Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 10 May 2016 at 03:31, Iain Brown Douglas 
wrote:

> > Iain, how is your slideshow coming along? :)
>
> The slideshows are good to go! I managed to eliminate the display
> problems in Browse and made a pull request
>
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs/pull/42



The slides can be previewed at
>
> http://inkyfingers.github.io/gallery
>

Thanks for this and sorry it didn't get any comments yet - I just reviewed
the PR and made some suggestions there :)

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Iain Brown Douglas]

On Mon, 2016-05-09 at 19:40 -0400, Dave Crossland wrote:


> Iain, how is your slideshow coming along? :) 

The slideshows are good to go! I managed to eliminate the display
problems in Browse and made a pull request

https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs/pull/42

The slides can be previewed at

http://inkyfingers.github.io/gallery

Thanks
Iain
> 

> Cheers
> Dave


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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

Hi!

The wiki gardening weekend is coming up in a few days!

Who would like to join myself, Walter and Bernie the weekend of May 14-15
in Boston? :)

Iain, how is your slideshow coming along? :)

For hosting Eli and I, I booked us a bunk each in the Boston Hotelling
International hotel:

https://www.booking.com/hotel/us/hostelling-international-boston.en-gb.html

I have 2 days of free cancellation, in case we can find another host.

Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

On 13 April 2016 at 10:48, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Who would like to join myself, Walter and Bernie the weekend of May 14-15
> in Boston? :)
>

Eli Heuer (the other Font Editor GSOC Mentor) will join me on the trip up
from NYC to Boston that weekend :) I just booked the Bolt Bus, $127.50 for
us both round trip.

The price of hotels in Boston/Cambridge looks ridiculous, so I wonder if
anyone in Boston/Cambridge would be willing to host either or both of us on
the evenings of Friday 13 and Saturday 14? :)
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Iain Brown Douglas]

On Thu, 2016-04-21 at 04:09 +0100, Iain Brown Douglas wrote:
> On Wed, 2016-04-20 at 10:34 +1000, James Cameron wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 04:20:49PM +0100, Iain Brown Douglas wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > It seems this conversation has gone a long way from wiki gardening :)
> > > 
> > > My feeling is that the wiki does not serve _New_to_Sugar_ users
> > > well.
> > 
> > +1
> > 
> > > Moreover as there is a lack of reliable first steps information, new
> > > content cannot be written referring back to such.
> > > 
> > > In general, I believe we need more content with screen shots aimed at
> > > _New_to_Sugar_ users, but they would be better delivered via slide show
> > > than scrolling pages.
> > > 
> > > New to Jekyll, I did not work out how to do a slide show in Jekyll and
> > > Markdown. Can anyone point to a site that does this successfully?
> > > 
> > > So I just ploughed on and generated content using Remark[1].
> > > 
> > > An alternative Sphinx-based, slide show effort is used in SoaS
> > > Loader[2], but the product became over-weight in detail. [...]
> > 
> > Programmers among us have let you down there; you've had to devote
> > many slides to a very complex install process.
> > 
> > http://soas-loader.readthedocs.org
> > 
> > Now, install for Fedora 23 SoaS is just type "sudo liveinst" in
> > Terminal activity.
> > 
> I believe 8 GB sticks made by this method are more stable than
> compressed ones.
> 
> > Future, Sugar could have a My Settings control panel which starts
> > "sudo liveinst" on demand.
> 
> What would be the protection against wiping the host hard drive? :)

Forgive noise to this list.

As I have taken this thread to address significant omissions from Sugar
_easy_install_ documentation, I think this is still on-topic, if a
repeat from @sugar-devel in the past.

I would not like a child to have a CD on my PC with "sudo liveinst" too
readily available :)

However I think the idea is still good, if "liveinst" is in a script
which asks for a removable drive to be added, asks to confirm deletion
of all data on that drive, then proceeds, omitting partitioning, to
install only to the removable drive. Experts can of course proceed from
Terminal Activity.

Cheers,

Iain
> 
> It was this concern that has stopped me writing up the liveinst method.
> 
> Liveinst to a Windows XP PC from the junk yard, is a simple way of
> introducing Sugar to home or classroom.
> 
> I am indulging in this conversation a little, thinking / dreaming of a
> non-technical "How to get Sugar 2016" ... :)
> 
> Iain
> > 
> > That way your SoaS Loader would reduce to "click here, click there,
> > answer questions".
> > 
> > (Development of this feature would be made faster by respinning SoaS with
> > updated Sugar packages.  +CC linuxmodder from #sugar.)
> > 
> > > I am submitting, again, my concept of a gallery[3] by way of
> > > conversation.
> > > 
> > > Apropos wiki gardening, are there any views on what else is wrong with
> > > the wiki?
> > > 
> > > One serious problem is that using "Search" button indicates material
> > > which may be obsolete but unmarked as such.
> > > [3] http://inkyfingers.github.io/gallery/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Once https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs/pull/19 is merged,
> > > > I'll ask systems@ to create two A records that point the sugarlabs.org
> > > > domain to 192.30.252.153 and 192.30.252.154, per
> > > > https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-an-apex-domain/
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Dave
> > > > ___
> > > > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > > > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> > 
> 
> 
> ___
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep


