Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[Ruth Anne Baumgartner]

Since this is just for a musical performance (long-distance viewing)  
and authenticity isn't a major priority, I'd bind the bottom edges of  
the breeches legs with a 1" band, but instead of overlapping the band  
for buttoning or otherwise putting on an inflexible fastening, I'd  
back the gap with 1" elastic (choose white or black to blend with the  
stockings, or even take a magic marker to it if the stockings are a  
color) and stitch a button midway on the elastic, at the gap. That  
way he has a snug closure for the leg when standing, but one that  
will give when he sits. (you might want a gusset on the seam inside,  
to conceal a flash of bare leg if the stockings don't come up much  
past the band when he sits. The elastic will also enhance the garter  
effect of the leg binding, to help the stockings stay up.


--Ruth Anne Baumgartner
scholar gypsy and amateur costumer

On Sep 1, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Robin Netherton wrote:


On 9/1/2010 12:55 PM, albert...@aol.com wrote:

When you write it down like this, it all seems so complicated, but  
it's not.


No, it's perfect, I got it on first reading. Thanks.

I'd see what kind of tights you can find in the women's dept for  
covering the calves. They stay up, and some even look like ribbed  
socks. Make sure they aren't sheer


It's still pretty hot out here, and I'd think tights would not only  
be hot, but be uncomfortable for a teenaged boy who's never worn  
them! I'll give kneesocks a try and see if they stay up --  
particularly if I can get them long enough to go over the knee. And  
then tights if necessary.


You might find some moccasins with the bedroom shoes in the men's  
dept.


Oh, good idea. Thanks for all!

--Robin
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[Ann Catelli]

1830s/Federalist America at Old Sturbridge Village:  

A created village of actual buildings in Sturbridge MA, with some costumed 
interpreters, bred-back sheep, etc.

Ann in CT

--- On Wed, 9/1/10, Robin Netherton  wrote:

> good images online because
> the "costume" sources all seem to focus on East Coast
> "Colonial" or all-leather "Daniel Boone" styles with not
> much in between. 
> 
> --Robin


  
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[Carol Kocian]

Hi Robin,

 If he's working class, long trousers would be fine. I  
understand going with breeches since that reads more as a historic  
costume.


 Stockings: get black stockings and black shoes. I know in the  
1770s, servants wore colored stockings. Possibly they looked cleaner  
than white. :-)


 If you have black shoes and black stockings, neither will be  
emphasized so you don't have to worry so much about them being good.


 I think the neckstock is a great idea, and that way you don't  
have to worry at all about the collar on the shirt. I don't agree  
about a mandarin collar, since shirts of the time had collars. But  
it's moot if he has a neck stock.  :-)


 -Carol


On Sep 1, 2010, at 12:07 PM, Robin Netherton wrote:

This is all really useful! I've been having a terrible time finding  
good images online because the "costume" sources all seem to focus  
on East Coast "Colonial" or all-leather "Daniel Boone" styles with  
not much in between. I will need to take time for a slow perusal  
through art and such, but time is just what I don't have right now.


Great idea from Denise about a mandarin collared shirt, which may  
save me the trouble of making new. (I hate sewing for a growing boy  
who will outgrow it before the next year's event!) Goodwill, here I  
come.


A look at photos from previous events at the site in question shows  
lots of breeches like Albert described. I can modify a pair of my  
kid's outgrown khaki pants for these. A couple of questions for  
those of you who've done it: First, how low do I cut them off? I'm  
thinking below the knee, maybe by a couple of inches; he'll need to  
be sitting when he performs and needs freedom of movement, and I  
don't want them binding at the knee when he bends his leg. Second,  
how best to fasten the band at the bottom of the pants leg? With a  
button (what type?) or something else?


I'm thinking on the line of girls' plain white kneesocks to cover  
the calf, unless someone tells me otherwise. Shoes, I'm probably  
stuck with the black athletics unless there are moccasins or boots  
in the right size at Goodwill, but I can get away with the shoes;  
any attempt at costume will be welcome, and it's not a strict re- 
enactment.


