subject:"Re\: \[GNC\] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong\?"

Is there any way to get a report showing amounts 'as entered'. That is, 
are all foreign transactions converted by those rules in aggregate, or 
is there a method for getting the actual converted amounts tallied? (for 
example, the exchange rate might vary enough from the beginning of the 
report period vs. the end resulting in always having an incorrect report.)


Would employing trading accounts facilitate this with the currency 
splits existing in the transaction instead of the report having to 
estimate by one of those rules?


Regards,
Adrien

On 11/30/23 8:10 PM, john wrote:




On Nov 30, 2023, at 16:40, Derek Atkins  wrote:

Even more, the REPORTS only use #2, not #1, to figure out the "value" of
an account in another currency.


Not exactly. Most reports have a Price Source option that allows you to select 
how commodity prices and currency exchange rates are retrieved. Last up through 
report date, closest to report date, and Most recent use the indicated date 
filter to select a price from the pricedb. The other two, Average cost of 
purchases weighted by volume and Weighted average of all transactions in the 
past calculate the price from the splits in all transactions in all accounts.


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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

2023-11-30 Thread john

> On Nov 30, 2023, at 16:40, Derek Atkins  wrote:
> 
> Even more, the REPORTS only use #2, not #1, to figure out the "value" of
> an account in another currency.

Not exactly. Most reports have a Price Source option that allows you to select 
how commodity prices and currency exchange rates are retrieved. Last up through 
report date, closest to report date, and Most recent use the indicated date 
filter to select a price from the pricedb. The other two, Average cost of 
purchases weighted by volume and Weighted average of all transactions in the 
past calculate the price from the splits in all transactions in all accounts.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

2023-11-30 Thread Derek Atkins

Hi,

GnuCash stores the exchange rates in two ways:

1) In the transaction, it lets you record the exact conversion.
2) In the priceDB, it lets you input one price per day.

When you enter a transaction like #1, gnucash will automatically create a
pricedb entry for you.  In other words, you do NOT need manually enter
prices, you just need to manually enter a cross-currency transaction, and
gnucash will add the pricedb.

This could be a problem, if you enter in the wrong exchange rate -- it
will enter incorrect data into the pricedb.

Even more, the REPORTS only use #2, not #1, to figure out the "value" of
an account in another currency.

Therefore, I suggest you look in the PriceDB at a date similar to the date
of the transaction itself, and ensure you don't have some other exchange
rate listed.

-derek

On Thu, November 30, 2023 7:02 pm, David Kirkby wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 20:50, Adrien Monteleone <
> adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:
>
>> As Derek noted, this is likely not a bug, but an issue with your pricedb
>> in your main file.
>>
>> I too lost the plot, and forgot that those reports can target which
>> price to use for such cases.
>>
>> Your options then are to:
>>
>> 1. Play with the price target option
>> 2. Edit, or delete the offending price(s) in the pricedb if not needed
>> elsewhere.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrien
>
>
> I am in bed now using my mobile phone so don’t have access to GnuCash to
> look at anything.
>
> I was  unaware of the price db, and have not *knowingly* set anything up
> like I see described here
>
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Online_Quotes
>
> Maybe at some time I did mess around and set something up, and that’s what
> it is using.
>
> However, I have noticed sometimes that GnuCash does suggest a number of
> GBP
> to enter for a  USD transaction, and it’s “guess” is not wildly out.  I
> have not taken much notice of the values, but they seem to imply £1 is
> worth more than a USD, but not twice as much.
>
> I am not sure how GnuCash will ever be able to make a meaningful report
> that includes any conversion from pounds to dollars, particularly when
> each
> transaction will have a different exchange rate.
>
> I have tried to keep things simple when USD or EUR payments are made by
> bank transfer, by recording only amount in pounds received. I am not going
> to itemise the bank charge, as it is not recorded in any statement. But
> with PayPal the transaction fee is always recorded in the statements from
> PayPal. There’s a fee even on GBP transactions.
>
> Dave
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   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 20:50, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> As Derek noted, this is likely not a bug, but an issue with your pricedb
> in your main file.
>
> I too lost the plot, and forgot that those reports can target which
> price to use for such cases.
>
> Your options then are to:
>
> 1. Play with the price target option
> 2. Edit, or delete the offending price(s) in the pricedb if not needed
> elsewhere.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien

I am in bed now using my mobile phone so don’t have access to GnuCash to
look at anything.

