[h-cost] Re: breakfast at tiffany's costume
No, that's not what I'm thinking of, although it is a similar but less exaggerated style. This is much more like it: http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/arth214_folder/mary_of_burgundy.h tml I hope that comes through all right. Shorten the hennin and starch the lower veil until it's a stiff cone, and you've got the hat right there. And the collar of her dress also inspires the front of the actress's gown. This isn't the painting I was referring to but it's the first one I could find online that has the same elements. In the one I'm thinking of the gown itself is either dark blue or black. I just love that dress, it is such a fun adaptation. The reason the original poster called it the Breakfast at Tiffany's dress is that it makes the actress, Suzanna Zossiman (??something like that??) look like Audrey Hepburn. Sort of an Audrey Hepburn movie costume inspired by by a fifteenth-century gown and worn in a 1990s movie!!! Or was that 2000 already? Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming
Sharon wrote: A Knight's Tale is a great example. I don't know much about the period, but most of the costumes seemed okay. Except for the female lead. She stuck out like a sore thumb. I especially remember the hat that looked like something from Breakfast at Tiffany's. Actually, Sharon, none of the costumes were authentic in that film. I'm not sure what you are saying it's a great example of. Personally, I loved the costumes -- they had the FEEL of the historic period, while they were done in all sorts of weird fabrics, etc. I loved that whole Breakfast at Tiffany's outfit, and I know exactly which paintings inspired it! Another fun one is Brother Sun, Sister Moon, the Franco Zeffirelli film about St. Francis. All sorts of bizarre fabrics used there, combining the period-like look of the garments with the textures and colors he wanted. If a story is supposed to be fantasy medieval, renaissance, Victorian, or just old time then I generally like it. As others have said, it's when directors or PR people tout the historical accuracy when costumes get on my nerves. Anyone remember the Kevin Costner film that can't be named? I mean, the one set in England in Sherwood Forest -- not other Kevin Costner films that can't be named. They went on and on about the historical accuracy in that one, and it stunk. The costumes need to help tell the story, and there are many legitimate ways to do that. What bugs me in a theater setting is when the costumes are amateurish (if it's a professional theater) or old and moth-eaten. One summer our opera company rented two sets of costumes that were just horrendous, and the main problem is that they looked about 30 years old and falling apart. One was for an opera about the French Revolution, and the company had all the main characters' costumes made while they rented the costumes for the aristocrats/chorus. The main costumes, for peasants, were much nicer than the aristocrats, who looked as if they had definitely fallen on hard times! But those things happen in theater... Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 6, Issue 188
If this doesn't take you there go to http://www.bl.uk/ and search for holy family at work --- I'm sure there is more symbolism in that painting than you could shake a stick at ... and I'd be interested in the whole story (off list) but if I could only have one explanation, I'd like to know about that little vase inside the cupboard doors of that little stool. The one with the bird perched on it. --- I was wondering about the ants! I don't think the ants are symbolic, or the big red bug in the corner. I think they were just for fun. Many manuscript embellishments, even in major illuminations, were simply for the amusement of the owner. Remember, most people didn't have many books or pictures (if any). I own a facsimile of the Hours of Mary of Burgundy that has a hunt scene in the margins of many pages and some silly drawings. But the vase is probably a symbol of Mary's purity: her being a precious vessel preserved from use. I'm sure Robin can tell us more... Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] tudors
Cat Devereaux wrote: Second season (warning this sounds like a commercial and didn't look up to see what years it really is): The second season will be even juicier than the first as we get into the infamous marriage of Henry VIII to Anne Boleyn, the birth of their daughter Elizabeth (who would one day become the greatest ruler in English history), the execution of Sir Thomas More, the Reformation of the church under the zealous supervision of Thomas Cromwell, and, finally, the infamous beheading of Anne after only three years of marriage. HEADS WILL ROLL! Thanks for the update! Maybe I should see if the first season will be out on DVD, I could use a good comedy series to watch. Yes, the post I got was from Peace Arch, a rather bizarre name for a film production company. My favorite part of the post was also from an explanation of the series, something about Henry taking on the all-powerful Catholic Church. That statement begs for arguments of all sorts, but the best one is that if he got rid of it, then it wasn't exactly all-powerful! This one is pretty good, too, especially the part about Elizabeth being the greatest ruler in English history. One of them, sure. But that's quite a claim. How about, say, William the Conquerer? Oh well, I guess it will be around for at least one more year... Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] tudors news
For some reason I got an email yesterday from the film company that makes or distributes The Tudors, which was discussed here. (I don't get cable so I've never seen it). Apparently they think I might like to become a stock holder! Anyway, the headline of the email was that The Tudors will have a second season. How much time did it cover, anyway? Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: the castles and busby berkley
Is that Gold Diggers movie the one with the neon violins? I love that one! Irene Castle wrote a book called My Husband, which I once read. She came across as a real pain in the neck! But of course she wrote about him as a saint. I love the Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers movie about them. It has one of my all-time favorite Astaire solo dances, the one he does to By the Light of the Silvery Moon, and the dance they do when they're starving to Tres Moutard, and of course the saddest, most romantic ending... Oh, I think I'm going to have to go watch it. I used to do a lot of vintage ballroom dance, and their dancing in that movie is much closer to real ballroom dancing than in any of their other movies, and to real dancing of the nineteen-teens. If I remember correctly, Irene Castle consulted on the dancing and was never happy with Ginger Rogers playing her. Costume content: The movie does show Irene bob her hair in the famous Castle Bob, and her famous Dutch cap. And she wears some killer dresses. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: robin's suggestion
on 3/21/07 3:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For 3 3/4 yd of 45 wide fabric, particularly in dark gold silk noil, consider this: http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/g/gentiles/orazio/luteplay.html I once did this out of two wool scraps that totaled about 2 1/2 yards (OK, they were 60 inches wide, but you've got much more than that). A bonus: cheap spun silks, similar to noil, would have been used for non-wealthy Italians in this period. And there's your color documented for you right in that painting. I have never noticed the arm/shoulder treatment in that dress before. How does it work, exactly? And why is it like that? It looks as if the front of the bodice has a shoulder strap that connects to a string or cord of some kind attached to the back of the dress. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] elizabethan reproduction
on 3/15/07 10:18 AM, melanie wrote: I have a color version of this, and it's actually little quatrefoils with pearls in the middle--you can see my reconstruction of the stomacher at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/brown.html (scroll down to see a closeup) Oh, thanks for posting that! The prettiest thing I have seen today, and the photo of the back of the gown is just stunning! Yes, I like the back better... I'm odd. I just love the way all the lines of the gold lace meet. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: phoenix art museum pix
on saragrace wrote: Here are a few pics from the Phoenix Art Museum talk I did last week. Still tweaking the CSS style sheets so bear with me! I'll be updating some of the details for the diary now that I have time . http://saragrace.us/images/GoldenAge/Actuals/Event/index.htm Saragrace, I just had a minute to look at your wonderful pictures. Who is the little girl who is in the corner of the first one? I hope you had a great audience, it looks like a fabulous talk. Here is my question. The gown looks just right to me -- correct fit, shape, silhouette, etc. But it sure looks uncomfortable! I know that most people today think almost anything historic looks uncomfortable, but I don't. I've worn a lot of historic styles, or approximations thereof, and have found almost all of them to be perfectly comfortable (and more comfortable than badly fitting contemporary clothes). But this just looks uncomfortable for sitting, standing, walking, anything. How do those of you on the list who wear this style find it? Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: boy vs. girl (was: saragrace's nederlandish gown)
Oops! I could say that I only caught a glimpse of the little guy, so I mistook him for a girl, but that would be a fib. My modern bias was showing... Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: robin hood