--Robin


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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[costumrs]

Check a western store/outdoor outfitter.  They might have moccasins.
Sandy

-Original Message-
>From: Robin Netherton 
>Sent: Sep 1, 2010 1:51 PM
>To: Historical Costume 
>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, 
>US Midwest
>
>On 9/1/2010 11:20 AM, Kathryn Pinner wrote:
>> White soccer socks will fit him better than girls knee socks and will stay 
>> up better.  Even loafers or docksiders (or slippers) are better than 
>> athletic shoes
>
>Brilliant on all counts, thanks!
>
>--Robin
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[Audrey Bergeron-Morin]

>
>  It's still pretty hot out here, and I'd think tights would not only be
>> hot, but be uncomfortable for a teenaged boy who's never worn them! I'll
>> give kneesocks a try and see if they stay up -- particularly if I can get
>> them long enough to go over the knee. And then tights if necessary.
>
>
For the record, I lent my own over-the-knee socks to my boyfriend a couple
of times to wear with knee breeches. They work fine, especially if the band
of the breeches goes over the socks and is tight enough to hold them in
place.
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[Robin Netherton]

On 9/1/2010 11:20 AM, Kathryn Pinner wrote:

White soccer socks will fit him better than girls knee socks and will stay up 
better.  Even loafers or docksiders (or slippers) are better than athletic shoes


Brilliant on all counts, thanks!

--Robin
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[Robin Netherton]

On 9/1/2010 12:55 PM, albert...@aol.com wrote:


When you write it down like this, it all seems so complicated, but it's not.


No, it's perfect, I got it on first reading. Thanks.


I'd see what kind of tights you can find in the women's dept for covering the 
calves. They stay up, and some even look like ribbed socks. Make sure they 
aren't sheer


It's still pretty hot out here, and I'd think tights would not only be hot, 
but be uncomfortable for a teenaged boy who's never worn them! I'll give 
kneesocks a try and see if they stay up -- particularly if I can get them long 
enough to go over the knee. And then tights if necessary.



You might find some moccasins with the bedroom shoes in the men's dept.


Oh, good idea. Thanks for all!

--Robin
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[albertcat]

It also occurs to me that while you're at Goodwill, you might find a man's 
waistcoat (might have to get the whole suit) that you can quickly take up CB 
and at the sides to fit him snugly, but will be long enough so there is no gap 
showing shirt above the breeches. Braces help a lot with that, and clip-ons 
will do if they are under a waistcoat.
 
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[albertcat]

 First, how low do I cut them off? 






Have him put the pants on, sit, and then mark where they come to just below the 
knee. Sometimes you have to piece the knee bands because what you cut off the 
pants isn't long enough to get the knee measurement out of in one piece but 
the band only needs to be 1" wide by the knee measurement and an overlap, 
finished (3" x knee measurement + some overlap...so it's folded in half plus 
seam allowance and don't forget allowance on the pants when you cut them 
short! You only need a 1/2" seam allowance, maybe only a 1/4"). A hook and 
bar...like a flat skirt hook, is a good unnoticeable closure. You'll have to 
open up the outseam a little too so as to get his foot and calf through. 
When you write it down like this, it all seems so complicated, but it's not.
I'd see what kind of tights you can find in the women's dept for covering the 
calves. They stay up, and some even look like ribbed socks. Make sure they 
aren't sheer


You might find some moccasins with the bedroom shoes in the men's dept.
 
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[Kathryn Pinner]

White soccer socks will fit him better than girls knee socks and will stay up 
better.  Even loafers or docksiders (or slippers) are better than athletic 
shoes 


Kate Pinner

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of Robin Netherton
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:07 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, 
US Midwest

This is all really useful! I've been having a terrible time finding good images 
online because the "costume" sources all seem to focus on East Coast "Colonial" 
or all-leather "Daniel Boone" styles with not much in between. I will need to 
take time for a slow perusal through art and such, but time is just what I 
don't have right now.

