RE: Re[2]: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Nothing will stop people from making copies of software, nothing. However, when if somebody comes to you and asks if they can include your work on/in whatever (like a magazine) then that's ok. I was recently quoted in a magazine without my permission which pissed me off. Also, you recommend implementation of a protection system, but how does that apply to a downloadable game? I also don't have any faith in any kind of CD or copy-protection, because simply, there is a way around it. >From CCD copies to actually copying the CD byte-for-byte. -Philip > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of > Vyacheslav Djura > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 8:17 PM > To: Philip > > Hello Philip, > > I don't think that GPL will stop such people. > One CD costs less then .75 cents and printing CD case also > not a problem. > > I see there only several ways of solving the problem: > 1) you can email some PC magazine, asking them to include > your mod on their CD (if they have CD :))...That doesn't stop > someone making money from your mod. But at least your mod > will be distributed with some number of magazine and no-one > will *make* money from it. > > 2) mod must be brilliant. THen you contact VALVE and...:) But > that also doesn't stop pirates from making copies of CD's. > Almost all protection system that USA game developers use are > primitive...(for example Blue-Shift's sony protection). > > I CAN RECOMMEND VALVE PEOPLE VERY GOOD PROTECTION SYSTEM. A > lot of people of our company (Deep-Shadows) worked on GSC > Game World (maybe heard game Cossacks? AMerican Conquest? > Codename: Outbreak. Venom) and all the games which were > distributed in former USSR countries where equipted with > STAR-FORCE (www.star-force.com) protection system. The > earliest version of protection was hacked, but next version > (released in summer of 2001) was much stronger, and I' > haven't seen any pirate copies because it is still not > hacked. Now they released third version of Star-Force > protection and such brands as Cossacks: Back to war, American > Conquest, released month ago, equipted with this system. > With Star-Force protection you can't make any CD-R copies of > the game > > I compared US(Usa) and UA(Ukrainian) versions of Venom and > tried to make CD-copies. US copy (equipted with Virgin's > protection) was succesfully hacked, and game recognized CD-R > as own CD and UA version haven't recognized CD-R... > > -- > Vyacheslav > Xenus Level-designer > Deep-Shadows(http://www.deep-shadows.com) > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re[2]: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
Hello Philip, I don't think that GPL will stop such people. One CD costs less then .75 cents and printing CD case also not a problem. I see there only several ways of solving the problem: 1) you can email some PC magazine, asking them to include your mod on their CD (if they have CD :))...That doesn't stop someone making money from your mod. But at least your mod will be distributed with some number of magazine and no-one will *make* money from it. 2) mod must be brilliant. THen you contact VALVE and...:) But that also doesn't stop pirates from making copies of CD's. Almost all protection system that USA game developers use are primitive...(for example Blue-Shift's sony protection). I CAN RECOMMEND VALVE PEOPLE VERY GOOD PROTECTION SYSTEM. A lot of people of our company (Deep-Shadows) worked on GSC Game World (maybe heard game Cossacks? AMerican Conquest? Codename: Outbreak. Venom) and all the games which were distributed in former USSR countries where equipted with STAR-FORCE (www.star-force.com) protection system. The earliest version of protection was hacked, but next version (released in summer of 2001) was much stronger, and I' haven't seen any pirate copies because it is still not hacked. Now they released third version of Star-Force protection and such brands as Cossacks: Back to war, American Conquest, released month ago, equipted with this system. With Star-Force protection you can't make any CD-R copies of the game I compared US(Usa) and UA(Ukrainian) versions of Venom and tried to make CD-copies. US copy (equipted with Virgin's protection) was succesfully hacked, and game recognized CD-R as own CD and UA version haven't recognized CD-R... -- Vyacheslav Xenus Level-designer Deep-Shadows(http://www.deep-shadows.com) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re[2]: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
Hello Erik, Okay Erik, and can you help if so happens in Russia or Ukraine for example? I also saw a lot of CD's with mods on itLots of mods are solved in this way and (you'll maybe be surprised) THEY (people who sell this) sometimes even translate mods in russian... btw, Erik...Do you know how many kinds of russian version of HL I saw there? there 5 of them if I am not mistaken :( and they cut it, include some other stuff (usually CStrike + Botman's bot + etc.etc.etc)... Maybe someday somehow if you want I can buy one and send you...Or just scan the case. Good that such companies as SoftClub got contracts withhh (Sierra I suppose) to distribute license BOX version of HL (in English, but all manuals are in russian)...I have BOX - Half-Life: GENERATION which includes 4 cd's - Half-Life, Op4, BShift and CStrike + Manual...etc. -- Vyacheslav Xenus Level-designer Deep-Shadows(http://www.deep-shadows.com) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Saving and the HLSDK
Surely you have read the original message, and have seen that this is not the only or even the primary issue. In any case, saving cannot realistically be implemented for some entities, such as the introductory camera sequence's particle systems, due to significant portions of the code having to be entirely client-side. If I could spirit the problem away with a few save/restore macros, I obviously wouldn't have asked the question in the first place, and would simply have done that. - Original Message - From: "Avatar-X" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 12:28 AM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Saving and the HLSDK > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Surely you could make your entities still work when saved, i mean, the > whole point of the saving is that it restores it to the exact state it > was before. > > -av > > Cortex wrote: > > >Oups, I didn't notice that lol > >sorry :\ > > > > - Cortex : HL ALBATOR coder & mapper > > - [EMAIL PROTECTED] & ICQ : 71548738 > > > >Philip wrote: > > > > > >>You can still get to the menu by pressing ESC. > >> > >> > >> > >>>-Original Message- > >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Cortex > >>>Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 8:40 PM > >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> > >>>You