I was  unaware of the price db, and have not *knowingly* set anything up
like I see described here

https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Online_Quotes

Maybe at some time I did mess around and set something up, and that’s what
it is using.

However, I have noticed sometimes that GnuCash does suggest a number of GBP
to enter for a  USD transaction, and it’s “guess” is not wildly out.  I
have not taken much notice of the values, but they seem to imply £1 is
worth more than a USD, but not twice as much.

I am not sure how GnuCash will ever be able to make a meaningful report
that includes any conversion from pounds to dollars, particularly when each
transaction will have a different exchange rate.

I have tried to keep things simple when USD or EUR payments are made by
bank transfer, by recording only amount in pounds received. I am not going
to itemise the bank charge, as it is not recorded in any statement. But
with PayPal the transaction fee is always recorded in the statements from
PayPal. There’s a fee even on GBP transactions.

Dave
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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

As Derek noted, this is likely not a bug, but an issue with your pricedb 
in your main file.


I too lost the plot, and forgot that those reports can target which 
price to use for such cases.


Your options then are to:

1. Play with the price target option
2. Edit, or delete the offending price(s) in the pricedb if not needed 
elsewhere.


Regards,
Adrien

On 11/30/23 7:20 AM, David Kirkby wrote:

I have lost the plot I think.

I think there's a bug in the reporting.

Here's a demo account, with the GBP shown correctly for USD sales, but the
value of the USD sales is not given. I don't know if that's intentional or
not, but having both the GBP and USD would seem nice.

[image: image.png]


But the ones I produced for my accountant have the foreign currency too,
which is nice. I have not blanked out the $540 transaction, but left that.
The GBP amount is wrong. But I'm not sure what the intended behavior of the
report is.

[image: image.png]

Looking in the bank account for that transaction I see
[image: image.png]
In the trial balance

[image: image.png]

So there are 3 different GBP figures for these reports.
1) $540 was converted by the bank into £424.00. It shown as that in the
bank account.
2) P shows $540 and £441.67. The £441.67 is wrong (£17.67 too high).
3) Trial balance shows £434.98 which is also wrong. (£10.98 too low)

I suppose it's worth reporting this as a bug, despite the fact I can't
reproduce it in a test case, which would obviously be most helpful to the
developers.


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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

First, yes, that warning is for when you try to delete the *Invoice*, 
not the payment. (same for Bills with Vendors)


Second, as you may have noticed, inline images are not possible with 
this list, you have to attach them separately. Because of that, if you 
can, please give them some meaningful name other than 'image'. (or 
perhaps number them) When it is just one, that is no big deal, but when 
you are including 4 or 5, like here, it takes some time opening each to 
figure out where it belongs in the post.


Regards,
Adrien

On 11/30/23 8:04 AM, David Kirkby wrote:

This was the message I was thinking of - you can't delete from accounts
receivable without unposting.


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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

2023-11-30 Thread Derek Atkins

In this data file there is a transaction that converts from 540 to 424. 
It sounds like that is correct.  My only guess as to the reporting is that
there are PriceDB entries in your real data file that are "incorrect" for
the actual transaction days.  In the data file you posted, there is only a
single PriceDB entry for USD to GBP with a value of 106/135..  And Lo! and
Behold, 540 * 106 / 135 = 424.

I think this explains why the reports work for the test data.

And you are correct, you cannot remove an INVOICE transaction from AR/AP
directly, you need to unpost the invoice to remove it.  This is by design.

-derek

On Thu, November 30, 2023 9:04 am, David Kirkby wrote:
> This was the message I was thinking of - you can't delete from accounts
> receivable without unposting.
>
> [image: image.png]
>
>
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 13:37, David Kirkby
> 
> wrote:
>
>> The attached has the single USD/GBP transaction that I'm having problems
>> with the reporting with. But the reporting is fine on this demo.
>>
>> On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 13:20, David Kirkby
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 12:13, Adrien Monteleone <
>>> adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:
>>>
 Apparently so!

