Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Lester, Bob]

 3197?

BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tony Harminc
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2017 4:17 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: new member, need old iron assistance [ EXTERNAL ]

Didn't IBM have a monochrome 327x-family display that could be rotated to what 
we might now call portrait or landscape position? IIRC the phosphor was white 
rather than green, and it was intended for hi-res (of the day) text processing.

Tony H.

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Tony Harminc]

On 1 May 2017 at 15:01, John McKown  wrote:

> We had a few 3290s at Equitable in Ft. Worth. I really like them. But the
> weirdest one that I've ever seen looked like two 3278-2 set one on top of
> the other. I can't find the model number. It had a single screen that
> looked about as wide as a 3278-2 and about 2 times as tall as wide.​ I
> think it could be configured as one monitor which was _really_ deep. I
> would guess 48 or 50 data lines.
>

Didn't IBM have a monochrome 327x-family display that could be rotated to
what we might now call portrait or landscape position? IIRC the phosphor
was white rather than green, and it was intended for hi-res (of the day)
text processing.

Tony H.

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Tony Harminc]

On 1 May 2017 at 15:38, Tom Brennan  wrote:

> Wow!  All I can think of is some high voltage going on in there, like the
> flyback transformer in an old tube TV.  I never heard the one I worked on,
> like you say probably because of all the machine noise in the tape room.


I remember seeing an IBM article on how the 3290 was designed and built. A
few years ago I had some reason to want to find it, and searched the IBM
Systems Journal and Journal of R titles for the 1980s (when I know we got
our first 3290), and was unable to find anything. I suppose it may have
been a marketing glossy, but iirc it was far too detailed and technical for
that. One piece of trivia I remember is that there are tiny spacers in the
screen to keep the glass layers from bowing inwards under the vacuum;
something that's needed only for a large and flat screen like this, and
obviously not for other vacuum devices like CRTs which are made somewhat
convex, or much smaller plasma displays. These spacers are visible, though
not distracting. Maybe Dave could confirm my memory on this one by looking
at the actual device for little short (iirc vertical) dark lines spaced
evenly across the screen.

Tony H.

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Tom Brennan]

Wow!  All I can think of is some high voltage going on in there, like 
the flyback transformer in an old tube TV.  I never heard the one I 
worked on, like you say probably because of all the machine noise in the 
tape room.


Pommier, Rex wrote:

Ahh, yes.  The slow refresh rate of the 3290.  I don't know about yours, but we 
could not only watch the 3290 repaint the screen top to bottom, but we could 
also hear it repaint.  Kind of a quiet rattling or rapid clicking sound during 
a refresh.  Couldn't hear it in the machine room, but it was definitely audible 
in an office setting.


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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[John McKown]

On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
peter.far...@broadridge.com> wrote:

> Possibly a 3278-4, 43 lines deep by 80 chars wide?
>

​Probably. I can't find _any_ pictures of that beast.​



>
> Peter
>
>

-- 
Advertising is a valuable economic factor because it is the cheapest way of
selling goods, particularly if the goods are worthless. -- Sinclair Lewis


Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Possibly a 3278-4, 43 lines deep by 80 chars wide?

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 3:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: new member, need old iron assistance

On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Pommier, Rex <rpomm...@sfgmembers.com>
wrote:

> Ahh, yes.  The slow refresh rate of the 3290.  I don't know about yours,
> but we could not only watch the 3290 repaint the screen top to bottom, but
> we could also hear it repaint.  Kind of a quiet rattling or rapid clicking
> sound during a refresh.  Couldn't hear it in the machine room, but it was
> definitely audible in an office setting.
>
> Rex
>

​We had a few 3290s at Equitable in Ft. Worth. I really like them. But the
weirdest one that I've ever seen looked like two 3278-2 set one on top of
the other. I can't find the model number. It had a single screen that
looked about as wide as a 3278-2 and about 2 times as tall as wide.​ I
think it could be configured as one monitor which was _really_ deep. I
would guess 48 or 50 data lines.
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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[John McKown]

On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Pommier, Rex 
wrote:

> Ahh, yes.  The slow refresh rate of the 3290.  I don't know about yours,
> but we could not only watch the 3290 repaint the screen top to bottom, but
> we could also hear it repaint.  Kind of a quiet rattling or rapid clicking
> sound during a refresh.  Couldn't hear it in the machine room, but it was
> definitely audible in an office setting.
>
> Rex
>

​We had a few 3290s at Equitable in Ft. Worth. I really like them. But the
weirdest one that I've ever seen looked like two 3278-2 set one on top of
the other. I can't find the model number. It had a single screen that
looked about as wide as a 3278-2 and about 2 times as tall as wide.​ I
think it could be configured as one monitor which was _really_ deep. I
would guess 48 or 50 data lines.


-- 
Advertising is a valuable economic factor because it is the cheapest way of
selling goods, particularly if the goods are worthless. -- Sinclair Lewis


Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Pommier, Rex]

Ahh, yes.  The slow refresh rate of the 3290.  I don't know about yours, but we 
could not only watch the 3290 repaint the screen top to bottom, but we could 
also hear it repaint.  Kind of a quiet rattling or rapid clicking sound during 
a refresh.  Couldn't hear it in the machine room, but it was definitely audible 
in an office setting.