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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Iain Brown Douglas]

On Wed, 2016-04-20 at 10:34 +1000, James Cameron wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 04:20:49PM +0100, Iain Brown Douglas wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > It seems this conversation has gone a long way from wiki gardening :)
> > 
> > My feeling is that the wiki does not serve _New_to_Sugar_ users
> > well.
> 
> +1
> 
> > Moreover as there is a lack of reliable first steps information, new
> > content cannot be written referring back to such.
> > 
> > In general, I believe we need more content with screen shots aimed at
> > _New_to_Sugar_ users, but they would be better delivered via slide show
> > than scrolling pages.
> > 
> > New to Jekyll, I did not work out how to do a slide show in Jekyll and
> > Markdown. Can anyone point to a site that does this successfully?
> > 
> > So I just ploughed on and generated content using Remark[1].
> > 
> > An alternative Sphinx-based, slide show effort is used in SoaS
> > Loader[2], but the product became over-weight in detail. [...]
> 
> Programmers among us have let you down there; you've had to devote
> many slides to a very complex install process.
> 
>   http://soas-loader.readthedocs.org
> 
> Now, install for Fedora 23 SoaS is just type "sudo liveinst" in
> Terminal activity.
> 
I believe 8 GB sticks made by this method are more stable than
compressed ones.

> Future, Sugar could have a My Settings control panel which starts
> "sudo liveinst" on demand.

What would be the protection against wiping the host hard drive? :)

It was this concern that has stopped me writing up the liveinst method.

Liveinst to a Windows XP PC from the junk yard, is a simple way of
introducing Sugar to home or classroom.

I am indulging in this conversation a little, thinking / dreaming of a
non-technical "How to get Sugar 2016" ... :)

Iain
> 
> That way your SoaS Loader would reduce to "click here, click there,
> answer questions".
> 
> (Development of this feature would be made faster by respinning SoaS with
> updated Sugar packages.  +CC linuxmodder from #sugar.)
> 
> > I am submitting, again, my concept of a gallery[3] by way of
> > conversation.
> > 
> > Apropos wiki gardening, are there any views on what else is wrong with
> > the wiki?
> > 
> > One serious problem is that using "Search" button indicates material
> > which may be obsolete but unmarked as such.
> > [3] http://inkyfingers.github.io/gallery/
> > 
> > 
> > > Once https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs/pull/19 is merged,
> > > I'll ask systems@ to create two A records that point the sugarlabs.org
> > > domain to 192.30.252.153 and 192.30.252.154, per
> > > https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-an-apex-domain/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Cheers
> > > Dave
> > > ___
> > > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> 


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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Iain Brown Douglas]

On Tue, 2016-04-19 at 20:35 -0400, Dave Crossland wrote:
> 
> On 19 April 2016 at 19:01, Iain Brown Douglas
>  wrote:
> No I didn't try it, but it's not markdown, I think.
> 
> 
> http://lab.hakim.se/reveal-js has markdown support, seems to have even
> more features, but perhaps you want less features for the homepage :) 
> 
I did experiment with reveal, and I went with remark for its simplicity.
> 
> 
> (And, as I said earlier in the thread, I'm not convinced that 'scroll
> jacking' the page into a slide deck is ideal for the homepage anyway,
> but I think its secondary :)

Agreed, I am experimenting with a slide show in a gallery, I am with you
that a slide deck would not help our front page.

Iain
> ___
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Chris

On 20 April 2016 at 19:24, Chris Leonard  wrote:

> At the peril of actually discussing Wiki gardening on this thread,
> I've created a new wiki page to catch some areas that might deserve a
> little special attention.

https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Wiki_Team/Wiki_Gardening_Weekend_2016
>
> Please feel free to drop anything of relevance on this page
>

Great stuff!

I see your request for editorial control; that's what a git workflow
naturally allows.

Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Chris Leonard]

At the peril of actually discussing Wiki gardening on this thread,
I've created a new wiki page to catch some areas that might deserve a
little special attention.


https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Wiki_Team/Wiki_Gardening_Weekend_2016

Please feel free to drop anything of relevance on this page

cjl



On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 8:35 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
> On 19 April 2016 at 19:01, Iain Brown Douglas 
> wrote:
>>
>> No I didn't try it, but it's not markdown, I think.
>
>
> http://lab.hakim.se/reveal-js has markdown support, seems to have even more
> features, but perhaps you want less features for the homepage :)
>
> (And, as I said earlier in the thread, I'm not convinced that 'scroll
> jacking' the page into a slide deck is ideal for the homepage anyway, but I
> think its secondary :)
>
> ___
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[James Cameron]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 04:20:49PM +0100, Iain Brown Douglas wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> It seems this conversation has gone a long way from wiki gardening :)
> 
> My feeling is that the wiki does not serve _New_to_Sugar_ users
> well.

