Re: ABS light
I have occasionally had problems with the ABS light blinking. Everytime it happens, I check the battery connections. If they are slightly loose, it can cause the ABS light to start blinking among other things. Dave 93 GTS Fresno CA. - Original Message - From: "Chase Kimball" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Multiple recipients of list" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 6:30 AM Subject: ABS light Hello all, I am new to this list. Normally I would lurk for a spell, but I am seriously thinking of buying a GTS and need a question answered right away. It's a 93 with ABS and the factory saddlebags, 17K miles, in really nice condition, and he is prepared to accept 6K for it. My problem is that I have borrowed it for the weekend to test, and occasionally the ABS light starts blinking at me. It will start out feeble, then get brighter, and continue blinking for as long as the bike is running. If I turn off the engine and then immediately start it again, the blinking stops. The blinking seems to be triggered by a harder-than-normal stop. So what might this mean? It has happened three times in about four total hours of riding. If it was blinking all the time obviously this would be a problem, since it is intermittent I don't know whether to make an issue of it or not. Could it be something as simple as needing brake fluid in the master cylinder? Thanks for your help. -- ++ +Chase Kimball ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), nom de Plum "Lord Brancaster" aka +"Hannibal" in the Quake Clan "Zero Tolerance." Columnist for +http://www.voodooextreme.com ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) + +"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the +need for illusion is deep." Saul Bellow. + +Visit my home page at http://www.aros.net/~chase to view the +virtual gallery of fantasy art of Jesse Allen, and the home site +of the Wasatch Avian Education Society. ++
Fluff (was Re: ABS HU Return)
On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, SHAWN PEARSALL wrote: Mine was not requested back, so I now have a repaired bike and the original (REBUILDABLE) HU sitting in my garage (Jayright next to that DUC Red Suzuki SV 650 S Canadian VersionPhil...thanks but I'll pass on the RZ's...the 650 S is a DUC Killer!) Yep. A woman here bought one, we traded one day (Duc 900 CR v. SV650) and I'll admit it. The Suzuki is impressive, easy to ride fast in the twisties, light, nimble, has enough power to keep me happy. Wanna buy a Duc? Phil
ABS HU Return
Tom: (Jeff S. in Bergen too!) And all involved...make sure you ask your dealer for the parts back off your bike. The local shop here (which initially behaved strangely) actually did a great job replacing my HU. I asked for the parts back, they said they must hold them in inventory for Yamaha's return...IF REQUESTED BY YAMAHA. Mine was not requested back, so I now have a repaired bike and the original (REBUILDABLE) HU sitting in my garage (Jayright next to that DUC Red Suzuki SV 650 S Canadian VersionPhil...thanks but I'll pass on the RZ's...the 650 S is a DUC Killer!) Remember to ask for your parts back...then count the hours til 90 days...and hopefully go get them. Have fun...ride safely guys and galsout of towners this weekend had a spill here...slid 170 feet into a guardraildidn't walk away...but are alive (specifically due to helmets and riding suits) passenger has broken leg, arm and collar bone (hit guard rail, shattering the side of her helmet) Local news crews each got the police officer on the scene commenting on Helmet save livesNY State is under pressure to retract the Helmet law next...you know my opinion obviouslysafe clean fun kids (at least on your bikes). SP
Re: ABS nightmare...
Since you're to replace your rear swingarm anyway, wouldn't it be cool to replace it with a VTR 1000 swingarm, there's someone around here who knows how to do so. Good luck, Michel - Original Message - From: Crisler, Jon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 9:47 PM Subject: RE: ABS nightmare... This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --_=_NextPart_001_01C01382.F4B59FD6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There has got to be a crashed GTS somewhere that can donate a rear swingarm. It will cost you,but its got to be out there. Man, I would be so pissed at the dealer if that were me. Since MAY Geez-F-xmas. -Original Message- From: Thomas H. Keyworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 3:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: ABS nightmare... Speaking of ABS nightmares. first discovered the problem w/ mine back in Sep '99. Took it in in Oct for a top-end job, 4-1/2 months later (back-ordered rings...) they can't find what's wrong w/ the ABS, even after replacing everything. I needed the bike, so I took it back until they could figure out what to do. End of May I bring it back in to rebuild the suspension, and there it's been ever since. I've gone rounds w/ Danny in Customer "Relations" (800-962-7926), and Sol from the Warranty Dept was supposed to be working on it. The best Danny could do was to send my shop (Montclair Yamaha) an updated set of manuals - real good problem solver he is. Now, I just spoke w/ Montclair this morning and am just now being told that the bearings in the rear swing arm were so badly worn that they wore the bearing cup to an egg-shape. Needless to say they can't come up w/ another swing arm - which I find hard to believe since Japan was producing these bikes up until just last year. They seem to believe that the chattering and locking up of the brakes is not, in fact, faulty ABS but rather a result of the rear wheel chattering because of the worn bearings. 1) Yea, nea? Any opinions out there (I know, silly question). 2) Any rear swing arms available out there? 3) Word of advice - don't wait till you've got 170,000 miles before checking the bearings... (they were fine at 100,000, really!) Thanks, -T '94 GTS == Thomas H. Keyworth http://www.keyworth.net http://www.district37ama.org http://www.jpt-promotions.com == --_=_NextPart_001_01C01382.F4B59FD6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN" HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1" META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2650.12" TITLERE: ABS nightmare.../TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=3D2There has got to be a crashed GTS somewhere that can = donate a rear swingarm.nbsp; It will cost you,but its got to be out = there./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=3D2Man, I would be so pissed at the dealer if that were = me.nbsp; Since MAYnbsp; Geez-F-xmas./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=3D2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2From: Thomas H. Keyworth [A = HREF=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A]/FON= T BRFONT SIZE=3D2Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 3:16 PM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2To: Multiple recipients of list/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Subject: Re: ABS nightmare.../FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=3D2Speaking of ABS nightmares.nbsp;nbsp; first = discovered the problem w/ mine back/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2in Sep '99.nbsp; Took it in in Oct for a top-end = job, 4-1/2 months later/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2(back-ordered rings...) they can't find what's wrong = w/ the ABS, even after/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2replacing everything.nbsp; I needed the bike, so I = took it back until they could/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2figure out what to do.nbsp; End of May I bring it = back in to rebuild the/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2suspension, and there it's been ever since.nbsp; = I've gone rounds w/ Danny in/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Customer quot;Relationsquot; (800-962-7926), and = Sol from the Warranty Dept was/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2supposed to be working on it.nbsp; The best Danny = could do was to send my shop/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2(Montclair Yamaha) an updated set of manuals - real = good problem solver he/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2is./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=3D2Now, I just spoke w/ Montclair this morning and am = just now being told that/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2the bearings in the rear swing arm were so badly = worn that they wore the/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2bearing cup to an egg-shape.nbsp; Needless to say = they can't come up w/ another/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2swing arm -
RE: ABS Nightmare.....
Hey #1 Now that you've told good ol Nikki how to fix the pumpsHE DOES KNOW HOW TO REPAIR THEM! #2
Re: ABS Nightmare.....
Kevin, i worked for FJ1200 owners club on a casual basis , about 1+ years ago . And yes i did strip down and rebuild some ABS pumps but i wasn't the only person who stripped and rebuilt them. I wouldn't have rebuilt an ABS pump with parts missing . I couldn't have sent the parts you say i left out because i didn't have access to peoples names and addresses. I was offering Thomas my help to sort out his ABS fault , but he probobly won't want it now. I've been to your website and read through Rebuilding the GTS1000 ABS Pump , its great info for doing the job at home , anyone taking on this sometimes difficult task should visit your site first. One thing you may want to add to your site is that sometimes during the static ABS test (self-diagnostic test) a fault accures where the front brake line builds up loads of pressure, which causes the lever to extend fully and can blow the mastercylinder seals if you didn't hold the lever thightly enough, while someone releases the brake fluid pressure at the bleed nipple. Jest something to be aware of when doing the test. Poor service should always be highlighted on the list . May be it would be better for all listers if i go to read only mode from now on , for being connected to poor service. Nick T
Re: ABS Nightmare.....
Actually, I appreciate everyone's input. Re: rebuilding the ABS... though I'm sure it can be done, (those on this list are a GREAT resource for such things) my take on the situation is that as long as Yamaha has owned up to the responsibility of fixing it, I'd rather let them play w/ it. (Even though time frames have apparently never been mentioned). Re: taking it to an alternative shop... Montclair has been the only one willing to take care of this bike over the last four years or so. Took it in once to Malcolm Smith's down in Riverside to change the tires. When the mechanic responded w/ "GTS1000? Isn't that a Jet Ski?" I decided "Maybe not...". Fontana Honda/Yamaha seems more interested in Hondas, and Chaparrel over in San Berdoo well, 'nough said 'bout that. Basically I was making a plea for a rear swing arm, if any were available, either from salvage or our buddies over 'cross the Pond, since anything coming from Japan seems to be put on slow boat. I'll probably wind up taking it to a machinist and having it filled and re-bored as Bill suggested (Montclair also offered that as a possibility). I'm going over tomorrow and check out just how bad it is. Thing was, I never noticed a chattering of any kind - but it was always pretty squeaky, just never could find the source. Though I'm still not convinced this is the root of the ABS "problem" - There's a definite "klunk" and then the rear siezes when laid into. I'll be sure to keep everyone posted. Thanks for the help - and again, if there is a swingarm out there, please let me know. -T '94 GTS == Thomas H. Keyworth http://www.keyworth.net http://www.district37ama.org http://www.jpt-promotions.com == - Original Message - From: nicholas.threader [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 3:00 PM Subject: Re: ABS Nightmare. Kevin, i worked for FJ1200 owners club on a casual basis , about 1+ years ago . And yes i did strip down and rebuild some ABS pumps but i wasn't the only person who stripped and rebuilt them. I wouldn't have rebuilt an ABS pump with parts missing . I couldn't have sent the parts you say i left out because i didn't have access to peoples names and addresses. I was offering Thomas my help to sort out his ABS fault , but he probobly won't want it now. I've been to your website and read through Rebuilding the GTS1000 ABS Pump , its great info for doing the job at home , anyone taking on this sometimes difficult task should visit your site first. One thing you may want to add to your site is that sometimes during the static ABS test (self-diagnostic test) a fault accures where the front brake line builds up loads of pressure, which causes the lever to extend fully and can blow the mastercylinder seals if you didn't hold the lever thightly enough, while someone releases the brake fluid pressure at the bleed nipple. Jest something to be aware of when doing the test. Poor service should always be highlighted on the list . May be it would be better for all listers if i go to read only mode from now on , for being connected to poor service. Nick T
ABS nightmare...
** Reply to message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Alas, I was correct in thinking this was absolute bullshit. I have two recourses, as I see it. A) Pay on visa, then dispute the charge. B) Call Yamaha rep and tell them what happened. C)Some happy combination of the above two SO Who remembers the Yamaha service Rep's name/number? -Greg \|/ \|/ Greg Christopher ||[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 4997683 PAGER: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4997683 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why should I waste my time reliving the past when I can spend it worrying about the future?
RE: ABS nightmare...
