Re: Ways to update PS files?
Which brings up a question ... Is there a way for an application programmer to detect in the program that the file is compressed? If so, how would one do that? Regards, Ulrich Krueger -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Graeme Gibson Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 6:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Ways to update PS files? (ROFL) Yup, that's one I didn't think of! At 01:28 AM 8/22/2007, you wrote: On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 00:23 +1000, Graeme Gibson wrote: Only the application programer will be aware when [QSAM update-in-place] has been used, there's nothing to tell sysprogs or operators that it's in use and absolutely no need for them to know. Unless the sysprog (me, in one unfortunate case) enabled compression. -- David Andrews -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
Agreed. I inherited and replaced a messy set of JCL/sorts/handgrubbing w/a simple pair of cobol programs. The input tx file is update in place. It is loaded by a sort. Each tx has an effective date. Programs run once a day. When date of exec is reached, tx is executed and date of exec is shown in record. IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 08/21/2007 10:23:11 AM: I was amazed to see how many posters effectively said don't use this technique! QSAM update-in-place is a very simple, easy-to-use and effective update technique that has been used in countless applications for goodness knows how many years. Only the application programer will be aware when the technique has been used, there's nothing to tell sysprogs or operators that it's in use and absolutely no need for them to know. One of it's strengths is the ability to have concurrent batch updating of a file that is also being used read-only by other programs, perhaps for online customer queries, the sort of thing that today you'd be using a fully-blown database for. - The information contained in this communication (including any attachments hereto) is confidential and is intended solely for the personal and confidential use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. The information may also constitute a legally privileged confidential communication. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review, dissemination, copying, or unauthorized use of this information, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. Thank you -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
I've got MACRF=(GL,PL) in my programmes and it works. ;) --- This e-mail is sent by Suncorp-Metway Limited ABN 66 010 831 722 or one of its related entities Suncorp. Suncorp may be contacted at Level 18, 36 Wickham Terrace, Brisbane or on 13 11 55 or at suncorp.com.au. The content of this e-mail is the view of the sender or stated author and does not necessarily reflect the view of Suncorp. The content, including attachments, is a confidential communication between Suncorp and the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this e-mail, including attachments, is unauthorised and expressly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please contact the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and any attachments from your system. If this e-mail constitutes a commercial message of a type that you no longer wish to receive please reply to this e-mail by typing Unsubscribe in the subject line. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
Johnny Luo wrote: Steve, I also believe it should be (GL,PM) after I checked my personal notes. I remember clearly that I wrote a test program to verify that three months ago. (On z/os 1.7) H. I'd have to see the program. From DFSMS Using Data Sets, p. 398: When you update a data set in place, you read, process, and write records back to their original positions without destroying the remaining records on the track. The following rules apply: * You must specify the UPDAT option in the OPEN macro to update the data set. To perform the update, you can use only the READ, WRITE, CHECK, NOTE, and POINT macros or you use only GET and PUTX macros. To use PUTX, code MACRF=(GL,PL) on the DCB macro. * You cannot delete any record or change its length. * You cannot add new records. * The data set must be on a DASD. * You must rewrite blocks in the same order in which you read them. And later, talking about updating PDSE members (p. 478): You can update a member of a PDSE using the locate mode of QSAM (DCB specifies MACRF=(GL,PL)) and using the GET and PUTX macros. On 8/21/07, Steve Comstock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope. MACRF=(GL,PL) is what it has to be. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
