Re: [GRASS-PSC] [GRASS-dev] Comment regarding PSC election

2016-07-26 Thread Moritz Lennert 

On 26/07/16 00:05, Markus Neteler wrote:

On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Michael Barton  wrote:

My perspective is that active contributors to the project should vote. How to 
define them is a
more complicated issue and one of the things that prompted the long email chain 
in the PCS IIRC.


Indeed
Additionally, it is *very* complicated to define who is a community member.

Two options yet to consider:

- the ChangeLog contains some references to code contributors without
SVN core access, e.g.

# incomplete "grep":
zgrep -i contributed ChangeLog.gz
  manual: example update (contributed by Vero Andreo)
  (contributed by Paul Kelly, trunk r68308)
  example added (contributed by Vero Andreo) (trunk, r68187)
  (trunk, r67581; contributed by Vero Andreo)
  r67571, r67572 (contributed by Vero Andreo)
  v.krige: updated to rgrass7 - sync to trunk (contributed by
  manual: more examples (contributed by Veronica Andreo)
  of NC example added (contributed by Carol X Garzon-Lopez)
  semi-synthetic NC example added (contributed by Carol X
  example added (contributed by Vero Andreo); msg enhancement
  manual: example expanded (contributed by Vero Andreo)
  (contributed by Aldo Clerici)
  vector/v.to.3d/trans3.c: fix compiler warnings (contributed by
* r.mapcalc/r3.mapcalc: graph2() function added (contributed by
* v.split/segment/parallel manuals: improvements (contributed by
* v.split manual: new NC examples (contributed by Milena
* area_poly1.c function documentation improved (contributed by
  contributed by Martin Landa 
* help page contributed by Trevor Wiens 
* help page contributed by Trevor Wiens 
* EPS output added (contributed by Bruno Caprile, ITC-irst)

In fact, all should have been added here:
https://trac.osgeo.org/grass/browser/grass/trunk/contributors.csv
but that file didn't get updated lately.

Suggestion: updated this file from the ChangeLog and add to the list
of eligible voters. The next PSC may improve the process then.



+ for this as an intermediate solution for now (although for some people 
on the contributors list, I'm not even sure they have svn access as some 
of the names sound like memories from CVS times ;-). I also don't know 
how systematic these mentions of contributors are in the svn logs...


I actually don't think that we are in so much danger of a "hostile 
takeover", so having everyone subscribed to the mailing lists eligible 
to vote does not sound that bad either (possibly with Nikos' suggestion 
of an additional step of having to register as a voter).


If we mirror the way it works in OSGeo, then we would have to define a 
"charter membership" equivalent for the GRASS community which would 
allow to distinguish those that are active in the community, be it as 
developers, documenters, translators, or general advocates.


Moritz
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Re: [GRASS-PSC] [GRASS-dev] Comment regarding PSC election

2016-07-26 Thread Helmut Kudrnovsky 
>This sounds like a good interim step for now. It is something that the new
PSC should continue to work on. 

seconded.



-
best regards
Helmut
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Re: [GRASS-PSC] [GRASS-dev] Comment regarding PSC election

2016-07-25 Thread Michael Barton 
This sounds like a good interim step for now. It is something that the new PSC 
should continue to work on.

Michael

C. Michael Barton
Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity 
Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change
Head, Graduate Faculty in Complex Adaptive Systems Science
Arizona State University

voice:  480-965-6262 (SHESC), 480-965-8130/727-9746 (CSDC)
fax: 480-965-7671 (SHESC),  480-727-0709 (CSDC)
www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton, http://csdc.asu.edu















