Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
In !!aaayaih+nruo4exaufaxntnnphscxbiaegn0bx93zuzbl6lixlvwcl4ba...@gmail.com, on 07/23/2010 at 11:35 AM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com said: PCP - MFT - MVT - MVS... IBM sales was changing the name even when it was free Those weren't name changes; PCP, MFT and MVT were names of options within OS/360. You want old name changes, try OS/360-OS/VS or DOS/360-DOS/VS-DOS/VSE. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
In snt113-w2ee4931f166abc115310bc6...@phx.gbl, on 07/22/2010 at 03:53 PM, john gilmore john_w_gilm...@msn.com said: Why not PROP instead? Tradition, and there's more than one. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
In !!aaayaih+nruo4exaufaxntnnphscxbiaepsobmmnbc5iokofrquva9yba...@gmail.com, on 07/23/2010 at 12:00 PM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com said: Not in 1988. MVS/XA was available well before 1988. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
In 49d10073ebab7b4d9dc1fc75de2eb9fb121...@blr-m3-msg.wipro.com, on 07/23/2010 at 05:57 PM, - Tibish Mathew tibish.mat...@wipro.com said: Can someone please get my email-ID out of this mailing list ? Yes. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
I was testing software on MVS/XA in mid-1983. I think it was first available in 1Q 83. Bill Fairchild -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 5:55 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. MVS/XA was available well before 1988. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
In a30a9f528e618748a8ef5199e80c4a1c04cfc...@wkpp1infmb03.cbsh.com, on 07/23/2010 at 03:48 PM, Kelman, Tom thomas.kel...@commercebank.com said: I believe that the KICKS you're talking about is designed to run on Hercules an MVS/zOS emulator No, Hercules is not an MVS/zOS emulator; it is a simulator of a S/360 descended machine. If you want to run MVS on your machine then you still need a copy of MVS to run under Hercules. You may be thinking of one of the turnkey CD's, which contain complete pregenerated operating systems, but those are not Hercules, even if the Hercules project provides them. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Another way to pronounce the acronym as a single word is that often used by native Italians who have learned English as a second language. They, by default, will pronounce CICS as cheeks, or perhaps chicks. When I worked for Landmark Systems Corp., the original developer of TMON/CICS, I remember once sitting at a sidewalk café on the Via Veneta in Rome with a Landmark colleague, sipping on a whiskey, and joking with him about how we were monitoring chicks and their various subsystems as they strolled by. Bill Fairchild Rocket Software -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of zMan Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 8:45 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) The see-eye-see-ess vs. kicks pronunciation wars... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
I have also heard it called sissy. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 11:08 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) On 23 July 2010 23:07, Bob Woodside ibm...@woodsway.com wrote: the UK pronunciation. I used to hear see-eye-see-ess in Houston ages ago. But as others have pointed out, the phenomenon seems to defy regionalization within the US. There's also the not-yet-mentioned see-ah-see-ess... The monophthongal eye prevalent in the US South. (Where South is a concept more than a geography, of course, e.g. most of Florida not being in the South.) Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html == This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Bob, You left out the other in syllable in Kaliningrad. The easiest way to remember how to spell it correctly is to use either of the two words for it in the native languages of people that have ruled it - Калининград or Königsberg. :-) The Russian name, when transliterated into English, is Kaliningrad, and the German name means King's Mountain. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Woodside Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 2:00 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) ... the famous, um, bitch line running from Kalingrad (or Królewiec, if you prefer) to Odessa. (And yes, my hovercraft is full of eels.) Bob Woodside Woodsway Consulting, Inc. http://www.woodsway.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Reminds me of a conversation I had regarding the words used to make people smile when having their photograph taken. In the UK, we say Cheese, however, in Spain they say potatoes (Patatas), and in France they say Fromage ... ? .. :-) Bill Fairchild bi...@mainstar.com Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 26/07/2010 03:48 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) Another way to pronounce the acronym as a single word is that often used by native Italians who have learned English as a second language. They, by default, will pronounce CICS as cheeks, or perhaps chicks. When I worked for Landmark Systems Corp., the original developer of TMON/CICS, I remember once sitting at a sidewalk café on the Via Veneta in Rome with a Landmark colleague, sipping on a whiskey, and joking with him about how we were monitoring chicks and their various subsystems as they strolled by. Bill Fairchild Rocket Software -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of zMan Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 8:45 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) The see-eye-see-ess vs. kicks pronunciation wars... