SV: SDSF User Manual
He should be honored ! :) Thomas _ Thomas Berg Specialist IT Utveckling Swedbank AB (Publ) -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För Bob Rutledge Skickat: den 6 mars 2008 23:30 Till: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Ämne: Re: SDSF User Manual Patrick O'Keefe wrote: Did SDSF start out life as an FDP? It was originally SPOOL Display and Search Facility (SDSF), product number 5798-DGN, developed by Carl Porter, I think an SE in Boulder. I first met SDSF 'round abouts 1980. Bob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 07:39:23 +0100, Barbara Nitz nitz- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... ...I think that SDSF Operations and Customization is the *only* SDSF book that still gets updated and is still around (plus was mentioned in other posts with a different suffix) so that I didn't realize that 'SDSF User Manual' was actually the name of a book way back when. ... Off-topic (or at least off-thread) and just idle curiosity: The SDSF manual (old or new title) seems sort of odd by IBM standards. To me if feels a lot like an old PDOM (whatever that stood for - Program Description and Operations Manual, maybe?). Did SDSF start out life as an FDP? Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:59:52 -0600, Patrick O'Keefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did SDSF start out life as an FDP? Yes. -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
Patrick O'Keefe wrote: Did SDSF start out life as an FDP? It was originally SPOOL Display and Search Facility (SDSF), product number 5798-DGN, developed by Carl Porter, I think an SE in Boulder. I first met SDSF 'round abouts 1980. Bob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:03:11 -0800, Schwarz, Barry A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've never seen any SDSF data in ISPF Help. SDSF does have help panels. They are not bad as reference but it is difficult to find anything if you don't already know the exact command. For example, is FINDLIM a command or an operand on the SET command? If SDSF Help had an index and a tutorial like ISPF, I think it would be more useful. The SDSF Help under ISPF -does- have an Index. As noted on the Help panel that you get by pressing PF1 from the main SDSF panel, you type I in the help to get the index. Once in the index, typing F to move to the F section gets you to the screen that has the entry for FINDLIM. Yes, a tutorial would be nice, but I've always found the basic help info sufficient. YMMV, of course. -- Walt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 06:45:29 +0100, Barbara Nitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The latest manual I was able to find was SA22-7670-09 (Sept 06). Walt, I really wouldn't want to read up on a conversion from SDSF security (yes, we're still using *that*) to RACF via panels! Regards, Barbara Nitz -- You're not alone. But I don't think the operation and customization manual will be discontinued for help panels. It is just the user interface that is no longer documented. For the most part, I agree with IBM that it isn't needed although the searching capability would be nice as previously pointed out. The came could hold true for ISPF. I can't remember the last time I ever looked at an ISPF user manual, so I would not miss it. I look at whats new in the help or just use PF1/help when am at a place where I need it. It usually pulls up the relevant help panels based on where you are in ISPF. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 06:45:29 +0100, Barbara Nitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Walt, I really wouldn't want to read up on a conversion from SDSF security (yes, we're still using *that*) to RACF via panels! True, but a -user- does not convert from SDSF security to RACF. The system programmer does that, and he does not do it by reading a user manual, but rather by reading the boo,k intended for system programmers, SDSF Operations and Customization. If that book is not sufficient for doing the conversion that's a different topic, in my opinion, Barbara. -- Walt Farrell, CISSP IBM STSM, z/OS Security Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:38:59 -0600, Walt Farrell wrote: On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:03:11 -0800, Schwarz, Barry A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... If SDSF Help had an index and a tutorial like ISPF, I think it would be more useful. The SDSF Help under ISPF -does- have an Index. As noted on the Help panel that you get by pressing PF1 from the main SDSF panel, you type I in the help to get the index. Yes, a tutorial would be nice, but I've always found the basic help info sufficient. There is a tutorial, at least with z/OS 1.9. I haven't used it, so I can't say how good it is. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:38:59 -0600, Walt Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, a tutorial would be nice, but I've always found the basic help info sufficient. YMMV, of course. So there is a tutorial in SDSF. I don't remember when it first appeared, but I thought I remembered seeing it a *long* time ago. It's just harder to find now if you don't know about it (obviously considering this thread). If you hit PF1 at the main menu, it's not listed as an option on the Table of Contents (hello???). It is on the HELP pull down menu and in the index under T. You can also type TUTOR in the command input line. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
