RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...[OT]
loved the jay and silent bob reference sandy :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SANDY LEBLANC Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 6:53 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I wasn't going to say anything after your first email but damn dude, something shit in your cereal or something that made you want to bitch at people tonight? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Roll back on client
FFS. All I said was that x64 is not supported by Valve. Meaning they don't have to rollback anything for an operating system that they do not officially support. I know they are looking into 64 bit extentions, but that does not mean they are officially offering technical support or offering ANY promises that their product will work on that OS. Post about the problem, that's fine. But to request a roll back for everybody just because a few people are having problems? No. That is the only point that I've made throughout this entire 'childish' back and forth here in front of all. This also isn't an issue about beta software. Steam isn't in beta, it's like in perpetual gone gold status since it's always being updated. There will never be a finalized version of it and I'm sure most everybody has accepted that by now. My beta comment earlier was only made to illustrate a point about how absurd it is to complain about beta software when something goes wrong just as it's absurd to complain or demand a rollback when something goes wrong with unsupported software. Does that clear a bit up? stalker333 wrote: Shawn Zipay: I dont understand how you don't realize you don't know wtf you are talking about. READ the mails that come over this list from valve, you'll soon find out what you are saying is dead wrong. Actually, I agree, a rollback on the updates is about a dumbass way to go about fixing this. Even for 32bit OSs, btw. Finally, and I hate to point out the obvious, but since you just don't seem to get it, here it goes The only way Valve is going to know if these updates screw up the 64bit servers (we're not talking about clients here), IS IF THEY POST ABOUT IT. So FFS, like I said, if you don't have something USEFUL to say, or in this case even understand the issue, don't comment on it. I could go on and explain myself, but really I've wasted enough time on this already. Just remember, BETA software doesn't get outta beta without TESTING and REPORTING of issues. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Roll back on client
. Roll back on client... This has nothing to do with this server-list unless someone claims that the server is affected.. which I have not seen yet. Saying that Steam.exe is the problem and therefore affect both servers and clients is just silly. That other clients is affected when someone lags like that, yes. But read: clients. Clients affecting other clients, not the servers. Supported is a word maybe some of you misunderstand in the meaning of Supported OS. It does not mean VALVe will not help out what so ever. It does not mean they will not try to fix it, it simply means that this OS does not have the right for support. You can probably get it.. but you cant expect it. I'm not sure if VALVe sells support with/for this game, but if they do it means they have to give you support on supported OS's. If the software does not work on a supported OS(and they don't help you fix it) I believe you can claim your money back. But in this case VALVe is constantly working on the client and the server, I doubt you will be able to get anything back. regards, Alexander ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
Clayton Macleod wrote: I think perhaps a refresher is warranted here, since you're forgetting one basic fact, which is even mentioned in the article listed. How many kernels have you built? Virtual Memory is always in use, even when the memory required by all running processes does not exceed the amount of RAM installed on the system. This statement bears no meaning on what I said. This rule is still for a dynamic environment. You should always have a pagefile, and it should be larger than your installed RAM, even if you have tons of RAM and your memory usage never nears your RAM limit. The people that wrote the memory manager in the OS are telling you this, and you're thinking they don't know what they're talking about? Actually, the article was written by technical documentation staff. There are plenty of videos from the Microsoft development labs regarding their memory architectures and dynamic caching routines. I was fortunate enough to study these in detail during the windows nt 4.0 days. Alot has changed, but many of the basics of the NT kernel are the same. Several MVP's have also published detailed documentation on this subject and none agree with the above statement. This was the principle of 9X paging, and is no longer required for a stable kernel (whereas it was required to keep 9X stable in high memory conditions). Besides, with HD space being well under $1/GB there's no legitimate reason to complain about the wasted HD space for a pagefile. Just set the minimum size No, you misunderstand the reason - what is the data transfer rate of your harddisk? And your ram? Now, next question, what is the speed of the bus that each of them is attatched to? Frequency develops latency and switching rate develops burst timings. Is the bus intelligent / managed? What about DMA? What's the DMA penalty? Blah Blah Blah. There is nothing wrong with the defaults - but the defaults are designed for systems that can sometimes be run by home users rarely loading more than internet explorer, who want blistering performance - in this case alot of the static data and unused strings are loaded into the pagefile - as they are rarely needed. When they are needed it is often the case that processing is in flow for other operations (such as building part of the gui) and the IDE latency rarely causes issue. As such the choice of data page here provided more free memory for new applications, whilst producing a minimal impact to system performance. Similarly a user running an arbritrarily large single application, such as say Lightwave, will find that paging can become an excess when close to the physical ram limits. This is no issue when handling that single application, but the paging nature is not idealistic - even loading a small app such as an explorer window can cause a massive re-page of the now unfocused app. In this case, because the memory balence between apps is poor, and the system takes no knowledge of each programs intentions - a bad decision is made. In this case (one that I have spent a good deal of time on) disabling the paging executive was the only way to get smooth non-paging performance out of the system. Finally, FYI - registry entries are rarely wasted by Micorosft - most configuration options will change something when the switch is flicked and they are put there for good reason! Why don't you try looking for some information on those keys and see what other Micorosft articles you find - if you read those the same way you read that last one, we'll have you screaming that they are contradictory by the end of the week. right. On 8/14/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: These rulings are intended for systems with dynamic environments and are done for coninual performance puproses, and built for dynamic run-time environments. This is not the scenario that a dedicated box will be running, which much more resembles a static application set. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
uh, yeah. Like I said, you need a refresher. It's quite apparent from your disabling the paging executive statement. Clearly you think you are disabling something called the paging executive which you think means you're causing the OS to hit the pagefile less. Sorry to tell you, but the setting you're talking about doesn't disable something called the paging executive. What that setting does is stop pages from the executive from ever going out of ram and into the pagefile. i.e. the kernel, drivers, etc. It doesn't affect any applications in any way, shape, or form. Any applications you have running will still get pages paged out just as much/little as before you disabled paging of the executive. side note: it's really not necessary to respond inline like that for something so short as this. It does nothing but make replying to such a short conversation take a lot longer than it needs to, since it takes forever to trim out all the stuff you've quoted. On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many kernels have you built? This statement bears no meaning on what I said. This rule is still for a dynamic environment. Actually, the article was written by technical documentation staff. There are plenty of videos from the Microsoft development labs regarding their memory architectures and dynamic caching routines. I was fortunate enough to study these in detail during the windows nt 4.0 days. Alot has changed, but many of the basics of the NT kernel are the same. Several MVP's have also published detailed documentation on this subject and none agree with the above statement. This was the principle of 9X paging, and is no longer required for a stable kernel (whereas it was required to keep 9X stable in high memory conditions). No, you misunderstand the reason - what is the data transfer rate of your harddisk? And your ram? Now, next question, what is the speed of the bus that each of them is attatched to? Frequency develops latency and switching rate develops burst timings. Is the bus intelligent / managed? What about DMA? What's the DMA penalty? Blah Blah Blah. There is nothing wrong with the defaults - but the defaults are designed for systems that can sometimes be run by home users rarely loading more than internet explorer, who want blistering performance - in this case alot of the static data and unused strings are loaded into the pagefile - as they are rarely needed. When they are needed it is often the case that processing is in flow for other operations (such as building part of the gui) and the IDE latency rarely causes issue. As such the choice of data page here provided more free memory for new applications, whilst producing a minimal impact to system performance. Similarly a user running an arbritrarily large single application, such as say Lightwave, will find that paging can become an excess when close to the physical ram limits. This is no issue when handling that single application, but the paging nature is not idealistic - even loading a small app such as an explorer window can cause a massive re-page of the now unfocused app. In this case, because the memory balence between apps is poor, and the system takes no knowledge of each programs intentions - a bad decision is made. In this case (one that I have spent a good deal of time on) disabling the paging executive was the only way to get smooth non-paging performance out of the system. Finally, FYI - registry entries are rarely wasted by Micorosft - most configuration options will change something when the switch is flicked and they are put there for good reason! Why don't you try looking for some information on those keys and see what other Micorosft articles you find - if you read those the same way you read that last one, we'll have you screaming that they are contradictory by the end of the week. right. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
Clayton - you have mostly understood the articles you have read. Whilst you understand the general principle of a paging system, clearly, you misunderstand that they are systematic, logical and non-optimal as with caching algorithms. Clayton Macleod wrote: MS themselves say that there is no way for us to know how much of any process is in RAM and how much is in the pagefile, Really? Well that individual needs to be fired. You couldn't even become an MCSE without some basic knowledge of where to find this stuff. HERES SOME TOOLS: TASKLIST, TASKMGR, PMON from Systeminternals.com. The first two SHIP WITH WINDOWS! There are some more tools (IIRC) in the support folders of the install CD too (although I cant remember how much sysint stuff is still being shipped with 2003). so, I don't know where you're getting this information from. Exactly, this should suggest another inference that should be made. How much do you really KNOW about this? Please don't waste time. Besides, *everything* is in virtual memory. Everything uses the kernels addressing system, this much is true. And there is no point in keeping pages in RAM that aren't being accessed when that RAM could be actively used for some other purpose. I'd agree with that statement, well I do, but don't forget this discussion is about excess FREE memory, not efficiency of use of ram vs. pagefile. If pages are active, they'll be in RAM, don't worry about it. Define an active page? How long before it should be moved out of physical RAM? 100ms? 2 years? If you could define this accurately, you could get rich. That's the whole point - these systems are not optimal yet - they are good, but not optimal. Currently MS build very very dynamic (read: adaptive loopback system) caching algorithms, in fact, there is no other OS currently available which is as sophisticated in this regard. I would recommend you never say the above statement again, as it's simply not held true by the systems that really exist, they do try though. My next questions to you are: (although this is really rhetorical as I know the answers) - If a page is inactive and therefore stored in the pagefile and becomes active what is the process by which the page is loaded? What is the decision for which pages to move out of ram? What data is used to make the decision? How long does it take? What is the impact on the process scheduler? Does this create a temporary starvation issue? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