Steve, Here is my program: *** *AUTHOR: JOHNNY * *DATE : 05/11/07 *DESCRIPTION: UPDATE A PS,FB FILE USING QSAM *I-OFILE: INVMAST(PS,FB,50) *** TITLE 'DEMONSTRATE HOW TO UPDATE UISNG QSAM' QSAMUPD CSECT * HOUSEKEEPING SAVE (14,12) LR 3,15 USING QSAMUPD,3 BASE REGISTER LA 15,SAVEAREA ST 15,8(,13) ST 13,SAVEAREA+4 LR 13,15 * MAINLINE OPEN (INVMAST,UPDAT) READ GET INVMAST MVC 0(50,1),=CL50'UPDATED BY QSAM HAHA!' PUTX INVMAST B READ EOF CLOSE (INVMAST) * HOUSEKEEPING L 13,SAVEAREA+4 MVC16(4,13),RC RETURN (14,12) * WORKING AREA LTORG INVMAST DCB DDNAME=INVMAST, X DSORG=PS, X RECFM=FB, X LRECL=50, X EODAD=EOF, X MACRF=(GL,PM) * SAVEAREA DS 18F RCDC F'0' ENDQSAMUPD On 8/21/07, Steve Comstock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: H. I'd have to see the program. -- Best Regards, Johnny Luo -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
Johnny Luo wrote: Steve, Here is my program: *** *AUTHOR: JOHNNY * *DATE : 05/11/07 *DESCRIPTION: UPDATE A PS,FB FILE USING QSAM *I-OFILE: INVMAST(PS,FB,50) *** TITLE 'DEMONSTRATE HOW TO UPDATE UISNG QSAM' QSAMUPD CSECT * HOUSEKEEPING SAVE (14,12) LR 3,15 USING QSAMUPD,3 BASE REGISTER LA 15,SAVEAREA ST 15,8(,13) ST 13,SAVEAREA+4 LR 13,15 * MAINLINE OPEN (INVMAST,UPDAT) READ GET INVMAST MVC 0(50,1),=CL50'UPDATED BY QSAM HAHA!' PUTX INVMAST B READ EOF CLOSE (INVMAST) * HOUSEKEEPING L 13,SAVEAREA+4 MVC16(4,13),RC RETURN (14,12) * WORKING AREA LTORG INVMAST DCB DDNAME=INVMAST, X DSORG=PS, X RECFM=FB, X LRECL=50, X EODAD=EOF, X MACRF=(GL,PM) * SAVEAREA DS 18F RCDC F'0' ENDQSAMUPD Ah! You see: you said you were going to use Put Move (MACRF=(GL,PM)), but you actually used Put Locate (or, more precisely, PUTX Locate) because your PUTX only has one operand. To use PUTX Move mode you need to specify two operands: the DCB and location where the record should be put from; so you used PUTX locate mode even though you promised to use PUTX move mode; so you got away with a little lie. The proper way is to code MACRF=(GL,PL). Try it that way. It will work and will be correct. On 8/21/07, Steve Comstock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: H. I'd have to see the program. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
Thanks, Steve. I'll fix my program as well as my notes right now. I must say I always fear to deal with i/o because it's so complicated and full of various parameters. On 8/21/07, Steve Comstock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah! You see: you said you were going to use Put Move (MACRF=(GL,PM)), but you actually used Put Locate (or, more precisely, PUTX Locate) because your PUTX only has one operand. To use PUTX Move mode you need to specify two operands: the DCB and location where the record should be put from; so you used PUTX locate mode even though you promised to use PUTX move mode; so you got away with a little lie. The proper way is to code MACRF=(GL,PL). Try it that way. It will work and will be correct. -- Best Regards, Johnny Luo -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
I suspect that UPDAT is a special case and that, for PUTX, it may not matter whether you specify MACRF=(GL,PL) or MACRF=(GL,PM). In DFSMS Using Data Sets, p. 353, it refers to: GET-locate, PUTX-update. Processed in an input buffer and returned to the same data set. And, on p.355: UPDAT mode. When a data set is opened with UPDAT specified (Figure 63), only GET-locate and PUTX-update are supported. It seems to avoid using locate and move in the UPDAT context. From: Steve Comstock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Ways to update PS files? Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 05:58:51 -0600 Johnny Luo wrote: Steve, I also believe it should be (GL,PM) after I checked my personal notes. I remember clearly that I wrote a test program to verify that three months ago. (On z/os 1.7) H. I'd have to see the program. From DFSMS Using Data Sets, p. 398: When you update a data set in place, you read, process, and write records back to their original positions without destroying the remaining records on the track. The following rules apply: * You must specify the UPDAT option in the OPEN macro to update the data set. To perform the update, you can use only the READ, WRITE, CHECK, NOTE, and POINT macros or you use only GET and PUTX macros. To use PUTX, code MACRF=(GL,PL) on the DCB macro. * You cannot delete any record or change its length. * You cannot add new records. * The data set must be on a DASD. * You must rewrite blocks in the same order in which you read them. And later, talking about updating PDSE members (p. 478): You can update a member of a PDSE using the locate mode of QSAM (DCB specifies MACRF=(GL,PL)) and using the GET and PUTX macros. On 8/21/07, Steve Comstock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope. MACRF=(GL,PL) is what it has to be. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. _ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more .then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theatercp=42.358996~-71.056691style=rlvl=13tilt=-90dir=0alt=-1000scene=950607encType=1FORM=MGAC01 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
