[hlds_linux] Is there any information we can provide to Valve to help resolve the recent server performance issues?

[Essay Tew Phaun]

We've noticed our servers acting very poorly after the Halloween update.
Our servers were pretty smooth prior, now players are reporting a lot of
random freezing issues and I'm noticing a lot of gaps in my own net_graph
report. I did not observe any of this prior to the Halloween update. Both
of our systems run CentOS. One is 6.2 64bit and the other 6.3 32bit.

Are there any details we can further provide to help rectify this issue?

http://i.imgur.com/f7UnP.png
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Re: [hlds_linux] Optional Team Fortress 2 update released

[Essay Tew Phaun]

Well, we're getting it on Linux so we can at least rule out (Maybe?) an OS
specific issue.
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Re: [hlds_linux] Optional Team Fortress 2 update released

[Dave Rosca]

Also have server fps spikes and generally much lower server fps since the
halloween update. Running on windows. Haven't installed the optional update
though.

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Frank  wrote:

> Anyone else getting this when trying to enter your servers - seems a map
> reset fixes it but I had a few I didn't notice people couldn't join due to
> getting this and they(the servers) nearly died.
>
> disconnected (reason "Server info data overflow")
>
>
> That is what they see when trying to enter the servers.
>
>
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[hlds_linux] Server Crashing / Freezing - "DataTable warning" console floods

[Marco Padovan]

This:

DataTable warning: player: Out-of-range value (.x) in
SendPropFloat 'm_flLastDamageTime', clamping.

is still happening :/
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Re: [hlds_linux] Optional Team Fortress 2 update released

[Frank]

Anyone else getting this when trying to enter your servers - seems a map
reset fixes it but I had a few I didn't notice people couldn't join due to
getting this and they(the servers) nearly died.

disconnected (reason "Server info data overflow")


That is what they see when trying to enter the servers.


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Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but it is for everyone else

[Benedict Glover]

I have solved my problem. End this thread here.

> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 20:41:53 +0100
> From: i...@pbservers.nl
> To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but it is for 
> everyone else
> 
> maybe you unsubscribe from the mailing list? Its better for me, for you and
> Aaron..
> 
> 2012/10/28 Benedict Glover 
> 
> >
> > And maybe you should learn to read, dumbass. That reply is from THE SAME
> > FUCKING PERSON posted AFTER IT WAS PUT HERE.
> >
> > > From: velt...@gmail.com
> > > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 03:31:42 +0100
> > > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but it is
> > for everyone else
> > >
> > > If it is working for EVERYONE just fine but not for you it seems that it
> > > something on your end.
> > > You have a thread on allied forums with an istruction how to fix this. If
> > > you can't do this maybe you should delete your server?
> > >
> > > 2012/10/28 Benedict Glover 
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Ugh, I feel unbelievably dumb right now. Forgotten I had only
> > temporarily
> > > > disabled SELinux and had since rebooted my system when Halloween came
> > > > around.
> > > > Ugh. Thank you very much.
> > > >
> > > > > From: neobened...@hotmail.co.uk
> > > > > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> > > > > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 00:37:35 +0100
> > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but it
> > is
> > > > for everyone else
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll try completely disabling this piece of ...
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: asher...@gmail.com
> > > > > > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 00:35:32 +0100
> > > > > > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but
> > it is
> > > > for everyone else
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Freezes on plugin loading is caused by SELinux being enabled and
> > > > > > srcds_linux not being granted execstack and execheap.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ~
> > > > > > "Their heads are green, and their hands are blue,
> > > > > >   And they went to sea in a Sieve." - Edward Lear
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Anders Olsson <
> > bran...@hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Use latest and it will work!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Metamod  1.10.0-devV
> > > > > > > Sourcemod 1.5.0-dev+3675
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Ursprungligt meddelande- From: Giovanni Harting
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:31 AM
> > > > > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but
> > it
> > > > is for
> > > > > > > everyone else
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Witch version do you use? Working is latest sm dev snapshot and
> > > > metamod
> > > > > > > 1.10 dev snapshot
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2012/10/28 Benedict Glover 
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Since Alliedmodders isn't giving me any responce, I'd like to
> > know
> > > > how
> > > > > > >> everyone has managed to get sourcemod working but me. I've tried
> > > > > > >> everything, but it will always lock up whenever it tries to
> > load any
> > > > > > >> plugin
> > > > > > >> (and all I want atm is the ones that come with it). I've tried
> > > > recompiling
> > > > > > >> the plugins from the scripting folder, tried the windows
> > plugins,
> > > > but it
> > > > > > >> keeps hanging on:
> > > > > > >> L 10/28/2012 - 01:27:48:  Mapchange to
> > koth_lakeside_event
> > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Sourcemod loads fine with no plugins in the plugins folder,
> > however
> > > > as
> > > > > > >> soon as I put one in and try to load it it just freezes.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> ___
> > > > > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > > > archives,
> > > > > > >> please visit:
> > > > > > >>
> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > > > archives,
> > > > > > > please visit:
> > > > > > >
> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > > > archives,
> > > > > > > please visit:
> > > > > > >
> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ___
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> > archives,
> > > > please visit:
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> > > > >
> > > 

