[h-cost] Costume curator position
Here's a rare opening: http://chronicle.com/jobs/id.php?id=528831-01pg=e It requires significant curatorial experience, which makes sense, but good luck in finding someone with an advanced degree in costume history. I got this off a public list, so feel free to forward to lists for 19th-20th c. costume history. --Robin _ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tux, tails and vests
I think Miss Manners has covered the evolution of tails and the tuxedo--try one of her earlier etiquette books.? Tuxedos were definitely informal when first developed, so your characters should probably be wearing tails.? I think the white tie and tails had been codified by then, to include the starched front shirt and white pique waistcoat, but I could be wrong. Ann Wass -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:32 am Subject: [h-cost] Tux, tails and vests My students are designing a production of Dracula (1897) and are required to do research and designs for the costumes. There has been a lot of discussion of vest colors and appropriate coats for various occasions. I learned (Esquire Book of Men's Clothing, mostly) that the rule of thumb is white tie and vest with tails, black tie and vest with tux. A man in black tie and tails would be a servant ie butler or waiter. So my students have found a lot of research contrary to what my assumption was. I have seen pictures of white vest and black tie with tails, white vest and white tie with tuxedos, black vest and tie with tails on gentlemen who would never be mistaken for servants and all other permutations. The research they have found is secondary, meaning drawings from the period rather than actual photographs. Have I been wrong all these years? Also, it was my understanding that tuxedos were not considered proper in the presence of ladies. Tails were required for those occasions, although I do understand that this convention gradually faded away. Can someone elucidate me? Cheryl Odom College of Santa Fe ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Tux, tails and vests
My students are designing a production of Dracula (1897) and are required to do research and designs for the costumes. There has been a lot of discussion of vest colors and appropriate coats for various occasions. I learned (Esquire Book of Men's Clothing, mostly) that the rule of thumb is white tie and vest with tails, black tie and vest with tux. A man in black tie and tails would be a servant ie butler or waiter. So my students have found a lot of research contrary to what my assumption was. I have seen pictures of white vest and black tie with tails, white vest and white tie with tuxedos, black vest and tie with tails on gentlemen who would never be mistaken for servants and all other permutations. The research they have found is secondary, meaning drawings from the period rather than actual photographs. Have I been wrong all these years? Also, it was my understanding that tuxedos were not considered proper in the presence of ladies. Tails were required for those occasions, although I do understand that this convention gradually faded away. Can someone elucidate me? Cheryl Odom College of Santa Fe ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Gloves in the 18th century
When asked by a customer I was unable to answer her question, in spite of having looked at various fashion plates of the late 18th century (1770's). The one book I don't have in the Batsford series of Gloves/Shawls/Shoes/Bags is of course gloves. Can anyone tell me if ladies wore gloves when dancing - we are talking high status, without being at court. If you have written or text proof I would really appreciate a pointer in that direction, as the fashion plates are not really helpful. They show them being worn with court dress and with full dress, but I cannot find anything that says Ball dress!) Thanks for any help. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] cutting for all
Does anyone know anything about this book? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809320061/thecostumersmani Zuzana __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Where to go to in Copenhagen
On display last year at the Danish National Historical Museum, there were some lovely copes and embroidery, some tapestries, Eric of Pommerania's belt (probably actually a woman's), some nice medieval shoes and pattens and some of the Greenland finds. I do not remember seeing the gloves. The Viking and earlier parts of the collection were closed. They will reopen next year. We did not have a lot of time in Copenhagen (spent more over on Jutland) due to a foul-up on flights by AA, but we will be going back in the next couple of years (possibly next year for NESAT). Beth At 01:01 PM 10/17/2007, you wrote: Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:00:30 -0500 From: Chiara Francesca [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [h-cost] Where to go to in Copenhagen To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Ooo ... well, start here ... http://www.world66.com/europe/denmark/copenhagen/museums