Is it on DVD? I don't have cable. I'll watch if the story is good, unless the costumes are awful. Did anyone catch the new Dracula, which was just on here (probably last year's BBC season). I saw about five minutes and couldn't take it after Lucy's new husband left the wedding to perform some kind of blood-heavy black mass or something. Everyone usually massacres Dracula in the same Freudian way, but this looked like an equally stupid way to massacre it. I sure wish someone would just do the real story. Anyway, I didn't get a chance to notice the costumes. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: pattern sizes
Monica wrote: The pattern companies changed their specs in the middle 60s. FWIW--Sizes as we know them are not accurate since there is no real standard. Most companies have their dress form made to their own specs-- Target. Kmart and JCPenneys have them. Others probably do too. It gets expensive for the manufacturer who has to foot the bill for multiple sizes and for multiple stors. Some of the forms are $2000. No wonder people make garments offshore now... But why can't they all use the same standard? I can shop at certain stores, but not at all in others. I am petite and a size 6-8 US, so I am not unusually shaped other than being short. But there's no point in my trying on clothes at, say, Target or Kohl's. JC Penney? They fit! But in lots of stores, for instance, I swim in the small misses shirts, while the juniors shirts (supposing I can find any non-slutty ones) look like I'm about to burst out of even the mediums and larges. Where do the real medium and large-sized teenagers go? Pattern companies are even crazier! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] re: to tab or not to tab
I don't know what is supposed to look stupid here. I like the tabs. And I like the ones that don't match better than the ones that do -- the matchy ones look costumey to me and the random ones look more real. Oh well, I may be tacky but I guess I'm period! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: color
Jean wrote: I know there are linguistic studies that aim to show the cognitive importance, if you like, of different colours by the order in which languages develop them. You have to work on words for colours that are not linked to the description of an object - orange or aubergine, for example, just say the colour of that thing. But all languages have words for light and dark, black and white. I'm pretty sure the next one is red, then green and blue interchangeably. So if a language has a word for either green or blue, it must also have a word for red - if it has no word for red, it can't have a word for green or blue. I seem to remember it goes a bit random after that. So green may have been the first colour to appear, but red is the most important one to identify and tell your friends about! Actually wouldn't there be volcanoes before plants? ;-) Jean Linguistic studies aside, the woman was talking about which color was created (or evolved) first and she said it was green because of plants. No color before plants. Even if you don't think of black and white as colors, I thought that yellow must have come first (sunlight). And of course as you say red and orange -- fire, volcanoes, etc. But she was adamant on green. Gail ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: color names
I din't know anything about the Color Association, but I'm very familiar witht the Color Marketing Group. They are a hilarious bunch who call themselves forecasters. They claim to go around the world forecasting color trends. Well, they DO go around thew world, it's the forecasting they claim . The forecasters travel around looking at the colors of what they thimk will be big design trends -- Asian stuff, for instance, or high-tech gadgets. Then they compile lists of colors found in these things and name them all. Then all the car companies, furniture companies, etc., buy the lists because if you produce things that don't go with everyone else's colors, yours won't sell. The thing is that these forecasts are for several years out, not for the next year, so they have to stretch hard to do their forecasts -- or so they believe. I've always thought that they were very a very sophisticated group of extortionists, and maybe they are, but talk to any of them and you will find they are vehement about their mission and their forecasting abilities. They really seem to believe they are divining trends, not just choosing whatever they feel like (which is what I think they do). I also once interviewed someone from the Pantone Institute, which is run by the Pantone company that puts together formulas for inks. She told me, very seriously, that green was the first color to appear in the universe. Those color people are a funny lot! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] movie costumes
I haven't seen either of these movies discussed, so here goes. Today we took our kids to see Night at the Museum. Lots of fun costumes -- at night all the characters in the museum come to life, so there are costumes from all eras and cultures. Because they are museum mannequins come to life, they are all supposed to be costumes (not real period clothes) so I had relief from my typical costumed-movie horror. There were LOTS more people in this movie than I thought there would be from the commercials, a whole Roman army, for example. It was a lot of fun, lightweight but very enjoyable. My favorite costumes were two people dressed as terra cotta Chinese soldiers. I thought they did a great job with those. There were also some ACW cloth dummies running around that were a lot of fun. Second movie -- I caught most of One Night with the King last night on television. It was a big-budget, released in theaters version of the story of Queen Esther that was out this fall. Talk about a cheesy movie! Really bad script, acting, etc. But the costumes! They range from what looks half decent (to me, not knowing what Biblical Persian clothes would have looked like, but at least plausible) to just awful. I heard that it was based on a sort of Evangelical Christian romance novel, and the guy who plays King Ahaseurus/Xerxes was supposed to be a sort of tortured romantic lead. But he looked preposterous, his clothes were awful, and he was so annoying I can't imagine anyone falling in love with him. The young actor who played the Egyptian king in Night at the Museum looked a lot more authentic AND a lot more romantic. Anyway, Esther's clothes were all over the place, and a lot of them looked like artsy prom dresses. She did look Jewish though, or at least a lot more Jewish than Xerxes looked Persian. In sum, the costumes in Night at the Museum were more authentic and more attractive than the ones in One Night with the King. The movie was much better, too. I was supposed to take my daughter to see that one with some other girls and their moms, but we never found a time and I'm very glad. If I'd had to pay for it I would have wanted my money back. My daughter did go see The Nativity Story with people from church, so I was spared that. From the stills, it looked like more costume horror, though of the usual earnest thick weave, lots of knotted rags, and seams on the outside of the garment sort. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: is she pregnant?
on 12/24/06 12:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On a Mary Magdalene list, we've been discussing paintings where she looks pregnant. Of considerable discussion is this one: http://www.abcgallery.com/W/weyden/weyden37.html From what I remember of Robin's Gothic Fitted Dress info, the gown should lace closed. In this painting there is a gap. No, I don't think she is pregnant at all. Besides there being no reason for a painting of Mary Magdalene to show her pregnant (I know, I know -- but the whole Dan Brown thing is ridiculous) she just has a normal stomach, seen in many paintings of the time. I think you are right -- this is just lacing with a gap. The idea that a laced gown always has to close comes from buttoned and (later) zippered gowns. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: is she pregnant?
on 12/24/06 12:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The wonderful examples E House cited show what I mean about the painting of the Magdalene having a normal stomach. They all have it, and apparently at that time it was not considered attractive to have flat abs. This one in particular http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1484flem.jpg would be good for the Mary Magdalene list to look at. It's a saint, the one always depicted with the tower she was thrown out of (Robin, who is that? I'm drawing a blank.). Anyway, same gap and same tummy, but NOT Mary Magdalene, and not anyone able to have been married to Jesus, unless there's a new theory that he was like Zeus and had hundreds of women. Maybe I'd better not give Dan Brown et al any more ideas... Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: kyoto stays again
Bjarne: I agree that the stays look too high in the photo you posted. Could it be a poor photo? If the lady says they fit, perhaps they really do. But that is a beautiful thing you made! And your sketches of the gown are charming. I didn't know you did such lovely sketches, you should sell those!! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: gores in skirts
Elizabeth Walpole wrote: In defence of this company in particular the example we've been discussing is in their custom made section, so presumably it's a customer's design not their own. Their readymade stuff looks fairly good as does most of their custom made stuff, and they do describe the fantasy stuff as 'medieval inspired' or '15th century inspired' etc. http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/ Elizabeth Okay I couldn't resist and looked it up. Actually, this one (if it's the right one I'm looking at) says it's made to order in standard sizes, so it's not custom. And IMHO it's ugly, though not as bad as some have said. I know many people who would love it -- though they are not people who care much about accuracy. There are some really nice pieces on this site, so I would imagine these people are making a living making people what they want to buy, which is all right with me. I do wish they would say that it's not strictly accurate, which they do on some of their pieces. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: wildthangs etc.