Well it doesn't matter to me unless the servers are available, until that time I have no interest, so please keep your player issues to the player oriented forums, thank you. stalker333 wrote: Valve, Wasn't going to post about this, but every time I look at it, it pisses me off. S... [rant=on] DOD:S has been coming soon for almost a year, and now to add insult to injury, you put ANOTHER game in the coming soon category? Didn't you learn your lesson the first time? Not only will it likely be in coming soon for a while still, but don't you think you should release the game you *already* said was coming soon, first? If you took a vote of all the DOD players, I'm sure they would, most of them anyway, rather you release the damn beta at this point. Let us work the bugs out :P Now, one other thing. When I paid for HL2, I was told, on your website, I would get DOD:S. There was no, let me say that again, NO mention of it not being released yet until you clicked a link to take you to more info on DOD:S. Didn't see that until after I paid for HL2. May be different now, but thats how it was when I paid for my copy. Now, that's fine (not really, but for the purposes of this discussion), because I know it'll get here one day. However, for those of us who don't like CS or DM, would be nice to have our mods playable too. So hows about taking this lost coast group and putting them to work on DOD:S, get that out the door, then come back to LC. I don't remember being told I would get LC when I paid for HL2, DOD:S I did. Ok, that made me feel better. [/rant=off] -Smurf ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
Clayton Macleod wrote: uh, yeah. Like I said, you need a refresher. It's quite apparent from your disabling the paging executive statement. Clearly you think you are disabling something called the paging executive which you think means you're causing the OS to hit the pagefile less. Sorry to tell you, but the setting you're talking about doesn't disable something called the paging executive. What that setting does is stop pages from the executive from ever going out of ram and into the pagefile. i.e. the kernel, drivers, etc. It doesn't affect any applications in any way, shape, or form. Any applications you have running will still get pages paged out just as much/little as before you disabled paging of the executive. Go check explorer performance in this scenario and fuck off with your arrogance. If you think that dynamic systems can be optimised form the theoretical standpoint then you have little experience with doing so. The choice of settings was made using educated emperical changes in order to find the optimal, which is the only way this can be done in most scenarios. Sorry, but that response is totally defunct, even though most of it is correct. Besides, you made no effort to think what IS and ISN'T really getting paged in and out in the precense of a fat application like that. Most applications are no where near standalone, did you forget that? side note: it's really not necessary to respond inline like that for something so short as this. It does nothing but make replying to such a short conversation take a lot longer than it needs to, since it takes forever to trim out all the stuff you've quoted. Actually, that ensures I don't miss anything. Have a nice day. On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many kernels have you built? This statement bears no meaning on what I said. This rule is still for a dynamic environment. Actually, the article was written by technical documentation staff. There are plenty of videos from the Microsoft development labs regarding their memory architectures and dynamic caching routines. I was fortunate enough to study these in detail during the windows nt 4.0 days. Alot has changed, but many of the basics of the NT kernel are the same. Several MVP's have also published detailed documentation on this subject and none agree with the above statement. This was the principle of 9X paging, and is no longer required for a stable kernel (whereas it was required to keep 9X stable in high memory conditions). No, you misunderstand the reason - what is the data transfer rate of your harddisk? And your ram? Now, next question, what is the speed of the bus that each of them is attatched to? Frequency develops latency and switching rate develops burst timings. Is the bus intelligent / managed? What about DMA? What's the DMA penalty? Blah Blah Blah. There is nothing wrong with the defaults - but the defaults are designed for systems that can sometimes be run by home users rarely loading more than internet explorer, who want blistering performance - in this case alot of the static data and unused strings are loaded into the pagefile - as they are rarely needed. When they are needed it is often the case that processing is in flow for other operations (such as building part of the gui) and the IDE latency rarely causes issue. As such the choice of data page here provided more free memory for new applications, whilst producing a minimal impact to system performance. Similarly a user running an arbritrarily large single application, such as say Lightwave, will find that paging can become an excess when close to the physical ram limits. This is no issue when handling that single application, but the paging nature is not idealistic - even loading a small app such as an explorer window can cause a massive re-page of the now unfocused app. In this case, because the memory balence between apps is poor, and the system takes no knowledge of each programs intentions - a bad decision is made. In this case (one that I have spent a good deal of time on) disabling the paging executive was the only way to get smooth non-paging performance out of the system. Finally, FYI - registry entries are rarely wasted by Micorosft - most configuration options will change something when the switch is flicked and they are put there for good reason! Why don't you try looking for some information on those keys and see what other Micorosft articles you find - if you read those the same way you read that last one, we'll have you screaming that they are contradictory by the end of the week. right. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
hahahaha, I'm just having a conversation, Mr. Angry Eyes. On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Go check explorer performance in this scenario and fuck off with your arrogance. If you think that dynamic systems can be optimised form the theoretical standpoint then you have little experience with doing so. The choice of settings was made using educated emperical changes in order to find the optimal, which is the only way this can be done in most scenarios. Sorry, but that response is totally defunct, even though most of it is correct. Besides, you made no effort to think what IS and ISN'T really getting paged in and out in the precense of a fat application like that. Most applications are no where near standalone, did you forget that? Actually, that ensures I don't miss anything. Have a nice day. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
actually, no, task manager doesn't tell you exactly what you think it is telling you. If MS didn't purge their beta newsgroups after the end of their betas I could find a quote for you. (dammit) I'm not sure if a similar explanation is in any of their public docs or not. I'll take a look in the morning, day off with nothing planned. (well, actually, putting off getting under the car and getting all greasy, haha) On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clayton Macleod wrote: MS themselves say that there is no way for us to know how much of any process is in RAM and how much is in the pagefile, Really? Well that individual needs to be fired. You couldn't even become an MCSE without some basic knowledge of where to find this stuff. HERES SOME TOOLS: TASKLIST, TASKMGR, PMON from Systeminternals.com. The first two SHIP WITH WINDOWS! There are some more tools (IIRC) in the support folders of the install CD too (although I cant remember how much sysint stuff is still being shipped with 2003). -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
Clayton Macleod wrote: actually, no, task manager doesn't tell you exactly what you think it is telling you. If MS didn't purge their beta newsgroups after the end of their betas I could find a quote for you. (dammit) I'm not sure if a similar explanation is in any of their public docs or not. I'll take a look in the morning, day off with nothing planned. (well, actually, putting off getting under the car and getting all greasy, haha) The discussions on MSDN are not important here, as the process scheduler was made to report accurately for SP2(XP) and SP1(2k3). Amoung other things this is a requirement for DEP internals. Most of these docs can be found through a partner login. Sadly, the only public docs I've found so far are the exact same as you have just sent. The latter of which is an old bug we used to suffer frequently on our Citrix mainframes. (Ah, the reason he's been screwing with process and memory management!). -- http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/Windows/2000/server/reskit/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/Windows/2000/server/reskit/en-us/regentry/29931.asp http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/windowsserver2003/library/DepKit/3d3b3c16-c901-46de-8485-166a819af3ad.mspx http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/q184419/ N.B. Did ya miss MS's other two support sites? (just joking, I _love_ the way they make us trawl 5 different places for info ;-). -- None of these negate what I have said. In fact all they do is negate what you said about never changing from defaults, as here you will find MS suggesting that people look at these articles for their solutions (having been on the phone for hours to MS waiting for some id-10t (it's been a while) to point me to Q184419, despite being outdated and useless to the problems we ever encounter on the citrix platforms. The techs are never as good as the consultants. :-( Back to the point in hand, setting this option can reduce paging in certain instances where the data paged is stored in driver space - this is particularly more common in certian development scnearios. You CAN analyse these effects by careful observation of kernel and process running times, along with changes in memory deltas and other less important varaibles. Generally you will need a program in ring 0 to properly observe these things though, and never forget that everything you do on the system affects the system. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
re: memory reporting, even the working set value you get from the 'performance monitor' doesn't really necessarily tell you how much RAM the process is actually using just for itself, because this value includes any shared memory, not just private memory. I'm honestly sorry that I can't recall which MS guy said it, or exactly how he phrased it, but the gist of it was that you really cannot tell exactly how much RAM/pagefile is being used by processes since some of the data being reported to you includes memory that is shared between processes, and some of the values only relate to virtual memory space allocated. I just remember reading this during one of the windows betas in MS's beta newsgroups, possibly the initial release of XP. I imagine it was in the 'performance' group and came from one of the guys that deals with memory management. Yeah, yeah, anecdotal. But if you look through their various memory management/monitoring articles you get basically the same information. Most of the memory usage values reported are vritual memory stats, not real/physical memory, and even the value for the working set is 'dirtied' by shared memory. You can get a good enough idea from all the various reported values, yeah. But you can't get exact figures. Hell, they even changed task manager's title from mem usage to PF usage, and for good reason. Setting that option *does* reduce paging. I'm not disputing that. I only disputed that it is going to change the paging behaviour of applications. Clearly it will not, since applications and their memory don't fall under the umbrella of this setting, which only deals with the executive (NTExecutive I believe is the proper name) and the things which belong to it. i.e. kernel and drivers. On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The discussions on MSDN are not important here, as the process scheduler was made to report accurately for SP2(XP) and SP1(2k3). Amoung other things this is a requirement for DEP internals. Most of these docs can be found through a partner login. Sadly, the only public docs I've found so far are the exact same as you have just sent. The latter of which is an old bug we used to suffer frequently on our Citrix mainframes. (Ah, the reason he's been screwing with process and memory management!). N.B. Did ya miss MS's other two support sites? (just joking, I _love_ the way they make us trawl 5 different places for info ;-). -- None of these negate what I have said. In fact all they do is negate what you said about never changing from defaults, as here you will find MS suggesting that people look at these articles for their solutions (having been on the phone for hours to MS waiting for some id-10t (it's been a while) to point me to Q184419, despite being outdated and useless to the problems we ever encounter on the citrix platforms. The techs are never as good as the consultants. :-( Back to the point in hand, setting this option can reduce paging in certain instances where the data paged is stored in driver space - this is particularly more common in certian development scnearios. You CAN analyse these effects by careful observation of kernel and process running times, along with changes in memory deltas and other less important varaibles. Generally you will need a program in ring 0 to properly observe these things though, and never forget that everything you do on the system affects the system. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
well, I guess there would be some collateral damage done since there will be slightly less RAM available for the apps to use, since the executive isn't being paged anymore. So indirectly the amount of application paging would increase, though I don't think it would be enough of an impact to worry about. You may see some performance benefit from not paging the executive, but you may not either. All depends what you're doing. Probably the biggest thing you'd notice is if it is a machine you're actually using, and the UI would probably remain more responsive during high paging activity. On 8/15/05, Clayton Macleod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Setting that option *does* reduce paging. I'm not disputing that. I only disputed that it is going to change the paging behaviour of applications. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
