Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
It appears that Boeing, Airbus Industrie and other aircraft manufacturers are installing a secret gadget with a very powerful influence. It brainwashes deshis who cross the oceans and empowers them with superior knowledge and wisdom when they migrate. (The Brahmins of old feared crossing the ocean because of the corrupting influence. Must be some truth in the belief.) They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how? Come and show us or forever hold your peace. If Mario or Gabriel or Bernardo can do it they can be the next political leaders. Else they can forever be videshi boot lickers. Jai Goa, Jai Hind. -- \\\ = \\-00 Tony de Sa C u tonyd...@gmail.com \ ~/ M : +91 9975 162 897 --|| Ph. : +91 832 2470 148 = / | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:51:54 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah Mario asks: NRGs have to tell you this? Don't you live in Goa? Can't you see for yourself? Don't you hear the barking? No wonder Goa is going to the canines. Tony writes: Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how? Mario responds: Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, Anil are all trying to show you, but you need to put down that bottomless glass of feni first, and realize that Goa is now under the control of the canines. Get rid of at least a few rotters the same way you stopped the worst of the CRZ's - by getting up from your siesta, organizing the people, and electing honest politicians. Nothing much is going to happen unless you can rock the boat.
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter.
Exmo Sr. (Exma Sra?) I Nunes, I am not sure whether I am adressing a gent or a lady as neither the name I Nunes nor the email id reveal your sex, Not that I am sexist, but it would be polite to address you with the appropriate salutation and your name with the informality of email. But I digress. With reference to the point raised by you: I. Nunes questions: ? After having in effect ceded control of North Goa to white foreigners who actively and overtly discriminate against native Goans and Indians as publicized, what does that say of the status quo in Goa,? Mr. D'Sa? Do you still maintain?First Class status, albeit a subjugated status?in your own land? ? Further, and importantly, how do you reconcile the pervasive and corrosive caste system with your ideals of equality and opportunity for all Goans?? What is under discussion in my post to which you have given this reply is whether western countries as we call them are biased against Indians and thereby goans and whether Indians/ Goans are second class citizens or not. Please answer to the point and don't draw red herrings. The prevailing status in Goa is not under question but you may start a separate thread and I will answer your arguement appropriately. Regards, Tony -- \\\ Tony de Sa tonyd...@gmail.com M : +91 9975 162 897 Ph. : +91 832 2470 148 ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Gabriel wrote: I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no WASP-only localities -the first time I have heard it mentioned, was by you. Blah blah. Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:02:31 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have finally made me see the light of the day. *There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia* Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein. Mario observes: Tony, Your halleluja may be premature. You haven't been saved from anything yet as we continue to inform you about things you see mis-informed about. For example, your latest poppycock is a gross misrepresentation of what Gabriel and I have written and taken totally out of context. Gabriel and I were responding to your previous poppycock about foreign immigrants being unable to live and buy property anywhere in Australia or the US. Both Gabriel and I explained that we could buy properties wherever we could afford them without having to worry about being foreign immigrants. I don't recall anyone talking about no racial prejudice in the West and Australia. There are stupid and prejudiced people in all countries, including Goa. Tony wrote: But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A lot of Goans could be classified as spics. Mario observes: People are being killed by common criminals everywhere. No one is focusing on Indians who may be victims from time to time. Paki is a short form for Pakistani. The kids of your Canadian friends are simply disrespectful spoiled brats. Blacks were called niggers and whites are called honkies. Calling someone of a different background or race names is no different than Goans calling non-Goans bhaile and ghantis, etc. Like I said above there are a few stupid and prejudiced people everywhere, including Goa. You and Samir are obviously prejudiced against NRGs. This has nothing to do with were we can live or buy property, which was your original false charge. I wonder what you will try to use next. In the meantime, unlike the developed countries that Tony is obsessed about, Goa is going to the proverbial dogs, while a couple of RGs are busy attacking NRGs.
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter.
