[Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
TO: George Pinto You say: I think Mario missed taking his medication today - again! He quotes me below when I did not write the excerpt below (Mervyn did). He refers to Merwyn as Indian when he was born and raised in Africa and lives in Canada and is of Goan ancestry. Facts, after all, should never get in the way of a neocon argument. To George: Thanks for pointing out that I mistook you for Mervyn. Maybe it was because you guys think alike. I'm not sure how I was supposed to know that Mervyn is African-Canadian. I should probably stop thinking of Goans as synonymous with Indians. However, don't you think an African-Canadian of Goan ancestry would know that Pakistani jihadis, assisted by Al Qaeda, have killed tens of thousands of innocent Indian Kashmiris since 1947, which is the point I was making? And George, please don't assume everyone is on meds just because you are. And since you are a stickler for meaningless details, please note that I am a conservative, not a neo-con. Do you even know the difference? Also, please find below my corrected post as per your comments: Mervyn writes: Last week, I was reading a book review in a Mexican paper. The book was written by a ex-CIA agent, giving her views on the failure of the CIA to catch bin Laden. Mario replies: Mervyn, don't you have anything better to do than to gleefully criticize the country that protects your sorry backsides in Canada, which is incapable of protecting itself any more? What positive suggestions do you and your country have to offer? How any African-Canadian of Goan ancestry can support the Islamic jihadi mentality that has killed over 50,000 Kashmiris since independence is beyond me. Surely you know that Bin Laden has not been caught because he is a) hiding in a hole in the ground somewhere while exhorting others to die for the cause, and b) being protected by tribesmen in Waziristan. Most of his compatriots have been captured or killed, and it is only a matter of time before he will meet with the same fate. I must remember to offer you condolences when that happens.
[Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
Folks, I think Mario missed taking his medication today - again! He quotes me below when I did not write the excerpt below (Mervyn did). He refers to Merwyn as Indian when he was born and raised in Africa and lives in Canada and is of Goan ancestry. Facts, after all, should never get in the way of a neocon argument. Regards, George --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TO: Mervyn Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED] George writes: Last week, I was reading a book review in a Mexican paper. The book was written by a ex-CIA agent, giving her views on the failure of the CIA to catch bin Laden. Mario replies: George, don't you have anything better to do than to gleefully criticize the country that protects your sorry backsides in Canada, which is incapable of protecting itself any more? What positive suggestions do you and your country have to offer? How any Indian can support the Islamic jihadi
Re: [Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
TO: Mervyn Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED] George writes: Last week, I was reading a book review in a Mexican paper. The book was written by a ex-CIA agent, giving her views on the failure of the CIA to catch bin Laden. Mario replies: George, don't you have anything better to do than to gleefully criticize the country that protects your sorry backsides in Canada, which is incapable of protecting itself any more? What positive suggestions do you and your country have to offer? How any Indian can support the Islamic jihadi mentality that has killed over 50,000 Kashmiris since independence is beyond me. Surely you know that Bin Laden has not been caught because he is a) hiding in a hole in the ground somewhere while exhorting others to die for the cause, and b) being protected by tribesmen in Waziristan. Most of his compatriots have been captured or killed, and it is only a matter of time before he will meet with the same fate. I must remember to offer you condolences when that happens.
[Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
TO: George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] George Pinto writes to Goanetters: You must be as tired as I am of having to educate Mario on this forum. He is now bombarding me with private emails even though I requested him to stop. It is unfortunate that besides his inaccurate knowledge of most matters and his mispresentation of some of my views, he continues to SPAM this list. The Delete button is getting tired. Please wish him a new hobby in the New Year. Mario replies: George, before you can presume to educate me you could use some education yourself. Generalized attacks on me are like pouring water on a duck's back, especially from people who are blissfully displaying their ignorance or bias while trying to malign me, as you are above. I'm sure most Goanetters can tell the difference. I sent you a private email because I was embarrassed with your peculiar claims that a major investigative report by a duly constituted commission of the US Government was not credible because the members of the commission were white people, without any regard to who they were as individuals or the contents of their report. I am not the only one on Goanet who has noticed your blatantly racist comment, so for you to hide behind the generalities above is a continuation of your intellectually challenged rhetoric. I would have more confidence in your education and knowledge if you had cited some of the Commission's findings, and rebutted them with facts and opinions of your own. They were not investigating capitalism, control of mid-east oil or the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, all subjects you apparently think should have been in the report. Frankly, I don't think you have even read a summary of the report. Every conclusion that the 9/11 Commission reached was thoroughly researched and documented. Several brown skinned middle-east experts were interviewed and their opinions are part of the report. The complete report is available at www.senate.gov. Before continuing his rant against white Americans in general, George should read it. Maybe he will learn something. I am not holding my breath. Here are 5 examples of George's educated mentality and/or knowledge of this subject: 1. It ( the 9/11 Commission report) is written by mostly white males in the USA who understand little about the Middle East. 2. Instead, the more popular explanation - Islamic terrorism is used for a Christian audience. Islamic terrorism is code (or politically correct in certain circles) for being anti-Muslim. No mention of any Israeli terrorism is made: neither the terrorism that radical Israeli settlers practice or the state-sponsored Israeli genocide on innocent Palestinians. 3. The Middle East situation today is yesterday's colonization which has become today's neocoloninzation. It is based on white superiority, among other issues. 4. And yes, the 9-11 would have greater credibility if it had dark-skinned people on the panel - like a few people from the Middle East who are scholars there and can offer a better perspective and some former Governor or Senator from the USA. 5. Bush had to be chaperoned by Cheney. Combined, they testified for A WHOLE HOUR with pre-screened questions. The 9/11 Commission was equally comprised of Democrats and Republicans appointed by their respective parties. There were several opponents of the Bush administration on the Commission, as anyone who followed its proceedings would know. There were several middle-east scholars who were interviewed and their views documented as part of the report, as anyone who followed its proceedings would know. The commission had one task, which was to investigate everything they could about 9/11. They were tasked with only reporting what they could verify through testimony and documentation, without any political subjectivity and rhetoric. They used the term Islamist terrorism not Islamic terrorism because all 19 of the suicide attack team were renegade Muslim heretics who had cited the peaceful religion of Islam as part of their rationale for their heinous attack on mostly innocent civilians, which is prohibited by the religion of Islam. They were called terrorists because they attacked mostly innocent civilian targets, without regard to the skin color of their victims. Several brown skinned people, including hundreds of Indians, were killed. George knows little or nothing of what I have outlined above. The proof? In point 2 above he says that the commission should have referred to Israelis as terrorists. The only Israelis and Palestinians involved in 9/11 were innocent civilians, so how could the commission refer to Israelis terrorists, or Israeli settlers or even genocide on innocent Palestinians? Regarding point 5, Bush and Cheney testified with no pre-screened questions and no time limit. Commission members said that Bush answered 90% of the questions asked. George tries to insult President Bush by saying he was chaperoned by Cheney, which says more
Re: [Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