>>>
>>> I have lost the plot I think.
>>>
>>> I think there's a bug in the reporting.
>>>
>>> Here's a demo account, with the GBP shown correctly for USD sales, but
>>> the value of the USD sales is not given. I don't know if that's
>>> intentional
>>> or not, but having both the GBP and USD would seem nice.
>>>
>>> [image: image.png]
>>>
>>>
>>> But the ones I produced for my accountant have the foreign currency
>>> too,
>>> which is nice. I have not blanked out the $540 transaction, but left
>>> that.
>>> The GBP amount is wrong. But I'm not sure what the intended behavior of
>>> the
>>> report is.
>>>
>>> [image: image.png]
>>>
>>> Looking in the bank account for that transaction I see
>>> [image: image.png]
>>> In the trial balance
>>>
>>> [image: image.png]
>>>
>>> So there are 3 different GBP figures for these reports.
>>> 1) $540 was converted by the bank into £424.00. It shown as that in the
>>> bank account.
>>> 2) P shows $540 and £441.67. The £441.67 is wrong (£17.67 too high).
>>> 3) Trial balance shows £434.98 which is also wrong. (£10.98 too low)
>>>
>>> I suppose it's worth reporting this as a bug, despite the fact I can't
>>> reproduce it in a test case, which would obviously be most helpful to
>>> the
>>> developers.
>>>
>>
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-- 
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   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 12:13, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Apparently so!
>

I have lost the plot I think.

I think there's a bug in the reporting.

Here's a demo account, with the GBP shown correctly for USD sales, but the
value of the USD sales is not given. I don't know if that's intentional or
not, but having both the GBP and USD would seem nice.

[image: image.png]

But the ones I produced for my accountant have the foreign currency too,
which is nice. I have not blanked out the $540 transaction, but left that.
The GBP amount is wrong. But I'm not sure what the intended behavior of the
report is.

[image: image.png]

Looking in the bank account for that transaction I see
[image: image.png]
In the trial balance

[image: image.png]

So there are 3 different GBP figures for these reports.
1) $540 was converted by the bank into £424.00. It shown as that in the
bank account.
2) P shows $540 and £441.67. The £441.67 is wrong (£17.67 too high).
3) Trial balance shows £434.98 which is also wrong. (£10.98 too low)

I suppose it's worth reporting this as a bug, despite the fact I can't
reproduce it in a test case, which would obviously be most helpful to the
developers.
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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?


Apparently so!

You can't delete the *invoice* but you can delete the payment.

I don't ever recall anything different and I've been using GnuCash for 
10+ years.


Of course, you do get the confirmation for deleting the payment, but it 
isn't an error.


Deleting the payment *should* 'unattach' it.

Regards,
Adrien

On 11/30/23 4:00 AM, David Kirkby wrote:


I think I must be going mad.

I thought in the past I had always observed an error message if trying to
delete a transaction in the bank account that was attached to a posted
invoice, using the business features and AR or AP. .

But I just checked a previous installation on another computer (slightly
earlier release on Linux) and found it is possible to simply delete an
entry from the bank account, despite it being attached to a posted invoice.

Did I just dream there was an error message generated if one tried to
delete a transaction in the bank account, for which there was a posted
invoice?


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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 09:18, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Once again - please remember to reply to the list...
>
OOps.

>
> It was several replies up the thread, but I was replying to your point
> about being able to delete payments for only some currencies. (though
> you've now discovered that currency isn't a limitation)
>
> Here was my posting:
>
> > Let's get some terminology and workflow straight:
> >
> > 1. Using the Business Features, Invoices and Bills are entered in a
> separate UI, *not* directly in an account register.
> >
> > 2. Posting these, results in transactions appearing in the respective
> A/R or A/P accounts.
> >
> > 3. Those transactions are immutable at this point and cannot be edited
> or deleted from either the AR/AP accounts, or the other side of their
> transactions. (Income accounts in the case of Invoices, or Expense accounts
> in the case of Bills) At this point, no bank account or other 'payment
> account' is involved.
> >
> > 4. Payments can either be entered via the 'Process Payment' function, or
> entered directly into an appropriate account register. (or imported into
> said register) If directly entering or importing, you then have to
> right-click the transaction and choose 'Assign as payment' to bring up the
> 'Process Payment' dialog to formally link the payment transaction to an
> Invoice or Bill. These transactions affect and appear in the source account
> and either AR/AP accordingly. They are always editable and delete-able from
> any affected register. The Invoice/Bill posting status has no bearing on
> this. However, while you can edit them directly, you generally should do so
> by right-clicking and choosing 'Edit payment'.
>
> Does that clear up the issue concerning deleting payments?
>
> Note, I think there is a bug concerning invoices showing still as paid
> after a payment is deleted, but that might only be in the Invoice UI.
> I'm not sure that is the case everywhere. I'd have to investigate. I
> also don't know if that bug has been filed.
>
> Regardless, if after deleting a payment, you unpost and repost the
> invoice, it should now show as unpaid since GnuCash can't find the
> original payment to re-link it.
>
> There is nothing odd about being able to delete a payment.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>

I think I must be going mad.

