Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge @system causing gcc downgrade

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 15:50:23 +, White, Phil wrote:

> As mentioned, I was careless with copying over /var from a previous
> install. The problem wasn't with the world file, but with the db/pkg
> lists. emerge -e did not immediately fix it. 

emerge -e @world would not have fixed it unless you emptied it first.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 00D: Window closed - Do not look outside


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Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge @system causing gcc downgrade

[White, Phil]

On 8 March 2017 at 11:29, Stroller  wrote:

>
> Could you `grep -i gcc /var/lib/portage/world*` please?
>
> A copy of the whole world file(s) would be great, in fact, ideally as
> plain text attachments.
>

Hi Stroller,
Thanks, (and apologies for the delay).
World file was empty at the time of the previous post - I was still working
on fixing @system.
As mentioned, I was careless with copying over /var from a previous
install. The problem wasn't with the world file, but with the db/pkg lists.
emerge -e did not immediately fix it. However, with patience and a few
continuous fixes, I now have @system back - and am currently waiting for my
previous world packages to finish. Hopefully by tomorrow morning, I should
be able to complete a depclean without issue...


> Also, any chance you could set your mailer to send only plain text emails
> to the list?
>

I wish! Sorry - until I have a 'proper' system working again, I am stuck
with webmail... :(

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Phil

Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge @system causing gcc downgrade

[Stroller]

> On 7 Mar 2017, at 16:14, White, Phil  wrote:
> 
> OK - talking this through is helping. I *have* done something strange here.
> The currently installed version is 4.9.4 (from gcc --version), except that 
> portage believes that 5.4.0 is installed.

Could you `grep -i gcc /var/lib/portage/world*` please?

A copy of the whole world file(s) would be great, in fact, ideally as plain 
text attachments.

Also, any chance you could set your mailer to send only plain text emails to 
the list?

Cheers,

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge @system causing gcc downgrade

[Dale]

White, Phil wrote:
> On 7 March 2017 at 19:38, Neil Bothwick  > wrote:
>
>
> Please don't top post, it is disliked on this list.
>
>
> Sorry - a consequence of moving away from a proper mail client, and on
> to a web-based thing.
>  
>
> If you copied over /var/db/pkg you have a rather confused and
> messed up
> system. The safest way to recreate it is probably to move the pkg
> directory elsewhere and then run "emerge -e @world".
>
>
> Yep! I think that would be a polite way of putting it! ;)
>  
>
> gcc is slotted, so emerging 4.9.4 will not touch your 5.4.0
> installation,
> you use gcc-config to choose which one to use. What does gcc-config -l
> show?
>
>
> Just the one line:
> [1] i686-pc-linux-gnu-4.9.4
>
> I *think*, that with little time and patience, I can now sort this out.
> Thanks for the emerge -e hint. It doesn't seem to be in the emerge man
> page, though. What is the long-option name?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Phil


Here ya go.

--emptytree (-e)
Reinstalls  target  atoms  and  their  entire  deep dependency tree, as
though no packages are currently installed. You should run this with
--pretend first to make sure the result is what you expect.
 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge @system causing gcc downgrade

[Alan McKinnon]

On 07/03/2017 22:00, White, Phil wrote:
> On 7 March 2017 at 19:38, Neil Bothwick  > wrote:
> 
> 
> Please don't top post, it is disliked on this list.
> 
> 
> Sorry - a consequence of moving away from a proper mail client, and on
> to a web-based thing.
>  
> 
> If you copied over /var/db/pkg you have a rather confused and messed up
> system. The safest way to recreate it is probably to move the pkg
> directory elsewhere and then run "emerge -e @world".
> 
> 
> Yep! I think that would be a polite way of putting it! ;)
>  
> 
> gcc is slotted, so emerging 4.9.4 will not touch your 5.4.0
> installation,
> you use gcc-config to choose which one to use. What does gcc-config -l
> show?
> 
> 
> Just the one line:
> [1] i686-pc-linux-gnu-4.9.4
> 
> I *think*, that with little time and patience, I can now sort this out.
> Thanks for the emerge -e hint. It doesn't seem to be in the emerge man
> page, though. What is the long-option name?


