Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[Ed Jaffe]

On 11/17/2022 6:20 AM, Gabriel Tully wrote:

I recently came across this blog about tnz.

https://medium.com/theropod/3270-is-terminal-84d0af522cfd


I never heard of this emulator until I read your post. I decided to try 
it using python 3.10 on Windows 11.


It seemed to work well with TSO/ISPF, CICS and our native VTAM 
applications when connecting directly via LOGON APPLID(xxx).


However, when I tried to access our native VTAM applications via 
CL/Supersession it crashed every time before the first screen could be 
displayed.


Too bad. I was looking forward to giving it a whirl... :-(

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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[kekronbekron]

What? RMF can export to prometheus?
Do you mean zDG, with its own zOSMF / WAS Liberty deployment?

- KB

--- Original Message ---
On Saturday, November 19th, 2022 at 6:27 AM, David Crayford 
 wrote:


> On 19/11/22 02:12, René Jansen wrote:
> 
> > RMFIII is my main use case.
> 
> 
> If it's graphics that you seek, RMF has been modernized to export to
> Prometheus/Grafana.
> 
> > Not supporting GDDM is a case of self-fulfilling prophecy. Quality of 3270 
> > terminal emulators has been going down since CM/2, with lots of products 
> > having funny and off color schemes, no or wrong terminal status symbols, 
> > terribly mixed-up key definitions, the wrong codepages as a default or make 
> > the terrible decision of blitting pixels over the network instead of tn3270 
> > protocol.
> > 
> > I like Tom's Vista3270, but it is Windows only.
> 
> 
> It works just fine on my Linux machine using Wine once I installed the
> fonts.
> 
> > Who actually wants to use Windows for work?
> 
> 
> Oh no, a smug Mac user!
> 
> I don't have a choice any more. My employer used to offer the choice of
> Windows or Mac but have since settled on Windows only citing support
> issues. Since Windows launched WSL and IDEs such as Intellij and VS Code
> integrate seemlessly I would pick Windows over a Mac with homebrew any
> day of the week. I've got a Macbook Air and the killer features such as
> high resolution retina display and long battery life don't justify the
> cost when I hook my machine up to a external monitor and run it plugged in.
> 
> > I don't miss it, and consider it technical debt ;-)
> > 
> > René.
> > 
> > > On 17 Nov 2022, at 20:07, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > On 18/11/22 00:05, Dave Jones wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Now if it would only support GDDM style graphics orders like PCOMM 
> > > > does...
> > > > Who actually uses GDDM? I use Tom's Vista and I couldn't care less that 
> > > > it doesn't support GDDM. Rocket Terminal Emulator Web edition can serve 
> > > > thousands of 3270 sessions on a single Node.js server instance. Rocket 
> > > > know how to implement GDDM but didn't bother with BlueZone Web as it 
> > > > wasn't deemed necessary and having to support it was considered future 
> > > > technical debt.
> > > 
> > > > DJ
> > > > 
> > > > --
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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[kekronbekron]

When I first noticed this tnz repo, I had no idea how to use it.
Readme might as well have been written in ones and zeros.
Only after I saw a post on medium (someone mentioned the link in this thread 
earlier) on tnz, did I know how to connect to a specific host:port.
Open sourcing without doco is irritating.
Or worse when it assumes loads of other things to be already in place, because 
that's how it is in the author's test/dev env.

It's like, "Yo, it works for us... do you even read the source code?"

- KB

--- Original Message ---
On Saturday, November 19th, 2022 at 3:53 AM, Neil Johnson  
wrote:


> Yes, you can use the tnz zti emulator without SSL.
> 
> The following will force port 23 (the normal non-SSL tn3270 port) and zti 
> will default to not use SSL:
> 
> zti {hostname}:23
> 
> 
> You can also turn it off for any port:
> 
> zti
> set SESSION_SSL 0
> goto {hostname}[:{port}]
> 
> 
> Create a ~/.ztirc file with the following to always turn it off:
> 
> set SESSION_SSL 0
> 
> 
> This is a very common question and needs to be documented better.
> 
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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[kekronbekron]

Oh that makes sense.
A few days ago, people were posting about how they found IBM's assembler code 
from CICS or something very useful for their own learning advancement.

At the time, there were vendors and allowing just visibility to source code 
would have been like leaving the room with their core mainframe secrets 
unlocked.
Now I hope that's less of a problem as there are only the big guns in town.
Also hope they're moving to C++ (or other LLVM-based) anyway for new zOS 
products.