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 11:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: new member, need old iron assistance

I worked with a 3290 that had 4 mod-2 displays all visible at once.  I always 
thought it had 4 coax cables, but now I can't remember ever looking at the 
back.  It was in a tape room and had an MVS console for each of 3 systems, with 
the 4th display available as a TSO terminal. 
This was probably a couple of years before TN3270 emulators with multiple 
windows became popular, and I used it myself a bit (I was the tape sysprog at 
the time).  I remember underlines instead if highlighted text, probably because 
the plasma pixels just had two settings - on or off.  I also remember it being 
rather slow displaying text - you could basically watch the text "paint" itself 
from top-to-bottom when a new screen came in from the host.  But hey, you got 
to type on a 3270 keyboard with real Clear and Reset and Erase-EOF keys.  Now I 
feel bad because the one I worked on probably ended up in the trash.

I never heard of the museum, so I googled for the address and there's a 
street-view picture of a guy in a black t-shirt unloading various boxes that 
must be for the museum.

It's less than an hour from a datacenter I worked at last month, so if I need 
to go to Pittsburgh again I'd sure like to see the museum.  And yes, please 
post anything about it here!  Disclaimer: I have absolutely no authority 
whatsoever :)


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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Dave McGuire]

  Bitsavers is the first place I checked. ;)

 -Dave

On 05/01/2017 12:35 AM, Edward Finnell wrote:

If you do a find on 3290 there are numerous references to 3290 specific
manuals. Don't know if they're on bitsavers or not. Probably maybe


In a message dated 4/30/2017 10:50:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
mcgu...@lssmuseum.org writes:

Thank  you John, got that one  already.



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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Edward Finnell]

If you do a find on 3290 there are numerous references to 3290 specific  
manuals. Don't know if they're on bitsavers or not. Probably maybe
 
 
In a message dated 4/30/2017 10:50:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
mcgu...@lssmuseum.org writes:

Thank  you John, got that one  already.



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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Dave McGuire]

On 04/30/2017 02:09 AM, John P. Baker wrote:

I recommend that you take a look at IBM publication GA23-0214-03.

Do a Google search on "3174 customization" and select the entry starting "Full text 
of...".


  Thank you John, got that one already.

 -Dave

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Dave McGuire]

On 04/29/2017 03:15 PM, Steve Smith wrote:

Ah, a museum.  That's awesome, and best of luck getting the 3290
running.


  Thanks!  I've located a copy of the manual that covers the 3290 setup 
panels.  It's a bit on the expensive side, but I'll be purchasing it 
tomorrow.  Maybe that'll arrive soon enough to get me over this hump.  I 
really want us to be able to show off the 3290 running next weekend.



I do remember it fondly.  I had it for some years sometime
between 1985 and '95.  I was continually re-configuring it, and I think
I liked a 3-way setup most of the time.


  Nice!


I'm sure many on this list are interested in the museum, in fact, I'd
guess this is likely one of the best places to talk about it.  Warning:
it doesn't take much provocation for some of us with considerable
experience to start reminiscing.


  Oh, believe me, I know what you mean. ;)  I actually come from the 
other side of the computing world; I started out in DECland, cut my 
teeth on PDP-11s (had a big one in my bedroom as a teenager in the 
mid-1980s), was a DEC VMS sysadmin for many years on a bunch of VAXen, 
and have been ensconced in the commercial UNIX world for most of my life 
after that.  The "graybeards" in that side of the world get just as 
verbosely sentimental, believe me. ;)  We do all love our machines.


   -Dave

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Dave McGuire]

On 04/29/2017 12:40 AM, Tom Brennan wrote:

I worked with a 3290 that had 4 mod-2 displays all visible at once.  I
always thought it had 4 coax cables, but now I can't remember ever
looking at the back.  It was in a tape room and had an MVS console for
each of 3 systems, with the 4th display available as a TSO terminal.
This was probably a couple of years before TN3270 emulators with
multiple windows became popular, and I used it myself a bit (I was the
tape sysprog at the time).  I remember underlines instead if highlighted
text, probably because the plasma pixels just had two settings - on or
off.  I also remember it being rather slow displaying text - you could
basically watch the text "paint" itself from top-to-bottom when a new
screen came in from the host.  But hey, you got to type on a 3270
keyboard with real Clear and Reset and Erase-EOF keys.


  Neat.  Yes, the 3290 isn't the fastest of terminals.  Later releases 
of the 3174 microcode has some nice 3290-specific performance 
optimization options that help, though, so they're not too bad.



Now I feel bad because the one I worked on probably ended up in the trash.


  That's very sad to hear.  That fate befell far too much good, 
historically-important hardware.



I never heard of the museum, so I googled for the address and there's a
street-view picture of a guy in a black t-shirt unloading various boxes
that must be for the museum.


