Re: [Goanet] Repossession sans Possession - Interesting misconcept.
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Paulo here's what I got from a Yahoo search. --- 1. India's Use of Force in Goa by A. G. Rubinoff price: $28.13 Ships within 3 weeks add to wishlist Publisher: POPULAR PRAKASHAN Date Published: 1971 Description: Published by POPULAR PRAKASHAN in 1971, hardback with D/J, medium size, good in good D/W, faded, wear to edges, internally good. 18118B3BRO3D* 7973135 (37-55) read more condition: Book: seller information: Name: Bookbarn Ltd, UNITED KINGDOM Reliability: 2. India's Use of Force in Goa by Rubinoff, Arthur G. price: $29.95 Ships within 3 weeks add to wishlist Binding: Hardcover Description: Dust Jacket Included. Bombay. 1971. 134p. d/w sl soiled. vg. read more condition: Book: seller information: Name: Prabhu Book Exports, INDIA Reliability: Here is some other info on Prof. Rubinoff. India's use of force in Goa by Arthur G Rubinoff Language: English Type: Book Publisher: Bombay, Popular Prakashan [1971] OCLC: 213679Cite this Item Professor Rubinoff has written an article, entitled “The Diaspora as a Factor in India-U.S Relations”, that has been accepted for publication by Asian Affairs, and will be re-printed by the Oxford University Press. Professor Rubinoff publications also include: The Construction of a Political Community: Identity and Integration in Goa, India's Use of Force in Goa, and Canada and South Asia: Political and Strategic Religions. He has also written numerous articles and papers on examining Indian politics and American and Canadian Perceptions and Policies toward India. I am surprised that Paulo never heard of this book. Coming to the point he raised that Goa may cease to exist, I again point him to Rubinoff. In one of his essay in a book on India's intergation, he last line is: With each passing day, Goa becomes like the rest of India. So, the future is predictable though Goa will exist but not as you and I knew it. As you said, blame Goans for not pressing to be independent in independent India and blame them again for the what is happening today regards to the politial mess and the destruction and plundering of Goa by voting the politicians with a bad track record again and again. I won't into the other homogenous and other issues as it would spiral into an inconclusive debate. Let the winds of change below. Eugene 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
Re: [Goanet] Repossession sans Possession - Interesting misconcept.
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Jose, You are right only because I think it is too late for Goa to be independent. In the 1960s, Goans should have demanded to be given a choice, through a formal plebiscite, probably organised by the UN, just like it happened in East Timor in 2000. But we were too sossegado and we allowed ourselves to be conquered, yet again. But if someday in the future India starts breaking-up, like George says it may be possible, then I would definitely defend the idea of an independent state of Goa. At the moment, it is just impossible. Question is: Will Goans still have Goa in the future? Will Goa still maintain its distinguished cultural identity in the future? It is difficult to tell, especially with so many Goans leaving Goa and so many emigrants moving to Goa. Each time I visit Goa I hear more and more Hindi and less and less Konkani. And with Marathi given equal status to Konkani, it is just a question of time for Marathi to replace Konkani completely. I have no doubt. With Konkani gone, that will be the end of our cultural identity. Just my opinion. Best regards Paulo. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:goanet- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jose Colaco Sent: 01 March 2007 04:25 To: Goanet Subject: [Goanet] Repossession sans Possession - Interesting misconcept. === jc's response === Dear George, I definitely could not have been one of the individuals in your poll; Paulo neither. And from what I know, both Paulo and I are practising Catholics. I absolutely and utterly do NOT believe that Goa should be separate from India. It is my impression that Paulo too believes likewise. In his post, Paulo is stating the obvious. He is talking about possession being a requisite for repossession. Forget legalese...it is plain and simple English. One cannot take back what one did not legally hold title for in the first place. One can only countermand, confiscate, and utilise what is known as 'adverse possession'. Eugene homogenicity propostion sounds interesting. Using that as a platform, I suppose India can take over Bangladesh et China can take over parts of India which it considers homogenous with China. ..and the Andaman Islands - Any thoughts from Eugene or Arthur? ah well have a good day ...all you good folks. jc
Re: [Goanet] Repossession sans Possession - Interesting misconcept. - response to Paulo (final)