I have Internet Explorer, and it doesn't work for me either. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: dangerous fabrics
I remember posts about lead salts or something being used to weight silk in, I think, the 1890s. I don't remember whether they are harmful to people wearing them or to the fabric itself (causing it to disintegrate). But I would search the archives for that one. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 677
I'm just finishing up a dress for my daughter. It's Italian ren, about 1490. I'd like to turn it in as an arts project but I know the judges will hassle me about using linen. I've been told that linen was only for undergarments and wasn't used for outer garments. Can any of you help me disprove that? Julie Ah, exactly why I dislike contests. I don't think you can disprove that, because I think it's true for the majority of known clothes. I would just document what would have been the correct fabric and then say I used linen because it was a preiod fabric and a better choice for my needs (and then say what those needs are). If judges hassle you about that, then they are not good judges. If they take off points, that's their job if they follow the rules. But almost anything we make today isn't period in some way or other. You should enter contests anyway, just for fun! See how you score on the other criteria. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 663
on 10/7/06 1:41 PM, Suzi wrote: Watts and Co is very, very expensive. http://www.mperkins.com/ has similar fabric but is much less expesive. I use hisa fabric a lot. Thanks for posting that site! I really enjoyed it, and even with my slow internet connection the pictures came up right away. I love those beautiful ecclesiastical fabrics... boy, that ugly 1970s cross orphry really stood out against all the other classic designs. I guess they needed something modern. Ugh! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Dancing with the Stars (US version)
Boy, is that a show of extreme clothes! Some of the outfits are lovely, and some of them are HIDEOUS. And some non-existent... we call the woman who dances with Joey Naked Girl at our house, because her clothes are little wisps of things, and (to my mind) not attractive in any way. The results show Tuesday had a funny short bit about the culture of competitive ballroom dancing, including the clothes, the hair, and the (fake) tans. I really enjoyed that. But really, I wish the women would wear more! And not just because my kids like the show. I think people just look better wearing clothes. And I can't imagine dancing in a glorified bikini. They must be glued on. Of course, I can't stand the women's sand volleyball uniforms either. Sara whatever-her-name-is, the one who is such a bad dancer, was supposed to be a sort of undead passo doble dancer, I think. My husband and I laughed all through that dance, and when it was over he reminded me that Olympic ice dancing had to ban dying at the end of the routines, because so many couples had done tragic death dances. I don't know if this one would count, though, because I think she was supposed to be dead already. But the Goth-inspired flamenco dress? Ugh!! I liked the guy's suit, though. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: bad costume movies
on 9/24/06 9:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: **That Film Whose Name Shall Not Be Uttered -- that is, the one with Mel Gibson supposedly portraying William Wallace. Oh, I thought you meant the one with what's-his-name from Dances with Wolves about Robin Hood. That's the one WE don't say. Horrible costumes, along with horrible everything else. Although they reportedly bred special historically accurate cattle... Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: tv costumes
Yesterday my 9-year-old son was fascinated by a television program based on the Gospel of John that he found when flipping around stations. I don't know what it was called or who made it (although all the actors were British, I guess that's a clue). It was on a religious station, but one that is not listed in our television guide so I can't check. I didn't care much for the program but he LOVED it. Partly a nine-year-old's omnivorousness, but partly, I think, a fascination for the exotic costumes and sets. Knowing a bit more about costumes (and acting, and theology -- geez!) I was not as impressed. Everyone wore very thick cloth with very ragged edges. The women's headdresses must have weighed a ton, I bet those actresses had headaches. Anyway, I think my son is more indicative of most people's reactions to costumes than I am. He just loved that they looked cool. It was a long time ago, so he thought it was perfectly fitting that they were dirty and ragged. Gail Finke PS: Favorite theological/costume moment in the program: After John and Peter come in the tomb and see the burial garments, they go out again and a huge bright light shines in the tomb and the two burial garments disappear into thin air!!! That is, of course, not in the Gospel at all, but it sure cuts off any discussion about the Shroud of Turin and that Veil in Germany, doesn't it? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: cotehardie pattern
MaggiRos: I don't have those Book of Hours illustrations handy, and I have never used that pattern... the reason being that I have never liked the fit in the made-up ones I've seen. How closely fit is the one on Miss June? I have had very good success with a method I made up in a fit of creative energy but with no patterns handy -- but it won't work for a very tight gown. This method works for a gown that is tighter fit than modern dresses, but not supportive enough to use without modern undergarments. I made several camp/work gowns from it, and they look very good when worn with a hood, a hip belt, and medieval shoes. Here's what I did: I decided to make a gown from all rectangles and squares. I measured the widest part of me and divided that into four. Then I added two inches for seam allowance and ease, and cut four rectangles that width by the measurement from my shoulders to the ground (plus a little for hem and seams). Have enough fabric left over for sleeves (rectangles) and gores. Next I sewed two together, so I had two rectangles. Then I cut a neck hole (just pick one from something you have that fits -- but don't forget to cut smaller so that you can hem around it). Next do the sleeves. Make the sleeves as rectangles, with the fold at the shoulder and the seam underneath -- or in the back if you prefer. Sew them to the shoulders, which you leave straight. Where the sleeve meets the side seam, sew a little square gore (is that the word?). It's not difficult to sew this as an actual square, but it's even easier to use two right-angle triangles, sewn into the right angle between the sleeve and the side seam, and then sew the sleeve from the wrist to the triangle, and then down the unfinished part of the triangle to meet the side seam. Try to use the smallest square you can -- the sleeves should be tight, unlike modern shirt sleeves, but the square should give you plenty of ease. My wedding gown, made in the 1950s, has very narrow sleeves with ease created by the same little square. From there you just pin it until it fits. If someone can help you, that's better -- but you can do it yourself too. Just baste it and try it out before you cut! Make this fit from your underarm until the widest part of your hips, if you have an hourglass figure. Otherwise use your waist -- wherever is widest. Finally, do gores for the hip (or widest spot) to the floor. You only need two, at the sides, but you can do three (add a back gore) or four (add a front) to make it luxurious and swirly. If you have to piece fabric for one or more gores, you will feel even more medieval! The gown should be fairly tight, just loose enough to slip over your head with a little difficulty. You can sew buttons up the front to mimic a fancier cotehardie. The fit depends on your skill, of course, but I have found that the look is very real -- something about all those geometric pieces. It is easy and even kind of fun to take a bunch of rectangles and make a fitted dress! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: aesthetic dress
Lovely as it may seem now, aesthetic dress was considered strange and subversive at the time. Gilbert and Sullivan had a great show (I have never seen it, unfortunately) about the aesthetic movement -- Patience; or, Bunthorne's Bride. The heroine is a young girl who thinks she can't be in love unless she's suffering, so she ignores the nice young man who loves her in favor of the Oscar Wilde-ish poet whom she can't stand. Whenever she's around him, she suffers, so she thinks she must be in love. During the operetta, all the young soldiers give up their uniforms for velvet suits and lilies, to catch the women who are swooning over poets. When I Go Out the Door is the final song describing the poet and the hero. The poet is: A most intense young man, A soulful-eyed young man, An ultra-poetical, super-aesthetical, Out-of-the-way young man! and A pallid and thin young man, A haggard and lank young man, A greenery-yallery, Grosvenor Gallery, Foot-in-the-grave young man! Of course, the aesthetic folks didn't see themselves that way. There's also a great cartoon by G.K. Chesterton called Vision in Bedford Park. I can't find it online, unfortunately, but it's in the edition of The Man Who Was Thursday published by Ignatius and annotated by Martin Gardner. It shows a pallid and thin man carrying a lily and a woman in a loose, aesthetic gown staring in shock at the shadow of a man in a respectable coat, carrying a prayer book. The caption is Bedford Parkers see a Dreadful Vision of the Future: an old acquaintance going to Church. Bedford Park was an artsy area of London where poets and the like hung out, and Chesterton was an old Bedford Parker himself, before his famous conversion, after which he preferred common sense and religious orthodoxy to aesthetic movements, atheism, and intellectual fads. But his associating aesthetic dress to these things gives you an idea of the way it was regarded. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Lillian Russell/Mae West