Nobody shat in my cereal. What first message? That was in regards to another issue, 64bit support... I'm not upset at anyone in specific, nor am I trying to bitch. What bugs me, is that DOD:S isn't out yet, and has been in the coming soon catagory for Lets see, since Oct 5th of 04. Now, they have added yet another game/mod/episode whatever to coming soon. Yes, I mentioned it, and in short, don't like it. So I guess you can call that bitching. Suppose this isn't really the place for it, should have posted that on the steam forums or something, sorry. -Smurf Message: 4 From: SANDY LEBLANC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 04:53:29 + Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I wasn't going to say anything after your first email but damn dude, something shit in your cereal or something that made you want to bitch at people tonight? As for DoD:s, would you rather them give a release date not have it out at that time get flooded with bs messages like this ranting about them missing the date??? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Roll back on client
Shawn, Yep, if all you are talking about is the rollback, obviously. You acted like, however, that anyone with 64bit boxes should expect NO support, thats simply not the case. On top of that, the only way they are going to get any decent support is by making is as easy as possible for Valve to find/fix the problems that are bound to pop up. Which means, posting here with debug info or bug behavior. They have to post that here, or I suppose they could send it directly to Alfred and waste his time, if it's something someone on this list could have answered. As someone else pointed out, unsupported doesnt mean no support. Valve is pretty good about that, I must say. Anyway, sorry I came off a little hostile, but it just pisses me off to no end when people post here for help or to explain what they see happening on their servers, and 1-2 people always have to tell them how stupid they are for asking, they should go away, etc. -Smurf Message: 7 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 03:35:59 -0400 From: Shawn Zipay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Roll back on client Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com FFS. All I said was that x64 is not supported by Valve. Meaning they don't have to rollback anything for an operating system that they do not officially support. I know they are looking into 64 bit extentions, but that does not mean they are officially offering technical support or offering ANY promises that their product will work on that OS. Post about the problem, that's fine. But to request a roll back for everybody just because a few people are having problems? No. That is the only point that I've made throughout this entire 'childish' back and forth here in front of all. This also isn't an issue about beta software. Steam isn't in beta, it's like in perpetual gone gold status since it's always being updated. There will never be a finalized version of it and I'm sure most everybody has accepted that by now. My beta comment earlier was only made to illustrate a point about how absurd it is to complain about beta software when something goes wrong just as it's absurd to complain or demand a rollback when something goes wrong with unsupported software. Does that clear a bit up? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
Clayton Macleod wrote: re: memory reporting, even the working set value you get from the 'performance monitor' doesn't really necessarily tell you how much RAM the process is actually using just for itself, because this value includes any shared memory, not just private memory. I'm honestly sorry that I can't recall which MS guy said it, or exactly how he phrased it, but the gist of it was that you really cannot tell exactly how much RAM/pagefile is being used by processes since some of the data being reported to you includes memory that is shared between processes, and some of the values only relate to virtual memory space allocated. The most common cause of misrepresentation is the fact that Windows pre-pages most data to prevent massive delays in freeing physical ram when necessary. Was it Wang that was talking about that? Might have been, and IIRC it was discussed during beta 2. I just remember reading this during one of the windows betas in MS's beta newsgroups, possibly the initial release of XP. I imagine it was in the 'performance' group and came from one of the guys that deals with memory management. Yeah, yeah, anecdotal. But if you look through their various memory management/monitoring articles you get basically the same information. Most of the memory usage values reported are vritual memory stats, not real/physical memory, and even the value for the working set is 'dirtied' by shared memory. You can get a good enough idea from all the various reported values, yeah. But you can't get exact figures. Hell, they even changed task manager's title from mem usage to PF usage, and for good reason. Just because taskmgr doesn't report accurately does not mean the system cannot account for all memory. Wang would be most upset (and probably out of a job) if this was the case. Complete enumeration of these values is costly however, which is why it's unecessary for taskmgr. It's almost more important to have the values provided anyway. Setting that option *does* reduce paging. I'm not disputing that. phew. I only disputed that it is going to change the paging behaviour of applications. It does, because all changes to paging rates will change paging rates of other applications too. Call it what you will, starvation, pre-tension, or any of the other terms that people have tried to use to coin the factor of side-effects within dynamic caching algorithms, but it's princliple is the same. If there is something that needs to be regularly accessed but is not regularly scheduled it can cause failures (well, fail is too strong a word, but you know.) in the algorithms which can be reduced by changing their run-time settings. This is simply what happens in this scenario. Never underestimate how active the kernel and driver pages are! Clearly it will not, since applications and their memory don't fall under the umbrella of this setting, which only deals with the executive (NTExecutive I believe is the proper name) and the things which belong to it. i.e. kernel and drivers. Please don't try to tell me that the executive memory space is unimportant, I know that you already know this isn't true. On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The discussions on MSDN are not important here, as the process scheduler was made to report accurately for SP2(XP) and SP1(2k3). Amoung other things this is a requirement for DEP internals. Most of these docs can be found through a partner login. Sadly, the only public docs I've found so far are the exact same as you have just sent. The latter of which is an old bug we used to suffer frequently on our Citrix mainframes. (Ah, the reason he's been screwing with process and memory management!). N.B. Did ya miss MS's other two support sites? (just joking, I _love_ the way they make us trawl 5 different places for info ;-). -- None of these negate what I have said. In fact all they do is negate what you said about never changing from defaults, as here you will find MS suggesting that people look at these articles for their solutions (having been on the phone for hours to MS waiting for some id-10t (it's been a while) to point me to Q184419, despite being outdated and useless to the problems we ever encounter on the citrix platforms. The techs are never as good as the consultants. :-( Back to the point in hand, setting this option can reduce paging in certain instances where the data paged is stored in driver space - this is particularly more common in certian development scnearios. You CAN analyse these effects by careful observation of kernel and process running times, along with changes in memory deltas and other less important varaibles. Generally you will need a program in ring 0 to properly observe these things though, and never forget that everything you do on the system affects the system. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
Re: [hlds] Roll back on client
- Original Message - From: stalker333 [EMAIL PROTECTED] /sigh Why does this list have such a troll infestation Find something useful to add, or DONT ADD ANYTHING to the conversation. Good Day... -Smurf Kinda ironic,don't ya think..its like rain... On the 64bit note while it isn't offically supported I'm sure in more than one way they are working on it in the background.So input on 64bit from time to time doesn't hurt anyone.It really helps me hearing the problems people are having with 64bit os's/machine as in I was thinking of swapping over to one myself. BeNt http://www.gorillazsouth.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
- Original Message - From: stalker333 [EMAIL PROTECTED] What bugs me, is that DOD:S isn't out yet, and has been in the coming soon catagory for Lets see, since Oct 5th of 04. Now, they have added yet another game/mod/episode whatever to coming soon. Ever think there is alot more than one development team in one house and under one roof? BeNt http://www.gorillazsouth.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
Been too long I guess, I don't recall. For some reason my memory seems to do better with the meat than with the potatoes. Yeah, I addressed the collateral stuff in my next post there. I'm not saying the executive memory space is unimportant. I only said that applications' memory space isn't the executive's memory space. Because it's not, they're definitely seperate from each other, and handled seperately/differently. I simply stated that this setting doesn't affect applications and the paging of their memory. Perhaps it would've been more accurate to say that this setting doesn't *directly* affect applications and their paging activity. Since the only way it affects it is by the fact that if you disable the executive's paging you are left with a smaller amount of RAM that could be available to applications. And indirectly this could/would change the amount of paging the applications experience. But windows comes with a default setting to allow the executive's memory space to be paged out for a reason, because portions of it can be inactive enough to warrant paging it out. No reason for my scanner driver to be in RAM when the scanner hasn't been used or even looked at since bootup, for instance. And allowing the executive to be paged would likely mean that driver would indeed be paged out whenever the OS could use that RAM elsewhere. Even if it's only a few dozen k. On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The most common cause of misrepresentation is the fact that Windows pre-pages most data to prevent massive delays in freeing physical ram when necessary. Was it Wang that was talking about that? Might have been, and IIRC it was discussed during beta 2. Just because taskmgr doesn't report accurately does not mean the system cannot account for all memory. Wang would be most upset (and probably out of a job) if this was the case. Complete enumeration of these values is costly however, which is why it's unecessary for taskmgr. It's almost more important to have the values provided anyway. phew. It does, because all changes to paging rates will change paging rates of other applications too. Call it what you will, starvation, pre-tension, or any of the other terms that people have tried to use to coin the factor of side-effects within dynamic caching algorithms, but it's princliple is the same. If there is something that needs to be regularly accessed but is not regularly scheduled it can cause failures (well, fail is too strong a word, but you know.) in the algorithms which can be reduced by changing their run-time settings. This is simply what happens in this scenario. Never underestimate how active the kernel and driver pages are! Please don't try to tell me that the executive memory space is unimportant, I know that you already know this isn't true. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
Minor interjection.. Did I miss understand the whole point of mixing Virtual and Physical ram? was it not the point of the OS telling the App where and how to get memory, and if I am not mistaken, Apps don't even directly touch ram, that little interface called HAL handles it, so as far as the App is concerned it's all physical ram. So back to the point, static setup for a static need, it's not like were going to have a melt down if you can't lunch solitaire on the server that's meant for serving... oh yes the MS KB, how I miss the internal one, if only I was allowed a burner while I was employed under the PSS outsource :'( From: Clayton Macleod [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 05:25:53 -0700 Been too long I guess, I don't recall. For some reason my memory seems to do better with the meat than with the potatoes. Yeah, I addressed the collateral stuff in my next post there. I'm not saying the executive memory space is unimportant. I only said that applications' memory space isn't the executive's memory space. Because it's not, they're definitely seperate from each other, and handled seperately/differently. I simply stated that this setting doesn't affect applications and the paging of their memory. Perhaps it would've been more accurate to say that this setting doesn't *directly* affect applications and their paging activity. Since the only way it affects it is by the fact that if you disable the executive's paging you are left with a smaller amount of RAM that could be available to applications. And indirectly this could/would change the amount of paging the applications experience. But windows comes with a default setting to allow the executive's memory space to be paged out for a reason, because portions of it can be inactive enough to warrant paging it out. No reason for my scanner driver to be in RAM when the scanner hasn't been used or even looked at since bootup, for instance. And allowing the executive to be paged would likely mean that driver would indeed be paged out whenever the OS could use that RAM elsewhere. Even if it's only a few dozen k. On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The most common cause of misrepresentation is the fact that Windows pre-pages most data to prevent massive delays in freeing physical ram when necessary. Was it Wang that was talking about that? Might have been, and IIRC it was discussed during beta 2. Just because taskmgr doesn't report accurately does not mean the system cannot account for all memory. Wang would be most upset (and probably out of a job) if this was the case. Complete enumeration of these values is costly however, which is why it's unecessary for taskmgr. It's almost more important to have the values provided anyway. phew. It does, because all changes to paging rates will change paging rates of other applications too. Call it what you will, starvation, pre-tension, or any of the other terms that people have tried to use to coin the factor of side-effects within dynamic caching algorithms, but it's princliple is the same. If there is something that needs to be regularly accessed but is not regularly scheduled it can cause failures (well, fail is too strong a word, but you know.) in the algorithms which can be reduced by changing their run-time settings. This is simply what happens in this scenario. Never underestimate how active the kernel and driver pages are! Please don't try to tell me that the executive memory space is unimportant, I know that you already know this isn't true. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