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html This e-mail message, including any attachments transmitted with it, is CONFIDENTIAL and may contain legally privileged information. This message is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and delete it from your system. Please visit our website to read the full disclaimer: http://www.euroclear.com/site/public/disclaimer -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Bill Fairchild pisze: Bob, You left out the other in syllable in Kaliningrad. The easiest way to remember how to spell it correctly is to use either of the two words for it in the native languages of people that have ruled it - Калининград or Königsberg. :-) The Russian name, when transliterated into English, is Kaliningrad, and the German name means King's Mountain. Just to complement this off-topic thread: Kaliningrad can be translated as City of Kalinin. Kalinin was Russian communist, Stalin's co-worker. Polish name was Królewiec or Królówgród, which is PARTIALLY similar to Koenigsberg (Król = Koenig = King) (Gród=town/city=Burg Berg). So German equivalent name should be (but it's NOT) KoeningsBURG. BTW: Immanuel Kant lived there. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2009 r. kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 118.763.528 złotych. W związku z realizacją warunkowego podwyższenia kapitału zakładowego, na podstawie uchwały XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchwały XVI NWZ z dnia 27 października 2008r., może ulec podwyższeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 zł. Akcje w podwyższonym kapitale zakładowym BRE Banku SA będą w całości opłacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
My German might be a bit rusty, but isn't Burg - Castle and Berg - Mountain ? R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 26/07/2010 05:23 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) Bill Fairchild pisze: Bob, You left out the other in syllable in Kaliningrad. The easiest way to remember how to spell it correctly is to use either of the two words for it in the native languages of people that have ruled it - Калининград or Königsberg. :-) The Russian name, when transliterated into English, is Kaliningrad, and the German name means King's Mountain. Just to complement this off-topic thread: Kaliningrad can be translated as City of Kalinin. Kalinin was Russian communist, Stalin's co-worker. Polish name was Królewiec or Królówgród, which is PARTIALLY similar to Koenigsberg (Król = Koenig = King) (Gród=town/city=Burg Berg). So German equivalent name should be (but it's NOT) KoeningsBURG. BTW: Immanuel Kant lived there. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2009 r. kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 118.763.528 złotych. W związku z realizacją warunkowego podwyższenia kapitału zakładowego, na podstawie uchwały XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchwały XVI NWZ z dnia 27 października 2008r., może ulec podwyższeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 zł. Akcje w podwyższonym kapitale zakładowym BRE Banku SA będą w całości opłacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html This e-mail message, including any attachments transmitted with it, is CONFIDENTIAL and may contain legally privileged information. This message is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and delete it from your system. Please visit our website to read the full disclaimer: http://www.euroclear.com/site/public/disclaimer
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
On Monday 26 July 2010 11:28, Peter Nuttall wrote: My German might be a bit rusty, but isn't Burg - Castle and Berg - Mountain ? Ganz richtig. Cheers, Bob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
On Monday 26 July 2010 10:17, Bill Fairchild wrote: Bob, You left out the other in syllable in Kaliningrad. Finger check in the banana problem algorithm. I probably should have just written Königsberg. Cheers, Bob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
On Monday 26 July 2010 11:23, R.S. wrote: Bill Fairchild pisze: The Russian name, when transliterated into English, is Kaliningrad, and the German name means King's Mountain. Just to complement this off-topic thread: OT, yes, but entertaining. Kaliningrad can be translated as City of Kalinin. Kalinin was Russian communist, Stalin's co-worker. Polish name was Królewiec or Królówgród, which is PARTIALLY similar to Koenigsberg (Król = Koenig = King) (Gród=town/city=Burg Berg). So German equivalent name should be (but it's NOT) KoeningsBURG. Actually, I believe the German name was a translation of the Latin name, Regiomontium. BTW: Immanuel Kant lived there. And he most likely called it Königsberg. Which leads me to wonder what was the etymology of the town's name in Old Prussian (which died out shortly before Kant's time). I find mention of 2 names, Twānkstathe and Kunnegsgarbs. The latter I take to be a variant of the King's Thing names, but I've no clue about the former. Of course, my knowledge of Baltic languages is even scarcer than my knowledge of Polish (non-existent) and Russian (nearly so). Cheers, Bob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
W dniu 2010-07-24 07:15, Ted MacNEIL pisze: Last kicks conference I went to, the Brits all said zed-oh-ess. Canadians do for the most part, too. In Poland we say KICKS and zed-oh-ess. I think in Europe people use KICKS. BTW: KICKS in polish is jargon name for futball shot that horribly misses the target (or squint). BTW2: We have no problem to pronounce Szczebrzeszyn or Chrzczonowice, but we very hardly distinguish differences in 'bitch', 'beach' and 'beech'. Or 'witch' and 'which'. That sometimes leads to funny stories. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2009 r. kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 118.763.528 złotych. W związku z realizacją warunkowego podwyższenia kapitału zakładowego, na podstawie uchwały XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchwały XVI NWZ z dnia 27 października 2008r., może ulec podwyższeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 zł. Akcje w podwyższonym kapitale zakładowym BRE Banku SA będą w całości opłacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