could do : > >>>CLIENT_COMMAND (pPlayer->pev, "unbindall"); (where pPlayer is > >>>a pointer to the player). > >>> > >>>Then, all the keys won't have any effect. Then, after the end > >>>of the sequence, you call : > >>>CLIENT_COMMAND (pPlayer->pev, "exec config.cfg"); and all the > >>>binds will reappear :p > >>> > >>> - Cortex : HL ALBATOR coder & mapper > >>> - [EMAIL PROTECTED] & ICQ : 71548738 > >>> > >>>Ryan "Professional Victim" Desgroseilliers wrote: > >>> > >>> > I've run into something of a problem during my coding work for the > Nightwatch mod, regarding the way Half-Life handles saving. > > > >>>There are > >>> > >>> > a few situations where saves of any kind would be quite problematic > both programmatically and from a design standpoint, such as the > introductory camera sequence, and I've been trying for some time to > find a way to stop players from saving at those points > > > >>>using the SDK, > >>> > >>> > with no luck. Since this is a single player mod and cheating isn't > really an issue, the Quick Save functionality can probably > > > >>>be worked > >>> > >>> > around fairly easily by simply removing the bind option, but I can > find no way to stop saves initiated from the menu interface. > > Does anyone know of a way that the engine could be prevented from > accepting save commands? > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the > > > >>>list archives, > >>> > >>> > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > >>>___ > >>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>archives, please visit: > >>>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>___ > >>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>archives, please visit: > >>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > >> > > > > > >___ > >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
Well, the thing is that most MODs aren't under the GPL and when it comes to getting money for it, then that's Valve's area. However, then it becomes a bit like Linux, when you're not supposed to sell it, but the box and manual and cd all cost around about $90, and don't forget the proprietary software somebody wrote for it (that's such an integral part of the OS that we can't take it out). Fileplanet does provide the files free of charge (which is more a matter of perspective) using CDs as a viable option to those who don't want to suffer the wrath of FP and the price for those is not extravagant. But 10 GBP?!!? Unless it CDs are coated in silver and jewel case is made of platinum (well, maybe not) then that's hardly _just_ charging for the cd and case (we must also factor in hours of agonizingly hard labor). But when you put something on the internet, that's kind of the risk you take, especially when you allow it to be downloaded under the misconception that it's freeware (or under any other license which it's not). Unless you put a huge legal disclaimer (and don't forget the huge flashing letters about it) there's very little you can do (unless the awesome power of Valve's legal department steps in). -Philip > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Admin > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 7:46 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > If your mod is made under GPL it is not protected from being > electronically copied and distributed. The license is > actually setup to encourage distribution as long as the > provisions of the license are met. > If the people selling the CD say they are not selling the > software they are simply charging for the media, jewel case, > shipping handling etc they have a leg to stand on. Same with > file planet, they actually provide free access to the files, > it's just that if you don't want to wait 3 hours you pay them > money and they provide a no wait server for you. Again not > charging for the software but instead charging for an > improved distribution mechanism. > > Software companies protect themselves from this by including > statements in their copyrights stating it is unlawful to copy > (electronic or > otherwise) the software. The kicker is if you were to do this > for GPL it kills the whole concept behind GPL and would > freeze the distribution. > > My Two cents: > - If someone is providing the public the impression they are "selling" > your GPL software, then stop them with legal letters and > lawsuits if necessary. > > - If you are mad that someone is making money off the > distribution of your GPL software and you are not, don't > create GPL software. > > Remember, the stronger the distribution channels the more > people see our software. How are people that don't have > internet access going to gain access to our mods? Are each of > us going to pay out of our own pockets the money to burn CD's > and ship them all over the world? > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Commando > Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 10:46 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! > > It does kind-of irk me that these guys are making so much > money off of our hard work, but is it really anything > different than organizations like fileplanet does? They are > charging you for downloading and making a CD copy for you, > not for the games themselves (or so they could argue). > > Maybe the question we should be asking is if it is okay for > us to do the same sorts of things to recoup some of our > costs? As long as mods continue to be freely available to > download, can we set up services to distribute the mod on CD > for a small fee to customers that prefer not to download > 100+ > meg? Not that I had even thought of this before now, but it > might be a way for some mods to pay for some of the bandwidth > required to host mod sites and fund development. > > Rob Prouse (Commando) > Tour of Duty Mod > http://www.tourofdutymod.com > > At 02:01 PM 29/12/2002 +, you wrote: > >This maybe a little OT, but in any case it affects a lot of us > > > >I recently went to a "computer fair" here in the UK, one stand was > selling > >lots of obviously "copied" CD's... The Quality of the CD Labels and > Inserts > >were infact diabolical.. > > > >I stumbled across a CD with several HL mod's on it... the > main picture > was > >of Counter Stirke the mods were listed on the back, amongst the > mods > >were my own mod "Wanted", as well as lots of other popular > mods, Action > HL, > >DoD etc..etc... too many to list... but the vendor was illegally > selling the > >CD's for £10.00 GBP. > > > >When I confronted the seller asking what permission he had > for selling > these > >mod's.. he stated they were all free-ware... I know this is not the > case, > >although Mods are avaliable freely for download, it is not legal to > re-sell > >them... So I
OT: Fee-based distribution (WAS Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!)