  Ah yes, that'd either be me, or more likely Chris, who is one of our 
volunteers.  We both wear black T-shirts pretty much perpetually. ;)  So 
now one of us is "Google Street View Famous". ;)



It's less than an hour from a datacenter I worked at last month, so if I
need to go to Pittsburgh again I'd sure like to see the museum.  And
yes, please post anything about it here!  Disclaimer: I have absolutely
no authority whatsoever :)


  Understood. :)  A few people have asked about it, so I will send a 
copy of my announcement email to the list shortly.  It's pretty short 
notice for the big opening event itself (it's Saturday, May 6th) but 
hopefully some folks from here will be able to make it.


-Dave

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Dave McGuire]

On 04/28/2017 04:13 PM, Dana Mitchell wrote:

If I am remembering correctly, the 3290 handled it's sessions itself,
differently than using MLT for regular terminals.


  Yes, the 3290 is a DFT, not a CUT, so it does multi-session MIS 
(Multiple Interactive Sessions) style, not MLT-style.  As I (now) 
understand it, MLT is only for CUT (dumb) terminals, but DFTs use MIS.



In the
configuration, do you assign LU's to each 3174 port?  I think you
need to assign extra LU's to the port that the 3290 is plugged into.


  I had, yes, but it didn't get me anywhere.

  In between cleaning, polishing, and setting up demos of running 
systems for the big museum re-opening next weekend (will announce here 
shortly, a few people have asked) I keep going back to the 3174+3290 and 
fiddling.  I'm mostly doing it in the dark...I have 3174 documentation, 
but no manuals for the 3290's setup panels yet, and the parameters are 
unlabeled.  I've learned a lot, but still don't have any sessions 
visible on the 3290.


  What I've come to suspect is that the 3290 is actually working 
properly, but there's something to do with terminal sizing or something 
like that that's keeping the session selection screen from coming up. 
This 3174 is a -61R with Ethernet and TCP/IP capability (Configuration 
C), and it's set up to present a connection selection screen so the user 
can select a host to which to connect.  That has been configured and 
working here, on several different CUT terminals, for a couple of years. 
 I'm just trying to add the 3290 to the mix.  But that connection 
selection screen just never appears.


  My next step is to try to configure a static connection from one of 
the 3290's sessions directly to a host in the 3174's configuration, and 
see if that host's logon screen appears.  If it does, then I'll know 
there's something up with the way the 3174 wants to present its 
connection selection screen.


  -Dave

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Dave McGuire]

On 04/30/2017 08:22 AM, Parwez Hamid wrote:

Resending. Original response had a few typos :-)

Dave,

I have sent a 18 MB pdf file - 3274 Control Unit customization,
planning and set-up guide direct to you. For a 3290 attached to a
3274 you need the configuration support T licensed microcode disk and
for a 3172 Control unit, I think its configuration support C. The
3274 used a 8 inch floppy disk for the microcode!


  Hi Parwez, thanks for the PDF, but maybe I was not specific enough, 
I'm actually running the 3290 from a 3174, not a 3274.  The Museum here 
does have a 3274, but it's not yet in use.


-Dave

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Parwez Hamid]

Resending. Original response had a few typos :-)

Dave,

I have sent a 18 MB pdf file - 3274 Control Unit customization, planning and 
set-up guide direct to you. For a 3290 attached to a 3274 you need the 
configuration support T licensed microcode disk and for a 3172 Control unit, I 
think its configuration support C. The 3274 used a 8 inch floppy disk for the 
microcode!

Parwez  Hamid

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[John P. Baker]

I recommend that you take a look at IBM publication GA23-0214-03.

Do a Google search on "3174 customization" and select the entry starting "Full 
text of...".

John P. Baker

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2017, at 7:39 PM, Parwez Hamid  wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> 
> I have sent a 18 MB pdf file - 3274 Control Unit customization, planning and 
> set-up guide direct to you. For a 3290 attached to a 3174 you need the 
> configuration support T licensed microcode disk for the 3274 and for a 3173 
> CU I think its configuration support C. The 3274 used a 8 inch floppy disk 
> for the microcode!
> 
> Parwez  Hamid
> 
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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Parwez Hamid]

Dave,

I have sent a 18 MB pdf file - 3274 Control Unit customization, planning and 
set-up guide direct to you. For a 3290 attached to a 3174 you need the 
configuration support T licensed microcode disk for the 3274 and for a 3173 CU 
I think its configuration support C. The 3274 used a 8 inch floppy disk for the 
microcode!

Parwez  Hamid

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Steve Smith]

Ah, a museum.  That's awesome, and best of luck getting the 3290 
running.  I do remember it fondly.  I had it for some years sometime 
between 1985 and '95.  I was continually re-configuring it, and I think 
I liked a 3-way setup most of the time.


I'm sure many on this list are interested in the museum, in fact, I'd 
guess this is likely one of the best places to talk about it.  Warning: 
it doesn't take much provocation for some of us with considerable 
experience to start reminiscing.


sas


On 4/28/2017 23:22, Dave McGuire wrote:

On 04/28/2017 10:35 PM, Steve Smith wrote:

Wow.  You really want to operate a 3290 in this age?


  Yes I do.  This is in a museum.  But honestly, as a professional 
developer by day, I'd happily type on that thing all day long. It's 
gorgeous!



It must be 30 years old; but then I guess they were built to last.


