[Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS

[Joao Barros-Pereira]

*CHRISTIANS WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.*
*Tue Sep 22 00:32:20 PDT 2009*

Those Christians in India who are operating with Hindu names are doing
thisto protect their skin from Hindu facist forces.
Joao observes: Rubbish! They have every right to change their names. Don't
forget we were all Hindus, Muslims, Buddhist or whatever before the
Portuguese arrived with their religion and 'converted' us. As Indians we
should be allowed to choose a Hindu, Muslim or any other non-Christian name.
Don't forget that in Goa the vast majority of Christians are Roman Catholic
who are carried to church to be baptized even before they can walk or talk,
never mind think for themselves regarding serious religious issues. This is
not religiousness but Churchiainty and Crossiainity. If people want to
escape from this living hell they should be allowed to do so. No need for
sanctimonious speeches as these people simply want to be re-born as human
beings. So, no more insults, please. Cheers!

May God give thesechristians the courage that they do not hide their
christian faith.

May God also give the Clergy the wisdom and vision that they guide
theirflocks in the right direction and utilize church resources and
propertiesfor the welfare and upliftment of the poor catholics of their
parish.

May God also give the Christian missionaries the courage to preach theGospel
of Christ where the upper caste hindus and brahmins live and not justwhere
the dalits, tribals and slumdwellers live.

A *Christian* Warrior is someone who is not afraid to pick up their crossand
follow Christ. They know that to live is Christ, and to die is gain, andthey
are willing to give what they cannot keep to gain what they cannotlose. They
live by The Vision. They wake up every morning prepared forbattle, waging
the war against sin and death so that all might come to lifein Christ. They
are fearless. Unafraid, they boldly face persecution,ridicule, and even
torture with unwavering faith and a steadfast heart.

Their battles are often silent.

Their victories go unnoticed by the world.

They fight not against people, but against sin.

They do not strive for earthly treasure, but for heavenly rewards.

They wield the weapons of truth, prayer, and love.

God Bless You.

Jorge Dias.

Bombay.

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANS WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS

[Domnic Fernandes]

Post liberation, many Goan parents named their children after Bollywood stars 
e.g. 
Amit/Amitabh, Rajesh, Shashi, Sharmila, Rekha, Madhuri, etc. Even Goan priests 
took 
up Hindu names. I had a friend of mine, Fr. Sawant, from Sant Estevam. He 
passed 
away about ten years ago. For the past three decades or so it has become a 
fashion 
for Goan Christians to use Hindu names, especially those of Bollywood stars.

In Pakistan, Christians are forced to take on Muslim names but it is not so in 
Goa. 
We choose our names and christen our children.

Off-subject:  What I am going to write here is not related to Christians with 
Hindu 
names but to Christianity: Post India's independence, when the Hindu-Muslim 
massacre 
took place, my father worked for the Green Hotel in Bombay - he played for a 
resident band there.  He told us how Hindus and Muslims killed each other 
mercilessly, especially at night when employees returned home from their work. 
The 
only way for them to escape death was to pretend that they were Christians.   
With 
this in mind, many Hindus and Muslims opted to wear a cross or a scapular in 
their 
necks. When attacked at night and about to be hacked or stabbed, the victim 
would 
display the cross or scapular in his neck and claim to be a Christian, and it 
worked; thus, many escaped the
clutches of death by displaying signs of Christianity.

My father would have turned 100 years old last April. I am sure there are 
people 
around who can vouch for what I have stated above.

Moi-mogan,

Domnic Fernandes
Mob: 9420979201

http://www.goanet.org/post.php?name=News&list=goanet&info=2009-September/thread&post_id=183512
 

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.

[J. Colaco < jc>]

While Jacinta is making a good point about "saving the planet", there
are people wondering How to survive. That, I believe was the posit
made in the "Jorge Dias' post.