> On Jul 25, 2016, at 3:05 PM, Markus Neteler  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Michael Barton  
> wrote:
>> My perspective is that active contributors to the project should vote. How 
>> to define them is a
>> more complicated issue and one of the things that prompted the long email 
>> chain in the PCS IIRC.
> 
> Indeed
> Additionally, it is *very* complicated to define who is a community member.
> 
> Two options yet to consider:
> 
> - the ChangeLog contains some references to code contributors without
> SVN core access, e.g.
> 
> # incomplete "grep":
> zgrep -i contributed ChangeLog.gz
>  manual: example update (contributed by Vero Andreo)
>  (contributed by Paul Kelly, trunk r68308)
>  example added (contributed by Vero Andreo) (trunk, r68187)
>  (trunk, r67581; contributed by Vero Andreo)
>  r67571, r67572 (contributed by Vero Andreo)
>  v.krige: updated to rgrass7 - sync to trunk (contributed by
>  manual: more examples (contributed by Veronica Andreo)
>  of NC example added (contributed by Carol X Garzon-Lopez)
>  semi-synthetic NC example added (contributed by Carol X
>  example added (contributed by Vero Andreo); msg enhancement
>  manual: example expanded (contributed by Vero Andreo)
>  (contributed by Aldo Clerici)
>  vector/v.to.3d/trans3.c: fix compiler warnings (contributed by
>* r.mapcalc/r3.mapcalc: graph2() function added (contributed by
>* v.split/segment/parallel manuals: improvements (contributed by
>* v.split manual: new NC examples (contributed by Milena
>* area_poly1.c function documentation improved (contributed by
>  contributed by Martin Landa 
>* help page contributed by Trevor Wiens 
>* help page contributed by Trevor Wiens 
>* EPS output added (contributed by Bruno Caprile, ITC-irst)
> 
> In fact, all should have been added here:
> https://trac.osgeo.org/grass/browser/grass/trunk/contributors.csv
> but that file didn't get updated lately.
> 
> Suggestion: updated this file from the ChangeLog and add to the list
> of eligible voters. The next PSC may improve the process then.
> 
> my 0.02 cents,
> Markus

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Re: [GRASS-PSC] [GRASS-dev] Comment regarding PSC election

2016-07-25 Thread Markus Neteler 
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Michael Barton  wrote:
> My perspective is that active contributors to the project should vote. How to 
> define them is a
> more complicated issue and one of the things that prompted the long email 
> chain in the PCS IIRC.

Indeed
Additionally, it is *very* complicated to define who is a community member.

Two options yet to consider:

- the ChangeLog contains some references to code contributors without
SVN core access, e.g.

# incomplete "grep":
zgrep -i contributed ChangeLog.gz
  manual: example update (contributed by Vero Andreo)
  (contributed by Paul Kelly, trunk r68308)
  example added (contributed by Vero Andreo) (trunk, r68187)
  (trunk, r67581; contributed by Vero Andreo)
  r67571, r67572 (contributed by Vero Andreo)
  v.krige: updated to rgrass7 - sync to trunk (contributed by
  manual: more examples (contributed by Veronica Andreo)
  of NC example added (contributed by Carol X Garzon-Lopez)
  semi-synthetic NC example added (contributed by Carol X
  example added (contributed by Vero Andreo); msg enhancement
  manual: example expanded (contributed by Vero Andreo)
  (contributed by Aldo Clerici)
  vector/v.to.3d/trans3.c: fix compiler warnings (contributed by
* r.mapcalc/r3.mapcalc: graph2() function added (contributed by
* v.split/segment/parallel manuals: improvements (contributed by
* v.split manual: new NC examples (contributed by Milena
* area_poly1.c function documentation improved (contributed by
  contributed by Martin Landa 
* help page contributed by Trevor Wiens 
* help page contributed by Trevor Wiens 
* EPS output added (contributed by Bruno Caprile, ITC-irst)

In fact, all should have been added here:
https://trac.osgeo.org/grass/browser/grass/trunk/contributors.csv
but that file didn't get updated lately.

Suggestion: updated this file from the ChangeLog and add to the list
of eligible voters. The next PSC may improve the process then.

my 0.02 cents,
Markus
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Re: [GRASS-PSC] [GRASS-dev] Comment regarding PSC election

2016-07-25 Thread Michael Barton 
I add that there is probably no perfect solution to this question. There is no 
intent to be exclusive. But tt is not always easy to ID who is actively 
contributing. For example, compiling and disseminating GRASS binaries is an 
essential contribution to the project, but anyone maintaining binaries does not 
necessarily need write access to the SVN, even though they might have such 
access. So we should probably continue to evolve how we identify contributors 
as the project itself evolves. However, changing policies in the midst of an 
ongoing election can cause confusion and possibly even more hard feelings that 
otherwise. The main thing is for you not to feel badly about managing this 
first time election. An important principle is that we will begin to have 
regular elections to allow more participation and the ability to evolve how we 
manage this. 

