Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo
Ashley Yakeley wrote: I rather like the fact that the Haskell Platform logo is distinct from the Haskell logo. I think it helps prevent confusion (even though the Platform logo is based on one of the Haskell logo competition entrants). http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_Platform Well, I disagree. Even though I do not like the new haskell logo, I prefer consistency. I like the black/gold version proposed. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo
Hey all, On 15 jun 2009, at 08:39, Ashley Yakeley wrote: Thomas Davie wrote: We had a lot of fun deciding Haskell's new logo, and while I don't agree with the final result, it would be nice if we could now start consistently using it. With that in mind, I realised that the Haskell Platform's logo is totally different, and did a quick mock up of a version reflecting the current Haskell logo. It needs someone with the original vector graphics to have a play and improve it a little bit, but hopefully you'll se a concept you like. I rather like the fact that the Haskell Platform logo is distinct from the Haskell logo. I think it helps prevent confusion (even though the Platform logo is based on one of the Haskell logo competition entrants). For new users, when they install Haskell they will install the Haskell Platform. I don't think we need to have a big distinction between that. Therefore, I think that the Haskell Platform should share the Haskell logo. I think the Haskell platform is an excellent name for internal communication, but to the outside world, it *is* Haskell. This is what you get when you install Haskell. Otherwise it will probably only confuse users. I think a typical new user would do something along the following lines: I want to play around with Haskell. I'll google for install Haskell or download Haskell (here, the Haskell Platform download page should be the #1 hit). There, the user sees the Haskell logo and doesn't have to know *anything* about the platform effort, cabal, ghc or whatever. Therefore, I think it should have the Haskell logo, not the platform logo. -chris ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Logo
Thomas Davie wrote: We had a lot of fun deciding Haskell's new logo, and while I don't agree with the final result, it would be nice if we could now start consistently using it. With that in mind, I realised that the Haskell Platform's logo is totally different, and did a quick mock up of a version reflecting the current Haskell logo. It needs someone with the original vector graphics to have a play and improve it a little bit, but hopefully you'll se a concept you like. I rather like the fact that the Haskell Platform logo is distinct from the Haskell logo. I think it helps prevent confusion (even though the Platform logo is based on one of the Haskell logo competition entrants). http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_Platform By the way, when I came to replace the Haskell logo on the wiki site, since the colours had not and still have not been officially decided on, I just picked the same colours as the Haskell Platform logo. So for the time being, there is a visual link between the two logos. -- Ashley Yakeley ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
Luke Palmer lrpal...@gmail.com writes: Nice work, I love this one. :-) Yes, very nice. I do find the lambda and too fat, but I presume that's the way the Haskell logo looks. Also, I think the right edges of the thick part of the batteries should be aligned, so that the little knob on the + extends further than the flat end of the -. -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:24, Ketil Maldeke...@malde.org wrote: Luke Palmer lrpal...@gmail.com writes: Nice work, I love this one. :-) Yes, very nice. I do find the lambda and too fat, but I presume that's the way the Haskell logo looks. Also, I think the right edges of the thick part of the batteries should be aligned, so that the little knob on the + extends further than the flat end of the -. For purely aestethic reasons, I agree, and that's how I originally did it. But then I realized that this does not make sense. Open any battery compartment and you'll see that the end of the knob on the + side is aligned with the flat end of the – side. Moreover, in this way the original width of the logo remains exactly the same. I'm not sure if that really matters, though. Thomas ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Fwd: [Haskell-cafe] Logo