Rene, I receive endless material via Goanet which I read selectively. Consequently, a lot is unread and discarded at the touch of a button under MY control i.e. not under somebody else's control. Thus, I would never support the view, implicit in your post, that some material normally received on Goanet should face a form of censorship even if the discussion seems endless at times. Clearly, one person's meat is another person's poison, but such is life and the silence from 7000 odd Goanetters not responding to your specifiic view is surely an answer in itself! Therefore, please let us have inclusionary persuasion among Goanetters, and not exclusionary practice under any pretext even if this were possible. One fear I have, but whether warranted or not, I do not know, is that the 'confining agenda' for Goanet you seem to propose, could kill off Goanet's vibrancy. However, I entirely accept that your suggestions for more specifiic Goan newsworthy type of items are right, and hopefully, further suggestions will be added to your list. Cordially, Cornel
Re: [Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
I was surprised that NOT ONE of all the 7000 plus supported my call for the end of this on going unproductive discussions about a month ago. We have no one else but ourselves to be blamed , by participating in these discussions ..we have encouraged and prolonged of these discussions. Ignore them and these discussions will die a natural death. I believe that it is time for the 7000 plus Goans world wide have their say , that is if they feel that such irrelevant discussions should be stopped. Or may be that they would like to see these discussions to continue : - ) Its time that the Cyber Goans on Goa net agree to some sort of * aims and objectives * for this Cyber Goan Community. My suggestions. Use the Goan Forums to discuss matter relating Goan related issues , support GOOD Goan projects. Work on Goanlinks , encourage and support Goan Local Voluntary projects ie Primary Health Centers , encourage Schools in Goa TWINING with schools abroad. I am sure many of you will have your own thoughts , please do add them if your TIME permits. I am sure some one would be in a better position to put these thoughts in a more understandable format ! just my simple thoughts..for the coming 2005 ! rene --- George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Folks, You must be as tired as I am of having to educate Mario on this forum. He is now bombarding me with private emails even though I requested him to stop. It is unfortunate that besides his inaccurate knowledge of most matters and his mispresentation of some of my views, he continues to SPAM this list. The Delete button is getting tired. Please wish him a new hobby in the New Year. Regards, George --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is blatant reverse racism pure and simple. You do not understand reverse racism if you equate what I say with it. etc., etc. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
Folks, You must be as tired as I am of having to educate Mario on this forum. He is now bombarding me with private emails even though I requested him to stop. It is unfortunate that besides his inaccurate knowledge of most matters and his mispresentation of some of my views, he continues to SPAM this list. The Delete button is getting tired. Please wish him a new hobby in the New Year. Regards, George --- Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is blatant reverse racism pure and simple. You do not understand reverse racism if you equate what I say with it. etc., etc.
[Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
TO: George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] In response to Halur Rasho and Philip Thomas you have continued your reprehensible comments about the US Senate's 9/11 Commission not being credible simply because they were white, without any regard to their individual credentials and political philosophies. This is blatant reverse racism pure and simple. Your own posts on this subject are ample proof that brown people can be just as biased, irrational and delusional as any white person. You have obviously not even read the 9/11 report, available on www.senate.gov, so how do you come up with your paranoid generalizations? Have you been talking to Michael Moore? While 99.9% of Muslims are not suicidal terrorists, every one of the nineteen 9/11 jihadis were Muslims. In spite of this there are no anti-Muslim or anti-Arab views in the 9/11 report. Every assertion was thoroughly researched and documented and the sources of information are all part of the report. Any honest brown person would have come to the same conclusions they did. Regarding the poll you cited you need to know that the US constitution is not responsive to polls, which are a snapshot of the people polled. No more, no less. No country is more protective of the rights of minorities than the US, and brown skinned people dominate much of the US economy. For example, Indian Americans have been the top ethnic group by family income since 1980. Filipinos are No. 2. The list includes the whites you are so afraid of. The top two executives in US foreign policy are black skinned, and two cabinet ministers are black as well. The next Attorney General is brown skinned. The top US General in Iraq is an Arab-American. You need to check out how they are treating Muslims in Germany, France and the Netherlands, without the impetus of a 9/11 attack. I have Arab friends in the US who are concerned when Arab strangers show up in their midst. They know the difference between most Muslims and terrorists who happen to be Muslims. Why don't you?