Ah! You see: you said you were going to use Put Move (MACRF=(GL,PM)), but you actually used Put Locate (or, more precisely, PUTX Locate) because your PUTX only has one operand. To use PUTX Move mode you need to specify two operands: the DCB and location where the record should be put from; so you used PUTX locate mode even though you promised to use PUTX move mode; so you got away with a little lie. The proper way is to code MACRF=(GL,PL). Try it that way. It will work and will be correct. Actually, for PUTX, the optional second operand specifies the input dcb address, not record/buffer address. So, I think this implies that there's no such thing as PUTX-MOVE or PUTX-LOCATE. From: Steve Comstock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Ways to update PS files? Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:08:42 -0600 Johnny Luo wrote: Steve, Here is my program: ~snippage~ Ah! You see: you said you were going to use Put Move (MACRF=(GL,PM)), but you actually used Put Locate (or, more precisely, PUTX Locate) because your PUTX only has one operand. To use PUTX Move mode you need to specify two operands: the DCB and location where the record should be put from; so you used PUTX locate mode even though you promised to use PUTX move mode; so you got away with a little lie. The proper way is to code MACRF=(GL,PL). Try it that way. It will work and will be correct. On 8/21/07, Steve Comstock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: H. I'd have to see the program. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. _ Now you can see trouble before he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
Ah! You see: you said you were going to use Put Move (MACRF=(GL,PM)), but you actually used Put Locate (or, more precisely, PUTX Locate) because your PUTX only has one operand. To use PUTX Move mode you need to specify two operands: the DCB and location where the record should be put from; so you used PUTX locate mode even though you promised to use PUTX move mode; so you got away with a little lie. The proper way is to code MACRF=(GL,PL). Try it that way. It will work and will be correct. Sorry to contradict to some extent. While the outcome is as you describe, there is no PUTX-move-mode (according to the manual). The second, optional operand is the *input DCB address* to be used in the output mode. If it is omitted, PUTX assumes update mode. I consider this a special case of locate mode processing if you want to call it so, at all. The sequence of locate mode PUT is a) set DCBLRECL b) call PUT and c) finally move the record to the address returned in b). With PUTX, nothing is moved. PUTX continues with the control blocks as left by the last GET. So conceptually, it is more like a GL,PM processing than it is a GL,PL processing, since no step c) has to be done after the call to PUTX. The manual is a bit fuzzy about PUTX, so I may have misinterpreted the tex myself ;-) -- Peter Hunkeler Credit Suisse -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
I was amazed to see how many posters effectively said don't use this technique! QSAM update-in-place is a very simple, easy-to-use and effective update technique that has been used in countless applications for goodness knows how many years. Only the application programer will be aware when the technique has been used, there's nothing to tell sysprogs or operators that it's in use and absolutely no need for them to know. One of it's strengths is the ability to have concurrent batch updating of a file that is also being used read-only by other programs, perhaps for online customer queries, the sort of thing that today you'd be using a fully-blown database for. But my real point is that we need to get a grip on the primitive impulse to discard, deride and detour 'round the unfamiliar; that's the path back to anarchy and the dark ages. Graeme. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 00:23 +1000, Graeme Gibson wrote: Only the application programer will be aware when [QSAM update-in-place] has been used, there's nothing to tell sysprogs or operators that it's in use and absolutely no need for them to know. Unless the sysprog (me, in one unfortunate case) enabled compression. -- David Andrews A. Duda and Sons, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
(ROFL) Yup, that's one I didn't think of! At 01:28 AM 8/22/2007, you wrote: On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 00:23 +1000, Graeme Gibson wrote: Only the application programer will be aware when [QSAM update-in-place] has been used, there's nothing to tell sysprogs or operators that it's in use and absolutely no need for them to know. Unless the sysprog (me, in one unfortunate case) enabled compression. -- David Andrews -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Ways to update PS files?