+1

> Moreover as there is a lack of reliable first steps information, new
> content cannot be written referring back to such.
> 
> In general, I believe we need more content with screen shots aimed at
> _New_to_Sugar_ users, but they would be better delivered via slide show
> than scrolling pages.
> 
> New to Jekyll, I did not work out how to do a slide show in Jekyll and
> Markdown. Can anyone point to a site that does this successfully?
> 
> So I just ploughed on and generated content using Remark[1].
> 
> An alternative Sphinx-based, slide show effort is used in SoaS
> Loader[2], but the product became over-weight in detail. [...]

Programmers among us have let you down there; you've had to devote
many slides to a very complex install process.

http://soas-loader.readthedocs.org

Now, install for Fedora 23 SoaS is just type "sudo liveinst" in
Terminal activity.

Future, Sugar could have a My Settings control panel which starts
"sudo liveinst" on demand.

That way your SoaS Loader would reduce to "click here, click there,
answer questions".

(Development of this feature would be made faster by respinning SoaS with
updated Sugar packages.  +CC linuxmodder from #sugar.)

> I am submitting, again, my concept of a gallery[3] by way of
> conversation.
> 
> Apropos wiki gardening, are there any views on what else is wrong with
> the wiki?
> 
> One serious problem is that using "Search" button indicates material
> which may be obsolete but unmarked as such.
> [3] http://inkyfingers.github.io/gallery/
> 
> 
> > Once https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs/pull/19 is merged,
> > I'll ask systems@ to create two A records that point the sugarlabs.org
> > domain to 192.30.252.153 and 192.30.252.154, per
> > https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-an-apex-domain/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Cheers
> > Dave
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> 
> 
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Iain Brown Douglas]

 in On Tue, 2016-04-19 at 18:04 -0400, Walter Bender wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> 
> On 19 April 2016 at 17:45, Walter Bender
>  wrote:
> Not such a great experience on my phone.
> 
> Did this not work?
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/FpMncO1 
> 
> It complains that my phone is not adequate -- that I should use chrome
> or safari or firefox -- and gives me a skeleton presentation.
> 
Same in Iceweasel 38.3.0

Iain
> 
> -- 
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Iain Brown Douglas]

On Tue, 2016-04-19 at 17:42 -0400, Dave Crossland wrote:
> 
> On 19 April 2016 at 17:19, Iain Brown Douglas
>  wrote:
> 
> Other slide shows I have experimented with, tend to leave too
> much white
> space, and/or it is difficult to arrange image and text
> nicely, and/or
> images have to be re-sized at production time, resulting in
> the risk of
> loss of definition.
> 
> 
> Did you try impress.js ? It has relatively simple precise positioning
> of elements, I think. 

No I didn't try it, but it's not markdown, I think. Pages are written in
(as you say) precise html, but look how simple is the source of my
Remark pages.

Thanks for looking up so many examples - it does impress :)
> 
> 
> http://impress.github.io/impress.js (official intro demo)
> 
> 
> 
> http://nice-shots.de/
> 
> 
> http://parhumm.github.io/presentation-learning-to-design/
> 
> 
> 
> http://pkoperek.github.io/bytecode-presentation/
> 
> 
> 
> http://valeka.net/freelancer/ (very nice)
> 
> 
> 
> http://sylvainw.github.io/HTML5-Future/index_en.html (more standard
> slide layouts)
> 
> 
> 
> http://aht.github.io/whatisgit/
> 
> 
> 
> http://luisgc.github.io/technical-debt-presentation/
> 
> 
> 
> http://acm.ut.ac.ir/panjare/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep


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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Walter Bender]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

>
> On 19 April 2016 at 18:04, Walter Bender  wrote:
>
>> It complains that my phone is not adequate -- that I should use chrome or
>> safari or firefox -- and gives me a skeleton presentation.
>>
>
> In fact that's just a feature of the 1st demo.
>
> http://valeka.net/freelancer/ and http://nice-shots.de seem okay on my
> phone
>


nice-shots works in my phone. freelancer does not.

Has anyone checked these sites in the Sugar browser?

-walter



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

On 19 April 2016 at 18:04, Walter Bender  wrote:

> It complains that my phone is not adequate -- that I should use chrome or
> safari or firefox -- and gives me a skeleton presentation.
>

In fact that's just a feature of the 1st demo.

http://valeka.net/freelancer/ and http://nice-shots.de seem okay on my phone
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Walter Bender]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

>
> On 19 April 2016 at 17:45, Walter Bender  wrote:
>
>> Not such a great experience on my phone.
>>
> Did this not work?
>
> http://imgur.com/FpMncO1
>

It complains that my phone is not adequate -- that I should use chrome or
safari or firefox -- and gives me a skeleton presentation.