Meant this to go to the list... -- Forwarded message -- From: Robert Greayer robgrea...@gmail.com To: Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org For anyone concerned the Hackage icon (http://hackage.haskell.org/favicon.ico) is still the old blue lambda, not the sparkling new icon (http://haskell.org/favicon.ico). On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:39 AM, Ashley Yakeleyash...@semantic.org wrote: Thomas Davie wrote: We had a lot of fun deciding Haskell's new logo, and while I don't agree with the final result, it would be nice if we could now start consistently using it. With that in mind, I realised that the Haskell Platform's logo is totally different, and did a quick mock up of a version reflecting the current Haskell logo. It needs someone with the original vector graphics to have a play and improve it a little bit, but hopefully you'll se a concept you like. I rather like the fact that the Haskell Platform logo is distinct from the Haskell logo. I think it helps prevent confusion (even though the Platform logo is based on one of the Haskell logo competition entrants). http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_Platform By the way, when I came to replace the Haskell logo on the wiki site, since the colours had not and still have not been officially decided on, I just picked the same colours as the Haskell Platform logo. So for the time being, there is a visual link between the two logos. -- Ashley Yakeley ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
2009/6/11 Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com: Here's the logo, continuing on the batteries included theme: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/HaskellBatteries.png I'd sugest a thinner and smaller lambda, or bigger (maybe longer) batteries. The + tip of the batteries should also be colored in gold. Loup. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
On 12 Jun 2009, at 10:27, Loup Vaillant wrote: 2009/6/11 Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com: Here's the logo, continuing on the batteries included theme: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/HaskellBatteries.png I'd sugest a thinner and smaller lambda, or bigger (maybe longer) batteries. The + tip of the batteries should also be colored in gold. Hmm, I'm not sure I agree -- I think the main strength of the original logo is that it's simple, both in terms of all lines being the same width, and in terms of having only two colours used. It means it can be adapted to all sorts of different colour sets (as it is on Haskell.org). Perhaps the correct thing to do here is to make a black/gold version for the haskell platform? I do agree with the earlier comment that the font for the +/- needs to be more bold, if I'd had a vector version, I would have done that. Bob ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
There's a SVG version of the logo on the wiki: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Thompson-Wheeler_logo On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Thomas Davietom.da...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 Jun 2009, at 10:27, Loup Vaillant wrote: 2009/6/11 Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com: Here's the logo, continuing on the batteries included theme: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/HaskellBatteries.png I'd sugest a thinner and smaller lambda, or bigger (maybe longer) batteries. The + tip of the batteries should also be colored in gold. Hmm, I'm not sure I agree -- I think the main strength of the original logo is that it's simple, both in terms of all lines being the same width, and in terms of having only two colours used. It means it can be adapted to all sorts of different colour sets (as it is on Haskell.org). Perhaps the correct thing to do here is to make a black/gold version for the haskell platform? I do agree with the earlier comment that the font for the +/- needs to be more bold, if I'd had a vector version, I would have done that. Bob ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
2009/6/12 Tom Lokhorst t...@lokhorst.eu: There's a SVG version of the logo on the wiki: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Thompson-Wheeler_logo I think the biggest problem making the batteries not look like batteries is that they don't look round. For that we need some careful gradenting of them, to make the bottoms of them look shadowed. -- Deniz Dogan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
2009/6/12 Deniz Dogan deniz.a.m.do...@gmail.com: 2009/6/12 Tom Lokhorst t...@lokhorst.eu: There's a SVG version of the logo on the wiki: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Thompson-Wheeler_logo I think the biggest problem making the batteries not look like batteries is that they don't look round. For that we need some careful gradenting of them, to make the bottoms of them look shadowed. -- Deniz Dogan Attached is a new version of the same idea with a slight gradient on the batteries and a slightly thicker font for the signs. -- Deniz Dogan attachment: logo-1.svg___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
2009/6/12 Deniz Dogan deniz.a.m.do...@gmail.com: 2009/6/12 Deniz Dogan deniz.a.m.do...@gmail.com: 2009/6/12 Tom Lokhorst t...@lokhorst.eu: There's a SVG version of the logo on the wiki: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Thompson-Wheeler_logo I think the biggest problem making the batteries not look like batteries is that they don't look round. For that we need some careful gradenting of them, to make the bottoms of them look shadowed. -- Deniz Dogan Attached is a new version of the same idea with a slight gradient on the batteries and a slightly thicker font for the signs. -- Deniz Dogan I realise now that I forgot the little head on the plus side of the battery, so you'll just have to imagine it's there. ;) -- Deniz Dogan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