I'm too lazy to look it up myself and long ago stopping trying to
remember minutia, but search the man page for "empty". That's where it
is :-)



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge @system causing gcc downgrade

[White, Phil]

On 7 March 2017 at 19:38, Neil Bothwick  wrote:

>
> Please don't top post, it is disliked on this list.
>

Sorry - a consequence of moving away from a proper mail client, and on to a
web-based thing.


> If you copied over /var/db/pkg you have a rather confused and messed up
> system. The safest way to recreate it is probably to move the pkg
> directory elsewhere and then run "emerge -e @world".
>

Yep! I think that would be a polite way of putting it! ;)


> gcc is slotted, so emerging 4.9.4 will not touch your 5.4.0 installation,
> you use gcc-config to choose which one to use. What does gcc-config -l
> show?
>

Just the one line:
[1] i686-pc-linux-gnu-4.9.4

I *think*, that with little time and patience, I can now sort this out.
Thanks for the emerge -e hint. It doesn't seem to be in the emerge man
page, though. What is the long-option name?

Kind regards,

Phil

Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge @system causing gcc downgrade

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 16:14:26 +, White, Phil wrote:

> Hi Neil,

Please don't top post, it is disliked on this list.

> 
> Well, this is a new install.
> Used Stage3-i686-20170214.tar.bz2
> There is nothing in package.accept_keywords that is currently installed
> (as far as I know - although it is possible that I might have added
> ~x86 to gcc, although in this instance I don't believe that i did)
> I have installed some packages, but removed them also (been having
> problems with perl)
> So currently, updating @world is the same as @system
> 
> OK - talking this through is helping. I *have* done something strange
> here. The currently installed version is 4.9.4 (from gcc --version),
> except that portage believes that 5.4.0 is installed.
> My guess is that, since I am trying to rebuild an old system (due to a
> hard-drive fail), I have accidentally copied over files that do not
> belong. My guess is a completely useless /var/db/pkg/* is confusing the
> hell out of portage/emerge.

If you copied over /var/db/pkg you have a rather confused and messed up
system. The safest way to recreate it is probably to move the pkg
directory elsewhere and then run "emerge -e @world".

> So - any suggestions how to fix this mess?
> Bite the bullet, emerge gcc, and then do a depclean - or can I convince
> portage that gcc 4.9.4 is really here?

gcc is slotted, so emerging 4.9.4 will not touch your 5.4.0 installation,
you use gcc-config to choose which one to use. What does gcc-config -l
show?


> 
> Thanks,
> Phil
> 
> On 7 March 2017 at 15:38, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 15:07:32 +, White, Phil wrote:
> >  
> > > I have a new install of Gentoo.
> > > emerge -uDpv --newuse @system results in a new slot for gcc,
> > > *downgrading* the current version (from 5.4.0 to 4.9.4)
> > > No other package is selected for merging.  
> >
> > 4.9.4 is the latest stable. Are you running a stable system with some
> > packages in package.accept_keywords? If so, and you gave a specific
> > version of gcc, it is possible that version is no longer in the tree -
> > 5.4.0-r2 was recently removed.
> >
> > Use the ~ operator when specifying versions to allow for minor updates
> >
> > ~sys-devel/gcc-5.4.0
> >
> > or, in the case of gcc, you can specify a slot
> >
> > sys-devel/gcc:5.4.0
> >
> >
> > --
> > Neil Bothwick
> >
> > Despite the cost of living it remains popular.
> >  




-- 
Neil Bothwick

This message has been cruelly tested on sweet little furry animals.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge @system causing gcc downgrade

[White, Phil]

Hi Neil,

Well, this is a new install.
Used Stage3-i686-20170214.tar.bz2
There is nothing in package.accept_keywords that is currently installed (as
far as I know - although it is possible that I might have added ~x86 to
gcc, although in this instance I don't believe that i did)
I have installed some packages, but removed them also (been having problems
with perl)
So currently, updating @world is the same as @system

OK - talking this through is helping. I *have* done something strange here.
The currently installed version is 4.9.4 (from gcc --version), except that
portage believes that 5.4.0 is installed.
My guess is that, since I am trying to rebuild an old system (due to a
hard-drive fail), I have accidentally copied over files that do not belong.
My guess is a completely useless /var/db/pkg/* is confusing the hell out of
portage/emerge.