  About 35 years old, yes.  And yes, built like tanks.  And quite hard 
to find nowadays; they cost a small fortune if you can even find one.



ISTR mine weighed in around 75 lbs.


  I'd guess around 60lbs.  I don't like to move it very often. ;)


(some people thought it was bolted down),


  Yup, I can certainly see that. :)


and that maybe a newer
and somewhat lighter model came out later.  Must have been the mid-'90s.


  Yes, the 3290-2.  It didn't have the big "humpback" protrusion that 
contained most of the logic; it was integrated into the panel.  We 
have one of those too, here at the Large Scale Systems Museum in the 
Pittsburgh area.



Anyway, my gut says you could buy a couple 24" displays for what that
monster will cost you in power & cooling for a year.  It got pretty hot.


  Yup.  I haven't measured its power consumption, but it does crank 
out the heat.  The Museum can sometimes make it clear until 
mid-January before starting the building's main boiler. :-)


  Speaking of the Large Scale Systems Museum...We're actually about to 
have our grand re-opening shindig after a big expansion and many 
months of renovations; would it be compatible with the charter of this 
list to post an announcement here?  We do have quite a bit of IBM iron.


  -Dave



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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Joel C. Ewing]

Only 1 coax cable and physical controller port:
"The 3290 Information Panel attaches to a 3274 Control unit utilizing
one physical port and up to five addresses, depending on the
application. Up to 31 3290's can be attached to a 3274 depending on the
application and 3274 model being used. The 3290 Information Panel
attaches with the same coax cable that is used with other Category A
terminals to attach to a 3274 Control Unit."

Obviously that should require some special configuration at the Control
Unit level since for ordinary 3270 terminals there was only one address
associated with each physical port on the controller.  I believe the
reason for the max of five addresses was so you could select to run the
device as if it were four regular-sized independent 3270 devices, or one
huge screen display (on the 5th device address).  My vague recollection
is that when running as a single large display ISPF supported doing both
vertical and horizontal splits to split the display into four logical
parts driven by a single ISPF session.
Joel C. Ewing

On 04/28/2017 11:40 PM, Tom Brennan wrote:
> I worked with a 3290 that had 4 mod-2 displays all visible at once.  I
> always thought it had 4 coax cables, but now I can't remember ever
> looking at the back.  It was in a tape room and had an MVS console for
> each of 3 systems, with the 4th display available as a TSO terminal.
> This was probably a couple of years before TN3270 emulators with
> multiple windows became popular, and I used it myself a bit (I was the
> tape sysprog at the time).  I remember underlines instead if
> highlighted text, probably because the plasma pixels just had two
> settings - on or off.  I also remember it being rather slow displaying
> text - you could basically watch the text "paint" itself from
> top-to-bottom when a new screen came in from the host.  But hey, you
> got to type on a 3270 keyboard with real Clear and Reset and Erase-EOF
> keys.  Now I feel bad because the one I worked on probably ended up in
> the trash.
>
> I never heard of the museum, so I googled for the address and there's
> a street-view picture of a guy in a black t-shirt unloading various
> boxes that must be for the museum.
>
> It's less than an hour from a datacenter I worked at last month, so if
> I need to go to Pittsburgh again I'd sure like to see the museum.  And
> yes, please post anything about it here!  Disclaimer: I have
> absolutely no authority whatsoever :)
>
> Dave McGuire wrote:
>> On 04/28/2017 10:35 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
>>
>>> Wow.  You really want to operate a 3290 in this age?
>>
>>
>>   Yes I do.  This is in a museum.  But honestly, as a professional
>> developer by day, I'd happily type on that thing all day long.  It's
>> gorgeous!
>>
>>> It must be 30 years old; but then I guess they were built to last.
>>
>>
>>   About 35 years old, yes.  And yes, built like tanks.  And quite
>> hard to find nowadays; they cost a small fortune if you can even find
>> one.
>>
>>> ISTR mine weighed in around 75 lbs.
>>
>>
>>   I'd guess around 60lbs.  I don't like to move it very often. ;)
>>
>>> (some people thought it was bolted down),
>>
>>
>>   Yup, I can certainly see that. :)
>>
>>> and that maybe a newer
>>> and somewhat lighter model came out later.  Must have been the
>>> mid-'90s.
>>
>>
>>   Yes, the 3290-2.  It didn't have the big "humpback" protrusion that
>> contained most of the logic; it was integrated into the panel.  We
>> have one of those too, here at the Large Scale Systems Museum in the
>> Pittsburgh area.
>>
>>> Anyway, my gut says you could buy a couple 24" displays for what that
>>> monster will cost you in power & cooling for a year.  It got pretty
>>> hot.
>>
>>
>>   Yup.  I haven't measured its power consumption, but it does crank
>> out the heat.  The Museum can sometimes make it clear until
>> mid-January before starting the building's main boiler. :-)
>>
>>   Speaking of the Large Scale Systems Museum...We're actually about
>> to have our grand re-opening shindig after a big expansion and many
>> months of renovations; would it be compatible with the charter of
>> this list to post an announcement here?  We do have quite a bit of
>> IBM iron.
>>
>>   -Dave
>>
>
> --
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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Edward Finnell]

IBM tried to give us a bunch of these back in the nineties. I don't  
remember all the details. With MES for 3290 support and upgrade to Config  
Support-B for 3174's they were way too expensive. IBM was charging $1500 for  
20Mb 
hard drives. Think we ended up with the Info Windows with VGA ports and a  
couple of DATA21 large screens for production control and operations.
 