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --_=_NextPart_001_01C01357.7318EDF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yamaha Customer Service number 800/962-7926 Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/~raddboy Y2K Kawasaki ZRX1100 // '93 Yamaha GTS1000 -Original Message- From: Greg Christopher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 10:13 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: ABS nightmare... ** Reply to message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Alas, I was correct in thinking this was absolute bullshit. I have two recourses, as I see it. A) Pay on visa, then dispute the charge. B) Call Yamaha rep and tell them what happened. C)Some happy combination of the above two SO Who remembers the Yamaha service Rep's name/number? -Greg \|/ \|/ Greg Christopher ||[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 4997683 PAGER: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4997683 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why should I waste my time reliving the past when I can spend it worrying about the future? --_=_NextPart_001_01C01357.7318EDF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN" HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2652.35" TITLERE: ABS nightmare.../TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=2Yamaha Customer Service number 800/962-7926/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC /FONT BRFONT SIZE=2[EMAIL PROTECTED]/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/~raddboy" TARGET="_blank"http://www.geocities.com/~raddboy/A/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Y2K Kawasaki ZRX1100 // '93 Yamaha GTS1000/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2From: Greg Christopher [A HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A]/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 10:13 AM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2To: Multiple recipients of list/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Subject: ABS nightmare.../FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=2** Reply to message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:39:41 -0400 (EDT)/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2Alas, I was correct in thinking this was absolute bullshit./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2I have two recourses, as I see it./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2A) Pay on visa, then dispute the charge./FONT BRFONT SIZE=2B) Call Yamaha rep and tell them what happened./FONT BRFONT SIZE=2C)Some happy combination of the above two/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2SO Who remembers the Yamaha service Rep's name/number?/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2-Greg/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2\|/nbsp; \|/nbsp;nbsp; Greg Christopher/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2nbsp;|nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; |nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; [EMAIL PROTECTED]/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2nbsp;ICQ:nbsp;nbsp; 4997683/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2nbsp;PAGER: A HREF="http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4997683" TARGET="_blank"http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4997683/A/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; [EMAIL PROTECTED]/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=2Why should I waste my time reliving the past when I can spend it worrying about the future?/FONT /P /BODY /HTML --_=_NextPart_001_01C01357.7318EDF0--
RE: ABS nightmare...
I would try talk to them first and tell them that you have no intention of pay for the extra time. Then pay with visa and dispute. Visa is just going ask you if you received the service. They are not interested in getting into the middle of a dispute. I am sorry, I have those numbers at home. Kevin has them, Kevin is our hero! =) Enjoy, Garrett Welch Everett, WA "Trying to save myself but myself keeps slipping away" AMA#500406 http://www.imbc.org ICQ# 1730192 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://gtser.kendra.com -- From: Greg Christopher[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 7:12 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: ABS nightmare... ** Reply to message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Alas, I was correct in thinking this was absolute bullshit. I have two recourses, as I see it. A) Pay on visa, then dispute the charge. B) Call Yamaha rep and tell them what happened. C)Some happy combination of the above two SO Who remembers the Yamaha service Rep's name/number? -Greg \|/ \|/ Greg Christopher ||[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 4997683 PAGER: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4997683 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why should I waste my time reliving the past when I can spend it worrying about the future?
Re: ABS nightmare...
Speaking of ABS nightmares. first discovered the problem w/ mine back in Sep '99. Took it in in Oct for a top-end job, 4-1/2 months later (back-ordered rings...) they can't find what's wrong w/ the ABS, even after replacing everything. I needed the bike, so I took it back until they could figure out what to do. End of May I bring it back in to rebuild the suspension, and there it's been ever since. I've gone rounds w/ Danny in Customer "Relations" (800-962-7926), and Sol from the Warranty Dept was supposed to be working on it. The best Danny could do was to send my shop (Montclair Yamaha) an updated set of manuals - real good problem solver he is. Now, I just spoke w/ Montclair this morning and am just now being told that the bearings in the rear swing arm were so badly worn that they wore the bearing cup to an egg-shape. Needless to say they can't come up w/ another swing arm - which I find hard to believe since Japan was producing these bikes up until just last year. They seem to believe that the chattering and locking up of the brakes is not, in fact, faulty ABS but rather a result of the rear wheel chattering because of the worn bearings. 1) Yea, nea? Any opinions out there (I know, silly question). 2) Any rear swing arms available out there? 3) Word of advice - don't wait till you've got 170,000 miles before checking the bearings... (they were fine at 100,000, really!) Thanks, -T '94 GTS == Thomas H. Keyworth http://www.keyworth.net http://www.district37ama.org http://www.jpt-promotions.com ==
RE: ABS nightmare...
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --_=_NextPart_001_01C01382.F4B59FD6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There has got to be a crashed GTS somewhere that can donate a rear swingarm. It will cost you,but its got to be out there. Man, I would be so pissed at the dealer if that were me. Since MAY Geez-F-xmas. -Original Message- From: Thomas H. Keyworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 3:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: ABS nightmare... Speaking of ABS nightmares. first discovered the problem w/ mine back in Sep '99. Took it in in Oct for a top-end job, 4-1/2 months later (back-ordered rings...) they can't find what's wrong w/ the ABS, even after replacing everything. I needed the bike, so I took it back until they could figure out what to do. End of May I bring it back in to rebuild the suspension, and there it's been ever since. I've gone rounds w/ Danny in Customer "Relations" (800-962-7926), and Sol from the Warranty Dept was supposed to be working on it. The best Danny could do was to send my shop (Montclair Yamaha) an updated set of manuals - real good problem solver he is. Now, I just spoke w/ Montclair this morning and am just now being told that the bearings in the rear swing arm were so badly worn that they wore the bearing cup to an egg-shape. Needless to say they can't come up w/ another swing arm - which I find hard to believe since Japan was producing these bikes up until just last year. They seem to believe that the chattering and locking up of the brakes is not, in fact, faulty ABS but rather a result of the rear wheel chattering because of the worn bearings. 1) Yea, nea? Any opinions out there (I know, silly question). 2) Any rear swing arms available out there? 3) Word of advice - don't wait till you've got 170,000 miles before checking the bearings... (they were fine at 100,000, really!) Thanks, -T '94 GTS == Thomas H. Keyworth http://www.keyworth.net http://www.district37ama.org http://www.jpt-promotions.com == --_=_NextPart_001_01C01382.F4B59FD6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN" HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1" META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2650.12" TITLERE: ABS nightmare.../TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=3D2There has got to be a crashed GTS somewhere that can = donate a rear swingarm.nbsp; It will cost you,but its got to be out = there./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=3D2Man, I would be so pissed at the dealer if that were = me.nbsp; Since MAYnbsp; Geez-F-xmas./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=3D2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2From: Thomas H. Keyworth [A = HREF=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A]/FON= T BRFONT SIZE=3D2Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 3:16 PM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2To: Multiple recipients of list/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Subject: Re: ABS nightmare.../FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=3D2Speaking of ABS nightmares.nbsp;nbsp; first = discovered the problem w/ mine back/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2in Sep '99.nbsp; Took it in in Oct for a top-end = job, 4-1/2 months later/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2(back-ordered rings...) they can't find what's wrong = w/ the ABS, even after/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2replacing everything.nbsp; I needed the bike, so I = took it back until they could/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2figure out what to do.nbsp; End of May I bring it = back in to rebuild the/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2suspension, and there it's been ever since.nbsp; = I've gone rounds w/ Danny in/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Customer quot;Relationsquot; (800-962-7926), and = Sol from the Warranty Dept was/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2supposed to be working on it.nbsp; The best Danny = could do was to send my shop/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2(Montclair Yamaha) an updated set of manuals - real = good problem solver he/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2is./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=3D2Now, I just spoke w/ Montclair this morning and am = just now being told that/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2the bearings in the rear swing arm were so badly = worn that they wore the/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2bearing cup to an egg-shape.nbsp; Needless to say = they can't come up w/ another/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2swing arm - which I find hard to believe since Japan = was producing these/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2bikes up until just last year.nbsp; They seem to = believe that the chattering and/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2locking up of the brakes is not, in fact, faulty ABS = but rather a result of/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2the rear wheel chattering because of the worn = bearings./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=3D21) Yea, nea?nbsp; Any opinions out there (I know, = silly question)./FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D
Re: ABS nightmare...
Hi Thomas, Re your ABS nightmare, I've stripped down quite a few ABS units , repaired them , and done fault finding, for the FJ1200 owners club, work shop( based in the UK ), in the past. If you would like to try and repair your ABS , i'am willing to give you any advice you need , to try and sort yours out. I'am sure other listers will give you advice as well should you need it, as there must be plenty of us who have had problems in the past. It may take a while doing it over the web , but its worth a try. So long as you get your bike back. atb Nick T
Re: ABS nightmare...
--- "Thomas H. Keyworth" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking of ABS nightmares. first discovered the problem w/ mine back in Sep '99. Took it in in Oct for a top-end job, 4-1/2 months later (back-ordered rings...) they can't find what's wrong w/ the ABS, even after replacing everything. Snip all the horror Thanks, -T '94 GTS == Thomas H. Keyworth http://www.keyworth.net http://www.district37ama.org http://www.jpt-promotions.com == This sounds very familiar. If it is an option, run screaming to another dealer--you might still get the same service but at least the scenery will change!!! Concerning the back-order thing--this seems to be a common excuse but sometimes they wait on the rings (a GTS unique part, so maybe..) but then, when they finally get around to putting it back together, someone remembers you need new gaskets--oops! Now these are back-ordered. No real excuse for this, why must we wait on all the back orders seperately This is the shop's fault for poor planning, maybe Yamaha's fault for providing the magic book that estimates hours but NOT PARTS!!!(maybe it does and the service managers don't read it...) Two suggestions-- 1. Get with your regional service representative NOW! Buy him dinner, make him your friend--they are usually nuch smarter than the dealers! 2. Use the parts fiche/service manual to guesstimate the parts required and offer this list to the service manager @ your dealer. NO SENSE waiting 4 months on one back-order and then an additional month on a back-ordered part you knew you needed when you walked through the door 5 months earlier! Thanks for letting me rant, I was having a flash-back... Good Luck! FL Kev __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: ABS nightmare...
bikes up until just last year. They seem to believe that the chattering and locking up of the brakes is not, in fact, faulty ABS but rather a result of the rear wheel chattering because of the worn bearings. 1) Yea, nea? Any opinions out there (I know, silly question). 2) Any rear swing arms available out there? Well, I just ride 'em bikes, but if I was told that I'd probably go find a wheelbarrow to move all that bullshit. If the chattering was so bad to interfere with the ABS, then it wouldn't be the ABS what sent you into the pit lane in the first place, but that weird feeling of leaving home with a perfectly good pair of eggs and returning with an omelette, if you get my drift. Of course, this is just an opinion, I may well be making a complete fool of myself right now. In that case, undoubtedly one of the list mech-gurus will educate us both. As for the swingarm: all other failed, try that thingy called Europe. The GTS is still in my '2000 Yamaha brochure. Roberto.
RE: ABS nightmare...
The Yamaha customer service rep's name is Jordan Cavanaugh and the customer service number is 800-962-7926. There is also an "other" number: 714-761-7435. SO Who remembers the Yamaha service Rep's name/number? -Greg
Re: ABS nightmare...
-Original Message- From: Thomas H. Keyworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, August 31, 2000 3:30 PM Subject: Re: ABS nightmare... snip the bearings in the rear swing arm were so badly worn that they wore the bearing cup to an egg-shape. Looking at the fiche this looks like a needle bearing (haven't had mine apart yet) so are they talking about the race or the swingarm part it fits into? I'll assume swingarm, since the other should be a simple replacement. Before I bought a new swingarm I'd either check their measurements myself with an inside micrometer or maybe a pair of calipers (calipers are easier, mikes are more accurate) or take the swingarm to a competent machinist have him check it. If it is actually worn ask a machinist about boring it oversize shimming it or having it plated / welded and machining it back to size. This kind of stuff is routine for industrial maintenance and for repairing classic / antique cars. This won't be cheap but I'd bet it'll cost less than a new swingarm. Bill == Thomas H. Keyworth http://www.keyworth.net http://www.district37ama.org http://www.jpt-promotions.com ==
Re: ABS Replacement; did you pay labor?