Re: [Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
TO: halur rasho [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not only do I second your objection to the obvious and gratuitous reverse-racism you were responding to, but I wonder what understanding of the middle-east was being displayed by these dark-skinned males when Al Qaeda declared war on America at the height of Bill Clinton's appeasement-oriented foreign policy, declared America a weak horse and Al Qaeda the strong horse and, in an escalating series, attacked American civil and military interests in NY, Kenya, Tanzania, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and back to NY on 9/11, raising the ante each time? The 9/11 Commission had equal representation by people who had been for and against US policy, and their findings have been so thoroughly researched and documented as to be unshakeable by anyone but the most cynical propagandists. Honest critics should take the time to read the original report and its source information to avoid embarrassing themselves, at www.senate.gov --- George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Philip and all: The 9-11 commission report is best used as a paper-weight. It is written by mostly white males in the USA who understand little about the Middle East. It could have been about the most The white male comment is gratious left wing racism , very annoying and as contemptible as the right wing variety. Would the 9-11 commission report be bettter if it had been written by dark skinned people ? Why in the world is the skin colour of the document's authors relevant while discussing it's contents? This is as knee jerk, as another poster's reaction to educated , informative posts because the author was from a certain Indian state whose natives opinions on Goa were suspect, anyways.
[Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem* (IFFI related extracts - I)
This is an attempt to cull out some quotes from the Seminar Issue on Goa to see if we can get some useful background from it on the IFFI initiative of the government. FOUR decades after Liberation, Goa stands acclaimed as being among the best developed states in the country. It has been described as one of India's ten most global non-corporate brands, second only to the Indian film industry and Bangalore's Silicon Valley .. Yet public perception across the European world and in the imagination of many others has linked Goa in the last three decades with Kathmandu, Bali and Ibiza. Goans battle environmental pollution, drug traffic and paedophilia...The Goan experience of colonialism and decolonization sets it apart, making problematic its harmonious integration into national life .. In subsequent decades, tourism has also contributed to mobility in ways that have not been matched in other parts of the country. [The Problem, Maria Aurora Couto] Soscgado, blissful ease, as a popular description of Goan character, appears to contradict the competitive performance of the Goan economy. It does, however, indicate that Goa's economic strengths derive from sources outside narrow definitions. .. Credit, however, must be given to the professional analysts for relying on criteria that gave greater regard to education, health, governance and infrastructure. It is in this wider context that Goa with an area of 3702 sq kms, the smallest state after Delhi, has attained benchmarks of human development that have made its economy among the best performing in the country...Though Goa entered the Union framework only in the middle of the Third Five Year Plan (1962-1966), the situation was more than made up by liberal funding and decisiveness of the Planning Commission and the Central government...Another milestone was reached in 1983 when Prime Minister Indira Gandhi held the Retreat of the Commonwealth Heads of Government in Goa. Significant and productive investments were made for roads, telecommunications, water supply, electricity transmission and distribution, the international airport terminal, and by the private sector for hotels and tourist attractions of Goa's unrivalled beaches of sun, sand, fronting calm seas and fringed by sand dunes and coconut palms. It also served as a demonstration of the joy of the Goan way of life - its cuisine, song and music and social harmony - an object lesson to some of the Commonwealth Heads uneasy about the military action of 1961...The financial resources to meet the challenges of development need a fresh look. A provision of central assistance on a formula based only on an increase in population and poverty penalizes states for performance. For Goa the reduction in central assistance from an average of 80% of the state plan outlay during the union territory period to the current 15% has led to increased borrowings, raising the dangers of a debt trap...Goa has much to show in the management of its resources. Not only is the per capita income the highest in the country but so also is the per capita realization of state revenue mainly from sales tax, water and electricity charges. The state budget estimates for 2004-2005 and the revised estimates for 2003-2004 provide for substantial funding for further initiatives in employment, agriculture, infrastructure and social welfare. The revenue expenditure is estimated at Rs 1584 crore and capital expenditure at Rs 597 crore, with a plan outlay of Rs 915 crore. Both the revenue deficit of Rs 7.95 crore and the fiscal deficit of Rs 506 crore are manageable. Evidently there is a case for enlarged central assistance that rewards performance and efficient management of the economy...In Goa, the foreign exchange earned from the export