Re: [hlds_linux] Trends

[Marco Padovan]

I keep getting crashesthat results in server losing all players and
restarting I suspect that leads to "downward fast"? LOL


Il 28/10/2012 20.22, Benedict Glover ha scritto:
> What do the different trends mean? "Steady", "Downward Fast", "Upward Fast" - 
> which is better, which will get more people?
> 
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Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but it is for everyone else

[Pieter-bas Ronner]

maybe you unsubscribe from the mailing list? Its better for me, for you and
Aaron..

2012/10/28 Benedict Glover 

>
> And maybe you should learn to read, dumbass. That reply is from THE SAME
> FUCKING PERSON posted AFTER IT WAS PUT HERE.
>
> > From: velt...@gmail.com
> > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 03:31:42 +0100
> > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but it is
> for everyone else
> >
> > If it is working for EVERYONE just fine but not for you it seems that it
> > something on your end.
> > You have a thread on allied forums with an istruction how to fix this. If
> > you can't do this maybe you should delete your server?
> >
> > 2012/10/28 Benedict Glover 
> >
> > >
> > > Ugh, I feel unbelievably dumb right now. Forgotten I had only
> temporarily
> > > disabled SELinux and had since rebooted my system when Halloween came
> > > around.
> > > Ugh. Thank you very much.
> > >
> > > > From: neobened...@hotmail.co.uk
> > > > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> > > > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 00:37:35 +0100
> > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but it
> is
> > > for everyone else
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'll try completely disabling this piece of ...
> > > >
> > > > > From: asher...@gmail.com
> > > > > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 00:35:32 +0100
> > > > > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but
> it is
> > > for everyone else
> > > > >
> > > > > Freezes on plugin loading is caused by SELinux being enabled and
> > > > > srcds_linux not being granted execstack and execheap.
> > > > >
> > > > > ~
> > > > > "Their heads are green, and their hands are blue,
> > > > >   And they went to sea in a Sieve." - Edward Lear
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Anders Olsson <
> bran...@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > Use latest and it will work!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Metamod  1.10.0-devV
> > > > > > Sourcemod 1.5.0-dev+3675
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Ursprungligt meddelande- From: Giovanni Harting
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:31 AM
> > > > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but
> it
> > > is for
> > > > > > everyone else
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Witch version do you use? Working is latest sm dev snapshot and
> > > metamod
> > > > > > 1.10 dev snapshot
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2012/10/28 Benedict Glover 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Since Alliedmodders isn't giving me any responce, I'd like to
> know
> > > how
> > > > > >> everyone has managed to get sourcemod working but me. I've tried
> > > > > >> everything, but it will always lock up whenever it tries to
> load any
> > > > > >> plugin
> > > > > >> (and all I want atm is the ones that come with it). I've tried
> > > recompiling
> > > > > >> the plugins from the scripting folder, tried the windows
> plugins,
> > > but it
> > > > > >> keeps hanging on:
> > > > > >> L 10/28/2012 - 01:27:48:  Mapchange to
> koth_lakeside_event
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Sourcemod loads fine with no plugins in the plugins folder,
> however
> > > as
> > > > > >> soon as I put one in and try to load it it just freezes.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ___
> > > > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > > archives,
> > > > > >> please visit:
> > > > > >>
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> > > > > >>
> > > > > > ___
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > > archives,
> > > > > > please visit:
> > > > > >
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ___
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > > archives,
> > > > > > please visit:
> > > > > >
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
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> archives,
> > > please visit:
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> > > >
> > > > ___
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> archives,
> > > please visit:
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> > >
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> > > please visit:
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> > >
> > ___
> >

Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but it is for everyone else

[Benedict Glover]

And maybe you should learn to read, dumbass. That reply is from THE SAME 
FUCKING PERSON posted AFTER IT WAS PUT HERE.

> From: velt...@gmail.com
> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 03:31:42 +0100
> To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but it is for 
> everyone else
> 
> If it is working for EVERYONE just fine but not for you it seems that it
> something on your end.
> You have a thread on allied forums with an istruction how to fix this. If
> you can't do this maybe you should delete your server?
> 
> 2012/10/28 Benedict Glover 
> 
> >
> > Ugh, I feel unbelievably dumb right now. Forgotten I had only temporarily
> > disabled SELinux and had since rebooted my system when Halloween came
> > around.
> > Ugh. Thank you very much.
> >
> > > From: neobened...@hotmail.co.uk
> > > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> > > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 00:37:35 +0100
> > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but it is
> > for everyone else
> > >
> > >
> > > I'll try completely disabling this piece of ...
> > >
> > > > From: asher...@gmail.com
> > > > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 00:35:32 +0100
> > > > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but it is
> > for everyone else
> > > >
> > > > Freezes on plugin loading is caused by SELinux being enabled and
> > > > srcds_linux not being granted execstack and execheap.
> > > >
> > > > ~
> > > > "Their heads are green, and their hands are blue,
> > > >   And they went to sea in a Sieve." - Edward Lear
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Anders Olsson 
> > wrote:
> > > > > Use latest and it will work!
> > > > >
> > > > > Metamod  1.10.0-devV
> > > > > Sourcemod 1.5.0-dev+3675
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -Ursprungligt meddelande- From: Giovanni Harting
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:31 AM
> > > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
> > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sourcemod STILL not working for me but it
> > is for
> > > > > everyone else
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Witch version do you use? Working is latest sm dev snapshot and
> > metamod
> > > > > 1.10 dev snapshot
> > > > >
> > > > > 2012/10/28 Benedict Glover 
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Since Alliedmodders isn't giving me any responce, I'd like to know
> > how
> > > > >> everyone has managed to get sourcemod working but me. I've tried
> > > > >> everything, but it will always lock up whenever it tries to load any
> > > > >> plugin
> > > > >> (and all I want atm is the ones that come with it). I've tried
> > recompiling
> > > > >> the plugins from the scripting folder, tried the windows plugins,
> > but it
> > > > >> keeps hanging on:
> > > > >> L 10/28/2012 - 01:27:48:  Mapchange to koth_lakeside_event
> > > > >> 
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sourcemod loads fine with no plugins in the plugins folder, however
> > as
> > > > >> soon as I put one in and try to load it it just freezes.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ___
> > > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > archives,
> > > > >> please visit:
> > > > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> > > > >>
> > > > > ___
> > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > archives,
> > > > > please visit:
> > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > archives,
> > > > > please visit:
> > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > please visit:
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> > >
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> > please visit:
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> >
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[hlds_linux] Trends

[Benedict Glover]

What do the different trends mean? "Steady", "Downward Fast", "Upward Fast" - 
which is better, which will get more people?
  
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Re: [hlds_linux] TF2 vs Garrysmod orangebox (@valve please fix) still...

[Marcel]

On 28.10.2012 12:46, Daniel . wrote:

Like Prithu said, use a separate -dir for each game


Won't work.

The fix is to exchange some files because valve fucked up the 
compatibility (including for a VANILLA(!)-garrysmod-only-installation):


http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1221195&p=38205548&viewfull=1#post38205548

Actually you only have to replace the srcds_linux and following .so files:

crashhandler.so
datacache.so
dedicated.so
engine.so
libtier0.so
libvstdlib.so
materialsystem.so
replay.so
scenefilecache.so
shaderapiempty.so
studiorender.so
vphysics.so



- Marcel

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Re: [hlds_linux] TF2 vs Garrysmod orangebox (@valve please fix) still...