I read recently that studies have shown that men, despite fads in different clothes and body types, steadily prefer women who had a waist-to-hip ratio 70%. The book said that whatever the shape or age of the woman (they used photos to test this) men consistently rate the ones with the hourglass figures as attractive. This was in a new book about body language -- a best seller I saw last week at someone's house. I don't know the title. FWIW -- Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: formula for spiral lacing
Zuzana wrote: Well, I make a larger distance between the holes, at least 1inch, so if I started marking the holes from the top to the bottom, in the bottom there might be an either too small or too large distance from the center front seam. That wouldn't, I guess, look very good. So that's why I first mark the first and last hole, then measure the distance, say how many holes I want (to make approx. the distance between them I want) and calculate the exact distance between the holes. I admit, it really sounds complicated, but for me it's not and I'm sure that the last hole will be in the right place. I am not that precise. I mark them about an inch apart, and if I am too far from the seam at the bottom I smoosh them a little closer. IMHO, nobody is really checking how even the lacing holes are there. However, I am not a precise sewer. I have a friend whose every seam is absolutely perfect and I'm sure she would love your formula! Zuzana also wrote: Something I do before I start all of this: I baste a line down each edge, exactly 1/2 or 5/8 inch from the edge and parallel to it. When I mark my eyelets, my marking lines cross the basting line, forming a + . The eyelets go on those intersections. The basting helps keep the lining and the main fabric from getting off-kilter while I sew the eyelets. I remove the basting after the eyelets are sewn. ACK! Way too much work. I would never DREAM of basting a line down each edge. I mark the holes with dots, in chalk. But then, I do the eyelets by machine and sort of wing them as very short button holes (I don't have an eyelet attachment). I have only so much time to sew, and I take shortcuts when I can. But I admire precision in others! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: history channel
Well, IMHO most of the programs on The History Channel are pretty bad. They really make me appreciate PBS! Back when we got cable, my husband and I used to call THC The poor man's PBS -- not because it was cheaper to get, which it isn't because you have to pay for THC and PBS is free, but because the programs are obviously made for next to nothing. They are also usually sensationalized, at least the ones I've seen. I'm not saying there aren't any good programs on TCH, but I'd say at least half of them are cheap and poorly written. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] re: costume business
Sylvia: I don't know anything about the costume business, but I am a business owner. The first thing you should do is find out if there is a trade association for costume businesses, and contact them for information about trade practices and business valuation. If there isn't, there must be one for related businesses -- party rentals, or special event rentals. If you buy this business, JOIN THE TRADE ASSOCIATION. Next check with the Small Business Association. Does it have any programs in your area? Ours has an office and there are lots of programs to help you start in business, including one in which retired business owners and managers will talk with you about what you want to do. Finally, get this person's financial data. At the very least she should have end-of-year profit and loss statements. Don't worry if you don't know what those are (when you go into business, though, you should) -- the important thing to know now is if SHE knows what they are. If it is an all-cash business, there's not necessarily anything wrong with that, but there will be no real documentation as to how well she does, and then the value of the business should be much lower. You didn't say whether the space was involved in the sale. If there is no space you can take over the lease for, what are you going to do with thousands of costumes? Good luck -- having a business can be wonderful, but it's a lot of work. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: The Shadow
I just watched the 1994 film The Shadow with my kids. An enjoyable movie -- although Penelope Ann Miller focuses on looking gorgeous rather than acting -- and fabulous 1930s costumes and sets. P.A.M. as Margot Lane had a small but amazing wardrobe. My 9-year-old son thought she looked awful! Ha ha. Alec Baldwin, as Lamont Cranston, just looked amazing. All he had to do was stand up or turn around -- any kind of movement -- and his clothes looked fabulous! And the guy who played the villain, Something Lone, had fantastic Mongol-inspired clothes too. Are there any costume sites or books about this movie? I tried a Google search but my computer is slow and shadow brings up a whole lot of other movies and things. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 462
Kate wrote: That's nothing...in Ohio, I can visit London, Paris, Cairo, Lima, Toledo and Mantua in a day. Of course, some of them are pronounced oddly; Mantua is Man-ta-way; Lima is Ly-ma like the bean. Cairo and Paris are just wide spots in the road. Don't forget Cambridge and Oxford! Gail Finke PS: And there's Versailles Indiana (Ver-SALES) too. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: hancocks and joannes
The local Joannes here closed in March (wah! not the best fabric but at least it was close), along with another one in the city. Now there are only two left, the nearest about 1/2 hour away. But at least there is a fairly close Hancocks -- or so I thought. It's looking quite lean there, though the people who work there swear they've been told they aren't closing. Several others are. That leaves Hobby Lobby and Walmart. Blech. Gail Finke -- Cincinnati ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: knit and crochet
??? I don't understand the problem here. I can knit and crochet (and quilt and embroider), and I could both knit and crochet when I was a child. My grandmother taught me -- my mother taught me to hook rugs and needlepoint and cross stitch. This was long after polio, but I was a crafty kid (I also learned macrame and tons of other crafts). I did a couple of crocheted afghans when I was around 12, and lots of knitted scarves and things (I wasn't interested enough in knitting to learn to make sweaters). Knitting and crocheting are both very simple. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: cordwainer
The word cordwainer comes from cordovan leather, so it at least implies making shoes out of leather. I don't know what a person who makes chopines is called, but I did like chopinero! GAail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: ringling museum
Penny: You missed a wonderful museum if you missed the art museum! Two years ago on a family trip we stopped to see the mansion on the free day (Monday, BTW), and on the way out I took a peep in the museum -- WOW! Look straight in the door and there is a GIGANTIC Rubens that just knocks your socks off. Well, mine anyway. Two crying kids meant it was time to head back, but the next year I planned an art museum trip! I expected a small collection, but it's really wonderful. The Rubens is from a whole series of cartoons he did for a set of tapestries about the Eucharist prefigured in the Old Testament. I think the set is called The Triumph of the Eucharist. There is one tapestry, which I thought was rather ugly, but there are about a half a dozen of these throw away cartoons, which are gorgeous paintings done on paper instead of canvas. There are rooms of medieval and renaissance stuff, and all sorts of other wonderful things. The funniest part was the descriptions of religious paintings. They were all written as if by someone faintly surprised at the whole idea of religious painting, and definitely someone who couldn't imagine that they had any religious significance NOW. People used to think, people then believed, etc. etc. The catalogue on the Triumph of the Eucharist is even worse. But it's a great museum and there are lots of pictures and sculptures that are of interest to this list's readers, being different from those you usually see. I didn't see the circus museum, though! That was supposed to be this year, but we aren't going :-( Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 358
Sharon wrote: Now, admittedly, it would help a lot with this if movie makers would stop lying to their audiences by making false claims about the accuracy of their films. Personally, I'm not holding my breath on this, as unscrupulous movie makers show no signs of giving up lying about this or any other matter. I agree, that's not going to happen, especially when people become millionares by claiming that the preposterous -- which would otherwise be a fun alternate history -- is true. Like . . . Dan Brown and The DaVinci Code, for instance. A bunch of crap from beginning to end (oops, did I open a can of worms?) to anyone who knows ANYTHING about history, art, theology, etc. Again, claim it's fiction and who cares? But claim it's true and -- !!! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 350