-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

On 19 April 2016 at 17:45, Walter Bender  wrote:

> Not such a great experience on my phone.
>
Did this not work?

http://imgur.com/FpMncO1
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Walter Bender]

Not such a great experience on my phone.
On Apr 19, 2016 5:43 PM, "Dave Crossland"  wrote:

>
> On 19 April 2016 at 17:19, Iain Brown Douglas 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Other slide shows I have experimented with, tend to leave too much white
>> space, and/or it is difficult to arrange image and text nicely, and/or
>> images have to be re-sized at production time, resulting in the risk of
>> loss of definition.
>
>
> Did you try impress.js ? It has relatively simple precise positioning of
> elements, I think.
>
> http://impress.github.io/impress.js (official intro demo)
>
> http://nice-shots.de/
>
> http://parhumm.github.io/presentation-learning-to-design/
>
> http://pkoperek.github.io/bytecode-presentation/
>
> http://valeka.net/freelancer/ (very nice)
>
> http://sylvainw.github.io/HTML5-Future/index_en.html (more standard slide
> layouts)
>
> http://aht.github.io/whatisgit/
>
> http://luisgc.github.io/technical-debt-presentation/
>
> http://acm.ut.ac.ir/panjare/
>
>
>
> ___
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> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

On 19 April 2016 at 17:19, Iain Brown Douglas 
wrote:

>
> Other slide shows I have experimented with, tend to leave too much white
> space, and/or it is difficult to arrange image and text nicely, and/or
> images have to be re-sized at production time, resulting in the risk of
> loss of definition.


Did you try impress.js ? It has relatively simple precise positioning of
elements, I think.

http://impress.github.io/impress.js (official intro demo)

http://nice-shots.de/

http://parhumm.github.io/presentation-learning-to-design/

http://pkoperek.github.io/bytecode-presentation/

http://valeka.net/freelancer/ (very nice)

http://sylvainw.github.io/HTML5-Future/index_en.html (more standard slide
layouts)

http://aht.github.io/whatisgit/

http://luisgc.github.io/technical-debt-presentation/

http://acm.ut.ac.ir/panjare/
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

On 19 April 2016 at 17:19, Iain Brown Douglas 
wrote:

> the challenge is to find a "screen shot + text" slide show.
>

Jeykll is a simple static site generator; I think it can integrate well
with remarkjs, looking at view-source:http://remarkjs.com :)
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Iain Brown Douglas]

On Tue, 2016-04-19 at 13:42 -0400, Dave Crossland wrote:
> 
> On 19 April 2016 at 11:20, Iain Brown Douglas
>  wrote:
> It seems this conversation has gone a long way from wiki
> gardening :)
> 
> 
> 
> :D
> 
> What I have in mind for the wiki gardening is focused entirely on the
> wiki content; and making a list of wiki pages to be migrated to the
> website

Hi Dave, great.

So that work could be started any time, one suggestion, a wiki category
"Proposed for migration to website".

> (and I have WIP for a PR to make the website wiki-like.) 
> 
> New to Jekyll, I did not work out how to do a slide show in
> Jekyll and Markdown. Can anyone point to a site that does this
> successfully?
> 
> https://github.com/bmcmurray/hekyll
> 
I guess my question was mis-phrased, the challenge is to find a "screen
shot + text" slide show.

Remark does quite a good job of re-sizing images, allowing a predictable
amount of text and avoiding image or text running off screen.

Other slide shows I have experimented with, tend to leave too much white
space, and/or it is difficult to arrange image and text nicely, and/or
images have to be re-sized at production time, resulting in the risk of
loss of definition.

Getting out nice quality Sugar images, nicely placed on screen is quite
important to me.

Regards

Iain

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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

On 19 April 2016 at 11:20, Iain Brown Douglas 
wrote:

> It seems this conversation has gone a long way from wiki gardening :)
>

:D

What I have in mind for the wiki gardening is focused entirely on the wiki
content; and making a list of wiki pages to be migrated to the website (and
I have WIP for a PR to make the website wiki-like.)

New to Jekyll, I did not work out how to do a slide show in Jekyll and
Markdown.
> Can anyone point to a site that does this successfully?


https://github.com/bmcmurray/hekyll
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Walter Bender]

Iain,

Great material.