So - any suggestions how to fix this mess?
Bite the bullet, emerge gcc, and then do a depclean - or can I convince
portage that gcc 4.9.4 is really here?

Thanks,
Phil

On 7 March 2017 at 15:38, Neil Bothwick  wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 15:07:32 +, White, Phil wrote:
>
> > I have a new install of Gentoo.
> > emerge -uDpv --newuse @system results in a new slot for gcc,
> > *downgrading* the current version (from 5.4.0 to 4.9.4)
> > No other package is selected for merging.
>
> 4.9.4 is the latest stable. Are you running a stable system with some
> packages in package.accept_keywords? If so, and you gave a specific
> version of gcc, it is possible that version is no longer in the tree -
> 5.4.0-r2 was recently removed.
>
> Use the ~ operator when specifying versions to allow for minor updates
>
> ~sys-devel/gcc-5.4.0
>
> or, in the case of gcc, you can specify a slot
>
> sys-devel/gcc:5.4.0
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick
>
> Despite the cost of living it remains popular.
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge @system causing gcc downgrade

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 15:07:32 +, White, Phil wrote:

> I have a new install of Gentoo.
> emerge -uDpv --newuse @system results in a new slot for gcc,
> *downgrading* the current version (from 5.4.0 to 4.9.4)
> No other package is selected for merging.

4.9.4 is the latest stable. Are you running a stable system with some
packages in package.accept_keywords? If so, and you gave a specific
version of gcc, it is possible that version is no longer in the tree -
5.4.0-r2 was recently removed.

Use the ~ operator when specifying versions to allow for minor updates

~sys-devel/gcc-5.4.0

or, in the case of gcc, you can specify a slot

sys-devel/gcc:5.4.0


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Despite the cost of living it remains popular.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge @system causing gcc downgrade

[White, Phil]

Sorry Alan, that results in no extra information from emerge.
Still only gcc listed for installation - and nothing else.

--
Phil

On 7 March 2017 at 15:08, Alan McKinnon  wrote:

> On 07/03/2017 17:07, White, Phil wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm sorry. This is probably a really simple question.
> > I have a new install of Gentoo.
> > emerge -uDpv --newuse @system results in a new slot for gcc,
> > *downgrading* the current version (from 5.4.0 to 4.9.4)
> > No other package is selected for merging.
> >
> > Why??? What command line can I give to show why a new slot is being
> > pulled in?
> > (I wouldn't particularly mind, but as I am on an old x86 celeron, this
> > will take hours to complete, for no obvious benefit...)
> >
> > Thanks
> > Phil
> >
>
>
>
> Add -t option to the command
>
>
> --
> Alan McKinnon
> alan.mckin...@gmail.com
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge @system causing gcc downgrade

[Alan McKinnon]

On 07/03/2017 17:07, White, Phil wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm sorry. This is probably a really simple question.
> I have a new install of Gentoo.
> emerge -uDpv --newuse @system results in a new slot for gcc,
> *downgrading* the current version (from 5.4.0 to 4.9.4)
> No other package is selected for merging.
> 
> Why??? What command line can I give to show why a new slot is being
> pulled in?
> (I wouldn't particularly mind, but as I am on an old x86 celeron, this
> will take hours to complete, for no obvious benefit...)
> 
> Thanks
> Phil
> 



