Re: [h-cost] No rings on middle finger (was Black beads PrincessElizabeth image)
I had heard about the fool's finger elsewhere online, and I remember smiling in recognition when I read it in your book. It has made me not put rings on that finger at faires, and I am trying to get my friends to do the same, but most continue to do so. By your comment of Mary QoS, I went and googled for Mary's image, and found Marilee Cody's site that has almost all of her images and related images. http://www.marileecody.com/maryqosimages.html If there is one of Mary QoS wearing a ring on her middle finger, I could not find it. I did find one of her posed with a ring about to be placed on the ring finger of her right hand. http://www.marileecody.com/maryqos/maryring.jpg Otherwise, I note that most of her images she is wearing no rings. Maybe it is the one or two not on her site at this time? btw, that one image above by one artist, the dress she is wearing is repeated in this next image of Mary QoS, same hair style, too. http://www.marileecody.com/maryqos/maryqosclouetdark.jpg Makes me wonder which was the original painting. And years ago I had wanted to recreate the gown, although I think beading all those tri-clusters of pearls would drive me batty! Kimiko --- On Wed, 6/17/09, Maggie wrote: > I know of one full length portrait of > Mary Queen of Scots, and I believe > I've seen a couple other examples (possibly German), but > they're way > out-numbered. According the author of the book I mentioned, > the middle > finger "is for fools", but he doesn't really say much else > about it. > Although he does say a similar habit prevailed among the > ancient Greeks and > Romans and contemporary (1917) Hindus. > > This tidbit is included in The Compendium, by the way. ;-) > > MaggiRos ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] No rings on middle finger (was Black beads PrincessElizabeth image)
I know of one full length portrait of Mary Queen of Scots, and I believe I've seen a couple other examples (possibly German), but they're way out-numbered. According the author of the book I mentioned, the middle finger "is for fools", but he doesn't really say much else about it. Although he does say a similar habit prevailed among the ancient Greeks and Romans and contemporary (1917) Hindus. This tidbit is included in The Compendium, by the way. ;-) MaggiRos Maggie Secara ~A Compendium of Common Knowledge 1558-1603 Available at your favorite online bookseller See our gallery at http://www.zazzle.com/popinjaypress On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Frank A Thallas Jr < fathal...@collinscom.net> wrote: > Wow, my "learned" thing of the day! Went to my stash of > portraits-with-blackwork out of curiosity, and not one single middle-finger > ring - even on the folks wearing a ring on every other finger. > Amazing the things you never notice! :-) > > Liadain > > THL Liadain ni Mhordha OFO > "You get a wonderful view from the point of no return..." > wildernesse, the Outlands > http://practical-blackwork.blogspot.com > http://www.flickr.com/photos/liadains_fancies > http://practical-blackwork.tripod.com > > -Original Message- > From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Kimiko Small > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:04 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] No rings on middle finger (was Black beads > PrincessElizabeth image) > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/17/09, Maggie wrote: > > Just as a sidebar... notice that there are NO rings on the > > middle fingers. > > Look at portrait after 16th century portrait and this is > > what you find 90% > > of the time. and not just in England. People are almost > > never shown with a > > ring on a middle finger. > > > I had noticed that a few years ago when I started keeping images, and I've > only once come across a portrait that showed someone wearing a ring on that > finger... and sadly forgot to save the image off so I don't have it. If > anyone knows of any contemporary portrait that shows someone wearing a ring > on their middle finger, do let me know. > > And thanks for the book note, as I've not read it before. > > Kimiko > > > > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] No rings on middle finger (was Black beads PrincessElizabeth image)
Wow, my "learned" thing of the day! Went to my stash of portraits-with-blackwork out of curiosity, and not one single middle-finger ring - even on the folks wearing a ring on every other finger. Amazing the things you never notice! :-) Liadain THL Liadain ni Mhordha OFO "You get a wonderful view from the point of no return..." wildernesse, the Outlands http://practical-blackwork.blogspot.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/liadains_fancies http://practical-blackwork.tripod.com -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kimiko Small Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:04 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] No rings on middle finger (was Black beads PrincessElizabeth image) --- On Wed, 6/17/09, Maggie wrote: > Just as a sidebar... notice that there are NO rings on the > middle fingers. > Look at portrait after 16th century portrait and this is > what you find 90% > of the time. and not just in England. People are almost > never shown with a > ring on a middle finger. I had noticed that a few years ago when I started keeping images, and I've only once come across a portrait that showed someone wearing a ring on that finger... and sadly forgot to save the image off so I don't have it. If anyone knows of any contemporary portrait that shows someone wearing a ring on their middle finger, do let me know. And thanks for the book note, as I've not read it before. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] No rings on middle finger (was Black beads Princess Elizabeth image)