On 12 Jun 2009, at 11:15, Deniz Dogan wrote: 2009/6/12 Deniz Dogan deniz.a.m.do...@gmail.com: 2009/6/12 Tom Lokhorst t...@lokhorst.eu: There's a SVG version of the logo on the wiki: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Thompson-Wheeler_logo I think the biggest problem making the batteries not look like batteries is that they don't look round. For that we need some careful gradenting of them, to make the bottoms of them look shadowed. -- Deniz Dogan Attached is a new version of the same idea with a slight gradient on the batteries and a slightly thicker font for the signs. With various people's ideas taken into account, I've created a new version of my attempt: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/logo-1.png http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/logo-1.svg I think the yellow/black is easily enough to highlight it as a battery, and saves adding gradients etc, that can become awkward if the logo is ever used in printing. Bob ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
2009/6/12 Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com: On 12 Jun 2009, at 11:15, Deniz Dogan wrote: 2009/6/12 Deniz Dogan deniz.a.m.do...@gmail.com: 2009/6/12 Tom Lokhorst t...@lokhorst.eu: There's a SVG version of the logo on the wiki: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Thompson-Wheeler_logo I think the biggest problem making the batteries not look like batteries is that they don't look round. For that we need some careful gradenting of them, to make the bottoms of them look shadowed. -- Deniz Dogan Attached is a new version of the same idea with a slight gradient on the batteries and a slightly thicker font for the signs. With various people's ideas taken into account, I've created a new version of my attempt: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/logo-1.png http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/logo-1.svg I think the yellow/black is easily enough to highlight it as a battery, and saves adding gradients etc, that can become awkward if the logo is ever used in printing. Bob While I agree with you on the printing issue, I believe that we can use separate logos for web use (perhaps with gradients, depending on what others think) and another logo for printing. After all, one can argue that any colours apart from greyscale ones are non-optimal for printing as well, but that will not stop anyone from making a colourful logo. -- Deniz Dogan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 11:25, Thomas Davietom.da...@gmail.com wrote: With various people's ideas taken into account, I've created a new version of my attempt: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/logo-1.png http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/logo-1.svg I think the yellow/black is easily enough to highlight it as a battery, and saves adding gradients etc, that can become awkward if the logo is ever used in printing. Bob I like this last version a lot, except that the minus sign should be the same width and height as the horizontal bar of the plus sign. How about this? http://thomas.home.fmf.nl/haskell-platform-logo-bob-mod.svg It's an Inkscape svg file, easily editable. Thomas ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
Nice work, I love this one. :-) On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:25 AM, Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 Jun 2009, at 11:15, Deniz Dogan wrote: 2009/6/12 Deniz Dogan deniz.a.m.do...@gmail.com: 2009/6/12 Tom Lokhorst t...@lokhorst.eu: There's a SVG version of the logo on the wiki: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Thompson-Wheeler_logo I think the biggest problem making the batteries not look like batteries is that they don't look round. For that we need some careful gradenting of them, to make the bottoms of them look shadowed. -- Deniz Dogan Attached is a new version of the same idea with a slight gradient on the batteries and a slightly thicker font for the signs. With various people's ideas taken into account, I've created a new version of my attempt: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/logo-1.png http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/logo-1.svg I think the yellow/black is easily enough to highlight it as a battery, and saves adding gradients etc, that can become awkward if the logo is ever used in printing. Bob ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