Add -t option to the command


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @system

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 30 August 2016 22:51:47 Mick wrote:
> On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 15:30:51 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 13:38:13 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 11:56:50 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 12:06:43 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > > > You should elaborate more and be specific on what you mean by "The
> > > > > reason is an intermittent series of apparently unrelated things
> > > > > going
> > > > > wrong."
> > > > 
> > > > Here's one then: In KMail (yes, I know*) the folder list contains an
> > > > item
> > > > "trash" (ugh!), but when I come to empty it it's called "Wastebin"
> > > > (much
> > > > better) in the drop-down menu.
> > > 
> > > Check your language/internationisation settings.
> > > The translations is from "kde-apps/kdepim-l10n"
> > 
> > I can't find anything wrong with those settings. Everything is set to
> > British English.
> > 
> > $ locale -a
> > C
> > en_GB
> > en_GB.iso88591
> > en_GB.iso885915
> > en_GB.utf8
> > POSIX
> > 
> > $ eselect locale list
> > 
> > Available targets for the LANG variable:
> >   [1]   C
> >   [2]   en_GB
> >   [3]   en_GB.iso88591
> >   [4]   en_GB.iso885915
> >   [5]   en_GB.utf8 *
> >   [6]   POSIX
> >   [ ]   (free form)
> 
> This is all OK.
> 
> > > > And another: if I move my user account away and create a new one,
> > > > setting KDE plasma up from scratch (this is ~amd64), the
> > > > system-settings
> > > > panel has no icons and the single-click-to-open preference is
> > > > ignored,
> > > > even though it's the default and I already have it set anyway. Then,
> > > > if
> > > > I revert to the original home directory, which has followed events
> > > > through the last six months, those faults disappear.
> > > 
> > > Hmm... not sure where this comes from
> > 
> > But this time, the single-click-to-open preference is still ignored.
> > 
> > You see, the system is behaving inconsistently - even irrationally at
> > times.
> The latest Konqueror (stable) update to 4.14.20 fixed the one click
> problem, as well as opening files within Konqueror itself, rather than
> opening a separate dolphin window.  Dolphin is still borked and behaves
> /irrationally/.  I hope the next update will fix that too.

Thanks to all who've helped. I've now just completed a rebuild from bare 
metal and everything seems fine at the moment.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @system

[Mick]

On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 15:30:51 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 13:38:13 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 11:56:50 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 12:06:43 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > > You should elaborate more and be specific on what you mean by "The
> > > > reason is an intermittent series of apparently unrelated things going
> > > > wrong."
> > > 
> > > Here's one then: In KMail (yes, I know*) the folder list contains an
> > > item
> > > "trash" (ugh!), but when I come to empty it it's called "Wastebin" (much
> > > better) in the drop-down menu.
> > 
> > Check your language/internationisation settings.
> > The translations is from "kde-apps/kdepim-l10n"
> 
> I can't find anything wrong with those settings. Everything is set to
> British English.
> 
> $ locale -a
> C
> en_GB
> en_GB.iso88591
> en_GB.iso885915
> en_GB.utf8
> POSIX
> 
> $ eselect locale list
> Available targets for the LANG variable:
>   [1]   C
>   [2]   en_GB
>   [3]   en_GB.iso88591
>   [4]   en_GB.iso885915
>   [5]   en_GB.utf8 *
>   [6]   POSIX
>   [ ]   (free form)

This is all OK.


> > > And another: if I move my user account away and create a new one,
> > > setting KDE plasma up from scratch (this is ~amd64), the system-settings
> > > panel has no icons and the single-click-to-open preference is ignored,
> > > even though it's the default and I already have it set anyway. Then, if
> > > I revert to the original home directory, which has followed events
> > > through the last six months, those faults disappear.
> > 
> > Hmm... not sure where this comes from
> 
> But this time, the single-click-to-open preference is still ignored.
> 
> You see, the system is behaving inconsistently - even irrationally at times.

The latest Konqueror (stable) update to 4.14.20 fixed the one click problem, as 
well as opening files within Konqueror itself, rather than opening a separate 
dolphin window.  Dolphin is still borked and behaves /irrationally/.  I hope 
the next update will fix that too.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @system

[Alan McKinnon]

On 30/08/2016 12:56, Peter Humphrey wrote:

On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 12:06:43 Alan McKinnon wrote:


You should elaborate more and be specific on what you mean by "The
reason is an intermittent series of apparently unrelated things going
wrong."


Here's one then: In KMail (yes, I know*) the folder list contains an item
"trash" (ugh!), but when I come to empty it it's called "Wastebin" (much
better) in the drop-down menu.

