Re: What happens with no working SE?

[linda golding]

Yeah . I got it now .

Thank you Skip and Radoslaw for the clarification .


Linda


On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 10:53 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson <jesse1.robin...@sce.com>
wrote:

> To reiterate Radoslaw's point, STP does not steer the clock. Rather STP
> steers--synchronizes--the internal clocks of all connected CECs. STP itself
> may or not be externally steered. In our case, we take an SNTP signal from
> the corporate time server that is used to synchronize the entire enterprise
> including Windows, UNIX, and all the other critters in the zoo. If SNTP
> failed, most everyone would drift apart to some extent, but STP would still
> keep connected CECs in sync with each other--a basic requirement for
> parallel sysplex.
>
> .
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-302-7535 Office
> robin...@sce.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of linda golding
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 2:06 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: What happens with no working SE?
>
> Am curious . This is what i could find looking at the enhancements . Since
> you say STP doesn't steer the clock , i would like to know how this works
> these days .
>
> *http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/advantages/pso/stp/ntp.html
> <http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/advantages/pso/stp/ntp.html>*
>
>
> *Service Element (SE) Time Accuracy*
> As a continuation of the zEnterprise 196 (z196) timing accuracy
> improvements for an STP-only CTN, namely, SE/CPC hourly clock steer and
> synch, the zEnterprise EC12 and zEnterprise BC12 have expanded these
> enhancements by allowing the SE to access an STP panel-configured External
> Time Source (ETS), even when the CPC is powered off or has not been IMLed.
> The SE achieves this by invoking the ETS-configured NTP servers to obtain
> the ETS-SE time difference and steers the SE clock towards the ETS clock.
> During IML, the more accurate SE clock time transfers to the CPC clock,
> maximizing the CPC timing accuracy.
>
> This feature is available exclusively on zEnterprise EC12 and zEnterprise
> BC12.
>
> Thanks ,
>
> Linda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 1:57 PM, R.S. <r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl>
> wrote:
>
> > W dniu 2016-04-18 o 23:19, linda golding pisze:
> >
> >> One of two SE failed means you can peform everything you want,
> >> including STP. Maybe STP setup would be impossible (I haven't
> >> checked), but I'd bet it is also possible.
> >> I've been working with single SE (primary failed) for some time. It
> >> wasn't my dream, but I could live with it. >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >> I thought STP code runs on the support element . Access to the NTP
> >> server from the CTS is initiated and controlled by the Support Element.
> >>
> >> In that case , a sysplex would die when support element is not
> available .
> >>
> > NTP is not STP.
> > STP is managed from HMC/SE but it doesn't mean the SE is steering the
> > clock.
> > NTP can be used for "wall clock" time adjustment, but STP will work
> > without NTP at all or with NTP failure.
> > Last, but not least: multi-CPC STP configuration will survive any of
> > the CPC failure. Not only SE, but whole CPC.
> >
> > --
> > Radoslaw Skorupka
> > Lodz, Poland
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: What happens with no working SE?

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

To reiterate Radoslaw's point, STP does not steer the clock. Rather STP 
steers--synchronizes--the internal clocks of all connected CECs. STP itself may 
or not be externally steered. In our case, we take an SNTP signal from the 
corporate time server that is used to synchronize the entire enterprise 
including Windows, UNIX, and all the other critters in the zoo. If SNTP failed, 
most everyone would drift apart to some extent, but STP would still keep 
connected CECs in sync with each other--a basic requirement for parallel 
sysplex.  

.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of linda golding
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 2:06 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: What happens with no working SE?

Am curious . This is what i could find looking at the enhancements . Since you 
say STP doesn't steer the clock , i would like to know how this works these 
days .

*http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/advantages/pso/stp/ntp.html
<http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/advantages/pso/stp/ntp.html>*


*Service Element (SE) Time Accuracy*
As a continuation of the zEnterprise 196 (z196) timing accuracy improvements 
for an STP-only CTN, namely, SE/CPC hourly clock steer and synch, the 
zEnterprise EC12 and zEnterprise BC12 have expanded these enhancements by 
allowing the SE to access an STP panel-configured External Time Source (ETS), 
even when the CPC is powered off or has not been IMLed.
The SE achieves this by invoking the ETS-configured NTP servers to obtain the 
ETS-SE time difference and steers the SE clock towards the ETS clock.
During IML, the more accurate SE clock time transfers to the CPC clock, 
maximizing the CPC timing accuracy.