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:24:28 -0800 (PST) From: lyrawmn lyra...@yahoo.com After having in effect ceded control of North Goa to white foreigners who actively and overtly discriminate against native Goans and Indians as publicized, what does that say of the status quo in Goa, Mr. D'Sa? Mario observes: Oh, I get it. Those WASP-only areas where Indians are not allowed to buy homes are actually in Goa!
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:16:03 -0800 (PST) From: lyrawmn lyra...@yahoo.com Some well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. RE: What are we waiting for posts? Mario responds: You are correct. Because I believe their heart is in the right place, I have tried to gently re-orient such efforts towards the primary problem in Goa, the unholy alliance of corrupt politicians and corrupt business interests. If that unholy alliance cannot be disrupted, then little else will be achieved. lyrawmn wrote: At present the many RG activists have been the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans villagers battling special interests in face of threats, intimidation, litigation costs, time, etc. Nandkumar Kamat has been at his quest for over 20 years. Mario responds: Kudos to all RGs who are involved in such attempts. Those RGs who are truly interested in turning things around in Goa welcome the NRGs who are interested in the same thing, rather that the couple who were seen throwing stones from their glass houses.
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have finally made me see the light of the day. *There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia* I am convinced.. I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no WASP-only localities -?the first time I have heard it?mentioned, was by you. Blah blah. [GABRIEL De F] Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein. But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A lot of Goans could be classified as spics. I could go on and on. But then there is no, repeat, there is no racial discrimination in the west, is there (according to the chest thumpers)? Only aberrations. Have a nice day bashing the next coolie. Regards, Tony -- \\\ Tony de Sa tonyd...@gmail.com M : +91 9975 162 897 Ph. : +91 832 2470 148 ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Dear Samir, Perhaps if you'd read that article properly, you would have noticed it said: The hype in the Indian media over racial attacks on Indian students in Australia would suggest that thousands of Indian students have been victims of such attacks over the past two years. This is not true.. The hype in the Indian media says it all. No boot-licking here - perhaps it is yourself who is doing licking vigorously somewhere and having a very sore tongue by now, perhaps why you think all of us rest are boot-lickers as well. A dispassionate look at the recent attacks on Indian students reveals some distinct patterns that are not exactly racist. First, the attacks have been on students and not on long-term residents working as skilled professionals. ... In addition, there are a sizeable number of people of Indian origin from countries such as Fiji, Malaysia, Kenya and South Africa. ... the attackers were a polyglot mix, reflecting the streets – whites, Asian, Middle Eastern, Aboriginal and Pacific Islander. In one case, the alleged assailant was of Middle Eastern appearance. In another incident, a young offender described as “Aboriginal” committed the attack. ... The Australian police are not far from truth when they describe the attacks as largely motivated by opportunity because Indian students work late at night, live in low-cost and usually crime-prone neighborhoods, and are regarded as soft targets. ... The latter categories of students are actually migrants desirous of working as taxi drivers, carpenters and attendants in shops and hotels. Most do not mix with locals and live in virtual ghettoes, something that does not go well with the local population. ... Why is it that one does not hear of similar incidents involving Chinese students, who number more than 120,000 in the country? I hope the rest of the readers make up their own minds from the above excerpts of the article that Samir pointed out, pointers Salus I had mentioned in past emails. Gabriel. PS No more from me on this topic. - Original Message From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com To: Goanet goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 4:02:53 PM Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter Gabriel writes: So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind. Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties. http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/ I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram Naik --- blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed that boot-licking mentality here in another post. regards, Samir __ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter.
--- On Wed, 1/13/10, Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com wrote: But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/ Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself. I. Nunes questions: After having in effect ceded control of North Goa to white foreigners who actively and overtly discriminate against native Goans and Indians as publicized, what does that say of the status quo in Goa, Mr. D'Sa? Do you still maintain First Class status, albeit a subjugated status in your own land? Further, and importantly, how do you reconcile the pervasive and corrosive caste system with your ideals of equality and opportunity for all Goans?