More SDSF tutorial information at http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/zos/sdsf/pdf/sdsf_overview.pdf George Fogg -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
In a message dated 3/5/2008 4:32:05 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: _http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/zos/sdsf/pdf/sdsf_overview.pdf_ (http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/zos/sdsf/pdf/sdsf_overview.pdf) Or you can just stop after the /sdsf/ and get the whole thing? **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf000301) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
resend with a subject, sorry about that! Walt, True, but a -user- does not convert from SDSF security to RACF. The system programmer does that, and he does not do it by reading a user manual, but rather by reading the boo,k intended for system programmers, SDSF Operations and Customization. my bad. I think that SDSF Operations and Customization is the *only* SDSF book that still gets updated and is still around (plus was mentioned in other posts with a different suffix) so that I didn't realize that 'SDSF User Manual' was actually the name of a book way back when. Oh, and I didn't mean to imply that operations and customization is insufficient for the conversion, just that I had looked at that in the past and was overwhelmed with a) the stuff that would need to be done and b) the 'political' stuff in the installation (meaning to find someone who can say if an sdsf permission is really needed for a group or not) to actually *do* the conversion. (You can tell by that that I am more or less tasked with doing the conversion :-) ) Best regards, Barbara -- Ist Ihr Browser Vista-kompatibel? Jetzt die neuesten Browser-Versionen downloaden: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/browser -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
SDSF User Manual
Does anyone know of an SDSF user manual newer than the OS/390 2.10 version dated June 2000? The z/OS manuals are title Operation and Customization. The 1.8 version contains chapters for batch and REXX but nothing for the poor fool sitting at the terminal. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
I do not know if this will help, but IBM provides a PDF summary card for SDSF http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/zos/sdsf/pdf/sdsfcard.pdf Lizette Does anyone know of an SDSF user manual newer than the OS/390 2.10 version dated June 2000? The z/OS manuals are title Operation and Customization. The 1.8 version contains chapters for batch and REXX but nothing for the poor fool sitting at the terminal. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 07:36:48 -0800, Schwarz, Barry A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know of an SDSF user manual newer than the OS/390 2.10 version dated June 2000? The z/OS manuals are title Operation and Customization. The 1.8 version contains chapters for batch and REXX but nothing for the poor fool sitting at the terminal. Why doesn't the user at the terminal simply use the ISPF help facility? I'm not sure how many of our products document panel usage in books, vs making use of the ISPF help functions. -- Walt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
I have SA22-7670-08 (9/05) on the 1.7 CD. But I still find the only things worse than SDSF support and functionality is the documentation. Thank God for EJES. Jack Kelly 202-502-2390 (Office) Schwarz, Barry A [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU 03/04/2008 10:36 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU cc Subject SDSF User Manual Does anyone know of an SDSF user manual newer than the OS/390 2.10 version dated June 2000? The z/OS manuals are title Operation and Customization. The 1.8 version contains chapters for batch and REXX but nothing for the poor fool sitting at the terminal. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 07:36:48 -0800, Schwarz, Barry A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know of an SDSF user manual newer than the OS/390 2.10 version dated June 2000? The z/OS manuals are title Operation and Customization. The 1.8 version contains chapters for batch and REXX but nothing for the poor fool sitting at the terminal. Might go someway to helping: http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/zos/sdsf/ Seb -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
Thank you. Not exactly what I was looking for but useful in its own way. -Original Message- From: Lizette Koehler Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:44 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SDSF User Manual I do not know if this will help, but IBM provides a PDF summary card for SDSF http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/zos/sdsf/pdf/sdsfcard.pdf -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