[Daniel .]

Like Prithu said, use a separate -dir for each game

2012/10/28 Marcel 

> On 28.10.2012 12:15, Prithu Parker wrote:
>
>> Valve does not maintain Garry's mod, and the binaries should by nature
>> be expected to be different. Make a separate installation for Garry's mod.
>>
>
> Well yeah. That would be the best.
>
> Btw. my garrysmod server currently just crashes with a segmentation fault
> on startup. Although it's a vanilla brand new installation.
>
> Updated with:
> ./steam -command update -game garrysmod -verify_all -dir .srcds_l
>
> The debug.log is not really promising:
>
>
> $ ./srcds_run -debug -game garrysmod +map gm_construct
>
> Auto detecting CPU
> Using default binary: ./srcds_linux
> Enabling debug mode
> Server will auto-restart if there is a crash.
> Using breakpad minidump system
> Using breakpad crash handler
>
> Console initialized.
> ./srcds_run: line 372: 14047 Segmentation fault  (core dumped) $HL_CMD
> cat: hlds.13998.pid: No such file or directory
> email debug.log to li...@valvesoftware.com
>
>
>
> --**
> CRASH: Sun Oct 28 12:38:53 CET 2012
> Start Line: ./srcds_linux -debug -game garrysmod +map gm_construct
> End of Source crash report
> --**
>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] TF2 vs Garrysmod orangebox (@valve please fix) still...

[Marcel]

On 28.10.2012 12:15, Prithu Parker wrote:

Valve does not maintain Garry's mod, and the binaries should by nature
be expected to be different. Make a separate installation for Garry's mod.


Well yeah. That would be the best.

Btw. my garrysmod server currently just crashes with a segmentation 
fault on startup. Although it's a vanilla brand new installation.


Updated with:
./steam -command update -game garrysmod -verify_all -dir .srcds_l

The debug.log is not really promising:


$ ./srcds_run -debug -game garrysmod +map gm_construct

Auto detecting CPU
Using default binary: ./srcds_linux
Enabling debug mode
Server will auto-restart if there is a crash.
Using breakpad minidump system
Using breakpad crash handler

Console initialized.
./srcds_run: line 372: 14047 Segmentation fault  (core dumped) $HL_CMD
cat: hlds.13998.pid: No such file or directory
email debug.log to li...@valvesoftware.com



--
CRASH: Sun Oct 28 12:38:53 CET 2012
Start Line: ./srcds_linux -debug -game garrysmod +map gm_construct
End of Source crash report
--

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Re: [hlds_linux] TF2 vs Garrysmod orangebox (@valve please fix) still...

[Prithu Parker]

Valve does not maintain Garry's mod, and the binaries should by nature 
be expected to be different. Make a separate installation for Garry's mod.


On 28/10/2012 10:05 PM, Marcel wrote:

: still not fixed and fucks up every update :


Hi,

I've updated my srcds_l installation which contains garrysmod and tf2. 
The last update was for Garrysmod and gmod works fine. But TF2 crashes 
instantly. I then updated TF2 with verify_all and it updated some 
binaries. TF2 works fine but then Garrysmod hangs on startup.


Following orangebox/bin .so differ after each updates which 
invalidates the other:


datacache.so: FAILED
dedicated.so: FAILED
engine.so: FAILED
libtier0.so: FAILED
libvstdlib.so: FAILED
materialsystem.so: FAILED
scenefilecache.so: FAILED
shaderapiempty.so: FAILED
soundemittersystem.so: FAILED
studiorender.so: FAILED


@Valve: Could you please fix it so that garrysmod and tf2 use the same 
.so binaries?



Marcel



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[hlds_linux] TF2 vs Garrysmod orangebox (@valve please fix) still...

[Marcel]

: still not fixed and fucks up every update :


Hi,

I've updated my srcds_l installation which contains garrysmod and tf2. 
The last update was for Garrysmod and gmod works fine. But TF2 crashes 
instantly. I then updated TF2 with verify_all and it updated some 
binaries. TF2 works fine but then Garrysmod hangs on startup.