-walter

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 11:20 AM, Iain Brown Douglas <
i...@browndouglas.plus.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 2016-04-12 at 23:48 -0400, Dave Crossland wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Martin!
> >
> > On 12 April 2016 at 17:02, Martin Dengler 
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12 Apr 2016, at 14:45, Dave Crossland 
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On 12 April 2016 at 15:38, Martin Dengler
> > >  wrote:
> > > The point is that because it's a waste of work and
> > > nobody wants to do it,
> > >
> > > Give me the keys and I'll do it.
> >
> >
> > You don't need keys. You need a wiki replacement. You need to
> > do the work to create a replacement for wiki.sl.o. Then the
> > DNS can be changed.  It's super-easy to say "let's do it" and
> > super-hard to actually do it. Put your wiki where your mouth
> > is :).
> >
> >
> > https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs is the replacement.
> >
> >
>
> Hi all,
>
> It seems this conversation has gone a long way from wiki gardening :)
>
> My feeling is that the wiki does not serve _New_to_Sugar_ users well.
>
> Moreover as there is a lack of reliable first steps information, new
> content cannot be written referring back to such.
>
> In general, I believe we need more content with screen shots aimed at
> _New_to_Sugar_ users, but they would be better delivered via slide show
> than scrolling pages.
>
> New to Jekyll, I did not work out how to do a slide show in Jekyll and
> Markdown. Can anyone point to a site that does this successfully?
>
> So I just ploughed on and generated content using Remark[1].
>
> An alternative Sphinx-based, slide show effort is used in SoaS
> Loader[2], but the product became over-weight in detail.
>
> I am submitting, again, my concept of a gallery[3] by way of
> conversation.
>
> Apropos wiki gardening, are there any views on what else is wrong with
> the wiki?
>
> One serious problem is that using "Search" button indicates material
> which may be obsolete but unmarked as such.
>
> Regards,
>
> Iain
>
> [1] http://remarkjs.com
> [2] http://soas-loader.readthedocs.org
> [3] http://inkyfingers.github.io/gallery/
>
>
> > Once https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs/pull/19 is merged,
> > I'll ask systems@ to create two A records that point the sugarlabs.org
> > domain to 192.30.252.153 and 192.30.252.154, per
> > https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-an-apex-domain/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cheers
> > Dave
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
>
> ___
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>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Iain Brown Douglas]

On Tue, 2016-04-12 at 23:48 -0400, Dave Crossland wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Martin!
> 
> On 12 April 2016 at 17:02, Martin Dengler 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 12 Apr 2016, at 14:45, Dave Crossland 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > On 12 April 2016 at 15:38, Martin Dengler
> >  wrote:
> > The point is that because it's a waste of work and
> > nobody wants to do it,
> > 
> > Give me the keys and I'll do it. 
> 
> 
> You don't need keys. You need a wiki replacement. You need to
> do the work to create a replacement for wiki.sl.o. Then the
> DNS can be changed.  It's super-easy to say "let's do it" and
> super-hard to actually do it. Put your wiki where your mouth
> is :).
> 
> 
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs is the replacement. 
> 
> 

Hi all,

It seems this conversation has gone a long way from wiki gardening :)

My feeling is that the wiki does not serve _New_to_Sugar_ users well.

Moreover as there is a lack of reliable first steps information, new
content cannot be written referring back to such.

In general, I believe we need more content with screen shots aimed at
_New_to_Sugar_ users, but they would be better delivered via slide show
than scrolling pages.

New to Jekyll, I did not work out how to do a slide show in Jekyll and
Markdown. Can anyone point to a site that does this successfully?

So I just ploughed on and generated content using Remark[1].

An alternative Sphinx-based, slide show effort is used in SoaS
Loader[2], but the product became over-weight in detail.

I am submitting, again, my concept of a gallery[3] by way of
conversation.

Apropos wiki gardening, are there any views on what else is wrong with
the wiki?

One serious problem is that using "Search" button indicates material
which may be obsolete but unmarked as such.

Regards,

Iain

[1] http://remarkjs.com
[2] http://soas-loader.readthedocs.org
[3] http://inkyfingers.github.io/gallery/


> Once https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs/pull/19 is merged,
> I'll ask systems@ to create two A records that point the sugarlabs.org
> domain to 192.30.252.153 and 192.30.252.154, per
> https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-an-apex-domain/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cheers
> Dave
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep


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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Sam P.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Dave, we already have a hosting solution for www-sugarlabs.  We don't need to 
put in the control of a third party (GitHub), it is working find as it is now.

Www-sugarlabs also hosts other special redirects for some application clients.  
Moving to github will break these, eg. Sugar-build.