For what it is worth, I did mine in two hours in my garage. I may have done one or two before though. That shop was definetly floundering with bleeding the brakes. Probably did not have the front caliper tilted forward. It is not rocket science
Re: ABS nightmare...
If they replaced EVERYTHING on the ABS and you still have problems, it is concievable it is something else. You are getting chatter on braking? Maybe a person riding by and locking the brakes in front of someone watching the swing arm movement would help isolate the problme
Re: ABS Replacement; did you pay labor?
Hi Greg, Tell your dealer , you didn't realise your bike was to be used for training apprentices when they were replacing your ABS unit. I've taken mine in and out twice , and it only takes 3 hours with a coffee break . atb Nick T
Re: ABS Replacement; did you pay labor?
Just a side note: don't bother with the Better Business Bureu. They have no power, authority or clout with anyone; unless the business you are reporting is a member of the BBB. example: if a potential customer for my store were to call the BBB asking if my company was reputable, the BBB representative would tell the potential customer that they have no information about my company because we are not registered with the BBB. If we do not register with the BBB they don't record any information reported to them, they just throw the info away. I process warranty claims for the wood stoves I sell, and there can be things that are not covered by the warranty. ie: freight and travel (part shipping, technitian travel/mileage.) I don't think any of these charges apply to the Yamaha situation, but just FYI. Louis "Hawkins, Kevin" wrote: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --_=_NextPart_001_01C0128F.064396D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hell, the shops seem to dictate this at random anymore! MOST have had their HUs replaced FREE including parts and ALL labor. 3 hours are plenty to replace an HU!! One hour to replace and 2 to bleed, bleed, bleed, bleed. Seriuosly! If it took them 7 hours, it was due to their own incompetence! Yamaha specifys 3 hours because that is what it would take a COMPETENT mechanic to replace the HU. This HU replacement is JUST LIKE ANY WARRANTY work. Yamaha has given them the parts and will compensate them for resonable labor hours. THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO CHARGE BEYOND THE COMPENSATED LABOR HOURS PROVIDED FOR BY YAMAHA!!! THIS IS ILLEGAL!!! IT IS EITHER A WARRANTY REPLACEMENT OR NOT!! PERIOD!! They can't abitrarily dictate whether Yamaha's labor are sufficient. Read my email to them word for word and then let them know that your are contacting Yamaha Customer Service and the local Better Business Bureau. Have a nice day! :^) -Original Message- From: Greg Christopher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 10:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: ABS Replacement; did you pay labor? For those of you who did get their ABS replaced on Yamaha, Did they charge you full labor? I took mine to Gilroy Yamaha, and first they said I'd have to pay for any labor beyond the small 3 hours Yamaha would pay for. Then when I asked if it was ready, they told me I'd have to pay the labor part. Then I reminded them they'd said I'd only have to pay for anything over what Yamaha gives them. Then they said it took _7_ hours, and they would only charge me four. I haven't picked it up yet; I'm anxiously awaiting your replies. :) -Greg \|/ \|/ Greg Christopher ||[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 4997683 PAGER: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4997683 [EMAIL PROTECTED] The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working. --_=_NextPart_001_01C0128F.064396D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN" HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1" META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2652.35" TITLERE: ABS Replacement; did you pay labor?/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=3D2Hell, the shops seem to dictate this at random = anymore! MOST have had their HUs replaced FREE including parts and ALL = labor. 3 hours are plenty to replace an HU!! One hour to replace and 2 = to bleed, bleed, bleed, bleed. Seriuosly! If it took them 7 hours, it = was due to their own incompetence! Yamaha specifys 3 hours because that = is what it would take a COMPETENT mechanic to replace the HU. This HU = replacement is JUST LIKE ANY WARRANTY work. Yamaha has given them the = parts and will compensate them for resonable labor hours. THEY HAVE NO = RIGHT TO CHARGE BEYOND THE COMPENSATED LABOR HOURS PROVIDED FOR BY = YAMAHA!!! THIS IS ILLEGAL!!! IT IS EITHER A WARRANTY REPLACEMENT OR = NOT!! PERIOD!! They can't abitrarily dictate whether Yamaha's labor are = sufficient. Read my email to them word for word and then let them know = that your are contacting Yamaha Customer Service and the local Better = Business Bureau. /FONT/P PFONT SIZE=3D2Have a nice day! :^)/FONT /P BR BR PFONT SIZE=3D2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2From: Greg Christopher [A = HREF=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A]= /FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 10:18 AM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2To: Multiple recipients of list/FONT BRFONT SIZE=3D2Subject: ABS Replacement; did you pay labor?/FONT /P BR PFONT SIZE=3D2For those of you who did get their ABS replaced on = Yamaha,
RE: ABS Replacement; did you pay labor?
7, in words SEVEN ours for a standard parts replacement ? Did they ever SEE a bike before ? Joerg
RE: ABS Replacement; did you pay labor?
Yamaha picked up the entire tab Shawn P
Re: ABS Replacement; did you pay labor?
--- Greg Christopher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those of you who did get their ABS replaced on Yamaha, Did they charge you full labor? I took mine to Gilroy Yamaha, and first they said I'd have to pay for any labor beyond the small 3 hours Yamaha would pay for. Then when I asked if it was ready, they told me I'd have to pay the labor part. Then I reminded them they'd said I'd only have to pay for anything over what Yamaha gives them. Then they said it took _7_ hours, and they would only charge me four. I haven't picked it up yet; I'm anxiously awaiting your replies. :) -Greg \|/ \|/ Greg Christopher ||[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 4997683 PAGER: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4997683 [EMAIL PROTECTED] The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working. I paid NOTHING and if it took them 7 hours, I bet you are paying for a 4 hour coffee break... FL Kev __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
RE: ABS Replacement; did you pay labor?
I did not pay any labor costs. I'm not sure how long it took them but I dropped the bike off in the morning and they were done by lunchtime. There were no charges at all. As I hear the accounts of how the HU repair went for some of us, I appreciate my dealer (Texas Yamaha in Pasadena, outside Houston) more and more. Gil Hillman
Re: Resolution of ABS HU claim
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Or is my dealer taking me for a ride? Thanks, Stephen '93 GTS1000A, '00 Valkyrie Interstate YES!!! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Resolution of ABS HU claim
Well, Yamaha finally capitulated. They agreed to cover the HU, but not the labor to install it! Seems strange to me. They claim that they'll replace the part, but the labor is my expense because there's no warranty left. Dealer claims labor is about 2 hours, or $100. Dealer also says that list on HU is ~ $1800. I guess I got out okay, seeing how they originally wouldn't accept any responsibility at all. Is this perhaps a change on Yamaha's part from their earlier take that they'd replace it completely free? Or is my dealer taking me for a ride? The tech at the dealer has been very cool, and I find it hard to believe he's doing anything underhanded... Thanks, Stephen '93 GTS1000A, '00 Valkyrie Interstate
RE: Resolution of ABS HU claim
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --_=_NextPart_001_01C003E1.EBFA9CEE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It was my understanding that it was parts and labor. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 6:03 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Resolution of ABS HU claim Well, Yamaha finally capitulated. They agreed to cover the HU, but not the labor to install it! Seems strange to me. They claim that they'll replace the part, but the labor is my expense because there's no warranty left. Dealer claims labor is about 2 hours, or $100. Dealer also says that list on HU is ~ $1800. I guess I got out okay, seeing how they originally wouldn't accept any responsibility at all. Is this perhaps a change on Yamaha's part from their earlier take that they'd replace it completely free? Or is my dealer taking me for a ride? The tech at the dealer has been very cool, and I find it hard to believe he's doing anything underhanded... Thanks, Stephen '93 GTS1000A, '00 Valkyrie Interstate --_=_NextPart_001_01C003E1.EBFA9CEE Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN" HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2650.12" TITLERE: Resolution of ABS HU claim/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=2It was my understanding that it was parts and labor./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2-Original Message-/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [A HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A]/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 6:03 PM/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2To: Multiple recipients of list/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2Subject: Resolution of ABS HU claim/FONT /P BR BR BR PFONT SIZE=2Well, Yamaha finally capitulated.nbsp; They agreed to cover the HU, but/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2not the labor to install it!nbsp; Seems strange to me.nbsp; They claim that they'll/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2replace the part, but the labor is my expense because there's no/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2warranty left.nbsp; Dealer claims labor is about 2 hours, or $100.nbsp; Dealer/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2also says that list on HU is ~ $1800./FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2I guess I got out okay, seeing how they originally wouldn't accept any/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2responsibility at all.nbsp; Is this perhaps a change on Yamaha's part from/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2their earlier take that they'd replace it completely free?nbsp; Or is my dealer/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2taking me for a ride?nbsp; The tech at the dealer has been very cool, and/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2I find it hard to believe he's doing anything underhanded.../FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2Thanks,/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2Stephen/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2'93 GTS1000A, '00 Valkyrie Interstate/FONT /P /BODY /HTML --_=_NextPart_001_01C003E1.EBFA9CEE--
Re: Resolution of ABS HU claim
Since there is no "official" policy on HU out of warranty failure, the Yamaha stance appears to be flexible on a case by case basis. We all were aware that the "Christmas gift" back in December would probably be time-sensitive, the grace period appears to be coming to an end. So everyone needs to test re-test their ABS, try to get failing units replaced before Yamaha closes the door for good. I just replaced my back tire because I had two punctures that occurred the same day on a two hour ride. What are the chances of that happening? They both could have happened at the same time, I guess. I plugged the first hole the tire kept going flat.. then I found the second. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Multiple recipients of list" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 5:02 PM Subject: Resolution of ABS HU claim Well, Yamaha finally capitulated. They agreed to cover the HU, but not the labor to install it! Seems strange to me. They claim that they'll replace the part, but the labor is my expense because there's no warranty left. Dealer claims labor is about 2 hours, or $100. Dealer also says that list on HU is ~ $1800. I guess I got out okay, seeing how they originally wouldn't accept any responsibility at all. Is this perhaps a change on Yamaha's part from their earlier take that they'd replace it completely free? Or is my dealer taking me for a ride? The tech at the dealer has been very cool, and I find it hard to believe he's doing anything underhanded... Thanks, Stephen '93 GTS1000A, '00 Valkyrie Interstate
flat tires (was Re: Resolution of ABS HU claim)
On Fri, 11 Aug 2000, Andy Perry wrote: I just replaced my back tire because I had two punctures that occurred the same day on a two hour ride. What are the chances of that happening? They both could have happened at the same time, I guess. I plugged the first hole the tire kept going flat.. then I found the second. I mentioned that last weekend I picked up a screw in the back tire, and left my bike in the shop for the replacement. When I picked it up today, the guy who worked on it said that the screw was not the real problem, the real problem was a mesquite thorn that was also in the tire from the same ride. It can happen. Phil
Re: ABS HU not covered?!?
ABS unit can fail and you will not recieve a warning light . Because the light warns about electical faults only. ABS unit can seize / jam inside ( not electical ) , but you should have normal braking ( without ABS ). atb Nick T
Re: ABS HU not covered?!?
Does anybody know if the ABS unit can fail when the valve is in the "release" part of the cycle? That would REALLY be a PITA! Bill -Original Message- From: nicholas.threader [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, August 10, 2000 2:02 PM Subject: Re: ABS HU not covered?!? ABS unit can fail and you will not recieve a warning light . Because the light warns about electical faults only. ABS unit can seize / jam inside ( not electical ) , but you should have normal braking ( without ABS ). atb Nick T
ABS HU not covered?!?