Unfortunately this is the way of the world. A grass roots effort (GameSpy/FilePlanet) finds popularity and growth, and eventually morphs into a quasi-commercial endeavour. If you or I were at the helm I think we'd be hard-pressed to take a different approach. Another classic example is CNET. We all knew (the shareware development community) that it was only a matter of time before CNET decided to become a for-fee hosting service. But it still stung, and it's DRAMATICALLY altered the landscape of shareware distribution. The good news? Startup costs for internet services are slim to none, and 'something' will eventually fill the vacuum created when other services become fee-based. These new efforts may never achieve the same critical mass, and there will be a startup curve that we'll all have to live through, but until the very basic levels of internet connectivity become too costly (i.e. increased connectivity surcharges, federal regulation, etc) for the average techie at a university or liberally-minded corporation to start his or her own venture on the underused T3, I think we'll still have distribution channels available. Of course, I realize I have just painted a rather large, flaming target upon myself. So be it. :) - Buzz ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
The main problem with Fileplanet is that its trying more and more to shift people off the free downloads onto these premium servers which you pay for. Fair enough you say, well it is.. until the free servers decline both in number and quality. Fileplanet are also favourites for developers like VALVe to give their patches to first, you find that when a HLupdate is released, very few other sites have it, Fileplanet are trying to monopolise this. Another thing is the GameSpy ID, basically a way to tag and track what users download, as Fileplanet is linked with Gamespy, all their hosted sites are forced to use it as the storage for user downloadable files, which just helps it keep ahead of other game downloads sites. regards, Rob Harwood. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of botman Sent: 29 December 2002 20:07 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! > I was quite annoyed when they were suddenly hosting the beta of our > Eradicators mod the day after we released it. I never asked them to host > is, nor gave them permission to. I wanted to keep it hosted on our own > site so that I could track the number and location of downloads. Did you try contacting fileplanet.com to have them remove your file? Here's the legal agreement from the file submission page... Terms of Service for File Submission Page By submitting your file to FilePlanet, you agree to the terms listed below. 1. ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY By submitting this file to us, you acknowledge that you either know that the file has been made freely distributable by its owner, or that you are the owner of the file's intellectual property and that you are hereby granting us permission to distribute it. 2. DISTRIBUTION You grant FilePlanet the right to freely distribute it, without restriction, electronically or on CD-ROM/DVD, to our users. This includes those users who are subscribed to our premium download service. 3. POSTING AT FILEPLANET'S DISCRESSION FilePlanet makes no garuntees that the file will be accepted for posting on our site, or that it will remain on the site for any period of time. We reserve the right to reject or remove files at our own discression. ...notice the part that says "you acknowledge that you either know that the file has been made freely distributable by its owner, or that you are the owner of the file's intellectual property and that you are hereby granting us permission to distribute it." (also notice that they can't spell "guarantee"). :) If you didn't make the file freely distributable (whatever that means) or you are the intellectual property holder and you don't give them permission, they would have to remove the file (based on their own terms of service agreement). If you didn't bother to contact them, then they had no way of knowing that you didn't want them to host the file. Most people have the other problem, they have a file that they want fileplanet.com to host so they won't have to pay for the download bandwidth charges when 100,000 people download the file from their personal web site. On another note (not directed at the original author or anyone in particular), everyone complains about how much fileplanet.com sucks. Gamespy does a great service to the MOD community by hosting web sites for MODs and making download servers available to distribute MODs, demos, movies, etc. I wonder how many MODs would never have become publicly available if they were forced to pay an Internet hosting service to host their MODs and pay for the download bandwidth every month. I had been kicked off of free web hosting sites because people downloading files from my web site were exceeding the monthly bandwidth limit, and I wasn't hosting files any larger than 5 or 6 megabytes. I would hate to think what the download bandwidth charges would be for something like Counter-Strike in the BETA version days when they released a new MOD. Having thousands of people swamp your server trying to download a file 24 hours a day for the first couple of weeks after a MOD is released doesn't sound like something I'd want to have to pay for. When fileplanet.com introduced the download queue, people whined about that to no end. Having the download queue makes it MUCH more fair for everyone attempting to download a file. You decide you want to get something, you wait in line, then, when it's your turn, you get what you wanted. How many banks or grocery stores or other businesses have a system where everyone who wants something all tries to get it at the same time and only one or two of them are lucky enough to be picked to complete their transaction? Not any that I'm aware of, in all of these businesses, you stand in line (or queue up) and get handled in the order that you came in. Sure fileplanet.com charges to create CDs and they have the monthly (or yearly) charge for members that have download servers reserved just for th
Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