Great idea from Denise about a mandarin collared shirt, which may save me the 
trouble of making new. (I hate sewing for a growing boy who will outgrow it 
before the next year's event!) Goodwill, here I come.

A look at photos from previous events at the site in question shows lots of 
breeches like Albert described. I can modify a pair of my kid's outgrown khaki 
pants for these. A couple of questions for those of you who've done it: First, 
how low do I cut them off? I'm thinking below the knee, maybe by a couple of 
inches; he'll need to be sitting when he performs and needs freedom of 
movement, and I don't want them binding at the knee when he bends his leg. 
Second, how best to fasten the band at the bottom of the pants leg? With a 
button (what type?) or something else?

I'm thinking on the line of girls' plain white kneesocks to cover the calf, 
unless someone tells me otherwise. Shoes, I'm probably stuck with the black 
athletics unless there are moccasins or boots in the right size at Goodwill, 
but I can get away with the shoes; any attempt at costume will be welcome, and 
it's not a strict re-enactment.

--Robin
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[Robin Netherton]

This is all really useful! I've been having a terrible time finding good 
images online because the "costume" sources all seem to focus on East Coast 
"Colonial" or all-leather "Daniel Boone" styles with not much in between. I 
will need to take time for a slow perusal through art and such, but time is 
just what I don't have right now.


Great idea from Denise about a mandarin collared shirt, which may save me the 
trouble of making new. (I hate sewing for a growing boy who will outgrow it 
before the next year's event!) Goodwill, here I come.


A look at photos from previous events at the site in question shows lots of 
breeches like Albert described. I can modify a pair of my kid's outgrown khaki 
pants for these. A couple of questions for those of you who've done it: First, 
how low do I cut them off? I'm thinking below the knee, maybe by a couple of 
inches; he'll need to be sitting when he performs and needs freedom of 
movement, and I don't want them binding at the knee when he bends his leg. 
Second, how best to fasten the band at the bottom of the pants leg? With a 
button (what type?) or something else?


I'm thinking on the line of girls' plain white kneesocks to cover the calf, 
unless someone tells me otherwise. Shoes, I'm probably stuck with the black 
athletics unless there are moccasins or boots in the right size at Goodwill, 
but I can get away with the shoes; any attempt at costume will be welcome, and 
it's not a strict re-enactment.


--Robin
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[albertcat]

BTW I know that the time is C1800 but breeches and buckled shoes are 
worn well into the 1830's, especially in rural areas. And also for more 
"formal" activities, like a concert. So that's why I directed you towards 18th 
century stuff. Breeches make an instant "old timey" effect, y'know.





-Original Message-
From: albert...@aol.com
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:28 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, 
US Midwest








Personally, I'd use a regular shirt maybe take the collar off and replace 
it 
with a rectangular one (or cut it or fold it into a rectangle) and wear a stock 
(a long rectangle wrapped around the neck) or perhaps even a girl's cotton 
blouse with poofy sleeves with these things done to it. But I'd spend my 
efforts 
on an 18th century waistcoat to go over the shirt. They are easy to make and 
the 
patterns made by Simplicity or other commercial companies are not dreadfully 
off 
the mark. (You wouldn't have to do the real pockets, just the flaps). Also, 
take 
a pair of plain pants, cut them off to make breeches, using the cut off part of 
the legs to make the knee bands. This is a trick I've used often when Q&D was 
required. The waistcoat can cover the fly... but the lack of a half fall is not 
that much of a problem really. Now you'll need stockings (tights) and plain 
shoes. A buckle with a fake tongue on elastic can cover the lacings and make 
them look more period.


Are there no costume/party rental places within driving distance? What with 
Teabaggers and stuff, colonial things must be in stock.
 