On 13 April 2016 1:48:45 PM AEST, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>Hi Martin!
>
>On 12 April 2016 at 17:02, Martin Dengler 
>wrote:
>
>>
>> On 12 Apr 2016, at 14:45, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12 April 2016 at 15:38, Martin Dengler 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The point is that because it's a waste of work and nobody wants to
>do it,
>>
>>
>> Give me the keys and I'll do it.
>>
>>
>> You don't need keys. You need a wiki replacement. You need to do the
>work
>> to create a replacement for wiki.sl.o. Then the DNS can be changed.
>It's
>> super-easy to say "let's do it" and super-hard to actually do it. Put
>your
>> wiki where your mouth is :).
>>
>
>https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs is the replacement.
>
>Once https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs/pull/19 is merged, I'll
>ask
>systems@ to create two A records that point the sugarlabs.org domain to
>192.30.252.153 and 192.30.252.154, per
>https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-an-apex-domain/
>
>
>--
>Cheers
>Dave

- --
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

On 11 April 2016 at 17:40, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> What are the next steps for the Wiki Gardening Weekend location
>

Who would like to join myself, Walter and Bernie the weekend of May 14-15
in Boston? :)
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

On 11 April 2016 at 17:51, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Nikola/Lektor
>

It seems http://grow.io has great l16n, perhaps that could be used.
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Martin!

On 12 April 2016 at 17:02, Martin Dengler  wrote:

>
> On 12 Apr 2016, at 14:45, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
>
> On 12 April 2016 at 15:38, Martin Dengler 
> wrote:
>
>> The point is that because it's a waste of work and nobody wants to do it,
>
>
> Give me the keys and I'll do it.
>
>
> You don't need keys. You need a wiki replacement. You need to do the work
> to create a replacement for wiki.sl.o. Then the DNS can be changed.  It's
> super-easy to say "let's do it" and super-hard to actually do it. Put your
> wiki where your mouth is :).
>

https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs is the replacement.

Once https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs/pull/19 is merged, I'll ask
systems@ to create two A records that point the sugarlabs.org domain to
192.30.252.153 and 192.30.252.154, per
https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-an-apex-domain/


-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[James Cameron]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 09:35:31PM -0500, Sebastian Silva wrote:
> El 12/04/16 a las 11:36, Dave Crossland escribió:
> 
> One issue with this is that MediaWikiText is not Markdown. Then there
> are images, tables, etc.
> 
> Did you consider [1]http://pandoc.org ? :)
> 
> Yes. At the time I had a really slow link and it wanted to pull like 300mb of
> dependencies.
> It was overkill for my need which was migrating the pe.sugarlabs.org wiki from
> mediawiki, did it manually.

Which, by the way, looks very nice.  Well done.

-- 
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http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Sebastian Silva]

El 12/04/16 a las 11:36, Dave Crossland escribió:
>
> One issue with this is that MediaWikiText is not Markdown. Then there
> are images, tables, etc.
>
>
> Did you consider http://pandoc.org ? :)
Yes. At the time I had a really slow link and it wanted to pull like
300mb of dependencies.
It was overkill for my need which was migrating the pe.sugarlabs.org
wiki from mediawiki, did it manually.
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Martin Dengler]

> On 12 Apr 2016, at 14:45, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 12 April 2016 at 15:38, Martin Dengler  wrote:
>> The point is that because it's a waste of work and nobody wants to do it,
> 
> Give me the keys and I'll do it. 

You don't need keys. You need a wiki replacement. You need to do the work to 
create a replacement for wiki.sl.o. Then the DNS can be changed.  It's 
super-easy to say "let's do it" and super-hard to actually do it. Put your wiki 
where your mouth is :).

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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

On 12 April 2016 at 15:38, Martin Dengler  wrote:

> The point is that because it's a waste of work and nobody wants to do it,


Give me the keys and I'll do it.
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Martin Dengler]

> On 12 Apr 2016, at 11:36, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
>> On 12 April 2016 at 09:17, Sebastian Silva  wrote:
>> One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that, although we could do
>> better, the wiki and the mailing list are among the *things that work*.
> 
> Right, that's why I am focusing on reforming them :) 

Replacing is hardly reforming.

> Kindly, the wiki [is] stale.

Changing a wiki with "click to edit" to a different system with a "click to 
edit" function will not make it less stale.

>> Frederick Grose has been on top of the Mediawiki from the web-admin
>> point of view and is quite knowledgeable of it.
>> I'm afraid a longer different-to-wikipedia process might be a chore to
>> set up with little return of investment.
>  I'm advocating for [changing from mediawiki to something else].

You don't seem to have anyone to actually do the work to even set up a credible 
alternative yet. Why don't you do that first and migrate part of the content, 
then advocate for switching?

>> El 12/04/16 a las 07:58, Dave Crossland escribió:
>> >
>> > +1
>> >
>> > Who will set this up on the SL servers, and when? :)
>> 
>> As with all volunteer projects, those who do the work decide how (and
>> when) it's done. I don't think this is low hanging, or even fruit.
> 
> If no one wants to do it, I think Github Pages + Jeykll wins, because the 
> only systems administration effort is required is setting the DNS records. 

If noone wants to change things, we should change things?

The point is that because it's a waste of work and nobody wants to do it, it's 
not going to get done. Not dealing with that is just wasting emails.


> -- 
> Cheers
> Dave

Martin

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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

Hi!