> I was quite annoyed when they were suddenly hosting the beta of our > Eradicators mod the day after we released it. I never asked them to host > is, nor gave them permission to. I wanted to keep it hosted on our own > site so that I could track the number and location of downloads. Did you try contacting fileplanet.com to have them remove your file? Here's the legal agreement from the file submission page... Terms of Service for File Submission Page By submitting your file to FilePlanet, you agree to the terms listed below. 1. ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY By submitting this file to us, you acknowledge that you either know that the file has been made freely distributable by its owner, or that you are the owner of the file's intellectual property and that you are hereby granting us permission to distribute it. 2. DISTRIBUTION You grant FilePlanet the right to freely distribute it, without restriction, electronically or on CD-ROM/DVD, to our users. This includes those users who are subscribed to our premium download service. 3. POSTING AT FILEPLANET'S DISCRESSION FilePlanet makes no garuntees that the file will be accepted for posting on our site, or that it will remain on the site for any period of time. We reserve the right to reject or remove files at our own discression. ...notice the part that says "you acknowledge that you either know that the file has been made freely distributable by its owner, or that you are the owner of the file's intellectual property and that you are hereby granting us permission to distribute it." (also notice that they can't spell "guarantee"). :) If you didn't make the file freely distributable (whatever that means) or you are the intellectual property holder and you don't give them permission, they would have to remove the file (based on their own terms of service agreement). If you didn't bother to contact them, then they had no way of knowing that you didn't want them to host the file. Most people have the other problem, they have a file that they want fileplanet.com to host so they won't have to pay for the download bandwidth charges when 100,000 people download the file from their personal web site. On another note (not directed at the original author or anyone in particular), everyone complains about how much fileplanet.com sucks. Gamespy does a great service to the MOD community by hosting web sites for MODs and making download servers available to distribute MODs, demos, movies, etc. I wonder how many MODs would never have become publicly available if they were forced to pay an Internet hosting service to host their MODs and pay for the download bandwidth every month. I had been kicked off of free web hosting sites because people downloading files from my web site were exceeding the monthly bandwidth limit, and I wasn't hosting files any larger than 5 or 6 megabytes. I would hate to think what the download bandwidth charges would be for something like Counter-Strike in the BETA version days when they released a new MOD. Having thousands of people swamp your server trying to download a file 24 hours a day for the first couple of weeks after a MOD is released doesn't sound like something I'd want to have to pay for. When fileplanet.com introduced the download queue, people whined about that to no end. Having the download queue makes it MUCH more fair for everyone attempting to download a file. You decide you want to get something, you wait in line, then, when it's your turn, you get what you wanted. How many banks or grocery stores or other businesses have a system where everyone who wants something all tries to get it at the same time and only one or two of them are lucky enough to be picked to complete their transaction? Not any that I'm aware of, in all of these businesses, you stand in line (or queue up) and get handled in the order that you came in. Sure fileplanet.com charges to create CDs and they have the monthly (or yearly) charge for members that have download servers reserved just for them . But they also have public servers that don't require any monthly or yearly fee. All you have to do is sign up with a free account so that they can track how many people are using their service. A small price to pay for the ability to download huge files at very high download bandwidths. If you don't like fileplanet, that's fine. Don't use them. But there aren't that many alternatives where you can go to download the latest demos, movies or MODs. Sure you can try using bluesnews.com, or fileshack.com or any of the other gaming news sites, but on many of them, it's more of a hit or miss kind of thing trying to get a file you wanted and many times (not always) the bandwidth is between 10Kbps and 20Kbps (especially when the server is heavily loaded). With fileplanet.com, you click on the file you want, wait in line for 30 or 45 minutes, turn on the TV, crack open a cold one, and wait for the little download sound to indicate th
Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
I was quite annoyed when they were suddenly hosting the beta of our Eradicators mod the day after we released it. I never asked them to host is, nor gave them permission to. I wanted to keep it hosted on our own site so that I could track the number and location of downloads. - Original Message - From: "MoD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! GameSpyNetwork == money. It's very subtle, but each of the plant sites is filled with comemrciality, they only refer to the inferior GameSpy3D, only give FilePlanet links, etc. etc. When you put out for them to host your files, you should realise they're cutting a coupon on your back. -- MoD, Always @ your service. - Original Message - From: "Miguel Alemán" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! Fileplanet frankly angers me. How could they so directly capitalize off of the work of others? Please, how much does it cost to access your database and then burn some files on a CD. Its probably completely automated and requires little to no human intervention. I don't see how what that CD dealer is doing is any better than what Fileplanet does on a daily basis. - Original Message - From: "Commando" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! It does kind-of irk me that these guys are making so much money off of our hard work, but is it really anything different than organizations like fileplanet does? They are charging you for downloading and making a CD copy for you, not for the games themselves (or so they could argue). Maybe the question we should be asking is if it is okay for us to do the same sorts of things to recoup some of our costs? As long as mods continue to be freely available to download, can we set up services to distribute