Re: [hlcoders] DSP in source
Jay, Thanks for that, i am no longer contacting miles. I am glad to know the system is modular (i would eventually love to write my own DSP for the source engine), The information you gave regarding the operation of the reverb/delay line DSP would imply that absorption co-efficients are set by the material type, which is combined with the room geometry to calculate reverb time, so im assuming this is loosely based on the RT-60 formula? In which case, it would not account for cavities, or very irregularly shaped rooms (which are a nightmare to calculate for)? Are the effects based on the users position within the room, eg the delay lines/verb modeling impulse response from player location? A block diagram or description of the processes would be incredibly useful to my project, i am trying to summarise the current level of audio modeling in gaming engines and to discuss possible expansion of the technologies used, while also demonstrating application of the techniques (specifically in the Source engine and Portal's sound design). Im sure these details could be picked out of the code by licensees but as a student i cant currently afford one :( If you can suggest anyone at valve i could contact in regard to the sound design in portal i would be most appreciative! thanks for your work on many of my favourite games! Regards, Ant On 17 Jan 2008, at 21:17, Jay Stelly wrote: The DSP in Source is not done with Miles even though Miles does have a bunch of DSP features (and may be able to do the same thing). It's a custom modular system we built for HL2. There isn't currently a way to modify it without changing code. Licensees have access to this code but it isn't in the mod SDK. The automatic DSP algorithm uses surface material properties and geometry along with a custom controller to configure delay lines and reverb parameters. As I recall, we use Miles sound system for multiplayer voice codecs and mp3 playback as well as steam voice chat. Jay -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Mann Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:01 PM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] DSP in source Thank you!! that was an invaluable piece of information! You mention it is used for a 'large part of its playback' do you know exactly what extent the source engine controls the miles API's? or what version of the API is used? I am also contacting miles directly regarding this info, I have managed to find out a LOT more information already just from the details you provided again thanks very much Ant On 17 Jan 2008, at 06:50, Adam amckern McKern wrote: You would want to maybe email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and ask them about it as the source engine uses the miles sound system for a large part of its playback. Adam --- Anthony Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi again Im writing a paper at the moment on sound design for games and i have a few questions some of you may be able to help me out with! I have been enjoying manipulating and creating soundscapes in the hl2 engine, and have been using hammer since CS 1.4. I'm especially interested in the DSP built into the source engine. Does anyone know any details of how the DSP system calculates the echo/ reverb for the room size/room geometry? is it rt-60 based? is it modular? is it possible to add DSP code without a total re-compile? How are these DSP elements written? Does anyone also have any good resources on the sound engine used within source? i have found some sparse documentation, and the SDK references but i would love to know the workings on a lower level than these provide. Hope someone can point me in the right direction, Thanks Ant ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] DSP in source
Hm, might be reading it wrong. Adam --- "Jeffrey \"botman\" Broome" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Adam "amckern" McKern wrote: > > EP2 uses the 6.6a API. > > Weird. My [EMAIL PROTECTED] episode > two\bin\Mss32.dll > says 3.0.0.0 > > -- > Jeffrey "botman" Broome > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view > the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] DSP in source
Adam "amckern" McKern wrote: EP2 uses the 6.6a API. Weird. My [EMAIL PROTECTED] episode two\bin\Mss32.dll says 3.0.0.0 -- Jeffrey "botman" Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] DSP in source
The DSP in Source is not done with Miles even though Miles does have a bunch of DSP features (and may be able to do the same thing). It's a custom modular system we built for HL2. There isn't currently a way to modify it without changing code. Licensees have access to this code but it isn't in the mod SDK. The automatic DSP algorithm uses surface material properties and geometry along with a custom controller to configure delay lines and reverb parameters. As I recall, we use Miles sound system for multiplayer voice codecs and mp3 playback as well as steam voice chat. Jay -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Mann Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:01 PM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] DSP in source Thank you!! that was an invaluable piece of information! You mention it is used for a 'large part of its playback' do you know exactly what extent the source engine controls the miles API's? or what version of the API is used? I am also contacting miles directly regarding this info, I have managed to find out a LOT more information already just from the details you provided again thanks very much Ant On 17 Jan 2008, at 06:50, Adam amckern McKern wrote: > You would want to maybe email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > and ask them about it as the source engine uses the > miles sound system for a large part of its playback. > > Adam > > --- Anthony Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hi