Re: [geo] Environmentalists that denounce climate eng research; what to do?
Attenborough et al (link or website?) certainly must be referring to SRM. Otherwise, would the world be less insane, delusional and fascist if we turned off the 20 Gt/yr CDR that is naturally occurring? Another reason CDR and SRM deserve separate discussions (with all due respect for this "geoengineering" google group).Greg From: Bernard Mercer <bmer...@mercerenvironment.net> To: "andrew.lock...@gmail.com" <andrew.lock...@gmail.com>; durbrow <durb...@gmail.com>; geoengineering <geoengineering@googlegroups.com> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 11:45 AM Subject: RE: [geo] Environmentalists that denounce climate eng research; what to do? #yiv5781045918 #yiv5781045918 -- _filtered #yiv5781045918 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5781045918 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5781045918 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv5781045918 #yiv5781045918 p.yiv5781045918MsoNormal, #yiv5781045918 li.yiv5781045918MsoNormal, #yiv5781045918 div.yiv5781045918MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}#yiv5781045918 a:link, #yiv5781045918 span.yiv5781045918MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5781045918 a:visited, #yiv5781045918 span.yiv5781045918MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5781045918 p.yiv5781045918msonormal0, #yiv5781045918 li.yiv5781045918msonormal0, #yiv5781045918 div.yiv5781045918msonormal0 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11.0pt;}#yiv5781045918 span.yiv5781045918EmailStyle20 {color:windowtext;}#yiv5781045918 .yiv5781045918MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv5781045918 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv5781045918 div.yiv5781045918WordSection1 {}#yiv5781045918 I think it is similar to the problems associated with climate scepticism. I remember when I first heard about “mirrors in space” as proposed (I think) by Paul Crutzen, in the early 2000s. I’ve worked in the biodiversity arena since the mid-1980s, and I was horrified. It seemed a license to continue spewing out CO2. The problem is our collective yen to mythologize: that image of great big reflectors in space still probably underpins much of the hostility to geoengineering (apologies in advance to Oliver Morton as I am sure he goes into all of this in his book, which I have, but not yet read). Now of course (and in large part by learning from the exchanges on this list) I know better – of course we need geoengineering, and in addition we now know (which I don’t think most of us knew in say, c.2006) that we need a massive amount of negative emissions. DAC was not on the table as a serious solution, back then, but it is now. So that is what I think this community needs to concentrate on its media/celebrity outreach: the potential of geoengineering solutions to remove atmospheric CO2. That is a quite different narrative from the prevention of global warming by deflecting solar rays. From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of Andrew Lockley Sent: 28 August 2017 19:37 To: durbrow <durb...@gmail.com>; geoengineering <geoengineering@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [geo] Environmentalists that denounce climate eng research; what to do? Centrally controlled CE certainly isn't the only approach. It can be democratic or decentralised. I'm working on a paper concerning decentralised governance A On 28 Aug 2017 19:29, "Eric Durbrow" <durb...@gmail.com> wrote: Attenborough referred to climate engineering as “fascist" (he meant that a small group of people would control the climate) and Gore has called it “insane…delusional". Bill McKibben called it a "serious deadend” Is it too late to reach out to environmental leaders and get them to change their minds for *research* in climate engineering? E.g. an open-letter editorial in the Times, etc. Or do celebrity leaders actually have minimal impact among grassroots environmentalists and activists? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email togeoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email togeoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.googl
RE: [geo] Environmentalists that denounce climate eng research; what to do?
I think it is similar to the problems associated with climate scepticism. I remember when I first heard about “mirrors in space” as proposed (I think) by Paul Crutzen, in the early 2000s. I’ve worked in the biodiversity arena since the mid-1980s, and I was horrified. It seemed a license to continue spewing out CO2. The problem is our collective yen to mythologize: that image of great big reflectors in space still probably underpins much of the hostility to geoengineering (apologies in advance to Oliver Morton as I am sure he goes into all of this in his book, which I have, but not yet read). Now of course (and in large part by learning from the exchanges on this list) I know better – of course we need geoengineering, and in addition we now know (which I don’t think most of us knew in say, c.2006) that we need a massive amount of negative emissions. DAC was not on the table as a serious solution, back then, but it is now. So that is what I think this community needs to concentrate on its media/celebrity outreach: the potential of geoengineering solutions to remove atmospheric CO2. That is a quite different narrative from the prevention of global warming by deflecting solar rays. From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Lockley Sent: 28 August 2017 19:37 To: durbrow <durb...@gmail.com>; geoengineering <geoengineering@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [geo] Environmentalists that denounce climate eng research; what to do? Centrally controlled CE certainly isn't the only approach. It can be democratic or decentralised. I'm working on a paper concerning decentralised governance A On 28 Aug 2017 19:29, "Eric Durbrow" <durb...@gmail.com<mailto:durb...@gmail.com>> wrote: Attenborough referred to climate engineering as “fascist" (he meant that a small group of people would control the climate) and Gore has called it “insane…delusional". Bill McKibben called it a "serious deadend” Is it too late to reach out to environmental leaders and get them to change their minds for *research* in climate engineering? E.g. an open-letter editorial in the Times, etc. Or do celebrity leaders actually have minimal impact among grassroots environmentalists and activists? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. __ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com __ __ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com __ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [geo] Environmentalists that denounce climate eng research; what to do?
With respect to climate, the idea that mitigation alone is a full solution to the carbon problem is what is "insane", "delusional", and a "serious deadend". Our current trajectory unequivocally commits us to CDR geoengineering at the very least, and the IPCC is (finally as of the latest assessment) in agreement on this: 1.5 degrees is almost certainly impossible without large-scale CDR, and 2 degrees is very likely impossible without it. As for peak-shaving and preventing the worst effects of climate change with SRM geoengineering, that remains an open debate. I am assuming that Attenborough, Gore, and McKibben are thinking primarily of SRM when they are casting aspersions on geoengineering. But lets see if they still say it is an insane, delusional, and fascist idea when Florida, Beijing, etc. start to disappear underwater in the 2040s... On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Eric Durbrowwrote: > > > Attenborough referred to climate engineering as “fascist" (he meant that a > small group of people would control the climate) and Gore has called it > “insane…delusional". Bill McKibben called it a "serious deadend” > > Is it too late to reach out to environmental leaders and get them to > change their minds for *research* in climate engineering? E.g. an > open-letter editorial in the Times, etc. > > Or do celebrity leaders actually have minimal impact among grassroots > environmentalists and activists? > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [geo] Environmentalists that denounce climate eng research; what to do?
Centrally controlled CE certainly isn't the only approach. It can be democratic or decentralised. I'm working on a paper concerning decentralised governance A On 28 Aug 2017 19:29, "Eric Durbrow"wrote: > > > Attenborough referred to climate engineering as “fascist" (he meant that a > small group of people would control the climate) and Gore has called it > “insane…delusional". Bill McKibben called it a "serious deadend” > > Is it too late to reach out to environmental leaders and get them to > change their minds for *research* in climate engineering? E.g. an > open-letter editorial in the Times, etc. > > Or do celebrity leaders actually have minimal impact among grassroots > environmentalists and activists? > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.