On 07/23/2010 10:07 PM, Bob Woodside wrote: On Friday 23 July 2010 11:52, zMan wrote: It's always appeared to me to be: Americans: see-eye-see-ess Others: kicks I think you might occasionally hear cheeks in Italy. :-) Among Americans, I think it depends on how much contact the staff of a particular shop have with European users of Cumbersome Initials Connoting Something. In particular those who've had contact with the CICS development team at Hursley Park seem most likely to adopt - and spread - the UK pronunciation. Most of the people I've worked with over the past 30 years in the Northeast have said kicks, but that's been in IBM or in an ISV with strong UK ties. I used to hear see-eye-see-ess in Houston ages ago. But as others have pointed out, the phenomenon seems to defy regionalization within the US. Cheers, Bob -- Bob Woodside Woodsway Consulting, Inc. http://www.woodsway.com I think you are absolutely right that it is based on your contacts and not just region. When we first started looking at CICS in late 1970's we went to CICS class (probably Dallas or Houston) where we were taught see-eye-see-ess. We exclusively used that convention for years until our Tech-CICS types began frequenting the CICS sessions at SHARE and later working directly with IBM Hursley. At that point they adopted the kicks convention, while some of us at our installation that don't work with CICS on a daily basis still prefer the initials. No doubt the frequency with which you have to say CICS in the course of a day is an influencing factor. -- Joel C. Ewing, Fort Smith, ARjcew...@acm.org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
On Saturday 24 July 2010 09:40, R.S. wrote: BTW: KICKS in polish is jargon name for futball shot that horribly misses the target (or squint). Well, I have heard a couple of criticisms of CICS that weren't too far removed. Not from me, mind you. BTW2: We have no problem to pronounce Szczebrzeszyn or Chrzczonowice, but we very hardly distinguish differences in 'bitch', 'beach' and 'beech'. Or 'witch' and 'which'. That sometimes leads to funny stories. I'm trying to imagine a Monty Python style sketch involving a pair of Indo-European specialists, one English and the other Polish, debating the philological significance of the famous, um, bitch line running from Kalingrad (or Królewiec, if you prefer) to Odessa. (And yes, my hovercraft is full of eels.) Cheers, Bob -- Bob Woodside Woodsway Consulting, Inc. http://www.woodsway.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
snip--- But it's still a Green Card isn't it? --unsnip--- :-) Hasn't been green in over thirty years! :-) Latest version is white and it's a 70-page booklet. Sorry to disappoint you. (Not really! :-) ) Isn't IBM nice? Being white when delivered, everybody can paint it the way he/she likes it most.. -- Peter Hunkeler Credit Suisse -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
But IBM i missing to deliver a set of coloured pencils with this booklet. Maybe we could open a request by IBM for this Alexander Riedel -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hunkeler Peter (KIUP 4) Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 8:29 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. snip--- But it's still a Green Card isn't it? --unsnip--- :-) Hasn't been green in over thirty years! :-) Latest version is white and it's a 70-page booklet. Sorry to disappoint you. (Not really! :-) ) Isn't IBM nice? Being white when delivered, everybody can paint it the way he/she likes it most.. -- Peter Hunkeler Credit Suisse -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
peter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com (Hunkeler Peter , KIUP 4) writes: Isn't IBM nice? Being white when delivered, everybody can paint it the way he/she likes it most.. i've done a qd conversion of the old (internal) greencard ios3270 file to html. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html i've tried to approximate the background of old fanfold greencard color ... currently i'm using #80c080 ... but it lacks the feel. i may have to resort to scanning an old greencard ... and snipping large blank section as background a little like background for Col John Boyd related info (aka I had sponsored Boyd's briefings at IBM): http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Hi, Can someone please get my email-ID out of this mailing list ? From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Anne Lynn Wheeler Sent: Fri 7/23/2010 5:53 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. peter.hunke...@credit-suisse.com (Hunkeler Peter , KIUP 4) writes: Isn't IBM nice? Being white when delivered, everybody can paint it the way he/she likes it most.. i've done a qd conversion of the old (internal) greencard ios3270 file to html. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html i've tried to approximate the background of old fanfold greencard color ... currently i'm using #80c080 ... but it lacks the feel. i may have to resort to scanning an old greencard ... and snipping large blank section as background a little like background for Col John Boyd related info (aka I had sponsored Boyd's briefings at IBM): http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of - Tibish Mathew Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. Hi, Can someone please get my email-ID out of this mailing list ? snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Can not people read? Every message gives a web site at the bottom for this sort of thing. What is wrong with today's youth? -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
snip--- But it's still a Green Card isn't it? --unsnip- :-) Hasn't been green in over thirty years! :-) Mine's still green. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
It's was already referred to as POPS when I started in 1968. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 12:51 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. Why not PROP instead? It has been called POPS at least since 1976, when I took my first assembler course. Why change a name everybody understands? IBM has done that over the years and confused everybody. Look at the recent posts regarding z, i, p, x, z (etc.) Series. - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