the mod on CD for a small fee to customers that prefer not to download 100+ meg? Not that I had even thought of this before now, but it might be a way for some mods to pay for some of the bandwidth required to host mod sites and fund development. Rob Prouse (Commando) Tour of Duty Mod http://www.tourofdutymod.com At 02:01 PM 29/12/2002 +, you wrote: >This maybe a little OT, but in any case it affects a lot of us > >I recently went to a "computer fair" here in the UK, one stand was selling >lots of obviously "copied" CD's... The Quality of the CD Labels and Inserts >were infact diabolical.. > >I stumbled across a CD with several HL mod's on it... the main picture was >of Counter Stirke the mods were listed on the back, amongst the mods >were my own mod "Wanted", as well as lots of other popular mods, Action HL, >DoD etc..etc... too many to list... but the vendor was illegally selling the >CD's for £10.00 GBP. > >When I confronted the seller asking what permission he had for selling these >mod's.. he stated they were all free-ware... I know this is not the case, >although Mods are avaliable freely for download, it is not legal to re-sell >them... So I want to know what you people think of this... I know that many >of us don't get a penny for all the time and effort we put in to creating >these mods, but it drives me mad to think that someone else is just >downloading them, cutting them to disc and making money out of doing so. > >I forced the seller to give me the details of the person who he gets them >from, which I now have. (although I only have a name and UK Telephone >number). > >What are your thoughts ? > >Mike. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
If your mod is made under GPL it is not protected from being electronically copied and distributed. The license is actually setup to encourage distribution as long as the provisions of the license are met. If the people selling the CD say they are not selling the software they are simply charging for the media, jewel case, shipping handling etc they have a leg to stand on. Same with file planet, they actually provide free access to the files, it's just that if you don't want to wait 3 hours you pay them money and they provide a no wait server for you. Again not charging for the software but instead charging for an improved distribution mechanism. Software companies protect themselves from this by including statements in their copyrights stating it is unlawful to copy (electronic or otherwise) the software. The kicker is if you were to do this for GPL it kills the whole concept behind GPL and would freeze the distribution. My Two cents: - If someone is providing the public the impression they are "selling" your GPL software, then stop them with legal letters and lawsuits if necessary. - If you are mad that someone is making money off the distribution of your GPL software and you are not, don't create GPL software. Remember, the stronger the distribution channels the more people see our software. How are people that don't have internet access going to gain access to our mods? Are each of us going to pay out of our own pockets the money to burn CD's and ship them all over the world? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Commando Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 10:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! It does kind-of irk me that these guys are making so much money off of our hard work, but is it really anything different than organizations like fileplanet does? They are charging you for downloading and making a CD copy for you, not for the games themselves (or so they could argue). Maybe the question we should be asking is if it is okay for us to do the same sorts of things to recoup some of our costs? As long as mods continue to be freely available to download, can we set up services to distribute the mod on CD for a small fee to customers that prefer not to download 100+ meg? Not that I had even thought of this before now, but it might be a way for some mods to pay for some of the bandwidth required to host mod sites and fund development. Rob Prouse (Commando) Tour of Duty Mod http://www.tourofdutymod.com At 02:01 PM 29/12/2002 +, you wrote: >This maybe a little OT, but in any case it affects a lot of us > >I recently went to a "computer fair" here in the UK, one stand was selling >lots of obviously "copied" CD's... The Quality of the CD Labels and Inserts >were infact diabolical.. > >I stumbled across a CD with several HL mod's on it... the main picture was >of Counter Stirke the mods were listed on the back, amongst the mods >were my own mod "Wanted", as well as lots of other popular mods, Action HL, >DoD etc..etc... too many to list... but the vendor was illegally selling the >CD's for £10.00 GBP. > >When I confronted the seller asking what permission he had for selling these >mod's.. he stated they were all free-ware... I know this is not the case, >although Mods are avaliable freely for download, it is not legal to re-sell >them... So I want to know what you people think of this... I know that many >of us don't get a penny for all the time and effort we put in to creating >these mods, but it drives me mad to think that someone else is just >downloading them, cutting them to disc and making money out of doing so. > >I forced the seller to give me the details of the person who he gets them >from, which I now have. (although I only have a name and UK Telephone >number). > >What are your thoughts ? > >Mike. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
I know it hurts, but the best thing to do is to purchase the product and mail it on to us. We'll pursue these kinds of things. Erik -Original Message- From: Mike "Beamish" Blowers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 6:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! This maybe a little OT, but in any case it affects a lot of us I recently went to a "computer fair" here in the UK, one stand was selling lots of obviously "copied" CD's... The Quality of the CD Labels and Inserts were infact diabolical.. I stumbled across a CD with several HL mod's on it... the main picture was of Counter Stirke the mods were listed on the back, amongst the mods were my own mod "Wanted", as well as lots of other popular mods, Action HL, DoD etc..etc... too many to list... but the vendor was illegally selling the CD's for £10.00 GBP. When I confronted the seller asking what permission he had for selling these mod's.. he stated they were all free-ware... I know this is not the case, although Mods are avaliable freely for download, it is not legal to re-sell them... So I want to know what you people think of this... I know that many of us don't get a penny for all the time and effort we put in to creating these mods, but it drives me mad to think that someone else is just downloading them, cutting them to disc and making money out of doing so. I forced the seller to give me the details of the person who he gets them from, which I now have. (although I only have a name and UK Telephone number). What are your thoughts ? Mike. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