Following orangebox/bin .so differ after each updates which invalidates 
the other:


datacache.so: FAILED
dedicated.so: FAILED
engine.so: FAILED
libtier0.so: FAILED
libvstdlib.so: FAILED
materialsystem.so: FAILED
scenefilecache.so: FAILED
shaderapiempty.so: FAILED
soundemittersystem.so: FAILED
studiorender.so: FAILED


@Valve: Could you please fix it so that garrysmod and tf2 use the same 
.so binaries?



Marcel



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Re: [hlds_linux] slow quickplay?

[Erik-jan Riemers]

It seems people are finding them manually now. Slowly some servers are
getting filled.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Thorsten
Knoll
Sent: zondag 28 oktober 2012 11:03
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] slow quickplay?

For my servers it took a little longer too. But now i扉e 20 event247
servers filled up via quickplay. In europe. It took around 2 hours for
~500 slots.

moss

at 28.10.2012 10:48, Erik-jan Riemers wrote:
> So,
>
> I got 7 people on a halloween server, and nothing is coming on
quickplay.
> Yesterday I started a server and I could blink my eyes and it was full..
>
> Already rebooted, checked registration and sv_tags. It could just be
> slow compared to yesterday, but after all people should be awake by
> now in Europe. ;)
>
> Erik
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] slow quickplay?

[Thorsten Knoll]

For my servers it took a little longer too. But now i´ve 20 event247 
servers filled up via quickplay. In europe. It took around 2 hours for 
~500 slots.


moss

at 28.10.2012 10:48, Erik-jan Riemers wrote:

So,

I got 7 people on a halloween server, and nothing is coming on quickplay.
Yesterday I started a server and I could blink my eyes and it was full..

Already rebooted, checked registration and sv_tags. It could just be slow
compared to yesterday, but after all people should be awake by now in
Europe. ;)

Erik

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[hlds_linux] slow quickplay?

[Erik-jan Riemers]

So,

I got 7 people on a halloween server, and nothing is coming on quickplay.
Yesterday I started a server and I could blink my eyes and it was full..

Already rebooted, checked registration and sv_tags. It could just be slow
compared to yesterday, but after all people should be awake by now in
Europe. ;)

Erik

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Re: [hlds_linux] Running a Halloween Server

[dan]

On 28/10/2012 07:38, Maavrik wrote:
I always felt that TF2 was meant to be silly.  For instance, the Scout 
knows he's in a video game, not very serious if you ask me


It doesn't follow that in order for the content of the game "not to be 
serious" that it doesn't

matter what that content of the game is or how the mechanics of it work.

If any old crap worked because "It's not serious" then Splash Damage 
could be successful PC game developers :)


As I said, I think it would be more fun had this particular update 
considered what happens when you play the map, rather than them (after 
finally realising that the random boxes appearing
somewhere on the map was a crap idea) having to sit and think of ways of 
making this suck because otherwise their "customers" won't value the 
items they've farmed.


They even make it suck if you don't have the right number of people? 
Why? Why can borderlands 2 manage to work with 1 player or 4 players, 
but Valve can
only write a game that needs 6 people otherwise they switch off half the 
mechanics or it doesn't scale? There doesn't seem to be any shortage of 
people willing to pay
for Borderlands 2. Worse are these stupid ideas now that you can't leave 
a game, even if your house catches fire "Our game sucks with less than 6 
players and our solution to this is
to get rid of players from our community who have to leave the server" - 
err, doesn't that just make it even /less/ likely to get 6 players? Why 
not just design your game to work with
however many players there are? The TF2 community manages to do that, as 
the 6v6, highlander, 12v12 and 32 man servers show (well ok
the 32 man servers show you can only go so far with an idea) But why 
can't I play single player MvM or 2 or 3 player Halloween maps and have 
it all work?


