Re: Does the GWT magic ever fail you?
On Nov 12, 12:36 pm, Thomas Broyer t.bro...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, November 12, 2011 6:17:59 PM UTC+1, David Vree wrote: Last year, they reworked the compiler internals to make it possible to optimize the output even more. That introduced a few bugs, but they were quickly patched (hey, Google relies heavily on GWT, and they all run from trunk, so any bug they introduce hit them right away, and thus has to be fixed quickly. The fact that Google is eating their own dog food with GWT is probably one of the most important considerations. Bugs happen, but their motivation to address them quickly seems very high. Thats good enough for me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: Does the GWT magic ever fail you?
Most of the time, you'll be debugging in DevMode, against your Java code, within your Java IDE, using any Java debugger. GWT 2.5 will generate SourceMaps so you can see your Java code in your browser's dev tools, set breakpoints in the Java code to pause the JS engine, etc. See https://plus.google.com/110412141990454266397/posts/iqXo5AyHkyd and http://www.2ality.com/2011/07/firefox-sourcemap.html In the mean time, or in browsers where SourceMaps aren't supported, GWT generates symbolMaps that allow you to find where an obfuscated function name comes from in your Java code. It can also be used to automatically deobfuscate stack traces (so you can, for instance, send a client-side exception to the server for logging –using java.util.logging and the SimpleRemoteLogHandler or RequestFactoryLogHandler–, and have the stacktrace automatically deobfuscated in your logs). You can also use the StackTraceDeobfuscator manually on the server-side; or look-up in the symbolMaps by yourself (I regularly do it when I can't reproduce a bug in DevMode). It's important to note that symbolMaps only map methods, whereas SourceMaps map down to the expression level. So no, it's not a problem. Also, if your application is big enough, even if you use plain JavaScript instead of GWT, you'll want to use a JS compiler (such as the Closure Compiler) or JS minifier; so you'll have the same issues. The Closure Compiler generates SourceMaps, but I don't think any compiler but GWT produces the equivalent of the symbolMaps and have the equivalent of the StackTraceDeobfuscator. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/6q-NbyuYW-YJ. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: Does the GWT magic ever fail you?
@Samyem -- Good point about the async RPC...we also had that issue when debugging and/or integration testing Flex/Actionscript. @Jeff -- Your metaphore is correct...to continue it, I'd say I trust my Java/C++/C# compilers a lot. My concern is exactly whether or not the GWT compiler has issues. Do you disable optimizations during development or is that for production code too? @Thomas - Sourcemap is incredible if it works as advertisedis that how Eclipse keeps the Java debugger in sync with the browser Javascript execution? Thanks everyone for your answers. Dave On Nov 12, 4:52 am, Thomas Broyer t.bro...@gmail.com wrote: Most of the time, you'll be debugging in DevMode, against your Java code, within your Java IDE, using any Java debugger. GWT 2.5 will generate SourceMaps so you can see your Java code in your browser's dev tools, set breakpoints in the Java code to pause the JS engine, etc. Seehttps://plus.google.com/110412141990454266397/posts/iqXo5AyHkydandhttp://www.2ality.com/2011/07/firefox-sourcemap.html In the mean time, or in browsers where SourceMaps aren't supported, GWT generates symbolMaps that allow you to find where an obfuscated function name comes from in your Java code. It can also be used to automatically deobfuscate stack traces (so you can, for instance, send a client-side exception to the server for logging –using java.util.logging and the SimpleRemoteLogHandler or RequestFactoryLogHandler–, and have the stacktrace automatically deobfuscated in your logs). You can also use the StackTraceDeobfuscator manually on the server-side; or look-up in the symbolMaps by yourself (I regularly do it when I can't reproduce a bug in DevMode). It's important to note that symbolMaps only map methods, whereas SourceMaps map down to the expression level. So no, it's not a problem. Also, if your application is big enough, even if you use plain JavaScript instead of GWT, you'll want to use a JS compiler (such as the Closure Compiler) or JS minifier; so you'll have the same issues. The Closure Compiler generates SourceMaps, but I don't think any compiler but GWT produces the equivalent of the symbolMaps and have the equivalent of the StackTraceDeobfuscator. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: Does the GWT magic ever fail you?
On Saturday, November 12, 2011 6:17:59 PM UTC+1, David Vree wrote: @Samyem -- Good point about the async RPC...we also had that issue when debugging and/or integration testing Flex/Actionscript. @Jeff -- Your metaphore is correct...to continue it, I'd say I trust my Java/C++/C# compilers a lot. My concern is exactly whether or not the GWT compiler has issues. Do you disable optimizations during development or is that for production code too? Last year, they reworked the compiler internals to make it possible to optimize the output even more. That introduced a few bugs, but they were quickly patched (hey, Google relies heavily on GWT, and they all run from trunk, so any bug they introduce hit them right away, and thus has to be fixed quickly. That's not much different than the compiler bug in Java 7, fixed a few weeks later in 7.0.1. @Thomas - Sourcemap is incredible if it works as advertisedis that how Eclipse keeps the Java debugger in sync with the browser Javascript execution? Not at all. When you run in DevMode, you really run your Java code. The plugin you install in your browser calls your DevMode code server whenever it needs to reach your code; and when you use JSNI in your code, it's sent to the browser to be evaluated there. Debugging in Eclipse is then really just debugging Java code, connecting to the DevMode code server with no more than a basic Java debugger. See http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/doc/latest/DevGuideCompilingAndDebugging.html#DevGuideDevMode and http://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/wiki/DesignOOPHM for details. AFAICT, the DevMode plugin you install in your browser might at some time be deprecated in favor of on-the-fly generation of SourceMaps and non-optimized JavaScript. But that's in really early stages (see the comments on https://plus.google.com/110412141990454266397/posts/iqXo5AyHkyd, search for super draft mode) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/mOul0XfpLQoJ. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: Does the GWT magic ever fail you?
