Re: [h-cost] Renaissance shirt question
At 07:24 PM 1/9/2008, you wrote: When I've had this problem on modern shirts it's usually been because the neckline at the back isn't cut deep enough, so the shirt shifts to fall where it should, making it choke you. alex Weird. When I've had this problem it was because the neck opening was set too far back. Our heads are not on top of our torsoes, they're slightly forward, so when the neck opening is cut right at the shoulder seam it tends to pull and the front chokes you. Setting the neck opening a little further towards the front has solved the problem for me. With some assistance and research, we have found the problem and the solution. The problem lies in the slit neckline that was apparently used on at least some shirts of that time period (or at least some researchers claim that it was - but since they've had the opportunity to see existent pieces I defer to their expertise and knowledge). The correction is to cut an off-center oval (more toward the front than the back based on the shoulder seams) and gather to the collar. With just an inch or two scoop to the front, the collar issue is solved). While I know that this is the style in more modern shirts, there appears to be a time when the collar was cut directly on the shoulder seam. This causes the pull to the back of the neck and that lovely feeling of being strangled. It has nothing to do with what under- and over-garments you wear, it's strictly a shirt construction issue. Thanks everyone for their suggestions and advice. Connie -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1216 - Release Date: 1/9/2008 10:16 AM ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] seeking 15th-16th c. Portuguese Naval Officers uniforms
Please send any further info on this thread to Ingus at [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Great info--much thanks! :-) Arlys On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 19:57:55 -0500 Melanie Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would be very surprised if there were actually uniforms at that time. Most formal military uniforms started in the 18th century AFAIK. If you're interested in what Portuguese people wore to sail ships, there are some interesting images created by Japanese artists when the Portuguese got to Japan in the late 16th. If you're interested in that, let me know and I'll try to figure out where the info is. Melanie Schuessler On Jan 9, 2008, at 4:12 PM, Cynthia J Ley wrote: Images, possible sources for patterns--anything would be very helpful! Much thanks, Arlys ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] white wool stockings
If you're looking for heavy, I've had luck with soccer socks -- they stay up better than others, but you have to find ones without logos or stripes on them. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sharon Collier Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 6:02 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: [h-cost] white wool stockings If not in the women's department, try a hiking/backpacking store. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leif og Bjarne Drews Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 4:35 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] white wool stockings I am going to an event in Sweden in start of february the north of Sweden, where it usually is very cold for this season. I wondered if someone knows if a womans department in a big warehouse would have long knee woolen stockings wich i could wear to my 18th century outfit? Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] white wool stockings
One more cent on stockings: http://www.sockdreams.com/_shop/edit/index.php I don't know if they will ship overseas to Bjarne but I have been enjoying their variety of wool and cotton stockings since I found them about two months ago. Most are not 100% but some are close, and the size information and reviews are very helpful (and I have found them truthful so far). Also some of their brands are European, so maybe he could seek them out locally. Lauren -- Original message -- From: Kate Pinner [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you're looking for heavy, I've had luck with soccer socks -- they stay up better than others, but you have to find ones without logos or stripes on them. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sharon Collier Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 6:02 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: [h-cost] white wool stockings If not in the women's department, try a hiking/backpacking store. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leif og Bjarne Drews Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 4:35 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] white wool stockings I am going to an event in Sweden in start of february the north of Sweden, where it usually is very cold for this season. I wondered if someone knows if a womans department in a big warehouse would have long knee woolen stockings wich i could wear to my 18th century outfit? Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] white wool stockings