--- On Wed, 6/17/09, Maggie wrote: > Just as a sidebar... notice that there are NO rings on the > middle fingers. > Look at portrait after 16th century portrait and this is > what you find 90% > of the time. and not just in England. People are almost > never shown with a > ring on a middle finger. I had noticed that a few years ago when I started keeping images, and I've only once come across a portrait that showed someone wearing a ring on that finger... and sadly forgot to save the image off so I don't have it. If anyone knows of any contemporary portrait that shows someone wearing a ring on their middle finger, do let me know. And thanks for the book note, as I've not read it before. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Black beads Princess Elizabeth image
Can you tell me more about the rings? I've never heard that. I've seen it but never noticed. Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine > Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:32:52 -0700 > From: maggi...@gmail.com > To: h-cost...@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Black beads Princess Elizabeth image > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Becky Rautine wrote: > > > > > All her rings match the ouches. > > > > Just as a sidebar... notice that there are NO rings on the middle fingers. > Look at portrait after 16th century portrait and this is what you find 90% > of the time. and not just in England. People are almost never shown with a > ring on a middle finger. > > This feature is pointed out in _Rings for the Finger_ by Kuntz. Ever since I > learned this, I find it impossible to wear a ring on a middle finger when in > period dress! > > MaggiRos > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Black beads Princess Elizabeth image
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Becky Rautine wrote: > > All her rings match the ouches. Just as a sidebar... notice that there are NO rings on the middle fingers. Look at portrait after 16th century portrait and this is what you find 90% of the time. and not just in England. People are almost never shown with a ring on a middle finger. This feature is pointed out in _Rings for the Finger_ by Kuntz. Ever since I learned this, I find it impossible to wear a ring on a middle finger when in period dress! MaggiRos ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Jacquard & brocades
Jacquard is a type of Loom or of controlling the weaving on a loom. It was invented in 1801 and makes the weaving of complex fabric like brocades less time consuming. There were precursors to it, too; the jacquard controller did not spring full-grown from M. Jacquard's forehead. The fabric was almost certainly a brocade, with a main color and a contrasting pattern weft. Ann in CT --- Kimiko Small wrote: > Jacquard is a modern term, and I am not positive if "brocade" is the > right term for the fabric. Whatever the term, you are > right... it would have been very expensive! > > Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question about a portrait
> The "OLD" Houses of Parliament were burnt-down in a catastrophic fire in > the early 1840's - 1842, I think, - leaving only Westminster Hall from the > older buildings. > A.W.N. Pugin was the Architect who did most of the detail design for the > "new" Houses of Parliament. Came across this same info in a book about the Gothic Revival, of which these buildings are a prime example. > So the pictures of the Kings and Queens of England you mention are of early > Victorian date - though the Artists may have drawn upon older images. Basing your painting on an older painting is an old artistic tradition. Swipe the pose and everything - why not? And you might have noticed in some of the images on that amazing website, the copies reverse right to left in printing. -- Carolyn Kayta Barrows -- “The future is already here, it is just unevenly distributed.” -William Gibson -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question about a portrait
