Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Thank you everyone for your comments. They have been very helpful. I have also spent the last 4 nights crawling through the entire IBMMAIN archives looking for HMC system console related postings, and that was informative too (if a bit exhausting). Feel free to contact me if you have any further comments. Some of you have expressed concern about function going away; that was not the intent of these questions. W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Hi Kevin, option 3 - use HMC for IPL and NIP...nice to be on one screen. MVS messages on perviosly activated sysplex SMCS screen (usually) else HMC until SMCS available. I have removed NIP Consolesno hardware and that gets rid all those PINned devices. and no money to buy OSA-ICC devices.why bother. On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:01:36 -0500, W. Kevin Kelley wkkel...@optonline.net wrote: I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development Regards Bruce Hewson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
1. yes 2. never 3. yes, but are secondary devices, OSC-ICC devices are NIP -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Forgot about that one... our SADump build is coded with SYSC only. Art On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:08:11 -0500, Field, Alan C. alan.c.fi...@supervalu.com wrote: 1 - Not necessarily for emergencies. Use it for SAD, which could be considered an emergency :) ... Alan -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of W. Kevin Kelley Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 23:02 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Kevin Kelley Asked: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? -- Yes 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? -- Yes 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? -- Nope. Cheers,,,Steve Steven F. Conway, CISSP LA Systems z/OS Systems Support Phone: 703.295.1926 steve_con...@ao.uscourts.gov -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
On 3/28/2011 9:01 PM, W. Kevin Kelley wrote: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? 1) Never, but used for SADUMP.Never until recently... bringing up two new data centers for the first time and HMC console was used for initial IPLs while all the OSA-ICC definitions / cabling was being worked out. 2) Don't think we've ever needed to do that. 3) N/A. We use OSA-ICC and used 2074s prior to using ICC. Regards, Mark -- Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS mailto:m...@mzelden.com Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ *** Please note the new URL for Mark's MVS Utilities *** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
I will say we mirror what Barbara has stated, but that our IOC (operations) has a product called IO/Concepts that we funnel console traffic thru, otherwise IOC and Sysprogs use the HMC excessively for IPLs, not just in emergencies. Thanks Ms. Terri E. Shaffer terri.e.shaf...@jpmchase.com Engineer J.P.Morgan Chase Co. GTI DCT ECS Core Services zSoftware Group / Emerging Technologies Office: # 614-213-3467 Cell: # 412-519-2592 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara Nitz Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:11 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'll stay out of 2, but 1 and certainly 3 definitely apply to us. Since our office building is now quite a ways away from the actual hardware, us sysprogs routinely use the HMC both for IPL and to issue some commands. Also, we routinely swap lpars from one box to the other, meaning that 'the consoles' need to have their appropriate 3270 pcomm session (different IP address AFAIK) started. Until they're up, HMC is the only means of communication from here. The test sysplex doesn't have a console anymore. Well, there are some consoles defined for that, but those sessions are never open. So the only way to IPL is the HMC. One of them happens to be right here in our office. Regards, Barbara 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation of any transaction. All market prices, data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of JPMorgan Chase Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates. This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Although this transmission and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by JPMorgan Chase Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates, as applicable, for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. Please refer to http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures for disclosures relating to European legal entities. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? 1. Always 2. Have percom configured on the HMC to use OSa-OSC card consoles 3. No more NIP console since a while Bernard Coeytaux -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
We have done 1), we have no 2), we definitely do 3) - HMC (via the web) and SMCS are all we use (or have, for that matter). As a side note: we tried OSA consoles, but (at least at the time) they didn't handle SSL as we wanted, so we dropped them. We run VTAM/NET as SUB=MSTR, so the requirement isn't onerous. On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:01:36 -0500, W. Kevin Kelley wkkel...@optonline.net wrote: I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