- KB

--- Original Message ---
On Friday, November 18th, 2022 at 9:14 PM, David Spiegel 
<0468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


> Hi KB,
> OCO=Object Code Only
> That is, IBM's 1983 unintelligent decision to stop supplying Source Code.
> Yet, schizophrenically, they support Open Source. SMH (for the last 39
> years).
> 
> Regards,
> David
> 
> On 2022-11-18 10:33, kekronbekron wrote:
> 
> > Hi Paul,
> > 
> > What's OCO?
> > 
> > - KB
> > --- Original Message ---
> > On Thursday, November 17th, 2022 at 7:52 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
> > 042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 19:06:03 +0800, David Crayford wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Thanks for sharing. I just tried it and it's cool. Much better than
> > > > c3270. Supports all the usual fruit. I spend a lot of time in shells and
> > > > this is a great utility.
> > > > c3270? A fairer comparison would be to x3270.
> > > 
> > > Does it support screen capture as text (not inage)?
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 13:44:53 +, kekronbekron wrote:
> > > 
> > > > It is cool indeed. I wish IBM did more to encourage enterprises 
> > > > (especially the mainframe domain) to use more open source.
> > > > It's quite obvious now that open source isn't broke man's software; 
> > > > it's a place for very talented people from around the world to solve 
> > > > common problems, in a way that a single vendor cannot.
> > > > Like how some folks write extremely performant this or that.
> > > > That's somewhat the way things were a half-century ago, prior to OCO.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > gil
> > > 
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Capture 3270 screen as text (was: TNZ 3270 Emulator: ... )

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 08:57:04 +0800, David Crayford wrote:

>On 19/11/22 02:12, René Jansen wrote:
>> RMFIII is my main use case.
>
>If it's graphics that you seek, RMF has been modernized to export to
>Prometheus/Grafana.
>
Contrariwise, at times I have wished to be able to capture a screen as text
for embedding in User Manuals such that:
o The appearance of the screen is realistic (colors don't matter much.)
o The text can be searched and Copy/Pasted for user experiments.

IBM Pubs does a credible job of this, as in:

and the corresponding PDF document.  Both have selectable text.

What tool does this?  (And facilitates problem reports in text format?)

-- 
gil

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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[David Crayford]

On 19/11/22 02:12, René Jansen wrote:

RMFIII is my main use case.


If it's graphics that you seek, RMF has been modernized to export to 
Prometheus/Grafana.




  Not supporting GDDM is a case of self-fulfilling prophecy. Quality of 3270 
terminal emulators has been going down since CM/2, with lots of products having 
funny and off color schemes, no or wrong terminal status symbols, terribly 
mixed-up key definitions, the wrong codepages as a default or make the terrible 
decision of blitting pixels over the network instead of tn3270 protocol.

I like Tom's Vista3270, but it is Windows only.


It works just fine on my Linux machine using Wine once I installed the 
fonts.




Who actually wants to use Windows for work?


Oh no, a smug Mac user!

I don't have a choice any more. My employer used to offer the choice of 
Windows or Mac but have since settled on Windows only citing support 
issues. Since Windows launched WSL and IDEs such as Intellij and VS Code 
integrate seemlessly I would pick Windows over a Mac with homebrew any 
day of the week. I've got a Macbook Air and the killer features such as 
high resolution retina display and long battery life don't justify the 
cost when I hook my machine up to a external monitor and run it plugged in.




I don't miss it, and consider it technical debt ;-)

René.


On 17 Nov 2022, at 20:07, David Crayford  wrote:

On 18/11/22 00:05, Dave Jones wrote:

Now if it would only support GDDM style graphics orders like PCOMM does...

Who actually uses GDDM? I use Tom's Vista and I couldn't care less that it 
doesn't support GDDM. Rocket Terminal Emulator Web edition can serve thousands 
of 3270 sessions on a single Node.js server instance. Rocket know how to 
implement GDDM but didn't bother with BlueZone Web as it wasn't deemed 
necessary and having to support it was considered future technical debt.



DJ

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Re: ICETOOL / SORT capturing count of output records when using INCLUDE

[Sri h Kolusu]

>> Our input file is a tape variable block.

Eric,

Use the following control cards

//SYSINDD *,SYMBOLS=JCLONLY
  OPTION COPY
  INCLUDE COND=(16,02,CH,EQ,C'',OR,
16,02,CH,EQ,C'',OR,
16,02,CH,EQ,C'')

  INREC OVERLAY=(1877:16,02,CHANGE=(3,C'',C'100',
C'',C'010',
C'',C'001'),
   NOMATCH=(C'000'))

  OUTFIL FNAMES=OUT1,INCLUDE=(16,02,CH,EQ,C''),
  VTOF,BUILD=(05,1872)

  OUTFIL FNAMES=OUT2,INCLUDE=(16,02,CH,EQ,C''),
  VTOF,BUILD=(05,1872)

  OUTFIL FNAMES=OUT3,INCLUDE=(16,02,CH,EQ,C''),
  VTOF,BUILD=(05,1872)

  OUTFIL FNAMES=REPORT,
  REMOVECC,NODETAIL,VTOF,BUILD=(80X),
  TRAILER1=('NUM OF RECORDS FOR TYPE  : ',
 TOT=(1877,1,ZD,M10,LENGTH=8),/,
'NUM OF RECORDS FOR TYPE  : ',
 TOT=(1878,1,ZD,M10,LENGTH=8),/,
'NUM OF RECORDS FOR TYPE  : ',
 TOT=(1879,1,ZD,M10,LENGTH=8))

/*

Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation



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Re: ICETOOL / SORT capturing count of output records when using INCLUDE

[Verwijs, Frederick F [NC]]

Hello Kolusu,

I can't get it to work.