Jacinta may wish to visit the NE of India or Gujarat or even a few
miles south of Goa to Chicamangaloor and understand that there are
more emergent problems that minorities face. And then there are the
constantly evolving Maoist and Naxalite situations which are affecting
a significant part of India.

I also wonder if jacinta is correct about the origin of the name Peter
from the 'Persian Pedrom'. (I am not sure that such a name exists in
Persian, but that is besides the point). It is my understanding - and
I stand corrected, if I am wrong that:

The Persian language is about 2500 years old
Greek and Latin are about 3500 years old
The name Peter (and its Hebrew/Aramaic version) signifies a 'rock'
originates from Petros in Greek and/or Petrus in Latin

I will not get into "what is Indian" ..it would be discussing
'What is Australian" without taking the Aboriginees into account.

jc


2009/9/23 jacinta/chander :

Traditional Catholic names are basically European names some are
corrupted names from the middle eastern region.  e.g George from
Jorge/ Peter from Pedrom (persian) and so it goes on.  The so called
Hindu names are Indian names and they are more in tune with the
language and the region.

Instead of getting hung up on issues of names there are more important
urgent matters at hand e.g green house emmison, land preservation for
posterity and preserving the planet for the future.  Move on Jorge.

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.

[jacinta/chander]

Traditional Catholic names are basically European names some are corrupted 
names from the middle eastern region.  e.g George from Jorge/ Peter from Pedrom 
(persian) and so it goes on.  The so called Hindu names are Indian names and 
they are more in tune with the language and the region. 

Instead of getting hung up on issues of names there are more important urgent 
matters at hand e.g green house emmison, land preservation for posterity and 
preserving the planet for the future.  Move on Jorge.

Jacinta

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.

[Mario Goveia]

Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:20:20 +0530
From: "Valmiki Faleiro" 

(Incidentally, "Valmiki" is not just Indian, no private property here, the 
Maharishi belongs not just to India but to the world.)

Mario responds:

Now, now, Maharishi Faleiro, let's not get carried away here - after you were 
doing so well in defending your auspicious name:-))

Don't we all belong to the world?

I always told my parents growing up that the saint's names were getting stale 
and boring and we needed more saints with names like Valmiki and Vinita 
and Vijay and Priya and Sapna and Santosh and Rajan and Samir and Sandeep, all 
legitimate candidates after Vatican II.  I did my part by using three of these 
myself.

We have a TRULY Catholic church where I live that has life sized tapestries of 
Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. hung inside the church alongside 
several saints whose names we would all recognize.

Jorge needs to wise up.

[Goanet] CHRISTIANS WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS

[ignatius fernandes]

Drear Sir/madam

I for one would never hide my 
Christian names.
But would dearly love to know 
my Hindu surname before my 
ancestors were converted to 
Christianity.
Ignatius Fernandes.

  
_
With Windows Live, you can organise, edit, and share your photos.
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.

[J. Colaco < jc>]

2009/9/22 Jorge Dias jorges...@gmail.com

 Those Christians in India who are operating with Hindu names are
doing this to protect their skin from Hindu facist forces. May God
give these christians the courage that they do not hide their
christian faith. et etc

A *Christian* Warrior is someone who is not afraid to pick up their
cross and follow Christ. They know that to live is Christ, and to die
is gain, and they are willing to give what they cannot keep to gain
what they cannot lose. They

They are fearless. Unafraid, they boldly face persecution, ridicule,
and even torture with unwavering faith and a steadfast heart.

-- response --

Dear Jorge,

I intentionally held my breath - to read what others had to write in
response to you - before I approached my keyboard.

Forgive me for saying this - but in these days of pseudonyms - I did
really wonder who Jorge Dias was. So, when you go get an opportunity,
do let us know a bit more about yourself - if at all, it is possible.

Allow me then to state the following: There some merit and some
demerit in what you have written.

