[h-cost] NOT TYING YOUR BONNET STRINGS?
To go bare-headed and/or bare-legged was wanton behavior not so long ago. To not tie your bonnet strings was extremely 'prideful' or 'wanton' as a lady could not control the wind (reap the wind) or chase after her bonnet. It was wanton if done to, hopefully, cause a gentleman to chase after it for you. So much for the arts of flirtation. Way beyond allowing ones handkerchief to escape ones fingers or sleeve! Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings?
Linda wrote: Thank you, Elizabeth W. and Sharon C. - I never realised that wearing a hat could have so many implications! I wonder if the idea is modern of doing honour to the occasion by wearing a hat, which seems to be coming back into custom and not just fashion. When I wore a hat as part of my school uniform, ( yes, a very long time ago), I would have been grateful for ribbons. In Summer terms, I must have covered many miles with one hand holding it on my head; Autumn and Spring terms were not so bad, since our school Winter coats had an especially wide hood to cover the hat, and that tied with a gathering string. Thinking back, we must have looked very sweet . . . There were certainly rules about never being seen out of doors without your hat - nor your gloves, (brown leather for Winter, white cotton for Summer). Was there some ettiquette behind glove-wearing too? As you say in your 3rd paragraph, I think before the mid-20th century everyone routinely wore a hat out of doors, even if they only had a very shabby one. We used to sew elastic to our school panama hats. Our winter hats were knitted caps, so keeping them on wasn't a problem. Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings?
On 21/11/2011 10:08, Kate Bunting wrote: Linda wrote: Thank you, Elizabeth W. and Sharon C. - I never realised that wearing a hat could have so many implications! I wonder if the idea is modern of doing honour to the occasion by wearing a hat, which seems to be coming back into custom and not just fashion. When I wore a hat as part of my school uniform, ( yes, a very long time ago), I would have been grateful for ribbons. In Summer terms, I must have covered many miles with one hand holding it on my head; Autumn and Spring terms were not so bad, since our school Winter coats had an especially wide hood to cover the hat, and that tied with a gathering string. Thinking back, we must have looked very sweet . . . There were certainly rules about never being seen out of doors without your hat - nor your gloves, (brown leather for Winter, white cotton for Summer). Was there some ettiquette behind glove-wearing too? As you say in your 3rd paragraph, I think before the mid-20th century everyone routinely wore a hat out of doors, even if they only had a very shabby one. We used to sew elastic to our school panama hats. Our winter hats were knitted caps, so keeping them on wasn't a problem. Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor Have you seen the old film of girls coming out of a mill, with shawls over their heads - it was ages before I realised that they were the ones who couldn't afford hats - everyone had either a shawl or a hat to cover their heads. Jean ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ?
Thank you, Elizabeth W. and Sharon C. - I never realised that wearing a hat could have so many implications! I wonder if the idea is modern of doing honour to the occasion by wearing a hat, which seems to be coming back into custom and not just fashion. When I wore a hat as part of my school uniform, ( yes, a very long time ago), I would have been grateful for ribbons. In Summer terms, I must have covered many miles with one hand holding it on my head; Autumn and Spring terms were not so bad, since our school Winter coats had an especially wide hood to cover the hat, and that tied with a gathering string. Thinking back, we must have looked very sweet . . . There were certainly rules about never being seen out of doors without your hat - nor your gloves, (brown leather for Winter, white cotton for Summer). Was there some ettiquette behind glove-wearing too? Linda On 19/11/2011 01:25, Elizabeth W wrote: I actually recall reading a mid 19th century ettiquette manual which specifically states that when paying a formal call you don't take your bonnet off unless sincerely pressed to do so by your host/ess as it's essentially a sign that you are planning on staying for a while (and formal calls were supposed to be no more than 15-20 minutes). I've used the analogy of taking your shoes off in a modern context which would be interpreted as 'making yourself at home'. A bonnet is not something you whip on and off every time you move from inside to outside. Elizabeth On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Sharon Colliersha...@collierfam.com wrote: Interesting. I wear a bonnet at the Dickens Christmas Fair and I often do not tie my bonnet under the chin, but rather lower down. I do this purely for practical reasons---it makes the bonnet so much easier to get on and off. We have to be going from inside to outside, depending on where we are at the fair and just being able to pop it on without struggling with the ribbons is so much easier. I will add that mine is balanced so that I do not need the ribbons or a hatpin to keep it on. Sharon C. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ?