I thought in the past I had always observed an error message if trying to
delete a transaction in the bank account that was attached to a posted
invoice, using the business features and AR or AP. .

But I just checked a previous installation on another computer (slightly
earlier release on Linux) and found it is possible to simply delete an
entry from the bank account, despite it being attached to a posted invoice.

Did I just dream there was an error message generated if one tried to
delete a transaction in the bank account, for which there was a posted
invoice?

Dave
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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

Once again - please remember to reply to the list...

It was several replies up the thread, but I was replying to your point
about being able to delete payments for only some currencies. (though
you've now discovered that currency isn't a limitation)

Here was my posting:

Let's get some terminology and workflow straight:

1. Using the Business Features, Invoices and Bills are entered in a separate
UI, *not* directly in an account register.

2. Posting these, results in transactions appearing in the respective A/R or
A/P accounts.

3. Those transactions are immutable at this point and cannot be edited or
deleted from either the AR/AP accounts, or the other side of their
transactions. (Income accounts in the case of Invoices, or Expense accounts in
the case of Bills) At this point, no bank account or other 'payment account' is
involved.

4. Payments can either be entered via the 'Process Payment' function, or
entered directly into an appropriate account register. (or imported into said
register) If directly entering or importing, you then have to right-click the
transaction and choose 'Assign as payment' to bring up the 'Process Payment'
dialog to formally link the payment transaction to an Invoice or Bill. These
transactions affect and appear in the source account and either AR/AP
accordingly. They are always editable and delete-able from any affected
register. The Invoice/Bill posting status has no bearing on this. However,
while you can edit them directly, you generally should do so by right-clicking
and choosing 'Edit payment'.

Does that clear up the issue concerning deleting payments?

Note, I think there is a bug concerning invoices showing still as paid
after a payment is deleted, but that might only be in the Invoice UI.
I'm not sure that is the case everywhere. I'd have to investigate. I
also don't know if that bug has been filed.

Regardless, if after deleting a payment, you unpost and repost the
invoice, it should now show as unpaid since GnuCash can't find the
original payment to re-link it.

There is nothing odd about being able to delete a payment.

Regards,
Adrien

p.s.—I also attached your images you sent here for anyone else following
along.

On 11/29/23 6:11 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
I can’t seem to find the relevant post of yours, but I realise my current accounts are corrupted in some way, if I right click on any transaction in the bank account I see this.

Note the invoice is posted - I can jump to see if I want, and it will show as PAID. Then if I click "Delete transaction" I see this.

If I click "Delete transaction", the money disappears from the bank account,
but the invoice is still showing as paid.

I thought this issue was only happening with non-GBP transactions, but I can
see I can do it with GBP transactions too. Em,. I need to retrieve an older
backup, where there was a message saying the transaction was posted, and it
needed to be unposted before being deleted. ___
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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 at 03:48, Alan Hopkins  wrote:

>Hello David
>We receive and pay for a multitude of currencies.  This made life
>complicated for a small business so we decided to use a FX service - we
>use OFX because we managed to get to them in their early days and were
>offered a special continuing deal.
>However, there are quite a few others too - TransferWise (now just
>called Wise) were probably the initiators in this area.
>The way it works is that we tell them what we need to pay in FX, we pay
>in our local currency and the bill is paid to the supplier in their
>currency.  On the receipt side, the client pays into a bank account
>local to them, the OFX service notifies us of the receipt, and then we
>can either convert to our local currency immediately or at some time
>over the next 2 months when we wish - this has an advantage (generally)
>in being able to get a more favourable exchange rate and thus a better
>return.
>The service costs less than banks - they provide a better exchange rate
>and have lower fees - and our accounts are all in local currency.  We
>just adjust our invoices/bills according to the rate received/paid.
>Easy peasy.
>I'm not sure that will help you but it just might!
>Cheers
>Hop
>

A  significant percentage of my transactions go via PayPal, so I don't
think that would work too well for me. It might sometimes, especially on
the rare higher value transaction which is paid by bank transfer.

