Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Adam Holt]

Alex & Walter,

I can come by Walter's office if nec in coming weeks, to arrange shipping
to Alex etc?

Adam


On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Walter Bender 
wrote:

>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Alex Perez  wrote:
>
>> Walter,
>>
>> On 2016-06-13 15:02:02 +, Walter Bender said:
>>
>> Off the top of my head, the bulk chargers do 10 batteries at a time. I
>>> have two to donate to a large order.
>>>
>>
>> Well, I bought the lot of these, and, in addition, another ~90 units,
>> which have various cosmetic issues, such as damaged keyboard membranes,
>> damaged LCDs, etc.
>>
>> Any chance I can borrow those bulk chargers? :)
>>
>
> Sure. They are sitting in my office at MIT for the taking.
>
> -walter
>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> 
>
> ___
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>
> --
> Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @ http://unleashkids.org !
> 
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Walter Bender]

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Alex Perez  wrote:

> Walter,
>
> On 2016-06-13 15:02:02 +, Walter Bender said:
>
> Off the top of my head, the bulk chargers do 10 batteries at a time. I
>> have two to donate to a large order.
>>
>
> Well, I bought the lot of these, and, in addition, another ~90 units,
> which have various cosmetic issues, such as damaged keyboard membranes,
> damaged LCDs, etc.
>
> Any chance I can borrow those bulk chargers? :)
>

Sure. They are sitting in my office at MIT for the taking.

-walter

>
>
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Alex Perez]

Walter,

On 2016-06-13 15:02:02 +, Walter Bender said:

Off the top of my head, the bulk chargers do 10 batteries at a time. I 
have two to donate to a large order.


Well, I bought the lot of these, and, in addition, another ~90 units, 
which have various cosmetic issues, such as damaged keyboard membranes, 
damaged LCDs, etc.


Any chance I can borrow those bulk chargers? :)


-walter




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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Walter Bender]

On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Laura Vargas 
wrote:

>
>
> 2016-06-13 19:05 GMT+08:00 Walter Bender :
>
>> I have to say I with Samuel Greenfeld on this one. There are lots of
>> potential issues with these machines (depending upon how they have been
>> stored and maintained.) They could well have dead batteries (both the main
>> battery and the battery for the RTC). They most certainly will need an
>> investment in time by someone getting them unlocked and reflashed as well.
>> That said, if we go that route, I have two bulk battery charging racks we
>> could add to the mix.
>>
>> Google just donated 8000 chromebooks to the X-Prize. Maybe we could try
>> to go that route?
>>
>>
> Reading at http://learning.xprize.org/about/guidelines I found that
> registration to participate in the competition is now closed. Is this the
> same you are suggesting?
>

I was not suggesting we apply for the X-Prize. (As I said in an earlier
thread, I didn't think it was a good match for Sugar Labs either as an
organization or in terms of pedagogy.) I referred to the X-Prize donation
only in order to substantiate the idea of soliciting a small donation of
hardware from Google as a reference platform.

regards.

-walter

>
> -walter
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:20 AM, Samuel Greenfeld 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> FOB (Freight on Board) means that the responsibility for customs fees,
>>> shipping charges, etc. belongs to the buyer.  XOs directly purchased from
>>> OLPC historically had similar terms.
>>>
>>> The shipping calculator on that listing can give you a rough idea of
>>> what it would cost to get to you in the US (around $500-$1000 uninsured).
>>>
>>> Personally I think it is a waste of funds and time given that someone
>>> will have to go through all 172 XOs to verify their functionality,
>>> determine which 10-year-old batteries still can hold a charge, make
>>> repairs, etc.  It would primarily be of interest to projects which already
>>> get donated XO-1s and could salvage parts of necessary, but not necessarily
>>> at the $4k price point.
>>>
>>> Reselling the laptops as usable also would incur a bit of liability that
>>> the recycler (selling as-is) is not willing to take.  About the only good
>>> thing is that this recycler does not appear to be shipping from
>>> Massachusetts, where one recycler was selling pre-release parts even after
>>> being told they were not usable by anyone else.
>>>
>>>
>>> While we seem to have discovered Sugar Labs has money this year, Sugar
>>> Labs is not a bank for everyone's little pet project.  *Before* we spend
>>> any significant portion of funds beyond the significant amount already
>>> allocated for stipends & translation, I would like to see proof that Sugar
>>> Labs can fund raise most of the money already spent back.
>>>
>>> The only valid way I could see doing this would be to ask the recycler
>>> if they would be willing to just donate the laptops to the SFC (or another
>>> 501(c)3 registered XO-using nonprofit) and take the profit as a tax
>>> writeoff.  But *before* this gets done, it really needs to be discussed by
>>> Sugar Labs' board {NOT people begging the recycler to do so via individual
>>> actions - if anything that would encourage them to raise their expected
>>> price}.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Sean DALY  wrote:
>>>
 they mean loading dock i.e. where you send the truck
 Sean


 On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Sam Parkinson <
 sam.parkins...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dave, I don't frequent EBay listings, but it says:
>
> >  Customer is responsible for arrangement of freight trucking pickup
> and insurance from our dock
>
> Is that referring to the charging docks or the palette of laptops?
>
> Obviously this is a small detail that doesn't effect the discussion,
> but it would probably change the figures a bit.
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
> Hi
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514
> I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110 release, 
> and
> sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly clear $100 each, so
> this will raise around $13,000
> --
> Cheers Dave ___ IAEP --
> It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>