On 12 April 2016 at 09:17, Sebastian Silva 
wrote:

> One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that, although we could do
> better, the wiki and the mailing list are among the *things that work*.
>

Right, that's why I am focusing on reforming them :)

Kindly, the wiki and the mailing lists are stale. They were set up many
years ago, and I think that if SL was being set up today it would be set up
differently.

I'm curious, what things do you think do not work?


> Frederick Grose has been on top of the Mediawiki from the web-admin
> point of view and is quite knowledgeable of it.
> I'm afraid a longer different-to-wikipedia process might be a chore to
> set up with little return of investment.
>

I don't suggest turning the wiki read-only until it is clear that it is no
longer being contributed to.

Like bugs.sl.o to github, https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs and
https://developer.sugarlabs.org already started the move from wiki to
markdown-on-github, and I'm advocating for completing it.


> El 12/04/16 a las 07:58, Dave Crossland escribió:
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Who will set this up on the SL servers, and when? :)
>
> As with all volunteer projects, those who do the work decide how (and
> when) it's done. I don't think this is low hanging, or even fruit.
>

If no one wants to do it, I think Github Pages + Jeykll wins, because the
only systems administration effort is required is setting the DNS records.

Who controls the DNS records?


> For what it's worth I wrote some tools some time ago to extract
> wikipages from MediaWiki into plain text structure:
> https://git.sugarlabs.org/somosazucar/spamblaster
>
> One issue with this is that MediaWikiText is not Markdown. Then there
> are images, tables, etc.
>

Did you consider http://pandoc.org ? :)

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Sebastian Silva]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that, although we could do
better, the wiki and the mailing list are among the *things that work*.

Frederick Grose has been on top of the Mediawiki from the web-admin
point of view and is quite knowledgeable of it.
I'm afraid a longer different-to-wikipedia process might be a chore to
set up with little return of investment.

El 12/04/16 a las 07:58, Dave Crossland escribió:
>
> +1
>
> Who will set this up on the SL servers, and when? :) 

As with all volunteer projects, those who do the work decide how (and
when) it's done. I don't think this is low hanging, or even fruit.

For what it's worth I wrote some tools some time ago to extract
wikipages from MediaWiki into plain text structure:
https://git.sugarlabs.org/somosazucar/spamblaster

One issue with this is that MediaWikiText is not Markdown. Then there
are images, tables, etc.

Regards,
Sebastian
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 11 April 2016 at 23:30, Sam P.  wrote:

> Hosting a static site is a non-issue.  We can easily do it on SL servers.
> We can even configure it to automatically rebuild on git update.
>
> I would not use github pages.  It does not yet support TLS, which is very
> important in this day and age.
>
> Don't let Jekyll limit you either.  I have not compared it to other
> solutions, especially not when making a wiki.  We can run anything on our
> servers.
>

Wow, okay cool! If we have among us the labor power to set up git hooks so
that changes made on a ssg source repo on github are reliably rebuilt
quickly, that would be ideal, I think.

However, if it would be a burden or unmaintained, then using a 3rd party
host that costs $0 and has those core features and is maintained would be
better, I think.

I'm not really qualified to make the call on which ssg is best for us. I
took a quick look and of the 2, I think I prefer tesla to lektor.

As long as the one chosen accepts markdown and something simply like liquid
or jinja2 for templates, I'm happy :)

Re: TLS, since it is a common problem, someone already fixed it,
https://github.com/isaacs/github/issues/156#issuecomment-193166403


> Could this project also merge the developer site back into the
> static-wiki?  Right now it feels very oddly separated.
>

+1

Who will set this up on the SL servers, and when? :)

-- 
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Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[James Cameron]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 01:30:00PM +1000, Sam P. wrote:
> Could this project also merge the developer site back into the
> static-wiki?  Right now it feels very oddly separated.

+1

It is also focused on sugar-build, not native package building,
doesn't cover Gtk activity development, and is infrequently updated.

I'm able to find time to update Wiki pages on development topics, but
the toolchain requirements for sugar-docs is a barrier I've yet to
climb.

-- 
James Cameron
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Sam P.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hi Dave,

Hosting a static site is a non-issue.  We can easily do it on SL servers.  We 
can even configure it to automatically rebuild on git update.

I would not use github pages.  It does not yet support TLS, which is very 
important in this day and age.

Don't let Jekyll limit you either.  I have not compared it to other solutions, 
especially not when making a wiki.  We can run anything on our servers.

Could this project also merge the developer site back into the static-wiki?  
Right now it feels very oddly separated.

