Re: Destination z: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013
Maybe you didn't read to the end, last sentence: And finally, a useful if-all-else-fails suggestion from another experienced practitioner: Outlast bad management. ;-) More seriously, there's obviously no quick fix for bad/clueless/toxic management. Not profound ideas, but do the best you can under the circumstances, (try to) understand why things are the way they are, (try to) communicate and inculcate best practices, (try to) change jobs, retire. Shmuel Metz said: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013 http://destinationz.org/Mainframe-Solution/Business-Case/Resolve-to-Support-and-Advance-Your-Mainframe-Care.aspx A couple of comments. Sometimes there are institutional obstacles to practices that would be otherwise desirable, e.g., management that opposes code reviews, organizations that compartmentalize. What are the strategies for dealing with those? Reminiscing is not always nostalgia; sometimes it is horror stories about the good old days. -- Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc. g...@gabegold.com 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 (703) 204-0433 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Destination z: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013
Gabe and Shmuel, I have had some of the best experiences and made friends in the horror stories places I worked. Adversity seems to be a bonding element IMHO Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Dec 21, 2012, at 9:38 AM, Gabe Goldberg g...@gabegold.com wrote: Maybe you didn't read to the end, last sentence: And finally, a useful if-all-else-fails suggestion from another experienced practitioner: Outlast bad management. ;-) More seriously, there's obviously no quick fix for bad/clueless/toxic management. Not profound ideas, but do the best you can under the circumstances, (try to) understand why things are the way they are, (try to) communicate and inculcate best practices, (try to) change jobs, retire. Shmuel Metz said: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013 http://destinationz.org/Mainframe-Solution/Business-Case/Resolve-to-Support-and-Advance-Your-Mainframe-Care.aspx A couple of comments. Sometimes there are institutional obstacles to practices that would be otherwise desirable, e.g., management that opposes code reviews, organizations that compartmentalize. What are the strategies for dealing with those? Reminiscing is not always nostalgia; sometimes it is horror stories about the good old days. -- Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc. g...@gabegold.com 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 (703) 204-0433 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Destination z: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013
Gave, Also experience some bad management here and aboard. Same common thread, Managers who don't listen to highly qualified techies. Those that do, are understanding of the techie and what they deal with. Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:50 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: Gabe and Shmuel, I have had some of the best experiences and made friends in the horror stories places I worked. Adversity seems to be a bonding element IMHO Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Dec 21, 2012, at 9:38 AM, Gabe Goldberg g...@gabegold.com wrote: Maybe you didn't read to the end, last sentence: And finally, a useful if-all-else-fails suggestion from another experienced practitioner: Outlast bad management. ;-) More seriously, there's obviously no quick fix for bad/clueless/toxic management. Not profound ideas, but do the best you can under the circumstances, (try to) understand why things are the way they are, (try to) communicate and inculcate best practices, (try to) change jobs, retire. Shmuel Metz said: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013 http://destinationz.org/Mainframe-Solution/Business-Case/Resolve-to-Support-and-Advance-Your-Mainframe-Care.aspx A couple of comments. Sometimes there are institutional obstacles to practices that would be otherwise desirable, e.g., management that opposes code reviews, organizations that compartmentalize. What are the strategies for dealing with those? Reminiscing is not always nostalgia; sometimes it is horror stories about the good old days. -- Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc. g...@gabegold.com 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 (703) 204-0433 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Destination z: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013
Scott: A *LONG* time ago we had a company here in town that was FAMOUS for screwing its people and was constantly making changes to MVS via zaps. They also had a high turnover in its people (sysprogs). A headhunter approached me and tried to get me to go out for an interview and I refused in fact the argument got so heated that I shut the headhunter down and basically fired him. A few years later one of the sysprogs quit where I worked and went out there to work and about a month later he was back asking for his own job back (which he got). I never asked him why but he just let us know the place was a zoo, Ed On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Scott Ford wrote: Gave, Also experience some bad management here and aboard. Same common thread, Managers who don't listen to highly qualified techies. Those that do, are understanding of the techie and what they deal with. Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:50 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: Gabe and Shmuel, I have had some of the best experiences and made friends in the horror stories places I worked. Adversity seems to be a bonding element IMHO Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Dec 21, 2012, at 9:38 AM, Gabe Goldberg g...@gabegold.com wrote: Maybe you didn't read to the end, last sentence: And finally, a useful if-all-else-fails suggestion from another experienced practitioner: Outlast bad management. ;-) More seriously, there's obviously no quick fix for bad/clueless/ toxic management. Not profound ideas, but do the best you can under the circumstances, (try to) understand why things are the way they are, (try to) communicate and inculcate best practices, (try to) change jobs, retire. Shmuel Metz said: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013 http://destinationz.org/Mainframe-Solution/Business-Case/ Resolve-to-Support-and-Advance-Your-Mainframe-Care.aspx A couple of comments. Sometimes there are institutional obstacles to practices that would be otherwise desirable, e.g., management that opposes code reviews, organizations that compartmentalize. What are the strategies for dealing with those? Reminiscing is not always nostalgia; sometimes it is horror stories about the good old days. -- Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc. g...@gabegold.com 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 (703) 204-0433 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Destination z: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013