 ___
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 16 June 2016 at 09:00, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Do we want these or not? :)
>

I guess not!
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Laura Vargas]

2016-06-13 19:05 GMT+08:00 Walter Bender :

> I have to say I with Samuel Greenfeld on this one. There are lots of
> potential issues with these machines (depending upon how they have been
> stored and maintained.) They could well have dead batteries (both the main
> battery and the battery for the RTC). They most certainly will need an
> investment in time by someone getting them unlocked and reflashed as well.
> That said, if we go that route, I have two bulk battery charging racks we
> could add to the mix.
>
> Google just donated 8000 chromebooks to the X-Prize. Maybe we could try to
> go that route?
>
>
Reading at http://learning.xprize.org/about/guidelines I found that
registration to participate in the competition is now closed. Is this the
same you are suggesting?

-walter
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:20 AM, Samuel Greenfeld 
> wrote:
>
>> FOB (Freight on Board) means that the responsibility for customs fees,
>> shipping charges, etc. belongs to the buyer.  XOs directly purchased from
>> OLPC historically had similar terms.
>>
>> The shipping calculator on that listing can give you a rough idea of what
>> it would cost to get to you in the US (around $500-$1000 uninsured).
>>
>> Personally I think it is a waste of funds and time given that someone
>> will have to go through all 172 XOs to verify their functionality,
>> determine which 10-year-old batteries still can hold a charge, make
>> repairs, etc.  It would primarily be of interest to projects which already
>> get donated XO-1s and could salvage parts of necessary, but not necessarily
>> at the $4k price point.
>>
>> Reselling the laptops as usable also would incur a bit of liability that
>> the recycler (selling as-is) is not willing to take.  About the only good
>> thing is that this recycler does not appear to be shipping from
>> Massachusetts, where one recycler was selling pre-release parts even after
>> being told they were not usable by anyone else.
>>
>>
>> While we seem to have discovered Sugar Labs has money this year, Sugar
>> Labs is not a bank for everyone's little pet project.  *Before* we spend
>> any significant portion of funds beyond the significant amount already
>> allocated for stipends & translation, I would like to see proof that Sugar
>> Labs can fund raise most of the money already spent back.
>>
>> The only valid way I could see doing this would be to ask the recycler if
>> they would be willing to just donate the laptops to the SFC (or another
>> 501(c)3 registered XO-using nonprofit) and take the profit as a tax
>> writeoff.  But *before* this gets done, it really needs to be discussed by
>> Sugar Labs' board {NOT people begging the recycler to do so via individual
>> actions - if anything that would encourage them to raise their expected
>> price}.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Sean DALY  wrote:
>>
>>> they mean loading dock i.e. where you send the truck
>>> Sean
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Sam Parkinson <
>>> sam.parkins...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Dave, I don't frequent EBay listings, but it says:

 >  Customer is responsible for arrangement of freight trucking pickup
 and insurance from our dock

 Is that referring to the charging docks or the palette of laptops?

 Obviously this is a small detail that doesn't effect the discussion,
 but it would probably change the figures a bit.

 Thanks,
 Sam

 On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

 Hi
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514
 I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110 release, and
 sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly clear $100 each, so
 this will raise around $13,000
 --
 Cheers Dave ___ IAEP --
 It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep


 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> 
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 

Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:

> the IAEP list: It's an educational project, remember.



Sorry Jonas, I was thinking of you and others when I moved the discussion
to the Marketing list.
Sean.
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Dave Crossland (2016-06-16 15:14:32)
> On 16 June 2016 at 09:16, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:
>> Quoting Dave Crossland (2016-06-16 14:48:56)
>>> I think this is a really important discussion for the wider 
>>> community, as it relates to the future/vision topic :)
>>
>> It is very very rarely sensible to cross-post.  Less so follow-ups!
>>
>> I guess multiple lists were created not for _speakers_ to reach more 
>> readers, but for readers to allow _readers_ to limit what they 
>> receive.
>>
>
> I am sad about the fragmentation of the Sugar community across so many 
> lists.
>
>
>> I am _very_ close to unsubscribing due to the recent amount of noise 
>> on the IAEP list: It's an educational project, remember.
>>
>
> Which threads specifically do you think do not relate to the 
> educational aim of the project?

Why do you respond to each and every post with a question?

[ No, please don't answer that - especially not with a question! ]


  - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 16 June 2016 at 09:16, Jonas Smedegaard  wrote:

> Quoting Dave Crossland (2016-06-16 14:48:56)
> > I think this is a really important discussion for the wider community,
> > as it relates to the future/vision topic :)
>
> It is very very rarely sensible to cross-post.  Less so follow-ups!
>
> I guess multiple lists were created not for _speakers_ to reach more
> readers, but for readers to allow _readers_ to limit what they receive.
>

I am sad about the fragmentation of the Sugar community across so many
lists.