Hello, I took my '93 GTS1000 to my local dealer about two weeks ago because my brakes were locking up on heavy braking, with no ABS light. Per the list, I advised the dealer that the problem was known to Yamaha and that Yamaha had agreed to replace the hydraulic unit once per bike. The dealer ordered the hydraulic unit and called to get warranty approval to cover the repair. Yamaha says that they will "partially" cover the repair as a goodwill gesture. I have yet to figure out what exactly "partially" means. In addition, I've been informed that there aren't any hydraulic units left in the United States, so I'm in for a wait... Can anyone advise me how to handle this? I had thought that Yamaha had admitted that they were to blame. What came of the letter Shawn sent to Yamaha back in the spring? Is there someone in particular I should ask for at Yamaha Customer Relations? The lady I talked to tonight wasn't entirely forthcoming as to whether they would cover this or not... Is this not a safety issue? I assume that my bike will stop using ABS unless the ABS light comes on to tell me otherwise, right? Thanks for all of your help! Stephen '93 GTS1000A, '00 Valkyrie Interstate
Re: ABS HU not covered?!?
Hi Stephen, FWIW, don't let the dealer tell you anything about the cost because it would go into his pocket, not Yamaha's. If I were you, I would want to hear it directly from Yamaha if there is any cost associated with the replacement. Otherwise, it sounds as if the dealer is padding his profit line, at your expense and without Yamaha's knowledge. Yamaha has agreed to replace the HU without cost and WITHOUT admitting any fault or liability. Don't ask - don't tell; that would be the best stratagy. If the dealer sqawks about the cost, remind him that we already know what Yamaha Motors has offered and already done. If you hear something different from Yamaha, directly, let us know on the list. To the best of my knowledge, nothing has changed concerning replacement by them. Just let them do it, (at no cost to you), and be about your business. And yes, I'm avoiding touching on the moral, ethical, legal, fairness issues on purpose. That has been beat to death, several times, on the list. If however, you feel an overpowering need to pontificate...go ahead, its a free country. You may, however, be asked to take it off list, very politely, of course. (And it won't be me! :^) ) Take care and do let us know how it goes! Brandon
RE: Number of ABS Repairs so far
Jon, perhaps you get to count them. Mine was fixed and works fine now. Don't forget that a lot of ABS's were fixed under the original factory warranty before the recall. Gil, I think you'll find there has been no "recall" on these units. They are fixed on a 'case-by-case' basis. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
ABS Light
If you spun the rear wheel as the bike was on the center stand, the ABS warning light should be flashing. Is your's continously on? If its flashing, turning the ignition off and the engine kill switch to off then both back on should re-set it. On 26 Jun 2000, at 21:42, John Laurenson wrote: NEXT PROBLEM..I moved the rear wheel while the bike was on the center stand and now the ABS light won't go off. What is the method to turn it off?
Re: Number of ABS Repairs so far
In a message dated 6/17/00 12:20:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ABS's were fixed under the original factory warranty before the recall. It is not a recall. A recall is federally mandated.
Re: Number of ABS Repairs so far
I just picked my 93 up today from the dealer after having the ABS unit replaced under warranty. 56,000 miles - no questions asked. jason cog#62 "Crisler, Jon" wrote: Does anybody have an estimate of the number of ABS repairs done so far under the Yamaha agreement ? I have been out of touch for a while and do not know the status. I know mine needs to be done, since the back is not working. Front is fine.
RE: Number of ABS Repairs so far
Jon, perhaps you get to count them. Mine was fixed and works fine now. Don't forget that a lot of ABS's were fixed under the original factory warranty before the recall. Gil H.
Re: oh boy, not ABS again!
Your mechanic has told a hideous lie. This is the kind of statement that would have me disbelieve everything he ever says in the future, also. In a message dated 05/16/2000 9:03:28 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One more: when I first tried the bike, I checked the rear ABS (too much of a wimp to check the front one, specially first time on a not-even-mine-yet GTS). It didn't work the mechanic said it could be due to a low battery low speed - won't work at less than about 35 mph, he sez. true?
Re: oh boy, not ABS again!
Roberto I've been locking my rear at the bottom of my driveway (really steep hill) daily on the way to work - about 10 MPH. So if mine is typical your mechanic is wrong - might be time for a new mechanic. Bill -Original Message- From: Roberto Alonso [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 12:03 PM Subject: oh boy, not ABS again! snip It didn't work the mechanic said it could be due to a low battery low speed - won't work at less than about 35 mph, he sez. true?
re: broken ABS
** Reply to message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Sun, 23 Apr 2000 14:13:56 -0400 (EDT) 2 IMPORTANT notes here: A) Yamaha is trying to refuse to pay labor on mine since they DIDNT HAVE MY SERIAL NUMBER LISTED. I'm not even going to comment on that. B) Changing fluid IS NOT ENOUGH. Remember, the problem is that the manual doesn't tell you to run the self test when you are flushing the fluid through the system; that means stale fluid will stay in the abs unit even if you change the fluid the normal way. I believe (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the only way to do this is really to get speedbleeders and push the rear brake pedal as the self test cycles the rear solenoid. Front one doesn't seem to be a problem, but you might as well do it for both. To find out how to run the self test , see the service manual. You can basically jump two connector terminals behind the rear seat to enable the test. -Greg \|/ \|/ Greg Christopher ||[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 4997683 PAGER: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4997683 [EMAIL PROTECTED] A good scapegoat is almost as good as a solution.
Broken ABS
well I've discovered that my ABS brakes aren't working on my 93 gts. Can someone update me on the ongoing debate with Yamaha as to if it's covered or not under warranty. My bike has 53,000 miles on it. thanks Jason
Re: Broken ABS
Take it to a dealer to have them confirm it is not working. Have them call their regional RTA for an authorization to replace the hydraulic unit and the labor to install it. Wait for them to finish the job, ride your motorcycle, enjoy it, and stay on top of changing your brake fluid (dot 4) at least once a year to prevent a recurrence. RSRBOB
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
In a message dated 4/19/00 10:10:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Three that come to mind would be the V boost on a V Max, they do not fail to mention the cycling of the V Boost system when the key is powered up, the EXUP system also cycles, and is also directly mentioned in printed format, and the power valves used on some current personal water craft engines, have a cleaning cycle where they open and close as the engine is started, or after it is shut off. Are all of these parts listed as being "serviceable?" If not they are then that's why the details are listed. The reason I referenced these components was to draw a parallel between ABS features and functions, as described in the service manual, and other mechanically/electrically similar features in other motorcycles. Yamaha is very clear on these motor operated devices that they do "cycle" as part of the design. I made no reference to the serviceability, which is not the point I was making here. My point was, that Yamaha in the past, in several areas, has shown a history of explaining what to expect a normal system to do. It was suggested that for any one of a number of reasons, Yamaha "knew" about this cycling, and chose not to mention it. My contention is that is not the way they operate. I believe they want technicians to know what to expect from a normally operating system, and how to determine if it is operating normally or not. As Yamaha states in the front of their service manuals, they are written for technicians, and therefore some basic knowledge is assumed. This means it is not intended as a how to book for someone with no mechanical experience or aptitude. This whole thing is becoming convoluted, and distorted from my original point. Yamaha has proven in the past that they do explain what to expect from systems such as this, and the likelihood of them choosing not to disclose this info is low probability. As far as my resources, they are much more extensive on the GTS and stock Yamahas than hand built chrome moly chasis for Banshees. Sorry. RSRBOB
ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
My point was, that Yamaha in the past, in several areas, has shown a history of explaining what to expect a normal system to do. It was suggested that for any one of a number of reasons, Yamaha "knew" about this cycling, and chose not to mention it. My contention is that is not the way they operate. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= I totally believe and understand your point about Yamaha's history of explaining these things in their literature. I can't and won't attempt to contradict you in any way on this point--I haven't seen this literature, I haven't been to any technical conferences, and I probably don't have as much exposure with Yamaha as you do. However, I still stand by what I claimed and _I think_ that you're making an assumption as to how a system operates, based _solely_ on what I claim is an incomplete description in a service manual. I haven't made any intentional attempt to distort anything you've said. Frankly, I'm getting tired of defending myself here and I wish someone would back me up or shoot me down based on FACTS, not ASSUMPTIONS. RSROB--would you be willing to hook up a light or meter or something to the +12V lead to the electric motor, such that you could monitor it while you ride and "see" this thing go through it's cycles??? Heck--even Roger Van Santen has commented about how annoying the sound is coming over his CB radio--he's confirmed that it happens! I believe they want technicians to know what to expect from a normally operating system, and how to determine if it is operating normally or not. =-=-=-=-=-=-= I wholeheartedly agree, and I still contend that there IS adequate information in the manual to troubleshoot and repair the ABS system on a GTS. Yamaha has proven in the past that they do explain what to expect from systems such as this, and the likelihood of them choosing not to disclose this info is low probability. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= You're STILL making an assumption here!! Either back me up or shoot me down, based on some tests, facts, etc.--not on an assumption. I'm done. Terry Baker
RE: Women riders (was: ABS cycles (Fluffy now)
I'm glad too. My comment was based on my experience. It was not targeted at women. My wife can outlast me in the saddle any day. She's better looking than I am too. But generally speaking, the learning curve is long and the message I meant to share is that you can get your SO, friend, relative etc. into the sport now and it will take years before they ride at your level. Theoretically, they should never ride at your level, unless you (the editorial "you", that is) stop learning and improving yourself. Henry S. Winokur '94 GTS 1000 AMA Lifer, MRF, MSF/MD MSP Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
Re: Women riders (was: ABS cycles (Fluffy now)
And then there are those of us (females) that teach MSF, put tens of thousands of miles on our bikes, and consider 400 miles a nice afternoon ride. SOO...please remember this is not a total guy list, and some of you are crossing lines!Carmon Hendrickson SLC UT. Kelly Cash wrote: Yeah Louis, the women I know who ride are: 1) underage, 2) married (to someone else) or 3) Lesbian. My secretary just bought a 250 Ninja (so she could ride with her Hubby). Bill You might be surprised to know how many woman are into motorcycling. (and how the numbers are growing) I teach a lot of MSF* classes, and there is a wide cross section of women taking the class. Sure, some are into it because of their sigificant others, but many are just a couple of friends who decided to get into it. There are even a lot who sign up on their own, with no encouragement from anyone (in fact, many have DISCOURAGING friends) I've seen straight, gay, young, old, single, attached, thin, fat, black, white women all taking the class. I see more at bike hangout places. I know grandmothers who ride Goldwings, women who ride Iron Butt endurance rides, women who drag knees better than I do. I know women who work on their own bikes, and know more about them than many guys do. I was reviewing some of the MSF* material last night with the woman who runs a local site (yes, SHE runs the site, teaches, etc.) and she told me that she no longer subscribes to 'Motorcylist' magazine. When I asked why not, she said all the articles were male biased. Things were written as: "you guys(and girls) . . ." This is not a "man's sport." And to tell the truth, I'm glad. -K *I'm in California, and I teach CMSP classes, which is our version of the MSF classes. Slightly modified MSF curriculum. == Kelly CashMain: 408-727-5497 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com ==
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
The points I have made about the operation of the ABS and Yamaha publishing it in some form are based on similar information published by Yamaha on other electrically operated components on other models. In my opinion, they are consistant as stating the operations of theses components. Three that come to mind would be the V boost on a V Max, they do not fail to mention the cycling of the V Boost system when the key is powered up, the EXUP system also cycles, and is also directly mentioned in printed format, and the power valves used on some current personal water craft engines, have a cleaning cycle where they open and close as the engine is started, or after it is shut off. All of these examples are listed in the service manuals, were covered at update seminars and published in print in the text that was distributed to the attendees (dealership technicians and service managers, generally) and as speculation, I am guessing the owners manuals as well. I did mention that as Terry presented parts of his findings, they were worthy of sales brochure material. I did not mean that his entire description should be listed, however, the feature benefit part would be worthy, and percievable as a value to potential customers. To fixate on the fact that his writings were too technical for a sales brochure is to miss my point. I clearly stated I researched the service manual, and some other information from Yamaha, on the GTS, and there is no refrence to what he says. It would be nice if the ABS did what he said, it would be even better if Yamaha said it did. RSRBOB