Dave
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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

2023-11-29 Thread Alan Hopkins

   Hello David
   We receive and pay for a multitude of currencies.  This made life
   complicated for a small business so we decided to use a FX service - we
   use OFX because we managed to get to them in their early days and were
   offered a special continuing deal.
   However, there are quite a few others too - TransferWise (now just
   called Wise) were probably the initiators in this area.
   The way it works is that we tell them what we need to pay in FX, we pay
   in our local currency and the bill is paid to the supplier in their
   currency.  On the receipt side, the client pays into a bank account
   local to them, the OFX service notifies us of the receipt, and then we
   can either convert to our local currency immediately or at some time
   over the next 2 months when we wish - this has an advantage (generally)
   in being able to get a more favourable exchange rate and thus a better
   return.
   The service costs less than banks - they provide a better exchange rate
   and have lower fees - and our accounts are all in local currency.  We
   just adjust our invoices/bills according to the rate received/paid.
   Easy peasy.
   I'm not sure that will help you but it just might!
   Cheers
   Hop

   On 30/11/23 11:05, David Kirkby wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 at 23:28, Adrien Monteleone <
[1]adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:


You can set your bank accounts nested however you want. GnuCash doesn't
care as there is nothing special about such accounts.

Gnucash *does* care about types Accounts Receivable and Accounts
Payable. (regardless of what you name them)

But exactly how these should be structured is still to be determined.

Regards,
Adrien



Is it possible, and so how, to move the A/R USD account directly under the
assets and not under the GBP account? When I set up accounts like that, the
P and trial balance agreed with each other.

I am still puzzled it’s now possible to delete a non-GBP transaction that
has been posted.  I think that’s a new problem , within the last day or
two.  I would need to go back to an earlier version to be sure.

I charge customer extra for non-GBP transactions, anti always say GBP will
be cheaper. They certainly do cause an extra overhead with software issues,
accounting issues, the need to maintain 3 price lists.

A few years ago I reported a bug to the bug tracker related to non-GBP
currencies. I think it was a report that was wrong, but that issue got
resolved.

Dave.




On 11/29/23 5:05 PM, David Kirkby wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 at 23:02, David Kirkby <

[2]drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk>

wrote:


But think about it, the fact one is supposed to set bank accounts that
way, probably implies one needs to do the same with A/P and A/R.

Dave.


I meant to say “thinking about it “  not “think about it “

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References

   1. mailto:adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net
   2. mailto:drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
   3. mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org
   4. https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
   5. mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org
   6. https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 at 23:35, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Since all of them are of type A/R and this isn't working with your
> current tree arrangement, I'd say you found a bug in the reports. You
> might want to file one and ask if you should separately file the same
> for the others.
>
> When you do so, create and upload a test file with just enough
> transactions to indicate the failure/discrepancy. (it will likely be
> requested anyway)
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>

I have tried to create a test case and demonstrate the problem but I
couldn’t reproduce it.  But my test case probably didn’t have the accounts
nested the way they are.

I have occasionally had an error message when trying to exit that indicated
GnuCash was in the middle of an operation. The only way out is to forcibly
stop the program.

Another issue I have found is that it’s possible to pay an invoice but it
not marked as paid. This then often results in the error message that I
indicated in the previous paragraph.

I am seriously wondering if it is safer to tart again. It is not too
painful with two copies of GnuCash running. One can copy/information from
one set of accounts to another.

Dave
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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?


On 11/29/23 6:05 PM, David Kirkby wrote:

Is it possible, and so how, to move the A/R USD account directly under the
assets and not under the GBP account? When I set up accounts like that, the
P and trial balance agreed with each other.


On the Accounts tab, select that USD account and click the Edit toolbar 
button. In the bottom right pane of the Edit Dialog, select the parent 
to be Assets instead of the A/R GBP account. And if that works, I'd do 
the same for the EUR account.



I am still puzzled it’s now possible to delete a non-GBP transaction that
has been posted.  I think that’s a new problem , within the last day or
two.  I would need to go back to an earlier version to be sure.


I'm still not clear on what you are describing here. See my 
points/questions in the other reply.


Regards,
Adrien

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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 at 23:28, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> You can set your bank accounts nested however you want. GnuCash doesn't
> care as there is nothing special about such accounts.
>
> Gnucash *does* care about types Accounts Receivable and Accounts
> Payable. (regardless of what you name them)
>
> But exactly how these should be structured is still to be determined.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien

Is it possible, and so how, to move the A/R USD account directly under the
assets and not under the GBP account? When I set up accounts like that, the
P and trial balance agreed with each other.

