Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
Le 4 mars 2010 à 03:24, Gregory Casamento a écrit : I think that's a good plan. I'm late in the discussion, but that sounds good. You can count me as a mentor too. On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 5:49 PM, David Chisnall thera...@sucs.org wrote: On 3 Mar 2010, at 19:57, Fred Kiefer wrote: What we need to decide soon is whether we try a GNUstep/Etoile project or go for the bigger GNU one. Chances are higher that the later will get accepted, but there it might turn out harder to get a GNUstep/Etoile project through. Still after last years rejection I would propose the shared GNU application. Is there a reason that we can't do both? Submit an application for the GNUstep ecosystem, and if it isn't accepted but the GNU project's application is then join in with that? Cheers, Quentin. ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
I think GSoC is probably a good idea, and I guess I could mentor for it, but I doubt that I'd be very good at mentoring. People have talked about having to chase students and try to get them to do the work, and I'm just never able to do that sort of thing effectively. The potential benefits if we get a good student able to devote real time to a particularly hard problem have got to make doing this worthwhile though. I agree. If we have mentors (and it seems we do), we should definitely try to take part in GSoC. :-) Selecting good students (that don't require constant chasing) is key, but it is not easy. Thanks ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
On 3 Mar 2010, at 19:57, Fred Kiefer wrote: What we need to decide soon is whether we try a GNUstep/Etoile project or go for the bigger GNU one. Chances are higher that the later will get accepted, but there it might turn out harder to get a GNUstep/Etoile project through. Still after last years rejection I would propose the shared GNU application. Is there a reason that we can't do both? Submit an application for the GNUstep ecosystem, and if it isn't accepted but the GNU project's application is then join in with that? David -- Sent from my Apple II ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
I think that's a good plan. GC On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 5:49 PM, David Chisnall thera...@sucs.org wrote: On 3 Mar 2010, at 19:57, Fred Kiefer wrote: What we need to decide soon is whether we try a GNUstep/Etoile project or go for the bigger GNU one. Chances are higher that the later will get accepted, but there it might turn out harder to get a GNUstep/Etoile project through. Still after last years rejection I would propose the shared GNU application. Is there a reason that we can't do both? Submit an application for the GNUstep ecosystem, and if it isn't accepted but the GNU project's application is then join in with that? David -- Sent from my Apple II ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev -- Gregory Casamento yahoo/skype: greg_casamento, aol: gjcasa (240)274-9630 (Cell) ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
That was quite an interesting discussion. I asked whether we should participate in GSoC this year in any form and didn't get any reply apart from Yavor's (Who repeated my own proposal). Markus trolled a bit and attracted at least two replies. That should teach me a lesson about mailing list politics. Fred Am 27.02.2010 21:53, schrieb Gregory Casamento: Markus, On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 AM, Markus Hitter m...@jump-ing.de wrote: Am 24.02.2010 um 10:42 schrieb Fred Kiefer: They did not select us last year and we failed to attract suitable students in the years before that. Is it possible to learn something from this experience? I mean, if GNUstep isn't attractive to students it might be not attractive to non-students as well. We've never had trouble attracting students. We've only had trouble mentoring them due to limited time and resources. GC ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
On 2 Mar 2010, at 21:03, Fred Kiefer wrote: That was quite an interesting discussion. I asked whether we should participate in GSoC this year in any form and didn't get any reply apart from Yavor's (Who repeated my own proposal). I forwarded your post to the Étoilé list, but didn't get any replies. I think Eric and Niels would both be good candidates if they are students at the time, and I'd be happy to mentor someone. We will probably put in an Étoilé proposal again even if GNUstep doesn't, but a joint proposal might work better, maybe with GSWeb / OGo? If GNUstep can get places as part of the GNU umbrella, that would be great too. David -- Sent from my Apple II ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
On Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 09:13:59PM +, David Chisnall wrote: On 2 Mar 2010, at 21:03, Fred Kiefer wrote: That was quite an interesting discussion. I asked whether we should participate in GSoC this year in any form and didn't get any reply apart from Yavor's (Who repeated my own proposal). I forwarded your post to the Étoilé list, but didn't get any replies. I think Eric and Niels would both be good candidates if they are students at the time, and I'd be happy to mentor someone. We will probably put in an Étoilé proposal again even if GNUstep doesn't, but a joint proposal might work better, maybe with GSWeb / OGo? I was a bit busy with other stuff last week, but better late than never: David is right: I'll still be a student this summer, and I really like the idea of spending more time on some fun GNUstep/Étoilé project then, so GSoC would be a perfect excuse for doing exactly that. If lack of mentor-manpower really is an issue, I'd also promise to be a (relatively) low maintenance student ;-) Anyways, not entering just because of bad experiences in the past might perhaps be jumping to conclusions. Cheers, Niels ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