[1] names of convenience: I personally know of

a:  a number of Hindus (living near Carambolim) who had
Christian-sounding names and surnames who were actually practising
Hindus. They reverted to their hindu-sounding names after 1961.

b: some Goan Catholics in Poona - who changed their surnames from the
Portuguese to the Anglicised variant - Soares  became Sawyer,
Fernandes became Ferns etc

c: Mangalorean Catholics who changed their names - before entering
University in Karnataka - Fernandes became Prabhu. Pinto became Rao,
and de Souza became Kamath.

d: Goan Hindus Lusitanised their names, spoke Portuguese better than
the Portuguese - Chowgule became Chougulo, Shenvi became Xinai, Kamat
became Camotim.

e: A well known Pakistani (formerly) Christian cricket player had an
Islamic sounding first name ...Yousuf (he has changed his name after
converting to Islam).


[2] Except for Mohammed Yousuf, None of the above changed their
religious practices even though they modified their names.

It might interest you that in the Caribbean, you will find (East
Indian) Hindus and Christians having the same names and
surnamesand along with the Muslims, they take part in Id,  Bajaan
(Bhajan) and Christmas together with one relative who might be Hindu,
another Muslim and the third a Christian. ..All sharing Roti,
Curry Goat, Daal and White rum.

** Please note that the term 'East Indians' refers to descendants of
the Indian indentured labourers. It is my personal observation that
NEW Indian immigrants (especially the 'hupper class' Hindus) to the
Caribbean look down upon these original "East Indians" 

Anyway ... I digressed.

[3] I accept that there is some religion-based (and caste-based)
descrimination in India.

Now, IF you had a family to feed - which choice would you make (as
long as you privately practised your faith)

a: The "safe" choice (of least resistance) - modify your name/surname
to make yourself less conspicuous?

or

b: The fool-hardy choice - of "In your face" and risk your family?


FINALLY:

[4] Is it more important to be a 'demonstrative' Christian or a
'practising' one?

good wishes

jc

One who believes that BUT FOR the Portuguese conquest of Goa, my real
name (and that of many others) would have been Yousuf; and one who
prefers a Good Hindu, Catholic, Muslim and Non-believer anyday to a
violent, lying, thiefing, and discriminatory Hindu, Catholic, Muslim
and Non-believer. .anyday

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.

[Valmiki Faleiro]

What's this rubbish going round? Christians with Hindu names?

Looks as though the poster forgot to underscore his unstated thesis
that Christians and Hindus (and Muslims, Sikhs, and all the dozens
of denominations in India where we usually celebrate diversity) are
sworn enemies of one another in Goa and the rest of India.
Plain ignorance of reality.

I proudly carry my first name. I was baptised with it at the church font
even before I realised it (according to my baptismal certificate, I was
seven days old when this happened.) Yet I'm proud, though certainly
not with any justification that I've even remotely lived up to the name
my parents decided to name me after one of India's greatest Rishis
(a Maharishi indeed), "Valmiki."

Can't figure out how that could tickle Jorge!

I tend to agree with Mario (his post copied below.) Names like mine
are more Indian than "Hindu" -- and wish more such Christians knew
a bit more what about Hinduism is all about (they would then be better
armed to meet Hindutva theorists!)

(Incidentally, "Valmiki" is not just Indian, no private property here, the
Maharishi belongs not just to India but to the world.)

Can only hope some better sense will prevail in the minds of so-called
"Christians."  -v


- Original Message - 
From: "Santosh Helekar" 

To: " estb. 1994!Goa's premiere mailing list" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.


Pandurang Fernandes is no coward. He has fought against all forces of nature - Hindu, Christian and Muslim. He is not afraid to 
show his face to the facist, and use the full force of an armed Forsu, with the other arm tied behind his back, against a thousand 
faceless Forsus who hide behind their faiths and their fake IDs.


Cheers,

Santosh

--- On Tue, 9/22/09, Jorge Dias  wrote:


 Those Christians in India who are
operating with Hindu names are doing this
to protect their skin from Hindu facist forces. May God
give these
christians the courage that they do not hide their
christian faith.