And another: if I move my user account away and create a new one, setting
KDE plasma up from scratch (this is ~amd64), the system-settings panel has
no icons and the single-click-to-open preference is ignored, even though
it's the default and I already have it set anyway. Then, if I revert to the
original home directory, which has followed events through the last six
months, those faults disappear.


How would @system possibly affect that?

True, in theory any software can have an influence on any other software 
and cause breakage; but with those symptoms you ought to be 
investigating @system last, not first


Your problems lie within KDE itself, I'd bet hard-earned money on that





Work the real problem, not an assumed one :-)


Of course - when I can find it! I'm just trying to ensure that the system is
clean before I go tilting at windmills. Possibly, I'm just seeing the
immaturity of KDE-5. So be it, if so.

* I've seen references to KMail 5.0.3 already Out There, so I'm sticking
with it in the hope that 5.* will be more solid.

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @system

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 13:38:13 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 11:56:50 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 12:06:43 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > You should elaborate more and be specific on what you mean by "The
> > > reason is an intermittent series of apparently unrelated things going
> > > wrong."
> > 
> > Here's one then: In KMail (yes, I know*) the folder list contains an
> > item
> > "trash" (ugh!), but when I come to empty it it's called "Wastebin" (much
> > better) in the drop-down menu.
> 
> Check your language/internationisation settings.
> The translations is from "kde-apps/kdepim-l10n"

I can't find anything wrong with those settings. Everything is set to 
British English.

$ locale -a
C
en_GB
en_GB.iso88591
en_GB.iso885915
en_GB.utf8
POSIX

$ eselect locale list
Available targets for the LANG variable:
  [1]   C
  [2]   en_GB
  [3]   en_GB.iso88591
  [4]   en_GB.iso885915
  [5]   en_GB.utf8 *
  [6]   POSIX
  [ ]   (free form)

> > And another: if I move my user account away and create a new one,
> > setting KDE plasma up from scratch (this is ~amd64), the system-settings
> > panel has no icons and the single-click-to-open preference is ignored,
> > even though it's the default and I already have it set anyway. Then, if
> > I revert to the original home directory, which has followed events
> > through the last six months, those faults disappear.
> 
> Hmm... not sure where this comes from

But this time, the single-click-to-open preference is still ignored.

You see, the system is behaving inconsistently - even irrationally at times.

--->8

> > * I've seen references to KMail 5.0.3 already Out There, so I'm sticking
> > with it in the hope that 5.* will be more solid.
> 
> I'm still using Kmail 4.x until Kmail 5 becomes unmasked...

As far as I can see, Kmail 5 isn't even in the tree yet.

> If you want a truly clean build:
> emerge -ae @system
> emerge -ae @world
> emerge -a --depclean
> 
> (That's what I did last time I had too many strange issues)

I've done that or similar many times over the last several weeks. I think 
I'm left with just one sensible option: to build a new system from scratch, 
complete with a new user account, not carrying anything but necessities over 
from the current system.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @system

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 11:56:50 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 12:06:43 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > You should elaborate more and be specific on what you mean by "The
> > reason is an intermittent series of apparently unrelated things going
> > wrong."
> 
> Here's one then: In KMail (yes, I know*) the folder list contains an item
> "trash" (ugh!), but when I come to empty it it's called "Wastebin" (much
> better) in the drop-down menu.

Check your language/internationisation settings.
The translations is from "kde-apps/kdepim-l10n"

> And another: if I move my user account away and create a new one, setting
> KDE plasma up from scratch (this is ~amd64), the system-settings panel has
> no icons and the single-click-to-open preference is ignored, even though
> it's the default and I already have it set anyway. Then, if I revert to the
> original home directory, which has followed events through the last six
> months, those faults disappear.

Hmm... not sure where this comes from

> > Work the real problem, not an assumed one :-)
> 
> Of course - when I can find it! I'm just trying to ensure that the system is
> clean before I go tilting at windmills. Possibly, I'm just seeing the
> immaturity of KDE-5. So be it, if so.

Could be...