Michael

C. Michael Barton
Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity 
Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change
Head, Graduate Faculty in Complex Adaptive Systems Science
Arizona State University

voice:  480-965-6262 (SHESC), 480-965-8130/727-9746 (CSDC)
fax: 480-965-7671 (SHESC),  480-727-0709 (CSDC)
www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton, http://csdc.asu.edu















> On Jul 25, 2016, at 2:33 PM, Michael Barton  wrote:
> 
> My perspective is that active contributors to the project should vote. How to 
> define them is a more complicated issue and one of the things that prompted 
> the long email chain in the PCS IIRC. 
> 
> Michael
> 
> C. Michael Barton
> Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity 
> Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change
> Head, Graduate Faculty in Complex Adaptive Systems Science
> Arizona State University
> 
> voice:  480-965-6262 (SHESC), 480-965-8130/727-9746 (CSDC)
> fax: 480-965-7671 (SHESC),  480-727-0709 (CSDC)
> www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton, http://csdc.asu.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2016, at 2:03 PM, Nikos Alexandris  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Michael,
>> 
>> thank you for this valuable insight, as it clearly comes out of great
>> experience.
>> 
>> 
>> Would we, however, consider active community members who use, work and
>> contribute time and expertise to document and demonstrate (in the Wiki
>> and elsewhere) GRASS-GIS, as project contributors?
>> 
>> In the case of Veronica Andreo, I think no one disagrees that her work
>> and content contribution (in the Wiki for example) are useful and
>> exceptionally paradigmatic.  And there are certainly many more active
>> members.
>> 
>> In which case, wouldn't it be fair for such members to be eligible to vote?
>> 
>> 
>> In any case, it is not my intention to reactively cause yet another long
>> discussion.  If there are no further discussions on this, especially from PSC
>> members, the process will carry on As Is.
>> 
>> 
>> If there are, however notions from current PSC members, for favouring,
>> somehow, Veronica Andreo's view, maybe we can at least offer option "ii"
>> (please, see my response to Veronica Andreo's e-mail), that is offer
>> voting right to community members who ask for it?  It implies that such
>> members are active.  Why else should someone ask for voting anyway?
>> 
>> Thank you, Nikos
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> * Michael Barton  [2016-07-25 19:45:04 +]:
>> 
>>> I am concerned that there is a misunderstanding of how the project operates 
>>> and what the PSC does here. In brief, it oversees the "project"--that is, 
>>> the development and distribution of GRASS software. This project involves a 
>>> community of developers who contribute time and expertise to create, 
>>> maintain, and distribute GRASS software. Anyone can join this community, 
>>> but it is not the same as the much larger group of people who use the 
>>> software without contributing to the project. The PSC doesn't really have 
>>> oversight over this much larger user community. I would be equally 
>>> concerned if all the users of Apache software could decide on who should 
>>> oversee the Apache project. My 2 cents.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> C. Michael Barton
>>> Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity
>>> Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change
>>> Head, Graduate Faculty in Complex Adaptive Systems Science
>>> Arizona State University
>>> 
>>> voice:  480-965-6262 (SHESC), 480-965-8130/727-9746 (CSDC)
>>> fax: 480-965-7671 (SHESC),  480-727-0709 (CSDC)
>>> www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton, http://csdc.asu.edu
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 25, 2016, at 10:53 AM, Markus Neteler 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> FYI!
>>> 
>>> -- Forwarded message --
>>> From: "Veronica Andreo" >
>>> Date:

Re: [GRASS-PSC] [GRASS-dev] Comment regarding PSC election

2016-07-25 Thread Michael Barton 
My perspective is that active contributors to the project should vote. How to 
define them is a more complicated issue and one of the things that prompted the 
long email chain in the PCS IIRC. 

