Extents more than One for load modules library
Hi All, I see some of a product load modules have extents more than 1 like 2 and 4. I still the product runs with no error and abend. Are there any impact to the product if the libraries are more than 1 ? Could you please suggest me if it is good to run the product with extents more than 1. Jake -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 11:55:38 +0530, Jake anderson wrote: I see some of a product load modules have extents more than 1 like 2 and 4. I still the product runs with no error and abend. Are there any impact to the product if the libraries are more than 1 ? Could you please suggest me if it is good to run the product with extents more than 1. I am not the expert. But my understanding is the hazard is greatest if additional extents are created while the product is running. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
Load libraries go to more than one extent all the time. I don't believe there is any general problem. I would expect it would have a small performance impact on the actual loading of the executable, and if there were a small handful of products out there that had an issue it would not amaze me, but I don't think z/OS would allow it if it were generally a problem. For neatness sake I prefer all datasets be a single extent, but that's very low on my list of worries. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jake anderson Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:26 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Extents more than One for load modules library Hi All, I see some of a product load modules have extents more than 1 like 2 and 4. I still the product runs with no error and abend. Are there any impact to the product if the libraries are more than 1 ? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: another question about TSO edit command
I know, this is an issue to be discussed rather in ISPF-L than here, but i assume that all folks here are using ISPF intensively as well. What I'm really missing in ISPF edit (since I had a task that would have been solved smartly in this way) are these 2 features: ·A REDISPLAY/REFRESH command in edit macros and ·A command to convert special lines (like notelines) to datalines. At present we are running z/OS 1.13 but when reading the ISPF-docs for 2.1 I could not find any hint in this direction. Arthur -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
If the loadlib has a very small blocksiZe (e.g. 1000 bytes, which we found in an IMS load library) that causes a frequently loaded module to be in MANY extents, there can be response time impact of seconds per transaction when those multi-extent members are loaded. Using half-track blocksize will mitigate against that kind of stupidity we found in our IMS folks who had chosen that small blocksize to make more use of disk space (which was itself an incorrect choice). Barry Herbert W. “Barry” Merrill, PhD President-Programmer MXG Software Merrill Consultants 10717 Cromwell Drive Dallas, TX 75229 ba...@mxg.com http://www.mxg.com - FAQ has Most Answers ad...@mxg.com – invoices/PO/Payment supp...@mxg.com– technical tel: 214 351 1966 - expect slow reply, use email fax: 214 350 3694 – prefer email, still works -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jake anderson Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 1:26 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Extents more than One for load modules library Hi All, I see some of a product load modules have extents more than 1 like 2 and 4. I still the product runs with no error and abend. Are there any impact to the product if the libraries are more than 1 ? Could you please suggest me if it is good to run the product with extents more than 1. Jake -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
Load libraries go to more than one extent all the time. I don't believe there is any general problem. The problem occurs if the libraries are in the Linklist. A new extent won't be reflected in the DEB. For non-Linklist libraries it shouldn't be a problem until the next IPL or until a new Linklist Set is created.. Bob Shannon Rocket Software Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ +1 800.966.3270 ■ +1 781.577.4321 Unsubscribe From Commercial Email – unsubscr...@rocketsoftware.com Manage Your Subscription Preferences - http://info.rocketsoftware.com/GlobalSubscriptionManagementEmailFooter_SubscriptionCenter.html Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
I get your first point -- makes sense. But is your third sentence garbled? Why should it [multiple extents?] be a problem for non-linklist libraries at the next IPL? Or am I mis-reading your sentence? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 12:53 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Extents more than One for load modules library Load libraries go to more than one extent all the time. I don't believe there is any general problem. The problem occurs if the libraries are in the Linklist. A new extent won't be reflected in the DEB. For non-Linklist libraries it shouldn't be a problem until the next IPL or until a new Linklist Set is created.. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