We had a lot of fun deciding Haskell's new logo, and while I don't agree with the final result, it would be nice if we could now start consistently using it. With that in mind, I realised that the Haskell Platform's logo is totally different, and did a quick mock up of a version reflecting the current Haskell logo. It needs someone with the original vector graphics to have a play and improve it a little bit, but hopefully you'll se a concept you like. Here's the logo, continuing on the batteries included theme: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/HaskellBatteries.png I'd appreciate comments, suggestions, and possibly either access to the vector version of our current logo, or someone producing a nice version of this. Bob ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
2009/6/11 Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com: We had a lot of fun deciding Haskell's new logo, and while I don't agree with the final result, it would be nice if we could now start consistently using it. With that in mind, I realised that the Haskell Platform's logo is totally different, and did a quick mock up of a version reflecting the current Haskell logo. It needs someone with the original vector graphics to have a play and improve it a little bit, but hopefully you'll se a concept you like. Here's the logo, continuing on the batteries included theme: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/HaskellBatteries.png I'd appreciate comments, suggestions, and possibly either access to the vector version of our current logo, or someone producing a nice version of this. Bob I love this suggestion! Maybe we should make the batteries look more battery-ish though. I think that especially the minus sign is a bit unclear, so maybe we could make the signs heavier? -- Deniz Dogan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
The idea is pretty cool, but at first sight the batteries look like a graphical glitch. Probably some antialiasing or smoothening is needed.. 2009/6/11 Deniz Dogan deniz.a.m.do...@gmail.com: 2009/6/11 Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com: We had a lot of fun deciding Haskell's new logo, and while I don't agree with the final result, it would be nice if we could now start consistently using it. With that in mind, I realised that the Haskell Platform's logo is totally different, and did a quick mock up of a version reflecting the current Haskell logo. It needs someone with the original vector graphics to have a play and improve it a little bit, but hopefully you'll se a concept you like. Here's the logo, continuing on the batteries included theme: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/HaskellBatteries.png I'd appreciate comments, suggestions, and possibly either access to the vector version of our current logo, or someone producing a nice version of this. Bob I love this suggestion! Maybe we should make the batteries look more battery-ish though. I think that especially the minus sign is a bit unclear, so maybe we could make the signs heavier? -- Deniz Dogan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Eugene Kirpichov Web IR developer, market.yandex.ru ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo fun
I would like to have a go at it. Could you maybe upload the vector version somewhere? Thanks, Thomas On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 13:22, Eugene Kirpichovekirpic...@gmail.com wrote: The idea is pretty cool, but at first sight the batteries look like a graphical glitch. Probably some antialiasing or smoothening is needed.. 2009/6/11 Deniz Dogan deniz.a.m.do...@gmail.com: 2009/6/11 Thomas Davie tom.da...@gmail.com: We had a lot of fun deciding Haskell's new logo, and while I don't agree with the final result, it would be nice if we could now start consistently using it. With that in mind, I realised that the Haskell Platform's logo is totally different, and did a quick mock up of a version reflecting the current Haskell logo. It needs someone with the original vector graphics to have a play and improve it a little bit, but hopefully you'll se a concept you like. Here's the logo, continuing on the batteries included theme: http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/rpg/tatd2/HaskellBatteries.png I'd appreciate comments, suggestions, and possibly either access to the vector version of our current logo, or someone producing a nice version of this. Bob I love this suggestion! Maybe we should make the batteries look more battery-ish though. I think that especially the minus sign is a bit unclear, so maybe we could make the signs heavier? -- Deniz Dogan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Eugene Kirpichov Web IR developer, market.yandex.ru ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Vote crashed? (was: Haskell Logo write-in candidate)
Warren Harris warrensomeb...@gmail.com wrote: After spending a bit of time trying to decide how to vote, I ended up deciding that my favorite would be a hybrid of several of the designs (#9 #49 FalconNL, and #50 George Pollard). It's probably too late to include this in the voting, but here it is nonetheless: +1 However, despite having not yet cast any vote, I now find that the voting site gives me: 404 Not Found The requested URL /~andru/cgi-perl/civs/vote.pl was not found on this server. Regards, Malcolm ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Vote crashed?