Clayton Macleod wrote: Been too long I guess, I don't recall. For some reason my memory seems to do better with the meat than with the potatoes. Yeah know that problem, last time I touched sendmail was nearly 5 years ago now, and I looked at the config the other day in shock. :) Yeah, I addressed the collateral stuff in my next post there. I'm not saying the executive memory space is unimportant. I only said that applications' memory space isn't the executive's memory space. Because it's not, they're definitely seperate from each other, and handled seperately/differently. I simply stated that this setting doesn't affect applications and the paging of their memory. Perhaps it would've been more accurate to say that this setting doesn't *directly* affect applications and their paging activity. Since the only way it affects it is by the fact that if you disable the executive's paging you are left with a smaller amount of RAM that could be available to applications. And indirectly this could/would change the amount of paging the applications experience. But windows comes with a default setting to allow the executive's memory space to be paged out for a reason, because portions of it can be inactive enough to warrant paging it out. No reason for my scanner driver to be in RAM when the scanner hasn't been used or even looked at since bootup, for instance. This is actually explicitly controllable by the driver, as you will see in other documentation. As you probably know from the discussions regarding reporting of memory usage, windows pages most of most applications to save time when clearing physical ram, if the applications are using most of the ram, this means that lesser scheduled apps will not recieve any priority in the time based components of paging controls - a problem common to most paging systems. This is also the reason that they recommend that your pagefile size is 1 to 1.5x your physical ram or greater - it prevents excess page dumps from ram to disk in order to clear physical space. This action is important, as I have stated before, for a dynamic environment where the running applications and average memory deltas are high. For systems where the application set will fit in physical ram paging is unnecessary and does use excess time on the processor and the bus. The important notice is page faults and the page fault deltas. It's not uncommon in the near extremes of these scenarios that excess page faults can be reduced by setting non defaults. The specific cases I have dealt with (typically high end machines and very large single process applications, or many many user environments) have benefited from this setting, by side effect or not. Other things, such as IOPageLockLimit can also be important, but are often mis-set by users trying to optimise in these areas. And allowing the executive to be paged would likely mean that driver would indeed be paged out whenever the OS could use that RAM elsewhere. Even if it's only a few dozen k. In general server machines should not suffer the problems associated with having excess hardware. Ideally, un-used hardware should be disabled. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
well, the point there wasn't that servers are going to have superfluous hardware. The point was that pretty much nothing is going to cause every single page used by the executive to be active enough to keep it all in ram at all times. Given that this is likely to be way under a hundred megs, way way under on a server, and that you're likely to have a gig or two of ram, keeping it all in ram probably isn't going to hurt much. And while I see your point about a single-application server only doing so much, I kinda doubt that having the executive eligible for paging is going to affect it that much either. Perhaps the biggest chance for any performance differences to arise here would be at map change, and that's actually a point when performance doesn't really matter much at all. Gameplay isn't going to be affected. Another freakin' all-nighter, whodathunkit, haha...6:35am here, gonna get some shuteye before I decide whether or not to put off working on the car after lunch. Which I guess will technically be breakfast, heh. Have a good one. On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In general server machines should not suffer the problems associated with having excess hardware. Ideally, un-used hardware should be disabled. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
yeah, basically apps just deal with virtual memory, and the OS is what deals between RAM and the pagefile. Each app gets its own 2gigs of address space to allocate memory for itself from, and the OS is what determines the actual RAM/pagefile usage. On 8/15/05, Dustin Tuft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Minor interjection.. Did I miss understand the whole point of mixing Virtual and Physical ram? was it not the point of the OS telling the App where and how to get memory, and if I am not mistaken, Apps don't even directly touch ram, that little interface called HAL handles it, so as far as the App is concerned it's all physical ram. So back to the point, static setup for a static need, it's not like were going to have a melt down if you can't lunch solitaire on the server that's meant for serving... oh yes the MS KB, how I miss the internal one, if only I was allowed a burner while I was employed under the PSS outsource :'( -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
Games aren't made in days. DoD:S is much more than a port. I believe I read somewhere that they originally thought it would be mostly a port (which prompted the Coming Soon listing in Steam), but they decided to overhaul a bunch of stuff to make it a much better game. Have you seen the screenshots? But what do I know? I was only on the beta test team. Drew On 8/14/05, stalker333 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Valve, Wasn't going to post about this, but every time I look at it, it pisses me off. S... [rant=on] DOD:S has been coming soon for almost a year, and now to add insult to injury, you put ANOTHER game in the coming soon category? Didn't you learn your lesson the first time? Not only will it likely be in coming soon for a while still, but don't you think you should release the game you *already* said was coming soon, first? If you took a vote of all the DOD players, I'm sure they would, most of them anyway, rather you release the damn beta at this point. Let us work the bugs out :P Now, one other thing. When I paid for HL2, I was told, on your website, I would get DOD:S. There was no, let me say that again, NO mention of it not being released yet until you clicked a link to take you to more info on DOD:S. Didn't see that until after I paid for HL2. May be different now, but thats how it was when I paid for my copy. Now, that's fine (not really, but for the purposes of this discussion), because I know it'll get here one day. However, for those of us who don't like CS or DM, would be nice to have our mods playable too. So hows about taking this lost coast group and putting them to work on DOD:S, get that out the door, then come back to LC. I don't remember being told I would get LC when I paid for HL2, DOD:S I did. Ok, that made me feel better. [/rant=off] -Smurf ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Fwd: [HLSW-announce] HLSW 1.0.0.44 released
Small HLSW update to version 1.0.0.44 Changelog - Included BeetlesMod support - Included Battlefield 2 support - Included support for extended GameSpy protocol = BF2 Player display works on server with many players - Some small changes Download - http://www.hlsw.org Best regards Olaf Reusch (HLSW Developer) HLSW - Power is nothing without control Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.hlsw.org ___ HLSW-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://webmail.hlsw.org/mailman/listinfo/hlsw-announce HLSW 1.0.0.44 released :) [HLSW-announce] http://webmail.hlsw.org/mailman/listinfo/hlsw-announce -- Sincerely, Your Neighborhood List Keeper ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] The only time I hear Activision named is when someone refers to the original DoD not the port over. IMO, I think VALVe is soley doing the port over. From: Roc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 01:18:01 -0400 Valve may have no control over DoD:S. I thought it was Activision that was holding the game due to whatever reasons. (forgive me if I am wrong) ;) Regards ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
Your HLDS and SRCDS work don't they? STFU and go join a chatroom somewhere or shack up as roommates. Either way STFU. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clayton Macleod Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:42 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking yeah, basically apps just deal with virtual memory, and the OS is what deals between RAM and the pagefile. Each app gets its own 2gigs of address space to allocate memory for itself from, and the OS is what determines the actual RAM/pagefile usage. On 8/15/05, Dustin Tuft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Minor interjection.. Did I miss understand the whole point of mixing Virtual and Physical ram? was it not the point of the OS telling the App where and how to get memory, and if I am not mistaken, Apps don't even directly touch ram, that little interface called HAL handles it, so as far as the App is concerned it's all physical ram. So back to the point, static setup for a static need, it's not like were going to have a melt down if you can't lunch solitaire on the server that's meant for serving... oh yes the MS KB, how I miss the internal one, if only I was allowed a burner while I was employed under the PSS outsource :'( -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Fwd: [HLSW-announce] HLSW 1.0.0.44 released
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yay, I was looking for an update just the other night. On 8/16/05, List Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Small HLSW update to version 1.0.0.44 http://1.0.0.44 Changelog - Included BeetlesMod support - Included Battlefield 2 support - Included support for extended GameSpy protocol = BF2 Player display works on server with many players - Some small changes Download - http://www.hlsw.org Best regards Olaf Reusch (HLSW Developer) HLSW - Power is nothing without control Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.hlsw.org ___ HLSW-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://webmail.hlsw.org/mailman/listinfo/hlsw-announce HLSW 1.0.0.44 http://1.0.0.44 released :) [HLSW-announce] http://webmail.hlsw.org/mailman/listinfo/hlsw-announce -- Sincerely, Your Neighborhood List Keeper ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