I'm willing to pay for the 3 copies of the game (I thought I'd already 
paid for 2 of the effing copies you're now telling me every year I can't 
play this mode or that mode

because there aren't enough people. Evidently I didn't pay enough)

If the answer to all the questions ultimately ends with some nod to the 
idea that items have to be valuable, then those answers suck and it's a huge
mistake to take your games down these gaming dead ends imo.  Sure, 
you'll make lots of money. I can look at how many halfwits are buying 
rings on sale and

see that, but it makes the games themselves suck.

Valuing the game, especially playing it, seems to be no longer an 
option. If it ever generated revenue, it doesn't
now (except, I suppose, for the ticket idea in MvM which you could argue 
is about paying to play towards the objective to get items. Not
a bad idea but it's MvM where they've taken everything developers could 
do with AI in 2003 and made it worse.  Where's the challenge in hitting 
the tank for example?
TF2 has all these wonderful game mechanics, projectile weapons - the 2 
nade firing guns, for example, are fantastic and really rewarding to get 
hits with (I would
argue they are the best weapons in any multiplayer game) and mechanics 
like sticky and rocket jumping. All of this rich content was ignored to 
instead fight a bunch of AI that just walk in straight lines - so
not only do they not use any of these mechanics but you don't need to 
use any of them against them either.  My grandmother would probably 
struggle to miss them and she's been dead for over a decade.


Unfortunately, MvM removed all of the good work they did, since F2P, in 
getting lots of vanilla servers full of people playing TF2 multiplayer. 
Now I find myself
scrabbling around a bunch of badly configured 3rd party servers with 
half the server trading or sitting somewhere on the map having 
"meetings" where hardly anyone actually plays once again.
The irony here, of course (as we can see from the other thread with folk 
noticing their quickplay servers filling instantly) as the Halloween 
update brings in a ton of people to play, they are given something 
that's barely worth playing
and you say "it's not supposed to be serious", but I don't want it to be 
serious, I want it to be fun.


Yes, some aspects of the map are fun, like the changing health packs, 
the exploding pumpkins, the pit you fall down if you miss the jump for 
the health and so on, but the first of these have been used for several 
years now and most of the new ideas are just content that has been taken 
from roll the dice and frog mods and so on - except there is actually a 
modicum of sense behind how the RTD servers implemented it.


--
Dan.

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Re: [hlds_linux] Running a Halloween Server

[Tyler]

Doesn't Valve know that rockets don't make you jump higher in the air??? Is
this a bug???

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 12:38 AM, Maavrik  wrote:

> I always felt that TF2 was meant to be silly.  For instance, the Scout
> knows he's in a video game, not very serious if you ask me
>
> Also I discovered that the number of people you need in a server is 10.
>
>
> On 27/10/2012 11:57 AM, doc wrote:
>
>> Yeah and what's the deal with getting candy for health I wish Valve would
>> take the game a little more seriously!!!
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Maavrik  wrote:
>>
>>  That's exactly what I was going for Dan.  Get a group of friends and then
>>> go at Merasmus.
>>>
>>> I decided to try one public matchmaking server, but there were 3
>>> screaming
>>> kids on it, and it was quite unbearable.  I'm pretty sure, however,
>>> Merasmus is not supposed to make sense.  Forcing everyone to stand facing
>>> the other team, and doing the halloween taunt while Merasmus screams
>>> "DANCE, DANCE!" isn't really all that serious. When someone on that one
>>> pub
>>> server killed me, there was a pumpkin that he picked up on the killcam,
>>> and
>>> I never saw one after that.  I have no idea how to get to skull island,
>>> but
>>> it probably has to do with killing Merasmus.
>>>
>>> Once again thanks for your help.
>>>
>>> On 27/10/2012 1:38 AM, dan wrote:
>>>
>>>  On 27/10/2012 08:03, Maavrik wrote:

  Alright, thanks for your help Dan.
>
>  Well I wouldn't hold your breath, seems like a bit of a non-event TBH.

 The ideas for capping the point make no sense. big head / little head?
 There are no head shots anyway
 for the vast majority of the classes and weapons. Ideas like crits and
 uber? When both sides get them at the same time are pretty pointless.

 Is this a bug? Surely only the capping team was supposed to get the card
 effects?