--- On Wed, 17/6/09, michaela de bruce wrote: SNIPPED FOR BREVITY On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Elizabeth Walpole < ewalp...@grapevine.com.au> wrote: > I'm pretty sure this is from the decoration in the British Parliament, there > is a series of all the kings and queens of England and they all have a gold > background and a caption underneath, > I think it was done in the Victorian period but I don't know for sure. > Elizabeth COMMENT The "OLD" Houses of Parliament were burnt-down in a catastrophic fire in the early 1840's - 1842, I think, - leaving only Westminster Hall from the older buildings. A.W.N. Pugin was the Architect who did most of the detail design for the "new" Houses of Parliament. I had occasion to research this item while doing some family History Research. An ancestor of mine, a Stonemason from Bloxham, near Oxford, - being unable to find work in his local area, - "tramped-it" to London, sleeping in barns and under hedges - and got a job on the re-building of the "replacement" Houses of Parliament.He stayed on the job until the work on the new buildings were completed, and saved-up enough money from tha "long contract" to bring his sweetheart from Chipping Norton to London, and marry her in the church of St. Martin-in-the-Fields. So the pictures of the Kings and Queens of England you mention are of early Victorian date - though the Artists may have drawn upon older images. Cordially Julian Wilson, now dwelling in "old" Jersey. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question about a portrait
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Elizabeth Walpole < ewalp...@grapevine.com.au> wrote: > I'm pretty sure this is from the decoration in the British Parliament, > there > is a series of all the kings and queens of England and they all have a gold > background and a caption underneath, > I think it was done in the Victorian period but I don't know for sure. > Elizabeth > http://www.explore-parliament.net/nssMovies/index.htm Yep. Start from Elizabeth of York and work down for the specific examples. http://www.explore-parliament.net/nssMovies/02/0279/0279_.htm Anne Boleyn is actually from a portrait of Anne of Bohemia. Seems to have been mis-named for a long time as I saw the same (original) portrait in an old encyclopedia under Anne's Boleyn's entry ;) Other images on the site have modern-ish interpretations too ;) http://www.explore-parliament.net/nssMovies/01/0169/0169_.htm http://www.explore-parliament.net/nssMovies/01/0193/0193_.htm I must flee or I'd have fun looking for other interpretations. They seem to tell a lot about the period they are created in. Michaela http://glittersweet.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Black beads Princess Elizabeth image
I've documented the gown from start to now and hopefully to the end. I'll add this information to the documentation of it. Thanks. My cloth isn't red and gold but an orange-pinkish fabric with the same pattern as that in the portrait. Jacquard or brocade... it looks very similar. Who wouldn't want a gown of fine spun gold thread and deep rich red silk. Sure bet it never had a strain in a seam to fix! I did find out some things on a Lady Jane Grey site that told about how these portraits were painted as bethrothal gift before a marriage. Maybe that was why it was given to her... as a precursor to a good marriage arrangement by her brother or father. Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:34:28 -0700 > From: sstormwa...@yahoo.com > To: h-cost...@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Black beads Princess Elizabeth image > > > Found it in my old emails. Ninya stated: > " It is in fact red cloth of gold, the mixture of red and gold threads give > an overall impression of a different colour. " > > You can see the streaks of gold in the painting. Jacquard is a modern term, > and I am not positive if "brocade" is the right term for the fabric. Whatever > the term, you are right... it would have been very expensive! > > Kimiko > > > --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Becky Rautine wrote: > > Her gown fabric > > would have been a jacquard I think so it would have been > > expensive. > > > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question about a portrait
I had two light historical novels published back in the 70s, about the same characters. The cover of the first gave an excellent interpretation of the hero and heroine, but the second, by a different artist, simply copied a magazine photo of a reenactor to represent him, including wrong hair colour! As Elizabeth Walpole said, my first thought was that the Lady Jane Grey image must have been one of those from the Houses of Parliament. We had a discussion of a similar one of Mary Tudor a while back. Kate Bunting Librarian & 17th century reenactor Sharon Collier wrote: >Don't judge the book by it's cover. I have read books about black haired >heroines, which have a picture of a blonde heroine on the front. ___ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk The policy is available here: http://www.derby.ac.uk/LIS/Email-Policy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question about a portrait
I'm pretty sure this is from the decoration in the British Parliament, there is a series of all the kings and queens of England and they all have a gold background and a caption underneath, I think it was done in the Victorian period but I don't know for sure. Elizabeth -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Becky Rautine Sent: Tuesday, 16 June 2009 3:29 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Question about a portrait This is a portrait I haven't seen before... of Lady Jane Grey. http://www.bitterwisdom.com/ladyjanegrey/life/panel-2-lady-jane-grey.jpg I found this and like the doublet style. Can anyone tell me what the white things are on the shoulders? What can you tell me about the making of this gown? Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
