Re: Advertising on IBM-MAIN (Was: IBM PR: PCI Security Compliance Workshop in...
In a message dated 6/5/2008 7:01:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am in favor of the free exchange of information. The vendors who post here learn, very quickly, what the majority deem acceptable. Even in Darren's absence, the list does occasionally police itself. :-) >> Darren's still the list owner he just works for another company. So like others, instead of being a full time he gets it when he can. Also, my being semi-retired I can't throw a rock around the corner and get his attention. Lsoft catches most SPAM but depends on well tuned exits for maximum control. So without Darren's OoO and thread killer stuff we suffer a higher S/N ratio. Like other states higher education is suffering from economic shortfall and extra resources are hard to come by. UA's cut this year is 11%. It may be further compounded for the next few years. **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod000302) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Advertising on IBM-MAIN (Was: IBM PR: PCI Security Compliance Workshop in Maryland)
Ed, I was about to reply to the points you made and realized we have a fundamental disagreement about the nature and tone of Timothy's posts. I have *never* thought that his posts contained "border line" material. Not even close. Like Jim and Peter (and dozens of others from IBM), I believe Timothy's posts do add value. If he is guilty of marketing anything, it is ideas. He makes me think about business apps, multi-platform architecture, asset management and ways System z can play (in a big way) in these areas. Yes, there are other fora for pricing (LPAR=PRICING_L and ISVCOSTS to name two), but that never stopped us from talking about pricing here too. David Chase, like Marci before him *does* reply to pricing questions here and several other listservs. So does Al Sherkow. The number of subscribers here easily outnumbers those other listservs, so the discussion gets wider circulation. In the old days, we could afford to only talk bits and bytes here. No longer. > It sounds as if you're in favor of encouraging similar posts from all > mainframe vendors. Is that *really* the direction you would like to see > IBM-MAIN take? Be careful what you wish for. O:-) I am in favor of the free exchange of information. The vendors who post here learn, very quickly, what the majority deem acceptable. Even in Darren's absence, the list does occasionally police itself. :-) Timothy replied for himself in a post entitled "Re: Webcast next week: Migrating to z/OS V1.9" so I'll follow the rest of the discussion from there. Bob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Advertising on IBM-MAIN (Was: IBM PR: PCI Security Compliance Workshop in...
In a message dated 6/4/2008 2:22:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And speaking of advertising on IBM-MAIN, where did this come from in my last post? What odes AOL Food have to do with IBM mainframes? I didn't type it into my email. It <> **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (_http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod000302_ (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod000302) ) <> I just sent an email to myself and discovered the weird text in there, too. It seems that my AOL is generating it. It is not part of my auto-signature. How do I turn off this trash? I apologize for all the times I've inadvertently sent junk like that to IBM-MAIN. Does the NSA also inserted invisible messages in all emails now? Bill Fairchild Rocket Software **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod000302) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Advertising on IBM-MAIN (Was: IBM PR: PCI Security Compliance Workshop in...
In a message dated 6/4/2008 1:10:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >know that I advertise occasionally for the MCMG group that I go to in Chicago. I'm glad the Sam Knutson advertises for the group in DC area, and Mark Nelson advertises the New York Naspa chapter's group that is meeting in 2 weeks. And a score or more posters "advertise" and/or freely discuss each upcoming SHARE. Which makes me wonder now why I haven't seen any discussion of the annual national CMG meetings. A large % of their sessions revolve around IBM mainframe computers. Just wondering... Bill Fairchild Rocket Software **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod000302) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Advertising on IBM-MAIN (Was: IBM PR: PCI Security Compliance Workshop in Maryland)
