Re: [h-cost] 1844 Corset Again-Busk Questions
- Original Message - From: Anne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: H-Costume List Post h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:41 AM Subject: [h-cost] 1844 Corset Again-Busk Questions Hello all! I am glad to see some discussion going again. To add to it I am still (very slowly) working on this corset. My next question for those who have made it before is about the busk. Based on the recent discussion of the split busk being invented in 1853, it seems I should use a wooden busk for this transitional corset. However, given the curve along CF, how is that going to work? Following the seam line exactly, the corset front is quite straight until just below the waist, where it suddenly curves inward ending just above my pubic bone (I hope that makes sense). Do you suppose you need a specially made curved busk? Can you short cut around this and either have the busk end before the lower curve or straighten out the seam line? Obviously that is going to change the line of the corset. The pattern indicates the busk runs entirely top to bottom--16.5 inches on me. I am concerned that if I get a busk that long that I am going to have it poking me in the pubic bone when I sit down. I already have this problem on my existing 1830s corset when I bend over to tie my shoe or cook. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated and thanks in advance! Anne -- Anne Dealy adelaideatgenevahistoricalsociety.com (be sure to change at to @) OK I know I'm replying to this a month late (but I just found some new info), but if it's the pattern I'm thinking of, http://www.originals-by-kay.com/corsetry/history/1844cors.GIF which is also reproduced in Corsets and Crinolines then the curve at the bottom is designed to make the busk act like the later 1870s-80s spoon busk. I was just reading Jean Hunisett's 'Period Costume for Stage and Screen 1800-1909' and she recommends taking a tuck on either side of the bottom of a straight busk to simulate the shaping of a spoon busk. You can change the shape of the centre front, but (depending on your figure size and shape) you might actually appreciate the spoon busk effect, I've almost finished fitting my mockup of this corset, I straightened out the centre front line but I'm actually considering changing it back to the original shape now I know what it does. As for the length of the busk being too much, there are 2 dots at the bottom of the pattern illustration which makes me think maybe they were eyelet holes to keep the bottom section of the corset together, suggesting to me that the busk doesn't go all the way to the bottom of the centre front, (although this is purely speculation) Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] bad luck!
Hi Ruth, I did use a thimble, had to do it because i was stitching trough 4 layers of silk. But it was the other hand i stuck into :-) I started to embroider with silver spangels on the new taffeta. I have drawn the embroidery to a paper, and i embroider on top of the paper. I will tear it away when finished. I emediately fell in love with a boys suit, made for the future Tzar of Russia. It is gorgeous. Made with spangels and cut silver foil. I cant make silver foil flowers- but i use a substitute. I found some filligree flowers many years ago, baught the whole lot, and now i use them for this. I put a cut glass bead in each flower center. The whole design will be very nice, only using silver and the glass beads, are nearly the same collour as the taffeta. Then the whole waistcoat is full of spots made of spangels two, and i will combine the pattern, so that i make the same embroidery on the jacket, only with darker green cut glass beads, and the same flowers and spangels. The best of it is the design with the cuffs. They are made of the same lighter fabric as the waistcoat, and it looks soo good. The cuffs are also having these spots, the jacket doesnt. Pictures later. I have not ben worried any more of the other projekt, i just put it aside.. And besides, i do have enough spare fabric, to make new cuffs. But thanks for all your suggestions to my bad luck. Troubbles are all forgotten now. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] bad luck! What a sad thing! Do you ever use a thimble, Bjarne? I never found a metal one I could stand, they made me so clumsy, and I usually wound up not using that finger at all! But now I have two thimbles I use when hand-sewing (quilting, making a multi-layered seam, attaching snaps, hooks, or buttons, etc.) thick or stubborn fabric, and both have saved me a lot of blood (I'm constantly pricking my fingers! With thin fabric I'm not using a lot of force behind the needle, but the more stubborn the fabric the worse the prick!). One is a leather thimble I got in a quilting shop--it has a reinforced tip. The other is a ring thimble one of my actresses gave me--the size of a finger-ring but with dimples to stabilize the needle. Both are very helpful, and neither interferes with feeling the cloth. This is probably old news to you, but just thought I'd mentionMaybe you can retrieve the ribbed silk project sometime. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Jun 20, 2006, at 5:36 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi, Its ben a while since i last posted here. I had almost lost all my good patience with a projekt i started. It is such a lovely ribbed silk, but its so difficult to work with. I think its the worst silk i have ever tryed. I had cut out the forepart, and the back, the sleaves, and the cuffs. I always starts to make the sleaves of a suit, as it is so easy going. I had just finished both cuffs, and was sewing the buttons on to the cuffs and sleaves, when i stuck my hands so badly and bleeded all over on the inner cuff side for the left sleave. I tryed everything, spit on it, and used earsticks with salt water, but the collour of the silk is so fragile, that it wasnt going to be saved. Then i thoaght, well thats what happens, and i started on the other sleave. You wont believe, the same thing happened to this cuff. I compleately lost my interrest in this, and gave up. The silk is interlined with a calico cotton, and it was so hard to stick into, that i often stuck myself. In the end, i shouted out loud to myself, to h... w... i. Then i rushed off to the fabric shop, and baught myself some lovely oldfashioned silk taffeta. Thank god for that, i know how to work with that. It ended up with a very opalescence shot green taffeta with shades of very pale green. This is for jacket and breeches, and a matching green in the same collour of the pale green, for waistcoat and cuffs of the jacket. It is all going to be embroidered with silver spangels and cut glass beads that looks like the old spangels made of paste. I found these cut glass in excactly same greens as the taffeta.. As for the ribbed silk projekt, it is put away, and i have stabbed it at the bottom... I had hoped to go to an event at the Gustavians in august, but now i am sure, i wont make it because i wanted to wear something new. I guess reenacting is canselled this season... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com
Re: [h-cost]Mid-1600s corset, was Re: Changes at Joann's
Just to clarify - what date are you actually talking about? To me, 1600s means 1600-1610, but a lot of people now seem to be using it to mean the 17th century in general, in which case farthingales were no longer worn by mid-century. Or was it a slip of the finger for 16th century? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20/06/2006 18:39 I will be needing to buy underpinnings materials very soon for a mid-1600's corset and farthingale. Should I use linen as the lining for the corset? Would this linen be heavy enough to use? What should I use on the outer side? I think I heard someone mention duck cloth before, but that seems awfully heavy. What should I use for the farthingale? I don't feel the need to go 100% authentic on this, especially since it won't be visable, but I do want it to breath well. Michigan summers are HOT! Natalie __ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] RE: any interest in remaindered book?
I wonder if you would mind giving the name of the british remainder dealer? There seem to be little point for me, as a European, to buy something that already is in Britain from someone in the US, risking customs fees and with more expensive shipping. /Eva Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:06:47 -0400 From: JAMES OGILVIE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] any interest in remaindered book? To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 A British remainder dealer just notified me that RECORDS OF THE WARDROBE AND HOUSEHOLD 1285-1286 , published by HMSO, has been sent to them. I have no idea whether it has much information for costumers but I thought I'd ask if there are folks interested in taking the gamble. There are 2 volumes, one with a list price of 35 pounds and one with a list price of 47 pounds. I would be selling each volume for $24 plus shipping. Their next U.S. consolidated shipping should arrive in mid-August (while we're at Pennsic). ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE: any interest in remaindered book?