No, they were definitely pantyhose--like stockings but attached to, well, stocking panties. Nobody could tell we weren't bare-legged. --Ruth Anne On Jan 9, 2008, at 4:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My two cents: 1) My late brother used to wear men's large Danskin ballet tights as long underwear under his (fashionably tight) jeans. I mention the male-dancer's tights as they might fit Bjarne better -- tights or pantyhose that are too small get uncomfortable pretty fast, either pulling on your kneecaps or creeping down until the crotch is between your knees. Which will be particularly uncomfy in 18th- century breeches! 2) Wikipedia says panty hose were first manufactured in 1965, but prior to that, there were little girls' and dancers' tights -- I remember having them as a toddler at least as early as 1960. Wikipedia attributes the full-body leotard (which went to the ankles) to, ahem, Jules Leotard, who died in 1870. (The first recorded use of leotard to describe a dancer's or acrobat's costume in English is 1886, according to Wikipedia again.) The tights from my childhood weren't sheer like pantyhose -- indeed some of them were waffle-weave, like thermals -- but they came in flesh-tone colors (like ballet pink, a slightly peachy pale pink) and might be what you remember wearing under your marching band skirt. They would have been warmer than pantyhose; living in upstate New York, with its cold winters, I remember continuing to prefer tights to pantyhose for winter wear through the mid-70s. Actually, I prefer them today; they last far longer and usually fit better. -- Original message -- From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a former marching-band member, I'd like to second (belatedly) the recommendation of pantyhose (or tights) to layer with Bjarne's period stockings. On a costume-history note: interestingly, I keep hearing that pantyhose were invented in the late 'sixties, and certainly I didn't routinely buy them for ordinary wear until '68 or so; but my friends Connie, Joyce, another Joyce, Patty, Marilyn, Rita, and Marcia would join me in testifying that our mothers found them, bought them, and saved our musical knees with them as early as 1962. Can anyone else pinpoint an earliest-available date, from her own experience? --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Jan 4, 2008, at 1:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/4/2008 10:40:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The best bet may be to layer stockings. * This is what I was thinking too. Unless you want a more rustic look with the wool, I'd get a pair of pantyhose or tights. They are very warm in themselves, but put your silk stockings over them and you should be quite warmunless it's like way below freezing. The modern super-stretchy tights would be very smooth and more than likely undetectable under your correct period stockings. Even if you do get some fine wool stockings, layering may be needed to keep you warm. Are there not depictions of men in layers of different colored stockings...some rolled down a bit to show the layers underneath? Or is that too early? Too dandy? **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise? NCID=aolcmp0030002489 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Silk Taffeta on sale
Just thought I'd mention, Fashion Fabrics Club has silk taffeta for $9.95 yd. http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/Catalog_items.aspx?Query=silk+taffeta+9.95 Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Tudors Sweating Sickness (OT)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit There is substantial mention of a sweating sickness that killed thousands during Henry VIII's time. What was that? No mention of buboes like for plague or marks like smallpox. Did this really happen or was it just part of their story? It was very contagious and people were told to burn all clothing bedding. I believe consumption is tuberculosis, right? Any other old disease names with modern equivalents I should know? I know the costumes were discussed when the show first came out What I found most jarring was anything from the neck up. The hairstyles were extremely modern. Long hair was down exposed. Crowns headgear, at least on the women, looked fantasy or Las Vegas. Julie in Ramona The sweating sickness is one of those medical mysteries that we may never be able to answer. It was evidently a real sickness (there are many references in contemporary letters and documents), but what caused it is unknown. It was evidently not plague or smallpox, both of which have readily recognizable symptoms; it was not tuberculosis, which does not kill in a few hours or days. From the descriptions, it sounds, to me, like it could have been a particularly virulent form of influenza or even malaria. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interesting. My daughter mentioned malaria but I told her it couldn't be that because it's tropical. Cholera was mentioned as well. I was thinking along the lines of the horrible influenza in the U.S. in 19...teens that killed so many. Wasn't it called the Spanish Influenza? Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] tights
Since they have been mentioned, I thought someone might be able to help me. Target used to carry 100% cotton tights for a reasonable price, but now they carry microfiber, which my skin won't tolerate. Ditto nylon or mostly nylon blend. Silk pantyhose were available for a few months, but apparently weren't popular. I've found cotton tights for almost $20 a pair-has anyone seen any natural fibre tights for less? Thanks Carol Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Tudors Sweating Sickness (OT)