Re: gloves: a kickback to the Victorian thing of never being tanned; it meant you worked! Same reasoning behind always wearing a hat. A LADY did not get tanned from working in the sun. Some women took arsenic in tiny doses to give them that really pale look. The ideal was to be really pale with your blue veins showing through your skin. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Linda Walton Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 9:40 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ? Thank you, Elizabeth W. and Sharon C. - I never realised that wearing a hat could have so many implications! I wonder if the idea is modern of doing honour to the occasion by wearing a hat, which seems to be coming back into custom and not just fashion. When I wore a hat as part of my school uniform, ( yes, a very long time ago), I would have been grateful for ribbons. In Summer terms, I must have covered many miles with one hand holding it on my head; Autumn and Spring terms were not so bad, since our school Winter coats had an especially wide hood to cover the hat, and that tied with a gathering string. Thinking back, we must have looked very sweet . . . There were certainly rules about never being seen out of doors without your hat - nor your gloves, (brown leather for Winter, white cotton for Summer). Was there some ettiquette behind glove-wearing too? Linda On 19/11/2011 01:25, Elizabeth W wrote: I actually recall reading a mid 19th century ettiquette manual which specifically states that when paying a formal call you don't take your bonnet off unless sincerely pressed to do so by your host/ess as it's essentially a sign that you are planning on staying for a while (and formal calls were supposed to be no more than 15-20 minutes). I've used the analogy of taking your shoes off in a modern context which would be interpreted as 'making yourself at home'. A bonnet is not something you whip on and off every time you move from inside to outside. Elizabeth On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Sharon Colliersha...@collierfam.com wrote: Interesting. I wear a bonnet at the Dickens Christmas Fair and I often do not tie my bonnet under the chin, but rather lower down. I do this purely for practical reasons---it makes the bonnet so much easier to get on and off. We have to be going from inside to outside, depending on where we are at the fair and just being able to pop it on without struggling with the ribbons is so much easier. I will add that mine is balanced so that I do not need the ribbons or a hatpin to keep it on. Sharon C. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ?
Actually, at Fezziwigs, one removes one's bonnet because it is difficult to see while one is dancing. While on a short visit to the Adventurer's Club or Tavistock House, one leaves one's bonnet on; if one is staying to have tea or dine, one removes it. Sharon -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Carol Kocian Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 9:52 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ? If I may presume - at the Dicken's Fair, going from inside to outside, they may be portraying the residents of the house and not 19thC visitors to the house. It sounds like they are making concessions to the theatrical nature of the fair. -Carol On Nov 18, 2011, at 8:25 PM, Elizabeth W wrote: I actually recall reading a mid 19th century ettiquette manual which specifically states that when paying a formal call you don't take your bonnet off unless sincerely pressed to do so by your host/ ess as it's essentially a sign that you are planning on staying for a while (and formal calls were supposed to be no more than 15-20 minutes). I've used the analogy of taking your shoes off in a modern context which would be interpreted as 'making yourself at home'. A bonnet is not something you whip on and off every time you move from inside to outside. Elizabeth On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote: Interesting. I wear a bonnet at the Dickens Christmas Fair and I often do not tie my bonnet under the chin, but rather lower down. I do this purely for practical reasons---it makes the bonnet so much easier to get on and off. We have to be going from inside to outside, depending on where we are at the fair and just being able to pop it on without struggling with the ribbons is so much easier. I will add that mine is balanced so that I do not need the ribbons or a hatpin to keep it on. Sharon C. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ?
Most 19th century bonnets I've seen, real and costume, will stay on as well as any hat and the strings don't really keep it on, except maybe in windy weather or in an open coach. I'm willing to bet that many times the tying of one's bonnet string, and how they are to be tied is dictated by fads and fashion. There are also those periods where linen caps are worn in the house and under bonnets, and they do seem to have practical strings and in the 18th century are sometimes clearly meant to be tied under the chin for the look. Just how many things are you to tie under your chin? Then there those 1870-80's bonnets that tie behind As to gloves, you just know there's a myriad of Victorian rules coverning those in society. I know the length has to do with when one wears a certain length. This seems practical as an evening dress might have no sleeves(so long gloves) and a day dress only requires shorter gloves. But wearing them all the time is part of that I don't have to do anything for myself... I have servants, y'know thing. I love those Victorian dinner scenes (like in Age of Innocence) where the ladies at the table have their hands out of the gloves with the glove fingers tucked into the wrist opening. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ?