--Original Message-- From: Ken Porowski Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu ReplyTo: IBM Mainframe Discussion List Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. Sent: Jul 22, 2010 5:04 PM But it's still a Green Card isn't it? SNIPPAGE Aren't Green Cards purple now? zShields up Later, Steve Thompson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
PCP - MFT - MVT - MVS... IBM sales was changing the name even when it was free (i.e., bundled with the hardware). I guess you just can't keep a salesman from improving a name. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:56 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. john gilmore wrote: Why not PROP instead? You are a good PROPonent to PROPerly PROPose a good name change! ;-D but one standard term that was accurate and innocuous would certainly be useful. What standards? There are a lot of gripes on this very list about the big blue's products name changes... From ADSM to TSM RACF to Security Server MVS/XA - MVS/ESA - OS/390 - z/OS etc... (can't remember now what ... ) Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I was not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and kicks won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like CICS, runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:10 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D CICS used to be CICS, now it's TS. DB2 is UDB! - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Why use four syllables when one will do - that's effieciency! On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I was not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and kicks won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like CICS, runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:10 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D CICS used to be CICS, now it's TS. DB2 is UDB! - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
It's always appeared to me to be: Americans: see-eye-see-ess Others: kicks On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I was not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and kicks won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like CICS, runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:10 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D CICS used to be CICS, now it's TS. DB2 is UDB! - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Not in 1988. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Phoenix Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. Ted MacNEIL wrote: I even drew up a comic, in 1988 -- the dialogue was something like: Six to swap in, Mr Scott. Start I/O! Shouldn't that have been Start Subchannel??? -- | Jim Phoenix | Voice: (310) 338-0400 x316 | | Senior Software Developer| Fax: (310) 338-0801| | Phoenix Software International || | 831 Parkview Drive North | jimphoe...@phoenixsoftware.com | | El Segundo, CA 90245 | http://www.phoenixsoftware.com | Opinions expressed by this individual are not necessarily those of the Company. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Since before my hair was grey. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ken Porowski Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. But it's still a Green Card isn't it? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
This American has been calling it kicks for over 30 years. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of zMan Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 11:53 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) It's always appeared to me to be: Americans: see-eye-see-ess Others: kicks On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I was not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and kicks won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like CICS, runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:10 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D CICS used to be CICS, now it's TS. DB2 is UDB! - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! --- --- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
donb...@gmail.com (Don Williams) writes: PCP - MFT - MVT - MVS... IBM sales was changing the name even when it was pcp, mft/mft-ii, mvt were all sysgen options for os/360 (as opposed to dos/360) for 370 virtual memory there was DOS-DOS/VS; MFT-OS/VS1 and MVT-OS/VS2 (and cp67-vm37). initial OS/VS2 Release 1 was SVS ... basically MVT laid out in (single) 16mbyte virtual address space; with a little bit of logic to handle the virtual memory tables (paging, page faults) and initially CCWTRANS (borrowed from CP67) cobbled into EXCP to handle channel program translation (aka make a copy of the channel program, substituting real addresses for the virtual addresses). things then got a little confused with Future System effort interrupting 370 activity ... recent reference discussing some of the issues http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.htm OS/VS2 Release 2 was MVS and suppose to be just a temporary stepping stone to OS/VS2 Release 3 ... the Future System operating system. aka FS was going to completely replace 370 ... as different from 360/370 as 360 had been different from prior generations. Since FS was going to completely replace 370 ... the 370 product (hardware software) pipelines were allowed to go dry. When FS was finally killed, there was then mad rush to get stuff back into the 370 product pipelines ... like the 303x stuff ... recent reference to 3031 being 158, 3032 being 168, and 3033 was 168 wiring spec using faster chips http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#35 TSSO - Hardcoded Offsets - Etc misc. past posts mentioning future system http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys In parallel with the mad rush to get stuff pack into 370 product pipelines ... there were efforts to start work on compatible followon generations to 370. The high-end 370 compatible followon eventually was referred to as 811, for the nov78 date of the XA architecture documents. The low mid-range did the (different followon) E architecture. The E architecture begate VSE ... and the XA architecture begate MVS/XA. i've mentioned before that the POK favorite son operating system managed to convince corporate that it was necessary to kill the vm370 product, shutdown the vm370 development group (in burlington mall) and transfer all the people to POK (or otherwise they would miss their FCS schedule). Endicott managed to save the 370 product mission but essentially had to reconstitute a development group from scratch. -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