Malaria occurs in areas other than tropical ones. In the book, Little House on the Prairie, the whole family gets malaria and thankfully, a neighbor drops by and is able to get them medicine. Oklahoma in the 1860-1870's. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julie Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Tudors Sweating Sickness (OT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit There is substantial mention of a sweating sickness that killed thousands during Henry VIII's time. What was that? No mention of buboes like for plague or marks like smallpox. Did this really happen or was it just part of their story? It was very contagious and people were told to burn all clothing bedding. I believe consumption is tuberculosis, right? Any other old disease names with modern equivalents I should know? I know the costumes were discussed when the show first came out What I found most jarring was anything from the neck up. The hairstyles were extremely modern. Long hair was down exposed. Crowns headgear, at least on the women, looked fantasy or Las Vegas. Julie in Ramona The sweating sickness is one of those medical mysteries that we may never be able to answer. It was evidently a real sickness (there are many references in contemporary letters and documents), but what caused it is unknown. It was evidently not plague or smallpox, both of which have readily recognizable symptoms; it was not tuberculosis, which does not kill in a few hours or days. From the descriptions, it sounds, to me, like it could have been a particularly virulent form of influenza or even malaria. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interesting. My daughter mentioned malaria but I told her it couldn't be that because it's tropical. Cholera was mentioned as well. I was thinking along the lines of the horrible influenza in the U.S. in 19...teens that killed so many. Wasn't it called the Spanish Influenza? Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tights
Don't know the price, but you might try the Vermont Country Store. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carol Mitchell Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] tights Since they have been mentioned, I thought someone might be able to help me. Target used to carry 100% cotton tights for a reasonable price, but now they carry microfiber, which my skin won't tolerate. Ditto nylon or mostly nylon blend. Silk pantyhose were available for a few months, but apparently weren't popular. I've found cotton tights for almost $20 a pair-has anyone seen any natural fibre tights for less? Thanks Carol Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] tights
These are $16, free shipping, 81% cotton. http://www.sockdreams.com/_shop/pages/socks_detail_ProductID_806.php These are 85% cotton, $19.95, probably a shipping charge: http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=5850itemType=PRODUCTiMainCat=730iSubCat=835iProductID=5850 Everything else I've seen is $20 or above -- Hannah Anderson had some mostly-cottons before Xmas on sale for about $17 but they're gone now. Lauren -- Original message -- From: Carol Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Since they have been mentioned, I thought someone might be able to help me. Target used to carry 100% cotton tights for a reasonable price, but now they carry microfiber, which my skin won't tolerate. Ditto nylon or mostly nylon blend. Silk pantyhose were available for a few months, but apparently weren't popular. I've found cotton tights for almost $20 a pair-has anyone seen any natural fibre tights for less? Thanks Carol Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] white wool stockings
Ruth Anne asked if anyone had personal experience with pantyhose before 1962 and Lauren listed Wikipedia's history. In 1962 I was 9-10 and still wearing white socks to church. However, my understanding is that Ann Miller - the dancer/actor/singer with the incredible legs - held the patent for the first pantyhose as pantyhose. If you've ever seen her dance in her many movies, she always lifts her skirts so you can see how fast she's tapping and lifts them as high as possible; she really did have amazingly beautiful, long legs into her 70s. Anyway, she found a need for stockings that were higher than the usual stockings and went from there. She was very big starting in the mid-late 1950s, right? Time for me to watch On the Town and Kiss Me Kate again... LynnD On 1/10/08, Ruth Anne Baumgartner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, they were definitely pantyhose--like stockings but attached to, well, stocking panties. Nobody could tell we weren't bare-legged. --Ruth Anne On Jan 9, 2008, at 4:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My two cents: 1) My late brother used to wear men's large Danskin ballet tights as long underwear under his (fashionably tight) jeans. I mention the male-dancer's tights as they might fit Bjarne better -- tights or pantyhose that are too small get uncomfortable pretty fast, either pulling on your kneecaps or creeping down until the crotch is between your knees. Which will be particularly uncomfy in 18th- century breeches! 