Re: How many mainframes are there?
I missed both operations and applications programming. I was a field engineer when the division took over responsibility for maintenance of OS/360. They sent a couple hundred of us who scored well on the programmer's aptitude test to Poughkeepsie, where we spent six months learning assembler, JCL, utilities, dump reading, the hardware and software architecture of the 360 and OS/360 (PCP). Afterwards, we were assigned to several different system programming groups in the Poughkeepsie lab for the remainder of our 2 years there. At the end, we were to return to the field as Program Support Reps (PSRs). Instead, I stayed in Poughkeepsie as an instructor at the Field Engineering education center where I taught OS/360. BDAM and ISAM internals for the next 3 years. I then moved back to the lab just in time to join the MVS design team (1971). There were others I recall who took similar paths from FE to sysprogs, some of whom were also involved in MVS design or development for its first release. Mike Myers Mentor Services Corporation On 4/12/2010 10:40 AM, Greg Shirey wrote: An instructor from Verhoef made the observation in a class I attended that he had never met a mainframe systems programmer whose first job was as a systems programmer, and his students invariably would say that they were invited to become a systems programmer. So, he always said Welcome to the club when someone in his class would admit that they'd just begun as a systems programmer. Greg Shirey Ben E. Keith Co. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jim Marshall Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 6:34 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How many mainframes are there? If you want to consider this a club, then no one admits you. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
I think a good many of us went down similar paths, starting out in operations, moving into applications programming, and eventually getting into systems programming. Bill Janulin Mgr Tech Support Product Dev. ASPG, Inc. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Pace Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 10:50 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How many mainframes are there? I never thought of that. But it was my case. I started as a programmer. Refused to use COBOL when Assembler would do the job and was asked if I wanted to join the Systems programming group. After that I never wanted to do anything except systems programming. On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Greg Shirey wgshi...@benekeith.comwrote: An instructor from Verhoef made the observation in a class I attended that he had never met a mainframe systems programmer whose first job was as a systems programmer, and his students invariably would say that they were invited to become a systems programmer. So, he always said Welcome to the club when someone in his class would admit that they'd just begun as a systems programmer. Greg Shirey Ben E. Keith Co. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jim Marshall Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 6:34 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How many mainframes are there? If you want to consider this a club, then no one admits you. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems 1700 Summit Lake Drive Tallahassee, FL. 32317 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
Many of us skipped the applications sidetrack and just went straight from Ops to Sysprog. William Janulin william.janu...@aspg.com 4/14/2010 8:43 AM I think a good many of us went down similar paths, starting out in operations, moving into applications programming, and eventually getting into systems programming. Bill Janulin Mgr Tech Support Product Dev. ASPG, Inc. CONFIDENTIALITY/EMAIL NOTICE: The material in this transmission contains confidential and privileged information intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this material in error and that any forwarding, copying, printing, distribution, use or disclosure of the material is strictly prohibited. If you have received this material in error, please (i) do not read it, (ii) reply to the sender that you received the message in error, and (iii) erase or destroy the material. Emails are not secure and can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well. scott.r...