God Bless You.
Jorge Dias.
Bombay.

=

- Original Message - 
From: "Mario Goveia" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:48 PM
Subject: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS


Mario observes:

In my never-humble opinion, there is nothing inherently "Christian" or "Non-Christian" in a name. I know many Christians with 
so-called Hindu names who do not hide their religion, but have assumed "Hindu" names for other cultural reasons.

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS

[Oscar Lobo]

 CHRISTIANS WITH HINDU NAMES

I have read the exchange of views on Goanet Digest and I cannot understand what 
the 
fuss is all about!  Many Goans who live in Goa believe that Goa was LIBERATED. 
So, 
if Goa was "Liberated" should not the names be liberated also if you are in Goa 
and 
celebrating 19 December 2009 as "Liberation Day"?

If not for the influence of Portuguese, wouldn't we all be called either 
Mohammed, 
Abdullah, Raghuram, Vishnu, Saraswati, Ram, Sita etc?

Please cherish the Hindu names in the name of Liberation! It is good to erase 
Portuguese influence and perhaps people can change their surnames as well.

That way our people can become Chief Ministers or Prime Minister of India.

Jai Hind - long live Goa - Amchem Goem amcam Zavem!


Oscar Lobo

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS

[bernard dcosta]

I don't think thatb the Christians in India with Hindu names our
cowards.They are just trying to get the best of two cultures.With Christian
names admission to premier Christian institutes and with Hindu names better
job opportunities,Nothing wrong as long as they remain faithful to their
premier beliefs.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:21 AM, Cajetan Alvares wrote:

>  On Tue, 9/22/09, Jorge Dias < jorgesr91 at
> gmail.com>
> wrote:>
> * Those Christians in India who are operating with Hindu names are doing *
> >
> * this to protect their skin from Hindu facist forces. May God give these*
> >
> * christians the courage that they do not hide their christian faith.* My
> friends Anil Pinto, Reena D'Souza, Sam Naik, Sheila Desai think Jorge is
> confused and is being discriminatory. George
> ---
> Has any one heard of St Jorge, and what day of the month is his or her
> feast
> day please let me know. Is Jorge a Bosnian/Kosovan/croatian or Polish
> saint?
> Caj.
>

[Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS

[Cajetan Alvares]

 On Tue, 9/22/09, Jorge Dias < jorgesr91 at
gmail.com>
wrote:>
* Those Christians in India who are operating with Hindu names are doing * >
* this to protect their skin from Hindu facist forces. May God give these* >
* christians the courage that they do not hide their christian faith.* My
friends Anil Pinto, Reena D'Souza, Sam Naik, Sheila Desai think Jorge is
confused and is being discriminatory. George
---
Has any one heard of St Jorge, and what day of the month is his or her feast
day please let me know. Is Jorge a Bosnian/Kosovan/croatian or Polish saint?
Caj.

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.

[Naguesh Bhatcar]

This is quite hilarious!

My sisters have Christian names or were mostly names used by Catholics of
Goa - Rita, Nita, Lynda! Are they any less Hindu because of that?
My parents named them such because they liked the names!! 

Why bring religious connotation into a name? 
Aren't we living in a world that is complex enough?
I think that if you take the pains to investigate, the family trees of
Goan Hindus and Catholics will meet around the time of the Portuguese
occupation, in the the 15th century.

Wake up Jorge, we are in the 21st century!

Naguesh Bhatcar
sgbhat...@hotmail.com


> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:02:20 +0530
> From: jorges...@gmail.com
> To: 
> Subject: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.
> 
>  Those Christians in India who are operating with Hindu names are doing this
> to protect their skin from Hindu facist forces. May God give these
> christians the courage that they do not hide their christian faith.
> 
><><>>>><><><><<><><><><><<><><><><><><>
> 
> God Bless You.
> Jorge Dias.
> Bombay.
  