GameSpyNetwork == money. It's very subtle, but each of the plant sites is filled with comemrciality, they only refer to the inferior GameSpy3D, only give FilePlanet links, etc. etc. When you put out for them to host your files, you should realise they're cutting a coupon on your back. -- MoD, Always @ your service. - Original Message - From: "Miguel Alemán" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! Fileplanet frankly angers me. How could they so directly capitalize off of the work of others? Please, how much does it cost to access your database and then burn some files on a CD. Its probably completely automated and requires little to no human intervention. I don't see how what that CD dealer is doing is any better than what Fileplanet does on a daily basis. - Original Message - From: "Commando" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! It does kind-of irk me that these guys are making so much money off of our hard work, but is it really anything different than organizations like fileplanet does? They are charging you for downloading and making a CD copy for you, not for the games themselves (or so they could argue). Maybe the question we should be asking is if it is okay for us to do the same sorts of things to recoup some of our costs? As long as mods continue to be freely available to download, can we set up services to distribute the mod on CD for a small fee to customers that prefer not to download 100+ meg? Not that I had even thought of this before now, but it might be a way for some mods to pay for some of the bandwidth required to host mod sites and fund development. Rob Prouse (Commando) Tour of Duty Mod http://www.tourofdutymod.com At 02:01 PM 29/12/2002 +, you wrote: >This maybe a little OT, but in any case it affects a lot of us > >I recently went to a "computer fair" here in the UK, one stand was selling >lots of obviously "copied" CD's... The Quality of the CD Labels and Inserts >were infact diabolical.. > >I stumbled across a CD with several HL mod's on it... the main picture was >of Counter Stirke the mods were listed on the back, amongst the mods >were my own mod "Wanted", as well as lots of other popular mods, Action HL, >DoD etc..etc... too many to list... but the vendor was illegally selling the >CD's for £10.00 GBP. > >When I confronted the seller asking what permission he had for selling these >mod's.. he stated they were all free-ware... I know this is not the case, >although Mods are avaliable freely for download, it is not legal to re-sell >them... So I want to know what you people think of this... I know that many >of us don't get a penny for all the time and effort we put in to creating >these mods, but it drives me mad to think that someone else is just >downloading them, cutting them to disc and making money out of doing so. > >I forced the seller to give me the details of the person who he gets them >from, which I now have. (although I only have a name and UK Telephone >number). > >What are your thoughts ? > >Mike. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
Fileplanet frankly angers me. How could they so directly capitalize off of the work of others? Please, how much does it cost to access your database and then burn some files on a CD. Its probably completely automated and requires little to no human intervention. I don't see how what that CD dealer is doing is any better than what Fileplanet does on a daily basis. - Original Message - From: "Commando" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! It does kind-of irk me that these guys are making so much money off of our hard work, but is it really anything different than organizations like fileplanet does? They are charging you for downloading and making a CD copy for you, not for the games themselves (or so they could argue). Maybe the question we should be asking is if it is okay for us to do the same sorts of things to recoup some of our costs? As long as mods continue to be freely available to download, can we set up services to distribute the mod on CD for a small fee to customers that prefer not to download 100+ meg? Not that I had even thought of this before now, but it might be a way for some mods to pay for some of the bandwidth required to host mod sites and fund development. Rob Prouse (Commando) Tour of Duty Mod http://www.tourofdutymod.com At 02:01 PM 29/12/2002 +, you wrote: >This maybe a little OT, but in any case it affects a lot of us > >I recently went to a "computer fair" here in the UK, one stand was selling >lots of obviously "copied" CD's... The Quality of the CD Labels and Inserts >were infact diabolical.. > >I stumbled across a CD with several HL mod's on it... the main picture was >of Counter Stirke the mods were listed on the back, amongst the mods >were my own mod "Wanted", as well as lots of other popular mods, Action HL, >DoD etc..etc... too many to list... but the vendor was illegally selling the >CD's for £10.00 GBP. > >When I confronted the seller asking what permission he had for selling these >mod's.. he stated they were all free-ware... I know this is not the case, >although Mods are avaliable freely for download, it is not legal to re-sell >them... So I want to know what you people think of this... I know that many >of us don't get a penny for all the time and effort we put in to creating >these mods, but it drives me mad to think that someone else is just >downloading them, cutting them to disc and making money out of doing so. > >I forced the seller to give me the details of the person who he gets them >from, which I now have. (although I only have a name and UK Telephone >number). > >What are your thoughts ? > >Mike. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
