Re: [gentoo-user] clang <<==>> gcc ?

[Randolph Maaßen]

Rasmus.thomsen  schrieb am So., 30. Apr.
2017, 12:19:

> Hello,
>
> it's entirely possible to replace gcc for clang for *most* packages,
> however some will not build currently and will require you to set up a
> package.env file with entries for those packages (like described on clang's
> wiki entry). Clang usually compiles faster than GCC does, but produces
> slower binaries (at least for me). Also, clang offers flto=thin, which
> doesn't require as much ram as gcc's lto
>
> Regards,
> Rasmus
>
>
> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>
>
>
>  Original Message 
> On 30 Apr 2017, 12:11, < tu...@posteo.de> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> before I do a lot of reconfiguring, recompiling and finally
> do the same thing again in the opposite direction:
>
> What are the experiences to replace gcc with clang for either
> only userland tools or the whole system (with haveing gcc as
> fallback)?
> Is it worth the effort?
> What are the benefits and the drawbacks?
>
> Thanks for any input in advance!
> Cheers
> Meino
>
> Hi,

There is a tracking bug about what does not compile with clang.

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=408963

>

[gentoo-user] Can not compile arduino sketch after GCC upgrade

[Dan Johansson]

After upgrading GCC to 5.4.0 (from 4.9.3) I can no longer compile my
sketches.

At the end of the compile phase a get the following linker error:

avr-gcc -Os -Wl,--gc-sections -mmcu=atmega32u4 -o
/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp/Blinky.cpp.elf
/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp/Blinky.cpp.o
/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp/FastLED313/hsv2rgb.cpp.o
/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp/FastLED313/wiring.cpp.o
/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp/FastLED313/colorutils.cpp.o
/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp/FastLED313/colorpalettes.cpp.o
/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp/FastLED313/lib8tion.cpp.o
/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp/FastLED313/FastLED.cpp.o
/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp/FastLED313/bitswap.cpp.o
/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp/FastLED313/power_mgt.cpp.o
/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp/FastLED313/noise.cpp.o
/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp/core.a
-L/tmp/build881550966608502477.tmp -lm
/usr/libexec/gcc/avr/ld: cannot find crtatmega32u4.o: No such file or
directory
/usr/libexec/gcc/avr/ld: cannot find -latmega32u4
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status

And sure enough, there is not "crtatmega32u4.o" on this system (and only
one file with "atmega32u4" in the filename:
/usr/lib64/gcc/avr/5.4.0/device-specs/specs-atmega32u4).

I have tried to reinstall the avr-crossdev-toolchain:
crossdev -C avr
USE="-openmp -hardened -sanitize -vtv" crossdev -s4 -S --target avr
ln -s /usr/lib64/binutils/avr/2.26.1/ldscripts /usr/avr/lib/ldscript


And just to be sure I have also re-emerged:
dev-embedded/avrdude
dev-embedded/arduino

Any suggestions what I am missing?

-- 
D/\N
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[gentoo-user] Re: gcc with graphite flag?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 04/30/2017 05:25 AM, Walter Dnes wrote:

  So much for that wiki entry.  BTW, I ended up putting...

sys-devel/gcc graphite

...in package.use.  The "graphite" USE flag means something entirely
different for harfbuzz, i.e. build against media-libs/harfbuzz against
media-gfx/graphite2


Btw, I don't think that USE flag is useful for anything, unless you put 
the graphite optimization flags in your CFLAGS (-floop-interchange 
-floop-strip-mine -floop-block). If you don't use those, there shouldn't 
be a reason to enable the graphite flag.

[gentoo-user] clang <<==>> gcc ?

[tuxic]

Hi,

before I do a lot of reconfiguring, recompiling and finally
do the same thing again in the opposite direction:

What are the experiences to replace gcc with clang for either
only userland tools or the whole system (with haveing gcc as
fallback)?
Is it worth the effort?
What are the benefits and the drawbacks?

Thanks for any input in advance!
Cheers
Meino

Re: [gentoo-user] clang <<==>> gcc ?

[Rasmus.thomsen]

Hello,

it's entirely possible to replace gcc for clang for *most* packages, however 
some will not build currently and will require you to set up a package.env file 
with entries for those packages (like described on clang's wiki entry). Clang 
usually compiles faster than GCC does, but produces slower binaries (at least 
for me). Also, clang offers flto=thin, which doesn't require as much ram as 
gcc's lto

Regards,
Rasmus

Sent from ProtonMail mobile

 Original Message 
On 30 Apr 2017, 12:11, wrote:
Hi,

before I do a lot of reconfiguring, recompiling and finally
do the same thing again in the opposite direction:

What are the experiences to replace gcc with clang for either
only userland tools or the whole system (with haveing gcc as
fallback)?
Is it worth the effort?
What are the benefits and the drawbacks?

Thanks for any input in advance!
Cheers
Meino

[gentoo-user] Voice synthesizers? (not neccessarily TTS!)