 
 
In a message dated 4/28/2017 10:22:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
mcgu...@lssmuseum.org writes:

Yes I  do.  This is in a museum.  But honestly, as a professional  
developer by day, I'd happily type on that thing all day long.  It's  
gorgeous!


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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Tom Brennan]

I worked with a 3290 that had 4 mod-2 displays all visible at once.  I 
always thought it had 4 coax cables, but now I can't remember ever 
looking at the back.  It was in a tape room and had an MVS console for 
each of 3 systems, with the 4th display available as a TSO terminal. 
This was probably a couple of years before TN3270 emulators with 
multiple windows became popular, and I used it myself a bit (I was the 
tape sysprog at the time).  I remember underlines instead if highlighted 
text, probably because the plasma pixels just had two settings - on or 
off.  I also remember it being rather slow displaying text - you could 
basically watch the text "paint" itself from top-to-bottom when a new 
screen came in from the host.  But hey, you got to type on a 3270 
keyboard with real Clear and Reset and Erase-EOF keys.  Now I feel bad 
because the one I worked on probably ended up in the trash.


I never heard of the museum, so I googled for the address and there's a 
street-view picture of a guy in a black t-shirt unloading various boxes 
that must be for the museum.


It's less than an hour from a datacenter I worked at last month, so if I 
need to go to Pittsburgh again I'd sure like to see the museum.  And 
yes, please post anything about it here!  Disclaimer: I have absolutely 
no authority whatsoever :)


Dave McGuire wrote:

On 04/28/2017 10:35 PM, Steve Smith wrote:


Wow.  You really want to operate a 3290 in this age?



  Yes I do.  This is in a museum.  But honestly, as a professional 
developer by day, I'd happily type on that thing all day long.  It's 
gorgeous!



It must be 30 years old; but then I guess they were built to last.



  About 35 years old, yes.  And yes, built like tanks.  And quite hard 
to find nowadays; they cost a small fortune if you can even find one.



ISTR mine weighed in around 75 lbs.



  I'd guess around 60lbs.  I don't like to move it very often. ;)


(some people thought it was bolted down),



  Yup, I can certainly see that. :)


and that maybe a newer
and somewhat lighter model came out later.  Must have been the mid-'90s.



  Yes, the 3290-2.  It didn't have the big "humpback" protrusion that 
contained most of the logic; it was integrated into the panel.  We have 
one of those too, here at the Large Scale Systems Museum in the 
Pittsburgh area.



Anyway, my gut says you could buy a couple 24" displays for what that
monster will cost you in power & cooling for a year.  It got pretty hot.



  Yup.  I haven't measured its power consumption, but it does crank out 
the heat.  The Museum can sometimes make it clear until mid-January 
before starting the building's main boiler. :-)


  Speaking of the Large Scale Systems Museum...We're actually about to 
have our grand re-opening shindig after a big expansion and many months 
of renovations; would it be compatible with the charter of this list to 
post an announcement here?  We do have quite a bit of IBM iron.


  -Dave



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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Dave McGuire]

On 04/28/2017 10:35 PM, Steve Smith wrote:

Wow.  You really want to operate a 3290 in this age?


  Yes I do.  This is in a museum.  But honestly, as a professional 
developer by day, I'd happily type on that thing all day long.  It's 
gorgeous!



It must be 30 years old; but then I guess they were built to last.


  About 35 years old, yes.  And yes, built like tanks.  And quite hard 
to find nowadays; they cost a small fortune if you can even find one.



ISTR mine weighed in around 75 lbs.


  I'd guess around 60lbs.  I don't like to move it very often. ;)


(some people thought it was bolted down),


  Yup, I can certainly see that. :)


and that maybe a newer
and somewhat lighter model came out later.  Must have been the mid-'90s.


  Yes, the 3290-2.  It didn't have the big "humpback" protrusion that 
contained most of the logic; it was integrated into the panel.  We have 
one of those too, here at the Large Scale Systems Museum in the 
Pittsburgh area.



Anyway, my gut says you could buy a couple 24" displays for what that
monster will cost you in power & cooling for a year.  It got pretty hot.


  Yup.  I haven't measured its power consumption, but it does crank out 
the heat.  The Museum can sometimes make it clear until mid-January 
before starting the building's main boiler. :-)


  Speaking of the Large Scale Systems Museum...We're actually about to 
have our grand re-opening shindig after a big expansion and many months 
of renovations; would it be compatible with the charter of this list to 
post an announcement here?  We do have quite a bit of IBM iron.


  -Dave

--
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President/Curator, Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Steve Smith]

Wow.  You really want to operate a 3290 in this age?  It must be 30 years
old; but then I guess they were built to last.  ISTR mine weighed in around
75 lbs. (some people thought it was bolted down), and that maybe a newer
and somewhat lighter model came out later.  Must have been the mid-'90s.