of iron ore of 23.5 million tonnes, was Rs 1200 crore, an all time high for fiscal 2002-2003; the foreign exchange from tourism in Goa is estimated at Rs 1500 crore during an average year and is expected to go up to Rs 2000 crore in 2004-2005. Only two percent of the royalty charges for mining and nothing for the foreign exchange earned from exports of Goan ore and tourism is received from the central government...There is need to revise the interest rate on Central loans, especially since external assistance on very low interest and other concessional terms is given by international funding agencies and bilateral donor countries. Such assistance is usually given for social sector projects like water supply, sanitation and rural development. Even if the foreign exchange is not passed on to the state governments, the rupee loan for such projects should be on low interest and long repayment periods [The Goan Economy. Alban Couto] There is much talk about Goa being one of the preferred tourist destinations. I do not subscribe to this view for a very good reason. Infrastructure is lacking. This is because neither the central nor state governments have introduced a 'hands on' tourism policy in India, even
[Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
--- halur rasho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Philip and all: The 9-11 commission report is best used as a paper-weight. It is written by mostly white males in the USA who understand little about the Middle East. It could have been about the most The white male comment is gratious left wing racism , very annoying and as contemptible as the right wing variety. No it is not. It was a point I wanted to make in greater detail in my earlier post but did not. Thank you for allowing me to do so now. The Middle East situation today is yesterday's colonization which has become today's neocoloninzation. It is based on white superiority, among other issues. Race is not the only issue but a significant one. The other issues are economic (oil), religion, etc. ONE aspect of the 9-11 commission is to give legitimacy to the USA's neocolonization ambitions in the Middle East and indirectly bless its anti-Arab, anti-Muslim views. A recent poll in the USA suggested that American Muslim rights should be curtailed. It is race, religious bigotry, etc. all rolled into one big unjust mess. And yes, the 9-11 would have greater credibility if it had dark-skinned people on the panel - like a few people from the Middle East who are scholars there and can offer a better perspective and some former Governor or Senator from the USA. Regards, George
Re: [Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
--- George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Philip and all: The 9-11 commission report is best used as a paper-weight. It is written by mostly white males in the USA who understand little about the Middle East. It could have been about the most The white male comment is gratious left wing racism , very annoying and as contemptible as the right wing variety. Would the 9-11 commission report be bettter if it had been written by dark skinned people ? Why in the world is the skin colour of the document's authors relevant while discussing it's contents? This is as knee jerk, as another poster's reaction to educated , informative posts because the author was from a certain indian state whose natives opinions on Goa were suspect , anyways. __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
[Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
Philip and all: The 9-11 commission report is best used as a paper-weight. It is written by mostly white males in the USA who understand little about the Middle East. It could have been about the most significant problem confronting peace in the Middle East and reducing a significant source of terrorism (the Israel-Palestine problem). Instead, the more popular explanation - Islamic terrorism is used for a Christian audience. Islamic terrorism is code (or politically correct in certain circles) for being anti-Muslim. No mention of any Israeli terrorism is made: neither the terrorism that radical Israeli settlers practice or the state-sponsored Israeli genocide on innocent Palestinians. Imagine a report written by white European cardinals in the Vatican on Islam in the Middle East. What credibility would it have if there was no experience of the real truth? The report would serve as toilet paper - if it was soft enough. Regards, George --- Philip Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have recently obtained copies of the following books: 1. The 9/11 Commission Report : The Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks upon the United States. (567 pages) if any goanetters are interested pls post your msg and I will try to respond earliest. Looking forward to an exchange of stimulating ideas with goanetters -- on goanet.
[Goanet]Re: Seminar, Nov 2004 issue *Amchem Goem*
I have recently obtained copies of the following books: 1. The 9/11 Commission Report : The Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks upon the United States. (567 pages) 2. The Fortune at the Bottom of the Pyramid: Eradicating Poverty through Profits (by Prof. CK Prahalad) (400 pages + 35 min. CD) 3. Indian in the Global Software Industry: Innovation, Firm Strategies and Development by Anthony P. D'Costa and E. Sridharan (eds). (292 pages) There must be links to any or all these books on google, amazon.com etc. But if any goanetters are interested pls post your msg and I will try to respond earliest. Looking forward to an exchange of stimulating ideas with goanetters -- on goanet.