[tuxic]

Hi,

I am looking for a (not neccessarily GENTOO) software, whith which
it is possible to synthesize the human voice (male / female).

It does not neccessarily need to be a TTS (I tried some) -- but the
voice needs easily to be tuned in the sense of pitch and sound.

Suppose you want a synthetic voice of Frodo talking some Tengwar (and dont
want to mimic the movies actors ;) or the northern slang of some Elbish ... ;)

Another example would be vocaloid (commercial product).

Is there some software of this kind somewhere for Linux?

Thanks a lot for any voice coming up for this ! :)))
Cheers
Meino

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gcc with graphite flag?

[J. Roeleveld]

On Sunday, April 30, 2017 2:18:42 PM CEST Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 04/30/2017 05:25 AM, Walter Dnes wrote:
> >   So much for that wiki entry.  BTW, I ended up putting...
> > 
> > sys-devel/gcc graphite
> > 
> > ...in package.use.  The "graphite" USE flag means something entirely
> > different for harfbuzz, i.e. build against media-libs/harfbuzz against
> > media-gfx/graphite2
> 
> Btw, I don't think that USE flag is useful for anything, unless you put
> the graphite optimization flags in your CFLAGS (-floop-interchange
> -floop-strip-mine -floop-block). If you don't use those, there shouldn't
> be a reason to enable the graphite flag.


Is there any benefit from using graphite and these CFLAGS on a current Gentoo 
system?

Using a simple google-search, I can't find anything recent.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] How to get memtest onto a USB drive

[Mick]

On Sunday 30 Apr 2017 01:33:29 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Saturday 29 Apr 2017 08:57:35 Rasmus Thomsen wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > actually had that screen happening to me too, but my hardware was fine.
> > Could you try emerging the latest (unstable) memtest86+ package?
> > Symlinking should work with that one.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Rasmus
> 
> Nope. No can do, since the /boot partition is vfat, which can't handle soft
> links.
> 
> Here's a picture of the BIOS screen. This hardware is kaput.

It may not be.

Try re-seating the HDMI/DVI/VGA? cable between the PC and the monitor with the 
PC off.  Then boot up and see it if persists.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] How to get memtest onto a USB drive

[Daniel Frey]

On 04/29/2017 05:33 PM, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Saturday 29 Apr 2017 08:57:35 Rasmus Thomsen wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> actually had that screen happening to me too, but my hardware was fine.
>> Could you try emerging the latest (unstable) memtest86+ package?
>> Symlinking should work with that one.
>  
>> Regards,
>> Rasmus
> 
> Nope. No can do, since the /boot partition is vfat, which can't handle soft 
> links.
> 
> Here's a picture of the BIOS screen. This hardware is kaput.
> 

Recently had a problem at work where this display corruption occurred,
and it turned out to be a bad DVI cable.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gcc with graphite flag?

[Rasmus]

Hi,

Graphite *can* improve the performance of some packages, but might worsen the 
performance of others. You might want to read through this thread:
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1052716-start-0-postdays-0-postorder-asc-highlight-.html
Personally, I enable it on a per package basis, python's performance gets a bit 
better with it.

Regards,
Rasmus

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gcc with graphite flag?
Local Time: 30 April 2017 4:04 PM
UTC Time: 30 April 2017 14:04
From: jo...@antarean.org
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org

On Sunday, April 30, 2017 2:18:42 PM CEST Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 04/30/2017 05:25 AM, Walter Dnes wrote:
> > So much for that wiki entry. BTW, I ended up putting...
> >
> > sys-devel/gcc graphite
> >
> > ...in package.use. The "graphite" USE flag means something entirely
> > different for harfbuzz, i.e. build against media-libs/harfbuzz against
> > media-gfx/graphite2
>
> Btw, I don't think that USE flag is useful for anything, unless you put
> the graphite optimization flags in your CFLAGS (-floop-interchange
> -floop-strip-mine -floop-block). If you don't use those, there shouldn't
> be a reason to enable the graphite flag.

Is there any benefit from using graphite and these CFLAGS on a current Gentoo
system?

Using a simple google-search, I can't find anything recent.

--
Joost

[gentoo-user] Re: htop wants cgroups

[Kai Krakow]

Am Sun, 30 Apr 2017 10:33:05 -0700
schrieb Jorge Almeida :

> > It allows portage to properly shut down remaining processes from
> > ebuild build phases by knowing exactly which processes have been
> > spawn in the compile phase, and it allows openrc to better manage
> > the processes and proper shut down any processes belonging to a
> > service.  
> 
> I understand that, in principle. In practice, sshd works fine without
> it, for example. And portage doesn't have a cgroups related USE
> variable. Doesn't mean I won't find a need for it, someday.

It does have such a FEATURE in make.conf and it's used to better manage
run-away processes from build phases.

> > Also you may benefit from setting resource limits and fair resource
> > sharing for a group of processes where ulimit applies only to single
> > processes and doesn't know about resource shares at all.
> >
> > Overall, it makes sense to have it.  
> 
> It makes sense that the kernel has it. Should it be enabled? For a
> server, probably. For a single-user workstation? Maybe.