Our input file is a tape variable block.
The data we are selecting on is at byte 16, already adjusted for the 4 bytes.

My output file will be tapes, FB, 1872 bytes. All the data from the input tape.

I get:
ICE027A 9 END OF OUT1 FIELD BEYOND MAXIMUM RECORD LENGTH
ICE751I 0 C5-I90068 C6-I90068 C7-I90068 C8-I90068 E9-I74062 E7-I90068
ICE052I 3 END OF DFSORT

Even when I’m just fiddling with it, using your example, I get the above error 
when I start the field at 5. It works when it starts at 4.

Annoyingly, the above error goes away when I remove the code to get the totals.

What am I missing?

Here's my JCL:
  OPTION COPY
  INCLUDE COND=(16,02,CH,EQ,C'',OR,
16,02,CH,EQ,C'',OR,
16,02,CH,EQ,C'')
  INREC BUILD=(05,1872,
   16,2,CHANGE=(3,C'',C'100',
  C'',C'010',
  C'',C'001'),
   NOMATCH=(C'000'))
  OUTFIL FNAMES=SORTOFT1,VTOF,
  OUTREC=(5,1872),
  INCLUDE=(16,2,CH,EQ,C'')
  OUTFIL FNAMES=SORTOFT2,VTOF,
  OUTREC=(5,1872),
  INCLUDE=(16,2,CH,EQ,C'')
  OUTFIL FNAMES=SORTOFT3,VTOF,
  OUTREC=(5,1872),
  INCLUDE=(16,2,CH,EQ,C'')
  OUTFIL FNAMES=REPORT,
 REMOVECC,NODETAIL,BUILD=(80X),
 TRAILER1=('NUM OF RECORDS FOR TYPE  : ',
TOT=(1873,1,ZD,M10,LENGTH=8),/,
   'NUM OF RECORDS FOR TYPE  : ',
TOT=(1874,1,ZD,M10,LENGTH=8),/,
   'NUM OF RECORDS FOR TYPE  : ',
TOT=(1875,1,ZD,M10,LENGTH=8))
/*




   Regards,
Eric Verwijs

Programmeur-analyste, RPC, SV et solutions de paiement - Direction générale de 
l'innovation, information et technologie
Emploi et Développement social Canada / Gouvernement du Canada
frederick.verw...@hrsdc-rhdcc.gc.ca
Téléphone 613-415-5465

Programmer Analyst, CPP, OAS, and Payment Solutions - Innovation, Information 
and Technology Branch
Employment and Social Development Canada / Government of Canada
frederick.verw...@hrsdc-rhdcc.gc.ca
Telephone 613-415-5465


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Sri 
h Kolusu
Sent: November 17, 2022 5:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ICETOOL / SORT capturing count of output records when using INCLUDE

Eric,

Here is another way to get the output counts into a single dataset.  I also 
used symbols , so that in future if you had to split for a different year, then 
you just need to change the SYMBOLS and the job will automatically take care of 
splitting.

//EXPORT SYMLIST=*
//SET YR01=00
//SET YR02=99
//SET YR03=98
/*
//STEP0100 EXEC PGM=SORT
//SYSOUT   DD SYSOUT=*
//SORTIN   DD *
ABC98
DEF98
GHI98
XXX00
YYY00
ZZZ99
//OUT1 DD SYSOUT=*
//OUT2 DD SYSOUT=*
//OUT3 DD SYSOUT=*
//REPORT   DD SYSOUT=*
//SYSINDD *,SYMBOLS=JCLONLY
  OPTION COPY
  INCLUDE COND=(12,02,CH,EQ,C'',OR,
12,02,CH,EQ,C'',OR,
12,02,CH,EQ,C'')

  INREC BUILD=(01,20,
   12,2,CHANGE=(3,C'',C'100',
  C'',C'010',
  C'',C'001'),
   NOMATCH=(C'000'))

  OUTFIL FNAMES=OUT1,INCLUDE=(12,02,CH,EQ,C''),BUILD=(01,20)
  OUTFIL FNAMES=OUT2,INCLUDE=(12,02,CH,EQ,C''),BUILD=(01,20)
  OUTFIL FNAMES=OUT3,INCLUDE=(12,02,CH,EQ,C''),BUILD=(01,20)

  OUTFIL FNAMES=REPORT,
  REMOVECC,NODETAIL,BUILD=(80X),
  TRAILER1=('NUM OF RECORDS FOR TYPE  : ',
 TOT=(21,1,ZD,M10,LENGTH=8),/,
'NUM OF RECORDS FOR TYPE  : ',
 TOT=(22,1,ZD,M10,LENGTH=8),/,
'NUM OF RECORDS FOR TYPE  : ',
 TOT=(23,1,ZD,M10,LENGTH=8))
/*

Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation



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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[Neil Johnson]

Yes, you can use the tnz zti emulator without SSL.