Richards, Robert B. wrote: I guess I am confused. *Most* of the time, we like it when IBMers post what they know or think we should know. Is that now considered advertising? :-( Timothy is one of the few IBM Software Architects posting to this forum. I, personally, have always found his posts to be informative, relevant and generally *without* personal bias. When he does show bias, he generally prefaces his comments. He is a major advocate for System z and a frequent blogger to www.mainframe.typepad.com . The "IBM" in "IBM-MAIN" does not imply any special relationship with, or preferential treatment of, list participants who happen to be IBM employees. It means simply that the discussion centers around topics relating to IBM Mainframes. And, since I started contributing to this list nearly 15 years ago, it has been primarily a technical discussion. Of course, we all value the participation by IBM software developers and architects. Without them, a lot of questions about IBM software would go unanswered ... or answered incorrectly! Recent posts -- just this week -- from the esteemed Jim Mulder and Peter Relson have provided invaluable information. But, I have *never* heard either of those gentlemen quote prices or forward announcement material of any kind to the list. About your question, "Does a software vendor, offering a "free" workshop to discuss problems for which they provide priced "solutions" constitute advertising?" Perhaps, but as you astutely pointed out, you would attend some of them as follows" "it would be with eyes wide open. TANSTAAFL! ;-)" Marketing announcements and the like have their own channels -- and plenty of Internet bandwidth. If such postings were commonplace on this forum, I suspect there would be no eyebrows raised. But, such postings are fairly rare here -- which explains why Mr. Fogg was confused about the rationale for Mr. Sipples post. He appears to be a primary contributor of this kind of ... shall we say ... "border line" material. It sounds as if you're in favor of encouraging similar posts from all mainframe vendors. Is that *really* the direction you would like to see IBM-MAIN take? Be careful what you wish for. O:-) I'm not necessarily taking a position either way. So far, I'm just asking questions. I get plenty of "stuff" in my InBox and SPAM folders every day -- most of which I promptly delete. Obviously, I'll go along with whatever the group consensus is regarding vendor pricing and announcement material on IBM-MAIN. I can delete that fairly easily too. I did ask about an IBM-MAIN "Charter" or "Canons of Conduct". Do such documents exist? Are there any guidelines you receive when you first subscribe to the list? I remember when Darren was active as list owner, even job postings had to be sanctioned. Are they still restricted? What are the rules??! -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Advertising on IBM-MAIN (Was: IBM PR: PCI Security Compliance Workshop in Maryland)
Quite honestly, there is nothing free about PCI. Requirements for PCI compliance are not free. Doesn't matter if you try to do it all yourself or have people come in to help. There is a definite cost. As to the class, it is just about Communication Server aspects. Seems like a good idea. Especially, if you haven't had the time to delve into all the new stuff in Communication Server and you have PCI requirements. It's not like they are selling you Communication Server. It's already running. Might as well be efficient with your company's money and turn on the things that are helpful instead of having some other unix/windows group suggest a solution that is 1) non-mainframe 2) going to cost $$$ in people and software. I went to a 2 day free class on LDAP/Firewall stuff more than a few years ago.. I found it very helpful at the time. Rob Schramm Sirius Computer Solutions -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Advertising on IBM-MAIN (Was: IBM PR: PCI Security Compliance Workshop in Maryland)
Ed, I'm not quite sure just what you're saying. Personally, I like most of Timothy Sipples' posts. I'm aware that he is an IBM employee, which is obvious from his Sig line and email address. He does bring out a viewpoint that is often contrary to what many IBM-Main posters have. I don't always agree with him, but most of what he says makes sense. I know that I advertise occasionally for the MCMG group that I go to in Chicago. I'm glad the Sam Knutson advertises for the group in DC area, and Mark Nelson advertises the New York Naspa chapter's group that is meeting in 2 weeks. As a matter of fact, I am planning on going to the NY meeting. I've noticed that of all the groups I've been to other than Share and the IBM z/OS Expo, they consistently have the best speakers and topics. And, its also free. I don't have a problem with people advertising things here - even products, as long as its not done too often. I think Steve Comstock used to advertise too much, but after several complaints, I think he does it about right now. I don't recall you ever advertising your company, but I wouldn't mind. I know there are a few people who are very vociferous about that, but I think the majority of posters welcome occasional advertisements, especially if it helps in answering a question on how to do something. Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Milwaukee, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 - Original Message - From: "Edward Jaffe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This isn't exactly a user group meeting that's being announced. And, consider the source... I get invitations all the time, from IBM and other software and hardware vendors, to attend "free" workshops. Some are events held at local area hotels -- lunch included. An increasing number are in the form of webcasts. But, AFAICT there is only one person (of the 5,000+ subscribers) that posts such invitations on IBM-MAIN. Does a software vendor, offering a "free" workshop to discuss problems for which they provide priced "solutions" constitute advertising? Regardless of what you call them, are such postings consistent with the overarching "spirit" of IBM-MAIN? What about these recent examples from the same poster -- some containing specific pricing information, FUD about competitors, etc? http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0806&L=ibm-main&P=R10900&I=1&X=- http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0806&L=ibm-main&P=R10803&I=1&X=- http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0805&L=ibm-main&P=R39688&I=1&X=- http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0805&L=ibm-main&P=R7657&I=1&X=- http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0804&L=ibm-main&P=R95816&I=1&X=- Does IBM-MAIN have a written charter? Anything resembling Canons of Conduct? A policy statement of some kind? Notwithstanding the comments above, I certainly don't mind being invited to these events. But, if and when I were to attend any of them, it would be with eyes wide open. TANSTAAFL! ;-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Advertising on IBM-MAIN (Was: IBM PR: PCI Security Compliance Workshop in Maryland)
Ed, I guess I am confused. *Most* of the time, we like it when IBMers post what they know or think we should know. Is that now considered advertising? :-( Timothy is one of the few IBM Software Architects posting to this forum. I, personally, have always found his posts to be informative, relevant and generally *without* personal bias. When he does show bias, he generally prefaces his comments. He is a major advocate for System z and a frequent blogger to www.mainframe.typepad.com . I saw no FUD in any of those posts you cited. Quite the contrary. I appreciated knowing that a major new workload was coming to System z (Cognos). While I prefer z/OS, any new workload for System z is good news. Having him explain RDz should have enlightened a few MVS folks. I did the very same thing at my last job to developers and MVS sysprogs alike. My CICS guy was the one that brought it to my attention. Multiplatform development is also good news for System z. I completely enjoyed his explanation of the new pricing announcements. I spent the last 5 years doing software asset management part-time and even I had a little trouble understanding *that* announcement. About your question, "Does a software vendor, offering a "free" workshop to discuss problems for which they provide priced "solutions" constitute advertising?" Perhaps, but as you astutely pointed out, you would attend some of them as follows" "it would be with eyes wide open. TANSTAAFL! ;-)" But there are times when you can get some *preliminary free education* about something you know nothing about, BEFORE you spend money getting good, targeted education. > Regardless of what you call them, are such postings consistent with the overarching "spirit" of IBM-MAIN? I believe they are. I do not believe that Timothy is attempting to hijack this forum for marketing purposes with his posts. Anyway, that's *my* opinion. :-) Bob - Robert B. Richards(Bob) US Office of Personnel Management 1900 E Street NW Room: BH04L Washington, D.C. 20415 Phone: (202) 606-1195 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Advertising on IBM-MAIN (Was: IBM PR: PCI Security Compliance Workshop in Maryland)
George Fogg wrote: I'm confused. Is this an advertisement on IBM-MAIN? George Fogg Richards, Robert B. wrote: I would say *NO*, it is not really an advertisement. It's more like a "FOR YOUR INFORMATION". Advertising generally expects some return on investment. Clearly stated, "There is no tuition fee for this workshop" sets the expectation that IBM is not doing this for educational revenue. This isn't exactly a user group meeting that's being announced. And, consider the source... I get invitations all the time, from IBM and other software and hardware vendors, to attend "free" workshops. Some are events held at local area hotels -- lunch included. An increasing number are in the form of webcasts. But, AFAICT there is only one person (of the 5,000+ subscribers) that posts such invitations on IBM-MAIN. Does a software vendor, offering a "free" workshop to discuss problems for which they provide priced "solutions" constitute advertising? Regardless of what you call them, are such postings consistent with the overarching "spirit" of IBM-MAIN? What about these recent examples from the same poster -- some containing specific pricing information, FUD about competitors, etc? http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0806&L=ibm-main&P=R10900&I=1&X=- http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0806&L=ibm-main&P=R10803&I=1&X=- http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0805&L=ibm-main&P=R39688&I=1&X=- http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0805&L=ibm-main&P=R7657&I=1&X=- http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0804&L=ibm-main&P=R95816&I=1&X=- Does IBM-MAIN have a written charter? Anything resembling Canons of Conduct? A policy statement of some kind? Notwithstanding the comments above, I certainly don't mind being invited to these events. But, if and when I were to attend any of them, it would be with eyes wide open. TANSTAAFL! ;-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