On 8/15/05, Dustin Tuft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Minor interjection.. Did I miss understand the whole point of mixing Virtual and Physical ram? was it not the point of the OS telling the App where and how to get memory, and if I am not mistaken, Apps don't even directly touch ram, that little interface called HAL handles it, so as far as the App is concerned it's all physical ram. Yes, but changes in the environment affect the system in a particular way, you understand. The app controls merely the volume of memory it allocates (and most of the time de-allocs ;-p). Nothing contrary to this has been discussed by either of us. So back to the point, static setup for a static need, it's not like were going to have a melt down if you can't lunch solitaire on the server that's meant for serving... Well that's exactly it, also the memory manager is very creative in these situations. Don't you just love the yellow boxes. oh yes the MS KB, how I miss the internal one, if only I was allowed a burner while I was employed under the PSS outsource :'( I lost access to a gold partner and mvp login, not everything though. n'er mind. From: Clayton Macleod [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 05:25:53 -0700 Been too long I guess, I don't recall. For some reason my memory seems to do better with the meat than with the potatoes. Yeah, I addressed the collateral stuff in my next post there. I'm not saying the executive memory space is unimportant. I only said that applications' memory space isn't the executive's memory space. Because it's not, they're definitely seperate from each other, and handled seperately/differently. I simply stated that this setting doesn't affect applications and the paging of their memory. Perhaps it would've been more accurate to say that this setting doesn't *directly* affect applications and their paging activity. Since the only way it affects it is by the fact that if you disable the executive's paging you are left with a smaller amount of RAM that could be available to applications. And indirectly this could/would change the amount of paging the applications experience. But windows comes with a default setting to allow the executive's memory space to be paged out for a reason, because portions of it can be inactive enough to warrant paging it out. No reason for my scanner driver to be in RAM when the scanner hasn't been used or even looked at since bootup, for instance. And allowing the executive to be paged would likely mean that driver would indeed be paged out whenever the OS could use that RAM elsewhere. Even if it's only a few dozen k. On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The most common cause of misrepresentation is the fact that Windows pre-pages most data to prevent massive delays in freeing physical ram when necessary. Was it Wang that was talking about that? Might have been, and IIRC it was discussed during beta 2. Just because taskmgr doesn't report accurately does not mean the system cannot account for all memory. Wang would be most upset (and probably out of a job) if this was the case. Complete enumeration of these values is costly however, which is why it's unecessary for taskmgr. It's almost more important to have the values provided anyway. phew. It does, because all changes to paging rates will change paging rates of other applications too. Call it what you will, starvation, pre-tension, or any of the other terms that people have tried to use to coin the factor of side-effects within dynamic caching algorithms, but it's princliple is the same. If there is something that needs to be regularly accessed but is not regularly scheduled it can cause failures (well, fail is too strong a word, but you know.) in the algorithms which can be reduced by changing their run-time settings. This is simply what happens in this scenario. Never underestimate how active the kernel and driver pages are! Please don't try to tell me that the executive memory space is unimportant, I know that you already know this isn't true. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
On 8/15/05, Clayton Macleod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well, the point there wasn't that servers are going to have superfluous hardware. The point was that pretty much nothing is going to cause every single page used by the executive to be active enough to keep it all in ram at all times. Ah so you agree with me there. What can we do to keep page fault latency down then? Given that this is likely to be way under a hundred megs, way way under on a server, and that you're likely to have a gig or two of ram, keeping it all in ram probably isn't going to hurt much. Indeed. :) And while I see your point about a single-application server only doing so much, I kinda doubt that having the executive eligible for paging is going to affect it that much either. In latency terms, we're talking about real-time importance. All latency added to the system for processing, particularly in IDE, are going to be significant to the next frame. Smoothing this out reduces jitter, or more definably reduces the standard deviation of server performance variables. Perhaps the biggest chance for any performance differences to arise here would be at map change, and that's actually a point when performance doesn't really matter much at all. Gameplay isn't going to be affected. Another freakin' all-nighter, whodathunkit, haha...6:35am here, gonna get some shuteye before I decide whether or not to put off working on the car after lunch. Which I guess will technically be breakfast, heh. Have a good one. Just out of interest with regard to this stuff, anyone started up an HLDS or SRCDS instance on QNX? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
Yes, it did, but that wasn't really my point. Point is, having 2-3 games almost done doesn't help anyone. Look I understand everyone gets defensive of Valve, and usually for good reason (they are being blamed for something stupid) but this, frankly, is only Valve. Now, call me crazy, but I just like getting what I paid for. Again, I know people hate to hear that (oddly enough) and I don't mind waiting, but g'damn! How much artwork are they doing?!? Again, I don't mean to piss anyone off, but even Valve knows this is getting old, some of them anyway. -Smurf Message: 6 From: [GS]BeNt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:27:16 -0500 Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com - Original Message - From: stalker333 [EMAIL PROTECTED] What bugs me, is that DOD:S isn't out yet, and has been in the coming soon catagory for Lets see, since Oct 5th of 04. Now, they have added yet another game/mod/episode whatever to coming soon. Ever think there is alot more than one development team in one house and under one roof? BeNt http://www.gorillazsouth.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] VAC2 et Cheating Death ?
We are communicating to the CD team on this issue. - Alfred Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Oum Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 6:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] VAC2 et Cheating Death ? yes that is exactly why we need official word from Valve Alfred ? - Original Message - From: James Grimstead [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 11:51 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] VAC2 et Cheating Death ? I read on some forum, probly a cheating one or some news post, that C-D is based on the same hooking method as the original OGC. If VAC2 has generic methods of detecting ogc style cheats, then CD would most likely get you banned. This was a while ago though, it may have changed since then. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Oum Sent: 14 August 2005 17:35 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] VAC2 et Cheating Death ? from http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=threadid=28289 2 9.1) Will it be possible to run VAC 2 and Cheating-Death together on a Server? To be determined. Ok we know now VAC2 and CD can run together on a server but is it safe to join a vac secure server with CD ? I think many players that are used to use CD will get vac banned because some server admins may think it is no problem... We need official word form Valve about that. Oum ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 12/08/2005 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] VAC2 et Cheating Death ?
ok thank you, at least we know you care about it ^^ - Original Message - From: Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 7:08 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] VAC2 et Cheating Death ? We are communicating to the CD team on this issue. - Alfred Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Oum Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 6:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] VAC2 et Cheating Death ? yes that is exactly why we need official word from Valve Alfred ? - Original Message - From: James Grimstead [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 11:51 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] VAC2 et Cheating Death ? I read on some forum, probly a cheating one or some news post, that C-D is based on the same hooking method as the original OGC. If VAC2 has generic methods of detecting ogc style cheats, then CD would most likely get you banned. This was a while ago though, it may have changed since then. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Oum Sent: 14 August 2005 17:35 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] VAC2 et Cheating Death ? from http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=threadid=28289 2 9.1) Will it be possible to run VAC 2 and Cheating-Death together on a Server? To be determined. Ok we know now VAC2 and CD can run together on a server but is it safe to join a vac secure server with CD ? I think many players that are used to use CD will get vac banned because some server admins may think it is no problem... We need official word form Valve about that. Oum ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 12/08/2005 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
I agree. This is getting way old. Is anyone impressed with the screenshots? The game isn't out yet and the released pics look substandard. I'm wondering if it will look as good as HL2. I have had a 24/7 DoD server since the beta days. I think I may jump ship to newer games like Battlefield 2. Let the flames roar up, I care not. Megatron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of stalker333 Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 8:40 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Yes, it did, but that wasn't really my point. Point is, having 2-3 games almost done doesn't help anyone. Look I understand everyone gets defensive of Valve, and usually for good reason (they are being blamed for something stupid) but this, frankly, is only Valve. Now, call me crazy, but I just like getting what I paid for. Again, I know people hate to hear that (oddly enough) and I don't mind waiting, but g'damn! How much artwork are they doing?!? Again, I don't mean to piss anyone off, but even Valve knows this is getting old, some of them anyway. -Smurf Message: 6 From: [GS]BeNt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:27:16 -0500 Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com - Original Message - From: stalker333 [EMAIL PROTECTED] What bugs me, is that DOD:S isn't out yet, and has been in the coming soon catagory for Lets see, since Oct 5th of 04. Now, they have added yet another game/mod/episode whatever to coming soon. Ever think there is alot more than one development team in one house and under one roof? BeNt http://www.gorillazsouth.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
Jump (at least for now), it's much more fun. (no offense meant to valve just my honest opinion) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Megatron Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:06 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... I agree. This is getting way old. Is anyone impressed with the screenshots? The game isn't out yet and the released pics look substandard. I'm wondering if it will look as good as HL2. I have had a 24/7 DoD server since the beta days. I think I may jump ship to newer games like Battlefield 2. Let the flames roar up, I care not. Megatron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of stalker333 Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 8:40 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Yes, it did, but that wasn't really my point. Point is, having 2-3 games almost done doesn't help anyone. Look I understand everyone gets defensive of Valve, and usually for good reason (they are being blamed for something stupid) but this, frankly, is only Valve. Now, call me crazy, but I just like getting what I paid for. Again, I know people hate to hear that (oddly enough) and I don't mind waiting, but g'damn! How much artwork are they doing?!? Again, I don't mean to piss anyone off, but even Valve knows this is getting old, some of them anyway. -Smurf Message: 6 From: [GS]BeNt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:27:16 -0500 Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com - Original Message - From: stalker333 [EMAIL PROTECTED] What bugs me, is that DOD:S isn't out yet, and has been in the coming soon catagory for Lets see, since Oct 5th of 04. Now, they have added yet another game/mod/episode whatever to coming soon. Ever think there is alot more than one development team in one house and under one roof? BeNt http://www.gorillazsouth.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
From a server point of view, you'll be MUCH more frustrated with BF2. Just a word of warning. I would suggest joining their mailing list and lurk for just a day or two to get a feel for the discontent there. - Original Message - From: Napier, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 3:19 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Jump (at least for now), it's much more fun. (no offense meant to valve just my honest opinion) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Megatron Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:06 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... I agree. This is getting way old. Is anyone impressed with the screenshots? The game isn't out yet and the released pics look substandard. I'm wondering if it will look as good as HL2. I have had a 24/7 DoD server since the beta days. I think I may jump ship to newer games like Battlefield 2. Let the flames roar up, I care not. Megatron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of stalker333 Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 8:40 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Yes, it did, but that wasn't really my point. Point is, having 2-3 games almost done doesn't help anyone. Look I understand everyone gets defensive of Valve, and usually for good reason (they are being blamed for something stupid) but this, frankly, is only Valve. Now, call me crazy, but I just like getting what I paid for. Again, I know people hate to hear that (oddly enough) and I don't mind waiting, but g'damn! How much artwork are they doing?!? Again, I don't mean to piss anyone off, but even Valve knows this is getting old, some of them anyway. -Smurf Message: 6 From: [GS]BeNt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:27:16 -0500 Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com - Original Message - From: stalker333 [EMAIL PROTECTED] What bugs me, is that DOD:S isn't out yet, and has been in the coming soon catagory for Lets see, since Oct 5th of 04. Now, they have added yet another game/mod/episode whatever to coming soon. Ever think there is alot more than one development team in one house and under one roof? BeNt http://www.gorillazsouth.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
Hehe, you guys are frustrated that your game is listed in Coming Soon? You don't know how lucky you are! The TFC community has been left in the dark for so long... ! TFC:S? TF:2? Who knows. Be happy at least the mod is coming soon... ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
