Re: [H] Need AMD XP Sempron CPU
The issue with the twin-die arrangement on the current intel quadcores is that it's not the northbridge that generates the FSB wall, it's the blend of both cores and the need for everything to communicate properly, I've had an E8400 on a 500Mhz FSB (P35 chipset) for a few weeks now and it's very solid but the QC's seem to cap the FSB to around 460-470 or so. It's feasible that no chipset will get around that, sadly :/ although stranger things have happened. http://chryx.shacknet.nu/wolfdale4250.png On 20 Feb 2008, at 03:35, Greg Sevart wrote: I was considering moving to X48 in the coming weeks in anticipation of a 45nm quad-core upgrade (currently running a 65nm quad-core part at 3.2GHz on P35), but I think I'm going to hold off on the mobo move until P45. P45 sports ICH10R, which supposedly has 10GbE, and likely will do a better job overclocking the 45nm QC's. It's due out in June. The real problem is that the new Yorkfield series use a 1333QDR FSB, meaning that the multipliers are lower than the current Kentsfield. That means I'll need something likely capable of 475MHz+ FSB 24/7...that isn't P35 or X38, and likely not X48. P45 I think gives me the best chance at a high FSB to push to 4GHz. :) I wouldn't touch 780i with a 20 foot pole. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of j maccraw Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:33 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Need AMD XP Sempron CPU Thanks Duncan but it has to be 3000+ or better, 400Mhz FSB part. =( LOL, you BiL is hard-up if he's hoping for charity in the form of a free 1.2G T-bird! Hell, I'm only doing replacement here because the rest of the system won't carry forward into X48/780i/DDR2/PCI-E land but is more than usable for HL2 farcry the kids want to play. DHSinclair wrote: j mccraw, I have the this for your consideration: -used- A1200AMS38 AXIA0108CPiW 95039650014 1999 AMD Believe it should be an AMD Thunderbird 1.2GHz. If it will run in your m/b, it's yours... I'll deal with my B-i-L who seems to think he is going to get it someday out of family gratis. Best, Duncan ___ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[H] Offline Windows Updater
Having going through the apain of multiple reboots and patching for a new windows install too many times myself, I wanted to pass along this little gem that I don't think has been mentioned here before: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/security/Do-it-yourself-Service-Pack--/features/80682 It's an offline updater for Windows, reminiscent of the now defunct Autopatcher. You download it, tell it which windows products (OS and/or Office), versions, and languages you want, and it will download all the patches and service packs and put them into one burnable CD or DVD. The download link for the latest version is here: http://www.heise.de/ct/projekte/offlineupdate/download_uk.shtml Lifesaver. --- Brian
Re: [H] Need AMD XP Sempron CPU
Oh, the chipset plays a huge role. The communication you speak of is (largely) regulated the NB in question. An exaggerated (because it has other problems) example is the 680i chipset. Even P965's are generally capable of running higher FSBs with QC chips than it can. Alternately, you can look at the RD600 chipset. It provides special tuning methods of the AGTL+ bus timings (only Core 2-compatible chipset that can do this as a tunable option as I understand), which have a -huge- impact on QC overclockability. I still intend on getting the Q9450 or Q9550 when they're out, but probably won't be able to push it to the limit until P45. Yes, two dies will always limit what FSB you can hit, my argument is that given a chip technically able to hit the high FSB, the chipset plays a very substantial role. Probably even more important, however, is the motherboard itself...but given that P45 should give most makers their second stab at a design based on a chipset with native 1600QDR FSB support, I'm hopeful that we'll see the best QC OC results yet with it. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Boswell Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:16 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Need AMD XP Sempron CPU The issue with the twin-die arrangement on the current intel quadcores is that it's not the northbridge that generates the FSB wall, it's the blend of both cores and the need for everything to communicate properly, I've had an E8400 on a 500Mhz FSB (P35 chipset) for a few weeks now and it's very solid but the QC's seem to cap the FSB to around 460-470 or so. It's feasible that no chipset will get around that, sadly :/ although stranger things have happened. http://chryx.shacknet.nu/wolfdale4250.png On 20 Feb 2008, at 03:35, Greg Sevart wrote: I was considering moving to X48 in the coming weeks in anticipation of a 45nm quad-core upgrade (currently running a 65nm quad-core part at 3.2GHz on P35), but I think I'm going to hold off on the mobo move until P45. P45 sports ICH10R, which supposedly has 10GbE, and likely will do a better job overclocking the 45nm QC's. It's due out in June. The real problem is that the new Yorkfield series use a 1333QDR FSB, meaning that the multipliers are lower than the current Kentsfield. That means I'll need something likely capable of 475MHz+ FSB 24/7...that isn't P35 or X38, and likely not X48. P45 I think gives me the best chance at a high FSB to push to 4GHz. :) I wouldn't touch 780i with a 20 foot pole. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of j maccraw Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:33 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Need AMD XP Sempron CPU Thanks Duncan but it has to be 3000+ or better, 400Mhz FSB part. =( LOL, you BiL is hard-up if he's hoping for charity in the form of a free 1.2G T-bird! Hell, I'm only doing replacement here because the rest of the system won't carry forward into X48/780i/DDR2/PCI-E land but is more than usable for HL2 farcry the kids want to play. DHSinclair wrote: j mccraw, I have the this for your consideration: -used- A1200AMS38 AXIA0108CPiW 95039650014 1999 AMD Believe it should be an AMD Thunderbird 1.2GHz. If it will run in your m/b, it's yours... I'll deal with my B-i-L who seems to think he is going to get it someday out of family gratis. Best, Duncan ___ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater
Thane, I'm actually kinda surprised you don't just run an internal WSUS server for in-house patching. I've always preferred it over third party tools. Sure, it still requires multiple reboots, but at least pulling updates is nearly instantaneous. After a couple botched systems caused by Autopatcher, I just don't trust those tools to get the dependencies right. It doesn't help much in the field so to speak, but could certainly assist in-house. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:34 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater Hi Brian, Thanks for the tip, I'm definitely going to try this out. T At 09:06 AM 20/02/2008, Brian Weeden wrote: Having going through the apain of multiple reboots and patching for a new windows install too many times myself, I wanted to pass along this little gem that I don't think has been mentioned here before: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/security/Do-it-yourself-Service-Pack-- /features/80682 It's an offline updater for Windows, reminiscent of the now defunct Autopatcher. You download it, tell it which windows products (OS and/or Office), versions, and languages you want, and it will download all the patches and service packs and put them into one burnable CD or DVD. The download link for the latest version is here: http://www.heise.de/ct/projekte/offlineupdate/download_uk.shtml Lifesaver. --- Brian
Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater
Hi Brian, Thanks for the tip, I'm definitely going to try this out. T At 09:06 AM 20/02/2008, Brian Weeden wrote: Having going through the apain of multiple reboots and patching for a new windows install too many times myself, I wanted to pass along this little gem that I don't think has been mentioned here before: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/security/Do-it-yourself-Service-Pack--/features/80682 It's an offline updater for Windows, reminiscent of the now defunct Autopatcher. You download it, tell it which windows products (OS and/or Office), versions, and languages you want, and it will download all the patches and service packs and put them into one burnable CD or DVD. The download link for the latest version is here: http://www.heise.de/ct/projekte/offlineupdate/download_uk.shtml Lifesaver. --- Brian
Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater
At 09:48 AM 20/02/2008, Greg Sevart wrote: Thane, I'm actually kinda surprised you don't just run an internal WSUS server for in-house patching. I've always preferred it over third party tools. Sure, it still requires multiple reboots, but at least pulling updates is nearly instantaneous. After a couple botched systems caused by Autopatcher, I just don't trust those tools to get the dependencies right. It doesn't help much in the field so to speak, but could certainly assist in-house. I understood that in order to use a WSUS server, I'd have to log the machine to be updated into my server. Then I'd have to convince the machine to go back to normal Windows Updates when the customer takes the computer home. I've done some very basic reading on this, and it doesn't appear anyone has WSUS working in a repair shop setting. If you have some pointers, I'd be interested in giving it a try. T
Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater
Looks nice, just rebuilt 2 PC's this weekend and even using XP with SP2, there were 102 or so updates needed and it takes forever. Having going through the apain of multiple reboots and patching for a new windows install too many times myself, I wanted to pass along this little gem that I don't think has been mentioned here before: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/security/Do-it-yourself-Service-Pack--/features/80682 It's an offline updater for Windows, reminiscent of the now defunct Autopatcher. You download it, tell it which windows products (OS and/or Office), versions, and languages you want, and it will download all the patches and service packs and put them into one burnable CD or DVD. The download link for the latest version is here: http://www.heise.de/ct/projekte/offlineupdate/download_uk.shtml Lifesaver. --- Brian -- JRS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please remove **X** to reply... ...Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult...