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Mr. Goveia, You have articulated concisely and well the rebuttal to some RGs claims of unwarranted meddling by concerned NRGs in matters Goa. I suspect theirs is a minority view culled in literary salons of the cognoscenti. In fairness, the RGs have a point in one area. Some well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. RE: What are we waiting for posts? This appears a heavy handed approach and ignores and discounts the long struggle by the loyal concerned citizens and environmentalists resident in Goa for over the past 2 decades. You do recall Agonda circa 1980es where hardy villagers, lawyers and environmentalists successfully halted the resort development in its track, yes? Golf courses in a CRZ, you ask? Yes! At present the many RG activists have been the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans villagers battling special interests in face of threats, intimidation, litigation costs, time, etc Nandkumar Kamat has been at his quest for over 20 years. No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India. You are right. It is pointless to debate the merits of transparency of governance and the media in the west versus India. You are not going to change entrenched minds. The 2009 Survey done by International Transparency Org assigns India a CPI [Corruption Perception Index] rank of 84 in the 180 countries surveyed. [N. Zealand ranks 1 and Somalia 180, with China 79 and US 19]. As a survey it is an underestimates the pervasiveness of corruption. http:/n /www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table other links: http://mahendra-agarwalonline.20m.com/PR_IndiaSleazeCorruption.htm http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorialid=479catID=1 http://fightcorruption.wikidot.com/other I. Nunes
[Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Tony D'Sa wrote: That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/ Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself. Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:55:58 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen? Mario responds: A lot. Yes. No. Besides, Tony's statement above is provably false when applied to America. Residents of the other countries can speak for themselves. Samir wrote: I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it takes. Mario observes: I disagree. To not disparage corruption is to accept it. To not criticize the vast improvements that need to be made in India and Goa MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT EVEN BEING ADDRESSED BY THE LOCAL RESIDENTS would be doing a great dis-service to India and Goa. Do you think the pictures by Rajan and Joe were shot in a film studio? Being IT specialists and suppliers of low cost goods and services contracted by and designed in the developed countries is hardly enough, though it's a good first step. Harming India and Goa is the bribery and corruption and even goonda-giri at all levels, rampant tax cheating, civic carelessness and public behavior that is rarely seen in any developed country, and if seen is roundly condemned if not prosecuted and the culprits brought to justice. No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India. In Goa, everyone is scared of the goonda-politicians. I have personal knowledge of at least one of them brazenly helping a crony steal ancestral property in my own village in Goa by using forged documents to transfer interest in the title to the property and then threatening the relatives to keep quiet or risk physical harm. How else do you think Goa has become such a mess? What good is a legal system when they can intimidate people to be quiet? Pointing fingers outward and trying to disparage those NRGs who are trying to help, VOLUNTARILY, AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE IN TIME AND MONEY, does NOTHING to help either India or Goa. All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. - attributed to Edmund Burke but never found in his writings.
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
- Original Message From: Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 2:55:27 AM Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter Tony D'Sa wrote: That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/ Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself. I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no WASP-only localities - the first time I have heard it mentioned, was by you. Please note a) the colour of my skin made no difference b) my nationality made no difference c) my surname made no difference to the outcome. I was asked neither for my nationality papers nor about my origins when I bought properties. I met with the conveyancing lawyers only for signing the documents, otherwise everything else was done over the 'phone, no running around in circles chasing people. If you have the means to pay for your purchase, via a bank-loan or otherwise, no-one stops you, be it in London, be it in Melbourne. I am intrigued as to how you came about this conclusion of exclusivity. Only India (in my experience) seems to have this phobia about non-nationals buying up properties in India. We are in no way second-class citizens. Avenues are open in all places, including the chance to be the Prime Minister or even the Governor-General. The current Governor for Victoria is Sri-Lankan born - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_de_Kretser . The previous Mayor for the City of Melbourne (twice -running) was Chinese-born John So - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_So - you may have heard the loud cheering for the man at the 2006 Commonwealth Games everytime John So's name was mentioned. So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind. Samir Kelekar For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen? Fight what injustice? There are services one does for free, as volunteers - St Vincent de Paul Society is one in which a lot of people (Goans included) put in their time. In addition, donations to charities, time with the community, visiting the elderly etc. are some of the activities we perform in our society, as our parents did in Goa. I hope this satisfies the criteria what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country. PS In relation to justice, please see http://www.theage.com.au/national/ken-lay-top-traffic-cop-caught-speeding-20100114-maan.html?autostart=1 and http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/deputy-commissioner-ken-lay-caught-speeding-through-country-town/story-e6frf7jo-1225819442669 __ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/
[Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Gabriel writes: So the prejudice, dear Tony, is in your mind. Racist attacks endanger Indo-Australian ties. http://www.upiasia.com/Society_Culture/2010/01/15/racist_attacks_endanger_indo-australian_ties/1520/ I guess your response to this would be like that of Shantaram Naik --- blame the victim. Your buddy Salus has already echoed that boot-licking mentality here in another post. regards, Samir
[Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter.