yes I definatly meant from a game point of view, not a server admin point of view, though the tools are much better this time around, but certainly hlds scrs are easier to run. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of DLinkOZ Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:24 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... From a server point of view, you'll be MUCH more frustrated with BF2. Just a word of warning. I would suggest joining their mailing list and lurk for just a day or two to get a feel for the discontent there. - Original Message - From: Napier, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 3:19 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Jump (at least for now), it's much more fun. (no offense meant to valve just my honest opinion) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Megatron Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:06 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... I agree. This is getting way old. Is anyone impressed with the screenshots? The game isn't out yet and the released pics look substandard. I'm wondering if it will look as good as HL2. I have had a 24/7 DoD server since the beta days. I think I may jump ship to newer games like Battlefield 2. Let the flames roar up, I care not. Megatron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of stalker333 Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 8:40 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Yes, it did, but that wasn't really my point. Point is, having 2-3 games almost done doesn't help anyone. Look I understand everyone gets defensive of Valve, and usually for good reason (they are being blamed for something stupid) but this, frankly, is only Valve. Now, call me crazy, but I just like getting what I paid for. Again, I know people hate to hear that (oddly enough) and I don't mind waiting, but g'damn! How much artwork are they doing?!? Again, I don't mean to piss anyone off, but even Valve knows this is getting old, some of them anyway. -Smurf Message: 6 From: [GS]BeNt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:27:16 -0500 Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com - Original Message - From: stalker333 [EMAIL PROTECTED] What bugs me, is that DOD:S isn't out yet, and has been in the coming soon catagory for Lets see, since Oct 5th of 04. Now, they have added yet another game/mod/episode whatever to coming soon. Ever think there is alot more than one development team in one house and under one roof? BeNt http://www.gorillazsouth.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
I suppose I'm somewhat obligated to complain about not having the OP4 source, etc :-) Quake 4. It's The Next Big Thing, and there is a good chance that you will see Ooks Steaming Pile of Crap becoming Ooks Quaking Pile of Crap v.4 by the end of the year. DeathMatch was the first love of my life, and I often mourn the demise of DM and the spread of Counter-Shite. Maybe Q4 can breath some life back into the DM arena? UT2K3 was good - but not good enough. They still have not learned something that Valve, and now ID, know - you want a killer DM game, you have to have a killer SP game to get people to buy it in the first place. I love Q3 DM, but there was no Q3 SP, and although the Q3 engine is now ancient history, it had a lot going for it. But the numbers just weren't there, and the netcode very much favored low latency connections. And now I'm starting to ramble... - Original Message - From: Napier, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Jump (at least for now), it's much more fun. (no offense meant to valve just my honest opinion) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Megatron Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:06 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... I agree. This is getting way old. Is anyone impressed with the screenshots? The game isn't out yet and the released pics look substandard. I'm wondering if it will look as good as HL2. I have had a 24/7 DoD server since the beta days. I think I may jump ship to newer games like Battlefield 2. Let the flames roar up, I care not. Megatron -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of stalker333 Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 8:40 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Yes, it did, but that wasn't really my point. Point is, having 2-3 games almost done doesn't help anyone. Look I understand everyone gets defensive of Valve, and usually for good reason (they are being blamed for something stupid) but this, frankly, is only Valve. Now, call me crazy, but I just like getting what I paid for. Again, I know people hate to hear that (oddly enough) and I don't mind waiting, but g'damn! How much artwork are they doing?!? Again, I don't mean to piss anyone off, but even Valve knows this is getting old, some of them anyway. -Smurf Message: 6 From: [GS]BeNt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:27:16 -0500 Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com - Original Message - From: stalker333 [EMAIL PROTECTED] What bugs me, is that DOD:S isn't out yet, and has been in the coming soon catagory for Lets see, since Oct 5th of 04. Now, they have added yet another game/mod/episode whatever to coming soon. Ever think there is alot more than one development team in one house and under one roof? BeNt http://www.gorillazsouth.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Re: hlds digest, Vol 1 #3928 - 11 msgs
Speaking of DOD:S and another game being in the comming soon section. What about HLDM1:Source that was announced a few weeks back? Any more news on that? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 1:04 PM Subject: hlds digest, Vol 1 #3928 - 11 msgs Send hlds mailing list submissions to hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of hlds digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: windows 2003 memory tweaking (Clayton Macleod) 2. Re: windows 2003 memory tweaking (Clayton Macleod) 3. Fwd: [HLSW-announce] HLSW 1.0.0.44 released (List Keeper) 4. Re: Coming Soon BS... (Drew Hostetler) 5. Re: Coming Soon BS... (SANDY LEBLANC) 6. RE: windows 2003 memory tweaking ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 7. Re: Fwd: [HLSW-announce] HLSW 1.0.0.44 released (Whisper) 8. Re: windows 2003 memory tweaking (James Tucker) 9. Re: windows 2003 memory tweaking (James Tucker) 10. Re: Coming Soon BS... (stalker333) 11. RE: VAC2 et Cheating Death ? (Alfred Reynolds) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 06:36:24 -0700 From: Clayton Macleod [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com well, the point there wasn't that servers are going to have superfluous hardware. The point was that pretty much nothing is going to cause every single page used by the executive to be active enough to keep it all in ram at all times. Given that this is likely to be way under a hundred megs, way way under on a server, and that you're likely to have a gig or two of ram, keeping it all in ram probably isn't going to hurt much. And while I see your point about a single-application server only doing so much, I kinda doubt that having the executive eligible for paging is going to affect it that much either. Perhaps the biggest chance for any performance differences to arise here would be at map change, and that's actually a point when performance doesn't really matter much at all. Gameplay isn't going to be affected. Another freakin' all-nighter, whodathunkit, haha...6:35am here, gonna get some shuteye before I decide whether or not to put off working on the car after lunch. Which I guess will technically be breakfast, heh. Have a good one. On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In general server machines should not suffer the problems associated with having excess hardware. Ideally, un-used hardware should be disabled. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 06:41:35 -0700 From: Clayton Macleod [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com yeah, basically apps just deal with virtual memory, and the OS is what deals between RAM and the pagefile. Each app gets its own 2gigs of address space to allocate memory for itself from, and the OS is what determines the actual RAM/pagefile usage. On 8/15/05, Dustin Tuft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Minor interjection.. Did I miss understand the whole point of mixing Virtual and Physical ram? was it not the point of the OS telling the App where and how to get memory, and if I am not mistaken, Apps don't even directly touch ram, that little interface called HAL handles it, so as far as the App is concerned it's all physical ram. So back to the point, static setup for a static need, it's not like were going to have a melt down if you can't lunch solitaire on the server that's meant for serving... oh yes the MS KB, how I miss the internal one, if only I was allowed a burner while I was employed under the PSS outsource :'( -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:03:17 -0500 From: List Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com, hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Fwd: [HLSW-announce] HLSW 1.0.0.44 released Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Small HLSW update to version 1.0.0.44 Changelog - Included BeetlesMod support - Included Battlefield 2 support - Included support for extended GameSpy protocol = BF2 Player display works on server with many players - Some small changes Download - http://www.hlsw.org Best regards Olaf Reusch (HLSW Developer) HLSW - Power is nothing without control Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [hlds] Re: hlds digest, Vol 1 #3928 - 11 msgs
Tum wrote: Speaking of DOD:S and another game being in the comming soon section. What about HLDM1:Source that was announced a few weeks back? Any more news on that? I'm holding out for Ricochet:Source. -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Re: hlds digest, Vol 1 #3928 - 11 msgs
Gunman Chronicles:Source :D -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of m0gely Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 5:48 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Re: hlds digest, Vol 1 #3928 - 11 msgs Tum wrote: Speaking of DOD:S and another game being in the comming soon section. What about HLDM1:Source that was announced a few weeks back? Any more news on that? I'm holding out for Ricochet:Source. -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
nah, that's ok. On 8/15/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your HLDS and SRCDS work don't they? STFU and go join a chatroom somewhere or shack up as roommates. Either way STFU. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Re: hlds digest, Vol 1 #3928 - 11 msgs
I missed this announcement. Anyone have details? And does this include any other HL1 mods (like OP4 :) :) :)? Speaking of DOD:S and another game being in the comming soon section. What about HLDM1:Source that was announced a few weeks back? Any more news on that? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
well, I'm not sure we're saying the exact same thing. The point I was trying to make was, that while a great portion of the executive's memory is going to be active all the time, and stay in RAM, a portion of it will also go unused and be candidates for the pagefile. I said I doubt that something is going to access every single page of the executive's memory. I didn't say that I thought paging activity of the executive's memory was going to be rampant, which I think is what you're saying. On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah so you agree with me there. What can we do to keep page fault latency down then? Indeed. :) In latency terms, we're talking about real-time importance. All latency added to the system for processing, particularly in IDE, are going to be significant to the next frame. Smoothing this out reduces jitter, or more definably reduces the standard deviation of server performance variables. Just out of interest with regard to this stuff, anyone started up an HLDS or SRCDS instance on QNX? -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Possible hack
OK, I'm freaking out here. Someone is running mani + console commands on my box and it's not me or any of my two other admins. I was even frozen once before I dropped out to see who,what, why this is happening. First thing I did was change RCON password and restart the server. I join and all is going well so I leave, then check HLSW and someone is talking as Console. I take a quick snapshot of all the Steam ID's involved plow into the logs. Cannot tell what is going on. People are asking the Console for Admin there are none on the box! Looks like a map was changed without a vote. I'm lost. I did ban one guy that caught my eye and nothing has happened for a little while but we'll see. There are only 3 admins, none with RCON password but me none of them were playing. Just me or anyone else getting this? Maybe a new hack out there? Oh, and it is a VAC2 secure server. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Pre-Ordering Game Software is one of the great scams of the 21st century It seems that some people, regardless of how many times they get punched in the head, are never going to learn. The other great scam is, Computer Hardware Pre-Ordering Until said software or hardware can be physically purchased from a store somewhere by myself, as far as I am concerned it does not exist. Even when people claim they can buy it, it still does not matter to me, because for all intents and purposes, no matter how much money I may in fact have, I still cannot purchase it. Make you wonder whether people are angry because they have not go their game yet, or they are angry for being conned and made to look stupid, again! The last thing I have to say is Darwin Award -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
