Re: [geo] Opinion: Dreams we cannot afford, by Russ George — The Daily Climate
Conserve isn't really right because we've been anthroforming Terra since the beginning of the Holocene -- 15 kya domestication of animals and dogs, 12 kya mass extinctions, 8 kya rice/methane if you believe William Ruddiman, 3000 ya agriculture, deforestation of Greece, 1750 industrial era ..;.For better or worse Holocene == conserve. I'd like to find a word that conveys human appropriation of net primary productivity -- HANPPoforming? --- Fred Zimmerman Geoengineering IT! Bringing together the worlds of geoengineering and information technology GE NewsFilter: http://geoengineeringIT.net:8080 On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Russell Seitz russellse...@gmail.comwrote: Ken, I suspect the word you are looking for is conserve. Anthroform is what God does to dust in Genesis , anda href= http://www.myopiapolo.org; the myopeconforms hereabouts/a are already a fairly green lot. On Saturday, May 25, 2013 5:23:28 PM UTC-4, Ken Caldeira wrote: Maybe the word is anthroform --.transforming the Earth to better meet human needs. This could perhaps be contrasted with naturaform -- transforming the Earth to better meet the needs of existing natural systems. These both could be contrasted with our current policy: myopeconoform -- transforming the Earth as a consequence of efforts to maximize short-term economic objectives. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [geo] Opinion: Dreams we cannot afford, by Russ George — The Daily Climate
Fred, list and ccs 1. I support your efforts to put more list emphasis on HANPP. How about HANPPropriation? (Getting at the A twice for emphasis) But I am hoping to hear more about increasing GPP and NPP, so how about HAANPP, with the new added A meaning Augmentation, so we can also have HAANPPropriation , with no wasted syllables. 2. It was interesting to learn the historic (visual) reason for the Polo Club name that Dr. Seitz alerted us to. But liking the non-visual reason in Ken's last suggestion, how about: myopoecotopia (Alliteration (4 o's) being promoted by Joe Romm.) Ron - Original Message - From: Fred Zimmerman geoengineerin...@gmail.com To: Russell Seitz russellse...@gmail.com, gh...@sbcglobal.net, geoengineering geoengineering@googlegroups.com, Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 7:05:38 PM Subject: Re: [geo] Opinion: Dreams we cannot afford, by Russ George — The Daily Climate Conserve isn't really right because we've been anthroforming Terra since the beginning of the Holocene -- 15 kya domestication of animals and dogs, 12 kya mass extinctions, 8 kya rice/methane if you believe William Ruddiman, 3000 ya agriculture, deforestation of Greece, 1750 industrial era ..;.For better or worse Holocene == conserve. I'd like to find a word that conveys human appropriation of net primary productivity -- HANPPoforming? --- Fred Zimmerman Geoengineering IT! Bringing together the worlds of geoengineering and information technology GE NewsFilter: http://geoengineeringIT.net:8080 On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Russell Seitz russellse...@gmail.com wrote: Ken, I suspect the word you are looking for is conserve. Anthroform is what God does to dust in Genesis , anda href= http://www.myopiapolo.org the myopeconforms hereabouts/a are already a fairly green lot. On Saturday, May 25, 2013 5:23:28 PM UTC-4, Ken Caldeira wrote: blockquote Maybe the word is anthroform --.transforming the Earth to better meet human needs. This could perhaps be contrasted with naturaform -- transforming the Earth to better meet the needs of existing natural systems. These both could be contrasted with our current policy: myopeconoform -- transforming the Earth as a consequence of efforts to maximize short-term economic objectives. /blockquote -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [geo] Opinion: Dreams we cannot afford, by Russ George — The Daily Climate
I spotted those shaky 'facts', too. One issue which concerns me greatly is ocean colour / albedo. Far too little is discussed on this issue WRT OIF. I wonder if anyone on this list has access to such measurements? Photos are not a reliable indicator of numerically accurate albedo, unless calibrated specifically for the purpose. On May 25, 2013 5:54 AM, RAU greg gh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Thanks, Andrew. A couple of comments: As far as I know, Marchetti (1977), not David Keith, was the father of the term 'geoengineering' I thought Klaus Lackner, not David Keith, is known as the father of the artificial tree. Capturing excess air/ocean CO2 for mere pennies per ton would indeed be welcomed news, especially if more than a few