> * I've seen references to KMail 5.0.3 already Out There, so I'm sticking
> with it in the hope that 5.* will be more solid.

I'm still using Kmail 4.x until Kmail 5 becomes unmasked...

If you want a truly clean build:
emerge -ae @system
emerge -ae @world
emerge -a --depclean

(That's what I did last time I had too many strange issues)

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @system

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 11:56:50 I wrote:
> On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 12:06:43 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > You should elaborate more and be specific on what you mean by "The
> > reason is an intermittent series of apparently unrelated things going
> > wrong."
> 
> Here's one then: In KMail (yes, I know) the folder list contains an item
> "trash" (ugh!), but when I come to empty it it's called "Wastebin" (much
> better) in the drop-down menu.
> 
> And another: if I move my user account away and create a new one, setting
> KDE plasma up from scratch (this is ~amd64), the system-settings panel has
> no icons and the single-click-to-open preference is ignored, even though
> it's the default and I already have it set anyway. Then, if I revert to
> the original home directory, which has followed events through the last
> six months, those faults disappear.

One more: I've just emerged sci-misc/boinc, and portage overwrote 
/etc/conf.d/boinc without asking for permission. I have  
/usr/share/applications/boincmgr-boinc.desktop in CONFIG_PROTECT; that was 
overwritten too.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @system

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 12:06:43 Alan McKinnon wrote:

> You should elaborate more and be specific on what you mean by "The
> reason is an intermittent series of apparently unrelated things going
> wrong."

Here's one then: In KMail (yes, I know*) the folder list contains an item 
"trash" (ugh!), but when I come to empty it it's called "Wastebin" (much 
better) in the drop-down menu.

And another: if I move my user account away and create a new one, setting 
KDE plasma up from scratch (this is ~amd64), the system-settings panel has 
no icons and the single-click-to-open preference is ignored, even though 
it's the default and I already have it set anyway. Then, if I revert to the 
original home directory, which has followed events through the last six 
months, those faults disappear.

> Work the real problem, not an assumed one :-)

Of course - when I can find it! I'm just trying to ensure that the system is 
clean before I go tilting at windmills. Possibly, I'm just seeing the 
immaturity of KDE-5. So be it, if so.

* I've seen references to KMail 5.0.3 already Out There, so I'm sticking 
with it in the hope that 5.* will be more solid.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @system

[Alan McKinnon]

On 30/08/2016 11:25, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 00:07:53 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
>> Don't forget that @system only lives in a context, and the context is a
>> real computer.
>>
>> Out of context it's just a list of strings. In context, it's strings
>> that means packages, with deps and everything else that needs to be
>> built for @system to mean anything on the machine it's added to.
>>
>> One never needs to define @system, that is already done in a profile so
>> it's not something that means sense to migrate or re-use elsewhere.
>> Don't worry about @system, worry about USE and get that right. Emerge
>> will deal with what it takes to give the user the @system he's really
>> asking for.
>>
>> Or maybe I don't completely understand yet Peter's actual question.
> 
> Hmm. I do seem to have a knack of not saying quite what I mean these days.
> 
> I want to define a minimal set to make sure the tool chain is correct and 
> free of faults, not just up to date, before doing anything else. Then I can 
> use that to build whatever other parts of the system I may be suspicious of. 
> I know that portage will work out a good order of battle, but it assumes 
> correctness in the tool chain: its job is to keep the system current. If 
> there is a problem in the tools, it's going to cause problems when the rest 
> of the system is built.
> 
> Quite a while ago I came across some advice to emerge gcc first, then glibc 
> and libtool, then whatever else is needed (@system, @world etc). I've been 
> doing that, but it does seem a bit minimal. That's why I thought of this 
> sysbase idea.
> 
> You may wonder why I suspect my system at all. The reason is an intermittent 
> series of apparently unrelated things going wrong. This box is only six 
> months old and it contains some very recent hardware, and I'm not quite 
> convinced that I have everything set up just right.
> 

You have been given silly advice because things just do not work that
way. The set you want is @system.