This feature is available exclusively on zEnterprise EC12 and zEnterprise BC12.

Thanks ,

Linda







On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 1:57 PM, R.S. <r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl>
wrote:

> W dniu 2016-04-18 o 23:19, linda golding pisze:
>
>> One of two SE failed means you can peform everything you want, 
>> including STP. Maybe STP setup would be impossible (I haven't 
>> checked), but I'd bet it is also possible.
>> I've been working with single SE (primary failed) for some time. It 
>> wasn't my dream, but I could live with it. >>>>
>>
>>
>> I thought STP code runs on the support element . Access to the NTP 
>> server from the CTS is initiated and controlled by the Support Element.
>>
>> In that case , a sysplex would die when support element is not available .
>>
> NTP is not STP.
> STP is managed from HMC/SE but it doesn't mean the SE is steering the 
> clock.
> NTP can be used for "wall clock" time adjustment, but STP will work 
> without NTP at all or with NTP failure.
> Last, but not least: multi-CPC STP configuration will survive any of 
> the CPC failure. Not only SE, but whole CPC.
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland


--
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Re: What happens with no working SE?

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Neither rhetorical nor humorous. How about hypothetical? We did not 'power 
down' an SE. It failed--as weenie-ware is wont to do. It got fixed within a 
reasonable period, so no harm, no foul. I was merely wondering WHAT-IF the 
second SE failed--as weenie-ware is wont to do--before the first one got 
repaired.

Rob Schramm's post comes at an interesting juncture. We happen to have had 
another SE failure. This one cannot simply be 'fixed'. It appears that a POR is 
required to resync the surviving SE with the CEC. Or vice versa. Looks like I 
have some meat for my SHARE Bit Bucket slot in Atlanta. ;-)

.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Rob Schramm
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 6:42 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: What happens with no working SE?

Ok.. So how many people leave their "l am down to one SE z machine" powered 
down for lengthy periods of time that is not a DR machine? Or is running 
production on a single SE machine for a long time using STP?

I am hoping that my questions are somewhat rhetorical or humorous and 
completely lacking in the "Homer Simpson duooh!!" head slap.

It would be like running an older multi-CEC sysplex with a single ETR expecting 
no single point of failure.

Rob Schramm

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 5:06 AM linda golding <lindagolding...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Am curious . This is what i could find looking at the enhancements . 
> Since you say STP doesn't steer the clock , i would like to know how 
> this works these days .
>
> *http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/advantages/pso/stp/ntp.html
> <http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/advantages/pso/stp/ntp.html>*
>
>
> *Service Element (SE) Time Accuracy*
> As a continuation of the zEnterprise 196 (z196) timing accuracy 
> improvements for an STP-only CTN, namely, SE/CPC hourly clock steer 
> and synch, the zEnterprise EC12 and zEnterprise BC12 have expanded 
> these enhancements by allowing the SE to access an STP 
> panel-configured External Time Source (ETS), even when the CPC is powered off 
> or has not been IMLed.
> The SE achieves this by invoking the ETS-configured NTP servers to 
> obtain the ETS-SE time difference and steers the SE clock towards the ETS 
> clock.
> During IML, the more accurate SE clock time transfers to the CPC 
> clock, maximizing the CPC timing accuracy.
>
> This feature is available exclusively on zEnterprise EC12 and 
> zEnterprise BC12.
>
> Thanks ,
>
> Linda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 1:57 PM, R.S. <r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl>
> wrote:
>
> > W dniu 2016-04-18 o 23:19, linda golding pisze:
> >
> >> One of two SE failed means you can peform everything you want, 
> >> including STP. Maybe STP setup would be impossible (I haven't 
> >> checked), but I'd
> bet
> >> it is also possible.
> >> I've been working with single SE (primary failed) for some time. It
> wasn't
> >> my dream, but I could live with it. >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >> I thought STP code runs on the support element . Access to the NTP
> server
> >> from the CTS is initiated and controlled by the Support Element.
> >>
> >> In that case , a sysplex would die when support element is not
> available .
> >>
> > NTP is not STP.
> > STP is managed from HMC/SE but it doesn't mean the SE is steering 
> > the clock.
> > NTP can be used for "wall clock" time adjustment, but STP will work 
> > without NTP at all or with NTP failure.
> > Last, but not least: multi-CPC STP configuration will survive any of 
> > the CPC failure. Not only SE, but whole CPC.
> >
> > --
> > Radoslaw Skorupka
> > Lodz, Poland


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: What happens with no working SE?