Michael

C. Michael Barton
Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity 
Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change
Head, Graduate Faculty in Complex Adaptive Systems Science
Arizona State University

voice:  480-965-6262 (SHESC), 480-965-8130/727-9746 (CSDC)
fax: 480-965-7671 (SHESC),  480-727-0709 (CSDC)
www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton, http://csdc.asu.edu















> On Jul 25, 2016, at 2:03 PM, Nikos Alexandris  
> wrote:
> 
> Dear Michael,
> 
> thank you for this valuable insight, as it clearly comes out of great
> experience.
> 
> 
> Would we, however, consider active community members who use, work and
> contribute time and expertise to document and demonstrate (in the Wiki
> and elsewhere) GRASS-GIS, as project contributors?
> 
> In the case of Veronica Andreo, I think no one disagrees that her work
> and content contribution (in the Wiki for example) are useful and
> exceptionally paradigmatic.  And there are certainly many more active
> members.
> 
> In which case, wouldn't it be fair for such members to be eligible to vote?
> 
> 
> In any case, it is not my intention to reactively cause yet another long
> discussion.  If there are no further discussions on this, especially from PSC
> members, the process will carry on As Is.
> 
> 
> If there are, however notions from current PSC members, for favouring,
> somehow, Veronica Andreo's view, maybe we can at least offer option "ii"
> (please, see my response to Veronica Andreo's e-mail), that is offer
> voting right to community members who ask for it?  It implies that such
> members are active.  Why else should someone ask for voting anyway?
> 
> Thank you, Nikos
> 
> 
> 
> * Michael Barton  [2016-07-25 19:45:04 +]:
> 
>> I am concerned that there is a misunderstanding of how the project operates 
>> and what the PSC does here. In brief, it oversees the "project"--that is, 
>> the development and distribution of GRASS software. This project involves a 
>> community of developers who contribute time and expertise to create, 
>> maintain, and distribute GRASS software. Anyone can join this community, but 
>> it is not the same as the much larger group of people who use the software 
>> without contributing to the project. The PSC doesn't really have oversight 
>> over this much larger user community. I would be equally concerned if all 
>> the users of Apache software could decide on who should oversee the Apache 
>> project. My 2 cents.
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>> C. Michael Barton
>> Director, Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity
>> Professor of Anthropology, School of Human Evolution & Social Change
>> Head, Graduate Faculty in Complex Adaptive Systems Science
>> Arizona State University
>> 
>> voice:  480-965-6262 (SHESC), 480-965-8130/727-9746 (CSDC)
>> fax: 480-965-7671 (SHESC),  480-727-0709 (CSDC)
>> www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton, http://csdc.asu.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2016, at 10:53 AM, Markus Neteler 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> FYI!
>> 
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: "Veronica Andreo" >
>> Date: Jul 25, 2016 7:26 PM
>> Subject: [GRASS-dev] Comment regarding PSC election
>> To: "grass-user" 
>> >, "grass-dev" 
>> >
>> Cc:
>> 
>> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> I just wanted to make a comment regarding the ongoing PSC election.
>> 
>> I got to know how the whole process works only the past days and I must say 
>> I'm rather disappointed. I was happy to see that also users could vote as 
>> Nikos stated in his first email, but then that info was rectified. I read 
>> the emails of grass-psc discussing the matter and also the wiki.
>> 
>> This is my personal opinion and no more than that, but I just think it is a 
>> bit unfair that for not having svn writing access I'm not able to vote. I 
>> don't understand how, as user, I'm entitled to nominate a person for PSC, 
>> but then, I cannot vote. I mean, there are several people with writing 
>> access that have remained inactive for a long time (no contributions to svn, 
>> no answering emails, no commenting on tickets or whatsoever), and IMHO, 
>> while not a developer, I've been pretty active the past 2-3 years. This is 
>> the first time I don't see/feel the community spirit that I've always 
>> praised GRASS for and that was one of the main reasons why I involved myself 
>> in it and spread the love for the project everywhere I went... and that's 
>> sad from my point of view.
>> 
>> Anyway, sorry to bother with this