are difficult to focus, so they are tiresome to read. For this reason typical newspapers have small columns. Personally I even prefer to read ebooks on the very small display of a mobile phone. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 10:13 AM, Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote: I've noticed recently that the Gentoo handbook web pages are ridiculously wide. (It seems to me that they didn't used to be, but I wouldn't swear to that). For example, look at this page: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/handbook/?part=1chap=2 I'll admit that a couple of times I've found this frustrating but not enough that I'd ask anyone to change things. I think the frustration, candidly, is that the web page programming doesn't allow me to narrow the page as much as I might like and still read the text. Sometimes I just want the browser to cover 1/2 the screen, so that might be 600 pixels or so. Or maybe this is a Firefox thing, not sure. Anyway, I understand your point. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 10:13 AM, Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote: I've noticed recently that the Gentoo handbook web pages are ridiculously wide. (It seems to me that they didn't used to be, but I wouldn't swear to that). For example, look at this page: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/handbook/?part=1chap=2 I'll admit that a couple of times I've found this frustrating but not enough that I'd ask anyone to change things. I think the frustration, candidly, is that the web page programming doesn't allow me to narrow the page as much as I might like and still read the text. Sometimes I just want the browser to cover 1/2 the screen, so that might be 600 pixels or so. Or maybe this is a Firefox thing, not sure. Anyway, I understand your point. - Mark OK, well this is getting weird because that is exactly the behavior I am seeing from both firefox and konqueror...it would appear I'm the only one? To be absolutely clear: When I resize the windows the text reformats itself on the fly from wide short paragraphs to narrow long paragraphs. No horizontal scroll bar which I agree is beyond annoying. This is the behavior I see from pretty much all well-designed web pages, and I rather thought it was default. D -- Support the mob or mysteriously disappear... I'm on flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/badcomputer/
Re: [gentoo-user] ridiculously wide handbook pages
They're readable even on my droid x. On Sep 30, 2010 1:15 PM, Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote: I've noticed recently that the Gentoo handbook web pages are ridiculously wide. (It seems to me that they didn't used to be, but I wouldn't swear to that). For example, look at this page: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/handbook/?part=1chap=2 The normal text paragraphs have lines that average over 160 characters per line. The generally accepted guideline for line length in order to maintain good readability is 40-80. The above page's lines are 2-4 times as long as recommended for good readability, and they are in fact so long that I can't make my browser wide enough to see an entire line. Line lengths that long make the pages hard to read even if you _can_ make your browser wide enough to show an entire line. The regular handbook is a little better: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?full=1 That has lines that average about 140 characters. That's still much longer than what I'd consider good practice. Do the extremely long lines in the handbook web pages bother anybody else? I can understand that things like example code blocks or sample command input/output blocks might need to be wide enough to require horizontal scrolling of a browser window, but normal text paragraphs with 160 characters per line? -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! Is this going to at involve RAW human ecstasy? gmail.com