It does kind-of irk me that these guys are making so much money off of our hard work, but is it really anything different than organizations like fileplanet does? They are charging you for downloading and making a CD copy for you, not for the games themselves (or so they could argue). Maybe the question we should be asking is if it is okay for us to do the same sorts of things to recoup some of our costs? As long as mods continue to be freely available to download, can we set up services to distribute the mod on CD for a small fee to customers that prefer not to download 100+ meg? Not that I had even thought of this before now, but it might be a way for some mods to pay for some of the bandwidth required to host mod sites and fund development. Rob Prouse (Commando) Tour of Duty Mod http://www.tourofdutymod.com At 02:01 PM 29/12/2002 +, you wrote: This maybe a little OT, but in any case it affects a lot of us I recently went to a "computer fair" here in the UK, one stand was selling lots of obviously "copied" CD's... The Quality of the CD Labels and Inserts were infact diabolical.. I stumbled across a CD with several HL mod's on it... the main picture was of Counter Stirke the mods were listed on the back, amongst the mods were my own mod "Wanted", as well as lots of other popular mods, Action HL, DoD etc..etc... too many to list... but the vendor was illegally selling the CD's for £10.00 GBP. When I confronted the seller asking what permission he had for selling these mod's.. he stated they were all free-ware... I know this is not the case, although Mods are avaliable freely for download, it is not legal to re-sell them... So I want to know what you people think of this... I know that many of us don't get a penny for all the time and effort we put in to creating these mods, but it drives me mad to think that someone else is just downloading them, cutting them to disc and making money out of doing so. I forced the seller to give me the details of the person who he gets them from, which I now have. (although I only have a name and UK Telephone number). What are your thoughts ? Mike. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
tbh I doubt most customers would care anyways, you could have 'NOT TO BE SOLD ON CDS' in 30ft tall burning letters and most would ignore it and carry on regardless.. - Original Message - From: "Cortex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! An other solution would be to include in all the mods a "CANNOT BE SOLD" label in the installers... It wouldn't prevent the sellers to sell the CD, but the customer could ask the reseller for justification... - Cortex : HL ALBATOR coder & mapper - [EMAIL PROTECTED] & ICQ : 71548738 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
An other solution would be to include in all the mods a "CANNOT BE SOLD" label in the installers... It wouldn't prevent the sellers to sell the CD, but the customer could ask the reseller for justification... - Cortex : HL ALBATOR coder & mapper - [EMAIL PROTECTED] & ICQ : 71548738 Michael Shimmins wrote: > Write them a harsh Letter of Demand stating your intention to persue > legal action should they not stop what they are doing. > > This usually gets a good response, works even better if you have a law > firm to do it for you. > > Michael Shimmins > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mike > "Beamish" Blowers > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 1:02 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! > > > This maybe a little OT, but in any case it affects a lot of us > > I recently went to a "computer fair" here in the UK, one stand was > selling lots of obviously "copied" CD's... The Quality of the CD > Labels > and Inserts were infact diabolical.. > > I stumbled across a CD with several HL mod's on it... the main picture > was of Counter Stirke the mods were listed on the back, amongst > the > mods were my own mod "Wanted", as well as lots of other popular mods, > Action HL, DoD etc..etc... too many to list... but the vendor was > illegally selling the CD's for £10.00 GBP. > > When I confronted the seller asking what permission he had for selling > these mod's.. he stated they were all free-ware... I know this is not > the case, although Mods are avaliable freely for download, it is not > legal to re-sell them... So I want to know what you people think of > this... I know that many of us don't get a penny for all the time and > effort we put in to creating these mods, but it drives me mad to think > that someone else is just downloading them, cutting them to disc and > making money out of doing so. > > I forced the seller to give me the details of the person who he gets > them from, which I now have. (although I only have a name and UK > Telephone number). > > What are your thoughts ? > > Mike. > > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
Write them a harsh Letter of Demand stating your intention to persue legal action should they not stop what they are doing. This usually gets a good response, works even better if you have a law firm to do it for you. Michael Shimmins -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mike "Beamish" Blowers Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 1:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !! This maybe a little OT, but in any case it affects a lot of us I recently went to a "computer fair" here in the UK, one stand was selling lots of obviously "copied" CD's... The Quality of the CD Labels and Inserts were infact diabolical.. I stumbled across a CD with several HL mod's on it... the main picture was of Counter Stirke the mods were listed on the back, amongst the mods were my own mod "Wanted", as well as lots of other popular mods, Action HL, DoD etc..etc... too many to list... but the vendor was illegally selling the CD's for £10.00 GBP. When I confronted the seller asking what permission he had for selling these mod's.. he stated they were all free-ware... I know this is not the case, although Mods are avaliable freely for download, it is not legal to re-sell them... So I want to know what you people think of this... I know that many of us don't get a penny for all the time and effort we put in to creating these mods, but it drives me mad to think that someone else is just downloading them, cutting them to disc and making money out of doing so. I forced the seller to give me the details of the person who he gets them from, which I now have. (although I only have a name and UK Telephone number). What are your thoughts ? Mike. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Our MOD's are for sale !!