@joann.com (Scott Rowe) writes: Many of us skipped the applications sidetrack and just went straight from Ops to Sysprog. I took a intro to fortran class and sat in on 360 assembler class (class projects ran on simulator on 709). I was then hired for summer job to port 1401 MPIO to 360/30. As part of migrating the univ. 709/1401 lashup to 360/67 ... the univ. had replaced 1401 with 360/30. While the 360/30 had 1401 hardware emulation and run MPIO directly (did unitrecord-tape front end for 709 that ran ibsys tape-to-tape) ... I guess I was hired as part of gaining experience in 360. I got to design my own monitor, storage management, dispatcher, device drivers, error recovery, interrupt handlers, console interface, etc. When 360/67 came in, tss/360 wasn't running all that well ... so the univ pretty much stuck to os/360 (going thru pcp, mft, mvt cycle). They pretty early made me responsible for os/360 ... and I got to do a lot of work redoing various parts of os/360. Univ. even sent me to SHARE meetings to make presentations on some of the work. in jan68, ibm brought in three people from the science center to install cp67 ... and I got to play with that also (mostly on weekends). part of presentation I made at aug68 share in boston, on both os/360 and cp67 rewrites http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#18 when rewritting part of cp67 terminal interface to support tty/ascii terminals ... I tried to make the 2702 controller do something it couldn't quite do. This was somewhat the motivation for univ. to have clone controller project built on interdata/3, reverse engineer 360 channel interface, build channel interface board for interdata/3, etc. Four of us got written up ... being blamed for clone controller business. some past posts http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#360pcm the clone controller business was then major motivation for the corporation starting Future System effort (failed w/o ever being announced) ... some past posts http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys old reference to fergus morris book http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#33 IBM's VM for the PC c.1984?? that claims that the focus on FS neglecting 370 allowd processor clones to gain market foothold ... and the old culture under Watson Snr and Jr of free and vigourous debate was replaced with sycophancy and 'make no waves' under Opel and Akers I possibly did one of my non career enhancing moves ... by continuing to work on 370 all during the FS days ... and drawing comparisons between what was going on in FS and a cult film that was playing down in central sq. I was also making reference to having running 370 code that was better than what some of the FS specs was trying to do. People were being told that if they wanted promotions and raises ... they needed to take a transfer to FS. Another Boyd To Be Or To Do moment (I had sponsored Boyd's briefings at IBM): http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#35 War, Chaos, Business -- 42yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
In 45d79eacefba9b428e3d400e924d36b903534...@iwdubcormsg007.sci.local, on 04/12/2010 at 09:47 AM, Thompson, Steve steve_thomp...@stercomm.com said: Are you referring to just IBM type mainframes, or do you wish to include UNISYS, and Honeywell (the ones that I remember and think are still manufacturing)? AFAIK Unisys still markets on Burroughs line and one Univac line. Honeywell sold its GE lin to B.U.L.L a long time ago, and AFAIK the still market systems based on the GE 600 series. I believe that the other GE[1], Honeywell[2] and UNIVAC[3] lines are dead. [1] E.g., 435. [2] E.g., H-200, H-800 [3] E.g., 490. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
Our Windows and Network Brethren are still in the Chaos stage. But have to admit, Windows is finally getting some order (so they say); like being upward compatible. LOL IMO, Windows has never heard of upward compatability. I have the scars from my home PC to prove it. JAVA seems to have taken this to the extreme. Does Write Once, Debug Everywhere ring a bell. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Lindy Mayfield Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 9:11 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: How many mainframes are there? Just curious how many mainframes are in the world. And also how many mainf= rame people (sysprogs, developers, etc). I just wanted to know how exclusive a club am I in. Then of course I have = to decide if I want to belong to a club that would have me a member. Hopin= g it doesn't get to that. SNIP Are you referring to just IBM type mainframes, or do you wish to include UNISYS, and Honeywell (the ones that I remember and think are still manufacturing)? As to IBM mainframes, do you want to know how many are still under IBM service, or are running naked? In the latter case, I don't think IBM knows how many of those are out there -- until they need to get an upgrade. Regards, Steve Thompson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
do you want to know how many are still under IBM service, or are running naked? i have not run naked since 1974 - wow - was i on a streak back then . Chris Hoelscher IDMS/DB2 Database Architect Humana Inc 502-476-2538 choelsc...@humana.com you only need to test the programs that you want to work correctly The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain CONFIDENTIAL material. If you receive this material/information in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy the material/information. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Staller, Allan allan.stal...@kbm1.comwrote: IMO, Windows has never heard of upward compatability. I have the scars from my home PC to prove it. Indeed. I've seen keyboard shortcuts changed by service packs -- talk about random! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