On 23 Jul 2010 08:52:54 -0700, zedgarhoo...@gmail.com (zMan) wrote: It's always appeared to me to be: Americans: see-eye-see-ess Others: kicks My brother said kicks. I don't know where he got that, he lived in California. Wherever I've worked it was see-eye-see-ess, including trips to customers around the U.S., but not outside. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
On 23 Jul 2010 08:25:57 -0700, steve_thomp...@stercomm.com (Thompson, Steve) wrote: SNIPPAGE Aren't Green Cards purple now? zShields up Green blackberries are red. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
It seemed to me to be a geographical thing in the US. When I lived on the east coast I always heard see-eye-see-ess and dee-oh-ess. When I moved to the west coast is when I started hearing kicks and doss. With the greater geographical mobility now and more dispersed corporations that difference may have disappeared. It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and vee-sam but no one says zoss. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) On 23 Jul 2010 08:52:54 -0700, zedgarhoo...@gmail.com (zMan) wrote: It's always appeared to me to be: Americans: see-eye-see-ess Others: kicks My brother said kicks. I don't know where he got that, he lived in California. Wherever I've worked it was see-eye-see-ess, including trips to customers around the U.S., but not outside. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Actually I do know folks who say zohss. It grates on me. On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org wrote: It seemed to me to be a geographical thing in the US. When I lived on the east coast I always heard see-eye-see-ess and dee-oh-ess. When I moved to the west coast is when I started hearing kicks and doss. With the greater geographical mobility now and more dispersed corporations that difference may have disappeared. It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and vee-sam but no one says zoss. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) On 23 Jul 2010 08:52:54 -0700, zedgarhoo...@gmail.com (zMan) wrote: It's always appeared to me to be: Americans: see-eye-see-ess Others: kicks My brother said kicks. I don't know where he got that, he lived in California. Wherever I've worked it was see-eye-see-ess, including trips to customers around the U.S., but not outside. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Agreed. On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:42 PM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote: Actually I do know folks who say zohss. It grates on me. -- Rich Smrcina Velocity Software, Inc. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Charles, that's interesting. I worked in shops in the Southeast, specifically Atlanta, for almost 30 years and there is was always kicks. It's when I moved to the Midwest in 2005 that I got into a shop where they said see-eye-see-ess, and the first time I used the term kicks they didn't know what I was talking about. Tom Kelman Capacity Planning Commerce Bank, Kansas City -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:34 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) It seemed to me to be a geographical thing in the US. When I lived on the east coast I always heard see-eye-see-ess and dee-oh-ess. When I moved to the west coast is when I started hearing kicks and doss. With the greater geographical mobility now and more dispersed corporations that difference may have disappeared. It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and vee-sam but no one says zoss. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) On 23 Jul 2010 08:52:54 -0700, zedgarhoo...@gmail.com (zMan) wrote: It's always appeared to me to be: Americans: see-eye-see-ess Others: kicks My brother said kicks. I don't know where he got that, he lived in California. Wherever I've worked it was see-eye-see-ess, including trips to customers around the U.S., but not outside. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Don Williams wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Phoenix Ted MacNEIL wrote: I even drew up a comic, in 1988 -- the dialogue was something like: Six to swap in, Mr Scott. Start I/O! houldn't that have been Start Subchannel??? Not in 1988. You mean to say that MVS/XA hadn't taken over the world by then?!?!? =-O Oh! The horror of it all! :-D I do feel sorry though for all the VSE shops that didn't get that functionality till much later. -- | Jim Phoenix | Voice: (310) 338-0400 x316 | | Senior Software Developer| Fax: (310) 338-0801| | Phoenix Software International || | 831 Parkview Drive North | jimphoe...@phoenixsoftware.com | | El Segundo, CA 90245 | http://www.phoenixsoftware.com | Opinions expressed by this individual are not necessarily those of the Company. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Now there is another twist to that - someone is writing a CICS clone for MVS3.8 and has named it KICKS :) It's already running some simple CICS COBOL applications. Mohammad On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:50:46 -0400, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I was not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and kicks won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like CICS, runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