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
Three that come to mind would be the V boost on a V Max, they do not fail to mention the cycling of the V Boost system when the key is powered up, the EXUP system also cycles, and is also directly mentioned in printed format, and the power valves used on some current personal water craft engines, have a cleaning cycle where they open and close as the engine is started, or after it is shut off. Are all of these parts listed as being "serviceable?" If not they are then thats why the details are listed. If they are shown as replace only parts it may still be listed for diagnostic purposes. However, the ABS system is not supposed to be a serviceable item on the GTS so all the details are not listed. Like Jay I am interested in your resources. And I am not trying to flame you or hurt your credibility in anyway. But if you are working out of the same service manual we are then you have the same limited resources we do. If you have good resources I have a project I am working on using a Banshee motor in a cromemoly tube frame go-cart and could use some engineering help regarding engine mounts. :) Louis
Re: Women riders (was: ABS cycles (Fluffy now)
Yeah Louis, the women I know who ride are: 1) underage, 2) married (to someone else) or 3) Lesbian. My secretary just bought a 250 Ninja (so she could ride with her Hubby). Bill You might be surprised to know how many woman are into motorcycling. (and how the numbers are growing) I teach a lot of MSF* classes, and there is a wide cross section of women taking the class. Sure, some are into it because of their sigificant others, but many are just a couple of friends who decided to get into it. There are even a lot who sign up on their own, with no encouragement from anyone (in fact, many have DISCOURAGING friends) I've seen straight, gay, young, old, single, attached, thin, fat, black, white women all taking the class. I see more at bike hangout places. I know grandmothers who ride Goldwings, women who ride Iron Butt endurance rides, women who drag knees better than I do. I know women who work on their own bikes, and know more about them than many guys do. I was reviewing some of the MSF* material last night with the woman who runs a local site (yes, SHE runs the site, teaches, etc.) and she told me that she no longer subscribes to 'Motorcylist' magazine. When I asked why not, she said all the articles were male biased. Things were written as: "you guys(and girls) . . ." This is not a "man's sport." And to tell the truth, I'm glad. -K *I'm in California, and I teach CMSP classes, which is our version of the MSF classes. Slightly modified MSF curriculum. == Kelly CashMain: 408-727-5497 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com ==
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
Ahhh, this is what started the whole discussion. So what did you do to get rid of the whine sound coming through the CB? What gain are you adjusting? RF gain? I don't have that adjustment. Louis Roger Van Santen wrote: I'll chime in and agree that Terry is probably correct in his evaluation of how the ABS system operates. And Louis Tweed is correct about rough road (rail road tracks) activating the pump. If I have the gain adjusted too high on my CB radio, it comes through the ear phones loud and clear--and very annoying. The same thing happens when the bike is started. I would also agree that this is way too complicated for Yamaha to use as advertising fodder. FWIW my 2 cents. Roger Van Santen -Original Message- From: Baker Terry-P27739 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, April 17, 00 11:42 AM Subject: Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested) OK--I think I understand (hopefully) where the misunderstanding is. I contend that what I described is truly what the system is designed to do. BIG SNIP etc. to the hot lead on the electric motor and then go out and ride the applied at all. If I still owned a GTS, I would gladly do this. If someone else on the list performs this test and proves me wrong--I'll eat a load of crow and retract my above statements. Until that happens, I stand by my claims. . Not that it didnt happen, that it was supposed to happen, is where we differ. I still contend that it is _supposed_ to happen, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm the only one to have made such a claim and that I have _only_ my experiences with working on my own GTS to back that up. That's why I'm asking someone else out there to either back me up or shoot me down based on tests, not opinions or incomplete/vague shop manuals. As to why or why not Yamaha chose not to disclose this in the manuals or literature, I'm not sure, but the statements that you made make sense. is a note saying the graph is only representative of the idea (loosely paraphrased) of the ingnition curve. I say that they've taken the same approach to their description of the ABS system in the shop manual--it's intentionally incomplete, but does offer enough material to describe the system and that's it. I claim that it is, based _only_ on my own experience (sample of 1) and I'll have to leave it at that until someone else makes an effort to re-create my findings. A meter or light bulb hooked up to the hot lead of the electric motor will do this. Anyone willing to step up?? The blood-pumping thing is fun, isn't it RSRBOB?? Game ON!! Terry Baker
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
In a message dated 4/17/00 11:41:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jay, you have no idea what I am supposed to know, and what I am not supposed to know. You are not the only one with resources... State your opinion, but, do not tell me what I am not supposed to know.. people that know me, know my resources. A little personal Bob, but if you've got great "resource" tell us what it is. I'm not doubting technical expertise, I'm just saying I know how the vehicle business works after 25 years experience with virtually all car and bike manufacturers doing business in the U.S. And all I commented about was the publication end of the spectrum which is my expertise. You can argue back and forth with Terry about what the ABS system does; but I'll stand by my comments about what's like to be published. -Jay
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
To get rid of the whine. Leave the wife at home! On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Louis Tweed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ahhh, this is what started the whole discussion. So what did you do to get rid of the whine sound coming through the CB? What gain are you adjusting? RF gain? I don't have that adjustment. Louis Roger Van Santen wrote: I'll chime in and agree that Terry is probably correct in his evaluation of how the ABS system operates. And Louis Tweed is correct about rough road (rail road tracks) activating the pump. If I have the gain adjusted too high on my CB radio, it comes through the ear phones loud and clear--and very annoying. The same thing happens when the bike is started. I would also agree that this is way too complicated for Yamaha to use as advertising fodder. FWIW my 2 cents. Roger Van Santen -Original Message- From: Baker Terry-P27739 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, April 17, 00 11:42 AM Subject: Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested) OK--I think I understand (hopefully) where the misunderstanding is. I contend that what I described is truly what the system is designed to do. BIG SNIP etc. to the hot lead on the electric motor and then go out and ride the applied at all. If I still owned a GTS, I would gladly do this. If someone else on the list performs this test and proves me wrong--I'll eat a load of crow and retract my above statements. Until that happens, I stand by my claims. . Not that it didnt happen, that it was supposed to happen, is where we differ. I still contend that it is _supposed_ to happen, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm the only one to have made such a claim and that I have _only_ my experiences with working on my own GTS to back that up. That's why I'm asking someone else out there to either back me up or shoot me down based on tests, not opinions or incomplete/vague shop manuals. As to why or why not Yamaha chose not to disclose this in the manuals or literature, I'm not sure, but the statements that you made make sense. is a note saying the graph is only representative of the idea (loosely paraphrased) of the ingnition curve. I say that they've taken the same approach to their description of the ABS system in the shop manual--it's intentionally incomplete, but does offer enough material to describe the system and that's it. I claim that it is, based _only_ on my own experience (sample of 1) and I'll have to leave it at that until someone else makes an effort to re-create my findings. A meter or light bulb hooked up to the hot lead of the electric motor will do this. Anyone willing to step up?? The blood-pumping thing is fun, isn't it RSRBOB?? Game ON!! Terry Baker Eugene Boyle Heriot-Watt University
Re: ABS cycles (Fluffy now)
Hah ha ha, Don't have a wife and yes I leave the girlfriend at her apartment when I go for rides. Actually she doesn't whine when she does ride with me, but I would rather be riding alone. If I could just find a girlfriend who rides her own bike I would be OK. Anyone else with these sentiments? Eugene Boyle wrote: To get rid of the whine. Leave the wife at home! On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Louis Tweed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
RE: ABS cycles (Fluffy now)
Nope...wife won't let me have a girlfriend. :^) -Original Message- From: Louis Tweed [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 11:06 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: ABS cycles (Fluffy now) Hah ha ha, Don't have a wife and yes I leave the girlfriend at her apartment when I go for rides. Actually she doesn't whine when she does ride with me, but I would rather be riding alone. If I could just find a girlfriend who rides her own bike I would be OK. Anyone else with these sentiments? Eugene Boyle wrote: To get rid of the whine. Leave the wife at home! On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Louis Tweed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
RE: ABS cycles (Fluffy now)
rather be riding alone. If I could just find a girlfriend who rides her own bike I would be OK. Anyone else with these sentiments? Having a wife/girlfriend that rides her own bike is not all it's cracked up to be. Imagine, you being a competent rider with advanced skills... waiting for her at every stop sign. Steve with experience Confidential e-mail for addressee only
Re: ABS cycles (Fluffy now)
In your message dated: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:30:51 EDT, your pithy ruminations on RE: ABS cycles (Fluffy now) were: = rather be riding alone. If I could just find a girlfriend who rides her = own bike I = would be OK. Anyone else with these sentiments? = = Having a wife/girlfriend that rides her own bike is not all it's cracked up = to be. Imagine, you being a competent rider with advanced skills... waiting = for her at every stop sign. Imagine, her annoyance at having to wait for you. = = Steve with experience Mark, who knows plenty of really good female riders - Mark BergmanBiker, Rock Climber, Unix mechanic, IATSE #1 Stagehand '94 Yamaha GTS1000A [EMAIL PROTECTED] I want a newsgroup with a infinite S/N ratio! Now taking CFV on: rec.motorcycles.stagehands.pet-bird-owners.pinballers.unix-supporters 5+ So Far--Want to join? Check out: http://www.panix.com/~bergman --
Re: ABS cycles (Fluffy now)
I have thought of that, not sure if it is any different than when I ride with guys on Goldwings. ehh? Louis "Giuntoli, Steve" wrote: rather be riding alone. If I could just find a girlfriend who rides her own bike I would be OK. Anyone else with these sentiments? Having a wife/girlfriend that rides her own bike is not all it's cracked up to be. Imagine, you being a competent rider with advanced skills... waiting for her at every stop sign. Steve with experience Confidential e-mail for addressee only
Re: ABS cycles --now FLUFF
I've already thought of that. With 104K on the odo, she's only ridden with me once on the GTS. So the whine comes from somewhere else. Roger -Original Message- From: Eugene Boyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, April 18, 00 7:42 AM Subject: Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested) To get rid of the whine. Leave the wife at home! On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Louis Tweed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ahhh, this is what started the whole discussion. So what did you do to get rid of the whine sound coming through the CB? What gain are you adjusting? RF gain? I don't have that adjustment. Louis Roger Van Santen wrote: I'll chime in and agree that Terry is probably correct in his evaluation of how the ABS system operates. And Louis Tweed is correct about rough road (rail road tracks) activating the pump. If I have the gain adjusted too high on my CB radio, it comes through the ear phones loud and clear--and very annoying. The same thing happens when the bike is started. I would also agree that this is way too complicated for Yamaha to use as advertising fodder. FWIW my 2 cents. Roger Van Santen -Original Message- From: Baker Terry-P27739 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, April 17, 00 11:42 AM Subject: Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested) OK--I think I understand (hopefully) where the misunderstanding is. I contend that what I described is truly what the system is designed to do. BIG SNIP etc. to the hot lead on the electric motor and then go out and ride the applied at all. If I still owned a GTS, I would gladly do this. If someone else on the list performs this test and proves me wrong--I'll eat a load of crow and retract my above statements. Until that happens, I stand by my claims. . Not that it didnt happen, that it was supposed to happen, is where we differ. I still contend that it is _supposed_ to happen, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm the only one to have made such a claim and that I have _only_ my experiences with working on my own GTS to back that up. That's why I'm asking someone else out there to either back me up or shoot me down based on tests, not opinions or incomplete/vague shop manuals. As to why or why not Yamaha chose not to disclose this in the manuals or literature, I'm not sure, but the statements that you made make sense. is a note saying the graph is only representative of the idea (loosely paraphrased) of the ingnition curve. I say that they've taken the same approach to their description of the ABS system in the shop manual--it's intentionally incomplete, but does offer enough material to describe the system and that's it. I claim that it is, based _only_ on my own experience (sample of 1) and I'll have to leave it at that until someone else makes an effort to re-create my findings. A meter or light bulb hooked up to the hot lead of the electric motor will do this. Anyone willing to step up?? The blood-pumping thing is fun, isn't it RSRBOB?? Game ON!! Terry Baker Eugene Boyle Heriot-Watt University