On 11/12/2011 10:17 AM, David Vree wrote: @Samyem -- Good point about the async RPC...we also had that issue when debugging and/or integration testing Flex/Actionscript. @Jeff -- Your metaphore is correct...to continue it, I'd say I trust my Java/C++/C# compilers a lot. My concern is exactly whether or not the GWT compiler has issues. Do you disable optimizations during development or is that for production code too? I want as little code sent to the client on startup as possible, so I only disable when there's a problem. Actually, I do not disable optimization, I recompile with the -STYLE DETAILED argument. This provides enough detail to work through the behavior with FireBug or whatever IE provides. My experience is that I inevitably get bit when I don't test on at least three different browsers. I usually use the set (Safari, IE, FF). Also, I don't support IE 6, which decision might not be an option for you. This technique is separate from the -OPTIMZE, -EA, and -DRAFTCOMPILE arguments. I haven't seen any issues with optimization. @Thomas - Sourcemap is incredible if it works as advertisedis that how Eclipse keeps the Java debugger in sync with the browser Javascript execution? Thanks everyone for your answers. Thanks for continuing the conversation, jec Dave On Nov 12, 4:52 am, Thomas Broyer t.bro...@gmail.com wrote: Most of the time, you'll be debugging in DevMode, against your Java code, within your Java IDE, using any Java debugger. GWT 2.5 will generate SourceMaps so you can see your Java code in your browser's dev tools, set breakpoints in the Java code to pause the JS engine, etc. Seehttps://plus.google.com/110412141990454266397/posts/iqXo5AyHkydandhttp://www.2ality.com/2011/07/firefox-sourcemap.html In the mean time, or in browsers where SourceMaps aren't supported, GWT generates symbolMaps that allow you to find where an obfuscated function name comes from in your Java code. It can also be used to automatically deobfuscate stack traces (so you can, for instance, send a client-side exception to the server for logging –using java.util.logging and the SimpleRemoteLogHandler or RequestFactoryLogHandler–, and have the stacktrace automatically deobfuscated in your logs). You can also use the StackTraceDeobfuscator manually on the server-side; or look-up in the symbolMaps by yourself (I regularly do it when I can't reproduce a bug in DevMode). It's important to note that symbolMaps only map methods, whereas SourceMaps map down to the expression level. So no, it's not a problem. Also, if your application is big enough, even if you use plain JavaScript instead of GWT, you'll want to use a JS compiler (such as the Closure Compiler) or JS minifier; so you'll have the same issues. The Closure Compiler generates SourceMaps, but I don't think any compiler but GWT produces the equivalent of the symbolMaps and have the equivalent of the StackTraceDeobfuscator. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Does the GWT magic ever fail you?
My company has taken the decision to move from Flex to HTML5/ Javascript for a corporate web-app. So far we are very impressed with GWT and are thinking of utilizing it, especially since we are mostly a Java house. My biggest concern, however, is the wonderful magic that is the GWT Javascript compiler. If this thing produces production code that is different from the development code, or if the Javascript isn't aligned with the Java, I fear we will be unable to effectively diagnose/debug the problem. Has this been a problem for folks? Is there some other concern we should be aware of? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: Does the GWT magic ever fail you?
Well there are some cases where the development code is not the same as the executed Javascript code. You'd typically notice this around async RPC calls where the order of events during Java based debugging session is different from the Javascript. But then again this is something you'd have to design around and always be mindful of async operations. Just because it seems to work in development mode does not necessarily ensure it'll behave the same with javascript, but if you know how to properly deal with non-sequential operations, yoiu should be okay. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/e9uN6tV0GmYJ. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: Does the GWT magic ever fail you?
In my experience, debugging has been OK as long as you are savvy with dev mode. We also have our own exceptions and use GWT logger extensively. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/4sLDJWmzpP8J. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
Re: Does the GWT magic ever fail you?
On 11/11/2011 12:39 PM, David Vree wrote: My company has taken the decision to move from Flex to HTML5/ Javascript for a corporate web-app. So far we are very impressed with GWT and are thinking of utilizing it, especially since we are mostly a Java house. My biggest concern, however, is the wonderful magic that is the GWT Javascript compiler. If this thing produces production code that is different from the development code, or if the Javascript isn't aligned with the Java, I fear we will be unable to effectively diagnose/debug the problem. Not to belittle your observation, but replace Javascript with object code and Java with C. It's a good question - how much do you trust your compiler? As a profession, we've apparently dealt with this issue in the past: One thing we do is to disable optimizations. GWT has a compiler mode for that. However, it produces more code, and one aspect of GWT is to reduce code bloat. Most real-world compilers have similar a trade-off. Another thing we do is instrument our code. For example, GWT supports the java.util.logger framework. We also employ test-driven development. There is the GWTTest environment as well as other, superb test frameworks. Has this been a problem for folks? Is there some other concern we should be aware of? I'd suggest, if your group hasn't done so, that you create a proof-of-concept, deploy it to a select group of blind men, and ask them to describe the resulting Elephant. Bueno Suerte, jec -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Google Web Toolkit group. To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-web-toolkit?hl=en.