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[albertcat]

Personally, I'd use a regular shirt maybe take the collar off and replace 
it with a rectangular one (or cut it or fold it into a rectangle) and wear a 
stock (a long rectangle wrapped around the neck) or perhaps even a girl's 
cotton blouse with poofy sleeves with these things done to it. But I'd spend my 
efforts on an 18th century waistcoat to go over the shirt. They are easy to 
make and the patterns made by Simplicity or other commercial companies are not 
dreadfully off the mark. (You wouldn't have to do the real pockets, just the 
flaps). Also, take a pair of plain pants, cut them off to make breeches, using 
the cut off part of the legs to make the knee bands. This is a trick I've used 
often when Q&D was required. The waistcoat can cover the fly... but the lack of 
a half fall is not that much of a problem really. Now you'll need stockings 
(tights) and plain shoes. A buckle with a fake tongue on elastic can cover the 
lacings and make them look more period.


Are there no costume/party rental places within driving distance? What with 
Teabaggers and stuff, colonial things must be in stock.
 
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[Land of Oz]

If you don't find anything else, this is what I put my son in when we did a 
wool demo at a living history park


Mandarin collared men's shirt, cut a little big, in a solid color or 
pinstripe. You may be able to find this in RTW.  Loose cut men's trousers, 
in a coarse weave if possible. Wool trousers may be found at GoodWill or 
similar thrift store.  Hem the pants on the short side and wear plain lace 
up leather boots, ankle high.  Add suspenders, no belt. If you can take the 
belt loops off the pants w/o making holes, that's even better. If you can 
find suspenders with buttons and put buttons on the pants, better yet.


Denise B
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Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[Marjorie Wilser]

Robin,

You're spot on about the shirt; and have him wear plain pants in which  
the fly is hidden (a fall front is more correct, but don't angst).  
Perhaps the shirt could be worn over the pants to hide the fly? Not  
ideal, but it'd work. No crease in the pants legs. Fabric-- plain;  
fit, snug in the leg.  Shoes-- obviously no hiking/running shoes-  
plain black or brown laceups OK. Even moccasins if they're plain.  
Period, for his age? on the frontier-- barefoot :) Neck scarf in a  
plain or woven plaid. Hat, flat straw, or round top straw.


Hopefully that will work; a vest over the shirt, perhaps, but not  
necessary.


== Marjorie Wilser

=:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:=

"Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement." --MW

http://3toad.blogspot.com/




On Aug 31, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Robin Netherton wrote:

My son, age 14, may be playing music at a historic site next week.  
The site doesn't insist on historic dress for performers, but it's a  
nice touch. The site is focused on the Lewis & Clark expedition, c.  
1800, Midwestern US, working class. This is SO out of my period of  
expertise.


I'd like to put something together for him that won't be too jarring  
amid the people who are in costume. I won't have time to sew an  
outfit, but I could alter something or add some accessories. I might  
be able to knock together a quick shirt; I'm thinking on the line of  
Folkwear's Missouri Riverboatman shirt, which I made once before  
(though I no longer have the pattern and would have to re-invent  
from scratch).


Any other suggestions? I'm guessing blue jeans are out...

Alternative: I would be happy to pay postage if someone can loan me  
something suitable. My son is about 5'3" tall and wears a boy's size  
14 slim.


--Robin



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[h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest

[Robin Netherton]

My son, age 14, may be playing music at a historic site next week. The site 
doesn't insist on historic dress for performers, but it's a nice touch. The 
site is focused on the Lewis & Clark expedition, c. 1800, Midwestern US, 
working class. This is SO out of my period of expertise.


I'd like to put something together for him that won't be too jarring amid the 
people who are in costume. I won't have time to sew an outfit, but I could 
alter something or add some accessories. I might be able to knock together a 
quick shirt; I'm thinking on the line of Folkwear's Missouri Riverboatman 
shirt, which I made once before (though I no longer have the pattern and would 
have to re-invent from scratch).


Any other suggestions? I'm guessing blue jeans are out...

Alternative: I would be happy to pay postage if someone can loan me something 
suitable. My son is about 5'3" tall and wears a boy's size 14 slim.


--Robin



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