It looks like you want to guarantee that portage's tools are 100%
correct so that portage can be assured it is using good stuff. But the
tool that you use to build those tools and get them correct is portage
itself :-)

There are only 3 ways to get a new improved toolchain:

- use a stage 3 which provides one
- use a stage 1 and do the whole thing by hand
- use portage

There's nothing wrong with using #3. Portage doesn't use the toolchain
much to get things going as it's python. As long as you have a decent
working python you are pretty much good to go. Of course it may use the
existing toolchain to rebuild the toolchain so you need to have a
toolchain first - which you get from a stage 1 or stage 3.

In any event, it's not just a case of building gcc - to get the latest
version portage needs curl, wget, zlib, tar and a bucket load of other
stuff t even fetch the code. Then it needs autotools and everything else
make uses to build it.

So really you are trying to fix a suspect system by rebuilding a good
system using the suspect system. And that just ain't never gonna work.
Maybe in some other universe, but not this one.

Just rebuild @system and let portage do it's thing - the result you will
get is exactly the same you will have after you update all of world, and
that is the toolchain you will use forever more. Any and all advice you
stumble across about rebuilding gcc and glibc and stuff is nonsense,
backwards and going the wrong way.


You should elaborate more and be specific on what you mean by "The
reason is an intermittent series of apparently unrelated things going
wrong."

Work the real problem, not an assumed one :-)


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @system

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 30 Aug 2016 00:07:53 Alan McKinnon wrote:

> Don't forget that @system only lives in a context, and the context is a
> real computer.
> 
> Out of context it's just a list of strings. In context, it's strings
> that means packages, with deps and everything else that needs to be
> built for @system to mean anything on the machine it's added to.
> 
> One never needs to define @system, that is already done in a profile so
> it's not something that means sense to migrate or re-use elsewhere.
> Don't worry about @system, worry about USE and get that right. Emerge
> will deal with what it takes to give the user the @system he's really
> asking for.
> 
> Or maybe I don't completely understand yet Peter's actual question.

Hmm. I do seem to have a knack of not saying quite what I mean these days.

I want to define a minimal set to make sure the tool chain is correct and 
free of faults, not just up to date, before doing anything else. Then I can 
use that to build whatever other parts of the system I may be suspicious of. 
I know that portage will work out a good order of battle, but it assumes 
correctness in the tool chain: its job is to keep the system current. If 
there is a problem in the tools, it's going to cause problems when the rest 
of the system is built.

Quite a while ago I came across some advice to emerge gcc first, then glibc 
and libtool, then whatever else is needed (@system, @world etc). I've been 
doing that, but it does seem a bit minimal. That's why I thought of this 
sysbase idea.

You may wonder why I suspect my system at all. The reason is an intermittent 
series of apparently unrelated things going wrong. This box is only six 
months old and it contains some very recent hardware, and I'm not quite 
convinced that I have everything set up just right.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @system

[Alan McKinnon]

On 29/08/2016 21:08, Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Mon, 29 Aug 2016 17:04:08 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:


I remember someone (Dale?) some time ago being dismayed at the large
number of packages that would be installed by emerge @system.

Now I see what he meant: on this box 401 of the 1103 installed
packages. I'd like to construct a set that would create a reliable
basis for building the rest of @system and @world.

I have a small rescue system on the same disk, also ~amd64, which
doesn't have X or any desktop programs but otherwise is configured for
the same setup. Would it be sensible to use the 44 packages in that
@system as a new set @sysbase on the main system, or would I miss
something important?


Surely the addition of X, and maybe kde or gnome, to your USE flags is
what is causing so many packages to be pulled in by @system.

I found something similar when building a new system recently, @system
pulled in X and a shedload of dependencies. Switching to a non-desktop
profile meant far fewer packages were needed to get a basic system.




Don't forget that @system only lives in a context, and the context is a 
real computer.


Out of context it's just a list of strings. In context, it's strings 
that means packages, with deps and everything else that needs to be 
built for @system to mean anything on the machine it's added to.


One never needs to define @system, that is already done in a profile so 
it's not something that means sense to migrate or re-use elsewhere. 
Don't worry about @system, worry about USE and get that right. Emerge 
will deal with what it takes to give the user the @system he's really 
asking for.