@Mario Quote: Unfortunately, there are also some RG and deshi NRG chest-thumpers who have decided that foren NRGs are a bigger problem than the corruption and mess in Goa, who are completely wasting their time and energy and deflecting attention from what needs to be done.Unquote Response: No all NRGs are not a problem - only those who think most self-conceitedly that they are the repositories of sanity and wisdom, blah, blah, blah on Goanet and strew their free advice freely. If we RGs are wasting our energy and time, isn't that our business and prerogative? What is the NRGs perception of what needs to be done is not necessarily our perception. And don't the NRGs contribute to a fair share of the corruption? Take the guy from his overseas home who comes on a two week holiday to Goa. He suddenly discovers that the old homestead is now worth a bundle and he needs to dispose of it! He is in a rush - so much to do, so little time. So he toodles off to his friendly Talathi/ Panchayat Secretary/ Mamlatdar and quietly slips him Rs. 10, 000/- After all what is 200 odd Amriki dollars? Now who is promoting corruption. Quote: No, it is not true that only RGs can do something about it as George Pinto and Rajan Parrikar and Anil Desai, three foren NRGs, have already demonstrated by their stellar work in Goa. Other foren NRG's like Arwin Mesquita are confronting Goan legislators and Carmen Miranda is trying to light a fire under local RGs. All this at remarkable personal cost in terms of time and money. Unquote Do you selectively read posts? Haven't I commended doers like George Pinto in my previous post when I mentioned adnauseam that if you love Goa, translate your words into action and don't mealy mouth unwanted, condescending advice to the RGs. Unless NRGs have the power of the vote and in substantial quantity, voting patterns will follow traditional lines. We are the voters. Non-national NRGs cannot change this. Quote: I'll give you an example based on the reality of India. India was going nowhere during its first 50 years since Independence. Corruption and waste at all levels was rampant and Indians were draining at an alarming rate to the benefit of other countries. Then suddenly the founding families were gone and common sense began to assert itself in the form of new leadership like Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi, who doesn't get enough credit in my opinion for exerting tremendous positive leadership while knowing when to grab the limelight and when to step back and let others get the limelight. Look at the difference this has made to India's economy in just a few years even with the old line communists in their coalition trying desperately to drag them back Unquote Manmohan and Sonia are hardly NRIs in the context of this discussion? Pretty dumb if you think so. So also you prove my point that only RIs and RGs can make an effective change. Quote: There is corruption from time to time in the countries you have listed. The difference you seem to be missing is that, in the west, when corruption is found the perpetrators are prosecuted and brought to justice. Taking millions just to liquidate a company may look corrupt to you, but if it was done legally, it could not correctly be described as corrupt in proper context.Unquote You miss the point that India, and by implication Goa has a rule of law. In India if you are caught, you are penalized after due processes of law. Even Kasab accused of heinous crimes against the nation has a trial. How many of the KKKlaners gave poor Negros the benefit of a fair trial? Or the Injuns? Remember, the only good Injun is a dead Injun. Quote: This is a false description of what happened. It was Emperor Hirohito and the Japanese leadership who were responsible for the casualties at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japanese, who started the war for the US by bombing Pearl Harbor without warning, refused to surrender before and after the bombing of Hiroshima, and only surrendered after the second bombing of Nagasaki. Because of how the Japanese had fought before that, the estimates of the casualties on the Allied side to finish the war by physically attacking Japan was considered too high. In a war the objective is to kill the enemy while minimizing casualties among your own people. The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki brought a brutal four year war to a screeching halt in just four days, unfortunately at an estimated cost of some 200,000 enemy casualties, all of which could have been avoided if the Japanese had surrendered before then unquote Utter kibosh. This is all American propaganda. History is written by the victors. The Americans just wanted to evaluate the atomic bomb in a field trial. Quote: If the RG's wake up and start doing something tangible, all the NRGs can can happily go back to their comfort zones. I'm sure Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, et. al. have other good uses for their time. Unquote Have we RGs prevented you from going back to your comfort
[Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter.