percent of this captured carbon were permanently stored. I look forward to seeing those 200 million discrete measurements of the ocean environment and the bloom that supposedly will prove this hypothesis, assuming these haven't vanished along with George's departure from the project. As for restoring salmon, it would seem that the Haida Gwaii have voiced there opinion by terminating George. Dreams indeed. I think all of this is very unfortunate because I share George's belief that the ocean could play a much bigger role than it already does in consuming our excess CO2, though I don't share his (and other's) insistence that leaky and unpredictable marine biology should do the heavy lifting. But whatever your marine method of choice, George's attempts at large-scale pirate science will now make it more difficult for those wishing to conduct legitimate, open, scientific research on this topic. This is a situation that, with options and time dwindling, truly we cannot afford. -Greg -- *From:* Andrew Lockley andrew.lock...@gmail.com *To:* geoengineering geoengineering@googlegroups.com *Sent:* Thu, May 23, 2013 11:12:52 PM *Subject:* [geo] Opinion: Dreams we cannot afford, by Russ George — The Daily Climate http://wwwp.dailyclimate.org/tdc-newsroom/2013/05/opinion-ocean-geoengineering Dreams we cannot afford By Russ George The Daily Climate VANCOUVER, British Columbia – The billions of dollars required by geoengineers to scrub the atmosphere of carbon will bankrupt us. I have a cheaper solution. I met David Keith, often described as the father of geoengineering, a few years back in the backstage green room in New York City as we were preparing to go on stage for a TED event. TED talks charge high ticket prices for lavishly produced events on worldly topics that the intelligentsia and cognoscenti of technology and science like to attend. David, Martin Hoffert and I were speaking that night on a common theme: What to do about anthropogenic carbon dioxide.Geoengineers are presenting ideas that require hundreds of billions, even trillions, of dollars to solve the crisis of human-driven climate change.Marty, retired now from New York University, is a voluble advocate for getting off fossil fuels to avoid climate change impacts. David is a physics professor at Harvard University and is backed by Bill Gates. He's proud to be the father of the term geoengineering, where we alter the climate to suit our needs instead of Nature's. Me? I am displeased to have the term hung around my neck. But I am an old hippy tree-planter who has spent life living outside of the box, with some bit of help from folks inside said box. I compromise and call myself an ecoengineer.What transpired in the green room started out as a friendly exchange of views that became a heated discussion and rapidly devolved into an argument with sparks flying. My premise: The cost of dealing with anthropogenic CO2 must be and can be a tiny fraction of the cost demanded by those working in the field inside the box. David and other geoengineers are presenting ideas and inventions to the world that require hundreds of billions, even trillions, of dollars to solve the crisis of human-driven climate change. David's artificial trees – named after plants' abilities to pull carbon dioxide from the air – consist of vast arrays of fans blowing our carbon-rich air over a pool of sodium hydroxide. Other plans would have us send a fleet of planes or blimps aloft to seed the clouds with light-reflecting particles, much as a large volcanic explosion do. More farfetched are plans to lob trillions of mirrors into orbit to deflect the sun's energy.My work over the past two decades shows that we can solve a large part of the crisis for a small fraction of the cost. And because it's ecoengineering, we're restoring ecosystems at the same time we're solving climate change.Last summer, in the largest geoengineering project to date, I oversaw an ocean experiment that sowed 120 tons of iron sulphate and iron ore rock dust into the Pacific Ocean more than 200 miles west of British Columbia's Haida Gwaii islands. The premise was simple: Iron
[geo] Opinion: Dreams we cannot afford, by Russ George — The Daily Climate