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
OK--I think I understand (hopefully) where the misunderstanding is. I contend that what I described is truly what the system is designed to do. In fact, a thorough study of the operation/purpose of the failsafe relay confirms this whole point. What I think the misunderstanding is (I hope) is that with a normal, _undamaged_ ABS system, this whole process is completely transparent to the rider and will never be perceived, unless you can physically hear the electric motor start up. Nothing will be felt at the brake lever or pedal until the actual "dump" process is initiated. This is what the "check valves" described loosely in the shop manual accomplish. One of the check valves is what was damaged in my "rebuilt" HU from England, allowing me to feel this process taking place. Anything that can be sold as advanced, new or better technology is spun in the sales force as a feature. What you described would be tremendous in that department. If that feature occured as a result of other engineering, it is still touted as a feature. Agreed, as long as management buys into it. Jay makes a good point about marketing/manuals/etc. BTW, there is enough diagnosis information in the shop manual to effect necessary repairs. There is a thorough test procedure for the failsafe relay--using this procedure, in combination with what I experienced, is how I developed the statements that I made. I really wish I had my manual with me, but I don't. Running without the manual, to my best recollection, here's what the system does: 1) Computer determines lockup is likely or occurring. 2) Computer sends command to close contacts in failsafe relay (this directly causes steps 3 and 4). 3) Electric motor starts (this only operates the fluid return pumps) 4) +12V is made _available_ to the dump solenoids. 5) If needed, the computer then grounds the solenoid to "dump" excess fluid pressure to the buffer chamber. (This is where there is an error in the block diagram in the shop manual--the "spool" should be shifted to the right, compressing the spring.) 6) When the solenoids close, the orifice and spring against the "spool" linearly re-apply brake pressure to the caliper. 7) If lockup occurs again, steps 5 6 are repeated until the brakes are released or you come to a stop, crash, etc. 8) During steps 5,6,7, fluid diverted to the buffer chamber is returned to the master cylinder by the already running electric motor (step 3) and reciprocating pumps. 9) When brakes are released or the bike is stopped, the motor and reciprocating return pumps continue operating for a short time (~1 second or so) to ensure that the buffer chambers are emptied and all the fluid is returned to the master cylinder. 10) Computer decides the whole episode is over and opens the contacts in the failsafe relay, shutting off the electric motor and removing +12V from the solenoids. The only events you will _ever_ feel at the lever or pedal is steps 5-8. The computer cannot cause anything to happen with the HU _until_ the failsafe relay is closed. I contend that the failsafe relay closes and prepares the system for operation much more frequently than most people are aware of. I also realize that I'm the first person on this list to make such a claim and that you doubt that it happens. That's okay. I would love it if somebody out there would hook up a meter or light bulb, etc. to the hot lead on the electric motor and then go out and ride the bike. I contend that the light bulb will come on during sharp deceleration (snapping throttle closed in a lower gear, for example)--even if the brakes aren't applied at all. If I still owned a GTS, I would gladly do this. If someone else on the list performs this test and proves me wrong--I'll eat a load of crow and retract my above statements. Until that happens, I stand by my claims. My analogy with the injector and my claim that the closing of the failsafe relay is that these events are truly imperceptible to the operator, but that they still take place. The analogy with the injector may be weak, but that was the point I was trying to make. Not that it didnt happen, that it was supposed to happen, is where we differ. I still contend that it is _supposed_ to happen, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm the only one to have made such a claim and that I have _only_ my experiences with working on my own GTS to back that up. That's why I'm asking someone else out there to either back me up or shoot me down based on tests, not opinions or incomplete/vague shop manuals. As to why or why not Yamaha chose not to disclose this in the manuals or literature, I'm not sure, but the statements that you made make sense. any Yamaha graph of an ignition curve, two things you notice. First, there is no numbers to equate any discernable values to the curve, rendering it useless for anyone desiring to copy it or improve upon it, and seco
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
In a message dated 4/15/00 1:11:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: He wasn't supposed to know about it, Bob and neither are you. Jay, you have no idea what I am supposed to know, and what I am not supposed to know. You are not the only one with resources... State your opinion, but, do not tell me what I am not supposed to know.. people that know me, know my resources.
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
I'll chime in and agree that Terry is probably correct in his evaluation of how the ABS system operates. And Louis Tweed is correct about rough road (rail road tracks) activating the pump. If I have the gain adjusted too high on my CB radio, it comes through the ear phones loud and clear--and very annoying. The same thing happens when the bike is started. I would also agree that this is way too complicated for Yamaha to use as advertising fodder. FWIW my 2 cents. Roger Van Santen -Original Message- From: Baker Terry-P27739 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, April 17, 00 11:42 AM Subject: Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested) OK--I think I understand (hopefully) where the misunderstanding is. I contend that what I described is truly what the system is designed to do. BIG SNIP etc. to the hot lead on the electric motor and then go out and ride the applied at all. If I still owned a GTS, I would gladly do this. If someone else on the list performs this test and proves me wrong--I'll eat a load of crow and retract my above statements. Until that happens, I stand by my claims. . Not that it didnt happen, that it was supposed to happen, is where we differ. I still contend that it is _supposed_ to happen, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm the only one to have made such a claim and that I have _only_ my experiences with working on my own GTS to back that up. That's why I'm asking someone else out there to either back me up or shoot me down based on tests, not opinions or incomplete/vague shop manuals. As to why or why not Yamaha chose not to disclose this in the manuals or literature, I'm not sure, but the statements that you made make sense. is a note saying the graph is only representative of the idea (loosely paraphrased) of the ingnition curve. I say that they've taken the same approach to their description of the ABS system in the shop manual--it's intentionally incomplete, but does offer enough material to describe the system and that's it. I claim that it is, based _only_ on my own experience (sample of 1) and I'll have to leave it at that until someone else makes an effort to re-create my findings. A meter or light bulb hooked up to the hot lead of the electric motor will do this. Anyone willing to step up?? The blood-pumping thing is fun, isn't it RSRBOB?? Game ON!! Terry Baker
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
I am not puzzled by your findings. I do not feel what you found is inherent to the design. I think that Terry has given the only explanation yet as to why the ABS cycles on a bumpy road. I can tell you that the pump "spins up" occasionaly on bumpy roads. The pump also spins when the bike is first started. Neither instance causes any loss of pressure on the brake lever so the ABS isn't actually cycling but the pump is spinning. I don't know if Yamaha designed this cycling into the ABS system or if it is an product of the design. I would tend to think it was an aftereffect because of the bumpy road spawning an error condition in the ABS system. Louis P.S. I am not an engineer, somewhat of an amature mechanic, and a GTS entusiast.
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
Terry, What you have experienced from improper assembly does not make it a design feature. What you describe would be a feature, a sales feature, that, certainly would be worth mentioning, if it exisited. It would also stand to reason that if this were supposed to happen, Yamaha has a responsibility to disclose how to diagnose and repair the condition if it did not exist. The components you described are indeed in the system, granted, but, your conclusions are not supportted. I also understand Yamaha does not go into detail about operation to the finite degree, which is by design. Yamaha, in my opinion, is a conservative company, and is sensitive to customer safety, and their own liability. If they do not want critical complex components disassembled, they niether offer them avaible as individual pieces, or offer information on how to service or repair them. I am guessing this is a corporate decision not made with out the assistance of lawyers. Further, not everyone that is passionate about their motorcycle is qualified to work on it, and not everyone understands the difference between the two, esp the passionate unqualified ones. Some know their limtis, and wisely never cross them, others have been known to just jump right in. Certainly, I respect your experience and insight. However, my understanding of how and why a corporation does what it does and does not do, will not allow me to believe you have uncovered something such as this. I agree, further discussion can continue off list, I felt it important to respond to your explanation on list, for the benefit of those that are interested. RSRBOB
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
Terry, What you have experienced from improper assembly does not make it a design feature. What you describe would be a feature, a sales feature, that, certainly would be worth mentioning, if it exisited. =-=-=-=-=-=-= I don't necessarily see the real process of what happens as a "feature" as long as it happens. A good analogy is that not many people are the least bit concerned about the actual process of opening a fuel injector pintle that takes place over a couple of microseconds. In reality--the computer typically sends a larger current during initial opening to speed up the process and force the injector open, then the current is reduced to a lower level that will maintain the injector opening until the decision is made to close the injector. See http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM1949.html for a justification for this statement. To the common consumer, or even the most seasoned mechanic, it's a complete "don't care"--to the design engineer, it's a way to save power (heat) in the electronics, increasing reliability. Granted, I only came across the information on ABS cycling by coincidence, but I feel confident that I understand what I experienced. I'm sure that there is more, but I don't think Yamaha is going to share their software flow diagrams any time soon. Basically, there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than you will EVER find in a shop manual. I think you actually concur with this, if I interpret your response correctly. A consumer or mechanic just doesn't need to know the gory details--they need to know that it works, and if it doesn't, how to diagnose it and replace the "block" with a new one that does. Certainly, I respect your experience and insight. However, my understanding of how and why a corporation does what it does and does not do, will not allow me to believe you have uncovered something such as this. I'm curious as to what exactly it is that I've uncovered that you find so puzzling--is it the pre-emptive "getting things ready" for ABS operation or something else?? I guess I just find your overall response somewhat confusing--like I've exposed something that just doesn't make sense, or that would put Yamaha in a position to have to defend themselves for the idiotic things they've done, or what. Please clarify. BTW--I enjoy the banter--the list has been too quiet lately and this thread is even GTS related (for the most part.) Terry Baker
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
In a message dated 4/14/00 2:25:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks for keeping us aware of Yamaha's perspectives. -K Thanks Kelly, however, in fairness to Yamaha, those were my observations, not theirs, which they would be happy to point out. RSRBOB
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