Mario Goveia wrote: Unfortunately, there are also some RG and deshi NRG chest-thumpers who have decided that foren NRGs are a bigger problem than the corruption and mess in Goa, who are completely wasting their time and energy and deflecting attention from what needs to be done. Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:42:45 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com No all NRGs are not a problem - only those who think most self-conceitedly that they are the repositories of sanity and wisdom, blah, blah, blah on Goanet and strew their free advice freely. Mario responds: Tony, you are not getting it. To begin with, I did not say you said that all NRGs are a problem. You and Samir apparently think the NRGs who are trying to help Goa are a bigger problem than the corruption and mess in Goa. If you RGs knew what the heck you were doing, we would not even be having this discussion. All NRGs could have come to Goa and had a good time, which I still do, instead of wasting their time and energy and money like Rajan, Carmen, George, Arwin, etc. Tony wrote: If we RGs are wasting our energy and time, isn't that our business and prerogative? What is the NRGs perception of what needs to be done is not necessarily our perception. Mario responds: Yes, it is your prerogative to go back to sleep and allow the mess to grow. On the other hand, it is the prerogative of the NRGs who are motivated to try and help change things for the better, sometimes based on their experiences in countries that are much better managed, sometimes by simply using common sense that seems to have eluded so many RGs. Tony wrote: And don't the NRGs contribute to a fair share of the corruption? Take the guy from his overseas home who comes on a two week holiday to Goa. He suddenly discovers that the old homestead is now worth a bundle and he needs to dispose of it! He is in a rush - so much to do, so little time. So he toodles off to his friendly Talathi/Panchayat Secretary/Mamlatdar and quietly slips him Rs. 10,000/- After all what is 200 odd Amriki dollars? Now who is promoting corruption. Mario responds: Are individuals selling their property the corruption that is making a mess in Goa, or what the buyers are then doing with the property, which is where you RGs have been asleep at the switch? Mario previously wrote: No, it is not true that only RGs can do something about it as George Pinto and Rajan Parrikar and Anil Desai, three foren NRGs, have already demonstrated by their stellar work in Goa. Other foren NRG's like Arwin Mesquita are confronting Goan legislators and Carmen Miranda is trying to light a fire under local RGs. All this at remarkable personal cost in terms of time and money. Tony replied: Do you selectively read posts? Haven't I commended doers like George Pinto in my previous post when I mentioned adnauseam that if you love Goa, translate your words into action and don't mealy mouth unwanted, condescending advice to the RGs. Unless NRGs have the power of the vote and in substantial quantity, voting patterns will follow traditional lines. We are the voters. Non-national NRGs cannot change this. Mario responds: So, I see that you selectively commend NRGs whom you like. I guess you think Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, Anil, etc. are spending their precious time and money because they don't love Goa, and just want to show the Goan peasants how smart they are. I don't think you know these people. No one who lives in foren wastes their time and money carelessly. But, you have finally put your finger on the problem. It is you RG voters who are the primary problem, which is what I have been saying all along. Nothing is going to seriously change until you stop electing and re-electing corrupt politicians. Even a few to start with would be good. Mario previously wrote: I'll give you an example based on the reality of India. India was going nowhere during its first 50 years since Independence. Corruption and waste at all levels was rampant and Indians were draining at an alarming rate to the benefit of other countries. Then suddenly the founding families were gone and common sense began to assert itself in the form of new leadership like Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi, who doesn't get enough credit in my opinion for exerting tremendous positive leadership while knowing when to grab the limelight and when to step back and let others get the limelight. Look at the difference this has made to India's economy in just a few years even with the old line communists in their coalition trying desperately to drag them back. Tony replied: Manmohan and Sonia are hardly NRIs in the context of this discussion? Pretty dumb if you think so. So also you prove my point that only RIs and RGs can make an effective change. Mario responds: Tony, let go of that bull's shempdi or you will hurt yourself:-)) The point I was making was that: a) India was a mess because of Nehru's socialist policies that
[Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Tony D'sa writes: That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/ Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself. For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country ? Have you fought injustice ? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen ? These are important questions and distinguishes a person from being an opportunist and an conscientious citizen. Yes, America may be great, but what is your contribution to making it great ? If you didnt contribute to any change and just grabbed the opportunity ( surely I dont deny that to be successful in those countries one has to work hard and all that but let me tell you in India, one has to work much harder to be half successful as abroad --- and that is fact of the matter), then how will you change things if you come back to Goa/India ? I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it takes. regards, samir
[Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter.
Dear Brother and Sister R G's. It is a common perception among NRGs, that : 1. Each and every one of our RGs is a good-for-nothing waiting only for a hand out from the NRG brothers and sisters and waiting with an open mouth for the next visa to fall from their NRG relations. 2. Goa is a mess and that we are incapable of doing anything about it. But they forget, that it is we and only we that can effectively change what is happening in Goa. They can only preach and give us advice which is based on their own frame of reference which no longer holds validity in the reality of Goa today. 3. So Goa is corrupt. So Goa has open cast mines. America has no corruption? Nor Britain, nor France, nor Germany, nor Australia? So you my dear NRG friends will have me and my other gullible brothers believe that these countries are pristine. Of course you have corruption but it is guised in a semblance of legality like the CEO of a company (I think it was Lehman Bros) who took millions just to liquidate the company. And no, there is no Mafia - these hoods belong to backward countries like India and in particular the state of Goa. There is no open cast mining? What about the rape of the land in the American coal mines? What about the human tragedy that we read about? And what about the destruction to the environment that has been caused by the west. Our NRG irmaoes endorse these things - after all the West can do no wrong. What about the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki even when the Americans knew that the Japanese were losing the war - that was perfectly 4.We can only be saved by the advice rather the 'pontificating' of some NRGs from their comfort zones. 5. Please don't call foren Goans 'bootlickers' it hurts their pride,Use 'toadies' or some such term. 6. Please don't remind the NRGs - at least those who pontificate on Goanet that they are 'second class' citizens of their newly acquired nationalities 7. Please remind the NRGs that they are free to go walkabout in Harlem, Soho, etc whenever they feel like. It is perfectly safe. 8. Please don't ever tell them, 'Mid pleasures and palaces though we may roam,Be it ever so humble, there's no place like home;' -- Tony de Sa tonyd...@gmail.com M : +91 9975 162 897 Ph. : +91 832 2470 148 ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
[Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:18:35 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com 1. Each and every one of our RGs is a good-for-nothing waiting only for a hand out from the NRG brothers and sisters and waiting with an open mouth for the next visa to fall from their NRG relations. Mario responds: Poppycock. There are many good RGs doing their best and offering positive and constructive solutions for Goa, like Floriano and Venita for example. Unfortunately, there are also some RG and deshi NRG chest-thumpers who have decided that foren NRGs are a bigger problem than the corruption and mess in Goa, who are completely wasting their time and energy and deflecting attention from what needs to be done. Tony writes: 2. Goa is a mess and that we are incapable of doing anything about it. But they forget, that it is we and only we that can effectively change what is happening in Goa. They can only preach and give us advice which is based on their own frame of reference which no longer holds validity in the reality of Goa today. Mario responds: Yes and no. Yes, it is true that you RGs and deshi NRGs have shown yourselves incapable of doing anything about the mess in Goa. If you had been capable, we wouldn't be having this discussion now, would we? No, it is not true that only RGs can do something about it as George Pinto and Rajan