On 4 Mar 2008 12:03:30 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Schwarz, Barry A) wrote: I've never seen any SDSF data in ISPF Help. SDSF does have help panels. They are not bad as reference but it is difficult to find anything if you don't already know the exact command. For example, is FINDLIM a command or an operand on the SET command? If SDSF Help had an index and a tutorial like ISPF, I think it would be more useful. While I do have some success with ISPF, Windows and even SDSF Help, I must admit to being a manual bigot. It is just much easier for me to find what I want in a PDF. Even with a manual, what do you do if you remember there is a FLIP command (flipping excluded and non excluded lines in edit or view). But you don't remember what it's called. You try SWAP, EXCHANGE, etc. How do you find it? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SDSF User Manual On 4 Mar 2008 12:03:30 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Schwarz, Barry A) wrote: I've never seen any SDSF data in ISPF Help. SDSF does have help panels. They are not bad as reference but it is difficult to find anything if you don't already know the exact command. For example, is FINDLIM a command or an operand on the SET command? If SDSF Help had an index and a tutorial like ISPF, I think it would be more useful. While I do have some success with ISPF, Windows and even SDSF Help, I must admit to being a manual bigot. It is just much easier for me to find what I want in a PDF. Even with a manual, what do you do if you remember there is a FLIP command (flipping excluded and non excluded lines in edit or view). But you don't remember what it's called. You try SWAP, EXCHANGE, etc. How do you find it? SNIP Obviously, you ask on IBM-Main. Regards, Steve Thompson -- All opinions expressed by me are my own and may not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
I've never seen any SDSF data in ISPF Help. SDSF does have help panels. They are not bad as reference but it is difficult to find anything if you don't already know the exact command. For example, is FINDLIM a command or an operand on the SET command? If SDSF Help had an index and a tutorial like ISPF, I think it would be more useful. While I do have some success with ISPF, Windows and even SDSF Help, I must admit to being a manual bigot. It is just much easier for me to find what I want in a PDF. -Original Message- From: Walt Farrell Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SDSF User Manual On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 07:36:48 -0800, Schwarz, Barry A wrote: Does anyone know of an SDSF user manual newer than the OS/390 2.10 version dated June 2000? The z/OS manuals are title Operation and Customization. The 1.8 version contains chapters for batch and REXX but nothing for the poor fool sitting at the terminal. Why doesn't the user at the terminal simply use the ISPF help facility? I'm not sure how many of our products document panel usage in books, vs making use of the ISPF help functions. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
I search on exclude. I search the index to see if something jogs my memory. And sometimes I can't find it and resort to a brute force sequential eyeball scan. -Original Message- From: Howard Brazee Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SDSF User Manual Even with a manual, what do you do if you remember there is a FLIP command (flipping excluded and non excluded lines in edit or view). But you don't remember what it's called. You try SWAP, EXCHANGE, etc. How do you find it? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:23:14 -0700, Howard Brazee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4 Mar 2008 12:03:30 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Schwarz, Barry A) wrote: I've never seen any SDSF data in ISPF Help. SDSF does have help panels. They are not bad as reference but it is difficult to find anything if you don't already know the exact command. For example, is FINDLIM a command or an operand on the SET command? If SDSF Help had an index and a tutorial like ISPF, I think it would be more useful. While I do have some success with ISPF, Windows and even SDSF Help, I must admit to being a manual bigot. It is just much easier for me to find what I want in a PDF. Even with a manual, what do you do if you remember there is a FLIP command (flipping excluded and non excluded lines in edit or view). But you don't remember what it's called. You try SWAP, EXCHANGE, etc. How do you find it? You use words that describe what the command / function does (like exclude*). This is the same thing you would do to search the MVS commands manual (or any other manual) or even a search engine. It may take you a few tries or different keywords but you should find it eventually. I think the point of the OP is that there is no standard way to search ISPF help that is contained in panels. So to answer the OP: What I would do (and have done in the past) is to use PDS86 (and it's predecessors / sister product) to search the panel library or a SYSHELP concatenated library. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF User Manual
The latest manual I was able to find was SA22-7670-09 (Sept 06). Walt, I really wouldn't want to read up on a conversion from SDSF security (yes, we're still using *that*) to RACF via panels! Regards, Barbara Nitz -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