Maybe I don't have the ordinary workstation, but I use it to limit
memory of sometimes-run-away services (memory-wise) and to control
resource usage of container machines I'm using during development.
Probably not the ordinary use-case...


-- 
Regards,
Kai

Replies to list-only preferred.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gcc with graphite flag?

[Walter Dnes]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 10:09:16PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote
> On 04/30/2017 05:04 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 30, 2017 2:18:42 PM CEST Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >>
> >> Btw, I don't think that USE flag is useful for anything, unless you put
> >> the graphite optimization flags in your CFLAGS (-floop-interchange
> >> -floop-strip-mine -floop-block). If you don't use those, there shouldn't
> >> be a reason to enable the graphite flag.
> >
> >
> > Is there any benefit from using graphite and these CFLAGS on a current
> > Gentoo system?
> >
> > Using a simple google-search, I can't find anything recent.
> 
> What Rasmus said, but the differences aren't going to be noticeable in 
> general use. For heavy number crunching (like video encoding) or huge 
> batch jobs or high-traffic servers maybe, but for normal desktop PC use 
> there's not going to be a difference.

  For Pale Moon, the developers want...

-floop-parallelize-all -fpredictive-commoning -ftree-loop-distribution 
-ftree-vectorize

  I follow those specs when doing a contributed build.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: htop wants cgroups

[Jorge Almeida]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Nikos Chantziaras  wrote:
> On 04/30/2017 08:33 PM, Jorge Almeida wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Kai Krakow  wrote:
>>>
>>> Am Sun, 30 Apr 2017 09:26:16 -0700
>>> schrieb Jorge Almeida :

>
> You can enable cgroups in the kernel and then simply not use them. This will
> shut it up. It's what I do :-P
>
The warnings don't bother me that much, I just feel they are Bad
Policy. Enabling cgroups would add unnecessary complexity to the
kernel configuration, if only a bit.

Jorge

[gentoo-user] Re: htop wants cgroups

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 04/30/2017 08:33 PM, Jorge Almeida wrote:

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Kai Krakow  wrote:

Am Sun, 30 Apr 2017 09:26:16 -0700
schrieb Jorge Almeida :




Well, it says "should be" enabled. It's not a requirement. You may not
use some of htop's features like proper process grouping.


Yes, and the emerge finished withou error. But the language of the
warning suggests that nasty things would happen to such people as
would fail to comply.


You can enable cgroups in the kernel and then simply not use them. This 
will shut it up. It's what I do :-P

Re: [gentoo-user] How to get memtest onto a USB drive

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Sunday 30 Apr 2017 15:05:41 Mick wrote:
>> On Sunday 30 Apr 2017 01:33:29 Peter Humphrey wrote:
>>> Here's a picture of the BIOS screen. This hardware is kaput.
>> It may not be.
> You're right - it wasn't.
>
>> Try re-seating the HDMI/DVI/VGA? cable between the PC and the monitor with
>> the PC off.  Then boot up and see it if persists.
> It was the USB stick. I should have tried that before bleating here.
>
> Sorry about the noise.
>


I wouldn't view it as noise.  If someone else posts later about a
problem like this, someone here will likely remember this and be able to
share what you discovered.  So, while it wasn't what you expected it to
be, that doesn't mean others won't learn a little something from it. 

For me, I find it odd that a broken USB stick would cause that.  I would
have expected it to not boot at all or something.  Weird.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: htop wants cgroups

[Kai Krakow]

Am Sun, 30 Apr 2017 12:36:03 -0700
schrieb Jorge Almeida :

> On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Nikos Chantziaras
>  wrote:
> > On 04/30/2017 08:33 PM, Jorge Almeida wrote:  
> >>
> >> On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Kai Krakow 
> >> wrote:  
>  [...]  
> 
> >
> > You can enable cgroups in the kernel and then simply not use them.
> > This will shut it up. It's what I do :-P
> >  
> The warnings don't bother me that much, I just feel they are Bad
> Policy. Enabling cgroups would add unnecessary complexity to the
> kernel configuration, if only a bit.

On the other hand, if such warning weren't there, it would make
installing full-featured systems more difficult. And any experienced
Gentoo user can decide on her/his own how to react to such warnings.

I like to have such warnings in. It gives me hints what I like to have
and what not and gives me the opportunity to improve my knowledge by
researching on that warning.

An improvement could maybe be made: Such warnings could tell links into
the Gentoo wiki for further information on that topic.