Ya know this is coming from the same people who bought TFC 2 and pre-ordered their copy. I dont understand why people keep buying these games when theres nothing to buy. So you pre-ordered a game. Wow. As most of us will be doing, we'll be paying full prices to just download a game. Another thing that I find interesting HL2:LostCoast...wow I've been hearing things about a so called DoD:Source and now I'm hearing rumors of Half-Life 2: Aftermath. Three letters tell it all WTF? Go re-make counter strike again and sell it. Surely some one will buy it the 4th time around. Whisper wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Pre-Ordering Game Software is one of the great scams of the 21st century It seems that some people, regardless of how many times they get punched in the head, are never going to learn. The other great scam is, Computer Hardware Pre-Ordering Until said software or hardware can be physically purchased from a store somewhere by myself, as far as I am concerned it does not exist. Even when people claim they can buy it, it still does not matter to me, because for all intents and purposes, no matter how much money I may in fact have, I still cannot purchase it. Make you wonder whether people are angry because they have not go their game yet, or they are angry for being conned and made to look stupid, again! The last thing I have to say is Darwin Award -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Just a little ranting
Here are a few things that I've heard about but seen little or no action being placed for such. 1. Team Fortress Classic 2.People even pre-ordered their copies of the game 2. Half-Life 2 Lost Coast...so its on the soon to come list...I'll believe it when I see it. 3. Half-Life 2: Aftermath. Heard about this game via www.megagames.com said it'd be released along with the X-bug 360 4. DoD:Source Again, I've seent this game on the Soon to come list for decadescan you not create a game? If valve will EVER actually produce a game properly and give a release date rather then just farting around, perhaps we'd be more itnersted. Give us a multi-player demo or something phyiscal. Screenshots only go so far. Come 3 years we'll all be saying, Hey man, can you wait for doom 5? The graphics engine is amazing. And we'll reply, Nah I'm still waiting for Day of Defeat Source. Now is the time for valve to rise up and actually get some work done. Give us a game that some of us ordered and do it in a timely fashion. Is that so much to ask? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Just a little ranting
Please STFU this is not a rant mailing list. It is for people who need help with there servers. I for one don't care when a game comes out aslong as it comes out and it gets supported. I installed bf2 (EA is Crap) and god i am very happy for valve and steam. Saves alot for troulbe so please stop ranting about games on the coming soon list. - Original Message - From: Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Just a little ranting Here are a few things that I've heard about but seen little or no action being placed for such. 1. Team Fortress Classic 2.People even pre-ordered their copies of the game 2. Half-Life 2 Lost Coast...so its on the soon to come list...I'll believe it when I see it. 3. Half-Life 2: Aftermath. Heard about this game via www.megagames.com said it'd be released along with the X-bug 360 4. DoD:Source Again, I've seent this game on the Soon to come list for decadescan you not create a game? If valve will EVER actually produce a game properly and give a release date rather then just farting around, perhaps we'd be more itnersted. Give us a multi-player demo or something phyiscal. Screenshots only go so far. Come 3 years we'll all be saying, Hey man, can you wait for doom 5? The graphics engine is amazing. And we'll reply, Nah I'm still waiting for Day of Defeat Source. Now is the time for valve to rise up and actually get some work done. Give us a game that some of us ordered and do it in a timely fashion. Is that so much to ask? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Just a little ranting
[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] 1: there is no team fortress classic 2. It's TF2. 3:dod:s hasn't been on coming soon for decades fool. If you're goin to rant, do it without exagerating cause you just make yourself look worse then you already do for ranting on a help mailing list. If VALVe were just farting around, then those updates must come from trees. You know damn well if they said a release date missed it for whatever reason, people would be bitching about it. It's just stupid to release a date for software. Lastly, you wanna rant, post in their off topic forums, not here. -- From: Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Just a little ranting Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:44:58 -0400 Here are a few things that I've heard about but seen little or no action being placed for such. 1. Team Fortress Classic 2.People even pre-ordered their copies of the game 2. Half-Life 2 Lost Coast...so its on the soon to come list...I'll believe it when I see it. 3. Half-Life 2: Aftermath. Heard about this game via www.megagames.com said it'd be released along with the X-bug 360 4. DoD:Source Again, I've seent this game on the Soon to come list for decadescan you not create a game? If valve will EVER actually produce a game properly and give a release date rather then just farting around, perhaps we'd be more itnersted. Give us a multi-player demo or something phyiscal. Screenshots only go so far. Come 3 years we'll all be saying, Hey man, can you wait for doom 5? The graphics engine is amazing. And we'll reply, Nah I'm still waiting for Day of Defeat Source. Now is the time for valve to rise up and actually get some work done. Give us a game that some of us ordered and do it in a timely fashion. Is that so much to ask? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
Ok I'll respond to this just because Im tired of hearing about it, if you would have taken the time to read what was said about the new game (Ragdoll Kung Fu) you would have noticed Valve is not developing it. It is being developed by a private developer. Valve is just putting it on Steam. Yes Im sure they get royalties but they are not doing the developing they have theyre resources spread out a little far I would think to be bringing up anything new. stalker333 wrote: Yes, it did, but that wasn't really my point. Point is, having 2-3 games almost done doesn't help anyone. Look I understand everyone gets defensive of Valve, and usually for good reason (they are being blamed for something stupid) but this, frankly, is only Valve. Now, call me crazy, but I just like getting what I paid for. Again, I know people hate to hear that (oddly enough) and I don't mind waiting, but g'damn! How much artwork are they doing?!? Again, I don't mean to piss anyone off, but even Valve knows this is getting old, some of them anyway. -Smurf Message: 6 From: [GS]BeNt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:27:16 -0500 Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com - Original Message - From: stalker333 [EMAIL PROTECTED] What bugs me, is that DOD:S isn't out yet, and has been in the coming soon catagory for Lets see, since Oct 5th of 04. Now, they have added yet another game/mod/episode whatever to coming soon. Ever think there is alot more than one development team in one house and under one roof? BeNt http://www.gorillazsouth.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Half Life server problems
I'm having severe problems with my server, listen or dedicated. For my listen server, my listenserver.cfg is as follows. ip [external ip hidden] port 27015 sv_region 0 sv_lan 0 // Execute the Admin Mod configuration file exec addons/adminmod/config/adminmod.cfg and is placed in D:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\lordtalon\counter-strike\cstrike Whenever I run a listen server, my server does not show up on the master server list and X-Fire lists the ip of the server I'm currently in as 69.28.148.250:27014 My connection runs through a router which I have forwarded port 27015 to myself and also added my computer as a DMZ host. The following was taken from the console in my listen server ] ip ip is [external ip hidden] ] sv_lan sv_lan is 0 ] sv_region sv_region is 0 ] port port is 27015 I do not understand why my server is not showing up on the master server list nor why x-fire lists my ip incorrectly. On my dedicated server, my ip is listed as my private ip and not my external. Nor could I find a .cfg to modify within my lordtalon/dedicated server folder. My question is why is my server not reaching the main primary server and if I add my server as a favorite ie [external ip hidden]:27015 to my favorites list, it shows non responsive for either situation while my priavte ip ex: 192.168.1.102:27015 shows the server. The authentication has passed within steam and it says it's Connection to Steam Servers Sucessful when I type manually the sv_lan 0 command. Any help is much appreciated, thank you ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] DoD Exploit
I released the plugin: http://www.amxmodx.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=144889 The person who first replyed and said he would be willing to help test it never gave any feedback, so i posted it publicly. Those who install it on their server, please give feedback. And and read the first post in the forum thread carfully. On another note, those who only run amxmod and not amxmodx can proberbly use this plugin. Just download the sma and compile it. It may also be posible to port this plugin to adminmod. - Original Message - From: Erling K. Sæterdal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:57 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] DoD Exploit Thx for the heads up, i have made a amxmodx plugin to detect this exploit. If someone has a populated DoD server and can help me beta test, please email me offlist. Il release to the public once its had a minor beta test. - Original Message - From: Your Name [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 5:51 AM Subject: [hlds] DoD Exploit One of my regulars pointed out someone doing something fishy on a server today and the idiot actually talked enough about it that I could track it down. http://www.gotfrag.com/dod/forums/thread/147822/ Basically it looks like they execute this command string and they get the run of the server. Well do the following bind p changeclass; wait; jointeam 4 enjoy! Farther down, someone added this: lol tis fun, especially at the beginning of the rounds, its like a free ride to spawn camping. its spec glitching but it starts you at the middle or some where close. Dont go to servers with FF on because your teamates will shoot you. ohh and flash british side, you spawn in a spot that you cant get out of. And this: they fixed the old one were while your dead you hit changeteam; changeclass and you choose spectatots than a weapon, but yea you spawn in teh middle of the map on all maps and if you run over a flag yout ake it off the map until you die. The log entries look like this every time the guy did it: L 08/13/2005 - 21:42:27: roflcakes10STEAM_0:0:2112501Allies committed suicide with world L 08/13/2005 - 21:42:27: roflcakes10STEAM_0:0:2112501Allies joined team 0%¾ $¾Ð|¾aÚÆexec %s.cfg ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds __ NOD32 1.1193 (20050812) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds __ NOD32 1.1193 (20050812) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Just a little ranting
No one forced you to open my email and write a reply. Get over it and get on with your life eh? Had you not told me STFU I would've saved you the trouble of reciving another email. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please STFU this is not a rant mailing list. It is for people who need help with there servers. I for one don't care when a game comes out aslong as it comes out and it gets supported. I installed bf2 (EA is Crap) and god i am very happy for valve and steam. Saves alot for troulbe so please stop ranting about games on the coming soon list. - Original Message - From: Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Just a little ranting Here are a few things that I've heard about but seen little or no action being placed for such. 1. Team Fortress Classic 2.People even pre-ordered their copies of the game 2. Half-Life 2 Lost Coast...so its on the soon to come list...I'll believe it when I see it. 3. Half-Life 2: Aftermath. Heard about this game via www.megagames.com said it'd be released along with the X-bug 360 4. DoD:Source Again, I've seent this game on the Soon to come list for decadescan you not create a game? If valve will EVER actually produce a game properly and give a release date rather then just farting around, perhaps we'd be more itnersted. Give us a multi-player demo or something phyiscal. Screenshots only go so far. Come 3 years we'll all be saying, Hey man, can you wait for doom 5? The graphics engine is amazing. And we'll reply, Nah I'm still waiting for Day of Defeat Source. Now is the time for valve to rise up and actually get some work done. Give us a game that some of us ordered and do it in a timely fashion. Is that so much to ask? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Just a little ranting
[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Dude, dio you not understand the concept of HLDS maining list? What you're ranting about isn't even server related so all you're doing is spamming it! -- From: Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Just a little ranting Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 23:12:45 -0400 No one forced you to open my email and write a reply. Get over it and get on with your life eh? Had you not told me STFU I would've saved you the trouble of reciving another email. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please STFU this is not a rant mailing list. It is for people who need help with there servers. I for one don't care when a game comes out aslong as it comes out and it gets supported. I installed bf2 (EA is Crap) and god i am very happy for valve and steam. Saves alot for troulbe so please stop ranting about games on the coming soon list. - Original Message - From: Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Just a little ranting Here are a few things that I've heard about but seen little or no action being placed for such. 1. Team Fortress Classic 2.People even pre-ordered their copies of the game 2. Half-Life 2 Lost Coast...so its on the soon to come list...I'll believe it when I see it. 3. Half-Life 2: Aftermath. Heard about this game via www.megagames.com said it'd be released along with the X-bug 360 4. DoD:Source Again, I've seent this game on the Soon to come list for decadescan you not create a game? If valve will EVER actually produce a game properly and give a release date rather then just farting around, perhaps we'd be more itnersted. Give us a multi-player demo or something phyiscal. Screenshots only go so far. Come 3 years we'll all be saying, Hey man, can you wait for doom 5? The graphics engine is amazing. And we'll reply, Nah I'm still waiting for Day of Defeat Source. Now is the time for valve to rise up and actually get some work done. Give us a game that some of us ordered and do it in a timely fashion. Is that so much to ask? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