The following will force port 23 (the normal non-SSL tn3270 port) and zti will 
default to not use SSL:

zti {hostname}:23


You can also turn it off for any port:

zti
set SESSION_SSL 0
goto {hostname}[:{port}]


Create a ~/.ztirc file with the following to always turn it off:

set SESSION_SSL 0


This is a very common question and needs to be documented better.

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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[René Jansen]

I agree. In the case of orexx, it was the case that those parts were encumbered 
by intellectual property of unfriendly competitors; with this emulator, I 
cannot imagine that. This must be the mistaken ‘modernize’ lobby at work; on 
the other hand, at least it atmits the fact that you need a 3270 emulator.

René 

> On 18 Nov 2022, at 17:31, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
> 
> Open sourcing is good; dropping functionality in the process, not so much. 
> Reminds me of ooRexx, where IBM did not open source the OM and WPS classes 
> from OREXX.
> 
> 
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> 
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
> René Jansen [rene.vincent.jan...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 1:41 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?
> 
> Just installed TNZ (on an M1 Mac) - looking good, and the more emulators the 
> merrier. Thanks for posting this link, and the medium article, would not have 
> found out how to disarm SSL on my own easily.
> 
> I have to admit to mixed feelings seeing this: on the plus side, it is very 
> good to release this open source. On the minus side, it used to be a Rexx 
> related tool and was (afaik) not very generously given out to customers. I 
> remember having to script ehllapi in Rexx to do some of the things this can 
> do in a more simple way.
> 
> For me, the time to de-Rexx this could have been spent to add GDDM support. 
> But you don't hear me complain about free and open source. It is good to see 
> the rexx.py source, which implements some Rexx BIFSs in Python - I have 
> already saved that for useful usage.
> 
> Being a ZOC user on the Mac and Windows and a C3270 user on Linux, I have to 
> find out a few things. First and foremost, how I can get a LINEFEED on the 
> [Enter] key, SEND mapped to right-ctrl (or right COMMAND on the Mac) and 
> CLEAR to the right Option key on the Mac. Because this is how 3270 keyboards 
> were meant to be used and most people who complain to me about 3270 do not 
> know this.
> 
> Secondly, I did not figure out the copy/paste yet. This is an important 
> function that a lot of the commercial emulators did not get exactly right, 
> and is also a weaker point of C3270 (depending in which shell you run it).
> 
> The medium article refers to anti.py for documentation. Is there some more 
> doc I have to be aware of?
> 
> best regards,
> 
> René.
> 
>> On 17 Nov 2022, at 12:05, Dave Jones  wrote:
>> 
>> Now if it would only support GDDM style graphics orders like PCOMM does...
>> DJ
>> 
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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[Seymour J Metz]

Open sourcing is good; dropping functionality in the process, not so much. 
Reminds me of ooRexx, where IBM did not open source the OM and WPS classes from 
OREXX.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
René Jansen [rene.vincent.jan...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 1:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

Just installed TNZ (on an M1 Mac) - looking good, and the more emulators the 
merrier. Thanks for posting this link, and the medium article, would not have 
found out how to disarm SSL on my own easily.

I have to admit to mixed feelings seeing this: on the plus side, it is very 
good to release this open source. On the minus side, it used to be a Rexx 
related tool and was (afaik) not very generously given out to customers. I 
remember having to script ehllapi in Rexx to do some of the things this can do 
in a more simple way.

For me, the time to de-Rexx this could have been spent to add GDDM support. But 
you don't hear me complain about free and open source. It is good to see the 
rexx.py source, which implements some Rexx BIFSs in Python - I have already 
saved that for useful usage.

Being a ZOC user on the Mac and Windows and a C3270 user on Linux, I have to 
find out a few things. First and foremost, how I can get a LINEFEED on the 
[Enter] key, SEND mapped to right-ctrl (or right COMMAND on the Mac) and CLEAR 
to the right Option key on the Mac. Because this is how 3270 keyboards were 
meant to be used and most people who complain to me about 3270 do not know this.

Secondly, I did not figure out the copy/paste yet. This is an important 
function that a lot of the commercial emulators did not get exactly right, and 
is also a weaker point of C3270 (depending in which shell you run it).

The medium article refers to anti.py for documentation. Is there some more doc 
I have to be aware of?

best regards,

René.

> On 17 Nov 2022, at 12:05, Dave Jones  wrote:
>
> Now if it would only support GDDM style graphics orders like PCOMM does...
> DJ
>
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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[David Spiegel]

Hi Rene.
You said: "... Who actually wants to use Windows for work? ..."
Whether they want to or not, 90% of people use Windows for work.