Thanks,
Sam

On 12 April 2016 7:51:12 AM AEST, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>Hi Sebastian!
>
>In the "Seeking insights into Oversight_Board/Decisions" thread you
>said,
>
>On 11 April 2016 at 14:57, Sebastian Silva 
> wrote:
>
>> El 11/04/16 a las 13:56, Walter Bender escribió:
>>
>>
>>> Generally I think all mediawiki instances should be retired and
>replaced
>>> with a static site generator backed by a distributed version control
>"pull
>>> request" model of collaboration.
>>>
>>> http://designwithfontforge.com has semi-prominent "edit this page"
>(that
>>> could be even more prominent) and Github itself and 3rd party web
>editors
>>> like http://prose.io provide the "wiki" experience of editing pages
>>> directly, but with the PR permissions model that - IMHO - cultivates
>more
>>> quality.
>>>
>> Mediawiki has been an administration burden from infrastructure team
>and
>> Local Labs as well.
>>
>> +1 on static site generators. Last year we replaced Wordpress for
>Nikola
>> at somosazucar.org. Lektor is also interesting. Both are small enough
>to
>> fit into a Sugar Activity for offline scenarios :-)
>
>
>Both are pure python too. Cool :)
>
>I propose using https://pages.github.com for hosting the site, and thus
>the
>Jeykll static site generator (writte in ruby)
>
>If Nikola/Lektor/anything-else is used as the static site generator,
>the
>site source can be hosted on github, and travis can be used to run the
>SSG
>and upload the build to a server via SFTP or git or similar (in a
>secure
>way.)
>
>Here are some explanations:
>
>https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/deployment/custom/
>
>https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/uploading-artifacts/
>
>How to decide hosting sites on pages.github.com or elsewhere?
>
>Cheers
>Dave
>
>
>
>
>___
>IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

- --
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Sebastian!

In the "Seeking insights into Oversight_Board/Decisions" thread you said,

On 11 April 2016 at 14:57, Sebastian Silva 
 wrote:

> El 11/04/16 a las 13:56, Walter Bender escribió:
>
>
>> Generally I think all mediawiki instances should be retired and replaced
>> with a static site generator backed by a distributed version control "pull
>> request" model of collaboration.
>>
>> http://designwithfontforge.com has semi-prominent "edit this page" (that
>> could be even more prominent) and Github itself and 3rd party web editors
>> like http://prose.io provide the "wiki" experience of editing pages
>> directly, but with the PR permissions model that - IMHO - cultivates more
>> quality.
>>
> Mediawiki has been an administration burden from infrastructure team and
> Local Labs as well.
>
> +1 on static site generators. Last year we replaced Wordpress for Nikola
> at somosazucar.org. Lektor is also interesting. Both are small enough to
> fit into a Sugar Activity for offline scenarios :-)


Both are pure python too. Cool :)

I propose using https://pages.github.com for hosting the site, and thus the
Jeykll static site generator (writte in ruby)

If Nikola/Lektor/anything-else is used as the static site generator, the
site source can be hosted on github, and travis can be used to run the SSG
and upload the build to a server via SFTP or git or similar (in a secure
way.)

Here are some explanations:

https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/deployment/custom/

https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/uploading-artifacts/

How to decide hosting sites on pages.github.com or elsewhere?

Cheers
Dave
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[IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Walter!

In the "Seeking insights into Oversight_Board/Decisions" thread you said,

On 11 April 2016 at 14:56, Walter Bender  wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
>>
>> On 11 April 2016 at 14:32, Adam Holt  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You are thorough enough to consider the fiduciary/stewardship secretary
>>> role outlined below, and/or coaching/mentoring someone younger to assist
>>> you -- would you consider giving back in this way?
>>>
>>
>> Sort of: I don't want to take on any responsibility, but you can trust me
>> to make unsolicited recommendations to everyone ;)
>>
>>
>>> (SFConservancy.org has not yet replied to us explaining how a/our
>>> nonprofit's bylaws should be published, but certainly
>>> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Governance and
>>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Decisions will need to
>>> hang together to build institutional memory without an excess of
>>> contradictions, and we could certainly use your outsider comparative
>>> perspective here if so!)
>>>
>>
>> mediawiki has a 'lock' feature to allow certain pages to only be edited
>> by certain users. We should use it for such 'serious' pages.
>>
>> Generally I think all mediawiki instances should be retired and replaced
>> with a static site generator backed by a distributed version control "pull
>> request" model of collaboration.
>>
>> http://designwithfontforge.com has semi-prominent "edit this page" (that
>> could be even more prominent) and Github itself and 3rd party web editors
>> like http://prose.io provide the "wiki" experience of editing pages
>> directly, but with the PR permissions model that - IMHO - cultivates more
>> quality.
>>
>
> Something to discuss before the Wiki Gardening weekend. We do have some
> community members who do a decent job of tending to the day-to-day needs of
> the wiki, but it has lacked an Olmstead for some time. Maybe we just pull
> the best of the wiki into a static site?
>

Yes, I recommend it - because a 'static site' backed by git _is_ a kind of
wiki when there is an 'edit this page' button.

What are the next steps for the Wiki Gardening Weekend location, and what
else ought to be discussed in the next 5 weeks?

Cheers
Dave
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