> I am _very_ close to unsubscribing due to the recent amount of noise on
> the IAEP list: It's an educational project, remember.
>

Which threads specifically do you think do not relate to the educational
aim of the project?
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

Do we want these or not? :)

-- Forwarded message --
From: 
Date: 16 June 2016 at 02:09
Subject: Re: [UKids] Unleash Kids / KOC trip to rescue laptops - April
To: Dave Crossland , Alex Perez 
Cc: Unleash Kids! 


Alex,

Yes, I commit to paying freight plus costs for 10 carts to Burton MI
 (Flint suburb).  Estimated freight for three pallets was $458 by ARS
calculator,  so two pallets with carts should be in the neighborhood of
$300.   Payment by PayPal.  Guessing you would split shipment from
Alpharetta.  Will work with any arrangement that happens.Also, would
entertain sharing XO items, if they are more than you have use for.

However,  I would yield to Dave if he has a specific project in mind.   I
 am acting to prevent any discard and, in part, to sweeten an uncertain
local promotion for Adam's XSCE content on XO-1.

As a side note, I did read the IAEP thread about the auction.  In my
opinion, there was little appreciation of the actual market value of
refurbished XO-1's or their parts.   Retail price for quality units  is
closer to $50 than $100.  The real value of these XO-1's is as a group and
perhaps in some way involving an XSCE in a deployment.

Nathan Riddle
Michigan Community Repair Center
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 14 June 2016 at 12:09, Sean DALY  wrote:

> >On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 4:56 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> >> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> >>
> >>> A brand that is not being diluted is stale, rigid, dying.
> >>
> >> I completely disagree, but it doesn't matter.

>

> Please speak up! :) Why do you think brand dilution is not a
> very positive thing?


> Dropping everyone but SL Marketing from a marketing discussion.
>

I think this is a really important discussion for the wider community, as
it relates to the future/vision topic :)


> A strong brand is a differentiator, which practices exclusion.
>

I kindly assert a brand does not need to practice exclusion to
differentiate from other brands in the same space - eg, _many_ companies
use Helvetica as their type identity, but are not confused. Most companies
use 'retail' typefaces that anyone can purchase a license to for a very
modest cost (typically well under $500.) Exclusion _may_ help a brand,
which is why some companies commission custom typefaces that no-one else
has access to. Eg, Google used Catull for over a decade, available to
anyone who could pay, and last year switched to their own custom brand
type, Product Sans.

The premiere NY design museum, the Cooper Hewitt, released its
(expensively) commissioned custom typeface as a libre font -
https://github.com/cooperhewitt/cooperhewitt-typeface - because its brand
designers have the same position I do.


> This might seem contradictory for a free libre open source software
> project, but then again, most such projects have feeble marketing.
>

I assert it is contradictory for _any_ brand who wants to engage with the
vibrant remix culture that epitomises the current decade. If your customers
love your brand, they want to participate in diluting it. I think an
insistence on deterring them is a hold-over from previous decades.


> For anyone to adopt a brand, they have to feel close to it and know what
> it stands for, what it is and what it definitely is not.
>

How can anyone adopt a brand without diluting it?


> Brand dilution means the vision of the brand losing focus, applying its
> values to products, services or ideas outside its core association.
>

I would rephase this as: Brand dilution means the vision of the brand
expanding to new horizons, apply its values to products, services and ideas
beyond its core that still express its values, and thus add value to the
brand.


> Brand owners often try to extend a brand, since the rewards can be
> substantial. However more often than not a diluted brand loses its power
> and is considered has-been, irrelevant or worthless.
>

I kindly assert this is only true for some brands, and not a universal
truth :)

The point is that Sugar's brand is not very strong, but the green $100
laptop brand is strong. So it would be good to continue using green laptops
if we have any reference hardware.

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> A brand that is not being diluted is stale, rigid, dying.



I completely disagree, but it doesn't matter.
Sean.
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 14 June 2016 at 09:16, Sean DALY  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>> > That color combination has been very widely copied, even today.
>>
>> I think the amount of copying ought to be seen as a metrics of success
>> for a brand.
>
> Sure, except it dilutes the brand.

I am asserting that this dilution is a positive outcome - in the age
of cheap social media and memes, brands don't have control as they did
in the age of expensive mass media; and per the medium is the message
and all that, the new media environment changes the value of the
outcomes. A brand that is not being diluted is stale, rigid, dying.

>> > which is why I invested in the SL branded memory sticks
>
> At the time everyone clamored for several, to be
> distributed at conferences and such.

How much did you/we sell them for?

> This was over six years ago, so I probably wouldn't recommend the same
> supplier, better to start from scratch, especially since the payment to them
> was delayed at the time - if they remember our small order, it may not be
> fondly. The key criteria in my choice was that they were willing to do
> several color variants in the tiny run of 100 sticks, as a favor if we would
> bring subsequent business,

Cool :)

> which in the end didn't happen.

Yikes - why not?

>> > and had the beauty shots created at the time.
>>
>> Where are these located? :)
>
> wiki
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Booth_Banners
>
> see for example:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8117064.stm

Nice!!
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> > That color combination has been very widely copied, even today.
>
> I think the amount of copying ought to be seen as a metrics of success
> for a brand.
>

Sure, except it dilutes the brand.