1. last resort 2. never 3. we have no locally attached consoles, the nip console is via the osa advanced facility. All our consoles use a tn3270 client to the IP of the OSC channel. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Birdsall Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:53 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time) We have done 1), we have no 2), we definitely do 3) - HMC (via the web) and SMCS are all we use (or have, for that matter). As a side note: we tried OSA consoles, but (at least at the time) they didn't handle SSL as we wanted, so we dropped them. We run VTAM/NET as SUB=MSTR, so the requirement isn't onerous. On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:01:36 -0500, W. Kevin Kelley wkkel...@optonline.net wrote: I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Kevin, We normally use OSA ICC consoles but we have used the HMC console as a console of last resort to recover lost OSA ICC consoles. Cliff Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:05:23 -0500 From: wkkel...@optonline.net Subject: Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time) To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Wow! I am overwhelmed with the response so far. THANK YOU! For those of you that I haven't heard from, PLEASE POST -- this was not a casual query; decisions will be made on it. W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
On 3/29/2011 00:01, W. Kevin Kelley wrote: I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? 1) We have, more so with our sandbox or in D/R, but once in a blue moon in production. 2) We have, though I'm not certain how many times. 3) All of our images have only OSA-ICC attached consoles. We do not use SMCS nor any other solution with z/OS Comm Server requirements. I, too, wish z/OS would support the HMC's integrated 3270 interface as z/VM. Didn't the 4381 have an on-board coax card that could be used for attaching consoles? Sigh... life was so much simpler back then... ;) Art Gutowski Ford Motor Company -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
1 - Not necessarily for emergencies. Use it for SAD, which could be considered an emergency :) 2 - Not recently. We used it while setting up the OSA consoles originally. We've not had problems with OSA consoles recently. 3 - We use it when the locally attached console isn't quite so local, such as IPLing the sandbox from home. Alan -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of W. Kevin Kelley Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 23:02 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? Kevin, 1. Yes 2. No OSA attached consoles now (Visara, Escon attached), but have in the past 3. Used to use for the Test LPAR, but stole one of the Visara Prod consoles for Test now. I vote to keep this functionality. Steve -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
W. Kevin Kelley wrote: Wow! I am overwhelmed with the response so far. THANK YOU! For those of you that I haven't heard from, PLEASE POST -- this was not a casual query; decisions will be made on it. W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html I've used it as an emergency console, but only until my TP environment was established. At that point, we switched over to using SDSF to run the system until regular console service could be established. Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
1) yes 2) No OSA consoles 3) No - use Visara controllers for locally attached remotely accessible consoles. Jerry Whitteridge Design Engineer Safeway Inc. 925 951 4184 If you feel in control you just aren't going fast enough. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of W. Kevin Kelley Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 9:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Email Firewall made the following annotations. -- Warning: All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the corporate e-mail system, and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the recipient. This e-mail may contain proprietary information and is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that you have received this message in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. == -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
On 3/28/2011 9:01 PM, W. Kevin Kelley wrote: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? 1 and sorta-3. We have ESCON-attached DIDOCS consoles (via Visara controller), but our computer room is dark and we do nearly all of our IPLs remotely. Therefore, we don't define any NIP consoles to z/OS. BTW, we would *really* like it if the 3270 console on the remote HMC worked for z/OS like it does for z/VM. :-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
More than once, it has been the console of last resort. The last was several years ago, I don't recall using it for the z9. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of W. Kevin Kelley Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 9:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
W. Kevin Kelley pisze: I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? It happened in the past, but I strongly prefer to use regular console. Regular = 2074, OSA-ICC or 3174 with coax-attached hard terminals. HMC console lacks some funcionality. 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? Never, because I have redundant regular consoles. 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? I never used SMCS. For me it's completely useless feature, because it depends on VTAM. If I have VTAM up ready, then I possibly can have TSO active = access to SDSF EMCS console. My €0.02 -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 16.07.2010 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.248.328 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