-- 
Regards,
Kai

Replies to list-only preferred.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: htop wants cgroups

[Jorge Almeida]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 1:14 PM, Kai Krakow  wrote:
> Am Sun, 30 Apr 2017 12:36:03 -0700
> schrieb Jorge Almeida :

>> The warnings don't bother me that much, I just feel they are Bad
>> Policy. Enabling cgroups would add unnecessary complexity to the
>> kernel configuration, if only a bit.
>
> On the other hand, if such warning weren't there, it would make
> installing full-featured systems more difficult. And any experienced
> Gentoo user can decide on her/his own how to react to such warnings.
>
> I like to have such warnings in. It gives me hints what I like to have
> and what not and gives me the opportunity to improve my knowledge by
> researching on that warning.
>
> An improvement could maybe be made: Such warnings could tell links into
> the Gentoo wiki for further information on that topic.
>

Yes, positive warnings would make the difference:
"Your kernel lacks support for cfoo. You can use this package but
feature bar will be disabled. See
"https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Bar_great;

As opposed to:
"Your kernel lacks support for cfoo. You absolutely must enable cfoo,
everybody knows that, what were you thinking?! Do the right thing or
else..."

Regards

Jorge

[gentoo-user] Re: gcc with graphite flag?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 04/30/2017 05:04 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:

On Sunday, April 30, 2017 2:18:42 PM CEST Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

On 04/30/2017 05:25 AM, Walter Dnes wrote:

  So much for that wiki entry.  BTW, I ended up putting...

sys-devel/gcc graphite

...in package.use.  The "graphite" USE flag means something entirely
different for harfbuzz, i.e. build against media-libs/harfbuzz against
media-gfx/graphite2


Btw, I don't think that USE flag is useful for anything, unless you put
the graphite optimization flags in your CFLAGS (-floop-interchange
-floop-strip-mine -floop-block). If you don't use those, there shouldn't
be a reason to enable the graphite flag.



Is there any benefit from using graphite and these CFLAGS on a current Gentoo
system?

Using a simple google-search, I can't find anything recent.


What Rasmus said, but the differences aren't going to be noticeable in 
general use. For heavy number crunching (like video encoding) or huge 
batch jobs or high-traffic servers maybe, but for normal desktop PC use 
there's not going to be a difference.

[gentoo-user] freetype-2.7 USE flags

[Ian Zimmerman]

I understand that freetype-2.7 enabled by default the code that emulates
the so called ClearType technique on Windows (a.k.a. blurry fonts).
In older versions that code was turned on with the "infinality" USE
flag.

"infinality" is still there but now there is also a new
"cleartype_hinting" flag.  I am confused.  Can anyone explain exactly
what each of these flags do and how they interact?

-- 
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Personal signed mail: please _encrypt_ and sign
Don't clear-text sign:
http://primate.net/~itz/blog/the-problem-with-gpg-signatures.html

[gentoo-user] Re: gcc with graphite flag?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 04/30/2017 10:36 PM, Walter Dnes wrote:

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 10:09:16PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote

On 04/30/2017 05:04 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:

On Sunday, April 30, 2017 2:18:42 PM CEST Nikos Chantziaras wrote:


Btw, I don't think that USE flag is useful for anything, unless you put
the graphite optimization flags in your CFLAGS (-floop-interchange
-floop-strip-mine -floop-block). If you don't use those, there shouldn't
be a reason to enable the graphite flag.



Is there any benefit from using graphite and these CFLAGS on a current
Gentoo system?

Using a simple google-search, I can't find anything recent.


What Rasmus said, but the differences aren't going to be noticeable in
general use. For heavy number crunching (like video encoding) or huge
batch jobs or high-traffic servers maybe, but for normal desktop PC use
there's not going to be a difference.


  For Pale Moon, the developers want...

-floop-parallelize-all -fpredictive-commoning -ftree-loop-distribution 
-ftree-vectorize

  I follow those specs when doing a contributed build.


Are these using graphite though?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: gcc with graphite flag?

[Walter Dnes]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 11:34:44PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote
> On 04/30/2017 10:36 PM, Walter Dnes wrote:
> >
> >   For Pale Moon, the developers want...
> >
> > -floop-parallelize-all -fpredictive-commoning -ftree-loop-distribution 
> > -ftree-vectorize
> >
> >   I follow those specs when doing a contributed build.
> 
> Are these using graphite though?

  Yes.  Non-graphite GCC errors out if I include them in
CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS.  Try for yourself.  Include those flags, if you don't
have graphite, and try to build something.  See also
https://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/Graphite/Parallelization

> First step of autopar in Graphite has been done. You can trigger it
> by 2 flags -floop-parallelize-all -ftree-parallelize-loops=4. Both
> of them is needed, the first flag will trigger Graphite pass to mark
> loops that can be parallel and the second flag will trigger the code
> generation part.
 
-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

[gentoo-user] Re: How to get rid of sys-fs/static-dev, or do I really need it?

[Kai Krakow]

Am Tue, 25 Apr 2017 08:29:51 +0100
schrieb Neil Bothwick :

> On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 01:30:07 +0200, wabe wrote:
> 
> > > Do you have virtual/udev installed? That should be enough to keep
> > > virtual/dev-manager happy.
> > 
> > Thanks for your answer. virtual/udev is already installed. Tomorrow
> > I'll make a backup of my system and after that I'll remove
> > sys-fs/static-dev.  
> 
> I can't see it doing any harm, because any static nodes in /dev/ are
> hidden once udev starts.