[Rob Schramm]

Ok.. So how many people leave their "l am down to one SE z machine" powered
down for lengthy periods of time that is not a DR machine? Or is running
production on a single SE machine for a long time using STP?

I am hoping that my questions are somewhat rhetorical or humorous and
completely lacking in the "Homer Simpson duooh!!" head slap.

It would be like running an older multi-CEC sysplex with a single ETR
expecting no single point of failure.

Rob Schramm

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 5:06 AM linda golding 
wrote:

> Am curious . This is what i could find looking at the enhancements . Since
> you say STP doesn't steer the clock , i would like to know how this works
> these days .
>
> *http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/advantages/pso/stp/ntp.html
> *
>
>
> *Service Element (SE) Time Accuracy*
> As a continuation of the zEnterprise 196 (z196) timing accuracy
> improvements for an STP-only CTN, namely, SE/CPC hourly clock steer and
> synch, the zEnterprise EC12 and zEnterprise BC12 have expanded these
> enhancements by allowing the SE to access an STP panel-configured External
> Time Source (ETS), even when the CPC is powered off or has not been IMLed.
> The SE achieves this by invoking the ETS-configured NTP servers to obtain
> the ETS-SE time difference and steers the SE clock towards the ETS clock.
> During IML, the more accurate SE clock time transfers to the CPC clock,
> maximizing the CPC timing accuracy.
>
> This feature is available exclusively on zEnterprise EC12 and zEnterprise
> BC12.
>
> Thanks ,
>
> Linda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 1:57 PM, R.S. 
> wrote:
>
> > W dniu 2016-04-18 o 23:19, linda golding pisze:
> >
> >> One of two SE failed means you can peform everything you want, including
> >> STP. Maybe STP setup would be impossible (I haven't checked), but I'd
> bet
> >> it is also possible.
> >> I've been working with single SE (primary failed) for some time. It
> wasn't
> >> my dream, but I could live with it. 
> >>
> >>
> >> I thought STP code runs on the support element . Access to the NTP
> server
> >> from the CTS is initiated and controlled by the Support Element.
> >>
> >> In that case , a sysplex would die when support element is not
> available .
> >>
> > NTP is not STP.
> > STP is managed from HMC/SE but it doesn't mean the SE is steering the
> > clock.
> > NTP can be used for "wall clock" time adjustment, but STP will work
> > without NTP at all or with NTP failure.
> > Last, but not least: multi-CPC STP configuration will survive any of the
> > CPC failure. Not only SE, but whole CPC.
> >
> > --
> > Radoslaw Skorupka
> > Lodz, Poland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku
> > przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być
> > jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie
> jesteś
> > adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej
> > przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie,
> kopiowanie,
> > rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie
> > zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo,
> > prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale
> > usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub
> > zapisane na dysku.
> >
> > This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is
> > intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only
> be
> > received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties.
> If
> > you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee
> > authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any
> > dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is
> > legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by
> > mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility
> in
> > your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any
> > copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.
> >
> > mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,
> > www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl
> > Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego
> > Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP:
> > 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy
> mBanku
> > S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access 

Re: What happens with no working SE?

[linda golding]

Am curious . This is what i could find looking at the enhancements . Since
you say STP doesn't steer the clock , i would like to know how this works
these days .

*http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/advantages/pso/stp/ntp.html
*


*Service Element (SE) Time Accuracy*
As a continuation of the zEnterprise 196 (z196) timing accuracy
improvements for an STP-only CTN, namely, SE/CPC hourly clock steer and
synch, the zEnterprise EC12 and zEnterprise BC12 have expanded these
enhancements by allowing the SE to access an STP panel-configured External
Time Source (ETS), even when the CPC is powered off or has not been IMLed.
The SE achieves this by invoking the ETS-configured NTP servers to obtain
the ETS-SE time difference and steers the SE clock towards the ETS clock.
During IML, the more accurate SE clock time transfers to the CPC clock,
maximizing the CPC timing accuracy.

This feature is available exclusively on zEnterprise EC12 and zEnterprise
BC12.