Anyway, my gut says you could buy a couple 24" displays for what that
monster will cost you in power & cooling for a year.  It got pretty hot.

sas


On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Feller, Paul <paul.fel...@transamerica.com>
wrote:

> I have not seen a 3290 in years, but I think the next few ports in the
> 3174 become dead ports.  So if you are defining 4 sessions the next three
> ports to the one you plug in the coax in the 3174 become dead.  You still
> need the VTAM/LU stuff defined.  I think.  Like I said I have not seen a
> 3290 or a 3174 in years.
>
> Thanks..
>
> Paul Feller
> AGT Mainframe Technical Support
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Dave McGuire
> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 15:00
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: new member, need old iron assistance
>
>Hello Paul, yes I think I have that set up correctly.  But this got
> me thinking, and I may be misunderstanding something about the 3174 and
> its handling of multiple sessions.
>
>What I've done is configured MLT (Multiple Logical Terminal) support
> on the 3174, which works well on the other terminals; I can switch back
> and forth between four independent sessions on the same terminal.  Only
> one coax port on the 3174 is used for this.
>
>I had assumed that this is how the 3290 handles multiple sessions.
> Your suggestion of allocating a total of four ports on the 3174 for the
> 3290 got me thinking that perhaps it does this a different way; do you
> mean allocating four actual physical coax ports on the 3174 for the 3290?
>
>  -Dave
>
> On 04/28/2017 01:48 PM, Feller, Paul wrote:
> > If I remember correctly if you plan on doing multiple screens on the
> > 3290 you also have to setup the 3174 to handle it.  As an example if
> > you want 4 3270 mod4s you have to let the 3174 know you will be using
> > up a total of 4 ports on the 3174.
> >
> > Thanks..
> >
> > Paul Feller AGT Mainframe Technical Support
> >
> > -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> > [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent:
> > Friday, April 28, 2017 12:31 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject:
> > new member, need old iron assistance
> >
> > Hi folks, new list member here.  I come seeking the wisdom of gurus.
> >  Please forgive any breach of protocol.
> >
> > I'm looking for some assistance with some older iron, a 3290 plasma
> > terminal.  I have it partially functional, connected to a 3174, and
> > can get into the terminal's setup panels, but those panels are
> > essentially useless without documentation.  I'm not getting any
> > sessions through the 3174 to the 3290, so something is wrong
> > somewhere.  Other terminals connected to the same 3174 reach hosts
> > just fine.  It's my hope that I'll be able to figure it out once I
> > find the appropriate documentation.
> >
> > I believe the setup panels are documented in publication GA23-0241,
> > which doesn't appear to be available online anywhere.
> >
> > Would anyone here have a copy of that manual, or any other relevant
> > material, on a dusty bookshelf?  Or would anyone with knowledge of
> > 3290+3174 configuration be willing to give me some assistance?
> >
> > Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Respectfully, -Dave
> >
>
>
> --
> Dave McGuire
> President/Curator, Large Scale Systems Museum
> New Kensington, PA
>
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-- 
sas

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Feller, Paul]

I have not seen a 3290 in years, but I think the next few ports in the 3174 
become dead ports.  So if you are defining 4 sessions the next three ports to 
the one you plug in the coax in the 3174 become dead.  You still need the 
VTAM/LU stuff defined.  I think.  Like I said I have not seen a 3290 or a 3174 
in years.

Thanks..

Paul Feller
AGT Mainframe Technical Support


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 15:00
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: new member, need old iron assistance

   Hello Paul, yes I think I have that set up correctly.  But this got 
me thinking, and I may be misunderstanding something about the 3174 and 
its handling of multiple sessions.

   What I've done is configured MLT (Multiple Logical Terminal) support 
on the 3174, which works well on the other terminals; I can switch back 
and forth between four independent sessions on the same terminal.  Only 
one coax port on the 3174 is used for this.

   I had assumed that this is how the 3290 handles multiple sessions. 
Your suggestion of allocating a total of four ports on the 3174 for the 
3290 got me thinking that perhaps it does this a different way; do you 
mean allocating four actual physical coax ports on the 3174 for the 3290?

 -Dave

On 04/28/2017 01:48 PM, Feller, Paul wrote:
> If I remember correctly if you plan on doing multiple screens on the
> 3290 you also have to setup the 3174 to handle it.  As an example if
> you want 4 3270 mod4s you have to let the 3174 know you will be using
> up a total of 4 ports on the 3174.
>
> Thanks..
>
> Paul Feller AGT Mainframe Technical Support
>
> -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent:
> Friday, April 28, 2017 12:31 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject:
> new member, need old iron assistance
>
> Hi folks, new list member here.  I come seeking the wisdom of gurus.
>  Please forgive any breach of protocol.
>
> I'm looking for some assistance with some older iron, a 3290 plasma
> terminal.  I have it partially functional, connected to a 3174, and
> can get into the terminal's setup panels, but those panels are
> essentially useless without documentation.  I'm not getting any
> sessions through the 3174 to the 3290, so something is wrong
> somewhere.  Other terminals connected to the same 3174 reach hosts
> just fine.  It's my hope that I'll be able to figure it out once I
> find the appropriate documentation.
>
> I believe the setup panels are documented in publication GA23-0241,
> which doesn't appear to be available online anywhere.
>
> Would anyone here have a copy of that manual, or any other relevant
> material, on a dusty bookshelf?  Or would anyone with knowledge of
> 3290+3174 configuration be willing to give me some assistance?
>
> Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
>
> Respectfully, -Dave
>