http://wwwp.dailyclimate.org/tdc-newsroom/2013/05/opinion-ocean-geoengineering Dreams we cannot afford By Russ George The Daily Climate VANCOUVER, British Columbia – The billions of dollars required by geoengineers to scrub the atmosphere of carbon will bankrupt us. I have a cheaper solution. I met David Keith, often described as the father of geoengineering, a few years back in the backstage green room in New York City as we were preparing to go on stage for a TED event. TED talks charge high ticket prices for lavishly produced events on worldly topics that the intelligentsia and cognoscenti of technology and science like to attend. David, Martin Hoffert and I were speaking that night on a common theme: What to do about anthropogenic carbon dioxide.Geoengineers are presenting ideas that require hundreds of billions, even trillions, of dollars to solve the crisis of human-driven climate change.Marty, retired now from New York University, is a voluble advocate for getting off fossil fuels to avoid climate change impacts. David is a physics professor at Harvard University and is backed by Bill Gates. He's proud to be the father of the term geoengineering, where we alter the climate to suit our needs instead of Nature's. Me? I am displeased to have the term hung around my neck. But I am an old hippy tree-planter who has spent life living outside of the box, with some bit of help from folks inside said box. I compromise and call myself an ecoengineer.What transpired in the green room started out as a friendly exchange of views that became a heated discussion and rapidly devolved into an argument with sparks flying. My premise: The cost of dealing with anthropogenic CO2 must be and can be a tiny fraction of the cost demanded by those working in the field inside the box. David and other geoengineers are presenting ideas and inventions to the world that require hundreds of billions, even trillions, of dollars to solve the crisis of human-driven climate change. David's artificial trees – named after plants' abilities to pull carbon dioxide from the air – consist of vast arrays of fans blowing our carbon-rich air over a pool of sodium hydroxide. Other plans would have us send a fleet of planes or blimps aloft to seed the clouds with light-reflecting particles, much as a large volcanic explosion do. More farfetched are plans to lob trillions of mirrors into orbit to deflect the sun's energy.My work over the past two decades shows that we can solve a large part of the crisis for a small fraction of the cost. And because it's ecoengineering, we're restoring ecosystems at the same time we're solving climate change.Last summer, in the largest geoengineering project to date, I oversaw an ocean experiment that sowed 120 tons of iron sulphate and iron ore rock dust into the Pacific Ocean more than 200 miles west of British Columbia's Haida Gwaii islands. The premise was simple: Iron, acting as a fertilizer, would trigger a phytoplankton bloom that would pull carbon from the ocean. We'd simply be replenishing the sea with a natural mineral micronutrient. The whole ocean food chain would benefit, as well as the Haida, who have suffered from diminished salmon runs. Our carbon emissions are an immediate, cataclysmic problem for the oceans that make up more than 70 percent of our blue planet. We are delivering a lethal overdose of carbon dioxide to the ocean environment.This is the crisis of CO2, and we might as well forget about any long term problems associated with global warming – and the trillions of dollars needed by geoengineers like David Keith – if we do not first deal with ocean health.Some in the international community and in Canada claim that our project was unlawful are presently before the Supreme Court of British Columbia. A thorough review of law in Canada has yet to discover anything identifying the work as being unlawful. Other scientists have said this approach won't work – that other studies have found little ability for iron fertilization efforts to permanently sequester carbon on any scale relevant to counter human emissionsWe have found otherwise. Six years of preparation and months of sea studies aboard our research ships – along with two state of the art Slocum Ocean gliders and hourly data from buoys at the site – have produced nearly 200 million discrete measurements of the ocean environment and the bloom. The experiment is working.For mere pennies per ton of captured carbon dioxide, the native village I've been working with has replenished and restored its traditional ocean pasture. In doing so we captured tens of millions of ton of CO2 last year. The carbon has been converted into an even more valuable form: Life itself – plankton – that my friends on British Columbia's Haida Gwaii islands know best as fish food. Here's a link to a narrative on how well it worked. So five years have passed since that New York City TED evening, and David Keith's prototype artificial trees are being readied
Re: [geo] Opinion: Dreams we cannot afford, by Russ George — The Daily Climate