>
>
> > which is why I invested in the SL branded memory sticks
>
> Cool! Do you still have any of those sticks left? Where did you get them
> made?
>
> I still have one or two. At the time everyone clamored for several, to be
distributed at conferences and such.

This was over six years ago, so I probably wouldn't recommend the same
supplier, better to start from scratch, especially since the payment to
them was delayed at the time - if they remember our small order, it may not
be fondly. The key criteria in my choice was that they were willing to do
several color variants in the tiny run of 100 sticks, as a favor if we
would bring subsequent business, which in the end didn't happen.


> > and had the beauty shots created at the time.
>
> Where are these located? :)


wiki
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Booth_Banners

see for example:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8117064.stm

Sean
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 14 June 2016 at 05:14, Sean DALY  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 6:21 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>> The green case is probably the most important thing, I think, because
>> of that brand equity
>
> The green and white case (perhaps with a "crank handle") is the only brand
> equity OLPC (and Sugar Labs) have.

Exactly! :)

> That color combination has been very widely copied, even today.

I think the amount of copying ought to be seen as a metrics of success
for a brand.

> It's always far easier to market an object than a virtual product such as
> software,

:D

> which is why I invested in the SL branded memory sticks

Cool! Do you still have any of those sticks left? Where did you get them made?

> and had the beauty shots created at the time.

Where are these located? :)

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 13 June 2016 at 22:06, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:
>
> I do not believe we would get significant new traction by trying to sell
> XO-1s.

Please enumerate why you think this.

Would XO-4s be any better?

> If we truly are going to force end of support in 2020, we should be
> having the developers focus on the next system and not going crazy trying to
> keep backwards support with the first.

What do you think 'the' next system should be?

Whatever it is, it has zero users and zero brand equity, so I think it
will be less successful at driving traction with new contributors.

All developers have old generic laptops lying around. Why would they
buy something generic, when they can just use what they already have
that's otherwise gathering dust?

None of them are GREEN and work in SUNLIGHT and are RUGGED and FLIP
and are LOW POWER.

The green case is probably the most important thing, I think, because
of that brand equity.

> As long as everything is routed through 501(c)3s and we do not go too crazy,
> the recycler might be willing to split the pallet.

The photos show the palette is wrapped and ready to ship out, so I
don't think so, but worth asking - eg we could splitt them between
NYC, SF, Fla and Boston areas, plus a couple of those known good
homes.

> If a few developers need them for testing, we could then siphon them
> as-needed.

Adam, how many XOs (any model) do you/unleashkids have available to
sell to developers?

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Having thought about this a bit more since this morning, I believe the best
course of action would be to ask the recycler to directly donate the XO-1s
to one or more projects which already accept them on a donation basis.
These include the Columbus School for Girls (http://csgolpc.weebly.com/ ),
Unleash Kids (www.unleashkids.org), etc.

I do not have a full list of all projects that are still active.

I do not believe we would get significant new traction by trying to sell
XO-1s.  If we truly are going to force end of support in 2020, we should be
having the developers focus on the next system and not going crazy trying
to keep backwards support with the first.

As long as everything is routed through 501(c)3s and we do not go too
crazy, the recycler might be willing to split the pallet.

If a few developers need them for testing, we could then siphon them
as-needed.




On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:03 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> On 13 June 2016 at 17:16, Sean DALY  wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:09 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> >>
> >> what do you see as the difference in terms of sugar feedback?
> >
> > Students not using their native language, teachers at far lower level,
> > daunting infrastructure difficulties which mean limited laptop time, very
> > limited connectivity... believe me, the contexts will have as many
> > differences as similarities
>
> Sure, I understand the socioeconomic contexts are different.
>
> How does this difference relate to getting feedback on what to work on?
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 13 June 2016 at 17:16, Sean DALY  wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:09 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>> what do you see as the difference in terms of sugar feedback?
>
> Students not using their native language, teachers at far lower level,
> daunting infrastructure difficulties which mean limited laptop time, very
> limited connectivity... believe me, the contexts will have as many
> differences as similarities

Sure, I understand the socioeconomic contexts are different.

How does this difference relate to getting feedback on what to work on?
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:09 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> what do you see as the difference in terms of sugar feedback?



Students not using their native language, teachers at far lower level,
daunting infrastructure difficulties which mean limited laptop time, very
limited connectivity... believe me, the contexts will have as many
differences as similarities

Sean
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 13 June 2016 at 13:52, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:
> I think if you tell the sponsor you want a stash to sell them, they'll be
> more than happy to keep them to sell for themselves.

I doubt it - due to the labour costs you describe below :)

> What Walter and I are getting at is that is servicing & reshipping 172 XOs
> (even if they come with 254 chargers + extra batteries) takes a lot more
> work than you may realize.

Are we supporting the XO-1 or not? :)

> While $4k might be trivial for a developer in the US to pay,

I'm sorry if I was unclear; I meant that $200 (or even $500) is pocket
money for most developers, easily fitting into their discretionary
budget for a single month.

> moving ~550 pounds/~250 kg dropped outside on a pallet into your
> apartment is not.  You will need room to store/charge/diagnose/etc.
> them - and not stacked while closed (they may overheat and melt).

Aren't they ruggedised?

> Reconditioning them could take another $4k man-hours worth of work.