Malcolm Wallace wrote: However, despite having not yet cast any vote, I now find that the voting site gives me: 404 Not Found The requested URL /~andru/cgi-perl/civs/vote.pl was not found on this server. The URL I have starts with /w8/ : http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/vote.pl?id=...key=... It worked when I tried it a minute ago. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org wrote: Eelco Lempsink wrote: The list with options can be found here (for now): http://community.haskell.org/~eelco/poll.html Notice that some (very) similar logos are grouped as one option (thanks to Ian Lynagh) All submissions compete, so that still makes more than a 100 options! Lots of nice submissions! Here are some thing that are worth keeping in mind when voting. How does the logo work: * on different backgrounds (in particular: white), * at small sizes (on file system icons, 16x16 pixels browser favicon, etc), and * in different cultures (i.e. does it contain e.g. a pun that many people won't understand). Cheers, Johan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org wrote: Eelco Lempsink wrote: The list with options can be found here (for now): http://community.haskell.org/~eelco/poll.html Notice that some (very) similar logos are grouped as one option (thanks to Ian Lynagh) All submissions compete, so that still makes more than a 100 options! The voting system we'll use is the Condorcet Internet Voting System ( http://www.cs.cornell.edu/andru/civs.html). So ranking all 100+ items on the Condorcet ballot is a bit of a daunting task. However, if we get a rough idea of the favourites, we can each cut down a bit on the work. For instance, suppose 82 and 93 are very popular. You might not like either of them, but it's worth ranking them on your ballot (after the ones you do like) if you have a preference between them. But there's less need to rank the ones no-one likes. I'm pretty sure this is precisely how the system works. You bring the ones you care about to the top and rank them, and everything else shares a rank at the bottom (or you could pick a few of those that you really dislike and put them even lower than the default rank). But the point is that you shouldn't need to rank every single logo, just the ones you care about and then you leave the rest at the default rank. -- Sebastian Sylvan +44(0)7857-300802 UIN: 44640862 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
Hello Sebastian, Monday, March 9, 2009, 1:08:50 PM, you wrote: i think we should make 2-stage voting, like in F1 after 1st stage we will know which logos are most popular and therefore are real candidates, so we can select among them On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org wrote: Eelco Lempsink wrote: The list with options can be found here (for now): http://community.haskell.org/~eelco/poll.html Notice that some (very) similar logos are grouped as one option (thanks to Ian Lynagh) All submissions compete, so that still makes more than a 100 options! The voting system we'll use is the Condorcet Internet Voting System (http://www.cs.cornell.edu/andru/civs.html). So ranking all 100+ items on the Condorcet ballot is a bit of a daunting task. However, if we get a rough idea of the favourites, we can each cut down a bit on the work. For instance, suppose 82 and 93 are very popular. You might not like either of them, but it's worth ranking them on your ballot (after the ones you do like) if you have a preference between them. But there's less need to rank the ones no-one likes. I'm pretty sure this is precisely how the system works. You bring the ones you care about to the top and rank them, and everything else shares a rank at the bottom (or you could pick a few of those that you really dislike and put them even lower than the default rank). But the point is that you shouldn't need to rank every single logo, just the ones you care about and then you leave the rest at the default rank. -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:bulat.zigans...@gmail.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello Sebastian, Monday, March 9, 2009, 1:08:50 PM, you wrote: i think we should make 2-stage voting, like in F1 after 1st stage we will know which logos are most popular and therefore are real candidates, so we can select among them Sounds reasonable, although I thought that those advanced voting systems are also intended for avoiding multiple elections. Then again, if both elections lead to the same ranking at the top, and especially yield the same top candidate, then this proves the soundness of the method. On the other hand, a dictatorship would also satisfy this property. Yes, I know, there was a Nobel Prize about that ... ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.comwrote: Hello Sebastian, Monday, March 9, 2009, 1:08:50 PM, you wrote: i think we should make 2-stage voting, like in F1 after 1st stage we will know which logos are most popular and therefore are real candidates, so we can select among them One of the reasons condorcet voting is good is that this isn't needed. If everyone is consistent in which logos they prefer the results from second voting stage will be identical to just picking the condorcet voting from the first stage. The interface to the condorcet voting site is actually pretty good (try out one of the samples), so it's pretty easy to just move to top the ones you prefer and move the ones you dislike to the bottom. Then you can ignore the vast majority of don't care logos in the middle, and just fine tune your ranking at the top and bottom. -- Sebastian Sylvan +44(0)7857-300802 UIN: 44640862 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Sebastian Sylvan sebastian.syl...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Sebastian, Monday, March 9, 2009, 1:08:50 PM, you wrote: i think we should make 2-stage voting, like in F1 after 1st stage we will know which logos are most popular and therefore are real candidates, so we can select among them One of the reasons condorcet voting is good is that this isn't needed. If everyone is consistent in which logos they prefer the results from second voting stage will be identical to just picking the condorcet voting from the first stage. picking the condorcet winner -- Sebastian Sylvan +44(0)7857-300802 UIN: 44640862 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