Thanks, Andrew. A couple of comments: As far as I know, Marchetti (1977), not David Keith, was the father of the term 'geoengineering' I thought Klaus Lackner, not David Keith, is known as the father of the artificial tree. Capturing excess air/ocean CO2 for mere pennies per ton would indeed be welcomed news, especially if more than a few percent of this captured carbon were permanently stored. I look forward to seeing those 200 million discrete measurements of the ocean environment and the bloom that supposedly will prove this hypothesis, assuming these haven't vanished along with George's departure from the project. As for restoring salmon, it would seem that the Haida Gwaii have voiced there opinion by terminating George. Dreams indeed. I think all of this is very unfortunate because I share George's belief that the ocean could play a much bigger role than it already does in consuming our excess CO2, though I don't share his (and other's) insistence that leaky and unpredictable marine biology should do the heavy lifting. But whatever your marine method of choice, George's attempts at large-scale pirate science will now make it more difficult for those wishing to conduct legitimate, open, scientific research on this topic. This is a situation that, with options and time dwindling, truly we cannot afford. -Greg From: Andrew Lockley andrew.lock...@gmail.com To: geoengineering geoengineering@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, May 23, 2013 11:12:52 PM Subject: [geo] Opinion: Dreams we cannot afford, by Russ George — The Daily Climate http://wwwp.dailyclimate.org/tdc-newsroom/2013/05/opinion-ocean-geoengineering Dreams we cannot afford By Russ George The Daily Climate VANCOUVER, British Columbia – The billions of dollars required by geoengineers to scrub the atmosphere of carbon will bankrupt us. I have a cheaper solution. I met David Keith, often described as the father of geoengineering, a few years back in the backstage green room in New York City as we were preparing to go on stage for a TED event. TED talks charge high ticket prices for lavishly produced events on worldly topics that the intelligentsia and cognoscenti of technology and science like to attend. David, Martin Hoffert and I were speaking that night on a common theme: What to do about anthropogenic carbon dioxide.Geoengineers are presenting ideas that require hundreds of billions, even trillions, of dollars to solve the crisis of human-driven climate change.Marty, retired now from New York University, is a voluble advocate for getting off fossil fuels to avoid climate change impacts. David is a physics professor at Harvard University and is backed by Bill Gates. He's proud to be the father of the term geoengineering, where we alter the climate to suit our needs instead of Nature's. Me? I am displeased to have the term hung around my neck. But I am an old hippy tree-planter who has spent life living outside of the box, with some bit of help from folks inside said box. I compromise and call myself an ecoengineer.What transpired in the green room started out as a friendly exchange of views that became a heated discussion and rapidly devolved into an argument with sparks flying. My premise: The cost of dealing with anthropogenic CO2 must be and can be a tiny fraction of the cost demanded by those working in the field inside the box. David and other geoengineers are presenting ideas and inventions to the world that require hundreds of billions, even trillions, of dollars to solve the crisis of human-driven climate change. David's artificial trees – named after plants' abilities to pull carbon dioxide from the air – consist of vast arrays of fans blowing our carbon-rich air over a pool of sodium hydroxide. Other plans would have us send a fleet of planes or blimps aloft to seed the clouds with light-reflecting particles, much as a large volcanic explosion do. More farfetched are plans to lob trillions of mirrors into orbit to deflect the sun's energy.My work over the past two decades shows that we can solve a large part of the crisis for a small fraction of the cost. And because it's ecoengineering, we're restoring ecosystems at the same time we're solving climate change.Last summer, in the largest geoengineering project to date, I oversaw an ocean experiment that sowed 120 tons of iron sulphate and iron ore rock dust into the Pacific Ocean more than 200 miles west of British Columbia's Haida Gwaii islands. The premise was simple: Iron, acting as a fertilizer, would trigger a phytoplankton bloom that would pull carbon from the ocean. We'd simply be replenishing the sea with a natural mineral micronutrient. The whole ocean food chain would benefit, as well as the Haida, who have suffered from diminished salmon runs. Our carbon emissions are an immediate, cataclysmic problem for the oceans that make up more than 70 percent of our blue planet. We