Bob Yes they are part of linklist. Before and after IPL there extents were 2 and 4. On 10 Aug 2014 16:25, Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com wrote: Load libraries go to more than one extent all the time. I don't believe there is any general problem. The problem occurs if the libraries are in the Linklist. A new extent won't be reflected in the DEB. For non-Linklist libraries it shouldn't be a problem until the next IPL or until a new Linklist Set is created.. Bob Shannon Rocket Software Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ +1 800.966.3270 ■ +1 781.577.4321 Unsubscribe From Commercial Email – unsubscr...@rocketsoftware.com Manage Your Subscription Preferences - http://info.rocketsoftware.com/GlobalSubscriptionManagementEmailFooter_SubscriptionCenter.html Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
Multiple-extent load libraries have been discouraged since the days of OS/360; and, since real, spinning DASD is now a rarity of interest chiefly to archeologists, there is no longer any excuse for them for them. In the old days IBM's [DASD] storage estimates were often low, so that secondary extents were created during SYSGENs; but such problems are long behind us. Make your libraries single-extent before your next IPL, and consider making those that can be PDSEs instead of PDSs. The storage required to do so can be calculated in an obvious way from the multiple-extent storage they now occupy with some provision for growth. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: another question about TSO edit command
On 8/10/2014 2:19 AM, Arthur Fichtl wrote: I know, this is an issue to be discussed rather in ISPF-L than here, but i assume that all folks here are using ISPF intensively as well. What I'm really missing in ISPF edit (since I had a task that would have been solved smartly in this way) are these 2 features: ·A REDISPLAY/REFRESH command in edit macros and not sure what you mean / what you want by that ·A command to convert special lines (like notelines) to datalines. the line command MD does that, and has for many years At present we are running z/OS 1.13 but when reading the ISPF-docs for 2.1 I could not find any hint in this direction. Arthur -Steve Comstock -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
There used to be, probably still is, a limit on the total number of extents for all PDS libraries in the Linklist. If adding one more extent to a Linklist library would put you over that limit, a failure would occur at the next Llinklist rebuild. Because of this, some on this list have in the past advocated against allowing secondary extents for any Linklist libraries. Every once in a while I would get concerned, count our total extents, and always found we were less than 50% of the max. I suspect hitting that max would be unlikely for many installations; but if you were one of those installations at risk, then it would make sense to avoid Linklist secondary allocations or at least police them closely. For the rest of us, having multiple extents in Linklist libraries may be an indication of an under-allocated library and may be aesthetically displeasing, but is OK as long as you aren't about to exhaust a PDS directory space as well. On the other side, if you have a bad module in a full, actively used linklist library that cannot be safely compressed and the module must be replaced in order for the system to run correctly after the next IPL, having the ability to dynamically allow another extent to the library and install a module that will not be seen until the next Linklist creation was always better than not being able to install the module at all. There are always alternatives, like allocating a new library with a different name and changing the Linklist definitions to use that, but that is a more complex solution requiring additional changes and with additional opportunity for error -- best reserved for cases where a rebuild of the library is really required. Joel C. Ewing On 08/10/2014 06:05 AM, Charles Mills wrote: I get your first point -- makes sense. But is your third sentence garbled? Why should it [multiple extents?] be a problem for non-linklist libraries at the next IPL? Or am I mis-reading your sentence? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 12:53 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Extents more than One for load modules library Load libraries go to more than one extent all the time. I don't believe there is any general problem. -- Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR jcew...@acm.org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