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS

[Frederick [FN] Noronha * फ्रेडरिक न ोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا]

Strange! This echoes the Hindutva argument that crypto-Christians
attempt to hide their identity by adopting "Hindu" names!

I wonder what conspiracy theory could be built about Christians in
India with Portuguese (or British) names!

Incidentally, my kids have Arabic and Nigerian first-names (and
double-barrel, Portuguese-influenced surnames). Could someone build an
urban legend on the motives behind this please? FN

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:02:20 +0530
> From: Jorge Dias 
> Those Christians in India who are operating
> with Hindu names are doing this to protect
> their skin from Hindu facist forces. May God
> give these christians the courage that they
> do not hide their christian faith.

-- 
FN +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490
Updated: http://goabooks.wordpress.com

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.

[marlon menezes]

Jorge,
What about those of us who have both cristian and hindu names? If read in an 
alternate direction, my name is Nolram. Unlike all those cowardly cristian 
infant fluent speaking newborns who willfully chose hindu names, I was born 
mute.  Thankfully  a diet rich in the holy Goan trinity (feni, sausages, cashew 
nuts), inspired my parents to choose a name that paid homage to all the gods. 
Like you I  wish and bray that the Lard will inspire more parents to be more 
daring in their choice of names for their children who are unable to speak 7 
languages at birth. My favorite Goan Christian name is Leitao, as it is one of 
the key ingredients of the holy Goan trinity. May people with such names be 
unfraid, such they they boldly face persecution, ridicule and even emotional 
torture. May the Lard give these believers in the Goan trinity the courage that 
they do not hide their faith in the power of the sausage.
Praise the Lard,
Marlon



- Original Message 
From: Jorge Dias 
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:32:20 AM
Subject: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.

Those Christians in India who are operating with Hindu names are doing this
to protect their skin from Hindu facist forces. May God give these
christians the courage that they do not hide their christian faith.

May God also give the Clergy the wisdom and vision that they guide their
flocks in the right direction and utilize church resources and properties
for the welfare and upliftment of the poor catholics of their parish.

May God also give the Christian missionaries the courage to preach the
Gospel of Christ where the upper caste hindus and brahmins live and not just
where the dalits, tribals and slumdwellers live.

A *Christian* Warrior is someone who is not afraid to pick up their cross
and follow Christ. They know that to live is Christ, and to die is gain, and
they are willing to give what they cannot keep to gain what they cannot
lose. They live by The Vision. They wake up every morning prepared for
battle, waging the war against sin and death so that all might come to life
in Christ. They are fearless. Unafraid, they boldly face persecution,
ridicule, and even torture with unwavering faith and a steadfast heart.

Their battles are often silent.
Their victories go unnoticed by the world.
They fight not against people, but against sin.
They do not strive for earthly treasure, but for heavenly rewards.
They wield the weapons of truth, prayer, and love.

God Bless You.
Jorge Dias.
Bombay.

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS

[George Pinto]

--- On Tue, 9/22/09, Jorge Dias  wrote:

>  Those Christians in India who are operating with Hindu names are doing 
> this to protect their skin from Hindu facist forces. May God give these
> christians the courage that they do not hide their christian faith.


My friends Anil Pinto, Reena D'Souza, Sam Naik, Sheila Desai think Jorge is 
confused and is being discriminatory.  

George

[Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS

[Mario Goveia]

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:02:20 +0530
From: Jorge Dias 

Those Christians in India who are operating with Hindu names are doing this to 
protect their skin from Hindu facist forces. May God give these christians the 
courage that they do not hide their christian faith.

Mario observes:

In my never-humble opinion, there is nothing inherently "Christian" or 
"Non-Christian" in a name.  I know many Christians with so-called Hindu names 
who do not hide their religion, but have assumed "Hindu" names for other 
cultural reasons.

I also know many with "Christian" names who are about as un-Christ-like as one 
can get.