Regards,
David

On 2022-11-18 13:12, René Jansen wrote:

RMFIII is my main use case. Not supporting GDDM is a case of self-fulfilling 
prophecy. Quality of 3270 terminal emulators has been going down since CM/2, 
with lots of products having funny and off color schemes, no or wrong terminal 
status symbols, terribly mixed-up key definitions, the wrong codepages as a 
default or make the terrible decision of blitting pixels over the network 
instead of tn3270 protocol.

I like Tom's Vista3270, but it is Windows only. Who actually wants to use 
Windows for work?  I don't miss it, and consider it technical debt ;-)

René.


On 17 Nov 2022, at 20:07, David Crayford  wrote:

On 18/11/22 00:05, Dave Jones wrote:

Now if it would only support GDDM style graphics orders like PCOMM does...

Who actually uses GDDM? I use Tom's Vista and I couldn't care less that it 
doesn't support GDDM. Rocket Terminal Emulator Web edition can serve thousands 
of 3270 sessions on a single Node.js server instance. Rocket know how to 
implement GDDM but didn't bother with BlueZone Web as it wasn't deemed 
necessary and having to support it was considered future technical debt.



DJ

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Re: Fred P. Brooks passed away

[Rupert Reynolds]

Also, I seem to remember he was a proponent of using 8 bits per byte on, to
make room for lower case letters as well as upper case. A worthy cause!

Roops

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Re: ICETOOL / SORT capturing count of output records when using INCLUDE

[Verwijs, Frederick F [NC]]

Thanks so much Kolusu. That's perfect and just what we need.

I really appreciate your speedy response.


   Regards, 
        Eric Verwijs 

Programmeur-analyste, RPC, SV et solutions de paiement - Direction générale de 
l'innovation, information et technologie
Emploi et Développement social Canada / Gouvernement du Canada
frederick.verw...@hrsdc-rhdcc.gc.ca 
Téléphone 613-415-5465

Programmer Analyst, CPP, OAS, and Payment Solutions - Innovation, Information 
and Technology Branch
Employment and Social Development Canada / Government of Canada
frederick.verw...@hrsdc-rhdcc.gc.ca 
Telephone 613-415-5465

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Sri 
h Kolusu
Sent: November 17, 2022 5:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ICETOOL / SORT capturing count of output records when using INCLUDE

Eric,

Here is another way to get the output counts into a single dataset.  I also 
used symbols , so that in future if you had to split for a different year, then 
you just need to change the SYMBOLS and the job will automatically take care of 
splitting.

//EXPORT SYMLIST=*
//SET YR01=00
//SET YR02=99
//SET YR03=98
/*
//STEP0100 EXEC PGM=SORT
//SYSOUT   DD SYSOUT=*
//SORTIN   DD *
ABC98
DEF98
GHI98
XXX00
YYY00
ZZZ99
//OUT1 DD SYSOUT=*
//OUT2 DD SYSOUT=*
//OUT3 DD SYSOUT=*
//REPORT   DD SYSOUT=*
//SYSINDD *,SYMBOLS=JCLONLY
  OPTION COPY
  INCLUDE COND=(12,02,CH,EQ,C'',OR,
12,02,CH,EQ,C'',OR,
12,02,CH,EQ,C'')

  INREC BUILD=(01,20,
   12,2,CHANGE=(3,C'',C'100',
  C'',C'010',
  C'',C'001'),
   NOMATCH=(C'000'))

  OUTFIL FNAMES=OUT1,INCLUDE=(12,02,CH,EQ,C''),BUILD=(01,20)
  OUTFIL FNAMES=OUT2,INCLUDE=(12,02,CH,EQ,C''),BUILD=(01,20)
  OUTFIL FNAMES=OUT3,INCLUDE=(12,02,CH,EQ,C''),BUILD=(01,20)

  OUTFIL FNAMES=REPORT,
  REMOVECC,NODETAIL,BUILD=(80X),
  TRAILER1=('NUM OF RECORDS FOR TYPE  : ',
 TOT=(21,1,ZD,M10,LENGTH=8),/,
'NUM OF RECORDS FOR TYPE  : ',
 TOT=(22,1,ZD,M10,LENGTH=8),/,
'NUM OF RECORDS FOR TYPE  : ',
 TOT=(23,1,ZD,M10,LENGTH=8))
/*

Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation



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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[Charles Mills]

Zero Trust (ZTA) which is the currently-favored paradigm says to treat all 
networks, internal and external, as untrusted. That would imply TLS.

You would not need "thousands of certificates": one per sysplex with TN3270 
would be sufficient. And certificate generation increasingly is automated.

Charles

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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[Dave Jones]

Well, after taking a quick look at the code, it does not appear to have a 
no-SSL mode. But I agree with Peter, it should have one.
DJ

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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[Farley, Peter]

It had better allow a no-SSL mode or it will be useless in shops with VPN 
networks for outside access and no SSL inside the VPN.