Re: [H] Need AMD XP Sempron CPU
Oh absolutely, the chipset does play a huge role, but I fear we're going to start running into the limits of the signal traces over the board itself AND timing issues derived from having two drops on the bus. On 20 Feb 2008, at 13:33, Greg Sevart wrote: Oh, the chipset plays a huge role. The communication you speak of is (largely) regulated the NB in question. An exaggerated (because it has other problems) example is the 680i chipset. Even P965's are generally capable of running higher FSBs with QC chips than it can. Alternately, you can look at the RD600 chipset. It provides special tuning methods of the AGTL+ bus timings (only Core 2-compatible chipset that can do this as a tunable option as I understand), which have a -huge- impact on QC overclockability. I still intend on getting the Q9450 or Q9550 when they're out, but probably won't be able to push it to the limit until P45. Yes, two dies will always limit what FSB you can hit, my argument is that given a chip technically able to hit the high FSB, the chipset plays a very substantial role. Probably even more important, however, is the motherboard itself...but given that P45 should give most makers their second stab at a design based on a chipset with native 1600QDR FSB support, I'm hopeful that we'll see the best QC OC results yet with it. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Boswell Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:16 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Need AMD XP Sempron CPU The issue with the twin-die arrangement on the current intel quadcores is that it's not the northbridge that generates the FSB wall, it's the blend of both cores and the need for everything to communicate properly, I've had an E8400 on a 500Mhz FSB (P35 chipset) for a few weeks now and it's very solid but the QC's seem to cap the FSB to around 460-470 or so. It's feasible that no chipset will get around that, sadly :/ although stranger things have happened. http://chryx.shacknet.nu/wolfdale4250.png On 20 Feb 2008, at 03:35, Greg Sevart wrote: I was considering moving to X48 in the coming weeks in anticipation of a 45nm quad-core upgrade (currently running a 65nm quad-core part at 3.2GHz on P35), but I think I'm going to hold off on the mobo move until P45. P45 sports ICH10R, which supposedly has 10GbE, and likely will do a better job overclocking the 45nm QC's. It's due out in June. The real problem is that the new Yorkfield series use a 1333QDR FSB, meaning that the multipliers are lower than the current Kentsfield. That means I'll need something likely capable of 475MHz+ FSB 24/7...that isn't P35 or X38, and likely not X48. P45 I think gives me the best chance at a high FSB to push to 4GHz. :) I wouldn't touch 780i with a 20 foot pole. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of j maccraw Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:33 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Need AMD XP Sempron CPU Thanks Duncan but it has to be 3000+ or better, 400Mhz FSB part. =( LOL, you BiL is hard-up if he's hoping for charity in the form of a free 1.2G T-bird! Hell, I'm only doing replacement here because the rest of the system won't carry forward into X48/780i/DDR2/PCI-E land but is more than usable for HL2 farcry the kids want to play. DHSinclair wrote: j mccraw, I have the this for your consideration: -used- A1200AMS38 AXIA0108CPiW 95039650014 1999 AMD Believe it should be an AMD Thunderbird 1.2GHz. If it will run in your m/b, it's yours... I'll deal with my B-i-L who seems to think he is going to get it someday out of family gratis. Best, Duncan ___ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater
At 07:06 2/20/2008, Brian Weeden, wrote: Having going through the apain of multiple reboots and patching for a new windows install too many times myself, I wanted to pass along this little gem that I don't think has been mentioned here before: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/security/Do-it-yourself-Service-Pack--/f eatures/80682 It's an offline updater for Windows, reminiscent of the now defunct Autopatcher. You download it, tell it which windows products (OS and/or Office), versions, and languages you want, and it will download all the patches and service packs and put them into one burnable CD or DVD. The download link for the latest version is here: http://www.heise.de/ct/projekte/offlineupdate/download_uk.shtml Lifesaver. --- Brian Or, if you like to pick and choose: http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?act=SFf=129 Start Here to Find It Fast! - http://www.US-Webmasters.com/best-start-page/ $8.77 Domain Names - http://domains.us-webmasters.com/
Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater
I would 2nd not using 3rd party tools for this kind of stuff unless its a up to business par. I worked for a company who was the pioneer of windows patch management and trust me its a VERY hard thing to do right I would be very hesitant to trust some free tool. But if you could install with a xp sp2 install then connect to your own internal WSUS server for updates post install patching could go from 2hrs to 20min. One cool tool I found and actually used was nLite. Anyone else here use that before? I only used it once but worked good that one time. But I can't really vouch for it as a tool to run your business on but if anyone wants to play with it and let us know what you think I would love to hear. Thanks, -- Ali Mesdaq (CISSP, GIAC-GREM) Security Researcher II Websense Security Labs http://www.WebsenseSecurityLabs.com -- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Sevart Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:48 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater Thane, I'm actually kinda surprised you don't just run an internal WSUS server for in-house patching. I've always preferred it over third party tools. Sure, it still requires multiple reboots, but at least pulling updates is nearly instantaneous. After a couple botched systems caused by Autopatcher, I just don't trust those tools to get the dependencies right. It doesn't help much in the field so to speak, but could certainly assist in-house. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:34 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater Hi Brian, Thanks for the tip, I'm definitely going to try this out. T At 09:06 AM 20/02/2008, Brian Weeden wrote: Having going through the apain of multiple reboots and patching for a new windows install too many times myself, I wanted to pass along this little gem that I don't think has been mentioned here before: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/security/Do-it-yourself-Service-Pack-- /features/80682 It's an offline updater for Windows, reminiscent of the now defunct Autopatcher. You download it, tell it which windows products (OS and/or Office), versions, and languages you want, and it will download all the patches and service packs and put them into one burnable CD or DVD. The download link for the latest version is here: http://www.heise.de/ct/projekte/offlineupdate/download_uk.shtml Lifesaver. --- Brian Protected by Websense Messaging Security -- www.websense.com
Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater
At 01:58 PM 20/02/2008, Mesdaq, Ali wrote: I would be very hesitant to trust some free tool. But if you could install with a xp sp2 install then connect to your own internal WSUS server for updates post install patching could go from 2hrs to 20min. Can I use an WSUS server in a repair shop? Everything I've read says it won't work, or if it does, may/will screw up doing Windows update from home. T
Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater
nLite has it's place when making custom install XP CD's. Autopatcher was quite good and is not dead but rather they've been forced to change tack by scripting the downloads (to come direct from M$ servers) needed to create the packages. Right now it looks like the downloader has some issues with stalling and I would not be surprised if M$ is causing that on purpose. Personally I still start with the AP August 2007 core if I reinstall or patch a system because it's just that much less I have to download. I'll have to look into this other patcher but I think they made themselves known on the AP forums were brushed aside. Mesdaq, Ali wrote: I would 2nd not using 3rd party tools for this kind of stuff unless its a up to business par. I worked for a company who was the pioneer of windows patch management and trust me its a VERY hard thing to do right I would be very hesitant to trust some free tool. But if you could install with a xp sp2 install then connect to your own internal WSUS server for updates post install patching could go from 2hrs to 20min. One cool tool I found and actually used was nLite. Anyone else here use that before? I only used it once but worked good that one time. But I can't really vouch for it as a tool to run your business on but if anyone wants to play with it and let us know what you think I would love to hear. Thanks, -- Ali Mesdaq (CISSP, GIAC-GREM) Security Researcher II Websense Security Labs http://www.WebsenseSecurityLabs.com -- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Sevart Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:48 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater Thane, I'm actually kinda surprised you don't just run an internal WSUS server for in-house patching. I've always preferred it over third party tools. Sure, it still requires multiple reboots, but at least pulling updates is nearly instantaneous. After a couple botched systems caused by Autopatcher, I just don't trust those tools to get the dependencies right. It doesn't help much in the field so to speak, but could certainly assist in-house. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:34 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater Hi Brian, Thanks for the tip, I'm definitely going to try this out. T Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater
At 03:04 PM 20/02/2008, Greg Sevart wrote: Oh, absolutely. You also don't need a domain and group policy--you just use a .reg file to add the WSUS server info, then delete the key when you're fully patched. We use it internally to bring new machines up to date -before- joining the corporate domain. Awesome. This is going to be a huge time saver for me. I owe you. T
Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater
Oh, absolutely. You also don't need a domain and group policy--you just use a .reg file to add the WSUS server info, then delete the key when you're fully patched. We use it internally to bring new machines up to date -before- joining the corporate domain. Here's a sample wsus-enable.reg file: Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate] WUServer=http://[wsus-server]:[port]; WUStatusServer=http://[wsus-server]:[port]; [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU] NoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUsers=dword:0001 NoAutoUpdate=dword: AUOptions=dword:0004 ScheduledInstallDay=dword: ScheduledInstallTime=dword:0009 RebootRelaunchTimeoutEnabled=dword:0001 RebootRelaunchTimeout=dword:003c RescheduleWaitTimeEnabled=dword:0001 RescheduleWaitTime=dword:001e UseWUServer=dword:0001 You'll want to save out the HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate key before doing this to re-set back to standard updates. Save it out as something like wsus-disable.reg and just run it on machines (along with a REG DELETE beforehand?) after you're patched. There's nothing system-unique in this key; one export should work for all Windows machines. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 12:17 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater At 01:58 PM 20/02/2008, Mesdaq, Ali wrote: I would be very hesitant to trust some free tool. But if you could install with a xp sp2 install then connect to your own internal WSUS server for updates post install patching could go from 2hrs to 20min. Can I use an WSUS server in a repair shop? Everything I've read says it won't work, or if it does, may/will screw up doing Windows update from home. T
Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater
Some other useful notes: net stop wuauserv stops the Automatic Updates (AU) service so it will pick up the new config. Change to start, obviously, to restart it. wuauclt /detectnow forces AU to detect if updates are needed immediately. c:\windows\WindowsUpdate.log provides a verbose log file of AU activity. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:13 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater At 03:04 PM 20/02/2008, Greg Sevart wrote: Oh, absolutely. You also don't need a domain and group policy--you just use a .reg file to add the WSUS server info, then delete the key when you're fully patched. We use it internally to bring new machines up to date -before- joining the corporate domain. Awesome. This is going to be a huge time saver for me. I owe you. T
Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater
Greg your the Man! Thanks for the reg key info and the wuaclt /detectnow info. I remember there was a command line way to force it to check but too lazy to look for it. So you answered my laziness for me. I think a combination of nLite customized xp install to include something's in the install like perl or whatever scripting language can really automate this whole process so the computer keeps checking for updates on start up until there are none left and deletes itself and changes reg keys back to normal. Thanks, -- Ali Mesdaq (CISSP, GIAC-GREM) Security Researcher II Websense Security Labs http://www.WebsenseSecurityLabs.com -- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Sevart Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:23 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater Some other useful notes: net stop wuauserv stops the Automatic Updates (AU) service so it will pick up the new config. Change to start, obviously, to restart it. wuauclt /detectnow forces AU to detect if updates are needed immediately. c:\windows\WindowsUpdate.log provides a verbose log file of AU activity. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:13 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Offline Windows Updater At 03:04 PM 20/02/2008, Greg Sevart wrote: Oh, absolutely. You also don't need a domain and group policy--you just use a .reg file to add the WSUS server info, then delete the key when you're fully patched. We use it internally to bring new machines up to date -before- joining the corporate domain. Awesome. This is going to be a huge time saver for me. I owe you. T Protected by Websense Messaging Security -- www.websense.com