Or maybe I don't completely understand yet Peter's actual question.

Alan

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge @system

[Neil Bothwick]

On Mon, 29 Aug 2016 17:04:08 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> I remember someone (Dale?) some time ago being dismayed at the large
> number of packages that would be installed by emerge @system.
> 
> Now I see what he meant: on this box 401 of the 1103 installed
> packages. I'd like to construct a set that would create a reliable
> basis for building the rest of @system and @world.
> 
> I have a small rescue system on the same disk, also ~amd64, which
> doesn't have X or any desktop programs but otherwise is configured for
> the same setup. Would it be sensible to use the 44 packages in that
> @system as a new set @sysbase on the main system, or would I miss
> something important?

Surely the addition of X, and maybe kde or gnome, to your USE flags is
what is causing so many packages to be pulled in by @system.

I found something similar when building a new system recently, @system
pulled in X and a shedload of dependencies. Switching to a non-desktop
profile meant far fewer packages were needed to get a basic system.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Walk softly and carry a fully charged phazer.


pgpFtOmmLMPfI.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge system fails on libperl

[Zac Medico]

Michael Haan wrote:
 Trying to do a new install on an x86.  Got to the step emerge
 --emptytree system and it bombs on emerging libperl.  Something about
 % not being in the target string.  Does this sound familiar to
 someone, or do I need to poke around some more?
 

Does it look anything like this?  The problem there is missing device nodes.

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51048

make[1]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/libperl-5.8.4/work/perl-5.8.4' 
echo Makefile.SH cflags.SH config_h.SH makeaperl.SH makedepend.SH makedir.SH 
myconfig.SH writemain.SH pod/Makefile.SH | tr ' ' '\n' .shlist 
make[1]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/libperl-5.8.4/work/perl-5.8.4' 
Updating makefile... 
test -s perlmain.c  touch perlmain.c 
cd x2p; make depend 
make[1]: Entering directory 
`/var/tmp/portage/libperl-5.8.4/work/perl-5.8.4/x2p' 
makefile:157: *** target pattern contains no `%'.  Stop. 
make[1]: Leaving directory 
`/var/tmp/portage/libperl-5.8.4/work/perl-5.8.4/x2p' 
make: *** [depend] Error 2 
 
!!! ERROR: sys-devel/libperl-5.8.4 failed. 
!!! Function src_compile, Line 205, Exitcode 2 
!!! Couldn't make libperl.so depends

Zac


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Re: [gentoo-user] Emerge system fails on libperl

[Michael Haan]

On 6/21/05, Zac Medico [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Michael Haan wrote:
  Trying to do a new install on an x86.  Got to the step emerge
  --emptytree system and it bombs on emerging libperl.  Something about
  % not being in the target string.  Does this sound familiar to
  someone, or do I need to poke around some more?
 
 
 Does it look anything like this?  The problem there is missing device nodes.
 
 http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51048
 
 make[1]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/portage/libperl-5.8.4/work/perl-5.8.4'
 echo Makefile.SH cflags.SH config_h.SH makeaperl.SH makedepend.SH makedir.SH
 myconfig.SH writemain.SH pod/Makefile.SH | tr ' ' '\n' .shlist
 make[1]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/libperl-5.8.4/work/perl-5.8.4'
 Updating makefile...
 test -s perlmain.c  touch perlmain.c
 cd x2p; make depend
 make[1]: Entering directory
 `/var/tmp/portage/libperl-5.8.4/work/perl-5.8.4/x2p'
 makefile:157: *** target pattern contains no `%'.  Stop.
 make[1]: Leaving directory
 `/var/tmp/portage/libperl-5.8.4/work/perl-5.8.4/x2p'
 make: *** [depend] Error 2
 
 !!! ERROR: sys-devel/libperl-5.8.4 failed.
 !!! Function src_compile, Line 205, Exitcode 2
 !!! Couldn't make libperl.so depends
 
 Zac
 
 
 --
 gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
 
 

That's the one.  I need to check if that's the case here.

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