It's hidden when devtmpfs is mounted by the kernel. Modern kernels do
this automatically, udev is not involved here. That's probably the
reason why it was removed from the profile. The default options of
gentoo-sources suggest devtmpfs to be enabled and automounted by the
kernel at boot.

-- 
Regards,
Kai

Replies to list-only preferred.


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[gentoo-user] Re: replacement for ftp?

[Kai Krakow]

Am Sat, 29 Apr 2017 20:30:03 +0100
schrieb lee :

> Danny YUE  writes:
> 
> > On 2017-04-25 14:29, lee  wrote:  
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> since the usage of FTP seems to be declining, what is a replacement
> >> which is at least as good as FTP?
> >>
> >> I'm aware that there's webdav, but that's very awkward to use and
> >> missing features.  
> >
> > What about sshfs? It allows you to mount a location that can be
> > accessed via ssh to your local file system, as if you are using
> > ssh.  
> 
> Doesn't that require ssh access?  And how do you explain that to ppl
> finding it too difficult to use Filezilla?  Is it available for
> Windoze?

Both, sshfs and scp, require a full shell (that may be restricted but
that involves configuration overhead on the server side). You can use
sftp (FTP wrapped into SSH), which is built into SSH. It has native
support in many Windows clients (most implementations use PuTTY in the
background). It also has the advantage that you can easily restrict
users on your system to SFTP-only with an easy server-side
configuration.

> > Also samba can be a replacement. I have a samba server on my OpenWRT
> > router and use mount.cifs to mount it...  
> 
> Does that work well, reliably and securely over internet connections?

It supports encryption as transport security, and it supports kerberos
for secure authentication, the latter is not easy to setup in Linux,
but it should work with Windows clients out-of-the-box.

But samba is a pretty complex daemon and thus offers a big attack
surface for hackers and bots. I'm not sure you want to expose this to
the internet without some sort of firewall in place to restrict access
to specific clients - and that probably wouldn't work for your scenario.

But you could offer access via OpenVPN and tunnel samba through that.
By that time, you can as easily offer FTP, too, through the tunnel
only, as there should be no more security concerns now: It's encrypted
now. OpenVPN also offers transparent compression which can be a big
plus for your scenario.

OpenVPN is not too difficult to setup, and the client is available for
all major OSes. And it's not too complicated to use: Open VPN
connection, then use your file transfer client as you're used to. Just
one simple extra step.


-- 
Regards,
Kai

Replies to list-only preferred.

[gentoo-user] Re: replacement for ftp?

[Kai Krakow]

Am Sat, 29 Apr 2017 20:02:57 +0100
schrieb lee :

> Alan McKinnon  writes:
> 
> > On 25/04/2017 16:29, lee wrote:  
> >> 
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> since the usage of FTP seems to be declining, what is a replacement
> >> which is at least as good as FTP?
> >> 
> >> I'm aware that there's webdav, but that's very awkward to use and
> >> missing features.
> >> 
> >>   
> >
> > Why not stick with ftp?  
> 
> The intended users are incompetent, hence it is too difficult to
> use ...

If you incompetent users are using Windows: Have you ever tried
entering ftp://u...@yoursite.tld in the explorer directory input bar?

> > Or, put another way, why do you feel you need to use something
> > else?  
> 
> I don't want to use anything else.
> 
> Yet even Debian has announced that they will shut down their ftp
> services in November, one of the reasons being that almost no one uses
> them.  Of course, their application is different from what I'm looking
> for because they only have downloads and no uploads.

And that's the exact reason why: Offering FTP just for downloads (not
even for browsing) is inefficient. Getting a file via HTTP is much more
efficient as the connection overhead is much lower. Removing FTP is
thus just a question of reducing attack surface and server load.

Your scenario differs a lot and doesn't follow the reasoning debian put
behind it.

> However, another reason given was that ftp isn't exactly friendly to
> firewalls and requires "awkward kludges" when load balancing is used.
> That is a pretty good reason.

This is due to FTP incorporating transfer of ports and IP addresses in
the protocol which was a good design decision when the protocol was
specified but isn't nowadays. Embedding FTP into a tunnel solves that,
e.g. by using sftp (ssh+ftp). HTTP also solves that by not embedding
such information at the protocol level. But tunneling FTP is not how
you would deploy such a scenario, so the option is HTTP, hence FTP can
be shut down by debian. KISS principle.

> Anyway, when pretty much nobody uses a particular software anymore, it
> won't be very feasible to use that software.

Nobody said that when debian announced to shut down their FTP servers.
Debian is not the king to rule the internet. You shouldn't care when
they shut down their FTP services. It doesn't matter to the rest of the
world using the internet.

> > There's always dropbox  
> 
> Well, dropbox sucks.  I got a dropbox link and it didn't work at all,
> and handing out the data to some 3rd party is a very bad idea.  It's
> also difficult to automate things with that.

There's also owncloud (or whatever it is called now). You can automate
things by deploying a sync application on your clients side.


-- 
Regards,
Kai

Replies to list-only preferred.