Thanks ,

Linda







On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 1:57 PM, R.S. 
wrote:

> W dniu 2016-04-18 o 23:19, linda golding pisze:
>
>> One of two SE failed means you can peform everything you want, including
>> STP. Maybe STP setup would be impossible (I haven't checked), but I'd bet
>> it is also possible.
>> I've been working with single SE (primary failed) for some time. It wasn't
>> my dream, but I could live with it. 
>>
>>
>> I thought STP code runs on the support element . Access to the NTP server
>> from the CTS is initiated and controlled by the Support Element.
>>
>> In that case , a sysplex would die when support element is not available .
>>
> NTP is not STP.
> STP is managed from HMC/SE but it doesn't mean the SE is steering the
> clock.
> NTP can be used for "wall clock" time adjustment, but STP will work
> without NTP at all or with NTP failure.
> Last, but not least: multi-CPC STP configuration will survive any of the
> CPC failure. Not only SE, but whole CPC.
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku
> przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być
> jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś
> adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej
> przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie,
> rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie
> zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo,
> prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale
> usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub
> zapisane na dysku.
>
> This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is
> intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be
> received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If
> you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee
> authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any
> dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is
> legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by
> mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in
> your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any
> copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive.
>
> mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,
> www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl
> Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego
> Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP:
> 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku
> S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: What happens with no working SE?

[R.S.]

W dniu 2016-04-18 o 23:19, linda golding pisze:

One of two SE failed means you can peform everything you want, including
STP. Maybe STP setup would be impossible (I haven't checked), but I'd bet
it is also possible.
I've been working with single SE (primary failed) for some time. It wasn't
my dream, but I could live with it. 


I thought STP code runs on the support element . Access to the NTP server
from the CTS is initiated and controlled by the Support Element.

In that case , a sysplex would die when support element is not available .

NTP is not STP.
STP is managed from HMC/SE but it doesn't mean the SE is steering the clock.
NTP can be used for "wall clock" time adjustment, but STP will work 
without NTP at all or with NTP failure.
Last, but not least: multi-CPC STP configuration will survive any of the 
CPC failure. Not only SE, but whole CPC.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






---
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie 
jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be 
received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you 
are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to 
forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, 
distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be 
punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender 
immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete 
permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to 
hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, 
www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl
Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru 
Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. 
Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości 
wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: What happens with no working SE?

[linda golding]

One of two SE failed means you can peform everything you want, including
STP. Maybe STP setup would be impossible (I haven't checked), but I'd bet
it is also possible.
I've been working with single SE (primary failed) for some time. It wasn't
my dream, but I could live with it. 


I thought STP code runs on the support element . Access to the NTP server
from the CTS is initiated and controlled by the Support Element.

In that case , a sysplex would die when support element is not available .







On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 9:21 PM, Jim Mulder  wrote:

> > We happen to have a failed SE at the moment. It's the 'alternate',
> > so no immediate impact at all. But the question has been raised,
> > what would happen if the primary failed also? I remember a case
> > years ago (1990s) when there was only one SE in a box, and it went
> > bad. Just meant that we could not IPL or make configuration changes
> > in the meantime, but it did not affect any running system. In those
> > days we had external timer boxes (9370?), so the sysplex was
> > unaffected. Now we have STP, which I believe is a component of the SE.
> >
> > If a modern box had no working SE for some period of time, would the
> > sysplex across multiple CECs be affected?
>
>   On the old bipolar machines, the SE was IPLed (which they referred
> to as a "warmstart") during each transition between Single Image and
> Physically Partitioned mode.  MVS would hang when it tried to do
> things which synchronously interfaced with the SE while it was
> warmstarting.
>
>  One thing which could cause this was an ACR.  MVS used to
> spin waiting for the SE to deconfigure the ACRed CPU.  We eventually
> changed the MVS code to do that asynchronously.
>
>  SIGP Restart would also hang on the bipolar machines while the SE
> was warmstarting.
>
>  The advent of LPAR reduced MVS's interactions with the SE, because
> LPAR virtualized the operating system's interface to the SE, and some
> of the interactions are now handled by LPAR with no SE involvement.
>
>   It has been quite a few years since I have seen a dump of
> an MVS hang due to the SE being unavailable.
>
> Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY
>
>
>
>
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Re: What happens with no working SE?

[Jim Mulder]

> We happen to have a failed SE at the moment. It's the 'alternate', 
> so no immediate impact at all. But the question has been raised, 
> what would happen if the primary failed also? I remember a case 
> years ago (1990s) when there was only one SE in a box, and it went 
> bad. Just meant that we could not IPL or make configuration changes 
> in the meantime, but it did not affect any running system. In those 
> days we had external timer boxes (9370?), so the sysplex was 
> unaffected. Now we have STP, which I believe is a component of the SE.
> 
> If a modern box had no working SE for some period of time, would the
> sysplex across multiple CECs be affected?