SSL from outside is necessary, inside is crazy paranoid.  Who's going to create 
and manage thousands of "certificates"?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Dave Jones
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 1:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

Can the SSL security feature be turned off completely?
Thanks.
DJ
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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[Dave Jones]

Can the SSL security feature be turned off completely?
Thanks.
DJ

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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[René Jansen]

ZOC is the best! Scriptable in REXX!

> On 18 Nov 2022, at 13:13, Joe Monk  wrote:
> 
> Dont forget ZOC!
> 
> Joe
> 
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 10:34 AM Sebastian Welton 
> wrote:

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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[René Jansen]

RMFIII is my main use case. Not supporting GDDM is a case of self-fulfilling 
prophecy. Quality of 3270 terminal emulators has been going down since CM/2, 
with lots of products having funny and off color schemes, no or wrong terminal 
status symbols, terribly mixed-up key definitions, the wrong codepages as a 
default or make the terrible decision of blitting pixels over the network 
instead of tn3270 protocol.

I like Tom's Vista3270, but it is Windows only. Who actually wants to use 
Windows for work?  I don't miss it, and consider it technical debt ;-) 

René.

> On 17 Nov 2022, at 20:07, David Crayford  wrote:
> 
> On 18/11/22 00:05, Dave Jones wrote:
>> Now if it would only support GDDM style graphics orders like PCOMM does...
> 
> Who actually uses GDDM? I use Tom's Vista and I couldn't care less that it 
> doesn't support GDDM. Rocket Terminal Emulator Web edition can serve 
> thousands of 3270 sessions on a single Node.js server instance. Rocket know 
> how to implement GDDM but didn't bother with BlueZone Web as it wasn't deemed 
> necessary and having to support it was considered future technical debt.
> 
> 
>> DJ
>> 
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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[Farley, Peter]

That URL did not work for me - I found it here:

https://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?appname=skmwww=897%2FENUS283-016=AN=CA=ibmsearch_a=ENUS283-016

HTH

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 12:35 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

EXTERNAL EMAIL

Object Code Only (OCO) 
 is a customer-hostile policy that IBM imposed in 1983, laden with broken 
> promises.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!Pmq-Hu2shLrAqCAuTRklolRsDQT-MesG2QXRRXzdPzsRWZIx_rgNtnUwt5dfxjlhgH7GPjOx1kQw87olLeJS8Q$
 


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
kekronbekron [02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 10:33 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

Hi Paul,

What's OCO?


- KB
--- Original Message ---
On Thursday, November 17th, 2022 at 7:52 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
<042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 19:06:03 +0800, David Crayford wrote:
>
> > Thanks for sharing. I just tried it and it's cool. Much better than 
> > c3270. Supports all the usual fruit. I spend a lot of time in shells 
> > and this is a great utility.
>
> c3270? A fairer comparison would be to x3270.
>
> Does it support screen capture as text (not inage)?
>
>
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 13:44:53 +, kekronbekron wrote:
>
> > It is cool indeed. I wish IBM did more to encourage enterprises (especially 
> > the mainframe domain) to use more open source.
> > It's quite obvious now that open source isn't broke man's software; it's a 
> > place for very talented people from around the world to solve common 
> > problems, in a way that a single vendor cannot.
> > Like how some folks write extremely performant this or that.
>
> That's somewhat the way things were a half-century ago, prior to OCO.
>
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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[Michael Oujesky]

Object Code Only.  I.e. executables only with no source code.

Michael

At 09:33 AM 11/18/2022, kekronbekron wrote:


Hi Paul,

What's OCO?


- KB
--- Original Message ---
On Thursday, November 17th, 2022 at 7:52 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
<042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:



> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 19:06:03 +0800, David Crayford wrote:
>
> > Thanks for sharing. I just tried it and it's cool. Much better than
> > c3270. Supports all the usual fruit. I spend a lot of time in shells and
> > this is a great utility.
>
> c3270? A fairer comparison would be to x3270.
>
> Does it support screen capture as text (not inage)?
>
>
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 13:44:53 +, kekronbekron wrote:
>
> > It is cool indeed. I wish IBM did more to encourage enterprises 
(especially the mainframe domain) to use more open source.
> > It's quite obvious now that open source isn't broke man's 
software; it's a place for very talented people from around the 
world to solve common problems, in a way that a single vendor cannot.

> > Like how some folks write extremely performant this or that.
>
> That's somewhat the way things were a half-century ago, prior to OCO.
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[Seymour J Metz]

Object Code Only (OCO) 
 is a customer-hostile policy that IBM imposed in 1983, laden with broken 
> promises.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
kekronbekron [02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 10:33 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

Hi Paul,

What's OCO?