An instructor from Verhoef made the observation in a class I attended that he had never met a mainframe systems programmer whose first job was as a systems programmer, and his students invariably would say that they were invited to become a systems programmer. So, he always said Welcome to the club when someone in his class would admit that they'd just begun as a systems programmer. Greg Shirey Ben E. Keith Co. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jim Marshall Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 6:34 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How many mainframes are there? If you want to consider this a club, then no one admits you. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
I never thought of that. But it was my case. I started as a programmer. Refused to use COBOL when Assembler would do the job and was asked if I wanted to join the Systems programming group. After that I never wanted to do anything except systems programming. On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Greg Shirey wgshi...@benekeith.comwrote: An instructor from Verhoef made the observation in a class I attended that he had never met a mainframe systems programmer whose first job was as a systems programmer, and his students invariably would say that they were invited to become a systems programmer. So, he always said Welcome to the club when someone in his class would admit that they'd just begun as a systems programmer. Greg Shirey Ben E. Keith Co. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jim Marshall Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 6:34 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How many mainframes are there? If you want to consider this a club, then no one admits you. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems 1700 Summit Lake Drive Tallahassee, FL. 32317 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
On 12 Apr 2010 05:57:51 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Our Windows and Network Brethren are still in the Chaos stage. But have to admit, Windows is finally getting some order (so they say); like being upward compatible. LOL IMO, Windows has never heard of upward compatability. I have the scars from my home PC to prove it. JAVA seems to have taken this to the extreme. Does Write Once, Debug Everywhere ring a bell. While I am still going through the joys of replacing an XP computer with a powerful documentation-free ACER computer (quad core with hyperthreading, terabyte hard drive, Blue Ray reader and 4 USB ports on the top with 1 or 2 E-sata ports in back), most of the applications have reinstalled with little or no problem. Quicken 2006 won't print reports because of a missing PDF driver but otherwise is OK. Upward compatibility seems decent. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
In a message dated 4/12/2010 12:31:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca writes: have reinstalled with little or no problem. Quicken 2006 won't print reports because of a missing PDF driver but otherwise is OK. Upward compatibility seems decent. Only had to format hard drive 3 times for Windows 7 on HP G70 laptop. Just yummy...and still slower than molasses. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
On 12 Apr 2010 07:40:55 -0700, wgshi...@benekeith.com (Greg Shirey) wrote: An instructor from Verhoef made the observation in a class I attended that he had never met a mainframe systems programmer whose first job was as a systems programmer, and his students invariably would say that they were invited to become a systems programmer. So, he always said Welcome to the club when someone in his class would admit that they'd just begun as a systems programmer. I remember when all of the applications programmers started off elsewhere.Then schools started offering programming courses, and people without experience applied based upon their education. How common has it been to get a college education in systems programming? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 2:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How many mainframes are there? On 12 Apr 2010 07:40:55 -0700, wgshi...@benekeith.com (Greg Shirey) wrote: An instructor from Verhoef made the observation in a class I attended that he had never met a mainframe systems programmer whose first job was as a systems programmer, and his students invariably would say that they were invited to become a systems programmer. So, he always said Welcome to the club when someone in his class would admit that they'd just begun as a systems programmer. I remember when all of the applications programmers started off elsewhere.Then schools started offering programming courses, and people without experience applied based upon their education. How common has it been to get a college education in systems programming? My first job out of college was as a OS/VS1 sysprog (trainee) at the City Of Ft. Worth, TX. My qualifications was a decent knowledge of S/370 assembler and OS JCL. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