[gentoo-user] Re: Pseudo first impressions

[Kai Krakow]

Am Sun, 30 Apr 2017 00:56:40 -0500
schrieb R0b0t1 :

> On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Kai Krakow 
> wrote:
> > Am Sat, 29 Apr 2017 14:39:13 +
> > schrieb Alan Mackenzie :
> >  
> >> For a start, I could barely read parts of it, which were displayed
> >> in dark blue text on a black background.  Setting
> >> up /etc/portage/color.map is not the first thing a new user should
> >> have to do to be able to read messages from emerge.  This is,
> >> however, something I knew had to be done, and I did it.  
> >
> > This is a problem with most terminal emulators having a much too
> > dark "dark blue". On an old DOS CRT, this dark blue was still
> > bright enough to be read easily on black background. Especially, I
> > found PuTTY in Windows having a dark blue barely readable.
> >
> > E.g., in KDE Konsole I usually switch to a different terminal color
> > scheme which usually gets around this. But then, contrast on bright
> > colors is usually very bad, as can be seen in MC at some points. But
> > the new "breeze" color scheme from current Plasma versions is quite
> > nice and an overall good fit.
> >  
> 
> I have occasionally had this problem (and the reverse - green and
> yellow are unreadable on light backgrounds), but the default colors in
> URxvt are fairly reasonable.

Much depends on a reasonable color palette in the terminal emulator.
There are only few that get it right.

> Not to derail this thread but what is the process for getting changes
> into the handbook? I have some suggestions as well, but still only
> have a vague idea of how it is maintained. There's a lot that could be
> added in relation to maintaining modern systems, and many of the
> changes to portage could be added. (E.g. there's people who will come
> into the IRC and have a conglomeration of settings that, based on the
> quirks and naming conventions, you can tell were taken from 3-4 places
> each being published years apart. There probably needs to be some
> basic information all in one place.)

There's the Gentoo wiki. I don't know if you need special privileges or
if it's open to everyone to put in improvements. And then, there's
always the BGO (bugs.gentoo.org) where you can suggest even handbook
improvements by selecting the proper bug component.

> And in reply to the Perl problem, though my response probably isn't
> needed: I can verify that using a high backtrack number solved this,
> and that the dependency chain was the longest I have seen save one
> other time.

Usually, using "reinstall-atoms" works much better for me (and it's
faster in most cases because when emerge dumps all those stuff and I
see it's easily resolvable by reinstall-atoms, I do that, instead of
using a high backtrack value, waiting for ages again, only to see that
it may not solve my problem).


-- 
Regards,
Kai

Replies to list-only preferred.

[gentoo-user] Re: replacement for ftp?

[Kai Krakow]

Am Sat, 29 Apr 2017 22:02:51 -0400
schrieb "Walter Dnes" :

>   Then there's always "sneakernet".  To quote Andrew Tanenbaum from
> 1981
> 
> > Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
> > hurtling down the highway.  

Hehe, with the improvements in internet connections nowadays, we
almost stopped transferring backups via sneakernet. Calculating the
transfer speed of the internet connection vs. the speed calculating
miles per hour, internet almost always won lately. :-)

Most internet connections are faster than even USB sticks these days.
LAN connections tailored towards storage are even fast then ordinary
hard disks (i.e. SAN).

Nice fun fact, tho. If go "a station wagon full", it probably still
holds true today.


-- 
Regards,
Kai

Replies to list-only preferred.

[gentoo-user] Re: ebuild: package specific CFLAGS

[Kai Krakow]

Am Sat, 29 Apr 2017 00:14:10 -0400
schrieb John Covici :

> On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 22:10:42 -0400,
> Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> > 
> > I'm trying to create an ebuild of a crufty old program that needs
> > -fgnu89-inline in compiler flags to have any chance of building.
> > 
> > What's the way to do that in an ebuild?  I could have something like
> > 
> > src_configure() {
> > econf $(use_enable nls) CFLAGS=-fgnu89-inline
> > }
> > 
> > but then, will this not _override_ (rather than add to, as desired)
> > the CFLAGS from make.conf?  
> 
> Maybe you'd be better off setting an environment variable outside the
> ebuild in a shell script in /etc/portage/env where you can put the
> whole CCFLAGS .

You should also say that you need to reference that
in /etc/portage/packages.env, similar to how packages.use works. Just
that instead of use flags, you give filenames from /etc/portage/env.

-- 
Regards,
Kai

Replies to list-only preferred.

[gentoo-user] htop wants cgroups

[Jorge Almeida]

Why?

emerging htop yields this message:
 *   CONFIG_CGROUPS: is not set when it should be.
 * Please check to make sure these options are set correctly.
 * Failure to do so may cause unexpected problems.


Gee, I can use top without cgroups support. I thought I might use htop
as well. Anyone knows why I _should_ use a kernel with cgroups
support? Just curious, not a big deal. I can do without htop if I
must.