again >> >> Im writing a paper at the moment on sound design for >> games and i have >> a few questions some of you may be able to help me >> out with! >> I have been enjoying manipulating and creating >> soundscapes in the hl2 >> engine, and have been using hammer since CS 1.4. I'm >> especially >> interested in the DSP built into the source engine. >> Does anyone know any details of how the DSP system >> calculates the echo/ >> reverb for the room size/room geometry? is it rt-60 >> based? is it >> modular? is it possible to add DSP code without a >> total re-compile? >> How are these DSP elements written? >> Does anyone also have any good resources on the >> sound engine used >> within source? i have found some sparse >> documentation, and the SDK >> references but i would love to know the workings on >> a lower level than >> these provide. >> >> Hope someone can point me in the right direction, >> Thanks >> Ant >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view >> the list archives, please visit: >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> > > > > Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] DSP in source
EP2 uses the 6.6a API. Adam --- "Jeffrey \"botman\" Broome" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Anthony Mann wrote: > >... or what version of the API is used? > > Go into your Steam bin folder, right click on > mss32_s.dll, select > "Properties", and look at the Version tab. > > Mine says "File Version 7.0.4.0" > > Hmmm, I didn't know that Miles was owned by RAD Game > Tools. :) > > -- > Jeffrey "botman" Broome > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view > the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] DSP in source
Anthony Mann wrote: ... or what version of the API is used? Go into your Steam bin folder, right click on mss32_s.dll, select "Properties", and look at the Version tab. Mine says "File Version 7.0.4.0" Hmmm, I didn't know that Miles was owned by RAD Game Tools. :) -- Jeffrey "botman" Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] DSP in source
Thank you!! that was an invaluable piece of information! You mention it is used for a 'large part of its playback' do you know exactly what extent the source engine controls the miles API's? or what version of the API is used? I am also contacting miles directly regarding this info, I have managed to find out a LOT more information already just from the details you provided again thanks very much Ant On 17 Jan 2008, at 06:50, Adam amckern McKern wrote: You would want to maybe email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and ask them about it as the source engine uses the miles sound system for a large part of its playback. Adam --- Anthony Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi again Im writing a paper at the moment on sound design for games and i have a few questions some of you may be able to help me out with! I have been enjoying manipulating and creating soundscapes in the hl2 engine, and have been using hammer since CS 1.4. I'm especially interested in the DSP built into the source engine. Does anyone know any details of how the DSP system calculates the echo/ reverb for the room size/room geometry? is it rt-60 based? is it modular? is it possible to add DSP code without a total re-compile? How are these DSP elements written? Does anyone also have any good resources on the sound engine used within source? i have found some sparse documentation, and the SDK references but i would love to know the workings on a lower level than these provide. Hope someone can point me in the right direction, Thanks Ant ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] DSP in source
You would want to maybe email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and ask them about it as the source engine uses the miles sound system for a large part of its playback. Adam --- Anthony Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi again > > Im writing a paper at the moment on sound design for > games and i have > a few questions some of you may be able to help me > out with! > I have been enjoying manipulating and creating > soundscapes in the hl2 > engine, and have been using hammer since CS 1.4. I'm > especially > interested in the DSP built into the source engine. > Does anyone know any details of how the DSP system > calculates the echo/ > reverb for the room size/room geometry? is it rt-60 > based? is it > modular? is it possible to add DSP code without a > total re-compile? > How are these DSP elements written? > Does anyone also have any good resources on the > sound engine used > within source? i have found some sparse > documentation, and the SDK > references but i would love to know the workings on > a lower level than > these provide. > > Hope someone can point me in the right direction, > Thanks > Ant > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view > the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
[hlcoders] DSP in source
Hi again Im writing a paper at the moment on sound design for games and i have a few questions some of you may be able to help me out with! I have been enjoying manipulating and creating soundscapes in the hl2 engine, and have been using hammer since CS 1.4. I'm especially interested in the DSP built into the source engine. Does anyone know any details of how the DSP system calculates the echo/ reverb for the room size/room geometry? is it rt-60 based? is it modular? is it possible to add DSP code without a total re-compile? How are these DSP elements written? Does anyone also have any good resources on the sound engine used within source? i have found some sparse documentation, and the SDK references but i would love to know the workings on a lower level than these provide. Hope someone can point me in the right direction, Thanks Ant ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