Sharon wrote: So anachronism, especially deliberate anachronism, in movies is fine with me as long as the movie isn't trying to fool people into believing it isn't anachronism -- I'll take A Knight's Tale and Shakespeare In Love over Elizabeth or That Film Whose Name Shall Not Be Uttered any day! Hear hear! I love A Knight's Tale, and the thing I love the most is that the STORY is pretty close to medieval. William gets to be a knight at the end, he doesn't decided that we are all knights in our hearts, or something stupid like that. The lady he loves says she would marry him and live in a hut with pigs, and he tells her she doesn't know what she's talking about. Etc. The ananchronisms are to help people understand the medieval story. It doesn't change history and pretend to be accurate, or give characters stupid pop-psych reasons for their actions (my mom died and my dad married a peasant -- angst, angst!). Once I got over the shock, I thought the costumes were a fun meld of medieval and modern, and I enjoyed seeing the influences. My favorite anachronistic moment was when Adhemar is off fighting and he gets the results of the tournaments -- a big pile of illuminated documents -- like the sports section of the morning newspaper. Marie Antoinette sounds rather interesting. I will keep an open mind. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 351
Sharon wrote: No, the other Mel Gibson Scottish film. I always thought The Film Whose Name Shall Not Be Uttered was the one with the title ending Prince of Thieves. Around here, anyway. Sorry if I caused any palpitations by writing even that much of it-- Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Curtains
Sue wrote: Oh, mansuddenly, I'm overcome with the memory of watching a particular Carol Burnett sketch, many years ago (For those of you on other shores who may not be familiar with her, Carol is an *amazingly funny* American comedian, who used to have a sort of variety show on t.v., with a wonderful ensemble cast. At one point, they did a Gone with the Wind sendup, and Carol wore a spoof of Scarlett's curtain outfitcomplete with curtain rod sticking out past her shoulder blades) And then she said, I saw it in a window and I just couldn't resist. HA HA HA HA HA Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: bliaut
Derdere: It looks great in the photo. Also, although I don't read Dutch, I had no trouble following the site and understanding what you did. I do have one practical question. The silk you used seems to be very light. Do you think that the bliauts of the time were made of such light silk? Would it have been warm enough for clothing when there was no central heating? Is the skirt heavy enough to stay down, or does it float up? But I am not criticizing! It looks great, and you look great in it! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: waistcoat closing
Bjarne: I don't know if that was a correct construction or not, but wow!!! It is gorgeous. And I love the giant jeweled buttons on the coat. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: arsenic
It does stay in the body, that's how they test for it. I read a murder mystery once based on the idea that if you feed someone small bits of arsenic every day, they die if you withhold it! I don't know if that one is true or not. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: monk underwear
In latin: (for those who don't trust translations :-) Femoralia hi qui in via diriguntur de vestario accipiant, quae revertentes lota ibi restituant. Et cucullae et tunicae sint aliquanto a solio quas habent modice meliores; quas exeuntes in via accipiant de vestario et revertentes restituant. And in English: Brothers going on a journey should get underclothing from the wardrobe. On their return they are to wash it and give it back. Their cowls and tunics, too, ought to be somewhat better than those they ordinarily wear. Let them get these from the wardrobe before departing, and on returning put them back. Wow! And I thought Wear clean underwear without holes in case you get in a car crash and have to go to the hospital was a NEW sensibility! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: European ancestors
My family is mostly Irish, though you can't tell by my name. My brother and I don't look very Irish, but my father's family certainly does. I grew up in Pittsburgh, where there is a very large Polish population. So we always fit in pretty well with the short, dark-haired Poles. Now I live in Cincinnati, which has a huge German-ancestry population. Everyone is tall and blonde, and here I am -- little and dark-haired. My husband's family is all tall and blonde. When we visit Pittsburgh, my husband always says he feels a head taller than everyone else, though here in Cincinnati he feels just average. My parents have moved, and when we attend the church closest to their house, it's usually full of another short, dark-haired group -- Italians. My husband calls it the Mafia Church, which may actually be true. There is quite a bit of Mafia in Pittsburgh. There was a little Italian restaurant a few miles from the house I grew up in that was reputed to be popular with the Mafia, and one of my high school friends used to bartend at Mafia weddings (other weddings too, of course). One of my former bosses here in Cincinnati used to think I made the Mafia stuff up. She didn't believe there really WAS a Mafia anymore! Costume content: None, really. Although I hear that because of the Polish population now being more prosperous, ridiculously expensive First Communion dresses are now popular. A store near my parents' house, the kind that sells $300 Christmas dresses for 8-year-old girls, now stocks similar First Communion dresses. I made my daughter's dress, but the girls in her First Communion class generally had the $30-$60 department store variety. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: soiredhiver
Bjarne: These pictures are lovely, and how nice to see so many of you! I am curious about the event. Are you all in the same Society? How do you know each other? Are you from different countries, and if so what language(s) do you speak when you are all together? That military uniform (I think it is one) is just so gorgeous! And the picture of you dancing with the girl in red -- she looks so perfect. It must have been a wonderful weekend. Who cooked? Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: petrol blue suit
Bjarne: Wow! 100% silk! It looks so good in the pictures, it must have been amazing in real life. What a wonderful time you must have had. If I ever recreated that time period, I would have to be a servant! I would want everything to be perfect, not just like the real thing. But I think I could deal with that! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: body shaping (was corset myth)
Elena House wrote: The whole garment is a solution to a specific body-shaping problem; a problem which has been solved in different ways over the centuries, and which must be solved in different ways the desired body shape changes over time. In the 13thC, the solution was breast-wrapping; in the 14th, it was the GFD; in the 15th, it was both a later version of the GFD and an early version of the bodice-skirt kirtle; in the early 16th, it was the vasquine and farthingale; in the late 16th, it was the payre of bodyes and farthingale. Both your replies to the original query were fascinating! I loved all the quotes. But now I am interested in a different item listed above. When you say that in the 13th century the solution to desired body shaping was breast wrapping, what exactly do you mean? I'm sure they did something, but I am not familiar with this. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 185
Janet wrote: While my S.O. was wearing knee length t-tunics before I ever met him, he won't wear hose on a bet. However, weight gain plus an unwillingness to buy new clothes made me realize that, as long as his footwear covers the ankle, sweatpants in a size or two too small make a good substitute. They definitely look better than modern dance tights and most sweat pants stretch enough that they're not uncomfortable. Of course, the shopper has to be vigilant to avoid stripes and logos and strange looking fabrics but a man won't see anything unusual about wearing sweatpants, even if they do cling to legs and butt. My husband is a knight in the SCA, and has a kingdom award for authenticity. But one of his tricks is the special fighting hose he makes. He takes a pair of sweatpants and cuts off the legs at about mid-thigh level. Then he makes hosen out of bias-cut sweatpant-type material. He made the pattern for these himself, basing them on hose patterns and fitting them to his legs. He cuts the top of the hose legs so that they come to a point on the front of his thighs, and then he sews these to the sweatpant tops. They look like hose over colored breeches (white gets too dirty), but they fit like sweatpants and are much easier to make than wool hose. They even look good with a shirt or tunic. Just an idea for y'all! Oh -- yes, these are footed. Not that difficult to do, and then they are tight under boots or shoes. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: home sewing
It may be cheaper to buy clothes at Walmart than it is to make them, but not everyone shops at Walmart. Political discussions aside -- there are plenty of other places to buy clothes, and some of them cost big bucks. You can make a Vogue garment for a lot less than it costs to buy some clothes, or for the same price but in exactly the fabric you want. That said, I don't sew my clothes. Who has the time??? But last weekend I made my family flannel pajama pants (lounge pants). These truly are a garment you can buy cheaper than you can sew, but our Joanne's is going out of business (wah!) and all the flannel was 60% off. No buys on good fabric -- this Joanne's rarely had any to begin with. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: olympics