  On the old bipolar machines, the SE was IPLed (which they referred
to as a "warmstart") during each transition between Single Image and
Physically Partitioned mode.  MVS would hang when it tried to do 
things which synchronously interfaced with the SE while it was 
warmstarting.

 One thing which could cause this was an ACR.  MVS used to 
spin waiting for the SE to deconfigure the ACRed CPU.  We eventually
changed the MVS code to do that asynchronously.

 SIGP Restart would also hang on the bipolar machines while the SE 
was warmstarting. 
 
 The advent of LPAR reduced MVS's interactions with the SE, because
LPAR virtualized the operating system's interface to the SE, and some
of the interactions are now handled by LPAR with no SE involvement. 

  It has been quite a few years since I have seen a dump of
an MVS hang due to the SE being unavailable. 
 
Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY




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Re: What happens with no working SE?

[Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM]

You have the same situation, when IBM installs microcode updates. Both HMCs are 
locked so you can't IPL or do any other things. Also the BCPII interface is 
blocked. 
IBM don't tell you with that many words, but by strongly pulling out the 
consequences of an upgrade action few years ago, we finally got that 
information.

Kees.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: 24 March, 2016 15:37
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What happens with no working SE?

Gizmo is fixed now. No impact during SE replacement, which took longer than I 
expected. As is often the case, CEC was in Service mode the whole time, which 
would have been a problem if we had needed an emergency IPL or some such.

I just checked that the STP screens are available from the Workplace on HMC, 
that is, no SOO to SE required. However, you can manage Activation profiles 
from there too, and we all know that SE function is required for that. My main 
concern was for STP function itself. Without timing across CECs, a sysplex 
dies. 

.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of R.S.
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 3:11 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: What happens with no working SE?

No SE at all means your z/OS (or any other) system is still working, but no HW 
changes are possible, no IPL, many HW command will fail, etc. Deep sh*t.

One of two SE failed means you can peform everything you want, including STP. 
Maybe STP setup would be impossible (I haven't checked), but I'd bet it is also 
possible.
I've been working with single SE (primary failed) for some time. It wasn't my 
dream, but I could live with it.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: What happens with no working SE?

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Gizmo is fixed now. No impact during SE replacement, which took longer than I 
expected. As is often the case, CEC was in Service mode the whole time, which 
would have been a problem if we had needed an emergency IPL or some such.

I just checked that the STP screens are available from the Workplace on HMC, 
that is, no SOO to SE required. However, you can manage Activation profiles 
from there too, and we all know that SE function is required for that. My main 
concern was for STP function itself. Without timing across CECs, a sysplex 
dies. 

.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of R.S.
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 3:11 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: What happens with no working SE?

No SE at all means your z/OS (or any other) system is still working, but no HW 
changes are possible, no IPL, many HW command will fail, etc. Deep sh*t.

One of two SE failed means you can peform everything you want, including STP. 
Maybe STP setup would be impossible (I haven't checked), but I'd bet it is also 
possible.
I've been working with single SE (primary failed) for some time. It wasn't my 
dream, but I could live with it.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: What happens with no working SE?

[R.S.]

No SE at all means your z/OS (or any other) system is still working, but 
no HW changes are possible, no IPL, many HW command will fail, etc. Deep 
sh*t.


One of two SE failed means you can peform everything you want, including 
STP. Maybe STP setup would be impossible (I haven't checked), but I'd 
bet it is also possible.
I've been working with single SE (primary failed) for some time. It 
wasn't my dream, but I could live with it.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 2016-03-23 o 23:58, Jesse 1 Robinson pisze:

We happen to have a failed SE at the moment. It's the 'alternate', so no 
immediate impact at all. But the question has been raised, what would happen if 
the primary failed also? I remember a case years ago (1990s) when there was 
only one SE in a box, and it went bad. Just meant that we could not IPL or make 
configuration changes in the meantime, but it did not affect any running 
system. In those days we had external timer boxes (9370?), so the sysplex was 
unaffected. Now we have STP, which I believe is a component of the SE.

If a modern box had no working SE for some period of time, would the sysplex 
across multiple CECs be affected?

.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com


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