I am still puzzled it’s now possible to delete a non-GBP transaction that
has been posted.  I think that’s a new problem , within the last day or
two.  I would need to go back to an earlier version to be sure.

I charge customer extra for non-GBP transactions, anti always say GBP will
be cheaper. They certainly do cause an extra overhead with software issues,
accounting issues, the need to maintain 3 price lists.

A few years ago I reported a bug to the bug tracker related to non-GBP
currencies. I think it was a report that was wrong, but that issue got
resolved.

Dave.

>
> On 11/29/23 5:05 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 at 23:02, David Kirkby <
> drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> But think about it, the fact one is supposed to set bank accounts that
> >> way, probably implies one needs to do the same with A/P and A/R.
> >>
> >> Dave.
> >>
> >
> > I meant to say “thinking about it “  not “think about it “
>
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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

Since all of them are of type A/R and this isn't working with your 
current tree arrangement, I'd say you found a bug in the reports. You 
might want to file one and ask if you should separately file the same 
for the others.


When you do so, create and upload a test file with just enough 
transactions to indicate the failure/discrepancy. (it will likely be 
requested anyway)


Regards,
Adrien

On 11/29/23 5:02 PM, David Kirkby wrote:

I checked and all are accounts receivable. I also checked under liabilities
and see the corresponding accounts are accounts payable.


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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

Receivables and Payables are not tied to each other. So there is no 
concern with matching their respective set of currencies. (that is, you 
don't need an HKD A/R account if you never receive funds in that 
currency for an invoice.)


Regards,
Adrien

On 11/29/23 5:02 PM, David Kirkby wrote:

The list of currencies for A/P & A/R are not the same - for example I
sometimes buy in HKD, but don’t sell in them. But I don’t think there’s any
reason they should be the same.


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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

You can set your bank accounts nested however you want. GnuCash doesn't 
care as there is nothing special about such accounts.


Gnucash *does* care about types Accounts Receivable and Accounts 
Payable. (regardless of what you name them)


But exactly how these should be structured is still to be determined.

Regards,
Adrien

On 11/29/23 5:05 PM, David Kirkby wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 at 23:02, David Kirkby 
wrote:


But think about it, the fact one is supposed to set bank accounts that
way, probably implies one needs to do the same with A/P and A/R.

Dave.



I meant to say “thinking about it “  not “think about it “


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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 at 23:02, David Kirkby 
wrote:

> But think about it, the fact one is supposed to set bank accounts that
> way, probably implies one needs to do the same with A/P and A/R.
>
> Dave.
>

I meant to say “thinking about it “  not “think about it “

>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 at 20:57, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Thanks. I saw that from the bug report.
>
> Please double-check all three of those and make sure they are of 'type'
> "Accounts Receivable".
>
> Regards,
> Adrien

Hi,
I checked and all are accounts receivable. I also checked under liabilities
and see the corresponding accounts are accounts payable.

The list of currencies for A/P & A/R are not the same - for example I
sometimes buy in HKD, but don’t sell in them. But I don’t think there’s any
reason they should be the same.

If I look at the documentation, it doesn’t show one bank being a child
account of another. But as I indicated, the documentation does not cover
the A/R and A/P. But think about it, the fact one is supposed to set bank
accounts that way, probably implies one needs to do the same with A/P and
A/R.

Dave.
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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?


Thanks. I saw that from the bug report.

Please double-check all three of those and make sure they are of 'type' 
"Accounts Receivable".


Regards,
Adrien

On 11/29/23 2:47 PM, David Kirkby wrote:

This is what I have. I changed the name of one account, adding "GBP" as you
suggested.


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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?


I found the screenshot in your Documentation bug report.

The question of a proper tree still stands, but at least I'm clear that 
you *aren't* currently nested one level too deep. (be careful when 
trying to transcribe your tree as it appeared you had an extra level in 
there!)


Regards,
Adrien

On 11/29/23 2:24 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
Maybe expand that part of your tree in the Accounts tab and send us a 
screenshot? (and maybe do the same for A/P while you are at it, so we 
can put that to rest as well)


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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 at 20:43, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Relax, have some more beer. Read over my other replies. And perhaps
> those screenshots I suggested in the other response will clear things up
> for both of us. From what I can tell, you can likely just re-parent your
> accounts to solve this.
>

This is what I have. I changed the name of one account, adding "GBP" as you
suggested.