On 23 July 2010 13:33, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org wrote: It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and vee-sam but no one says zoss. I sometimes say zoss, but only when talking to a mixed group of Americans and rest of the world people, where either standard pronunciation will offend somebody, or if not offend, at least waste some non-Friday time on a digression into pronunciation. Who's to blame for zee - is that another Noah Websterism? Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Last kicks conference I went to, the Brits all said zed-oh-ess. Greg -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu I sometimes say zoss, but only when talking to a mixed group of Americans and rest of the world people, where either standard pronunciation will offend somebody, or if not offend, at least waste some non-Friday time on a digression into pronunciation. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
I always say zoss, and I used to say eeesa for ESA. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) On 23 July 2010 13:33, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org wrote: It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and vee-sam but no one says zoss. I sometimes say zoss, but only when talking to a mixed group of Americans and rest of the world people, where either standard pronunciation will offend somebody, or if not offend, at least waste some non-Friday time on a digression into pronunciation. Who's to blame for zee - is that another Noah Websterism? Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html == This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
When I first started at one job they talked about things called def-ism and id-mmms. It took me awhile to figure out they were talking about DFHSM and IDMS. And I also have heard someone use zoss instead of ZOS. Of course this is the same shop that had RACF setup with single character passwords with no password history or password age set, and they had most of their SYS1. Dataset profiles setup as WARN only. They tried to run me off when I put in a password length and password history (what was I thinking? - to actually use the security system for SECURITY). Needless to say I left quickly. C. Todd Burrell PMP, MCSE 2003:Security Security+, Network+ Lead z/OS Systems Programmer ITSO (404) 723-2017 (Cell) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Kelman, Tom Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:13 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) Charles, that's interesting. I worked in shops in the Southeast, specifically Atlanta, for almost 30 years and there is was always kicks. It's when I moved to the Midwest in 2005 that I got into a shop where they said see-eye-see-ess, and the first time I used the term kicks they didn't know what I was talking about. Tom Kelman Capacity Planning Commerce Bank, Kansas City -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:34 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) It seemed to me to be a geographical thing in the US. When I lived on the east coast I always heard see-eye-see-ess and dee-oh-ess. When I moved to the west coast is when I started hearing kicks and doss. With the greater geographical mobility now and more dispersed corporations that difference may have disappeared. It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and vee-sam but no one says zoss. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) On 23 Jul 2010 08:52:54 -0700, zedgarhoo...@gmail.com (zMan) wrote: It's always appeared to me to be: Americans: see-eye-see-ess Others: kicks My brother said kicks. I don't know where he got that, he lived in California. Wherever I've worked it was see-eye-see-ess, including trips to customers around the U.S., but not outside. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
I believe that the KICKS you're talking about is designed to run on Hercules an MVS/zOS emulator that will run on Linux, various version of UNIX, Windows, or Mac OS. http://home.gci.net/~mike-noel/KICKS/ http://www.hercules-390.org/ Tom Kelman Capacity Planning Commerce Bank, Kansas City -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Mohammad Khan Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:08 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) Now there is another twist to that - someone is writing a CICS clone for MVS3.8 and has named it KICKS :) It's already running some simple CICS COBOL applications. Mohammad On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:50:46 -0400, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I was not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and kicks won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like CICS, runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
On 7/23/2010 4:48 PM, Kelman, Tom wrote: I believe that the KICKS you're talking about is designed to run on Hercules an MVS/zOS emulator that will run on Linux, various version of UNIX, Windows, or Mac OS. Hercules is a hardware emulator (S/370 to fairly current). The OS is distinct. The KICKS facility mentioned currently runs on MVS 3.8j as a TSO application, and would probably run on modern systems. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, VT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Early in my career, I started pronouncing CICS - kicks. Others sysprogs tried correcting me: C-I-C-S. Then I went to a class and found that I was not the only one pronouncing it - kicks. I polled my classmates and kicks won. I felt good. So no matter what IBM renames it; if it looks like CICS, runs like CICS, I'm going to call it kicks. I believe only the US spells it (C-I-C-S), all other countries pronounce it (kicks). - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