But if you go to Nationalmuseet, Danmarks Middelalder og Renæssance, in Copenhagen please take pictures of the gloves that are there for me!! :D If they are not on display ask if you can be allowed to see them for a researcher in the US. They found a bunch of them in the moats that were filled in. They speculate that the moats were filled in around 1625 so the gloves they found there could be from pre 1600. But I gotta see them to really date them accurately. :) Thanks! Chiara Francesca -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hanna Zickermann Greetings, I am going on a three-day trip to Copenhagen next week. Which museums are the most interesting for costumes and textiles and are there shops that are a must-see? I am especially interested in everything related to the middle ages, but I like all other costumes as well. Thank you so much for your recommendations, Hanna ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Gloves in the 18th century
At 19:01 17/10/2007, you wrote: I will look at my copy of that, you do mean the Eunis Close book in the Batsford series, yes? Chiara Francesca I think so - as I don't have it I don't actually know!! (But I have your nice little book on glove making - very helpful for the making side.) Suzi When asked by a customer I was unable to answer her question, in spite of having looked at various fashion plates of the late 18th century (1770's). The one book I don't have in the Batsford series of Gloves/Shawls/Shoes/Bags is of course gloves. Can anyone tell me if ladies wore gloves when dancing - we are talking high status, without being at court. If you have written or text proof I would really appreciate a pointer in that direction, as the fashion plates are not really helpful. They show them being worn with court dress and with full dress, but I cannot find anything that says Ball dress!) Thanks for any help. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tux, tails and vests
I have a page of information on 1890s men's evening attire that may be helpful, it has no photographs (yet) but it has original period illustrations: http://www.vintagevictorian.com/costume_1890_men.html Also our dance group's 1890s costume page has a description of men's evening attire at the bottom of this page: http://www.vintagedancers.org/costume_1890.html Some general guidelines: In the 1890s the tuxedo was very new, and considered as more informal evening wear. With tails, white ties seem to be pretty much universal, but both white and black vests are seen, and they are usually cut fairly low. Cummerbunds were not yet in fashion. Collars are generally stand-up collars though occasionally a fold-over (or very early wing tip) collars are seen, though they are pretty rare. Vest waistlines were not yet pointed, and ideally should not protrude below the bottom of the tailcoat front. This requires higher waistlines on the trousers, closer to the natural waist than modern fashions, for proper coverage (one of the hardest details to reproduce using modern trousers, and modern men's ideas of where their waists actually are:~). Katy On 10/17/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My students are designing a production of Dracula (1897) and are required to do research and designs for the costumes. There has been a lot of discussion of vest colors and appropriate coats for various occasions. I learned (Esquire Book of Men's Clothing, mostly) that the rule of thumb is white tie and vest with tails, black tie and vest with tux. A man in black tie and tails would be a servant ie butler or waiter. So my students have found a lot of research contrary to what my assumption was. I have seen pictures of white vest and black tie with tails, white vest and white tie with tuxedos, black vest and tie with tails on gentlemen who would never be mistaken for servants and all other permutations. The research they have found is secondary, meaning drawings from the period rather than actual photographs. Have I been wrong all these years? Also, it was my understanding that tuxedos were not considered proper in the presence of ladies. Tails were required for those occasions, although I do understand that this convention gradually faded away. Can someone elucidate me? Cheryl Odom College of Santa Fe ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tux, tails and vests