[image: image.png]
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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?


On 11/29/23 10:39 AM, David Kirkby wrote:

On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 at 15:55, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:


If so, I'd rename it.

It is possible you don't even need it if that is your book currency.
Just stick with the original Assets:Accounts Receivable, but you should
verify that. (a single currency book, just has the one account)

Either way, I don't think those USD & EUR A/R accounts should be
children of a child of A/R. (at least that is how your indentation reads
below)

Make a copy of your book and test out if one of these does the trick by
editing one bill and/or payment accordingly (you might be able to just
re-parent the account(s) though:

Assets:A/R
--Assets:A/R (GBP)
--Assets:A/R (USD)
--Assets:A/R (EUR)

or perhaps more simply:

Assets:A/R
--Assets:A/R (USD)
--Assets:A/R (EUR)

Where each child is specifically set to those named currencies and the
parent A/R is in your book currency. (assuming GBP here)

Your Assets:PayPal account tree has no bearing on the Business Features.
They *should* just be generic asset accounts.

Regards,
Adrien



Unfortunately I don't think I have another option but to start fresh with a
completely new account and enter all the transactions again. That's a PITA,
but I don't see another method I would have any confidence in.


Relax, have some more beer. Read over my other replies. And perhaps 
those screenshots I suggested in the other response will clear things up 
for both of us. From what I can tell, you can likely just re-parent your 
accounts to solve this.


You *might* have to unpost/repost *one* set of invoices, but that is a 
worst case. I don't think you'll have to. (fingers crossed for you)



I did what you said, and moved the accounts. The one with the least
transactions is the EUR account. After moving them I noticed two problems.

1) It is possible to post an invoice, let the customer pay it, then delete
the transaction from the bank account. Nothing is stopping the fact that
the invoice has been posted and paid. For GBP transactions it is not
possible to delete it from the bank account unless the invoice is unposted.



First, what transaction are you deleting 'from the bank account'?

Second, WHY would you do such a thing? (though kudos for testing it)

Third, Is that EUR (and the USD) A/R accounts of *TYPE* "Accounts 
Receivable"? (edit the account from the Accounts Tab and check the lower 
left pane for the type)


Fourth, you can certainly *edit* a payment transaction from a register. 
The invoices/bills cannot be edited without unposting.



2) The Profit and Loss account is giving both a EUR and GBP amount, but the
line with

€1,089.00 £933.27

has the EUR bit right, but the GBP is wrong.

I just set up a fresh set of accounts as a demo incase I needed to file a
bug report.  I actually used USD and GBP, but I don't think that should
make any difference. What I see is

a) The P+L does not show a USD amount, but the GBP bit is correct.
Sales (USD) £100,001.60


Let's get the account structure and types correct first, then focus on 
reports and numbers.



b) It's impossible to delete either a GBP or USD  transaction without
unposting it.



With it impossible to create a reliable report, and possible to delete
transactions that are posted, I obviously have concerns. I tried creating a
new transaction, rather than unpost  and post an old one. It is still
possible to delete it from the bank account, despite it's posted.


Let's get some terminology and workflow straight:

1. Using the Business Features, Invoices and Bills are entered in a 
separate UI, *not* directly in an account register.


2. Posting these results in transactions appearing in the respective A/R 
or A/P accounts.


3. Those transactions are immutable at this point and cannot be edited 
or deleted from either the AR/AP accounts, or the other side of their 
transactions. (Income accounts in the case of Invoices or Expense 
accounts in the case of Bills) At this point, no bank account or other 
'payment account' is involved.


4. Payments can either be entered via the 'Process Payment' function, or 
entered directly into an appropriate account register. (or imported into 
said register) If directly entering or importing, you then have to 
right-click the transaction and choose 'Assign as payment' to bring up 
the 'Process Payment' dialog to formally link the payment transaction to 
an Invoice or Bill. These transactions affect and appear in the source 
account and either AR/AP accordingly. They are always editable and 
delete-able from any affected register. The Invoice/Bill posting status 
has no bearing on this. However, while you can edit them directly, you 
generally should do so by right-clicking and choosing 'Edit payment'.


If any of this does not sound like what you are doing, those affected 
transactions need to be fixed. But let's get the account structure right 
first.


Regards,
Adrien

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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?