(I'm not suggesting that cgroups doesn't have valid use cases. But a
graphic version of top? Really? Please help me to understand. I want
to do the _correct_ thing, and I wouldn't want my dog to die for lack
of cgroups support.)

thanks

Jorge Almeida

Re: [gentoo-user] htop wants cgroups

[Rasmus]

Hi,

it's possible to use htop without the cgroup config in your kernel, but htop is 
able to display cgroups (which it obviously isn't able to if those aren't 
enabled in the kernel), so emerge throws this warning. If you don't want to 
display your cgroups in htop you don't need to change anything.

Regards,
Rasmus

Sent from ProtonMail mobile

 Original Message 
On 30 Apr 2017, 18:26, Jorge Almeida wrote:
Why?

emerging htop yields this message:
* CONFIG_CGROUPS: is not set when it should be.
* Please check to make sure these options are set correctly.
* Failure to do so may cause unexpected problems.

Gee, I can use top without cgroups support. I thought I might use htop
as well. Anyone knows why I _should_ use a kernel with cgroups
support? Just curious, not a big deal. I can do without htop if I
must.

(I'm not suggesting that cgroups doesn't have valid use cases. But a
graphic version of top? Really? Please help me to understand. I want
to do the _correct_ thing, and I wouldn't want my dog to die for lack
of cgroups support.)

thanks

Jorge Almeida

[gentoo-user] Re: htop wants cgroups

[Kai Krakow]

Am Sun, 30 Apr 2017 09:26:16 -0700
schrieb Jorge Almeida :

> Why?
> 
> emerging htop yields this message:
>  *   CONFIG_CGROUPS: is not set when it should be.
>  * Please check to make sure these options are set correctly.
>  * Failure to do so may cause unexpected problems.
> 
> 
> Gee, I can use top without cgroups support. I thought I might use htop
> as well. Anyone knows why I _should_ use a kernel with cgroups
> support? Just curious, not a big deal. I can do without htop if I
> must.

Well, it says "should be" enabled. It's not a requirement. You may not
use some of htop's features like proper process grouping.

> (I'm not suggesting that cgroups doesn't have valid use cases. But a
> graphic version of top? Really? Please help me to understand. I want
> to do the _correct_ thing, and I wouldn't want my dog to die for lack
> of cgroups support.)

I would be interested in why you wouldn't want to use cgroups. Besides
being a requirement for systemd, it also has very valid use cases for
other software you probably use:

It allows portage to properly shut down remaining processes from ebuild
build phases by knowing exactly which processes have been spawn in the
compile phase, and it allows openrc to better manage the processes and
proper shut down any processes belonging to a service.

Also you may benefit from setting resource limits and fair resource
sharing for a group of processes where ulimit applies only to single
processes and doesn't know about resource shares at all.

Overall, it makes sense to have it.


-- 
Regards,
Kai

Replies to list-only preferred.

Re: [gentoo-user] replacement for ftp?

[Andrew Savchenko]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:29:18 +0100 lee wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> since the usage of FTP seems to be declining, what is a replacement
> which is at least as good as FTP?

I fail to see why FTP needs to be replaced: it works, it is
supported, it is secure when used with care, it is damn fast.

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko


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Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-user] htop wants cgroups

[Jorge Almeida]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Rasmus  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> it's possible to use htop without the cgroup config in your kernel, but htop
> is able to display cgroups (which it obviously isn't able to if those aren't
> enabled in the kernel), so emerge throws this warning. If you don't want to
> display your cgroups in htop you don't need to change anything.
>

OK. But the language of the warning sort of touches a chord.

Regards

Jorge

[gentoo-user] Re: ebuild: package specific CFLAGS

[Jonathan Callen]

On 04/28/2017 10:10 PM, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> I'm trying to create an ebuild of a crufty old program that needs
> -fgnu89-inline in compiler flags to have any chance of building.
> 
> What's the way to do that in an ebuild?  I could have something like
> 
> src_configure() {
> econf $(use_enable nls) CFLAGS=-fgnu89-inline
> }
> 
> but then, will this not _override_ (rather than add to, as desired) the
> CFLAGS from make.conf?
> 

If you want a particular flag to be added to CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS within an
ebuild, you can inherit flag-o-matic, then call "append-flags
-fgnu89-inline" in src_configure before the econf line.  If you
explicitly only want to set CFLAGS (and not CXXFLAGS), then call
"append-cflags" (there is also a append-cppflags, append-cxxflags,
append-ldflags, append-fflags).

-- 
Jonathan Callen



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Voice synthesizers? (not neccessarily TTS!)

[wabe]

tu...@posteo.de wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am looking for a (not neccessarily GENTOO) software, whith which
> it is possible to synthesize the human voice (male / female).
> 
> It does not neccessarily need to be a TTS (I tried some) -- but the
> voice needs easily to be tuned in the sense of pitch and sound.
> 
> Suppose you want a synthetic voice of Frodo talking some Tengwar (and
> dont want to mimic the movies actors ;) or the northern slang of some
> Elbish ... ;)
> 
> Another example would be vocaloid (commercial product).
> 
> Is there some software of this kind somewhere for Linux?
> 
> Thanks a lot for any voice coming up for this ! :)))

It's some years ago that I use speech synthesizers and I can't 
remember all details. 