As a Bhayya-Goan I grew up with Hindu supremacists as friends and classmates 
and sports team-mates in Madhya Pradesh and they are not so easily fooled 
simply by a person's name.

This peculiar concept of "Christian" names in Goa seems to come from Portuguese 
culture, which is why those who were either voluntarily or involuntarily 
converted hundreds of years ago from Hindus or Muslims to Christians in Goa, 
were forced to take names the Portuguese considered "Christian".

This was not the practice in Kerala for example, where the Christians were 
converted by one of Christ's original twelve Apostles, and kept their ancestral 
family names and chose Christian first names if they wanted to.

Unless I'm missing something in Christian teachings, I don't think God cares 
much what one's name happens to be.

Much more important is how you live your life and how you treat your fellow 
man, and I don't think demeaning their names is a good place to start.

Re: [Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.

[Santosh Helekar]

Pandurang Fernandes is no coward. He has fought against all forces of nature - 
Hindu, Christian and Muslim. He is not afraid to show his face to the facist, 
and use the full force of an armed Forsu, with the other arm tied behind his 
back, against a thousand faceless Forsus who hide behind their faiths and their 
fake IDs.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- On Tue, 9/22/09, Jorge Dias  wrote:
>
>  Those Christians in India who are
> operating with Hindu names are doing this
> to protect their skin from Hindu facist forces. May God
> give these
> christians the courage that they do not hide their
> christian faith.
> 
> May God also give the Clergy the wisdom and vision that
> they guide their
> flocks in the right direction and utilize church resources
> and properties
> for the welfare and upliftment of the poor catholics of
> their parish.
> 
> May God also give the Christian missionaries the courage to
> preach the
> Gospel of Christ where the upper caste hindus and brahmins
> live and not just
> where the dalits, tribals and slumdwellers live.
> 
> A *Christian* Warrior is someone who is not afraid to pick
> up their cross
> and follow Christ. They know that to live is Christ, and to
> die is gain, and
> they are willing to give what they cannot keep to gain what
> they cannot
> lose. They live by The Vision. They wake up every morning
> prepared for
> battle, waging the war against sin and death so that all
> might come to life
> in Christ. They are fearless. Unafraid, they boldly face
> persecution,
> ridicule, and even torture with unwavering faith and a
> steadfast heart.
> 
> Their battles are often silent.
> Their victories go unnoticed by the world.
> They fight not against people, but against sin.
> They do not strive for earthly treasure, but for heavenly
> rewards.
> They wield the weapons of truth, prayer, and love.
> 
> God Bless You.
> Jorge Dias.
> Bombay.
> 


  

[Goanet] CHRISTIANs WITH HINDU NAMES ARE COWARDS.

[Jorge Dias]

 Those Christians in India who are operating with Hindu names are doing this
to protect their skin from Hindu facist forces. May God give these
christians the courage that they do not hide their christian faith.

May God also give the Clergy the wisdom and vision that they guide their
flocks in the right direction and utilize church resources and properties
for the welfare and upliftment of the poor catholics of their parish.

May God also give the Christian missionaries the courage to preach the
Gospel of Christ where the upper caste hindus and brahmins live and not just
where the dalits, tribals and slumdwellers live.

A *Christian* Warrior is someone who is not afraid to pick up their cross
and follow Christ. They know that to live is Christ, and to die is gain, and
they are willing to give what they cannot keep to gain what they cannot
lose. They live by The Vision. They wake up every morning prepared for
battle, waging the war against sin and death so that all might come to life
in Christ. They are fearless. Unafraid, they boldly face persecution,
ridicule, and even torture with unwavering faith and a steadfast heart.

Their battles are often silent.
Their victories go unnoticed by the world.
They fight not against people, but against sin.
They do not strive for earthly treasure, but for heavenly rewards.
They wield the weapons of truth, prayer, and love.

God Bless You.
Jorge Dias.
Bombay.