I agree with Eva. Also, would you mind if I passed your mail on to the 75years group on Yahoo, as it's right in their time period? /Lena --- Eva Andersson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder if you would mind giving the name of the british remainder dealer? There seem to be little point for me, as a European, to buy something that already is in Britain from someone in the US, risking customs fees and with more expensive shipping. /Eva Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:06:47 -0400 From: JAMES OGILVIE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] any interest in remaindered book? To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 A British remainder dealer just notified me that RECORDS OF THE WARDROBE AND HOUSEHOLD 1285-1286 , published by HMSO, has been sent to them. I have no idea whether it has much information for costumers but I thought I'd ask if there are folks interested in taking the gamble. There are 2 volumes, one with a list price of 35 pounds and one with a list price of 47 pounds. I would be selling each volume for $24 plus shipping. Their next U.S. consolidated shipping should arrive in mid-August (while we're at Pennsic). ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ All new Yahoo! Mail The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] RE: Re: 1844 Corset Again-Busk Questions
I don't know if my comments will help at all, but I have a corset with a spoon busk and the front edge of that corset was straight too... It rounds around the outside of the busk, there's no real curve in the center section of the busk where the hooks and bulb-things meet. As a side note, I was disappointed to discover that the fit/shape of a corset with a spoon busk is pretty much identical to one with a straight busk. At least on my size 12 figure. (And I was using the _Corsets Crinolines_ pattern for the spoon busk corset) However, given the curve along CF, how is that going to work? Following the seam line exactly, the corset front is quite straight until just below the waist, where it suddenly curves inward ending just above my pubic bone (I hope that makes sense). Do you suppose you need a specially made curved busk? Can you short cut around this and either have the busk end before the lower curve or straighten out the seam line? Obviously that is going to change the line of the corset. The pattern indicates the busk runs entirely top to bottom--16.5 inches me. I am concerned that if I get a busk that long that I am going to have it poking me in the pubic bone when I sit down. I already have this problem on my existing 1830s corset when I bend over to tie my shoe or cook. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated and thanks in advance! My advice would be to try it with a straight busk and the curved seam first, at least in a mock up -- When I was making my S-bend corset I was amazed by how curvy the seams needed to be in order to be straight on the figure, but they were amenable to flat metal boning (rather then spiral boning). As for the length of the busk being too much, there are 2 dots at the bottom of the pattern illustration which makes me think maybe they were eyelet holes to keep the bottom section of the corset together, suggesting to me that the busk doesn't go all the way to the bottom of the centre front, (although this is purely speculation) There are many examples of Regency corsets whose busks do not go all the way up or down, and have eyelets that you tie a ribbon though to keep the busk in place... -sunny ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] New York fabric stores
I'm going to stick my neck out here and recommend TWO Fabric stores. I live in New York and I've been a costume designer since 1968. I'm one of those people who doesn't think the shopping is over until I've hit every store in the city. But here goes: BJ at 525 Seventh Avenue on the 2nd floor. BJ is almost always the place I end up buying Really Important Fabrics. Their fine linen is the finest. Their silk taffetas are the nicest. I have dealt with the owner, Mel Cohen, for thirty years and I know he will bend over backwards to help you get what you want. The store is new because the building they were in on 40th Street has been leveled. In the old store it was a crawl-and-peep-under shopping experience. The new place is set up differently and I've come to love it. Instead of looking at bolts, you now go through hanging swatches (LARGE swatches - maybe 1/2 yard), much like going through a rack of dresses at Macy's. If you want to see the bolt, they'll gladly get it out for you. This fabric is not a bargain. It's high quality stuff for a fair price. Mood at 225 West 37th, 3rd floor. This is where you may find some real bargains. I recently got a silk for $35 a yard that was $125 a yard at the Scalamandre outlet. Scalamandre had it in six colors, Mood had one. The store is huge and gets better and better. They now have wonderful silks in the home furnishings department and they've got all sorts of leather. It's funky and you're bound to have fun here. If you have time left over, go to 39th Street, between 7th and 8th Avenues and just pop in every single store. That's what I do... Martha ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Allegory of Colour
Can anyone tell me more about this? The allegory of colour, which already at the end of the thirteenth century showed slight signs of development, had now become a language comprehensible to nearly everyone, and the full-fledged dandy had now the means of proclaiming to the world his amorous adventures by the scale of colours displayed in his dress. It's a quotation from The Black Death: A Chronicle of the Plague Compiled from Contemporary Sources by Johannes Nohl. My copy was published by George, Allen Unwin Ltd., in 1961, but the book was first published in 1926. It's on page 153, where he's discussing European life after the plague. Obviously, this is an old book, and scholarship has moved on. Is the concept just one of those myths of costuming? But if it's true, what was this colour code? I'd be grateful to know more about that, but even more grateful to know if this is a reliable author, because he says many more interesting things. Linda Walton, (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] silver foil tape for Paillons?