My students are designing a production of Dracula (1897) and are required to do research and designs for the costumes. There has been a lot of discussion of vest colors and appropriate coats for various occasions. I learned (Esquire Book of Men's Clothing, mostly) that the rule of thumb is white tie and vest with tails, black tie and vest with tux. A man in black tie and tails would be a servant ie butler or waiter. So my students have found a lot of research contrary to what my assumption was. I have seen pictures of white vest and black tie with tails, white vest and white tie with tuxedos, black vest and tie with tails on gentlemen who would never be mistaken for servants and all other permutations. The research they have found is secondary, meaning drawings from the period rather than actual photographs. Have I been wrong all these years? Also, it was my understanding that tuxedos were not considered proper in the presence of ladies. Tails were required for those occasions, although I do understand that this convention gradually faded away. Can someone elucidate me? Check out Farid Chenoune's A History of Men's Fashion. I believe (but it's been many years since I looked at this reasarch) that it's just around the turn of the century (so 1897 counts :-) ) that the tux moved from informal wear to being accecptable evening wear (although still not de rigeur for extreamly formal occasions). I'd recomenend Sarah Levitt's Fashion in Photographs 1880-1900 for photos of all different levels of formality for both upper-class English men and women. Sorry, I'm not at home, so I can't access my library for the answers m'self :-S Hope this helps! -sunny ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] cutting for all
Isn't Kevin on this list? Maybe not. I know his name from theatre. I heard him speak at a USITT conference several years ago. He was quite knowledgeable. I would be interested in reading this book. Sylrog On Oct 17, 2007, at 12:11 PM, Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: Does anyone know anything about this book? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809320061/thecostumersmani Zuzana __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] English Gable Hood, Holbein image
I'm at work on an English gable hood, as seen in this image: http:// commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Gablehood_front-back_c1535_detail.jpg Unfortunately I don't have a clear enough image to be able to answer this question: Is there a round button at the center of the converging triangles on the black box on the back of her head? I think I see it, but I'm not sure. Thanks to anyone who can help! Margo Anderson ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tux, tails and vests
I didn't thing tuxedos came in for evening wear until about the 1920s. They look wrong to me for 1890s. Sylrog On Oct 17, 2007, at 8:44 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Miss Manners has covered the evolution of tails and the tuxedo--try one of her earlier etiquette books.? Tuxedos were definitely informal when first developed, so your characters should probably be wearing tails.? I think the white tie and tails had been codified by then, to include the starched front shirt and white pique waistcoat, but I could be wrong. Ann Wass -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:32 am Subject: [h-cost] Tux, tails and vests My students are designing a production of Dracula (1897) and are required to do research and designs for the costumes. There has been a lot of discussion of vest colors and appropriate coats for various occasions. I learned (Esquire Book of Men's Clothing, mostly) that the rule of thumb is white tie and vest with tails, black tie and vest with tux. A man in black tie and tails would be a servant ie butler or waiter. So my students have found a lot of research contrary to what my assumption was. I have seen pictures of white vest and black tie with tails, white vest and white tie with tuxedos, black vest and tie with tails on gentlemen who would never be mistaken for servants and all other permutations. The research they have found is secondary, meaning drawings from the period rather than actual photographs. Have I been wrong all these years? Also, it was my understanding that tuxedos were not considered proper in the presence of ladies. Tails were required for those occasions, although I do understand that this convention gradually faded away. Can someone elucidate me? Cheryl Odom College of Santa Fe ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ _ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Where to go to in Copenhagen
Ooo ... well, start here ... http://www.world66.com/europe/denmark/copenhagen/museums But if you go to Nationalmuseet, Danmarks Middelalder og Renæssance, in Copenhagen please take pictures of the gloves that are there for me!! :D If they are not on display ask if you can be allowed to see them for a researcher in the US. They found a bunch of them in the moats that were filled in. They speculate that the moats were filled in around 1625 so the gloves they found there could be from pre 1600. But I gotta see them to really date them accurately. :) Thanks! Chiara Francesca -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hanna Zickermann Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 10:01 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Where to go to in Copenhagen Greetings, I am going on a three-day trip to Copenhagen next week. Which museums are the most interesting for costumes and textiles and are there shops that are a must-see? I am especially interested in everything related to the middle ages, but I like all other costumes as well. Thank you so much for your recommendations, Hanna ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Where to go to in Copenhagen