2) Wikipedia says panty hose were first manufactured in 1965, but prior to that, there were little girls' and dancers' tights -- I remember having them as a toddler at least as early as 1960. Wikipedia attributes the full-body leotard (which went to the ankles) to, ahem, Jules Leotard, who died in 1870. (The first recorded use of leotard to describe a dancer's or acrobat's costume in English is 1886, according to Wikipedia again.) The tights from my childhood weren't sheer like pantyhose -- indeed some of them were waffle-weave, like thermals -- but they came in flesh-tone colors (like ballet pink, a slightly peachy pale pink) and might be what you remember wearing under your marching band skirt. They would have been warmer than pantyhose; living in upstate New York, with its cold winters, I remember continuing to prefer tights to pantyhose for winter wear through the mid-70s. Actually, I prefer them today; they last far longer and usually fit better. -- Original message -- From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a former marching-band member, I'd like to second (belatedly) the recommendation of pantyhose (or tights) to layer with Bjarne's period stockings. On a costume-history note: interestingly, I keep hearing that pantyhose were invented in the late 'sixties, and certainly I didn't routinely buy them for ordinary wear until '68 or so; but my friends Connie, Joyce, another Joyce, Patty, Marilyn, Rita, and Marcia would join me in testifying that our mothers found them, bought them, and saved our musical knees with them as early as 1962. Can anyone else pinpoint an earliest-available date, from her own experience? --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Jan 4, 2008, at 1:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/4/2008 10:40:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The best bet may be to layer stockings. * This is what I was thinking too. Unless you want a more rustic look with the wool, I'd get a pair of pantyhose or tights. They are very warm in themselves, but put your silk stockings over them and you should be quite warmunless it's like way below freezing. The modern super-stretchy tights would be very smooth and more than likely undetectable under your correct period stockings. Even if you do get some fine wool stockings, layering may be needed to keep you warm. Are there not depictions of men in layers of different colored stockings...some rolled down a bit to show the layers underneath? Or is that too early? Too dandy? **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise? NCID=aolcmp0030002489 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume
[h-cost] re: natural fiber tights
Im Canadian and here in BC Walmart has bamboo tights for reasonable probably somewhere closer to 10 a pair. Probably under that I don't know exactly but my mom bought 2 pairs right before Christmas. They are super soft and I want to try a pair In the past I have gotten rayon tights there too but the fit was horrible as I have long legs and have a few pounds extra Yolanda ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Tudors Sweating Sickness (OT)
Interesting. My daughter mentioned malaria but I told her it couldn't be that because it's tropical. Cholera was mentioned as well. I was thinking along the lines of the horrible influenza in the U.S. in 19...teens that killed so many. Wasn't it called the Spanish Influenza? I've seen references to malaria in England in Victorian times, but don't have the books handy right now. And yes, the 1918 pandemic was known as the Spanish Flu (despite starting out in Kansas, USA). Sweating sickness doesn't quite match the 1918 symptoms ... but flu viruses are so mutable, you really can't go by that. Costume content, costume content, there's gotta be some around here ... America's Forgotten Pandemic has several references (and photos) of people wearing gauze masks to protect themselves from the flu. Anyone ever do a Costume Con historical masquerade entry from 1918 with flu masks? (It'll be Milwaukee before I can go again, but I'm trying to decide on an entry early.) Leah ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] How Are the Costumes in Amazing Grace?
Hi all, Having just watched Amazing Grace for the fourth or fifth time, I got it for Christmas and I love the story, I was wondering how correct they were with the costuming. My focus is much earlier. Particularly the wife of Wilburforce's cousin at breakfast near the end of the film, and the women's costumes. I did like the way the men tended to use their wigs like hats, and took them off periodically during the film. Thanks Genie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Tudors Sweating Sickness (OT)
No-one's done a 1918 costume with a flu mask. There was a plague doctor from Venice, guessing 16th-17th century, at Costume-Con 12. Photo here: http://www.costume-con.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItemg2_itemId=5674 Sandy At 08:36 PM 1/10/2008, you wrote: And yes, the 1918 pandemic was known as the Spanish Flu (despite starting out in Kansas, USA). Sweating sickness doesn't quite match the 1918 symptoms ... but flu viruses are so mutable, you really can't go by that. Costume content, costume content, there's gotta be some around here ... America's Forgotten Pandemic has several references (and photos) of people wearing gauze masks to protect themselves from the flu. Anyone ever do a Costume Con historical masquerade entry from 1918 with flu masks? (It'll be Milwaukee before I can go again, but I'm trying to decide on an entry early.) Leah Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm The Illusion of Historical Fact -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