First I use mbrola for some years. Unfortunately it is not an open 
source program but it is available for gentoo. For some reason 
(that I don't remember, maybe because it's not open source or
maybe because there is no 64bit binary) I switched over to espeak.
Later I also used festival. But I still used the mbrola voices 
together with espeak and also with festival because they have a 
very good quality (I downloaded some high quality mbrola voices 
from the mbrola homepage).

--
Regards
wabe

Re: [gentoo-user] Voice synthesizers? (not neccessarily TTS!)

[wabe]

wabe  wrote:

> tu...@posteo.de wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I am looking for a (not neccessarily GENTOO) software, whith which
> > it is possible to synthesize the human voice (male / female).
> > 
> > It does not neccessarily need to be a TTS (I tried some) -- but the
> > voice needs easily to be tuned in the sense of pitch and sound.
> > 
> > Suppose you want a synthetic voice of Frodo talking some Tengwar
> > (and dont want to mimic the movies actors ;) or the northern slang
> > of some Elbish ... ;)
> > 
> > Another example would be vocaloid (commercial product).
> > 
> > Is there some software of this kind somewhere for Linux?
> > 
> > Thanks a lot for any voice coming up for this ! :)))  
> 
> It's some years ago that I use speech synthesizers and I can't 
> remember all details. 
> 
> First I use mbrola for some years. Unfortunately it is not an open 
> source program but it is available for gentoo. For some reason 
> (that I don't remember, maybe because it's not open source or
> maybe because there is no 64bit binary) I switched over to espeak.
> Later I also used festival. But I still used the mbrola voices 
> together with espeak and also with festival because they have a 
> very good quality (I downloaded some high quality mbrola voices 
> from the mbrola homepage).

P.S.: It is possible to tune some parameters for mbrola so that 
you can let it even sing a song. I can't remember if this is also 
possible with espeak or festival.

--
Regards
wabe

Re: [gentoo-user] htop wants cgroups

[Rasmus]

I think that it's meant to "touch a chord", to make sure that you have the 
necessary kernel configs enabled before you report a bug because something 
doesn't work

Sent from ProtonMail mobile

 Original Message 
On 30 Apr 2017, 19:04, Jorge Almeida wrote:
On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Rasmus  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> it's possible to use htop without the cgroup config in your kernel, but htop
> is able to display cgroups (which it obviously isn't able to if those aren't
> enabled in the kernel), so emerge throws this warning. If you don't want to
> display your cgroups in htop you don't need to change anything.
>

OK. But the language of the warning sort of touches a chord.

Regards

Jorge

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: htop wants cgroups

[Jorge Almeida]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Kai Krakow  wrote:
> Am Sun, 30 Apr 2017 09:26:16 -0700
> schrieb Jorge Almeida :
>

> Well, it says "should be" enabled. It's not a requirement. You may not
> use some of htop's features like proper process grouping.

Yes, and the emerge finished withou error. But the language of the
warning suggests that nasty things would happen to such people as
would fail to comply.

>

>
> I would be interested in why you wouldn't want to use cgroups.

cgroups is NOT a pet hate of mine. I'll enable it if there is a good
reason. But I dislike enabling stuff when I don't understand the need
(and words like "correct" and "should" don't really help, and make me
think of FUD).

Besides
> being a requirement for systemd, it also has very valid use cases for

This is the well-known reason to enable cgroups. I don't use systemd.

> other software you probably use:
>
> It allows portage to properly shut down remaining processes from ebuild
> build phases by knowing exactly which processes have been spawn in the
> compile phase, and it allows openrc to better manage the processes and
> proper shut down any processes belonging to a service.

I understand that, in principle. In practice, sshd works fine without
it, for example. And portage doesn't have a cgroups related USE
variable. Doesn't mean I won't find a need for it, someday.




>
> Also you may benefit from setting resource limits and fair resource
> sharing for a group of processes where ulimit applies only to single
> processes and doesn't know about resource shares at all.
>
> Overall, it makes sense to have it.

It makes sense that the kernel has it. Should it be enabled? For a
server, probably. For a single-user workstation? Maybe.

I just think this kind of stuff shouldn't be pushed unless really
necessary, in which case the Gentoo handbook probably would say so.

(Your mail contributes to clarify the reasons why one might want to use it.)

Regards

Jorge

Re: [gentoo-user] How to get memtest onto a USB drive

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday 30 Apr 2017 15:05:41 Mick wrote:
> On Sunday 30 Apr 2017 01:33:29 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > Here's a picture of the BIOS screen. This hardware is kaput.
> 
> It may not be.

You're right - it wasn't.

> Try re-seating the HDMI/DVI/VGA? cable between the PC and the monitor with
> the PC off.  Then boot up and see it if persists.

It was the USB stick. I should have tried that before bleating here.

Sorry about the noise.

-- 
Regards
Peter