Please forgive me for certain gaps in my knowledge as I've never even considered this before (a colleague is asking). Are there any standard ways that allow update of PS files? Using COBOL? I can't think of any off hand other than some proprietary access methods that use EXCP. Can EXECIO do it? I can check on that... Thanks, Lindy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
There are straightforward ways to update [necessarily] DASD-resident PS datasets in assembly language using the NOTE and POINT macros (q.v.), but I am not aware that any statement-level procedural language supports these operations, and Enterprise COBOL certainly does not. (An LE-compliant pair of COBOL-callable HLASM subroutines would of course be easy to write.) John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA _ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
Lindy, Do you have anything specific in mind? Security issues, Change Control, or something else. Is this for production data or any data? Basically, I think each shop determines how a data set can be updated based on the requirements of that shop. For one shop it might be that only batch jobs that use program X will update production files. Or it could be that it is okay to use an interactive approach. A PS (Physical Sequential) file can be updated any number of ways. It will depend on the application requirements. IEBGENER, IEBCOPY, an in house developed program (COBOL, ASSEMBLER, Fortran, REXX, CLIST, etc). You can use ISPF EDIT or any other number of methods. If you are talking a standardized change control process, it will depend on what you are looking for. You can have an ISPF application that will provide inputs for In-dataset and Out-dataset and then it can build the JCL that will always work and always be the same for all users. Could you let me know a little more detail on what kind of standard you are looking for? Lizette Please forgive me for certain gaps in my knowledge as I've never even considered this before (a colleague is asking). Are there any standard ways that allow update of PS files? Using COBOL? I can't think of any off hand other than some proprietary access methods that use EXCP. Can EXECIO do it? I can check on that... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
Hi Lindy, In response to: Are there any standard ways that allow update of PS files? Using COBOL? I can't think of any off hand other than some proprietary access methods that use EXCP. Can EXECIO do it? I can check on that... Not withstanding the responses already published I was about to say that I believe the traditional answer to your question is NO, when I decided to check the Cobol Programmers guide to avoid the 'egg on face' syndrome. It states in the aforesaid manual that QSAM files (which embraces PS) can be updated with records of the same size if the file is opened as I-O, and REWRITE is used. The other caveat is that the data set must reside on disk. This functionality corresponds nicely with EXECIO DISKRU/DISKW pairings used in REXX. I have not checked specifically but my guess would be that both Assembler and PL/I would have the same functionality. Kind regards - Terry Terry Sambrooks Director KMS-IT Limited 228 Abbeydale Road South Dore, Sheffield, S17 3LA, UK Tel: +44 (0)114 262 0933 WEB: www.legac-e.co.uk Company Reg: 3767263 at the above address All outgoing E-mail is scanned, but it remains the recipients responsibility to ensure their system is protected from spy-ware, trojans, viruses, and worms. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] you wrote: There are straightforward ways to update [necessarily] DASD-resident PS datasets in assembly language using the NOTE and POINT macros (q.v.), but I am not aware that any statement-level procedural language supports these operations, and Enterprise COBOL certainly does not. (An LE-compliant pair of COBOL-callable HLASM subroutines would of course be easy to write.) John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA Both SAS/C and IBM C can update PS files if the recfm is FBS. -- Don Poitras - SAS Development - SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive [EMAIL PROTECTED] (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
john gilmore wrote: There are straightforward ways to update [necessarily] DASD-resident PS datasets in assembly language using the NOTE and POINT macros (q.v.), but I am not aware that any statement-level procedural language supports these operations, and Enterprise COBOL certainly does not. (An LE-compliant pair of COBOL-callable HLASM subroutines would of course be easy to write.) John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA Assembler: use DCB MACRF=(GL,PL), open for UPDAT, issue GET, change data, issue PUTX COBOL: open for I-O, issue READ, change data, issue REWRITE DASD only. Can also do for PL/I and, I believe, C. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