2009/3/9 Sebastian Sylvan sebastian.syl...@gmail.com On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Sebastian, Monday, March 9, 2009, 1:08:50 PM, you wrote: i think we should make 2-stage voting, like in F1 after 1st stage we will know which logos are most popular and therefore are real candidates, so we can select among them One of the reasons condorcet voting is good is that this isn't needed. If everyone is consistent in which logos they prefer the results from second voting stage will be identical to just picking the condorcet voting from the first stage. The interface to the condorcet voting site is actually pretty good (try out one of the samples), so it's pretty easy to just move to top the ones you prefer and move the ones you dislike to the bottom. Then you can ignore the vast majority of don't care logos in the middle, and just fine tune your ranking at the top and bottom. With so many candidates, I think a two-stage process would be helpful. For example, what if a variant of a logo I liked ended up being popular, but I missed that one and didn't rank it (not unreasonable, there are a hundred logos). After the top candidates have been selected, I will surely notice it up there. Of course, introducing multi-stage voting breaks some of the properties we'd like a voting system to have. But, alas, you (provably) can't have it all :-) Luke ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 10:08 +, Sebastian Sylvan wrote: But the point is that you shouldn't need to rank every single logo, just the ones you care about and then you leave the rest at the default rank. You'll also want to rank the popular ones even if you don't like them. -- Ashley Yakeley ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Luke Palmer lrpal...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/3/9 Sebastian Sylvan sebastian.syl...@gmail.com On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Sebastian, Monday, March 9, 2009, 1:08:50 PM, you wrote: i think we should make 2-stage voting, like in F1 after 1st stage we will know which logos are most popular and therefore are real candidates, so we can select among them One of the reasons condorcet voting is good is that this isn't needed. If everyone is consistent in which logos they prefer the results from second voting stage will be identical to just picking the condorcet voting from the first stage. The interface to the condorcet voting site is actually pretty good (try out one of the samples), so it's pretty easy to just move to top the ones you prefer and move the ones you dislike to the bottom. Then you can ignore the vast majority of don't care logos in the middle, and just fine tune your ranking at the top and bottom. With so many candidates, I think a two-stage process would be helpful. For example, what if a variant of a logo I liked ended up being popular, but I missed that one and didn't rank it (not unreasonable, there are a hundred logos). After the top candidates have been selected, I will surely notice it up there. Of course, introducing multi-stage voting breaks some of the properties we'd like a voting system to have. But, alas, you (provably) can't have it all :-) It just seems like duplicated work to me. They're still few enough that I can scan through them and multi-select the ones I like and then click move to top in a pretty short amount of time (and then refine the ranking if I care). Having to vote twice just seems like a lot of extra effort for questionable added benefit. Maybe one vote requires people to be more careful about their rank (though you'd hope that any minor mistakes, such as the one you describe, would be random and therefore roughly cancel out over a few hundred votes), but at least it won't require them to vote twice. I say leave the plan the way it is. It's Good Enough (TM). The hassles of more delays while we go through an arduous processes isn't worth any theoretical minor gains. -- Sebastian Sylvan +44(0)7857-300802 UIN: 44640862 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[4]: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
Hello Sebastian, Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 1:08:38 AM, you wrote: It just seems like duplicated work to me. They're still few enough that I can scan through them and multi-select the ones I like and then click move to top in a pretty short amount of time (and then refine the ranking if I care). and if none of them will be among 10 most popular - it is no difference for you which one will be finally selected? -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:bulat.zigans...@gmail.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[4]: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.comwrote: Hello Sebastian, Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 1:08:38 AM, you wrote: It just seems like duplicated work to me. They're still few enough that I can scan through them and multi-select the ones I like and then click move to top in a pretty short amount of time (and then refine the ranking if I care). and if none of them will be among 10 most popular - it is no difference for you which one will be finally selected? Clearly not, because if I did have a preference among them I would've ranked them - if I didn't then I must not care either way. I suspect 99% will have a few favourites, and then they will have a few that they object to, and for the rest they just don't care which ones win. Expressing that with the proposed system is easy. -- Sebastian Sylvan +44(0)7857-300802 UIN: 44640862 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re[4]: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:38 PM, Sebastian Sylvan sebastian.syl...