uh, nobody mentioned Ragdoll Kung Fu...they're talking about Lost Coast, DoDS, (TFC2, Aftermath)... On 8/15/05, T3XAN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok I'll respond to this just because Im tired of hearing about it, if you would have taken the time to read what was said about the new game (Ragdoll Kung Fu) you would have noticed Valve is not developing it. It is being developed by a private developer. Valve is just putting it on Steam. Yes Im sure they get royalties but they are not doing the developing they have theyre resources spread out a little far I would think to be bringing up anything new. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Just a little ranting
Children. Calm Down. This is the HLDS (and srcds) mailing list. *NOT* the I want to rant about valve and steam to people who are trying to get help with their servers mailing list. Jason, you are in the wrong here, shouting doesn't make you right. If you wish to complain about steam stuff, go to the steam forums, or hell, email valve staff if you must*. *They'll love you for it, honest. Jason wrote: No one forced you to open my email and write a reply. Get over it and get on with your life eh? Had you not told me STFU I would've saved you the trouble of reciving another email. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please STFU this is not a rant mailing list. It is for people who need help with there servers. I for one don't care when a game comes out aslong as it comes out and it gets supported. I installed bf2 (EA is Crap) and god i am very happy for valve and steam. Saves alot for troulbe so please stop ranting about games on the coming soon list. - Original Message - From: Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:44 PM Subject: [hlds] Just a little ranting ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Possible hack
I had something similar happen to me once but mani was not involved. Someone who had just connected to the server (not even in the game yet) managed to hack the quite complex rcon password and start spamming dozens of lines of hahahahahahaha as console chat all within one second. When I noticed this in the logs the next day (some other event caused me to look through my logs and I came across this), I changed the rcon password and I haven't noticed it since. This was like 4 months ago. Drew On 8/15/05, Chris K [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I'm freaking out here. Someone is running mani + console commands on my box and it's not me or any of my two other admins. I was even frozen once before I dropped out to see who,what, why this is happening. First thing I did was change RCON password and restart the server. I join and all is going well so I leave, then check HLSW and someone is talking as Console. I take a quick snapshot of all the Steam ID's involved plow into the logs. Cannot tell what is going on. People are asking the Console for Admin there are none on the box! Looks like a map was changed without a vote. I'm lost. I did ban one guy that caught my eye and nothing has happened for a little while but we'll see. There are only 3 admins, none with RCON password but me none of them were playing. Just me or anyone else getting this? Maybe a new hack out there? Oh, and it is a VAC2 secure server. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
Drew, How long do you think they have been working on DOD:S (not when beta opened), which WAS just a port when they started? Just wonder a guess. Days? I would hardly be bitching about that, and frankly would have been very impressed lol. Now we can go on and on talking about WHY it's not released yet, and even why they all the sudden decided to spend months on artwork, I have a few ideas. Again that's not the point though and I'm not going to argue those ideas with people who don't really know either. So we'll leave that as it is. Point is, I (and most of you) have paid for a game to see it sit in the coming soon section of steam, and hey, we got to see some screenshots and videos! lol As for being a beta tester, thats great, good for you. That doesnt change anything though, and doesn't mean you know anything about whats going on behind closed doors either. Not saying that to be a jerk, but unless Valve is very different from most developers, you don't know much more than we do at this point. So thanks for pointing that out, but no, it doesn't mean you know anything in regards to the release. Sorry to upset the Valve purists, but it was my opinion that this coming soon thing is BS, you don't like that opinion, that's up to you. But don't assume I don't understand software development, been there, but this is beyond working the bugs out. -Smurf Message: 4 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:05:10 -0500 From: Drew Hostetler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Games aren't made in days. DoD:S is much more than a port. I believe I read somewhere that they originally thought it would be mostly a port (which prompted the Coming Soon listing in Steam), but they decided to overhaul a bunch of stuff to make it a much better game. Have you seen the screenshots? But what do I know? I was only on the beta test team. Drew ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
Can't speak to this specifically, but since play testing of DOD:S has taken over the Valve office I think it's safe to say they at least have some input ;-) -Smurf Message: 5 From: SANDY LEBLANC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:06:58 + Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] The only time I hear Activision named is when someone refers to the original DoD not the port over. IMO, I think VALVe is soley doing the port over. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
Ruiner, Thank you for pointing that out, I started playing TFC and still do, would LOVE to see a TFC port. However, valve has pretty much poo pooed all over that idea, in favor of TF2. Which is fine with me, at least they don't CLAIM we'll get TFC:S. Though they never said we wouldnt get TFC:S either, if I remember right. That's not the case with DOD:S. Funny thing about all this is, part of the reason (small part, but still) that I started playing DOD more often, was I thought it would get better support than TFC. It does, I mean, at least DOD:S is coming at some point, but here I am still looking at coming soon. Meanwhile CS:S is being updated every other week. That, as penn and teller would say, is BULLSHIT. -Smurf Message: 5 From: Ruiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 16:26:22 -0400 Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Hehe, you guys are frustrated that your game is listed in Coming Soon? You don't know how lucky you are! The TFC community has been left in the dark for so long... ! TFC:S? TF:2? Who knows. Be happy at least the mod is coming soon... ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking
Gold huh, I wonder what it was missing as far as internal comments. Did you ever get the red sections of text that were source code? I can't even count how many stupid times I got that talk on we do not release or copy red source out of KB articles. I mean realy, like who I am going to take it to and with out the complete code what real good was a few lines? Sorry walk down memory lane terminated (paged). From: James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:39:02 +0100 On 8/15/05, Dustin Tuft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Minor interjection.. Did I miss understand the whole point of mixing Virtual and Physical ram? was it not the point of the OS telling the App where and how to get memory, and if I am not mistaken, Apps don't even directly touch ram, that little interface called HAL handles it, so as far as the App is concerned it's all physical ram. Yes, but changes in the environment affect the system in a particular way, you understand. The app controls merely the volume of memory it allocates (and most of the time de-allocs ;-p). Nothing contrary to this has been discussed by either of us. So back to the point, static setup for a static need, it's not like were going to have a melt down if you can't lunch solitaire on the server that's meant for serving... Well that's exactly it, also the memory manager is very creative in these situations. Don't you just love the yellow boxes. oh yes the MS KB, how I miss the internal one, if only I was allowed a burner while I was employed under the PSS outsource :'( I lost access to a gold partner and mvp login, not everything though. n'er mind. From: Clayton Macleod [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] windows 2003 memory tweaking Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 05:25:53 -0700 Been too long I guess, I don't recall. For some reason my memory seems to do better with the meat than with the potatoes. Yeah, I addressed the collateral stuff in my next post there. I'm not saying the executive memory space is unimportant. I only said that applications' memory space isn't the executive's memory space. Because it's not, they're definitely seperate from each other, and handled seperately/differently. I simply stated that this setting doesn't affect applications and the paging of their memory. Perhaps it would've been more accurate to say that this setting doesn't *directly* affect applications and their paging activity. Since the only way it affects it is by the fact that if you disable the executive's paging you are left with a smaller amount of RAM that could be available to applications. And indirectly this could/would change the amount of paging the applications experience. But windows comes with a default setting to allow the executive's memory space to be paged out for a reason, because portions of it can be inactive enough to warrant paging it out. No reason for my scanner driver to be in RAM when the scanner hasn't been used or even looked at since bootup, for instance. And allowing the executive to be paged would likely mean that driver would indeed be paged out whenever the OS could use that RAM elsewhere. Even if it's only a few dozen k. On 8/15/05, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The most common cause of misrepresentation is the fact that Windows pre-pages most data to prevent massive delays in freeing physical ram when necessary. Was it Wang that was talking about that? Might have been, and IIRC it was discussed during beta 2. Just because taskmgr doesn't report accurately does not mean the system cannot account for all memory. Wang would be most upset (and probably out of a job) if this was the case. Complete enumeration of these values is costly however, which is why it's unecessary for taskmgr. It's almost more important to have the values provided anyway. phew. It does, because all changes to paging rates will change paging rates of other applications too. Call it what you will, starvation, pre-tension, or any of the other terms that people have tried to use to coin the factor of side-effects within dynamic caching algorithms, but it's princliple is the same. If there is something that needs to be regularly accessed but is not regularly scheduled it can cause failures (well, fail is too strong a word, but you know.) in the algorithms which can be reduced by changing their run-time settings. This is simply what happens in this scenario. Never underestimate how active the kernel and driver pages are! Please don't try to tell me that the executive memory space is unimportant, I know that you already know this isn't true. -- Clayton Macleod get ye flask You cannot get ye flask.
RE: [hlds] Coming Soon BS...
Hey... Get in line :) We are still demanding an update for TFC first! Whether it's TFC:S or TF2 I could give a rats ass.. I just want Valve to know that they *DO* have responsibilities besides CS :( -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of stalker333 Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 12:46 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Coming Soon BS... Valve, Wasn't going to post about this, but every time I look at it, it pisses me off. S... [rant=on] DOD:S has been coming soon for almost a year, and now to add insult to injury, you put ANOTHER game in the coming soon category? Didn't you learn your lesson the first time? Not only will it likely be in coming soon for a while still, but don't you think you should release the game you *already* said was coming soon, first? If you took a vote of all the DOD players, I'm sure they would, most of them anyway, rather you release the damn beta at this point. Let us work the bugs out :P Now, one other thing. When I paid for HL2, I was told, on your website, I would get DOD:S. There was no, let me say that again, NO mention of it not being released yet until you clicked a link to take you to more info on DOD:S. Didn't see that until after I paid for HL2. May be different now, but thats how it was when I paid for my copy. Now, that's fine (not really, but for the purposes of this discussion), because I know it'll get here one day. However, for those of us who don't like CS or DM, would be nice to have our mods playable too. So hows about taking this lost coast group and putting them to work on DOD:S, get that out the door, then come back to LC. I don't remember being told I would get LC when I paid for HL2, DOD:S I did. Ok, that made me feel better. [/rant=off] -Smurf ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