options 1) and 3) apply at our site. We've never used SYSCONS to accomplish option 2). Walter Marguccio z/OS Systems Programmer BELENUS LOB Informatic GmbH Munich - Germany -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Kevin: Since switching to our new z10, we have only OSA attached consoles. We got rid of all the 3174s and green-screen consoles, which were very long in the tooth anyway. Operations really only uses the HMC to initiate an IPL, as the PCs in the operations area remain attached to specific OSA slots designating them as consoles and these addresses are also defined as NIP consoles. The z10 has been around less than a year so we haven't yet had to use the HMC as the console of last resort, although that day may yet come along. We have used it to recover OSA attached consoles in the last month when the PC group pushed some updates to the PCs in the operations area, forgetting that they were special (being used as consoles). Forcing a reboot caused them to lose their OSA connections. Fortunately, we had already set up a procedure for console recovery from the HMC that operations was able to follow. Mike Myers Pitt County Memorial Hospital On 03/29/2011 12:01 AM, W. Kevin Kelley wrote: I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Keep in mind that the HMCs on your SE LAN are may be ;-) an integral part of the BCPii connectivity between CECs. For a remote request, BCPii will tunnel through to the SE on the local CEC and if the BCPii request is not for this CEC then move to the HMC looking for a route to the SE for the remote CEC in question. The HMC has moved beyond just console/IPL support, but then you all knew that already, didn't you g I really like the OSA support for consoles and also the ability to easily get to the HMC via a web browser (of course with the proper firewall support and not directly on the SE LAN subnet). Back in a previous life it saved me a LOT of walking back and forth to the HMC console during test IPLs. Regards, Stan Stan Weyman Senior Software Engineer stan.wey...@emc.com EMC² (508)249-3966 where information lives It is wise to keep in mind that neither success nor failure is ever final... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of W. Kevin Kelley Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:02 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of W. Kevin Kelley Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 11:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? I have. Our normal consoles are controlled by an Visara. This is Escon attached to the z. It presents a 3174 type controller which can be EMIF'ed. It has two coax attached 3270 emulation PCs and is LAN attached to allow TN3270 access to both consoles and local 3270 VTAM controlled terminals. 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? No OSA consoles, but I have used it to recover the Visara consoles. 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? This is how I do it on my sandbox system. Also, we have no operators at all any more. So I even IPL from home using the HMC system console via the HMC's web interface. I have an IODF with no NIPCONS which I use when I do this. Others in my group prefer to drive into work and IPL from the actual HMC and using the Visara NIPCONS. I don't know why. W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development I do hope the PHBs aren't considering removing the support. I wish z/OS would support the HMC's integrated 3270 interface. z/VM does. Are you saying that the z/VM people are smarter than the z/OS people? slight dig -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
2 and 3. Especially during sand-box type operations of building a new system. Until JES is initialized and the log captured, it is extremely difficult to debug PARMLIB errors, etc -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
In one of our environments, for a long time (years), the HMC system console was our only console for most of the systems. We eventually implemented IIC because the HMC console was a pain to use and at the time not available to the sysprog folks. The specific environment consists of multi-image sysplexes running a single app (DB2 for mySAP), so the actual console interaction is minimal. Today this environment (and the other 'legacy' environment) uses redundant ICC. Some of our operators still seem to use the HMC console though. Probably because it's right there for them when they IPL (HMC is a short walk from their desk). Never used SMCS. Answers to your specific questions: 1 - We have 2 - Not that I can recall 3 - Used to apply to us, not any more. Bart -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of W. Kevin Kelley Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:02 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Until JES is initialized and the log captured, it is extremely difficult to debug PARMLIB errors, etc amen to that... Stan Weyman Senior Software Engineer stan.wey...@emc.com EMC² (508)249-3966 where information lives It is wise to keep in mind that neither success nor failure is ever final... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Staller, Allan Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:40 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time) 2 and 3. Especially during sand-box type operations of building a new system. Until JES is initialized and the log captured, it is extremely difficult to debug PARMLIB errors, etc -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
1. yes 2. We are using OSA-ICC support for we have tried to recover OSA consoles when we have problems. 3. No locally-attached console, all OSA-ICC. Brad Wissink Information Technology Services Iowa State University 515-294-3088 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of W. Kevin Kelley Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 11:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Answers embedded below. Matt -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of W. Kevin Kelley Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:02 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? Yeap, we have. 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? Not yet, but we have to in the future. 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? If management knew that could be done, they would use it as a cost savings measure and save some pennies on a console. W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 7:01 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: I do hope the PHBs aren't considering removing the support. I wish z/OS would support the HMC's integrated 3270 interface. z/VM does. Are you saying that the z/VM people are smarter than the z/OS people? slight dig Try adding a TN3270E device at UCB . That is what hercules did to use z/VM. They did have to define it as a SysG console, but that was a z/VM requirement. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Thank you for your e-mail. A representative of the zVM team will review your request and respond to you as soon as possible. Thanks again, zVM Team -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Mike, we are currently moving consoles to osa. I checked our HMC guide and did not see anything on console recovery. Could you provide some details or where I could find some information. Thanks Matt -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Mike Myers Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 7:53 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time) Kevin: Since switching to our new z10, we have only OSA attached consoles. We got rid of all the 3174s and green-screen consoles, which were very long in the tooth anyway. Operations really only uses the HMC to initiate an IPL, as the PCs in the operations area remain attached to specific OSA slots designating them as consoles and these addresses are also defined as NIP consoles. The z10 has been around less than a year so we haven't yet had to use the HMC as the console of last resort, although that day may yet come along. We have used it to recover OSA attached consoles in the last month when the PC group pushed some updates to the PCs in the operations area, forgetting that they were special (being used as consoles). Forcing a reboot caused them to lose their OSA connections. Fortunately, we had already set up a procedure for console recovery from the HMC that operations was able to follow. Mike Myers Pitt County Memorial Hospital On 03/29/2011 12:01 AM, W. Kevin Kelley wrote: I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
1 Yes 2 Yes but if I have a running system I'll do it from there or through SDSF 3 OSA-ICC only -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of W. Kevin Kelley Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:02 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: [IBM-MAIN] HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Kevin, 1 and 2 for me, not 3. Regards, Tom Conley W. Kevin Kelley wkkel...@optonline.net wrote in message news:listserv%201103282301362978.0...@bama.ua.edu... I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
1 - Yes. 2 - Yes. 3 - We don't have any consoles defined in the IOCDS/IODF for NIP processing. All NIP stuff is done via the HMC System Console. For one, we'd like to see the HMC console operate more like the regular consoles. For example, not all WTOR's appear. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of W. Kevin Kelley Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 11:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? Yes we did 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? NO we have not. And I hope we won't. 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? NO we have local consoles defined Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
On 3/28/2011 11:03 PM, W. Kevin Kelley wrote: I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? 1) Have not had to use it in a long time, but it is good to have a fall back. 2) Have consoles split across two OSA ICCs on a private network. Have not lost both OSA's or the network yet, but could happen. -- Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Wow! I am overwhelmed with the response so far. THANK YOU! For those of you that I haven't heard from, PLEASE POST -- this was not a casual query; decisions will be made on it. W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
On 3/29/2011 00:01, W. Kevin Kelley wrote: I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html 1). Yes. z/VM and z/OS 2). Yes. 3). No. Regards, Doug -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of W. Kevin Kelley I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. No -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
HMC System Console usage (one more time)
I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
I'll stay out of 2, but 1 and certainly 3 definitely apply to us. Since our office building is now quite a ways away from the actual hardware, us sysprogs routinely use the HMC both for IPL and to issue some commands. Also, we routinely swap lpars from one box to the other, meaning that 'the consoles' need to have their appropriate 3270 pcomm session (different IP address AFAIK) started. Until they're up, HMC is the only means of communication from here. The test sysplex doesn't have a console anymore. Well, there are some consoles defined for that, but those sessions are never open. So the only way to IPL is the HMC. One of them happens to be right here in our office. Regards, Barbara 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HMC System Console usage (one more time)
Hi Kevin, My answers are embedded below. Thanks, Linda - Original Message - From: W. Kevin Kelley wkkel...@optonline.net To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 9:01:36 PM Subject: HMC System Console usage (one more time) I'm being asked one more time by TPTB to determine how the HMC System Console is actually being used by z/OS customers: 1) How many of you have used to it in an emergency as the console of last resort? Yes, we have. 2) How many of you have used it to recover OSA attached consoles? We don't have any OSA attached consoles 3) How many of you have no locally-attached consoles and use the System Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles (or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)? We run all 3270 console devices, all connected to channel attached 3174 controllers. We also run a dedicated, local non-SNA Omegamon console. W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