Parrikar and Anil Desai, three foren NRGs, have already demonstrated by their stellar work in Goa. Other foren NRG's like Arwin Mesquita are confronting Goan legislators and Carmen Miranda is trying to light a fire under local RGs. All this at remarkable personal cost in terms of time and money. Yes, we can give you advice based on what we have seen work in other countries, which is mostly based on common sense. No, you are wrong that it does not hold validity in the reality of Goa today, assuming that there is still something called common sense left in Goa. I'll give you an example based on the reality of India. India was going nowhere during its first 50 years since Independence. Corruption and waste at all levels was rampant and Indians were draining at an alarming rate to the benefit of other countries. Then suddenly the founding families were gone and common sense began to assert itself in the form of new leadership like Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi, who doesn't get enough credit in my opinion for exerting tremendous positive leadership while knowing when to grab the limelight and when to step back and let others get the limelight. Look at the difference this has made to India's economy in just a few years even with the old line communists in their coalition trying desperately to drag them backwards. Tony wrote: America has no corruption? Nor Britain, nor France, nor Germany, nor Australia? So you my dear NRG friends will have me and my other gullible brothers believe that these countries are pristine. Of course you have corruption but it is guised in a semblance of legality like the CEO of a company (I think it was Lehman Bros) who took millions just to liquidate the company. Mario responds: There is corruption from time to time in the countries you have listed. The difference you seem to be missing is that, in the west, when corruption is found the perpetrators are prosecuted and brought to justice. Taking millions just to liquidate a company may look corrupt to you, but if it was done legally, it could not correctly be described as corrupt in proper context. Tony wrote: What about the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki even when the Americans knew that the Japanese were losing the war - Mario responds: This is a false description of what happened. It was Emperor Hirohito and the Japanese leadership who were responsible for the casualties at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japanese, who started the war for the US by bombing Pearl Harbor without warning, refused to surrender before and after the bombing of Hiroshima, and only surrendered after the second bombing of Nagasaki. Because of how the Japanese had fought before that, the estimates of the casualties on the Allied side to finish the war by physically attacking Japan was considered too high. In a war the objective is to kill the enemy while minimizing casualties among your own people. The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki brought a brutal four year war to a screeching halt in just four days, unfortunately at an estimated cost of some 200,000 enemy casualties, all of which could have been avoided if the Japanese had surrendered before then. Tony wrote: 4. We can only be saved by the advice rather the 'pontificating' of some NRGs from their comfort zones. Mario responds: If the RG's wake up and start doing something tangible, all the NRGs can can happily go back to their comfort zones. I'm sure Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, et. al. have other good uses for their time. Tony wrote: 5. Please don't call foren Goans 'bootlickers' it hurts their
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter.
Mario, Incidentally, you have identified both Moidekars [who are also known for their pixeapona] to a third Moidekar I am told that 3 is crowd :) Whatever happened to the rest of RG Goans??? Cheers floriano goasuraj 9890470896 PS: Sometimes Pixo gets the cake. This has been proved when Moira Church got its most sonorous Bell in the auction because a Xanno Moidekar (not the UK'ite) wore a kasti and started besting the bets to the consternation of rank Batkars in suits boots and ties. It is also believed that this Pixo Moidekar coolly called for his valet after the auction who handed back to him his suit boot and tie :) PPS: Goa's Need of the Hour...What's Zat?? ... Continuos pealing of Moira Church Bell to wake up RG Goans??? - Original Message - From: Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:10 PM Subject: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter. Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:18:35 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com There are many good RGs doing their best and offering positive and constructive solutions for Goa, like Floriano and Venita for example