Ed, I working as a Network Sysprog and MVSer as a consultant for 20+ years so I work a ton of places in NYC. Ran into a lot of really good people and of course my fair share of not so good people. So of lot of us consulting ran into each other and new the *dope* on the shops we worked in. Also the same applied for the project leads we worked for. I did work for IBM GSS, so of course ran into a lot of really nice IBMers. But the big issue I ran into was jealousy over what we made as consults ,that was very nasty , coming in as a hired gun. I learned to keep my mouth shut and swallow a lot of comments. Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Dec 21, 2012, at 2:09 PM, Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net wrote: Scott: A *LONG* time ago we had a company here in town that was FAMOUS for screwing its people and was constantly making changes to MVS via zaps. They also had a high turnover in its people (sysprogs). A headhunter approached me and tried to get me to go out for an interview and I refused in fact the argument got so heated that I shut the headhunter down and basically fired him. A few years later one of the sysprogs quit where I worked and went out there to work and about a month later he was back asking for his own job back (which he got). I never asked him why but he just let us know the place was a zoo, Ed On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Scott Ford wrote: Gave, Also experience some bad management here and aboard. Same common thread, Managers who don't listen to highly qualified techies. Those that do, are understanding of the techie and what they deal with. Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:50 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: Gabe and Shmuel, I have had some of the best experiences and made friends in the horror stories places I worked. Adversity seems to be a bonding element IMHO Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Dec 21, 2012, at 9:38 AM, Gabe Goldberg g...@gabegold.com wrote: Maybe you didn't read to the end, last sentence: And finally, a useful if-all-else-fails suggestion from another experienced practitioner: Outlast bad management. ;-) More seriously, there's obviously no quick fix for bad/clueless/toxic management. Not profound ideas, but do the best you can under the circumstances, (try to) understand why things are the way they are, (try to) communicate and inculcate best practices, (try to) change jobs, retire. Shmuel Metz said: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013 http://destinationz.org/Mainframe-Solution/Business-Case/Resolve-to-Support-and-Advance-Your-Mainframe-Care.aspx A couple of comments. Sometimes there are institutional obstacles to practices that would be otherwise desirable, e.g., management that opposes code reviews, organizations that compartmentalize. What are the strategies for dealing with those? Reminiscing is not always nostalgia; sometimes it is horror stories about the good old days. -- Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc. g...@gabegold.com 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 (703) 204-0433 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Destination z: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013
Thanks; agreed. And I did say, Understand application and system design, architecture, testing and usage. Contrary to the old joke, users don't exist to test system programmers' system programs. Systems exist to perform useful work, so understanding the implementation food chain helps get your job done. I've known too many systems people who disparaged applications developers and applications -- that's silly, hostile, and career-limiting. And it's backwards in relative importance of applications/systems to organizations! The article's orientation was somewhat shaped by my perception of the Destination z website being more for systems people than applications developers and my own (mostly) systems background. So I'll save the idea of application developer resolutions for another article, maybe a year from now. While -- as you note -- many tips apply to both areas, each has unique aspects. So I'll expect you to suggest application development tips! Farley, Peter x23353 wrote: Not a bad article Gabe, but I'd like to point out that the maxims and advice you list are applicable just as much to Application programmers as to System programmers. We, too, need to be open to new technologies as well as constantly updating and sharing our current skills and knowledge base. And documenting what we do is just as important as the Systems gurus documenting their work, and for the same reasons. Etc., etc. -- Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc. g...@gabegold.com 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 (703) 204-0433 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Destination z: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013
In 50d1ef9c.1020...@gabegold.com, on 12/19/2012 at 11:47 AM, Gabe Goldberg g...@gabegold.com said: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013 http://destinationz.org/Mainframe-Solution/Business-Case/Resolve-to-Support-and-Advance-Your-Mainframe-Care.aspx A couple of comments. Sometimes there are institutional obstacles to practices that would be otherwise desirable, e.g., management that opposes code reviews, organizations that compartmentalize. What are the strategies for dealing with those? Reminiscing is not always nostalgia; sometimes it is horror stories about the good old days. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Destination z: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013
Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013 http://destinationz.org/Mainframe-Solution/Business-Case/Resolve-to-Support-and-Advance-Your-Mainframe-Care.aspx Or http://ow.ly/gclRS Thanks for suggestions! -- Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc. g...@gabegold.com 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 (703) 204-0433 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Destination z: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013
Not a bad article Gabe, but I'd like to point out that the maxims and advice you list are applicable just as much to Application programmers as to System programmers. We, too, need to be open to new technologies as well as constantly updating and sharing our current skills and knowledge base. And documenting what we do is just as important as the Systens gurus documenting their work, and for the same reasons. Etc., etc. Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Gabe Goldberg Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:47 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Destination z: Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013 Career Advice: Resolve to support and advance your mainframe career in 2013 http://destinationz.org/Mainframe-Solution/Business-Case/Resolve-to-Support-and-Advance-Your-Mainframe-Care.aspx Or http://ow.ly/gclRS Thanks for suggestions! -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