In a message dated 4/14/00 3:58:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't necessarily see the real process of what happens as a "feature" as long as it happens. SNIP Anything that can be sold as advanced, new or better technology is spun in the sales force as a feature. What you described would be tremendous in that department. If that feature occured as a result of other engineering, it is still touted as a feature. A good analogy is that not many people are the least bit concerned about the actual process of opening a fuel injector pintle that takes place over a couple of microseconds. In reality--the computer typically sends a larger current during initial opening to speed up the process and force the injector open, then the current is reduced to a lower level that will maintain the injector opening until the decision is made to close the injector. See http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM1949.html for a justification for this statement. To the common consumer, or even the most seasoned mechanic, it's a complete "don't care"--to the design engineer, it's a way to save power (heat) in the electronics, increasing reliability. SNIP I disagree with your analogy. You describe something that is imperceptible to the consumer in your analogy, however, in your ABS conclusion, it is noticable, and could be concieved as advantageous. Something so minute as varying voltages on individual injectors would be irrellevant to any one other than the designer, I presume, unless you can use a scope to diagnose a problem with them. What you described in your experience would be something someone could feel it doing or not doing, therefore, a consumer would be aware there is a problem, and, would expect a dealer to know that it does do it, and be able to fix it. That is the difference, to me. Granted, I only came across the information on ABS cycling by coincidence, but I feel confident that I understand what I experienced. SNIP I did not disagree you experienced what you described. I took exception to you finding something as significant as that, and being the first and only one to know about it. Not that it didnt happen, that it was supposed to happen, is where we differ. I'm sure that there is more, but I don't think Yamaha is going to share their software flow diagrams any time soon. Basically, there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than you will EVER find in a shop manual. SNIP Correct, there is a very real thing called proprietary information. Look at any Yamaha graph of an ignition curve, two things you notice. First, there is no numbers to equate any discernable values to the curve, rendering it useless for anyone desiring to copy it or improve upon it, and second, there is a note saying the graph is only representative of the idea (loosely paraphrased) of the ingnition curve. Certainly, I respect your experience and insight. However, my understanding of how and why a corporation does what it does and does not do, will not allow me to believe you have uncovered something such as this. I'm curious as to what exactly it is that I've uncovered that you find so puzzling SNIP I am not puzzled by your findings. I do not feel what you found is inherent to the design. BTW--I enjoy the banter--the list has been too quiet lately and this thread is even GTS related (for the most part.) Terry Baker Agreed, we have their blood pumping again! RSRBOB
Re: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
In a message dated 04/14/2000 7:21:01 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anything that can be sold as advanced, new or better technology is spun in the sales force as a feature. Lemme tell ya as a guy on the inside of sales brochure writing, that ain't so. Before it can be sold as a "feature" in the brochure, the write has to understand it. And I assure you there is not a single soul working or who has ever worked as a copy writer who would ever try to take Mr. Baker's excellent and lengthy explanation and turn it into ad copy. No way, no how. When saying something like, "It's got ABS so the wheels won't lock and you won't crash as much," already needs so many legal footnotes, that's gonna be it. If that. There's not a bike out there that doesn't have several hundred technically cool things that will never be found in a brochure, ad or even in a lengthy magazine article. If the ABS "guesses" the wheels might lock up in the way Terry described, that's interesting and impressive. It's not a feature, but a technical detail that I can't imagine Yamaha would describe in any literature that could ever find it's way to a dealership, much less a consumer. It would be buried in an internal engineering document and being at a dealership would never get you close to learning about such proprietary technical functions of a non-serviceable part. In a message dated 04/14/2000 7:21:01 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I took exception to you finding something as significant as that, and being the first and only one to know about it. He wasn't supposed to know about it, Bob and neither are you. (And in the overall scheme of things, I would take issue with it being that significant.) Just like we all weren't supposed to know our ABS systems were failing. And they still won't tell us why. Or how often. Or how many. And that's something they should be obligated to do. Of course, with Terry available to explain such technical details, maybe I'll go pitch Yamaha to do their GTS1000 advertising account. Oh yeah, they don't sell 'em any more. Never mind. -Jay
RE: ABS cycles (lengthy and technical--delete if not interested)
If I haven't thoroughly confused, irritated, or offended you, and you want to chat some more about this, we can take it offline, unless if the list likes all of this technical drivel. This whole process was quite an Terry: Please keep this ON LIST. I find it fascinating to read, even though the chances of my ever attempting to rebuilt that little sucker is low...unless I have a defective one to play with. Henry S. Winokur '94 GTS 1000 AMA Lifer, MRF, MSF/MD MSP Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
RE: ABS cycles?
Does the HU cycle on its own at any regular (or irregular) intervals.. like startup..or quick deceleration (I think someone said so), or only when wheel lockup occurs during the test? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Louis Tweed Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 10:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Wingrack mods/CB setup snip (I am getting RF interference from the ABS pump when it cycles), CB mounting options, etc.. Louis stuff - we even carry a cooler. We made mods to our wingrack and now have a great place to lock our helmets and jackets when we stop.
RE: ABS brakes and an accident....
This is very interesting and not really that surprising. I bet it's not the only instance. I suspect this sort of thing was Yamaha's biggest fear on this ABS failure issue. Joe. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 10:52 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: ABS brakes and an accident Guys, We've talked about "what if" ABS failure causes an accident. Well, it seems it may have. The following is a letter received by Motorcycle Consumer News in response to the news article I did about the brake issue. (I emailed the guy and suggested he contact this group and the NHTSA. I hope he follows through.): Hi, I was wondering if you new of some type of article or press release from Yamaha regarding the premature failure of anti-lock brakes on the GTS from 1993 on up? It may even been some type of a recall. If you know who or where I can get this article I would greatly appreciated. This past summer I had a terrible accident due to my anti-lock brakes locking up. Now 8 months later I hear this news floating around. Once again, thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Re: ABS brakes and an accident....
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --BB2C978DEA53A99AD3B116A1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Again Jay, Please don't reprint that info I sent you, at least not the specifics. Thanks. --BB2C978DEA53A99AD3B116A1 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Patterson, Carlos Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Carlos Patterson n: Patterson;Carlos org:Periphonics - A Nortel Networks Company adr:4000 Veterans Memorial Highway;;;Bohemia;New York;11716-0493;U.S.A email;internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] title: Senior Technical Support Specialist tel;work: 516-468-9234 tel;fax:516-737-8503 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version:2.1 end:vcard --BB2C978DEA53A99AD3B116A1--
ABS brakes and an accident....
Guys, We've talked about "what if" ABS failure causes an accident. Well, it seems it may have. The following is a letter received by Motorcycle Consumer News in response to the news article I did about the brake issue. (I emailed the guy and suggested he contact this group and the NHTSA. I hope he follows through.): Hi, I was wondering if you new of some type of article or press release from Yamaha regarding the premature failure of anti-lock brakes on the GTS from 1993 on up? It may even been some type of a recall. If you know who or where I can get this article I would greatly appreciated. This past summer I had a terrible accident due to my anti-lock brakes locking up. Now 8 months later I hear this news floating around. Once again, thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Re: abs and dot 4 fluids
Once a year per vehicle you silly guyth :-)) #0 SHAWN PEARSALL wrote: I thought it first Kev.but my kids where with me watching cartoons.pure thoughts.pure thoughts.. Sorry to hear ...it's only once a yearGeorge Dear #2 __ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
Re: abs and dot 4 fluids
Jim, brake fluid deteriorates quickly due to its water attraction and/or visa versa so changing front, back clutch fluid was the right thing to do. George the once a year man [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey guys, I recevied my speedbleeders yesterday and changed the rear fluid last night. Tested the bike, brakes work perfectly. Saw all the flak from Yamaha last night. Can't believe some guys are still in business. The real reason I'm writing is that you should go ahead and change the front fluid as well. Mine was dark just like the rear. Then I thought of the clutch, changed it, and it came out black!!! The inside of the resevouir had a coating of black soot. Anybody have any ideas what caused this discoloration? Thanks for the input, Jim Hoetker in Louisville KY '93 24500 miles __ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
RE: abs and dot 4 fluids
Nope, nope..not gonna touch it! :^) Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC AMA #609423 // [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/~raddboy Y2K Kawasaki ZRX1100 // '93 Yamaha GTS1000 -Original Message- From: George Paramithas [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 6:52 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: abs and dot 4 fluids George the once a year man
Re: abs and dot 4 fluids
I thought it first Kev.but my kids where with me watching cartoons.pure thoughts.pure thoughts.. Sorry to hear ...it's only once a yearGeorge Dear #2
Re: abs
Even my shop said the labor was covered and that your dealer sounded like he was "double dipping" Shawn P
abs and dot 4 fluids
Hey guys, I recevied my speedbleeders yesterday and changed the rear fluid last night. Tested the bike, brakes work perfectly. Saw all the flak from Yamaha last night. Can't believe some guys are still in business. The real reason I'm writing is that you should go ahead and change the front fluid as well. Mine was dark just like the rear. Then I thought of the clutch, changed it, and it came out black!!! The inside of the resevouir had a coating of black soot. Anybody have any ideas what caused this discoloration? Thanks for the input, Jim Hoetker in Louisville KY '93 24500 miles
Re: abs
was advised that the Yamaha district office approved replacement of the HU but that I was going to have to pay for labor. I gave him Jordan Cavanaugh's number as I did not believe I should be responsible for the labor. They were going to tt him and let me know what happens. Did anyone else have to pay for labor on this since talking to Cavanaugh? How much should the labor be if I have to pay? Thanks. That's Bullsh... uh, Baloney. I just had my pump replaced. Completely free parts, completely free labor. No whining, no arguing, no problems. Just "Yamaha said they'd take care of it? We'll confirm it and get back to you." Then "Yup, they said so, we fixed it, it's done, come get it. Thank you!" -K == Kelly CashMain: 408-727-5497 Solid Data Systems FAX: 408-727-5496 2945 Oakmead Village Court [EMAIL PROTECTED] Santa Clara, CA 95051 www.soliddata.com ==
ABS test
After reading up on all the info about the rear ABS problem it was a nice day to try it out. Based on speeds not over 30 mph. On several tries under close to the same conditions. Rear brake was applied deliberately to try a lock up. What happened was there was a noticeable kick back on the pedal. Felt like a tap than any type of condition to shake foot off pedal or cause any major distraction. This condition would repeat at regular intervals and decrease as the speed of bike dropped. At a point of going under 10 mph the tapping faded away. I did notice on several times that the tire did slid a wee bit but there was some fine gravel. But this occurred at about the point the bike was nearly stopped. This was done on residential streets as not to get rear ended on a highway. This is also my first ABS bike. And I did apply brakes as close as done in an advance rider course to apply full rear brake till it locked up and hold till the bike stopped. I believe that my system is working OK. I hope it matches others persons conditions that knows that their system is fully functional. The front bike was not tried in this manner. One thing at a time. That may be done later. There was no ABS warning light. If it was I didn't see it or it was washed out by the bright sun light. Hope this helps those in need of information. Ken Swartz
Re: ABS Failure (fwd)
Bob, Something else is wrong. If the HU is not functioning, putting a new one on fixes it. Period. Possibly, they are putting a HU on it when something else is going on. E mail me off list and I will see if I can help. RSRBOB
RE: ABS Failure (fwd)
Bob, In my case the fluid was bled about four times now and the problem still reappears. The second (or third) time we completely flushed the system by running about a half a can of fluid through during the bleed. This flush did seem to improve the problem in the sense that it has reappeared more slowly since. Eric -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 12:10 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject:Re: ABS Failure (fwd) A much higher probability is that air was trapped in the system somewhere, and moved and collected in one spot in enough concentration to effect braking. How many times has this happened? I am guessing improper bleeding at some point, maybe a fluid change?