On 11/19/2011 1:57 PM, albert...@aol.com wrote: Most 19th century bonnets I've seen, real and costume, will stay on as well as any hat and the strings don't really keep it on, except maybe in windy weather or in an open coach. snip There are various 19th-century paintings of women dancing outdoors in the daytime at dance-hall-type venues, and they are all wearing day dress and bonnets or hats. Fran Lavolta Press www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ?
Thank you for sending this information, it's very enlightening! Now that I can see it as 'vain' rather than 'proud', it makes a lot more sense. (I'll write to my sister at once, so she can add the idea to her family history record.) -Linda On 13/11/2011 22:29, Carol Kocian wrote: Interesting — in 18thC reenactment, I heard that you did not tie anything under your chin unless you had a chin to hide. I don't know if it came from an 18thC source, because various folksy things are shared in reenactment. -Carol On Nov 13, 2011, at 5:04 PM, Linda Walton wrote: As the list is so quiet, I'll take this opportunity to raise a point that has always puzzled me, and hope that it will not be off topic. My great-grandmother lived in the North of England, (north Lancashire), at the end of the Victorian era, and I know very little about her, except that she was considered a very proud woman because she wouldn't tie her bonnet strings. It's bothered me all my life, and of course I should have asked my older relatives, but I've left it too late now, and they are all gone. So: can anyone explain what that was about? Awaiting all suggestions with interest, Linda Walton, (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ?
Interesting. I wear a bonnet at the Dickens Christmas Fair and I often do not tie my bonnet under the chin, but rather lower down. I do this purely for practical reasons---it makes the bonnet so much easier to get on and off. We have to be going from inside to outside, depending on where we are at the fair and just being able to pop it on without struggling with the ribbons is so much easier. I will add that mine is balanced so that I do not need the ribbons or a hatpin to keep it on. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Linda Walton Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 11:40 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ? Thank you for sending this information, it's very enlightening! Now that I can see it as 'vain' rather than 'proud', it makes a lot more sense. (I'll write to my sister at once, so she can add the idea to her family history record.) -Linda On 13/11/2011 22:29, Carol Kocian wrote: Interesting - in 18thC reenactment, I heard that you did not tie anything under your chin unless you had a chin to hide. I don't know if it came from an 18thC source, because various folksy things are shared in reenactment. -Carol On Nov 13, 2011, at 5:04 PM, Linda Walton wrote: As the list is so quiet, I'll take this opportunity to raise a point that has always puzzled me, and hope that it will not be off topic. My great-grandmother lived in the North of England, (north Lancashire), at the end of the Victorian era, and I know very little about her, except that she was considered a very proud woman because she wouldn't tie her bonnet strings. It's bothered me all my life, and of course I should have asked my older relatives, but I've left it too late now, and they are all gone. So: can anyone explain what that was about? Awaiting all suggestions with interest, Linda Walton, (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ?
As the list is so quiet, I'll take this opportunity to raise a point that has always puzzled me, and hope that it will not be off topic. My great-grandmother lived in the North of England, (north Lancashire), at the end of the Victorian era, and I know very little about her, except that she was considered a very proud woman because she wouldn't tie her bonnet strings. It's bothered me all my life, and of course I should have asked my older relatives, but I've left it too late now, and they are all gone. So: can anyone explain what that was about? Awaiting all suggestions with interest, Linda Walton, (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ?
Interesting — in 18thC reenactment, I heard that you did not tie anything under your chin unless you had a chin to hide. I don't know if it came from an 18thC source, because various folksy things are shared in reenactment. -Carol On Nov 13, 2011, at 5:04 PM, Linda Walton wrote: As the list is so quiet, I'll take this opportunity to raise a point that has always puzzled me, and hope that it will not be off topic. My great-grandmother lived in the North of England, (north Lancashire), at the end of the Victorian era, and I know very little about her, except that she was considered a very proud woman because she wouldn't tie her bonnet strings. It's bothered me all my life, and of course I should have asked my older relatives, but I've left it too late now, and they are all gone. So: can anyone explain what that was about? Awaiting all suggestions with interest, Linda Walton, (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