I am watching plain old NBC, so I haven't seen any curling. But the ice dancing costumes are hilarious! Some of them seem to have things stuck all over them. Some of the women's costumes are cut away in very strange places. Last night I came in the middle of one team with very nice costumes -- I particularly liked the man's, which was a sort of burgundy costume and had a giant cross embroidered on the back of it. My husband and I were trying to figure out what the dance was supposed to be about, and the announcers both remarked that the costumes told the story, and it was nice to see a dance that was so easy to interpret! Our guess was Romeo and Juliet, because she had a sort of Juliet cap on and they seemed to both die at the end. But I never was certain. My favorite outfits are the snowboarding ones, they are just too funny. Someone went to a LOT of trouble to design bulky skiing clothes that could hang off people's bottoms just like sweat pants!! And a lot of them have pinstripes, which is another fun touch. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: opera dvds
Boy, I would love to see some good Gilbert and Sullivan DVDs. I love the operettas, but all the recordings are so... blah. Years ago, when the BBC did them all, my Public Television station broadcast them -- and only The Mikado was worth watching. How anyone can drain the sparkling energy from a GS show is beyond me, but they did. I am going to check out all the recommended DVDs. I love opera, but I have found that many filmed versions are just as dull as the GS ones listed above. And I can't stand listening to recordings of any I haven't seen. (I can't stand any by Richard Strauss, but that's another story!) To return to an actual question for the list -- 12 years ago I was lucky enough to get tickets to an English National Opera production of The Barber of Seville. The costumes were amazing (that's when I really got how dashing men's 1700s clothes could be) and I discovered the joys of listening to operas in English. You get the jokes! The sad parts are sad when they're supposed to be! I could never get VHS tapes of any of the performances because English VHS doesn't play here in the US. But DVDs do, right? Or are they like VHS tapes? If they do play here, does anyone have any English National Opera recommendations? Gail Finke PS for Fran: The Stratford Festival in Canada does a Gilbert Sullivan every year. Perhaps they have some good recordings. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: BHO series
Becky wrote: Try watching the latest series on HBO or Cimemax, Called Ceasar. It's great. It portrays all the nasty things people think but pretend don't happen in society. Just proves that nothing is new, even sexual orientation, seduction, powergrabs and political arrangements through sex. You thought any of that was new? :-) Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: lego troubles
Bjarne wrote: Kids dont want to play with brigs anymore, they want to play on computers. Company didnt realise this and almost broke now! Tell that to my kids! We have a cabinet full of Lego bricks. And we also get the bimonthly Lego magazine. And we also have the Lego Star Wars GameCube game. Have you seen this? It is fantastic. It is the entire Star Wars saga, in Lego. You get to play whatever part you want, and whenever you shoot something or hit it with your lightsabre, it breaks up into Lego pieces! We love Lego here, and we do not have a large toy budget. Our Lego investment is probably the largest toy investment we have made. Gail Finke Obligatory costume content: Do you know that Lego people now have little fabric capes? They are for knights, Hogwarts students, etc. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: morse
It looks like morse is the correct term. I contacted a vestment company and they wrote back to me: I don't know, how about cope closure? Ha ha. Gail ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re:John Burbridge dolls
Katy posted: http://www.lespetitesdamesdemode.com/ Wow! Those are amazing. It says on the site that John Burbridge is the senior designer for Priscilla of Boston, a wedding gown company. That is the kind of historically inspired design that I, as a consumer, appreciate. (Although I could never have afforded a Priscilla of Boston wedding gown.) How wonderful that he is able to learn about and recreate historic fashions with his dolls, and design and sell new fashion with the company. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: knit stockings and bjarne
Bjarne wrote: I know i should have praktised a little more, but even i can embroider on a long time projekt, my nerves cant hold to waite to make the dolls myself, till they gets pretty enough for me. I am only human and i have many limits. I had to give up knitting stockings for reenacting two, my fingers are two clumsy. When i finally had made a nice work, i dropped a whole pin, and lots of stitches..sigh This is why i ended up with having to cut out of flat material and sew my stockings this way. But Bjarne, knitting those stockings used to be a profession! You have already mastered several other professions -- tailoring and embroidery. How many professions can one person have??? Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: the virgin queen
Blech! The little bits of costume that I could see all look awful. And Tara Fitzgerald, to me, has never looked anything but twentieth-century no matter what she's wearing. At least we finally know the answer to what happens to costume design -- they do tons of research and then cast it all aside. Ha ha! And I just love the idea that men in the actual lower garments of the time would have looked ridiculous to today's audiences. Have any costume designer looked at young men's falling-down pants lately? The word ridiculous comes to mind. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: feminine protection
Caroline wrote: If you are pregnant or breastfeeding you are unlikely to have monthly cycles. Admitted women who are not sexually active won't be pregnant much but once you take nuns out of the equasion most women wouldn't need sanitary protection much during their life. This is not exactly true. Number one, there were thousand of nuns throughout the period (ha ha) we are discussing. Number two, there were thousands of other unmarried women, women whose husbands were away for years at a time (sailors, crusaders, and traveling merchants come to mind), barren women or women with impotent husbands, and widows. Number three (I know this from experience), breastfeeding tends to suppress menstruation, but it doesn't for everyone, at least not for the same amount of time. So that leaves out a considerable number of women. It doesn't follow at all that most women wouldn't need sanitary protection much during their life. But even if that were true, they would still need it sometimes, so they must have had established ways of taking care of it. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: twice-turned
Nancy: If I recall my Louisa May Alcott years correctly, a turned dress was one that had been taken apart and put back together with the fabric that used to be on the inside now on the outside, so that it did not look as worn or stained. So I guess a twice-turned dress was on that had been taken apart and put back together a second time. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: costume gallery
Penny: Thanks for that long and detailed explanation. It makes perfect sense that, if your user's primary goal is to get an idea of what the clothes and trims looked like, you would fix up the old engravings rather than redraw them. It's just a different emphasis. I know only a little bit about computer retouching, but I think I know enough to understand how much work is involved. Wow, you all work VERY hard. And you certainly have my sympathies for explaining to ebay sellers that entire old books/collections are important to someone, not just the pictures. Many people don't understand that, and so many great old books/magazines/etc. are destroyed because of it. I think what you do is a wonderful, and I hope you and your workers are proud of your accomplishment! Gail ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: costume gallery
Penny: Thanks for sharing all your thoughts about how and why you do so much to your materials. I know what you mean about pages in Acrobat -- they can be a real bear to read, and personally I never touch anything on a website that has to be read in Acrobat, if I can possibly help it. But I do have a question about the work you do to the images, one that I thought others on the list might be interested in also. I wouldn't call what you do restoring the images, but retouching or even redoing the images. The example your web site shows, for instance, explains quite clearly that the *originals* were poorly colored. So changing the color is not restoring, it's redoing. Redoing is a fine goal, but it's a completely different goal. I wondered why you chose to do this in what is in many ways a scholorly venue, where many users (I would think) would be interested in seeing the originals. Or are most of your users not particularly interested in that? I don't mean any criticism of your amazing accomplishment! I am just curious. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: memling book
Has anyone seen the book Memling's Portraits? It's a catalogue of an exhibit at the Frick Museum, which I just heard about today. Today is the last day of the show, which is a traveling exhibit of 30 Memling portraits making its only US stop. The Frick's website lists the book in its shop section, but doesn't say how much it is. There are about 8 or 9 images of the portraits on the site. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: gambeson question