 None of the pub servers I've tried have been good enough to kill the
 boss
 and I've not seen any items or anything
 resembling going to skull island etc. The rest of the time it's the
 shambles that koth is (please do the next event so it isn't koth based)

 Dialling back the fun all for the sake of the economy? Meh, I'd much
 prefer to just buy a game and play it with the fun included - do we
 really
 care about some
 halfwits collection of buds being devalued? Or even paying to play it
 (you have the ticket idea) but the economy results in removing the fun
 from
 the game artifically
   - it might give jobs for fleeing Greek economists but aside from that
 not a great idea :-(

 Worse thing for a company that is customer focused is to realise you're
 no longer a customer if you use their product  and that they have no
 way of paying for TF2 if your interest is in playing it. Valve have
 effectively stopped selling games :(

 All in all, not the best tf2 experience I've ever had (not the least the
 couple of times I tried the matchmaking and got on a server
 with 32 players and premium accounts and so on being getting lucky - not
 Valve's fault, but if these people cheated with the client they would
 have
 been banned
 permanently years ago, it's not like they are different people running
 these servers)

 It might be more fun later with an organised go at it.


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Re: [hlds_linux] Running a Halloween Server

[Maavrik]

I always felt that TF2 was meant to be silly.  For instance, the Scout 
knows he's in a video game, not very serious if you ask me


Also I discovered that the number of people you need in a server is 10.

On 27/10/2012 11:57 AM, doc wrote:

Yeah and what's the deal with getting candy for health I wish Valve would
take the game a little more seriously!!!

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Maavrik  wrote:


That's exactly what I was going for Dan.  Get a group of friends and then
go at Merasmus.

I decided to try one public matchmaking server, but there were 3 screaming
kids on it, and it was quite unbearable.  I'm pretty sure, however,
Merasmus is not supposed to make sense.  Forcing everyone to stand facing
the other team, and doing the halloween taunt while Merasmus screams
"DANCE, DANCE!" isn't really all that serious. When someone on that one pub
server killed me, there was a pumpkin that he picked up on the killcam, and
I never saw one after that.  I have no idea how to get to skull island, but
it probably has to do with killing Merasmus.

Once again thanks for your help.

On 27/10/2012 1:38 AM, dan wrote:


On 27/10/2012 08:03, Maavrik wrote:


Alright, thanks for your help Dan.


Well I wouldn't hold your breath, seems like a bit of a non-event TBH.

The ideas for capping the point make no sense. big head / little head?
There are no head shots anyway
for the vast majority of the classes and weapons. Ideas like crits and
uber? When both sides get them at the same time are pretty pointless.

Is this a bug? Surely only the capping team was supposed to get the card
effects?

None of the pub servers I've tried have been good enough to kill the boss
and I've not seen any items or anything
resembling going to skull island etc. The rest of the time it's the
shambles that koth is (please do the next event so it isn't koth based)

Dialling back the fun all for the sake of the economy? Meh, I'd much
prefer to just buy a game and play it with the fun included - do we really
care about some
halfwits collection of buds being devalued? Or even paying to play it
(you have the ticket idea) but the economy results in removing the fun from
the game artifically
  - it might give jobs for fleeing Greek economists but aside from that
not a great idea :-(

Worse thing for a company that is customer focused is to realise you're
no longer a customer if you use their product  and that they have no
way of paying for TF2 if your interest is in playing it. Valve have
effectively stopped selling games :(

All in all, not the best tf2 experience I've ever had (not the least the
couple of times I tried the matchmaking and got on a server
with 32 players and premium accounts and so on being getting lucky - not
Valve's fault, but if these people cheated with the client they would have
been banned
permanently years ago, it's not like they are different people running
these servers)

It might be more fun later with an organised go at it.



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Re: [hlds_linux] MVM Crash

[dan]

On 27/10/2012 18:08, ics wrote:
I also remember atleast one saturday update, propably two during 7 
years. They are rare but they do happen occasionally.


I can name at least 3.

Not that I'm going to for some buffoon who says "No" when he has no clue 
whether there were any or not.


If he wants to know when he can do the leg work himself :) The wiki has 
the dates.


--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] MVM Crash

[dan]

On 27/10/2012 16:53, Cameron Munroe wrote:

When?


Saturday.

--
Dan

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