RE: ABS failure question
The real question I have is, does the ABS fail in the 'no ABS' mode or does it go to a lockup situation? BIG DIFFERENCE!! Perhaps I'm stupid, but please explain the difference. Seems to me if you have ABS and it doesn't work, then you effectively have no ABS, which could get you into a situation where you can lock up the brakes. A big part of the problem w/ the GTS ABS is that the indicator doesn't come on and let you know that the system has failed and the only way you find out is by testing it under controlled conditions or finding out that it doesn't work when you actually need it. Personally I prefer to find these things out in test situations, not in real time. Henry S. Winokur '94 GTS 1000 AMA Lifer, MRF, MSF/MD MSP Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
RE: ABS Failure (fwd)
Eric; I have had the same problem with my 93 since new. I have had the HPU replaced under warranty about a year ago and it still has the same problem. I dont know what the fix would be and dont have confidence in any Yamaha mechanic to figure it out. Why don't you contact Yamaha and tell them directly. Perhaps a letter to the president of the company would get things going from the correct end...or you could call that Jason fellow that Joe Loss was in contact with? Henry S. Winokur '94 GTS 1000 AMA Lifer, MRF, MSF/MD MSP Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
Re: ABS Failure (fwd)
In a message dated 3/4/2000 7:35:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The second (or third) time we completely flushed the system by running about a half a can of fluid through during the bleed. Eric, This is about how much I have to bleed mine each time to get all of the air out. I usually get more are out of one side of the caliper than the other. The system takes in air so slowly that you dont realize that it is getting bad until suddenly you have very little or no rear brake. Bob J
ABS Failure (fwd)
Hey, This fellow needs info on the ABS problems/solutions. Could a kind soul fill him in? Thanks, Mike -- Michael Weaver (706)542-6468 [EMAIL PROTECTED] UCNS Network Specialist LAN Support Group University of Georgia, Athens Ga. )O( Public PGP key: http://www.arches.uga.edu/~weaver/pgp.html -- Forwarded message -- Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 13:52:49 -0500 From: Shane Sanford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ABS Failure What information could you give me (if any) about premature ABS failure on the GTS 1000. My ABS failed this year along with a friend of mines His bike is scheduled to go in the shop Monday morning 3/6/00. Both bikes have approx 25-35k miles on the odometer. Any help would be appreciated no indication of a problem from the indicator light on the dash.. just total wheel lock-up ! Thanks, Shane Sanford (1993 GTS 1000 -- serial # 202)
RE: ABS Failure (fwd)
What is/are the symptom(s) of the failure other that total wheel lock-up? I have been having a problem with my 93 that my local shop can not identify. The problem is that over a period of several months the rear brake fades away to nothing (pedal to the ground without slowing the bike). We found that there is air in the hydraulic system. The curious thing is that there are no obvious leaks and the fluid level does not drop. Air just gets in (like magic). After bleeding the line, everything seems normal. The problem progressively reappears over next several months. I almost never use the rear brake but when I do it would be nice to have it there. I have not tested for the total failure (lock-up) but will do so once the weather clears (it seems to rain all year here in Portland). Eric Olbricht '93 GTS #419 -Original Message- From: Michael Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 3:11 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject:ABS Failure (fwd) Hey, This fellow needs info on the ABS problems/solutions. Could a kind soul fill him in? Thanks, Mike -- Michael Weaver (706)542-6468 [EMAIL PROTECTED] UCNS Network Specialist LAN Support Group University of Georgia, Athens Ga. )O( Public PGP key: http://www.arches.uga.edu/~weaver/pgp.html -- Forwarded message -- Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 13:52:49 -0500 From: Shane Sanford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ABS Failure What information could you give me (if any) about premature ABS failure on the GTS 1000. My ABS failed this year along with a friend of mines His bike is scheduled to go in the shop Monday morning 3/6/00. Both bikes have approx 25-35k miles on the odometer. Any help would be appreciated no indication of a problem from the indicator light on the dash.. just total wheel lock-up ! Thanks, Shane Sanford (1993 GTS 1000 -- serial # 202)
abs failure question
Hey guys, I can't believe all the flak over land use. I think everybody wants to save it and everybody wants to use it, all at the same time. I do know that when we used to race enduros and hare scrambles, we could really tear the place up, but it was fun. The real question I have is, does the abs fail in the 'no abs' mode or does it go to a lockup situation? BIG DIFFERENCE!! After reading all your messages still not sure, but I have ordered a set of speedbleeders and will procede to flush to crap out of the system ASAP. Also noticed some of you talking about going to Deals gap around April 15. Might be able to make it myself, could bring a friend who got a 0 miles '93 GTS last summer. He showed up at my house with 99 m. on the bike. Excellent. Get out and enjoy the weather this weekend. JIM HOETKER
Re: ABS Failure (fwd)
Eric; I have had the same problem with my 93 since new. I have had the HPU replaced under warranty about a year ago and it still has the same problem. I dont know what the fix would be and dont have confidence in any Yamaha mechanic to figure it out. Bob
RE: Help! (ABS)
The dealer did keep mine when replaced in May '99 and said that Yamaha wanted it back. Bob B. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 2:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Help! (ABS) Actually, Yamaha requires all dealers to hold all parts replaced under warranty or CR for a period of 90 days. If a dealer returned the parts to you that they replaced under CR, they COULD be charged back for them if Yamaha were to call for them in that 90 day period. I heard they were wanting them back to investigate the failures.
RE: Help! (ABS)
My dealer said the same thing. Joe. SNIP... Actually, Yamaha requires all dealers to hold all parts replaced under warranty or CR for a period of 90 days. If a dealer returned the parts to you that they replaced under CR, they COULD be charged back for them if Yamaha were to call for them in that 90 day period. I heard they were wanting them back to investigate the failures.
RE: ABS Light Blinking
No, not exactly, it will check that the wheel spin sensors are working though. Best two test are shorting the wires in the test plug in the tail section and running the ABS diag test which pumps both the front and rear brakes while you hold them (ps this will run down the battery if you do it a few times). If it's not strong you may have a H.U. problem. Also find a nice flat straight road and get going a bit over 20mph and slam the rear brake. You should feel the rear pedal pulse quite a bit. If it doesn't and locks up you have a H.U. problem. You can also do this with the front as well, but in case it locks up you need to be ready to let off. Don't know of anyone that has had the front ABS fail to my knowledge (Joe Loss did anyone?) and based on my last service some 8-9 months since the H.U. was replaced I had the brake fluid changed and my mechanic said the rear already had started to look bad (i.e. getting water in it) where the front looked fine. Seems to me the rear is the problem and seems to be more prone to get water in the system. My mechanic is now suggesting replacing the rear brake fluid at least every 6 month or each service whichever comes first. Bob B. -Original Message- From: Rob Chapman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 12:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: ABS Light Blinking Then, is this a simple way to check whether the ABS unit is working?? Serious question. -
Re: ABS Light Blinking
Although there is an electrical test (Bob B. explained). However, I find it far easier to find a smooth, low traction surface (such as the dirt shoulder of a roadway) and simply attempt to lockup a brake at 15 - 20 mph. I don't see too much risk in this for most riders, particularly with the rear (the usual culprit). In a message dated 02/28/2000 9:25:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then, is this a simple way to check whether the ABS unit is working?
Re: Harley Help! (ABS)
Shawn, After my conversation with Yamaha, it will be unfortunately necessary for you to deal with your local dealer, no matter how bad that dealer. I would recommend calling the fellow Joe Loss found to be helpful: Jordan Cavanaugh (714-761-7435) at Yamaha Customer Service. And keep us apprised of the results. Jay In a message dated 02/29/2000 6:43:26 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm stuck in a catch 22 here in good ol Rochester NY.
RE: ABS Light Blinking
There were a few reported front and rear brake failures. Mostly rear only. Joe. -Original Message- From: Burton, Bob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 7:02 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: ABS Light Blinking No, not exactly, it will check that the wheel spin sensors are working though. Best two test are shorting the wires in the test plug in the tail section and running the ABS diag test which pumps both the front and rear brakes while you hold them (ps this will run down the battery if you do it a few times). If it's not strong you may have a H.U. problem. Also find a nice flat straight road and get going a bit over 20mph and slam the rear brake. You should feel the rear pedal pulse quite a bit. If it doesn't and locks up you have a H.U. problem. You can also do this with the front as well, but in case it locks up you need to be ready to let off. Don't know of anyone that has had the front ABS fail to my knowledge (Joe Loss did anyone?) and based on my last service some 8-9 months since the H.U. was replaced I had the brake fluid changed and my mechanic said the rear already had started to look bad (i.e. getting water in it) where the front looked fine. Seems to me the rear is the problem and seems to be more prone to get water in the system. My mechanic is now suggesting replacing the rear brake fluid at least every 6 month or each service whichever comes first. Bob B. -Original Message- From: Rob Chapman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 12:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: ABS Light Blinking Then, is this a simple way to check whether the ABS unit is working?? Serious question. -
RE: Harley Help! (ABS)
In defense of the Yamaha technician, I believe the static (electronic) test was the only available one to him at the time since the roads were snow covered. You're going to have to make the bike available to him when the malfunction can properly demonstrated. Besides.stop working so hard!! Enjoy life! No one ever said on their deathbed (or in a flying minivan) "I sure wish I could have worked more hours!" :^) Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC AMA #609423 // [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/~raddboy Y2K Kawasaki ZRX1100 // '93 Yamaha GTS1000 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 10:22 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Harley Help! (ABS) Shawn, After my conversation with Yamaha, it will be unfortunately necessary for you to deal with your local dealer, no matter how bad that dealer. I would recommend calling the fellow Joe Loss found to be helpful: Jordan Cavanaugh (714-761-7435) at Yamaha Customer Service. And keep us apprised of the results. Jay In a message dated 02/29/2000 6:43:26 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm stuck in a catch 22 here in good ol Rochester NY.
RE: ABS Light Blinking
Kevin, the SB site lists either the SB8125 or the longer SB8125L speedbleeders for Yamaha. I'm inclined to go for the longer one. Do you recall if they're the right ones for the GTS. Joe. -Original Message- From: Hawkins, Kevin L, SITS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 7:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: ABS Light Blinking This is done easily with Speedbleeders! http://www.speedbleeder.com Actually, 6 months can be a little overkill but considering the cost of a new HU it's money in the bank. I'll just keep an eye on the color of the brake fluid and probably stick to once a year changes. Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC AMA #609423 // [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/~raddboy Y2K Kawasaki ZRX1100 // '93 Yamaha GTS1000 -Original Message- From: Burton, Bob [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:02 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: ABS Light Blinking My mechanic is now suggesting replacing the rear brake fluid at least every 6 month or each service whichever comes first. Bob B.
RE: ABS Light Blinking
Yes, get the SB8125L for longer nipples! Longer nipples are good! :^) I've always just called the person at Speedbleeders in the evening. He's very friendly and can tell you exactly which one is for your bike. I faxed an order once and his wife missed the "L" part! Just call him. Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC AMA #609423 // [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/~raddboy Y2K Kawasaki ZRX1100 // '93 Yamaha GTS1000 -Original Message- From: Loss, Joe [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 11:07 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: ABS Light Blinking Kevin, the SB site lists either the SB8125 or the longer SB8125L speedbleeders for Yamaha. I'm inclined to go for the longer one. Do you recall if they're the right ones for the GTS. Joe. -Original Message- From: Hawkins, Kevin L, SITS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 7:19 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: ABS Light Blinking This is done easily with Speedbleeders! http://www.speedbleeder.com Actually, 6 months can be a little overkill but considering the cost of a new HU it's money in the bank. I'll just keep an eye on the color of the brake fluid and probably stick to once a year changes. Kevin Hawkins // Greensboro, NC AMA #609423 // [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/~raddboy Y2K Kawasaki ZRX1100 // '93 Yamaha GTS1000 -Original Message- From: Burton, Bob [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:02 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: ABS Light Blinking My mechanic is now suggesting replacing the rear brake fluid at least every 6 month or each service whichever comes first. Bob B.