On 11/28/23 3:55 PM, David Kirkby wrote:

On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 at 15:55, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:


David, I could be mistaken, but I think this is influencing your
reporting problem. (if the A/P side looks like what you posted below
concerning A/R)

Assets:A/R
--Assets:A/R (GBP)
--Assets:A/R (USD)
--Assets:A/R (EUR)



That looks very logical, but would mean unposting and reposting every
single transaction. But it is very clear to both me and my account.
Nope. As I noted in the other reply, simply edit the USD & EUR accounts 
and set their parent as the main A/R account. Then rename the A/R:A/R 
account to Assets:Accounts Receivable:Accounts Receivable (GBP)


You don't have to do anything with bills or payments or any other 
transactions.


Then re-run your reports.


or perhaps more simply:

Assets:A/R
--Assets:A/R (USD)
--Assets:A/R (EUR)

Where each child is specifically set to those named currencies and the
parent A/R is in your book currency. (assuming GBP here)



As I wrote before, I don't understand this one. If I put GBP transactions
in Assets:A/R, that's no different to what I have now. It would however be
much easier, as only non-GBP transaction would need to be reposted, not
every single one. But the former looks clearer.


Unless you described your account tree incorrectly from the very 
beginning, it *is* different because you are currently nested an extra 
level deep.


Maybe expand that part of your tree in the Accounts tab and send us a 
screenshot? (and maybe do the same for A/P while you are at it, so we 
can put that to rest as well)


Regards,
Adrien

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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?


On 11/28/23 3:42 PM, David Kirkby wrote:


Make a copy of your book and test out if one of these does the trick by

editing one bill and/or payment accordingly (you might be able to just
re-parent the account(s) though:

Assets:A/R
--Assets:A/R (GBP)
--Assets:A/R (USD)
--Assets:A/R (EUR)



I see that it is different from what I have now.  In which case I assume
Assets:A/R would be a placeholder account.


Not necessarily. It would depend on how that affects reporting. But in 
that above example, you just wouldn't post to the parent.



How would I test this out?


Simply re-parent the accounts. You should not have to delete/re-enter or 
unpost/repost anything. Simply edit the relevant accounts and choose 
them all to be children of the main A/R account. (and rename the current 
Assets:A/R:A/R to be Assets:A/R:A/R (GBP) Then re-run your reports.


But as I note below, that tree arrangement may not be strictly 
necessary, though worth a test as it is easy to do.




or perhaps more simply:

Assets:A/R
--Assets:A/R (USD)
--Assets:A/R (EUR)



I'm not following you there. Are you saying make Assets:A/R a placeholder
account? If so, where do GBP accounts get posted?


Specifically in this simpler arrangement, "no". Assets:A/R would not be 
a placeholder as it is the default A/R account denominated in GBP and 
needs to be available to accept transactions.


 If not, how is this

different to what I have now? Are you saying I don't need an A/R for GBP?


You described your current tree as:


Assets:Accounts Receivable:Accounts Receivable
   Assets:Accounts Receivable:Accounts Receivable (USD)
   Assets:Accounts Receivable:Accounts Receivable (EUR)


Which implies a higher level you didn't show:

Assets:Accounts Receivable

Thus, you have TWO A/R accounts denominated in GBP, the main parent, and 
then the immediate child of that one, with two USD & EUR children.


According to what you described in your OP, your full tree here looks 
like this:


Assets
--Accounts Receivable
Accounts Receivable
--Accounts Receivable (USD)
--Accounts Receivable (EUR)

Thus, I'm suggesting in the *first* arrangement up above in this post, 
to make the USD & EUR accounts children of that first A/R parent: 
Assets:Accounts Receivable. It looks like you have them one level too deep.


Second, rename the other 'Accounts Receivable' *child* to 'Accounts 
Receivable (GBP)' and make it a *sibling* of the USD & EUR accounts,


This would achieve the first arrangement I described.

Or, to get this simpler arrangement, keep the USD & EUR children where 
they are, and move their parent up one level to be the main A/R parent 
(ditching that original parent) and keeping the USD & EUR accounts as 
its children.



Where each child is specifically set to those named currencies and the
parent A/R is in your book currency. (assuming GBP here)



I don't follow how that's different to what I have now.
(see above. It appears you have a 'higher' A/R parent, thus TWO GBP A/R 
accounts)


Regards,
Adrien

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Re: [GNC] Have I got my USD accounts set up wrong?