- KB
--- Original Message ---
On Thursday, November 17th, 2022 at 7:52 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
<042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 19:06:03 +0800, David Crayford wrote:
>
> > Thanks for sharing. I just tried it and it's cool. Much better than
> > c3270. Supports all the usual fruit. I spend a lot of time in shells and
> > this is a great utility.
>
> c3270? A fairer comparison would be to x3270.
>
> Does it support screen capture as text (not inage)?
>
>
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 13:44:53 +, kekronbekron wrote:
>
> > It is cool indeed. I wish IBM did more to encourage enterprises (especially 
> > the mainframe domain) to use more open source.
> > It's quite obvious now that open source isn't broke man's software; it's a 
> > place for very talented people from around the world to solve common 
> > problems, in a way that a single vendor cannot.
> > Like how some folks write extremely performant this or that.
>
> That's somewhat the way things were a half-century ago, prior to OCO.
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: Fred P. Brooks passed away

[Bob Bridges]

What I remember best is his notion of a sort of surgical-team setup for
software design.  I suppose I'd be the tool-writer on such a team, although
I might not be a complete failure as the librarian.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* ...this job has been a LOT of fun. Here are just a few of the things
that, as a professional humor columnist, I have actually been paid to do: n)
I picked up my son, Rob, at his junior high school in the Oscar Mayer
Wienermobile. (Rob, now 24, claims he has forgiven me. Although, to be safe,
I'm still in the federal witness-protection program.)  -Dave Barry,
preparing for his 2005 sabbatical */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 09:24

It also illustrated blind spots; he attributed the disinterest in TESTRAN to
competition from TSO, which came later, rather than to a user hostile
design. My initial impression of TESTRAN was that it was inferior to its
equivalent in IBSYS/IBJOB.

OTOH, his comments on over staffing a late project were spot on.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Bob Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 8:42 AM

Somewhere in the early '80s my boss at the time passed around copies of "The
Mythical Man-Month" for all his people to read.  So often in such cases it's
a book that set the giver on fire and he's disappointed when no one else
gets the vision.  But for me at least, I was pleasantly surprised to find
how interesting it was, and it's had an influence on my thinking about
software development.

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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[Joe Monk]

Dont forget ZOC!

Joe

On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 10:34 AM Sebastian Welton 
wrote:

> >And now through consolidation, There's really only two TN3270 vendors
> left: Micro Focus and IBM!
> >
>
> I think people have mentioned that there are quite a few TN3270 clients
> still out there, on my (Windows) system I have the following installed as
> each has something I require on it or can only use it on certain systems:
>
> PCOM; - rather old version but I quite like it
> Vista TN3270 - emulator of choice
> wc3270 - the Windows version of x3270
> MochaSoft - the only emulator I've come across that doesn't have IND$FILE
> support but I have to have it
>
> As for other opensource, I think everyone knows the x3270 range but I've
> been using this one on Linux on and off for quite a while:
>
> https://github.com/PerryWerneck/pw3270
>
> pw3270 is a modern, GTK-based, completely free tn3270 emulator.
>
> Created originally for Banco do Brasil, it's now an official Brazilian
> Government Public Software project, and is used worldwide.
>
> Sebastian
>
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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[Sebastian Welton]

>And now through consolidation, There's really only two TN3270 vendors left: 
>Micro Focus and IBM!
>

I think people have mentioned that there are quite a few TN3270 clients still 
out there, on my (Windows) system I have the following installed as each has 
something I require on it or can only use it on certain systems:

PCOM; - rather old version but I quite like it
Vista TN3270 - emulator of choice
wc3270 - the Windows version of x3270
MochaSoft - the only emulator I've come across that doesn't have IND$FILE 
support but I have to have it

As for other opensource, I think everyone knows the x3270 range but I've been 
using this one on Linux on and off for quite a while:

https://github.com/PerryWerneck/pw3270

pw3270 is a modern, GTK-based, completely free tn3270 emulator.

Created originally for Banco do Brasil, it's now an official Brazilian 
Government Public Software project, and is used worldwide.

Sebastian

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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[David Spiegel]

Hi KB,
OCO=Object Code Only
That is, IBM's 1983 unintelligent decision to stop supplying Source Code.
Yet, schizophrenically, they support Open Source. SMH (for the last 39 
years).


Regards,
David

On 2022-11-18 10:33, kekronbekron wrote:

Hi Paul,

What's OCO?


- KB
--- Original Message ---
On Thursday, November 17th, 2022 at 7:52 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
<042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:



On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 19:06:03 +0800, David Crayford wrote:


Thanks for sharing. I just tried it and it's cool. Much better than
c3270. Supports all the usual fruit. I spend a lot of time in shells and
this is a great utility.

c3270? A fairer comparison would be to x3270.

Does it support screen capture as text (not inage)?


On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 13:44:53 +, kekronbekron wrote:


It is cool indeed. I wish IBM did more to encourage enterprises (especially the 
mainframe domain) to use more open source.
It's quite obvious now that open source isn't broke man's software; it's a 
place for very talented people from around the world to solve common problems, 
in a way that a single vendor cannot.
Like how some folks write extremely performant this or that.