This maybe a little OT, but in any case it affects a lot of us I recently went to a "computer fair" here in the UK, one stand was selling lots of obviously "copied" CD's... The Quality of the CD Labels and Inserts were infact diabolical.. I stumbled across a CD with several HL mod's on it... the main picture was of Counter Stirke the mods were listed on the back, amongst the mods were my own mod "Wanted", as well as lots of other popular mods, Action HL, DoD etc..etc... too many to list... but the vendor was illegally selling the CD's for £10.00 GBP. When I confronted the seller asking what permission he had for selling these mod's.. he stated they were all free-ware... I know this is not the case, although Mods are avaliable freely for download, it is not legal to re-sell them... So I want to know what you people think of this... I know that many of us don't get a penny for all the time and effort we put in to creating these mods, but it drives me mad to think that someone else is just downloading them, cutting them to disc and making money out of doing so. I forced the seller to give me the details of the person who he gets them from, which I now have. (although I only have a name and UK Telephone number). What are your thoughts ? Mike. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Saving and the HLSDK
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Surely you could make your entities still work when saved, i mean, the whole point of the saving is that it restores it to the exact state it was before. -av Cortex wrote: >Oups, I didn't notice that lol >sorry :\ > > - Cortex : HL ALBATOR coder & mapper > - [EMAIL PROTECTED] & ICQ : 71548738 > >Philip wrote: > > >>You can still get to the menu by pressing ESC. >> >> >> >>>-Original Message- >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Cortex >>>Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 8:40 PM >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>>You could do : >>>CLIENT_COMMAND (pPlayer->pev, "unbindall"); (where pPlayer is >>>a pointer to the player). >>> >>>Then, all the keys won't have any effect. Then, after the end >>>of the sequence, you call : >>>CLIENT_COMMAND (pPlayer->pev, "exec config.cfg"); and all the >>>binds will reappear :p >>> >>> - Cortex : HL ALBATOR coder & mapper >>> - [EMAIL PROTECTED] & ICQ : 71548738 >>> >>>Ryan "Professional Victim" Desgroseilliers wrote: >>> >>> I've run into something of a problem during my coding work for the Nightwatch mod, regarding the way Half-Life handles saving. >>>There are >>> >>> a few situations where saves of any kind would be quite problematic both programmatically and from a design standpoint, such as the introductory camera sequence, and I've been trying for some time to find a way to stop players from saving at those points >>>using the SDK, >>> >>> with no luck. Since this is a single player mod and cheating isn't really an issue, the Quick Save functionality can probably >>>be worked >>> >>> around fairly easily by simply removing the bind option, but I can find no way to stop saves initiated from the menu interface. Does anyone know of a way that the engine could be prevented from accepting save commands? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the >>>list archives, >>> >>> please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>___ >>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>archives, please visit: >>>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>> >>> >>> >>> >>___ >>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>archives, please visit: >>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> > > >___ >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Saving and the HLSDK
Oups, I didn't notice that lol sorry :\ - Cortex : HL ALBATOR coder & mapper - [EMAIL PROTECTED] & ICQ : 71548738 Philip wrote: > You can still get to the menu by pressing ESC. > >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Cortex >> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 8:40 PM >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> You could do : >> CLIENT_COMMAND (pPlayer->pev, "unbindall"); (where pPlayer is >> a pointer to the player). >> >> Then, all the keys won't have any effect. Then, after the end >> of the sequence, you call : >> CLIENT_COMMAND (pPlayer->pev, "exec config.cfg"); and all the >> binds will reappear :p >> >> - Cortex : HL ALBATOR coder & mapper >> - [EMAIL PROTECTED] & ICQ : 71548738 >> >> Ryan "Professional Victim" Desgroseilliers wrote: >>> I've run into something of a problem during my coding work for the >>> Nightwatch mod, regarding the way Half-Life handles saving. >> There are >>> a few situations where saves of any kind would be quite problematic >>> both programmatically and from a design standpoint, such as the >>> introductory camera sequence, and I've been trying for some time to >>> find a way to stop players from saving at those points >> using the SDK, >>> with no luck. Since this is a single player mod and cheating isn't >>> really an issue, the Quick Save functionality can probably >> be worked >>> around fairly easily by simply removing the bind option, but I can >>> find no way to stop saves initiated from the menu interface. >>> >>> Does anyone know of a way that the engine could be prevented from >>> accepting save commands? >>> >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the >> list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