-- 
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President/Curator, Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[John McKown]

This is kind of interesting, but not really detailed.

http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/rep_ca/3/897/ENUS183-033/index.html

a bit more interesting:
http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/content/computing/IBM/Mainframe/Hardware/Terminals/GA27-2827-13_3274PlanningSetupCustomizingMay84.pdf

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Dana Mitchell  wrote:

> If I am remembering correctly, the 3290 handled it's sessions itself,
> differently than using MLT for regular terminals.   In the configuration,
> do you assign LU's to each 3174 port?  I think you need to assign extra
> LU's to the port that the 3290 is plugged into.
> Dana
>
> On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:00:17 -0400, Dave McGuire 
> wrote:
> >
> >   What I've done is configured MLT (Multiple Logical Terminal) support
> >on the 3174, which works well on the other terminals; I can switch back
> >and forth between four independent sessions on the same terminal.  Only
> >one coax port on the 3174 is used for this.
> >
> >   I had assumed that this is how the 3290 handles multiple sessions.
> >Your suggestion of allocating a total of four ports on the 3174 for the
> >3290 got me thinking that perhaps it does this a different way; do you
> >mean allocating four actual physical coax ports on the 3174 for the 3290?
> >
> > -Dave
> >
>
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Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Dana Mitchell]

If I am remembering correctly, the 3290 handled it's sessions itself,  
differently than using MLT for regular terminals.   In the configuration, do 
you assign LU's to each 3174 port?  I think you need to assign extra LU's to 
the port that the 3290 is plugged into.
Dana

On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:00:17 -0400, Dave McGuire  wrote:
>
>   What I've done is configured MLT (Multiple Logical Terminal) support
>on the 3174, which works well on the other terminals; I can switch back
>and forth between four independent sessions on the same terminal.  Only
>one coax port on the 3174 is used for this.
>
>   I had assumed that this is how the 3290 handles multiple sessions.
>Your suggestion of allocating a total of four ports on the 3174 for the
>3290 got me thinking that perhaps it does this a different way; do you
>mean allocating four actual physical coax ports on the 3174 for the 3290?
>
> -Dave
>

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Carmen Vitullo]

Ok, got ya, Been so long since I've seen one, I forgot the difference. 


Carmen 

- Original Message -

From: "Dave McGuire" <mcgu...@lssmuseum.org> 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 2:58:40 PM 
Subject: Re: new member, need old iron assistance 

On 04/28/2017 02:03 PM, Carmen Vitullo wrote: 
> I can't remember if the 3290 has the ability to modify the controller 
> like the 3270's did, plug the coax or twisted pair into port 0 and 
> use the SETUP or control key to get into setup / diagnose mode? 

Hello Carmen, no, as far as I'm aware the 3174 configuration on port 
0 from the maintenance disk can only be done with a CUT terminal, while 
the 3290 is a DFT device. I use a 3179 terminal for configuration. 

-Dave 

-- 
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President/Curator, Large Scale Systems Museum 
New Kensington, PA 

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Dave McGuire]

  Hello Paul, yes I think I have that set up correctly.  But this got 
me thinking, and I may be misunderstanding something about the 3174 and 
its handling of multiple sessions.


  What I've done is configured MLT (Multiple Logical Terminal) support 
on the 3174, which works well on the other terminals; I can switch back 
and forth between four independent sessions on the same terminal.  Only 
one coax port on the 3174 is used for this.


  I had assumed that this is how the 3290 handles multiple sessions. 
Your suggestion of allocating a total of four ports on the 3174 for the 
3290 got me thinking that perhaps it does this a different way; do you 
mean allocating four actual physical coax ports on the 3174 for the 3290?


-Dave

On 04/28/2017 01:48 PM, Feller, Paul wrote:

If I remember correctly if you plan on doing multiple screens on the
3290 you also have to setup the 3174 to handle it.  As an example if
you want 4 3270 mod4s you have to let the 3174 know you will be using
up a total of 4 ports on the 3174.

Thanks..

Paul Feller AGT Mainframe Technical Support

-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent:
Friday, April 28, 2017 12:31 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject:
new member, need old iron assistance

Hi folks, new list member here.  I come seeking the wisdom of gurus.
 Please forgive any breach of protocol.

I'm looking for some assistance with some older iron, a 3290 plasma
terminal.  I have it partially functional, connected to a 3174, and
can get into the terminal's setup panels, but those panels are
essentially useless without documentation.  I'm not getting any
sessions through the 3174 to the 3290, so something is wrong
somewhere.  Other terminals connected to the same 3174 reach hosts
just fine.  It's my hope that I'll be able to figure it out once I
find the appropriate documentation.

I believe the setup panels are documented in publication GA23-0241,
which doesn't appear to be available online anywhere.