That's somewhat the way things were a half-century ago, prior to OCO.

--
gil

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Re: TNZ 3270 Emulator: Any Experiences?

[kekronbekron]

Hi Paul,

What's OCO?


- KB
--- Original Message ---
On Thursday, November 17th, 2022 at 7:52 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
<042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 19:06:03 +0800, David Crayford wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for sharing. I just tried it and it's cool. Much better than
> > c3270. Supports all the usual fruit. I spend a lot of time in shells and
> > this is a great utility.
> 
> c3270? A fairer comparison would be to x3270.
> 
> Does it support screen capture as text (not inage)?
> 
> 
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 13:44:53 +, kekronbekron wrote:
> 
> > It is cool indeed. I wish IBM did more to encourage enterprises (especially 
> > the mainframe domain) to use more open source.
> > It's quite obvious now that open source isn't broke man's software; it's a 
> > place for very talented people from around the world to solve common 
> > problems, in a way that a single vendor cannot.
> > Like how some folks write extremely performant this or that.
> 
> That's somewhat the way things were a half-century ago, prior to OCO.
> 
> --
> gil
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: Fred P. Brooks passed away

[Seymour J Metz]

It also illustrated blind spots; he attributed the disinterest in TESTRAN to 
competition from TSO, which came later, rather than to a user hostile design. 
My initial impression of TESTRAN was that it was inferior to its equivalent in 
IBSYS/IBJOB.

OTOH, his comments on over staffing a late project were spot on.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob 
Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 8:42 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Fred P. Brooks passed away

Somewhere in the early '80s my boss at the time passed around copies of "The 
Mythical Man-Month" for all his people to read.  So often in such cases it's a 
book that set the giver on fire and he's disappointed when no one else gets the 
vision.  But for me at least, I was pleasantly surprised to find how 
interesting it was, and it's had an influence on my thinking about software 
development.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* When a man is getting better he understands more and more clearly the evil 
that is still left in him.  When a man is getting worse, he understands his own 
badness less and less.  A moderately bad man knows he is not very good; a 
thoroughly bad man thinks he is all right.  This is common sense, really.  You 
understand sleep when you are awake, not while you are sleeping.  You can see 
mistakes in arithmetic when your mind is working properly; while you are making 
them you cannot see them.  You can understand the nature of drunkenness when 
you are sober, not when you are drunk.  Good people know about both good and 
evil; bad people do not know about either.  -C S Lewis, _Christian Behavior_ */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Support, DUNNIT SYSTEMS LTD.
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 04:46

As of this posting, Wikipedia is still not updated.

https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFred_Brooksdata=05%7C01%7Csmetz3%40gmu.edu%7C3bdc1125de2b41769c8608dac96ada96%7C9e857255df574c47a0c00546460380cb%7C0%7C0%7C638043758029048520%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7Csdata=Ugr3wNBo87kGRVsIlyftQ2fWpXxq9WAAWszjnVXrG3Q%3Dreserved=0

Twitter:

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Re: Fred P. Brooks passed away

[Bob Bridges]

Somewhere in the early '80s my boss at the time passed around copies of "The 
Mythical Man-Month" for all his people to read.  So often in such cases it's a 
book that set the giver on fire and he's disappointed when no one else gets the 
vision.  But for me at least, I was pleasantly surprised to find how 
interesting it was, and it's had an influence on my thinking about software 
development.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* When a man is getting better he understands more and more clearly the evil 
that is still left in him.  When a man is getting worse, he understands his own 
badness less and less.  A moderately bad man knows he is not very good; a 
thoroughly bad man thinks he is all right.  This is common sense, really.  You 
understand sleep when you are awake, not while you are sleeping.  You can see 
mistakes in arithmetic when your mind is working properly; while you are making 
them you cannot see them.  You can understand the nature of drunkenness when 
you are sober, not when you are drunk.  Good people know about both good and 
evil; bad people do not know about either.  -C S Lewis, _Christian Behavior_ */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Support, DUNNIT SYSTEMS LTD.
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 04:46

As of this posting, Wikipedia is still not updated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Brooks

Twitter:

https://twitter.com/SteveBellovin/status/1593414068634734592

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Re: Fred P. Brooks passed away

[Rupert Reynolds]

Sad news.

S/360, MVS and The Mythical Man-Month come to mind immediately.

Roops


On Fri, 18 Nov 2022, 09:45 Support, DUNNIT SYSTEMS LTD., <
supp...@dunnitsys.com> wrote:

> As of this posting, Wikipedia is still not updated.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Brooks
>
>

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Fred P. Brooks passed away

[Support, DUNNIT SYSTEMS LTD.]

As of this posting, Wikipedia is still not updated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Brooks

Twitter:

https://twitter.com/SteveBellovin/status/1593414068634734592

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