If you are mostly interrested in the medieval period, you should go to the Nationalmuseet where they have the Greenland find clothes on wiev. Also a trip to the Bymuseet, the (city museum) has a lot of things from medieval Copenhagen. Museum of decorative arts is very nice with old textiles and also Rosenborg Castle is worth a visit. Rosenborg was build early 1600 and has manny beautifull interriors. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Hanna Zickermann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 5:00 PM Subject: [h-cost] Where to go to in Copenhagen Greetings, I am going on a three-day trip to Copenhagen next week. Which museums are the most interesting for costumes and textiles and are there shops that are a must-see? I am especially interested in everything related to the middle ages, but I like all other costumes as well. Thank you so much for your recommendations, Hanna ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Gloves in the 18th century
Thank you! Always nice to hear feedback on my booklet. :D I will read the other tonight and get back to you when I get home from work. :) Chiara Francesca -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 1:22 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gloves in the 18th century At 19:01 17/10/2007, you wrote: I will look at my copy of that, you do mean the Eunis Close book in the Batsford series, yes? Chiara Francesca I think so - as I don't have it I don't actually know!! (But I have your nice little book on glove making - very helpful for the making side.) Suzi When asked by a customer I was unable to answer her question, in spite of having looked at various fashion plates of the late 18th century (1770's). The one book I don't have in the Batsford series of Gloves/Shawls/Shoes/Bags is of course gloves. Can anyone tell me if ladies wore gloves when dancing - we are talking high status, without being at court. If you have written or text proof I would really appreciate a pointer in that direction, as the fashion plates are not really helpful. They show them being worn with court dress and with full dress, but I cannot find anything that says Ball dress!) Thanks for any help. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Tux, tails and vests
Cheryl, I've fretted about this before with unsatisfactory results. My latest treasure trove to dig in, and this is for a period later than yours, is the LOC archive of dance manuals www.loc.gov. Several of them have photos of famous dance teachers in their most formal evening wear. I'm interested in the ragtime dance craze just prior to WWI. I'm also interested in mens' wear for the 1920s dance by the 20s, well things had changed, but all that's outside your era of interest. Anyway, try the LOC dance manuals. I havent been looking in the 1890s books. Also, RLShep has a large catalog of reprints of turn of the previous century tailor's manuals. I'd believe the writing of an 1890s tailor over Esquire magazine. While both are motivated to sell clothes, at least the guy from 1890 was there at the time of interest. 'Luck! --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] My students are designing a production of Dracula (1897) and are required to do research and designs for the costumes. There has been a lot of discussion of vest colors and appropriate coats for various occasions. I learned (Esquire Book of Men's Clothing, mostly) that the rule of thumb is white tie and vest with tails, black tie and vest with tux. A man in black tie and tails would be a servant ie butler or waiter. So my students have found a lot of research contrary to what my assumption was. I have seen pictures of white vest and black tie with tails, white vest and white tie with tuxedos, black vest and tie with tails on gentlemen who would never be mistaken for servants and all other permutations. The research they have found is secondary, meaning drawings from the period rather than actual photographs. Cheryl Odom College of Santa Fe ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Gloves in the 18th century
Hi Suzi I got a wonderfull book this summer in Rome with prints from Morreau le Jeunne and Freiberg. It is old prints about the fashion. In manny of the prints, ladies are wearing gloves. Also i can tell that the german reenactor ladies i visited this september used gloves in the evening at the danse soiré, i know this is no proof, but i know these ladies are very pickky about authentity..so. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:07 PM Subject: [h-cost] Gloves in the 18th century When asked by a customer I was unable to answer her question, in spite of having looked at various fashion plates of the late 18th century (1770's). The one book I don't have in the Batsford series of Gloves/Shawls/Shoes/Bags is of course gloves. Can anyone tell me if ladies wore gloves when dancing - we are talking high status, without being at court. If you have written or text proof I would really appreciate a pointer in that direction, as the fashion plates are not really helpful. They show them being worn with court dress and with full dress, but I cannot find anything that says Ball dress!) Thanks for any help. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tux, tails and vests