Would anyone here have a copy of that manual, or any other relevant
material, on a dusty bookshelf?  Or would anyone with knowledge of
3290+3174 configuration be willing to give me some assistance?

Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Respectfully, -Dave




--
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President/Curator, Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Dave McGuire]

On 04/28/2017 01:52 PM, Michael O'Byrne wrote:

Do you have a DSL disk for the 3290?


  Yes I do.  In the interest of brevity, I neglected to mention that 
this 3290 works well (in single-session mode) from a 3174-11L that's 
connected to a different host via parallel channel.


  What I'm trying to do now is run it from a 3174-61R which has 
Ethernet support.


  I've merged the DSL data into the -61R and the terminal requests it 
appropriately and comes up fine.  The only sticking point is that it 
session screens don't appear on the 3290.  Other terminals (3179, 3191, 
3180) connected to the same controller do.


 -Dave

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President/Curator, Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Dave McGuire]

On 04/28/2017 02:03 PM, Carmen Vitullo wrote:

I can't remember if the 3290 has the ability to modify the controller
like the 3270's did, plug the coax or twisted pair into port 0 and
use the SETUP or control key to get into setup / diagnose mode?


  Hello Carmen, no, as far as I'm aware the 3174 configuration on port 
0 from the maintenance disk can only be done with a CUT terminal, while 
the 3290 is a DFT device.  I use a 3179 terminal for configuration.


  -Dave

--
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President/Curator, Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Carmen Vitullo]

I can't remember if the 3290 has the ability to modify the controller like the 
3270's did, plug the coax or twisted pair into port 0 and use the SETUP or 
control key to get into setup / diagnose mode? 


Carmen 

- Original Message -

From: "Dave McGuire"  
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 12:30:32 PM 
Subject: new member, need old iron assistance 

Hi folks, new list member here. I come seeking the wisdom of gurus. 
Please forgive any breach of protocol. 

I'm looking for some assistance with some older iron, a 3290 plasma 
terminal. I have it partially functional, connected to a 3174, and can 
get into the terminal's setup panels, but those panels are essentially 
useless without documentation. I'm not getting any sessions through the 
3174 to the 3290, so something is wrong somewhere. Other terminals 
connected to the same 3174 reach hosts just fine. It's my hope that 
I'll be able to figure it out once I find the appropriate documentation. 

I believe the setup panels are documented in publication GA23-0241, 
which doesn't appear to be available online anywhere. 

Would anyone here have a copy of that manual, or any other relevant 
material, on a dusty bookshelf? Or would anyone with knowledge of 
3290+3174 configuration be willing to give me some assistance? 

Any assistance is greatly appreciated. 

Respectfully, 
-Dave 

-- 
Dave McGuire 
President/Curator, Large Scale Systems Museum 
New Kensington, PA 

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Michael O'Byrne]

Do you have a DSL disk for the 3290?

DSL Disks: The DSL (Downstream Load) disk contains the diagnostics, system 

bringup code, and microcode for a display station that needs the control 
unit to 
downstream-load this code to it -for example, the 3290 Information Panel. 
The 
DSL disk is also used to load the microcode necessary to support the 
Asynchro- 
nous Emulation Adapter (AEA). You can merge the code from one DSL disk 
onto 
another DSL disk. You can have the DSL code for as many as four types of 
devices, or three types of devices and the AEA, on each DSL disk. If there 
are no 
DSL displays in the cluster and you are not configuring for the AEA, you 
will not 
need to use a DSL disk. 

https://archive.org/stream/bitsavers_ibm3174GA2ngGuideOct88_23395575/GA23-0214-3_3174_Customizing_Guide_Oct88_djvu.txt


Michael C. O'Byrne
Senior Software Analyst - Enterprise Server
Foot Locker Corporate Services
7800 W Brown Deer Rd, Milwaukee, WI 53223
(414) 357-4094

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Re: new member, need old iron assistance

[Feller, Paul]

If I remember correctly if you plan on doing multiple screens on the 3290 you 
also have to setup the 3174 to handle it.  As an example if you want 4 3270 
mod4s you have to let the 3174 know you will be using up a total of 4 ports on 
the 3174.

Thanks..

Paul Feller
AGT Mainframe Technical Support

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 12:31
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: new member, need old iron assistance

   Hi folks, new list member here.  I come seeking the wisdom of gurus. 
Please forgive any breach of protocol.

   I'm looking for some assistance with some older iron, a 3290 plasma 
terminal.  I have it partially functional, connected to a 3174, and can 
get into the terminal's setup panels, but those panels are essentially 
useless without documentation.  I'm not getting any sessions through the 
3174 to the 3290, so something is wrong somewhere.  Other terminals 
connected to the same 3174 reach hosts just fine.  It's my hope that 
I'll be able to figure it out once I find the appropriate documentation.

   I believe the setup panels are documented in publication GA23-0241, 
which doesn't appear to be available online anywhere.

   Would anyone here have a copy of that manual, or any other relevant 
material, on a dusty bookshelf?  Or would anyone with knowledge of 
3290+3174 configuration be willing to give me some assistance?

   Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

   Respectfully,
 -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire
President/Curator, Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA

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