Jake, First it is always helpful to supply a full description of your issue and your z/OS Level. If you are talking about non LINKLST libraries - No If you are talking about Linklst Libraries - Yes and the following applies. Second, by going to the z/OS MVS Init and Tuning Reference manual, you should have been able to find your answers. 1) The number of data sets you can concatenate to form the LNKLST concatenation is limited by the total number of DASD extents the data sets will occupy. The total number of extents must not exceed 255. A partitioned data set extended (PDSE) counts as one extent. The system concatenates as many of the data sets as possible until the limit of 255 extents is reached. The system ignores the remaining data sets. When the limit has been exceeded, the system writes error message IEA328E to the operator's console. This message is issued whether the concatenation is defined by LNKLSTxx or by PROGxx. 2) When using PDSs and PDSEs, you can allocate LNKLST data sets with secondary extents. However, IBM® suggests that PDSs in the LNKLST be allocated with only primary extents, for two reasons. First, this makes it easier to stay within the 255-extent limit for an active LNKLST concatenation. without having to reallocate data sets in fewer extents initially. Second, if a PDS will be updated while in the link list, it can be extended if it has been allocated using secondary space. This can cause members to be placed in extents that did not exist when the LNKLST concatenation was opened. Any attempt to access a member in a new extent causes the requesting program to abend with a logical I/O error. This recommendation does not apply to PDSEs. If a LNKLST PDS has expanded into a secondary extent since the most recent IPL you can IPL or take the appropriate steps to redo the LINKLST An internet search and reading manuals can be your friends. Lizette -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jake anderson Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2014 11:26 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Extents more than One for load modules library Hi All, I see some of a product load modules have extents more than 1 like 2 and 4. I still the product runs with no error and abend. Are there any impact to the product if the libraries are more than 1 ? Could you please suggest me if it is good to run the product with extents more than 1. Jake -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
But is your third sentence garbled? Yes it is. Thanks for pointing that out. It should read: The problem occurs if the libraries are in the Linklist. A new extent won't be reflected in the DEB until the next IPL or until a new Linklist Set is created. For non-Linklist libraries it shouldn't be a problem. Bob Shannon Rocket Software Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ +1 800.966.3270 ■ +1 781.577.4321 Unsubscribe From Commercial Email – unsubscr...@rocketsoftware.com Manage Your Subscription Preferences - http://info.rocketsoftware.com/GlobalSubscriptionManagementEmailFooter_SubscriptionCenter.html Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
Lizette, It was not about issue. Here I am trying to get opinion on secondary extents. Interested people do respond but yes I have manuals going through. On 10 Aug 2014 19:53, Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com wrote: But is your third sentence garbled? Yes it is. Thanks for pointing that out. It should read: The problem occurs if the libraries are in the Linklist. A new extent won't be reflected in the DEB until the next IPL or until a new Linklist Set is created. For non-Linklist libraries it shouldn't be a problem. Bob Shannon Rocket Software Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ +1 800.966.3270 ■ +1 781.577.4321 Unsubscribe From Commercial Email – unsubscr...@rocketsoftware.com Manage Your Subscription Preferences - http://info.rocketsoftware.com/GlobalSubscriptionManagementEmailFooter_SubscriptionCenter.html Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
Jake Remember, this is a list - people have real jobs and are taking time out of their day to supply answers. They love to mentor people and support them. But the more you ask questions without detail, means over time you may not get answers or may get a lot of questions before you get the answer you are looking for. The more details - the better the response. Just my opinion. Your original posting I see some of a product load modules have extents more than 1 like 2 and 4. I still the product runs with no error and abend. Are there any impact to the product if the libraries are more than 1 ? Could you please suggest me if it is good to run the product with extents more than 1. You did not state the product, the reason for the concern, the level of z/OS or if you were seeing any errors/abends/ or issues. Some additional question: 1) Does the product do a BLDL on the load module on first load? 2) Does the product have a refresh function? 3) Can the product use PDS/E? 4) Is the Loadlib in the LINKLST or LPA or MLPA or ??? 5) Is it used in an STC or Batch job? 6) Is there a VTAM interface or Web Interface to the MF? 7) Is this product in CICS/IMS/ or other??? 8) Have you checked with the product vendor if it is okay to run with more than one extent? Probably some others as well. Lizette -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jake anderson Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:24 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Extents more than One for load modules library Lizette, It was not about issue. Here I am trying to get opinion on secondary extents. Interested people do respond but yes I have manuals going through. On 10 Aug 2014 19:53, Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com wrote: But is your third sentence garbled? Yes it is. Thanks for pointing that out. It should read: The problem occurs if the libraries are in the Linklist. A new extent won't be reflected in the DEB until the next IPL or until a new Linklist Set is created. For non-Linklist libraries it shouldn't be a problem. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