You mean to say that MVS/XA hadn't taken over the world by then? In 1988, I had just left an organisation that was still oon 1.3.4(ish). It was one of the reasons I left. The new (to me) organisation was on 2.1.7, about to go to 2.2.0. Back then, you were supposed to jump from 2.2-something to ESA. 2.1-something was not supported (so we were told). But, later it was. - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Last kicks conference I went to, the Brits all said zed-oh-ess. We Canadians do, as well. There is only one country that pronounces it zee. And, I've heard many Americans call it zee-oss. - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Kelman, Tom thomas.kel...@commercebank.com wrote: I believe that the KICKS you're talking about is designed to run on Hercules an MVS/zOS emulator that will run on Linux, various version of UNIX, Windows, or Mac OS. http://home.gci.net/~mike-noel/KICKS/http://home.gci.net/%7Emike-noel/KICKS/ http://www.hercules-390.org/ Mmm, no, that's not what we're talking about. The see-eye-see-ess vs. kicks pronunciation wars predate Hercules the emulator by a wide margin; heck, they may predate Hercules the demigod! (OK, maybe not so much...) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
On Friday 23 July 2010 11:52, zMan wrote: It's always appeared to me to be: Americans: see-eye-see-ess Others: kicks I think you might occasionally hear cheeks in Italy. :-) Among Americans, I think it depends on how much contact the staff of a particular shop have with European users of Cumbersome Initials Connoting Something. In particular those who've had contact with the CICS development team at Hursley Park seem most likely to adopt - and spread - the UK pronunciation. Most of the people I've worked with over the past 30 years in the Northeast have said kicks, but that's been in IBM or in an ISV with strong UK ties. I used to hear see-eye-see-ess in Houston ages ago. But as others have pointed out, the phenomenon seems to defy regionalization within the US. Cheers, Bob -- Bob Woodside Woodsway Consulting, Inc. http://www.woodsway.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
On 23 July 2010 23:07, Bob Woodside ibm...@woodsway.com wrote: the UK pronunciation. I used to hear see-eye-see-ess in Houston ages ago. But as others have pointed out, the phenomenon seems to defy regionalization within the US. There's also the not-yet-mentioned see-ah-see-ess... The monophthongal eye prevalent in the US South. (Where South is a concept more than a geography, of course, e.g. most of Florida not being in the South.) Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
I say zoss... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 10:34 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) It seemed to me to be a geographical thing in the US. When I lived on the east coast I always heard see-eye-see-ess and dee-oh-ess. When I moved to the west coast is when I started hearing kicks and doss. With the greater geographical mobility now and more dispersed corporations that difference may have disappeared. It's interesting. Everyone seems to say rack-eff and vee-tam and vee-sam but no one says zoss. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) On 23 Jul 2010 08:52:54 -0700, zedgarhoo...@gmail.com (zMan) wrote: It's always appeared to me to be: Americans: see-eye-see-ess Others: kicks My brother said kicks. I don't know where he got that, he lived in California. Wherever I've worked it was see-eye-see-ess, including trips to customers around the U.S., but not outside. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Oh, they pronounced it correctly did they? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Shirey Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 1:31 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.) Last kicks conference I went to, the Brits all said zed-oh-ess. Greg -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu I sometimes say zoss, but only when talking to a mixed group of Americans and rest of the world people, where either standard pronunciation will offend somebody, or if not offend, at least waste some non-Friday time on a digression into pronunciation. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CICS - KICKS (Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.)
Last kicks conference I went to, the Brits all said zed-oh-ess. Canadians do for the most part, too. - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Why not PROP instead? The publication is now and for long has been called just PRinciples of OPeration. PROP has the merits that 1) it contains no otiose [or misplaced] 's' and 2) it is not reminiscent of nursery scatology in English. Someone may well be able to think of a better replacement, but one standard term that was accurate and innocuous would certainly be useful. John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA _ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccountocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Why not PROP instead? It has been called POPS at least since 1976, when I took my first assembler course. Why change a name everybody understands? IBM has done that over the years and confused everybody. Look at the recent posts regarding z, i, p, x, z (etc.) Series. - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
FW: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Why change a name everybody understands? I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! Indeed, but then, when all else fails, re-name, re-organize: We trained hard, but it seemed every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganised. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganising, and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralisation. -Gaius Petronus, Roman general, AD 66 in _Satyricon_ , by Petronius Arbiter /s/ tuco bonno; Graduate, College of Conflict Management; University of SouthEast Asia; I partied on the Ho Chi Minh Trail - tiến lên !! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Principles Of Operation: POO Principles Of OPeration: POOP Tom Puddicombe Mainframe Performance Capacity Planning CSC 71 Deerfield Rd, Meriden, CT 06450 ITIS | (860) 428-3252 | tpudd...@csc.com | www.csc.com This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. From: john gilmore john_w_gilm...@msn.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: 07/22/2010 11:54 AM Subject: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. Why not PROP instead? The publication is now and for long has been called just PRinciples of OPeration. PROP has the merits that 1) it contains no otiose [or misplaced] 's' and 2) it is not reminiscent of nursery scatology in English. Someone may well be able to think of a better replacement, but one standard term that was accurate and innocuous would certainly be useful. John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA _ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccountocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