The sales volume will be small so the labour time will be massively
spread out; and Sugar Labs won't pay that labour cost in USD.

> If you ship more than one or a few at a time (depending on
> origin/destination), the Lithium batteries in the laptops make them a
> hazardous shipment.  Having that many lithium batteries in one location
> might violate fire code on its own.

Its a tiny palette; storage in a shed or rented storage unit won't be
expensive for that storage volume even here in Manhattan.

> The sheer number of XO-1s put on sale at once could lower the viable sales
> price.

We could be so lucky! :)

> And in the event that some have torn keyboards/bad batteries/etc., you're
> just going to end up recycling those parts again.  It will be clear from the
> quantity that this isn't personal use, so you may have to pay for that.

I don't understand what you mean, here.

> Anyways, if done, doing this would be best handled by one of the local
> groups (OLPC-SF, etc.) where they get the room to store the laptops across
> several locations as well as several hands involved with them.

AFAICT only OLPC SF, OLPC France, and OLPC Canada are active in 2016.
Only SF is in the US.

Aaron, what do you think the OLPC SF appetite for this project is?
Would anyone in OLPC SF have access to storage and hands to process or
distribute them?

> I anticipate it would require a lot of labor & time to do this properly, and 
> anyone who
> remembers the first Give-One Get-One event would know how OLPC completely
> screwed up in this area.

That was 100,00s of laptops! This is barely 150.
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I think if you tell the sponsor you want a stash to sell them, they'll be
more than happy to keep them to sell for themselves.

What Walter and I are getting at is that is servicing & reshipping 172 XOs
(even if they come with 254 chargers + extra batteries) takes a lot more
work than you may realize.

While $4k might be trivial for a developer in the US to pay, moving ~550
pounds/~250 kg dropped outside on a pallet into your apartment is not.  You
will need room to store/charge/diagnose/etc. them - and not stacked while
closed (they may overheat and melt).

Reconditioning them could take another $4k man-hours worth of work.

If you ship more than one or a few at a time (depending on
origin/destination), the Lithium batteries in the laptops make them a
hazardous shipment.  Having that many lithium batteries in one location
might violate fire code on its own.

The sheer number of XO-1s put on sale at once could lower the viable sales
price.

And in the event that some have torn keyboards/bad batteries/etc., you're
just going to end up recycling those parts again.  It will be clear from
the quantity that this isn't personal use, so you may have to pay for that.


Anyways, if done, doing this would be best handled by one of the local
groups (OLPC-SF, etc.) where they get the room to store the laptops across
several locations as well as several hands involved with them.  I
anticipate it would require a lot of labor & time to do this properly, and
anyone who remembers the first Give-One Get-One event would know how OLPC
completely screwed up in this area.


On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> On 13 June 2016 at 04:19, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
> > $100 seems steep for an XO1.
>
> We could also offer a 100% buy-back scheme to get them back if they
> aren't used regularly, and various discounts up to 100% for developers
> who want to pay $0 but are actively contributing.
>
> > In the USA, apparently less than $100 yeilds
> > you a "tablet" from "Walmart" (can't vouch for anything... just searched
> it
> > on the net) [1].  Maybe sell it for less?  Or try $100 and see if we
> need to
> > go lower?
>
> And that's the retail price! :)
>
> I'm very sure you could get those units for less if we bought 150 from
> an OEM distributor, and like Sam G and Walter said, if we send enough
> well written donation requests we'd probably get a stash for $0 down.
>
> While, I think the XOs have immediate visceral excitement power, and
> it will help us support XO-1s, perhaps we should abandon XO-1 support
> and shift more modern but generic devices.
>
> Also, FedEx can sponsor shipments.
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 13 June 2016 at 04:19, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
> $100 seems steep for an XO1.

We could also offer a 100% buy-back scheme to get them back if they
aren't used regularly, and various discounts up to 100% for developers
who want to pay $0 but are actively contributing.

> In the USA, apparently less than $100 yeilds
> you a "tablet" from "Walmart" (can't vouch for anything... just searched it
> on the net) [1].  Maybe sell it for less?  Or try $100 and see if we need to
> go lower?

And that's the retail price! :)

I'm very sure you could get those units for less if we bought 150 from
an OEM distributor, and like Sam G and Walter said, if we send enough
well written donation requests we'd probably get a stash for $0 down.

While, I think the XOs have immediate visceral excitement power, and
it will help us support XO-1s, perhaps we should abandon XO-1 support
and shift more modern but generic devices.

Also, FedEx can sponsor shipments.
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 13 June 2016 at 11:54, Sean DALY  wrote:
> What duplication? An island fishing community with a single one-room
> school is quite a different place from an American classroom

I think there's probably more education going on in the former, but
what do you see as the difference in terms of sugar feedback?

> OK, if I understand you correctly, your idea is to recruit Sugar developers
> by selling them XO-1s individually?

Partly yes, and also to raise funds.

If a computer science professor or someone else comes along and wants
a larger order that would be great, though
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Its a big market.



OK, if I understand you correctly, your idea is to recruit Sugar developers
by selling them XO-1s individually?

This would be more efficient than engaging a computer science professor
with a class, supporting an inner-city elementary school?