As usual, we have a lot of people posting comments about things they know little about. NOTE and POINT, as reference to the current z/OS DFSMS Macro Instructions for Data Sets manual will confirm, are usable only with BSAM and BPAM. Much depends upon what kinds of update processing are required, in particular upon whether non-sequential processing is required. John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA _ More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-usocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of john gilmore Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 8:30 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ways to update PS files? As usual, we have a lot of people posting comments about things they know little about. NOTE and POINT, as reference to the current z/OS DFSMS Macro Instructions for Data Sets manual will confirm, are usable only with BSAM and BPAM. Much depends upon what kinds of update processing are required, in particular upon whether non-sequential processing is required. John Gilmore I think the simpliest answer to this question is just plain NO. Granted, that technically it can be done, it is not something that your average application programmer would want to try. If something needs to be updated ad hoc, then I'd suggest AMASPZAP. If something needs to be updated with any regularity, then I'd strongly suggest that an ESDS would be simplier to do than a PS file. The only minus is that an ESDS cannot be read as easily by an application as a PS file. Too bad IBM didn't make a PS compatability interface so that an ESDS could be read/written via a QSAM or BSAM DCB in addition to a DCB. I think that this is possible in z/VSE's version of an ESDS (but I could easily be wrong). -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
Thanks all for the clarification. This is a synopsis up what I learned, which was sort of what I thought: - Regular record oriented PS files can updated by basically opening them for I/O and replacing a particular record. They still have to be sequentially scanned of course. COBOL and EXECIO can both do this. - A FBS PS dataset can be updated at any byte location (like an ESDS or even LDS) using lower level routines provided by Assembler, IBM C and SAS/C. AMASPZAP could also be used. If you write your own access method you can even do random access I/O operations. - Still, though, when you get down to it, it is still QSAM and multi-user access (without some sort of higher level manager) would solely depend on ENQ, which, if I'm not wrong, would be pretty lame. - And finally, if it is an application programmer type asking, the answer is just plain No. (-: Regards, Lindy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of john gilmore Sent: 20. elokuuta 2007 16:30 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ways to update PS files? As usual, we have a lot of people posting comments about things they know little about. NOTE and POINT, as reference to the current z/OS DFSMS Macro Instructions for Data Sets manual will confirm, are usable only with BSAM and BPAM. Much depends upon what kinds of update processing are required, in particular upon whether non-sequential processing is required. John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
- And finally, if it is an application programmer type asking, the answer is just plain No. (-: And from a production operations point of view, how would you implement job restartability if the PS data set was being updated in place? You can't unless you also implement check pointing the updates. It's probably safer and not too much slower (depending on data size) to apply the necessary changes while copying the data set to a new instance. Simplifies restart a great deal. -- Peter Hunkeler Credit Suisse -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
As usual, we have a lot of people posting comments about things they know little about. What happened to you, John? This is the second post in this unfriendly manner in a short time. I thought this is a discussion platform; in discussions you sometimes give wrong or incomplete answers, don't you? I certainly do, be it because I misunderstood the question, be it because my knowledge is inaccurate. Regards Peter Hunkeler -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] you wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of john gilmore Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 8:30 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ways to update PS files? As usual, we have a lot of people posting comments about things they know little about. NOTE and POINT, as reference to the current z/OS DFSMS Macro Instructions for Data Sets manual will confirm, are usable only with BSAM and BPAM. Was someone insisting that QSAM be used? Much depends upon what kinds of update processing are required, in particular upon whether non-sequential processing is required. John Gilmore I think the simpliest answer to this question is just plain NO. Granted, that technically it can be done, it is not something that your average application programmer would want to try. If something needs to be updated ad hoc, then I'd suggest AMASPZAP. If something needs to be updated with any regularity, then I'd strongly suggest that an ESDS would be simplier to do than a PS file. The only minus is that an ESDS cannot be read as easily by an application as a PS file. Too bad IBM didn't make a PS compatability interface so that an ESDS could be read/written via a QSAM or BSAM DCB in addition to a DCB. I think that this is possible in z/VSE's version of an ESDS (but I could easily be wrong). If you can specify the RECFM of the dataset, then PS files are easy to update and very fast. C programmers are used to using fseek, ftell and so forth. I'm not sure if they consider themselves average, but I doubt they look on themselves as rocket scientists. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology -- Don Poitras - SAS Development - SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive [EMAIL PROTECTED] (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Poitras Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 9:12 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ways to update PS files? snip If you can specify the RECFM of the dataset, then PS files are easy to update and very fast. C programmers are used to using fseek, ftell and so forth. I'm not sure if they consider themselves average, but I doubt they look on themselves as rocket scientists. snip -- Don Poitras - SAS Development - SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Hum, I keep forgetting that C programmers are becoming more prevalent on z/OS. I was thinking of COBOL programmers. COBOL still doesn't have a way to do the equivalent of ftell and fseek. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
Lindy Mayfield wrote: Thanks all for the clarification. This is a synopsis up what I learned, which was sort of what I thought: - Regular record oriented PS files can updated by basically opening them for I/O and replacing a particular record. They still have to be sequentially scanned of course. COBOL and EXECIO can both do this. - A FBS PS dataset can be updated at any byte location (like an ESDS or even LDS) using lower level routines provided by Assembler, IBM C and SAS/C. AMASPZAP could also be used. If you write your own access method you can even do random access I/O operations. - Still, though, when you get down to it, it is still QSAM and multi-user access (without some sort of higher level manager) would solely depend on ENQ, which, if I'm not wrong, would be pretty lame. - And finally, if it is an application programmer type asking, the answer is just plain No. (-: That's a terrible attitude! If the application calls for it, why would you lie to the application programmer? Honestly, systems programmers can sometimes be so arrogant! Regards, Lindy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of john gilmore Sent: 20. elokuuta 2007 16:30 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ways to update PS files? As usual, we have a lot of people posting comments about things they know little about. NOTE and POINT, as reference to the current z/OS DFSMS Macro Instructions for Data Sets manual will confirm, are usable only with BSAM and BPAM. And GET / PUTX only usable with QSAM. So what? Much depends upon what kinds of update processing are required, in particular upon whether non-sequential processing is required. John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 9:26 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ways to update PS files? snip - And finally, if it is an application programmer type asking, the answer is just plain No. (-: That's a terrible attitude! If the application calls for it, why would you lie to the application programmer? Honestly, systems programmers can sometimes be so arrogant! snip -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock Arrogant, or realistic? I've had too many cases of applications people trying things beyond their knowledge and ending up being saddled with supporting their junk (not as much now since applications on z/OS is basically told to be 100% COBOL or EasyTrieve). Now, you'd like argue that means that the applications people need training. I would agree with you 100% on that. But management generally would disagree. People are, mostly, regarded as a disposable commodity anymore. If a person doesn't know, or cannot self-educate, then that proves them to be obsolete and in needing of replacement. I won't say more on this subject as it is likely to lead to a flame war. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
You forgot the smiley face, Steve. (-: I remember once writing an online ISPF/Rexx application that was mostly single user but could have been used by 2 or 3, and I appended change log records to a flat file. That was a bit risky. And once I did something similar to write records to see who was using a particular installation. In the first instance I was young and risky, in the second I was lazy because I new I only wanted a ball park figure and if it dropped a record here and there it wouldn't matter. Then again, in the first instance long ago I didn't have any Rexx interface to DB2 or VSAM, and for readability I didn't want to use ISPF tables. To be honest, this question came to me from a young (experience wise) MVS applications programmer, and I didn't want to just say don't do that, I wanted to give him all the facts and let him decide. Like the Jeff Foxworthy where he talks about when he was little: So you wanna put a penny in a light socket? Bzzzp. Heh heh, bet you won't do that agin. Ciao, Lindy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock Sent: 20. elokuuta 2007 17:26 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ways to update PS files? Lindy Mayfield wrote: - And finally, if it is an application programmer type asking, the answer is just plain No. (-: That's a terrible attitude! If the application calls for it, why would you lie to the application programmer? Honestly, systems programmers can sometimes be so arrogant! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:29:31 +, john gilmore wrote: As usual, we have a lot of people posting comments about things they know little about. PKB From the Enterprise COBOL Reference: quote COBOL 6.2.31 REWRITE statement The REWRITE statement logically replaces an existing record in a direct-access file. When the REWRITE statement is executed, the associated direct-access file must be open in I-O mode. 6.2.31.4 Sequential files For files in the sequential access mode, the last prior input/output statement executed for this file must be a successfully executed READ statement. When the REWRITE statement is executed, the record retrieved by that READ statement is logically replaced.The number of character positions in record- name-1 must equal the number of character positions in the record being replaced. /quote COBOL -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
On 8/20/2007 9:50 AM, Lindy Mayfield wrote: Thanks all for the clarification. This is a synopsis up what I learned, which was sort of what I thought: ...snipped... - Still, though, when you get down to it, it is still QSAM and multi-user access (without some sort of higher level manager) would solely depend on ENQ, which, if I'm not wrong, would be pretty lame. I'm not sure what you mean by lame. Properly used, ENQ will provide all that you need for data integrity. In order for two users (jobs) to have the data set allocated concurrently, they would have to specify DISP=SHR. Anyone doing an update -should- instead specify DISP=OLD, which would prevent any problems. If a single updater does specify DISP=SHR (perhaps to allow simultaneous reading) then it's not clear whether any readers would see the old or the new data. On the other hand one usually can not predict whether the updater will update before or after someone reads the record, so I don't think that matters. If two updaters try to run, specifying DISP=SHR, I believe that the second one to try the OPEN will get some flavor of S213 ABEND on any supported z/OS release. -- Walt Farrell, CISSP IBM STSM, z/OS Security Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Changes in the wind? (was Re: ways to update PS files?)
McKown, John wrote: [snip] Arrogant, or realistic? I've had too many cases of applications people trying things beyond their knowledge and ending up being saddled with supporting their junk (not as much now since applications on z/OS is basically told to be 100% COBOL or EasyTrieve). Now, you'd like argue that means that the applications people need training. I would agree with you 100% on that. Great. But management generally would disagree. People are, mostly, regarded as a disposable commodity anymore. If a person doesn't know, or cannot self-educate, then that proves them to be obsolete and in needing of replacement. Well, that has been evident over the last several years. And frustrating for us and for all people in IT. But we are beginning to see hints that may be changing. Just last Friday, we had one email (from India) and two phone calls (one from NJ, one from NC) inquiring about training. Too soon to say if any work will result from any of these, but we like to look at them as omens that at least some management is beginning to realize that formal, well-designed training is a quick, effective way to upgrade their people's skills, and that those skills indeed need updating. If everyone outsources and uses the same software packages, how can one firm promote any advantages over its competitors? The companies themselves become commodities, competing solely on price. The Wal-Mart mentality comes home to roost. It's time to start differentiating one's company from the pack based on quality and services as well as (or, better, instead of) price. It's time to invest money and time in people to provide the infrastructure for innovative and competitive ways to attract and keep customers. Part of the formula for this is a well-trained, well-motivated work force. And those of us in the trenches are not powerless. But it takes courage to stand up to the common concensus when we know it's not necessarily the best way to go. But now's a good time to promote mainframe capabilities in the face of Windows mindsets. Now's a good time to learn what the mainframe can do, and to promote this. If you use us, that's great. If you do self-learning: that's great too. If you use our competitors, that's, well, not bad. (g). -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