Hi, In recreating materials found in 18th century embroidery, i thoaght i might could use this for shaped spangels or Paillons as they were called. These were cut from silver plates, and often vernished in different shining collours. I would like to try it. Does any of you know this material? Is it hard to cut out, can you use an ordinary scissors? I am in need of some cut like a flower with 5 leaves. Also how would you make the holes for sewing? I am making silver embroidery, but i am not sattisfied with those flowers i use as a substitute for Paillons, they are two dimentional, should be more flat. Greatly apreciate if any of you have tryed it! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE: any interest in remaindered book?
I am dealing with a wholesale company (minimum order $250, sale tax license required, etc.). They are affiliated with this retail merchant http://www.psbooks.co.uk/ but when I tried to search for wardrobe, nothing came up. I would think that other British retail stores that specialize in remainders would have this book in a few weeks - it has just come in to the wholesalers so it probably isn't distributed yet. (There are probably a couple other U.S. book merchants beside me that will carry it, but none of us will have them until mid-August because all the U.S. bookstore orders will be sent on a boat together to keep the shipping price within the realm of reason.) Janet I wonder if you would mind giving the name of the british remainder dealer? There seem to be little point for me, as a European, to buy something that already is in Britain from someone in the US, risking customs fees and with more expensive shipping. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] History of measuring tools
Can anyone recommend a solid book on the history and use of measuring tools in the home for things like sewing and cooking? I'm interested in the history and use of the tools rather than measurement systems per se. For the latter, BTW, there are several interesting books by Ronald Edward Zupko. Thanks, Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] silver foil tape for Paillons?
On Jun 22, 2006, at 12:16 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi, In recreating materials found in 18th century embroidery, i thoaght i might could use this for shaped spangels or Paillons as they were called. These were cut from silver plates, and often vernished in different shining collours. I would like to try it. Does any of you know this material? Is it hard to cut out, can you use an ordinary scissors? I am in need of some cut like a flower with 5 leaves. Also how would you make the holes for sewing? I am making silver embroidery, but i am not sattisfied with those flowers i use as a substitute for Paillons, they are two dimentional, should be more flat. Greatly apreciate if any of you have tryed it! I don't remember if my friend Chris is on this list -- she would give a better answer than me on her experiments with these. She has been having some success making paillons (or bezants under one of the medieval names) out of thin metal sheets sold for craft purposes. To make the shape, she uses stamps sold for stamping leather, which come in a lot of the same types of shapes that were used historically for these. You place the metal sheet on a surface that is stiff but will give a little. A thick piece of leather works very well. Then stamp the shapes using the stamps and a hammer. After that you can cut them out of the sheet using ordinary scissors (but don't use scissors you ever plan to use for fabric again!) and punch holes for sewing using a heavy needle or a small awl, again using the leather as a backing. It seems to work best if you stamp all the shapes on the metal sheet first and then cut them all out at the same time. Chris has been working mostly with brass but I think the same technique would work with silver (if you want to spend the money!) or with silver-plated brass or copper. Heather -- !! Computer crash lost recent e-mail -- please contact if I owe you mail !! [EMAIL PROTECTED] heatherrosejones.com lj:hrj ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