Sean
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> > OLPC France has managed the Nosy Komba, Madagascar microdeployment for
> years
> > now in partnership with other NGOs and the learnings have been fantastic.
>
> Great! No need to duplicate that :)



What duplication? An island fishing community with a single one-room school
is quite a different place from an American classroom

Sean
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Walter Bender]

Off the top of my head, the bulk chargers do 10 batteries at a time. I have
two to donate to a large order.

-walter

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Hi
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 04:07, Sean DALY  wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Chihurumnaya Ibiam
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi, i think this is a good idea, but i don't think buying and selling to
> >> make profit is part of SL's agenda. I'm i wrong?
> >
> > If proceeds from the sale(s) benefit the organization and not
> individuals,
> > there is no "profit".
>
> Profit in a technical sense means surplus remaining after all fixed
> capital costs and labour costs have been paid; some of this surplus is
> typically distributed to a tax authority, and some is reinvested into
> the organization, and in a for-profit org, some is paid out to the
> shareholders as dividends.
>
> Sugar Labs is a project of a US charity, and so the US tax authority
> gives the charity a break on most tax distributions, and there are no
> shareholders so there are no dividends. However, the org still pays
> fixed capital costs and labour costs, and our project contributes to
> both of those by allocating 10% of all revenue to the org.
>
> So buying and selling anything to pay out dividends to private
> individuals is not part of SL's agenda; but buying and selling
> something to create surplus to reinvest into the project is part of
> the agenda (or ought to be, if it is to be an effective project.)
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 04:20, Sean DALY  wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:07 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> >>
> >> individual units regularly clear $100 each
> >
> > If these are functioning units, I support the idea,
>
> The listing says are functioning:
>
> This full listing says: "Qty 172 - OLPC - One Laptop Per Child XO-1
> w/7.5" TFT, 256MB RAM & 1024KB Flash ROM...All have been tested to
> post...More information about these units can be found on line at link
> below...Includes 254 chargers, 90 extra batteries plus 10 charging
> racks, if desired..Customer is responsible for arrangement of
> freight trucking pickup and insurance from our dock, FOB Destination.
> One pallet of laptops, 2 pallets of charging racksSold as
> is...Payment must be made within 24 hours of purchase."
>
> "All have been tested to post" suggest to me that they have tested
> them to at least boot and have the screen turn on. I think that is
> good enough for a developer excited about the project, which is the
> market I propose targeting.
>
> > but perhaps what should
> > be done is to try to keep them together in a single microdeployment by
> > partnering with another nonprofit, a sponsor, or a university.
>
> If this raises the same amount of funds for SL, I think that is fine,
> but I am skeptical of that.
>
> > For example a
> > college could do a project for a local elementary school. Sales logistics
> > for individual shipments are difficult, with no benefit to SL.
>
> I totally disagree, I think this is super easy; we get the bulk
> shipment to somewhere in the US (like Walter's house or my apartment)
> and then we ask members to volunteer to share the fulfillment workload
> by taking X units and sticking them under the bed or whatever; then as
> orders trickle in, we send them out one by one, using this list or a
> wiki page to co-ordinate.
>
> > Kept together, we could study the XO's place in the 2016 context,
> showing how the
> > software has evolved.
>
> Per the Pareto principle I am skeptical of the value of studying a
> group of 80 or 160 users, compared to studying a group of 3-5 users.
>
> We do not have a shortage of passive users who don't contribute code to
> Sugar.
>
> We do have a shortage of active developers who do contribute code to Sugar.
>
> > OLPC France has managed the Nosy Komba, Madagascar microdeployment for
> years
> > now in partnership with other NGOs and the learnings have been fantastic.
>
> Great! No need to duplicate that :)
>
> > These units have US keyboards and would be suited to a deployment there
> - it
> > could be problematic to deploy them elsewhere.
>
> US keyboards are ideal for developers; and are fine for anyone being
> instructed in English.
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 04:19, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
> >
> > They are XO1s... does Sugar run OK on the XO1?
>
> Yes, and it seems to me that it is essential that Sugar runs OK on the
> XO-1 for another 5 years.
>
> > $100 seems steep for an XO1.  In the USA, apparently less than $100
> yeilds
> > you a "tablet" from "Walmart" (can't vouch for anything... just searched
> it
> > on the net) [1].  Maybe sell it for less?  Or try $100 and see if we
> need to
> > go lower?
>
> For less!?
>
> Actually I would start at $200 (the RRP ;) and asking people to
> enquire about discounts if they need 'em.
>
> Software developers are one of the most expensive labour 

Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 13 June 2016 at 04:07, Sean DALY  wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Chihurumnaya Ibiam
>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi, i think this is a good idea, but i don't think buying and selling to
>> make profit is part of SL's agenda. I'm i wrong?
>
> If proceeds from the sale(s) benefit the organization and not individuals,
> there is no "profit".

Profit in a technical sense means surplus remaining after all fixed
capital costs and labour costs have been paid; some of this surplus is
typically distributed to a tax authority, and some is reinvested into
the organization, and in a for-profit org, some is paid out to the
shareholders as dividends.

Sugar Labs is a project of a US charity, and so the US tax authority
gives the charity a break on most tax distributions, and there are no
shareholders so there are no dividends. However, the org still pays
fixed capital costs and labour costs, and our project contributes to
both of those by allocating 10% of all revenue to the org.