My husband has numerous gambesons/jacks/arming coats/whatever you want to call them. I am not a fan of the Period Patterns pattern, but it works and looks fine, and is a good place to start if you don't want to draft a pattern. My husband likes a much more fitted look, more like the Charles le Blois pourpoint, but the construction methods are similar: He draws the pieces he wants on the fabric, along with the quilting lines, and then cuts a generous (2 inches at least) around that. He quilts on the machine, using regular polyester quilt batting. This causes the pieces to shrink a bit, which is why you need all the extra fabric. He does not bother washing any of the pieces after quilting, but assembles and finishes them. As far as fabric goes, he has used all sorts, but usually uses cotton Trigger (which comes in bright, heraldic colors and is pretty durable). He wants to make one that's brocade on the outside, and he has the fabric, but he hasn't gotten around to making it yet. The last one he made is quartered and painted in various heraldic charges -- very nice looking! I don't think your friend's plan to use this as a stage costume is a good idea. Gambesons get very dirty, and they often rip from repeated sword blows and (more likely) wear from armor. They are not beautiful garments for long, even if they start out that way! It is much better to wear a fine wool, brocade, or painted coat over the gambeson and armor. That takes a lot of wear, too, but it will not get as smelly or ripped, so it is worth more time, money, and effort. That has been our experience. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: unemployed philosopher's guild
Our art museum sells quite a bit of their products. I bought my brother a Freudian Sips coffee mug and a Freud finger puppet -- he comes with a couch finger puppet, which has a pop-up lady's head (for the patient's mother, who of course is behind all mental problems). My brother and his wife are both psychologists -- I bet their dinner conversation is fun! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] narnia movie
Okay, so who saw The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe this weekend??? The kids' 40s costumes looked good to me. The king and queen costumes at the end -- blech. There was a lot of great armour, and some really beautiful tents. Susan's first Narnia dress was particularly nice, the other kids' clothes passable. But what the heck was the White Witch wearing at the beginning? Some sort of prom dress gone bad, and I don't even know how to DESCRIBE what was going on with the shoulders. She eventually changed clothes, thank goodness. This is not a costume snob's description, either -- my 11-year-old daughter could not stop talking about how ugly it was. Plus she had dreadlocks, which look a bit weird on a blonde Englishwoman. I guess she turned all her hairdressers to stone. We enjoyed the movie immensely, despite quibbles about costume and other things. It was a lot of fun, very enjoyable. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] re: pennsylvania charity guy
michael tartaglio wrote: Hi, All. I just saw a telly program on a fellow from Pennsylvania (US) that is the guru for used fabrics. He started out by convincing the mill that he worked at that they should give him the scraps they would throw out. Now folks send him stuff and he sends it out to anyone who wants it. Folks make quilts for charities with his stashes. I don't remember his name or what his website is called, but the show was on local public TV (WHYY Philadelphia/Wilmington) The show was called Pennsylvania Quilts and is pretty good. The man Michael mentioned, though, no longer collects fabric. He used to get waste from mills and distribute it for free, but now he is disabled and there are no more mills where he lives. But it was an inspirational story nevertheless, one of several about quilters of various kinds and types (family quilters, Amish quilters, art quilters, etc.) in the state. Gail finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: disposing of fabric
I echo everyone else's suggestions about places to donate fabric you can't use. But don't forget -- if it's really fabric that NO ONE wants (or, for that matter, ripped old clothes and things like that) then both Goodwill and the Salvation Army sell fabric scrap. So never throw anything fabric away! Give it where it will be used, even scrap is reusing. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: bjarne's sleeves
Bjarne: Those sleeves are so perfectly sweet! I wish that just once in my life I could wear such a beautiful thing. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: christmas movies
My favorite is Miracle on 34th Street, although this year I am revisiting my childhood and watching all my favorite holiday specials with my children, who are really enjoying them. Last night was Santa Claus is Coming to Town. Earlier this week it was Rudolf. And coming up are Frosty, A Charlie Brown Christmas, and How the Grinch Stole Christmas. No costume content here. My daughter is begging me to buy her White Christmas, which I've never seen. Gail Finke PS: I remember the first time I saw Meet Me In St. Louis. I was so shocked by the Christmas song -- it was so sad!!! I can't hear it without thinking of the movie. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: clothes pins
Clothes pins were invented by the Shakers in America. Or so they claim. One of their many cool and designy contibutions. I guess that would have been in the early 1800s. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: speaking of Pocahontas
My newspaper today gave a little blurb about all the upcoming films, and said that the new Pocahontas movie was about the doomed love between John Smith and Pocahontas. Sigh. And of course the BIG film coming up is Memoirs of a Geisha, which screwed up the portrayal of the way geisha behaved so much that the leading geisha of the century had to insist on many occasions that the character is NOT based on her. Plus, she's played by a Chinese actress. I guess the film people decided that as far as Western audiences are concerned, a Chinese woman is no different from a Japanese woman! At least the costumes look good in that one. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: costume in general
AlbertCat wrote: So what's you're point? My point is exactly what I said: If you're going to do a rare performance but do it in an unusual style, then tell people. That way people know what they're getting into. I, personally, don't like bizarre and modern costumes. But if I know I am going to see them, it's up to me whether or not to pay the ticket price. I am not against creative staging -- but I have seen a lot of awful (in my opinion) things done in the name of creativity. And, you're right, a lot of awful traditional productions. I try to check reviews of productions ahead of time, but that's not always possible -- sometimes you have to buy the tickets far in advance. Theater people have a lot of fun with creative casting, costuming, staging, and even totally changing the point of various plays. But the audience is supposed to enjoy the production, too. If we audience members are supposed to respect the work and vision going into a production, and to try things that are different from what we expect, it's only right for the theater company to respect the audience's opinion if they hate it. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: theater costumes in general
I don't think I've EVER seen a Shakespear play (and I've seen a lot of them) done in Elizabethan costume. No wait -- I've seen one. I've seen a lot of wonderful productions set in many different times. That goes for other old plays and operas too. But Bjarne asked about modern and artistic costumes, and that's different. I'm with you, Bjarne! I hate that kind of thing. It's rarely done well, and it usually distracts from the performance. If a production is going to be done in some sort of avant-garde style, the company owes it to the public to make it clear in the advertisements, etc. Many people really do go see a production, especially if it's a rarely done production, to get at least a feeling of what it was like back then. If you're going to deliver something else, at least tell people! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: pottery barn (was eterna silk)
Come on guys, Pottery Barn isn't all that it's cracked up to be, unless you like pretty but overpriced things. Now I am lucky in that there is a Pottery Barn factory outlet about an hour and half away. Most of the stuff is STILL overpriced, even the damaged stuff. But if you're not picky they always have some give-aways. I got a great kitchen clock there for $15, and a $95 kitchen garbage can (like I would pay nearly $100 for my garbage!) for $30. I have just been to the Frontgate/Ballard Design outlet that's in a suburb about 40 miles away. Makes the Pottery Barn outlet look cheap. Stuff that was seriously damaged was STILL hundreds of dollars! Obviously I am not the target market for these stores. I like nice things, and well-designed things. But if I bought that kind of stuff, I wouldn't have anything left over for books and fabric! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: puffed sleeves
Okay, I know what leg o'mutton sleeves are, but I was under the impression that these were something different. Can't say why, exactly. But I thought this was a little girl's style or variation of some kind, not a generic 1890s style. Am I totally off-base? Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: current fashions
I heard a bit on the radio today about a web site for a fantasy fashion league, like fantasy football and fantasy baseball, but for fashion fans. It's way too big for my dial-up connection, but it sounded funny. There's a fee, and I missed what the teams actually do, but they seem to be competing some way. Anyway, I thought Penny and some of you fashion fans would enjoy it! www.fantasyfashionleague.com Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: benetton