My first job out of college was as a systems programmer. When I was hired, the group consisted of 8 sysprogs, and of them at least 2 had been hired straight out college as sysprogs. Also, during my tenure, we hired 2 other college grads as sysprogs. 4 of the five of us all went to the same college, which did teach a lot of systems level information. === Wayne Driscoll OMEGAMON DB2 L3 Support/Development wdrisco(AT)us.ibm.com === From: Howard Brazee howard.bra...@cusys.edu To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: 04/12/2010 02:23 PM Subject: Re: How many mainframes are there? Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu On 12 Apr 2010 07:40:55 -0700, wgshi...@benekeith.com (Greg Shirey) wrote: An instructor from Verhoef made the observation in a class I attended that he had never met a mainframe systems programmer whose first job was as a systems programmer, and his students invariably would say that they were invited to become a systems programmer. So, he always said Welcome to the club when someone in his class would admit that they'd just begun as a systems programmer. I remember when all of the applications programmers started off elsewhere.Then schools started offering programming courses, and people without experience applied based upon their education. How common has it been to get a college education in systems programming? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
I just wanted to know how exclusive a club am I in. Then of course I have to decide if I want to belong to a club that would have me a member. Hoping it doesn't get to that. Never looked at IBM Mainframes as a club. Long ago the kind of people who were attracted to Mainframes were ones enjoyed puzzles, worked hard, played even harder and over time made order from Chaos. Our Windows and Network Brethren are still in the Chaos stage. But have to admit, Windows is finally getting some order (so they say); like being upward compatible. Most of the really good SYSPROGs have this independent trait and make magic happen no matter what. If you want to consider this a club, then no one admits you. One just tags along, learns from others mistakes and contributes if you have something to say. Learning from others experiences has been one of the most career advancing things to come from the CLUB. Things like this talk-list have made it easier and actually more distant. Back in the 20th Century if one had a problem you called up someone in the club who may or may not be able to help. But then the word spread and actually rather quickly. Many times in trying times a phone call came with nuggets of info from someone I never have heard was in the club. Then there was SHARE where you would show up at SKIDS (Cocktail party, free booze for 4K+ SYSPROGs) and if you asked a question, someone would find you and you bought them a free drink. So if you want to stay, COOL. My suggestion is to join many clubs besides a heads down SYSPROG. Branch out into other areas like maybe the financials of computing where we play quite well, Join the Linux Penguins and ever the VM'ers. Yep the VM'ers got more organized with z/VM and are quite nice people. Join the Windows Club. Does not hurt to know them for they will probably never know you. But that is OK for it will show them you are coming around in their eyes. Maybe you will stick around or not. It is definitely your choice and either way, have fun. jim -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
How many mainframes are there?
Just curious how many mainframes are in the world. And also how many mainframe people (sysprogs, developers, etc). I just wanted to know how exclusive a club am I in. Then of course I have to decide if I want to belong to a club that would have me a member. Hoping it doesn't get to that. )Lindy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Lindy Mayfield lindy.mayfi...@ssf.sas.com wrote: Just curious how many mainframes are in the world. And also how many mainframe people (sysprogs, developers, etc). Of course, IBM holds this closely. Best guess is on the order of 10,000 -- that is, it's more than 1,000 and fewer than 100,000. I suspect it's 10K+/- a few K, myself, but have nothing to prove that with, so take it with the largest grain of salt you can find. I just wanted to know how exclusive a club am I in. Then of course I have to decide if I want to belong to a club that would have me a member. Hoping it doesn't get to that. You could do worse... (SRJs, anyone?) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How many mainframes are there?