john gilmore wrote: Why not PROP instead? You are a good PROPonent to PROPerly PROPose a good name change! ;-D but one standard term that was accurate and innocuous would certainly be useful. What standards? There are a lot of gripes on this very list about the big blue's products name changes... From ADSM to TSM RACF to Security Server MVS/XA - MVS/ESA - OS/390 - z/OS etc... (can't remember now what ... ) Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D CICS used to be CICS, now it's TS. DB2 is UDB! - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Ted MacNEIL wrote: CICS used to be CICS, now it's TS. DB2 is UDB! Ok. Ok. Ok. I give up in this name change game! ;-D Next time, you're going break my brain... ;-[ zPS: zI zliked zyour zpost zin zthe zthread 'zEnterprise' ;-Z Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
zI zliked zyour zpost zin zthe zthread 'zEnterprise' As a Sci-Fi geek I've been making jokes about Enterprise in IBM product names since ESA was announced. I even drew up a comic, in 1988 -- the dialogue was something like: Red alert! Red alert! 8 Terabyte core dump! Can you fix it Bones? Dammit, Jim! I'm a doctor! Not a systems programmer. Six to swap in, Mr Scott. Start I/O! - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation! Kimota! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za (Elardus Engelbrecht) writes: From ADSM to TSM RACF to Security Server MVS/XA - MVS/ESA - OS/390 - z/OS etc... (can't remember now what ... ) ADSM goes back to CMSBACK I did in the late 70s ... was distributed internally ... it was finally released as workstation datasave facility ... with client front-ends that included support for backing up files to the server backend. It then became ADSM ... along with the disk division getting renamed ADSTAR and looked like ADSTAR would be spun off (new management reversed that decision). When disk division was finally unloaded, ADSM was kept ... but moved into another organization and renamed TSM. Following lists the original/first release as Workstation DataSave Facility (WDSF40 for VM) September 9, 1990: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Tivoli_Storage_Manager recent cmsback/adsm/tsm thread in linkedin group http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#0 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#18 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#19 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#22 ... for other drift, PROP ... long ago far away, stood for Programmable OPerator (later PRogrammed OPerator) -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
W dniu 2010-07-22 20:56, Elardus Engelbrecht pisze: john gilmore wrote: Why not PROP instead? You are a good PROPonent to PROPerly PROPose a good name change! ;-D but one standard term that was accurate and innocuous would certainly be useful. What standards? There are a lot of gripes on this very list about the big blue's products name changes... From ADSM to TSM RACF to Security Server MVS/XA - MVS/ESA - OS/390 - z/OS etc... (can't remember now what ... ) Thanks CICS and DB2 are still the same... ;-D Oh yes! Ten years after I AGAIN have CICS 4.1 Ooops! It's CICS TS 4.1, not CICS 4.1 What is CICS TS? Mayb some add-on tool like CICS IA, or CICS TG? vbg Of cours it's still better than PROCESSOR. Almost nobody can properly distinguish CEC and CPC - that's OK. But people used to say PROCESSOR for CEC, sometime they say this processor has 4 processors. Maybe this is the reason why some non-mainframe co-workers name it CocaCola vending machine. Size and colour are similar. g -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2009 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 118.763.528 zotych. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchway XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchway XVI NWZ z dnia 27 padziernika 2008r., moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
But it's still a Green Card isn't it? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
snip--- But it's still a Green Card isn't it? --unsnip- :-) Hasn't been green in over thirty years! :-) Latest version is white and it's a 70-page booklet. Sorry to disappoint you. (Not really! :-) ) Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
P --Original Message-- From: Ken Porowski Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu ReplyTo: IBM Mainframe Discussion List Subject: Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al. Sent: Jul 22, 2010 5:04 PM But it's still a Green Card isn't it? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Ted MacNEIL wrote: I even drew up a comic, in 1988 -- the dialogue was something like: Six to swap in, Mr Scott. Start I/O! Shouldn't that have been Start Subchannel??? -- | Jim Phoenix | Voice: (310) 338-0400 x316 | | Senior Software Developer| Fax: (310) 338-0801| | Phoenix Software International || | 831 Parkview Drive North | jimphoe...@phoenixsoftware.com | | El Segundo, CA 90245 | http://www.phoenixsoftware.com | Opinions expressed by this individual are not necessarily those of the Company. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
Shouldn't that have been Start Subchannel???
This errant pedantry up with I shall not put!
(8-{]}
It was a joke.
-
I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor motivation!
Kimota!
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Re: PROP instead of POPS, PoO, et al.
On Friday 23 July 2010 01:18, Ted MacNEIL wrote: Shouldn't that have been Start Subchannel??? This errant pedantry up with I shall not put! s/errant/arrant/ But I think we could suspend this rule in the case of a knight arrant. :-) Cheers, Bob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