Cathy Raymond wrote: Interesting. The Benetton store near my office in Philadelphia does have ladies' dress jackets, though that may simply be an accommodation to the American market. I was talking about their first attempt at American stores. I don't know what they have now. I have *not* been impressed with the quality of the merchandise I've seen in their Philadelphia store. Reasonably good construction, but most of the garments--even the sweaters--seem very thin. I bought several Benetton sweaters last winter on sale. Although they are attractive and comfortable, if I wore them as often as I wear some of my work sweaters, they'd barely last one season before wearing through at the elbows. Well then, I guess they adapted to the American market! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 617
Kimiko wrote: Read _The Cult of Elizabeth_ by Roy Strong (isbn 0-7126-6481-5) That's exactly what Strong suggests was done, since the Catholic faith was no longer the state faith. It's a lot more complicated it would seem than that, but Elizabeth became an icon for her people. It just didn't happen overnight, however. Well, it's good to know it had SOME context. But still, the way it was portrayed in the movie -- I just had to laugh! Not appreciated by the whole audience, I know, but I like to hope there was at least one person who was silently giggling. I've never read Roy Strong. Of course Elizabeth became an icon, but I don't think she just looked at a statue and decided to slop on some white makeup! And that's pretty much what the movie said. I remember, at the time the movie came out, someone on this list posted how silly it was that Elizabeth wouldn't have known that her lover was married. (I forget his name -- sudden blank mind.) And of course, it was ridiculous. The whole movie was ridiculous. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 617
Penny wrote: We want everything fast and then throw it away in a short amount of time. We are all guilty of throw it away instead of repairing products. Mass production makes it so much cheaper to purchase a new product instead of repairing. This is not true in Europe, or at least it wasn't 10 years ago when I wrote an article about Benneton for a retail magazine. The company had opened US stores, but they failed miserably. They were trying to redo the stores, and the person in charge told me that the company had misunderstood the American market. Benneton sweaters, she told me, were considered middle-priced clothing in Europe, while here they were considered expensive (they were about $80 on sale then). The company was not geared to a wear it for a year or two and get rid of it mentality. They expected people to keep their Benneton clothes for a long time. She also explained that Benneton did not have any ladies' dress jackets, and that this was a staple of American women's work wardrobes (dress blouse, dress skirts, and dress jackets, all of them mix and match). She said that in Europe, women wore a lot more dresses to work, and a lot more matching suits. Benneton was designed for people who have fewer, nicer clothes, and who keep them longer. It could not compete as it was with the American market for a LOT of less expensive clothes. I don't know what it's like now... Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: jeans
Julie wrote: Remember bell bottoms? A co-worker of mine swears that they are back, but I can't find any. I was at the Chicago Gap store last week, and they certainly didn't have any there. Darn. I love bellbottoms! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Mary of Guise
Oh, that was a fun part. And how about when Elizabeth was shot at while in her boat on a party on the river, and no one bothered to look for who did it? As a Catholic, of course I was bemused by the very idea of Elizabeth wearing white makeup and deciding never to marry in order to give England a new Virgin Mary -- surrounded by weeping serving maids, no less! But the very best part, IMHO: THE POISONED DRESS. That movie had so little to do with reality that the fun part was finding what was really true! But the people who made it had no business touting its accuracy. I agree with everyone else who said that was the real problem, and it's a pretty big problem. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: the 20th century
T-shirts and jeans. After centuries of even peasant and workman's wear being somewhat formal to our taste (think of barbers, printers, and butchers in the late 1800s and early 1900s with white shirts, jackets, and ties), these garments became nearly universal in the west, with all sorts of fancy versions (designer jeans, silk t-shirts with women's suits, etc.). And sweaters (jumpers, for our European friends), which seem to have been sort of regional folk garments in the past. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Santa Claus
Kate Pinner wrote: 1822 -- Clement Moore -- A Visit From Saint Nicholas. This supposedly gave us the first picture of how he was dressed (a picture in words). The newspaper/magazine artists took it from there. But the poem says He was dressed all in fur from his head to his foot/And his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot. That's not a red suit with gleaming white fur by a longshot. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: katrina update
I don't see any recent posts, so I wanted to tell everyone who read Penny's long email yesterday that at 6 pm ABC News did a short piece on the town named for her ancestor, Pass Christian. Penny said that no one had been able to get to it and that it wasn't the sort of place that was shown on television. According to the reporter, Pass Christian was directly in the path of the storm and there is nothing left of it. This is such a horrible tragedy for our country, I can't even imagine how many people have no homes anymore. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: clarissa
I haven't seen the film, but I actually do know someone who read the whole book. She liked it. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: clarissa
Fran wrote: Encouraging--did she read the full or the abridged (a mere 700 pages) edition? The whole thing, baby!! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: linen blends
on 8/1/05 11:49 PM, kahlara wrote: I also have a question about linens - specifically the blended and synthetic ones. What sort of successes/failures have been experienced with these fabrics? The local Joann's often has them in 'suit weight' for less than $2.00 a yard and I was thinking this might be good for a first effort at a sideless surcotte. I've used these a lot for SCA gowns, and I always thought they were okay -- until I made things out of pure linen and pure wool. Now I think they stink. They are not stable -- they change shape while you are sewing them, even if you are good and iron them every step of the way. And they creep in the sewing machine. Pieces that start off the same shape don't end up that way by the time you finish the end of a seam. I was amazed at how pure linen and pure wool just stay put, even on the bias (cross)! And if you think linen wrinkles -- they wrinkle too, but they are floppier. On they other hand, they look pretty good and they are cheap. I still have some left and I do plan to use it. But next time I will starch everthing as I sew in hopes that it stays put a bit. If you just want something to wear and price is important, then buy it and expect a harder time sewing. It'll look fine. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: suggestions for london
The first time I went to London, my parents insisted that I promise to see the Crown Jewels. Not much interested in jewelry, I balked -- but then I figured I was going to the Tower anyway, so why not? Go. See the Crown Jewels. They are unbelievable, and this from (again) someone not much interested in jewels or jewelry. Get there early before there's a huge line. As far as non-costume things go, I recommend Canterbury. It's a good day trip, and a lovely medieval town. And then you can wear a pilgrim medal! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 454
Does anyone else find a man in a well-fitted suit drop-dead sexy? Rarr! Oh my, yes! For our wedding 17 years ago, all the men in the party wore pearl gray tailcoats. I loved the color at the time, though it is very dated now. As someone who loves historic costume, that doesn't bother me. Anyway, one of the men in the party was very overweight, and he looked gorgeous in his tux. It wasn't even fitted! Just a rental. I wish men would wear them all the time. I really got to appreciate suits when I worked in the Pennsylvania Capital building for a summer internship. Many of the lobbyists wore very expensive, tailored suits. And there is nothing anonymous looking about them! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: veils
Here's what I do to get veils to stay in place. I have a little square white cloth which I fold in half to make a sort of kerchief. On the corners, I sewed white ties. This looks like the kind of little fashionable scarves or kerchiefs teen girls wear. I suppose you could use one of those, but they're generally bright and patterned. I put the folded edge of this kerchief over my forehead. Then I pull the ties back behind my neck, cross them, and tie them either at the back of my neck (if the veil is sheer) or on the top of my head (if I'm wearing a hat that needs anchoring). The kerchief is just big enough that the back point comes to the nape of my neck, and that gets tucked into the cords/ties. I hope that makes sense. I got this idea from the Elizabethan forehead cloth. It works for me because I have very short hair and it keeps the bangs hidden, it is a nice anchor for a coronet or circlet, and it is something for the veil pins to stick to. And also, it's a lot easier to make than a cap. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