I should have been more thoughtful and said: Sometimes problematic, sometimes adding an extra layer of complexity, sometimes simplifying the situation. Problematic as John pointed out batch jobs that need to regularly update the same file and constantly running into each other and restart problems. Extra complexity as for example a Rexx online-ish program that has to keep trying to ENQ the dataset and implement X number of tries or Y amount of time to keep trying before it gives up. Simplification as in batch job A that has it old and batch job B that is run unscheduled and either goes down or waits for resources. (Not sure what system parameter governs that, though.) Anyway, thanks Walt, as it is obvious there are aspects of ENQ and data integrity that I need to know better. I'm glad I asked. (-: Lindy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Walt Farrell Sent: 20. elokuuta 2007 18:44 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ways to update PS files? On 8/20/2007 9:50 AM, Lindy Mayfield wrote: Thanks all for the clarification. This is a synopsis up what I learned, which was sort of what I thought: ...snipped... - Still, though, when you get down to it, it is still QSAM and multi-user access (without some sort of higher level manager) would solely depend on ENQ, which, if I'm not wrong, would be pretty lame. I'm not sure what you mean by lame. Properly used, ENQ will provide all that you need for data integrity. In order for two users (jobs) to have the data set allocated concurrently, they would have to specify DISP=SHR. Anyone doing an update -should- instead specify DISP=OLD, which would prevent any problems. If a single updater does specify DISP=SHR (perhaps to allow simultaneous reading) then it's not clear whether any readers would see the old or the new data. On the other hand one usually can not predict whether the updater will update before or after someone reads the record, so I don't think that matters. If two updaters try to run, specifying DISP=SHR, I believe that the second one to try the OPEN will get some flavor of S213 ABEND on any supported z/OS release. -- Walt Farrell, CISSP IBM STSM, z/OS Security Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ways to update PS files?
-snip- NOTE and POINT, as reference to the current z/OS DFSMS MacroInstructions for Data Sets manual will confirm, are usable only with BSAM and BPAM. And GET / PUTX only usable with QSAM. So what? Much depends upon what kinds of update processing are required, in particular upon whether non-sequential processing is required. unsnip--- With BSAM, in Assembler, you would READ a block. After scanning through and determining that update is required, just issue a WRITE on the block, using the same DECB that was used to READ it. Don't forget to do a CHECK after each READ or WRITE. NOTE and POINT are not needed; OPEN for UPDAT will set appropriate flags for address reuse, etc. With QSAM, In Assembler, issue GET (Locate mode); when a record that requires update is required, do the update then issue PUTX(Move mode). In PL/1, OPEN the FILE for UPDATE, use sequential READ to locate records to be updated. As each record is updated, use REWRITE to update the record. I have no idea of the constructs for other languages. Which one you use depends on your requirements and staff capabilities. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
--snip- john gilmore wrote: There are straightforward ways to update [necessarily] DASD-resident PS datasets in assembly language using the NOTE and POINT macros (q.v.), but I am not aware that any statement-level procedural language supports these operations, and Enterprise COBOL certainly does not. (An LE-compliant pair of COBOL-callable HLASM subroutines would of course be easy to write.) John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA Assembler: use DCB MACRF=(GL,PL), open for UPDAT, issue GET, change data, issue PUTX COBOL: open for I-O, issue READ, change data, issue REWRITE DASD only. Can also do for PL/I and, I believe, C. unsnip-- Steve, I believe it MACRF=(GL,PM) for PUTX, isn't it? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
Rick Fochtman wrote: --snip- john gilmore wrote: There are straightforward ways to update [necessarily] DASD-resident PS datasets in assembly language using the NOTE and POINT macros (q.v.), but I am not aware that any statement-level procedural language supports these operations, and Enterprise COBOL certainly does not. (An LE-compliant pair of COBOL-callable HLASM subroutines would of course be easy to write.) John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA Assembler: use DCB MACRF=(GL,PL), open for UPDAT, issue GET, change data, issue PUTX COBOL: open for I-O, issue READ, change data, issue REWRITE DASD only. Can also do for PL/I and, I believe, C. unsnip-- Steve, I believe it MACRF=(GL,PM) for PUTX, isn't it? Nope. MACRF=(GL,PL) is what it has to be. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ways to update PS files?
Steve, I also believe it should be (GL,PM) after I checked my personal notes. I remember clearly that I wrote a test program to verify that three months ago. (On z/os 1.7) On 8/21/07, Steve Comstock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope. MACRF=(GL,PL) is what it has to be. -- Best Regards, Johnny Luo -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