On Wednesday 17 October 2007, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: I didn't thing tuxedos came in for evening wear until about the 1920s. They look wrong to me for 1890s. Ann's right; tuxedos were originally a kind of informal wear; they did not become formal wear until the 1920s. Unfortunately, I don't remember enough to be more detailed than that. -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available.-- Gregory Benford ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Gloves in the 18th century
I could tell you for nineteenth century, but not earlier. (yes.) Check out the dance manual link that someone recently posted on the Library of Congress site--I remember looking there at 17th and 19th century manuals, so perhaps they had some from the 18th as well. Ann in CT --- Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone tell me if ladies wore gloves when dancing - we are talking high status, without being at court. If you have written or text proof I would really appreciate a pointer in that direction, as the fashion plates are not really helpful. They show them being worn with court dress and with full dress, but I cannot find anything that says Ball dress!) Suzi __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] cutting for all
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809320061/thecostumersmani I would be interested in reading this book. Picked this up years ago at the Smithsonian, so the review will have lots of dust on the memory... It's not something that is read. It is literally lists and lists of sources on where the information is. It would help you locate obscure sources if you're into extreme research or you needed complete situations on books and sources that you didn't have at your fingertips (like you're xeroxed from old book years ago and lost the full cites) This is just IMHO, and though a cobwebbed memory. -Cat- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tux, tails and vests
In a message dated 10/17/2007 8:34:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ann's right; tuxedos were originally a kind of informal wear; they did not become formal wear until the 1920s. Unfortunately, I don't remember enough to be more detailed than that. ** This is what I remember too. And in the teens you might see a real mix, the older men in older styles, the young men in tuxes. Here is what it says on Definitions of the clothing Textile industry: The American name tuxedo is taken from Tuxedo Park, New York, a private club of country houses founded by Pierre Lorillard, the tobacco heir. (The town of Tuxedo and Tuxedo Park themselves were named by the Lenni-Lenape Indians, who called the largest lake in the area tucseto, meaning either place of the bear or clear flowing water.) Traditionally, the first Autumn Ball, held at the Tuxedo Club in October 1886, marked the official first American appearance of the English dinner jacket, which was favored by the fast sporting crowd round the Prince of Wales, who liked to wear a Cowes jacket, somewhat like a formal mess jacket, first at dinner aboard his yacht during the regattas held at _Cowes_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowes) , and then later at other evening entertainments, though never in London. The original single- breasted model was simply a tailcoat without a tail, worn with a white piqué vest as would be worn with a tailcoat, then later with a black vest ensuite with the jacket and trousers. At the 1886 Tuxedo Park Autumn Ball, Pierre Lorillard's young son Griswold Lorillard and his friends startled guests, all in white tie and tailcoats, by wearing the new English dinner jackets, with scarlet evening vests. The tailless coats were similar in cut to hunting pinks worn in daytime at foxhunting meets. When after 1889, gentlemen in tuxedos were even admitted to the Dress Circle at the new Metropolitan Opera, the success of the new fashion was made. A Tuxedo Park insider recalls a different story of the Tuxedo Park introduction of black tie, told him in the 1920s by Grenville Kane, the last founding member of the Tuxedo Club. Kane remembered that it had been James Brown Potter who, after staying with the Prince of Wales at Sandringham in the summer of 1886, brought back the new fashion to Tuxedo and introduced it to the members of the club The American upper classes now generally prefer the terms black tie or dinner jacket to tuxedo, which is considered slightly vulgar. Early evening clothes were uniformly black. The Duke of Windsor, when Prince of Wales, introduced midnight blue as an appropriate color, and even made the double-breasted dinner jacket acceptable. The waist sash called cummerbund (or cumberbund) was borrowed after World War I, from military dress in British _India_ (http://www.apparelsearch.com/World_Clothing_Industry/India/india.htm) . ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