interesting question, Groucho, er, Lindy Chris Hoelscher IDMS/DB2 Database Architect Humana Inc 502-476-2538 choelsc...@humana.com you only need to test the programs that you want to work correctly From: Lindy Mayfield lindy.mayfi...@ssf.sas.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: 04/10/2010 10:11 PM Subject: [IBM-MAIN] How many mainframes are there? Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Just curious how many mainframes are in the world. And also how many mainframe people (sysprogs, developers, etc). I just wanted to know how exclusive a club am I in. Then of course I have to decide if I want to belong to a club that would have me a member. Hoping it doesn't get to that. )Lindy The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain CONFIDENTIAL material. If you receive this material/information in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy the material/information. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Semi-OT: Turkeys and MVS wasRe: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?(OT)
-- Having grown up in farm country, I can tell you that domestic turkeys are the absolute stupidest creatures on God's green Earth! You wouldn't believe it unless you saw it! The wild turkey is apparently a bird to be reckoned with. The turkey also was the symbol of the SHARE MVS project for many years. -- The wild turkey is indeed a very wily bird, as any hunter can tell you. Let's end this OT thread. ;-) Sorry I started it.. -- Rick -- Remember that if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
It has been awhile since someone has referenced the Mainframe site: http://mainframe.typepad.com/ Timothy Sipples has placed a nice post out there called How Many Mainframes Do You Need? It is worth the read, even for us old, crusty types who sometime forget we didn't always know everything! smile Bob - Robert B. Richards(Bob) US Office of Personnel Management 1900 E Street NW Room: BH04L Washington, D.C. 20415 Phone: (202) 606-1195 Email: robert.richa...@opm.gov mailto:robert.richa...@opm.gov - -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
Q: How many telephone poles does it take to reach the moon? A: One if it's long enough. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
Then there is the server world concept: How many chickens does it take to run your business. Daniel McLaughlin Z-Series Systems Programmer Information Communications Technology Crawford Company 4680 N. Royal Atlanta Tucker GA 30084 phone: 770-621-3256 fax: 770-621-3237 cell: 770-666-7969 email: daniel_mclaugh...@us.crawco.com web: www.crawfordandcompany.com Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 03/23/2009 07:17 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? -- Information from the mail header --- Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Poster: Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com Subject: Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? --- Q: How many telephone poles does it take to reach the moon? A: One if it's long enough. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Consider the environment before printing this message. This transmission is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are NOT authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication, its attachments or any part of them. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this communication from all computers. This communication does not form any contractual obligation on behalf of the sender, the sender's employer, or the employer's parent company, affiliates or subsidiaries. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Daniel McLaughlin Then there is the server world concept: How many chickens does it take to run your business. Turkeys might have more impact :-) -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
The more the better ... Unfortunately a shrinking pond is ultimately going to do none of us any good. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
The thrust of my z10 User Experience segment in Austin is that it's time to rethink the 'classic' mainframe configuration. Insistence on multiple CECs to provide 'adjacent' failover in case of planned or unplanned outages leads to chronic problems of load balancing. A single machine that (1) you can trust and (2) can be extensively reconfigured without a POR, immediately solves the balancing problems while still promising stellar availability. The z10 is such a machine. http://ew.share.org/client_files/callpapers/attach/SHARE_in_Austin/S2839SR192048.pdf . . JO.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com Richards, Robert B. Robert.Richards@ To OPM.GOV IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent by: IBM cc Mainframe Discussion List Subject ibm-m...@bama.ua How Many Mainframes Do You Need? .edu 03/23/2009 03:21 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua .edu It has been awhile since someone has referenced the Mainframe site: http://mainframe.typepad.com/ Timothy Sipples has placed a nice post out there called How Many Mainframes Do You Need? It is worth the read, even for us old, crusty types who sometime forget we didn't always know everything! smile Bob snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly! - Arthur Carlson, WKRP in Cincinnati sorry, but somebody had to say it. e.s. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 7:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? Turkeys might have more impact :-) -jc- The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?(OT)
Having grown up in farm country, I can tell you that domestic turkeys are the absolute stupidest creatures on God's green Earth! You wouldn't believe it unless you saw it! Schlueter, Edward wrote: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly! - Arthur Carlson, WKRP in Cincinnati sorry, but somebody had to say it. e.s. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 7:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? Turkeys might have more impact :-) -jc- The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Rick -- Remember that if you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Fw: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