If the library is in extents at the time of the IPL, there is no problem. When the linklist DEB is constructed, the extents will be handled properly. A problem can occur if linklist library goes into extents while the linklist is active. The additional extent is not added to the DEB. If an attempt is made to access any data in the new extent, an extent violation occurs and the load module will not be loaded. The issue is not unique to linklist libraries. Any active library, such as the STEPLIB of a long running task, can have the same problem if the task attempts to access a member from an extent that is not part of the existing DEB. Things to keep in mind: The DEB is attached to a DCB. So two programs accessing the same dataset via their own DCBs can have different DEBs which means one program could access the new extent will a different one could fail. The access methods automatically update the DEB for output DCBs that grow into a new extent. If you replace a member of a PDS with a new version of the same size, the new data goes at the end of any existing data (and may be in a new extent). If you then compress the PDS, everything will move back into the original extents and the new extent will be empty. If the PDS is in the linklist, you can refresh LLA so it has the correct TTRs for all the members (the compress changed any that followed the replaced member). THIS PROCESS CAN CAUSE OTHER PROBLEMS THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED HERE PREVIOUSLY. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jake anderson Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:08 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Extents more than One for load modules library Bob Yes they are part of linklist. Before and after IPL there extents were 2 and 4. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
At 07:13 -0700 on 08/10/2014, Lizette Koehler wrote about Re: Extents more than One for load modules library: However, IBM suggests that PDSs in the LNKLST be allocated with only primary extents You have to look at the allocation that was done even if you DID NOT declare any secondary space at allocation time since, if I remember correctly, if the primary space request can not be granted as a single extent, the system will satisfy it in up to 3?/5? extents. If this happens, I am not sure if it can be expanded more but in any case it DOES count as the allocated number of extents. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
Yes, up to 5 extents. Alternatively, you can use the CONTIG option, then you would not need to look to see what you got; you either get what you requested or nothing. === Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:02:35 -0400 From: hal9...@panix.com Subject: Re: Extents more than One for load modules library To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU At 07:13 -0700 on 08/10/2014, Lizette Koehler wrote about Re: Extents more than One for load modules library: However, IBM suggests that PDSs in the LNKLST be allocated with only primary extents You have to look at the allocation that was done even if you DID NOT declare any secondary space at allocation time since, if I remember correctly, if the primary space request can not be granted as a single extent, the system will satisfy it in up to 3?/5? extents. If this happens, I am not sure if it can be expanded more but in any case it DOES count as the allocated number of extents. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Extents more than One for load modules library
My earlier point about the use of PDSEs ought perhaps to have been made more explicitly. They count as and are processed as only one extent, As Lizette has already noted. Except for the system libraries that cannot [yet?] be PDSEs, every other library should be one. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Check out BBC News - USB 'critically flawed' after bug discovery, researchers
_BBC News - USB 'critically flawed' after bug discovery, researchers say_ (http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28701124) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Check out BBC News - USB 'critically flawed' after bug discovery, researchers
Encrypt USBs with PGP and make them ISO-bootable, or use Aladdin eTokens - just my ha'pennyworth. Ed Finnell wrote: _BBC News - USB 'critically flawed' after bug discovery, researchers say_ (http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28701124) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Check out BBC News - USB 'critically flawed' after bug discovery, researchers
You have to have firmware to run the USB. And in their example they were able to create a malicious firmware that nothing checks for. On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 11:00 PM, Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:42:12 -0400 Ed Finnell 000248cce9f3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu wrote: :_BBC News - USB 'critically flawed' after bug discovery, researchers say_ :(http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28701124) Doesn't the base OS first have to allow the USB to be connected and declare itself? Is there no way to force it to be storage only? -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