Am 02.03.2010 um 22:03 schrieb Fred Kiefer: Markus trolled a bit Ah, I tried to find out what's wrong with participating in SoC. So I did, thanks for the answers. and attracted at least two replies. What I didn't find out yet is, where the burden of being a mentor comes from. Looking at the Mentor Organization Participant Agreement http://code.google.com/soc/2008/mentor_step1.html, the only work beyond normal day-to-day etiquette is writing a final evaluation. In case a student comes along with a ton of questions, mailing lists are the perfect place to handle them. No additional mentor work needed other than to point the student(s) to the right list. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
On 2 Mar 2010, at 22:41, Markus Hitter wrote: What I didn't find out yet is, where the burden of being a mentor comes from. Looking at the Mentor Organization Participant Agreement http://code.google.com/soc/2008/mentor_step1.html, the only work beyond normal day-to-day etiquette is writing a final evaluation. In case a student comes along with a ton of questions, mailing lists are the perfect place to handle them. No additional mentor work needed other than to point the student(s) to the right list. Having mentored in the past, and talked to a few people who mentored on other projects, the biggest problem is absentee students. We need to be more aggressive about failing students half way if they haven't produced anything. We also need to make it clear to students in advance that the mentors job isn't to chase or motivate them, it's to help them when they have problems. Last time, I spent more time chasing a student who kept saying he was about to be productive than I would have done if I'd implemented the project myself. If we give priority to students with an established track record as contributors then this is much less likely to be a problem. One other thing to watch out for is term times. The GSoC is very US-centric. The US terms don't seem to line up with most of the rest of the world, so for most non-US students the mid-term evaluation comes a week or two after they've finished university for the year, so they haven't had time to do much work. If there is interest, then I'm happy to put together a 'GNUstep Umbella' application for GNUstep, Étoilé, and any other organisations (GAP? OG.o?) that want to join in. David ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
On 2 Mar 2010, at 21:03, Fred Kiefer wrote: That was quite an interesting discussion. I asked whether we should participate in GSoC this year in any form and didn't get any reply apart from Yavor's (Who repeated my own proposal). Sorry for not replying last week ... I spent the week doing slow,methodical stuff which didn't need much thinking ... because I was/am ill (getting better now after having seen a doctor who said it was a treatable bacterial infection of the sinuses rather than an untreatable virus). I think GSoC is probably a good idea, and I guess I could mentor for it, but I doubt that I'd be very good at mentoring. People have talked about having to chase students and try to get them to do the work, and I'm just never able to do that sort of thing effectively. The potential benefits if we get a good student able to devote real time to a particularly hard problem have got to make doing this worthwhile though. ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
Markus, On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 AM, Markus Hitter m...@jump-ing.de wrote: Am 24.02.2010 um 10:42 schrieb Fred Kiefer: They did not select us last year and we failed to attract suitable students in the years before that. Is it possible to learn something from this experience? I mean, if GNUstep isn't attractive to students it might be not attractive to non-students as well. We've never had trouble attracting students. We've only had trouble mentoring them due to limited time and resources. GC -- Gregory Casamento - GNUstep Lead/Principal Consultant, OLC, Inc. yahoo/skype: greg_casamento, aol: gjcasa (240)274-9630 (Cell) ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
Am 24.02.2010 um 10:42 schrieb Fred Kiefer: They did not select us last year and we failed to attract suitable students in the years before that. Is it possible to learn something from this experience? I mean, if GNUstep isn't attractive to students it might be not attractive to non-students as well. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
В Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:42:41 +0100, Fred Kiefer написа: if there are participate in a bigger GNU envelop project? Just to mention that since GNUstep is part of the GNU project, it is perfectly possible to participate under the GNU umbrella. ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Re: Google Summer of Code 2010
They did not select us last year and we failed to attract suitable students in the years before that. Is it possible to learn something from this experience? I mean, if GNUstep isn't attractive to students it might be not attractive to non-students as well. I don't think we failed to attract students ;-) I remember a number of very good students applying. I also remember Chris Farber who got one of the places and wrote our first key-value observing implementation as part of Google Summer of Code. That was good. I guess the main question really is not attracting students, but mentoring them. ;-) Does any of us have enough time to properly follow a student ? Thanks ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
Google Summer of Code 2010
Google summer of code registration is starting soon (http://code.google.com/intl/de-DE/soc/). Do we want to try to participate again this year? After the previous experience I am not really sure we should. They did not select us last year and we failed to attract suitable students in the years before that. Perhaps we could ask around whether there are any students in the bigger GNUstep environment interested in this and if there are participate in a bigger GNU envelop project? Fred ___ Gnustep-dev mailing list Gnustep-dev@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnustep-dev