(Forwarding an off-list response back to the List) Patrick makes a very good point about the impact on software licensing when moving from multiple CECs to a single large one. In our old configuration, we had two pairs of medium-sized CECs. Because of the work distribution, most software had to be licensed on every CEC. In our new configuration, most software is licensed only on the hefty z10. Next to that machine is a small one that *in no way* functions as a backup or failover for its big bro. My SHARE pitch does not use the term 'penalty box', but that's how we referred to the small CEC during our planning. Besides supplying a second set of ICF LPARs, the penalty box runs several key 'enterprise utility' products that need to run somewhere but not necessarily on the same CEC as data hosts: job scheduler, VTAM session manager, sysout manager, etc. These products tend to be expensive and MIPS-priced. They live very nicely on a small CEC, which can easily be sysplexed with LPARs on the big box. After all was said and done, we saved money with the new configuration without extracting any big concessions from software vendors. My point is that it's time to revisit long-held views about how to configure and manage your mainframe environment. Before the z10, we never seriously considered doing this. . . JO.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com - Forwarded by J O Skip Robinson/SCE/EIX on 03/23/2009 02:39 PM - Mullen, Patrick patrick.mul...@g wl.ca To jo.skip.robin...@sce.com 03/23/2009 08:43 cc AM Subject RE: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? Agreed, but sadly there are still some software vendors that charge for the entire machine even when their product only runs on an lpar consuming 2% of that machine. snip -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Skip Robinson Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 10:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? The thrust of my z10 User Experience segment in Austin is that it's time to rethink the 'classic' mainframe configuration. Insistence on multiple CECs to provide 'adjacent' failover in case of planned or unplanned outages leads to chronic problems of load balancing. A single machine that (1) you can trust and (2) can be extensively reconfigured without a POR, immediately solves the balancing problems while still promising stellar availability. The z10 is such a machine. http://ew.share.org/client_files/callpapers/attach/SHARE_in_Austin/S2839 SR192048.pdf -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Semi-OT: Turkeys and MVS wasRe: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?(OT)
On 23 Mar 2009 10:02:05 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Having grown up in farm country, I can tell you that domestic turkeys are the absolute stupidest creatures on God's green Earth! You wouldn't believe it unless you saw it! The wild turkey is apparently a bird to be reckoned with. The turkey also was the symbol of the SHARE MVS project for many years. Schlueter, Edward wrote: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly! - Arthur Carlson, WKRP in Cincinnati sorry, but somebody had to say it. e.s. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 7:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need? Turkeys might have more impact :-) -jc- The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: How Many Mainframes Do You Need?
Bob Richards writes: It has been awhile since someone has referenced the Mainframe site: http://mainframe.typepad.com/ Timothy Sipples has placed a nice post out there called How Many Mainframes Do You Need? It is worth the read, even for us old, crusty types who sometime forget we didn't always know everything! smile Thanks, Bob! I hope to encourage some new thinking with that post. You may also enjoy the embedded YouTube video. Shane writes: The more the better ... Unfortunately a shrinking pond is ultimately going to do none of us any good. Physical infrastructure parsimony is a very good thing. Keep in mind what's ultimately relevant and important: how broad and how deep the end-user value is of the system(s). Why wouldn't you want to deliver the same (or more) value to users if you can do it with fewer boxes? What, is there some contest I don't know about to see who can collect the most frame metal? :-) No, save some of the money, and spend some of the money on delivering more value to your users. More value includes things like better/more application development capabilities, business information intelligence, improved operations and systems management, removing remaining (and inconvenient) service interruptions, additional consolidation (from other server types), and so on. Do more with less is what managers always want and what mainframers can deliver better than anyone. I agree with other commenters that each new model -- now the z10 -- should challenge previous assumptions, including the how many? assumptions. For example, several analysts figured out that the System z10 BC is the consolidation platform for the rest of us (for those of us not big enough to justify an EC machine). I agree with that. In writing that post, I am coming from the perspective of chatting with certain customers who, for example, still think that they should run their compilers on a separate physical machine -- probably even separately backstopped with its own disaster recovery machine! -- because somehow the compiler could magically leap across an LPAR boundary and threaten their production workloads. Never mind the fact that those production workloads are often running within the context of a physical Parallel Sysplex -- and sometimes even a 3-machine Sysplex! Come on, isn't this the year 2009? :-) Anyway, perhaps it strikes you as odd for the IBM guy to say you don't need very many, but that's exactly what I'm saying. How many? It depends, but I offer some of the typical thought patterns in that blog post, at least to get you thinking. - - - - - Timothy Sipples Consulting Enterprise Software Architect IBM Japan, Ltd. e99...@jp.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