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1: George Pinto wrote: In my interaction with Goan expats in the last 5 years, I have been surprized that a majority believe Goa should be separate from India (at least in the Catholic community). 2: jc noted: I definitely could not have been one of the individuals in your (George Pinto's) poll; Paulo neither. And from what I know, both Paulo and I are practising Catholics. I absolutely and utterly do NOT believe that Goa should be separate from India. It is my impression that Paulo too believes likewise. 3: Paulo Colaco Dias writes: You (JC) are right only because I think it is too late for Goa to be independent. === jc's response: Dear Paulo, I trust that you noted the following points in the George Pinto post a: interaction with Goan expats in the last 5 years (not ..the last 25 or 35 or ~ 45 years but ..5 years) b: Catholics (not.. Goans but ..Catholic Goans) c: believe (as is prevalent. now ...or atleast within the past 5 years) d: should be (not .. should have been) BTW: I hope China will not read the Correia/Rubinoff 'homogenicity' comment. There are lots of border areas which are homogenous with China - esp as China has never recognised the ( British i.e. Colonial/Imperialist) General McMahon 1914 line of demarcation. We both have noted the naiveity of that Correia/Rubinoff 'homogenicity' argument vis a vis (say) Bangladesh and Nepal. And if India (using the Correia/Rubinoff 'homogenicity' argument) can claim title for Goa, would that give third party proprietary interests in Goa (under Indian/Common law) to other members of India i.e. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Burma and possibly Afghanistan? Or was the 'proprietary interest in Goa' expressly or impliedly excluded in the 1947/1971 Partition/Bangladesh creation agreements ? just curious (the Andamans notwithstanding) jc as Vidhyaghar notes : Question everything ...especially statements put out by politicians and by those who purport to put politicians on a pedestal - many with Goveian blindness, deafness and stubborness.
[Goanet] Repossession sans Possession - Interesting misconcept.
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1: Paulo Colaco Dias wrote: The Republic of India never exercised sovereignty over Goa before so how could the Republic of India (Indian Union) repossess Goa? 2: Eugene Correia responded : The Indian reason for repossessing, reclaiming or recovering Goa lies in the fact that Goa has been a homogenous part of a place on earth called India from times immemorial. The geographical continuity of Goa to India cannot be disputed. As per international jurisdiction, India's act was of aggression. It is a fine line between self-determination and agression when it comes to nationalism versus colonialism. This subject is dealt well in my friend Prof. Arthur Rubinoff's book 3: George Pinto wrote: In my interaction with Goan expats in the last 5 years, I have been surprized that a majority believe Goa should be separate from India (at least in the Catholic community). === jc's response === Dear George, I definitely could not have been one of the individuals in your poll; Paulo neither. And from what I know, both Paulo and I are practising Catholics. I absolutely and utterly do NOT believe that Goa should be separate from India. It is my impression that Paulo too believes likewise. Goans might be uniformly disturbed by the recent pollution, reconversion of land, crime, destruction of the environment and the political mess (controlled from Delhi); they might be saddened by the unnecessary spat between the Indian Navy aand Goans wrt Dabolim and Anjediva but NOT ONE of the Hindu or Catholic Goans I have interacted with in the last 5 years has expressed the belief that Goa should be separate from India. In his post, Paulo is stating the obvious. He is talking about possession being a requisite for repossession. Forget legalese...it is plain and simple English. One cannot take back what one did not legally hold title for in the first place. One can only countermand, confiscate, and utilise what is known as 'adverse possession'. There indeed is a fine line between self-determination and agression when it comes to nationalism versus colonialism...provided the determination is truly 'self'. If not, that fine line will easily by shifted - as it was it by our Goveian amighs. If one studies the reasons for the failure of the League of Nations, and the struggle for the development of the United Nations charter and its eventual (recent) undermining, one will understand why International Jurisdiction will call Aggression exactly what it is i.e. Aggression. International Law ...any Law for that matter does not discriminate between the powerful and not so powerful. It behooves us to also study the origins of the European Union especially the Why? There is an alternative to aggression i.e. a negotiated settlement. That however, as you have noted in the recent and ongoing adventures of our Goveian compadres os senhores Jorge ani Deek, is neither politically nor financially expedient. Politicians are famous for pretending to look for a negotiated settlement when in actual fact they are not; for pretending to give Peace a chance when in actual fact they are not, for being non violent when they are not. Ever wondered why Mahatma Gandhi was on a 'fast unto death' ? BTW: Wonder what Eugene's friend Prof. Arthur Rubinoff thought of East Timor or of Sadaam's journey into Kuwait? Do either you or your friend Prof Arthur Rubinoff advocate that Eire walks into Ulster? If not why not? If yes where have you two written about it? Eugene homogenicity propostion sounds interesting. Using that as a platform, I suppose India can take over Bangladesh et China can take over parts of India which it considers homogenous with China. ..and the Andaman Islands - Any thoughts from Eugene or Arthur? ah well have a good day ...all you good folks. jc