So buying and selling anything to pay out dividends to private
individuals is not part of SL's agenda; but buying and selling
something to create surplus to reinvest into the project is part of
the agenda (or ought to be, if it is to be an effective project.)

On 13 June 2016 at 04:20, Sean DALY  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:07 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>> individual units regularly clear $100 each
>
> If these are functioning units, I support the idea,

The listing says are functioning:

This full listing says: "Qty 172 - OLPC - One Laptop Per Child XO-1
w/7.5" TFT, 256MB RAM & 1024KB Flash ROM...All have been tested to
post...More information about these units can be found on line at link
below...Includes 254 chargers, 90 extra batteries plus 10 charging
racks, if desired..Customer is responsible for arrangement of
freight trucking pickup and insurance from our dock, FOB Destination.
One pallet of laptops, 2 pallets of charging racksSold as
is...Payment must be made within 24 hours of purchase."

"All have been tested to post" suggest to me that they have tested
them to at least boot and have the screen turn on. I think that is
good enough for a developer excited about the project, which is the
market I propose targeting.

> but perhaps what should
> be done is to try to keep them together in a single microdeployment by
> partnering with another nonprofit, a sponsor, or a university.

If this raises the same amount of funds for SL, I think that is fine,
but I am skeptical of that.

> For example a
> college could do a project for a local elementary school. Sales logistics
> for individual shipments are difficult, with no benefit to SL.

I totally disagree, I think this is super easy; we get the bulk
shipment to somewhere in the US (like Walter's house or my apartment)
and then we ask members to volunteer to share the fulfillment workload
by taking X units and sticking them under the bed or whatever; then as
orders trickle in, we send them out one by one, using this list or a
wiki page to co-ordinate.

> Kept together, we could study the XO's place in the 2016 context, showing how 
> the
> software has evolved.

Per the Pareto principle I am skeptical of the value of studying a
group of 80 or 160 users, compared to studying a group of 3-5 users.

We do not have a shortage of passive users who don't contribute code to Sugar.

We do have a shortage of active developers who do contribute code to Sugar.

> OLPC France has managed the Nosy Komba, Madagascar microdeployment for years
> now in partnership with other NGOs and the learnings have been fantastic.

Great! No need to duplicate that :)

> These units have US keyboards and would be suited to a deployment there - it
> could be problematic to deploy them elsewhere.

US keyboards are ideal for developers; and are fine for anyone being
instructed in English.

On 13 June 2016 at 04:19, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
>
> They are XO1s... does Sugar run OK on the XO1?

Yes, and it seems to me that it is essential that Sugar runs OK on the
XO-1 for another 5 years.

> $100 seems steep for an XO1.  In the USA, apparently less than $100 yeilds
> you a "tablet" from "Walmart" (can't vouch for anything... just searched it
> on the net) [1].  Maybe sell it for less?  Or try $100 and see if we need to
> go lower?

For less!?

Actually I would start at $200 (the RRP ;) and asking people to
enquire about discounts if they need 'em.

Software developers are one of the most expensive labour commodities,
and buying equipment is a tax write-off for anyone who has their shit
together.

> But at $75 or $50, that's a nice thing to put on the frontpage of the site.
> This will be amazing.  We can setup the infrastructure for selling devices,
> sending updates to people, etc.  We can empower deployment who need the
> hardware.

:D

> The "profit" can probably be invested in things we need.  

Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 13 June 2016 at 07:05, Walter Bender  wrote:
> Google just donated 8000 chromebooks to the X-Prize. Maybe we could try to
> go that route?

Well, are we supporting XO-1s in the next 3 releases or not?

If we are, I think people get EXCITED about 'the little green $100
laptop' and even if these units did not come with ANY batteries but
came with PSUs, we would be able to shift 172 units worldwide out of
my studio apartment in NYC to the next 172 Sugar developers.
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Walter Bender]

I have to say I with Samuel Greenfeld on this one. There are lots of
potential issues with these machines (depending upon how they have been
stored and maintained.) They could well have dead batteries (both the main
battery and the battery for the RTC). They most certainly will need an
investment in time by someone getting them unlocked and reflashed as well.
That said, if we go that route, I have two bulk battery charging racks we
could add to the mix.

Google just donated 8000 chromebooks to the X-Prize. Maybe we could try to
go that route?

-walter

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:20 AM, Samuel Greenfeld 
wrote:

> FOB (Freight on Board) means that the responsibility for customs fees,
> shipping charges, etc. belongs to the buyer.  XOs directly purchased from
> OLPC historically had similar terms.
>
> The shipping calculator on that listing can give you a rough idea of what
> it would cost to get to you in the US (around $500-$1000 uninsured).
>
> Personally I think it is a waste of funds and time given that someone will
> have to go through all 172 XOs to verify their functionality, determine
> which 10-year-old batteries still can hold a charge, make repairs, etc.  It
> would primarily be of interest to projects which already get donated XO-1s
> and could salvage parts of necessary, but not necessarily at the $4k price
> point.
>
> Reselling the laptops as usable also would incur a bit of liability that
> the recycler (selling as-is) is not willing to take.  About the only good
> thing is that this recycler does not appear to be shipping from
> Massachusetts, where one recycler was selling pre-release parts even after
> being told they were not usable by anyone else.
>
>
> While we seem to have discovered Sugar Labs has money this year, Sugar
> Labs is not a bank for everyone's little pet project.  *Before* we spend
> any significant portion of funds beyond the significant amount already
> allocated for stipends & translation, I would like to see proof that Sugar
> Labs can fund raise most of the money already spent back.
>
> The only valid way I could see doing this would be to ask the recycler if
> they would be willing to just donate the laptops to the SFC (or another
> 501(c)3 registered XO-using nonprofit) and take the profit as a tax
> writeoff.  But *before* this gets done, it really needs to be discussed by
> Sugar Labs' board {NOT people begging the recycler to do so via individual
> actions - if anything that would encourage them to raise their expected
> price}.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Sean DALY  wrote:
>
>> they mean loading dock i.e. where you send the truck
>> Sean
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Sam Parkinson > > wrote:
>>
>>> Dave, I don't frequent EBay listings, but it says:
>>>
>>> >  Customer is responsible for arrangement of freight trucking pickup
>>> and insurance from our dock
>>>
>>> Is that referring to the charging docks or the palette of laptops?
>>>
>>> Obviously this is a small detail that doesn't effect the discussion, but
>>> it would probably change the figures a bit.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sam
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514
>>> I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110 release, and
>>> sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly clear $100 each, so
>>> this will raise around $13,000
>>> --
>>> Cheers Dave ___ IAEP -- It's
>>> An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
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>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
>
>
> ___
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>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

they mean loading dock i.e. where you send the truck
Sean


On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Sam Parkinson 
wrote:

> Dave, I don't frequent EBay listings, but it says:
>
> >  Customer is responsible for arrangement of freight trucking pickup and
> insurance from our dock
>
> Is that referring to the charging docks or the palette of laptops?
>
> Obviously this is a small detail that doesn't effect the discussion, but
> it would probably change the figures a bit.
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
> Hi
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514
> I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110 release, and
> sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly clear $100 each, so
> this will raise around $13,000
> --
> Cheers Dave ___ IAEP -- It's
> An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
>
> ___
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sam Parkinson]

Dave, I don't frequent EBay listings, but it says:

>  Customer is responsible for arrangement of freight trucking pickup 
and insurance from our dock


Is that referring to the charging docks or the palette of laptops?

Obviously this is a small detail that doesn't effect the discussion, 
but it would probably change the figures a bit.


Thanks,
Sam

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

Hi

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514

I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110
release, and sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly
clear $100 each, so this will raise around $13,000

--
Cheers
Dave
___
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sam Parkinson]

Hi Dave,

They are XO1s... does Sugar run OK on the XO1?

$100 seems steep for an XO1.  In the USA, apparently less than $100 
yeilds you a "tablet" from "Walmart" (can't vouch for anything... just 
searched it on the net) [1].  Maybe sell it for less?  Or try $100 and 
see if we need to go lower?


But at $75 or $50, that's a nice thing to put on the frontpage of the 
site.  This will be amazing.  We can setup the infrastructure for 
selling devices, sending updates to people, etc.  We can empower 
deployment who need the hardware.


The "profit" can probably be invested in things we need.  Devel work?  
More capital for selling more devices (aka. things other than XO1)?  
Anyway, that is off topic... we can deal with that if the money 
actually eventuates.


But it is also great for our growth.  Not everybody installs OSes, but 
most people are familiar with the idea of buying a box of hardware.  Is 
$75 expensive?  In a school budget yes probably.  But there are 
defiantly some people who would be willing to spend it.


This is a very good use of the SL capital.

We obviously need to think about the risk.  If we spend $4000 on XOs, 
at the price of $75, we need to sell 50 (+more to cover postage costs) 
to make the money back.  Is that likely?  I would say yes... that is 
about 2 classes of students.


Of course, people will argue that it is not SL's job to get involved in 
selling hardware.  On the same token, nobody would say that is NOT SL's 
job to promote Sugar.  Selling a small batch of hardware is just a way 
of promoting our software.  This isn't OLPC scale, SL is not becoming 
an OEM... it is "Uncle Dave's Phone Repair Shop" scale.


Thanks,
Sam

[1]  
http://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-Viking-Pro-10.1-2-in-1-Tablet-32GB-Quad-Core/45804384


On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

Hi

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514

I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110
release, and sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly
clear $100 each, so this will raise around $13,000

--
Cheers
Dave
___
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Chihurumnaya Ibiam <
ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, i think this is a good idea, but i don't think buying and selling to
> make profit is part of SL's agenda. I'm i wrong?



If proceeds from the sale(s) benefit the organization and not individuals,
there is no "profit".

Sean
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Chihurumnaya Ibiam]

Hi, i think this is a good idea, but i don't think buying and selling to
make profit is part of SL's agenda. I'm i wrong?

On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 10:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Hi
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514
>
> I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110
> release, and sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly
> clear $100 each, so this will raise around $13,000
>
> --
> Cheers
> Dave
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
___
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[IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514

I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110
release, and sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly
clear $100 each, so this will raise around $13,000

-- 
Cheers
Dave
___
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