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Sebastian, Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 1:08:38 AM, you wrote: It just seems like duplicated work to me. They're still few enough that I can scan through them and multi-select the ones I like and then click move to top in a pretty short amount of time (and then refine the ranking if I care). and if none of them will be among 10 most popular - it is no difference for you which one will be finally selected? Clearly not, because if I did have a preference among them I would've ranked them - if I didn't then I must not care either way. I suspect 99% will have a few favourites, and then they will have a few that they object to, and for the rest they just don't care which ones win. Expressing that with the proposed system is easy. Also, let's be realistic. We can all look at the list and figure out which logos are likely to be popular - so just make sure you rank those. Adding even more time and hassle for the people who are already donating their time to arrange this for free isn't going to improve things significantly, I think. -- Sebastian Sylvan +44(0)7857-300802 UIN: 44640862 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
Eelco Lempsink wrote: The list with options can be found here (for now): http://community.haskell.org/~eelco/poll.html Notice that some (very) similar logos are grouped as one option (thanks to Ian Lynagh) All submissions compete, so that still makes more than a 100 options! The voting system we'll use is the Condorcet Internet Voting System (http://www.cs.cornell.edu/andru/civs.html). So ranking all 100+ items on the Condorcet ballot is a bit of a daunting task. However, if we get a rough idea of the favourites, we can each cut down a bit on the work. For instance, suppose 82 and 93 are very popular. You might not like either of them, but it's worth ranking them on your ballot (after the ones you do like) if you have a preference between them. But there's less need to rank the ones no-one likes. I'm currently liking 30 (specifically, 30.7) 58 61 (specifically, the second image) 62 -- Ashley Yakeley ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
Another alternative, perhaps we rank the first n we care about, and regard the rest as ranked as low as possible? Since Condorcet allows ties, it should work -- I don't know if it _technically_ allows for skipping ranks, though, but I imagine it would still work... Ashley Yakeley wrote: Eelco Lempsink wrote: The list with options can be found here (for now): http://community.haskell.org/~eelco/poll.html Notice that some (very) similar logos are grouped as one option (thanks to Ian Lynagh) All submissions compete, so that still makes more than a 100 options! The voting system we'll use is the Condorcet Internet Voting System (http://www.cs.cornell.edu/andru/civs.html). So ranking all 100+ items on the Condorcet ballot is a bit of a daunting task. However, if we get a rough idea of the favourites, we can each cut down a bit on the work. For instance, suppose 82 and 93 are very popular. You might not like either of them, but it's worth ranking them on your ballot (after the ones you do like) if you have a preference between them. But there's less need to rank the ones no-one likes. I'm currently liking 30 (specifically, 30.7) 58 61 (specifically, the second image) 62 begin:vcard fn:Joseph Fredette n:Fredette;Joseph adr:Apartment #3;;6 Dean Street;Worcester;Massachusetts;01609;United States of America email;internet:jfred...@gmail.com tel;home:1-508-966-9889 tel;cell:1-508-254-9901 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:lowlymath.net, humbuggery.net version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
2009/3/9 Joseph Fredette jfred...@gmail.com Another alternative, perhaps we rank the first n we care about, and regard the rest as ranked as low as possible? Since Condorcet allows ties, it should work -- I don't know if it _technically_ allows for skipping ranks, though, but I imagine it would still work... Only the relative ranking of the options in your ballot should matter; so there's really no such thing as skipping a rank. However, I am not familiar with the CIVS implementation specifically, so don't take my assertion as authoritative. -- mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Logo Preferences
Excerpts from Ashley Yakeley's message of Sun Mar 08 17:19:43 -0600 2009: Eelco Lempsink wrote: The list with options can be found here (for now): http://community.haskell.org/~eelco/poll.html Notice that some (very) similar logos are grouped as one option (thanks to Ian Lynagh) All submissions compete, so that still makes more than a 100 options! The voting system we'll use is the Condorcet Internet Voting System (http://www.cs.cornell.edu/andru/civs.html). I'm currently liking 61 (specifically, the second image) Forgive my asking for even more options here, (plenty of paint to cover the shed as it is), but regarding 61, a couple of those are in my top few, while the rest rank considerably lower. Would it be possible to distinguish them like the ones in 30? No worries if not, seems there may need to be some refinement process after this round anyway. -- wmw ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
