Re: Proposed IETF 95 date change
John == John William Atwood william.atw...@concordia.ca writes: John It's not clear to me which is less desirable, starting on John Easter day, or finishing on Good Friday. Both are important John from the Christian perspective. However, for a significant John part of the IETF membership, neither Easter nor Good Friday is John important. My vote would be to leave it where it is. It's not the holiday that is important, it's the congestion at the airport that concerns me. Either week accomodates travelling on the Saturday of easter weekend, as being the possible out. I am not clear if we even know where it will be. -- Michael Richardson -on the airplane- pgpH6gS3LdtNr.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
- Original Message - From: Andrew G. Malis agma...@gmail.com To: IETF Administrative Director i...@ietf.org Cc: IETF Discussion ietf@ietf.org Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 10:42 PM Subject: Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change snip On the other hand, travel on 27 March should be relatively easy. Precisely, which makes the original dates better for travel than the proposed alteration. This is a relatively early (Easter) holiday, which makes the run up to it frantic, so trying to get home on the 24th/25th/26th I would expect to be a nightmare, whereas the following week will be relatively quiet. Stay with the original dates. Tom Petch Cheers, Andy On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:45 AM, IETF Administrative Director i...@ietf.org wrote: A reminder of the 6 August deadline for input. Thanks The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
I would personally prefer if the meeting was rescheduled for the week of April 3 - 8. - Philip On 2012-08-02, at 9:45 , IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012.
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
I am fine with the date change but please coordinate with IEEE802 to make sure there is no conflict. Best, Kuor Hsin Chang From: IETF Administrative Director i...@ietf.org To: IETF Announcement List ietf-annou...@ietf.org, Cc: i...@ietf.org, i...@iab.org, ietf@ietf.org, wgcha...@ietf.org, i...@ietf.org Date: 08/02/2012 09:48 AM Subject: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change Sent by: ietf-announce-boun...@ietf.org A reminder of the 6 August deadline for input. Thanks The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director __ This email has been spam and virus checked by Elster IT Services.
RE: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
+1 Timo -Original Message- From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Philip Matthews Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 8:10 PM I would personally prefer if the meeting was rescheduled for the week of April 3 - 8. - Philip On 2012-08-02, at 9:45 , IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012.
RE: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
I would personally prefer if the meeting was rescheduled for the week of April 3 - 8. Strongly opposed. ...
RE: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
+1 -Original Message- From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Perala, Timo (NSN - FI/Espoo) Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 4:05 PM To: IETF Discussion Subject: RE: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change +1 Timo -Original Message- From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Philip Matthews Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 8:10 PM I would personally prefer if the meeting was rescheduled for the week of April 3 - 8. - Philip On 2012-08-02, at 9:45 , IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012.
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Aug 2, 2012, at 9:45 AM, IETF Administrative Director i...@ietf.org wrote: The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Support. --Olaf
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
Both the original and the proposed new dates are fine with me. Note that anyone planning on traveling on 26 March (the day before Easter) should probably make their reservations well ahead of time. On the other hand, travel on 27 March should be relatively easy. Cheers, Andy On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:45 AM, IETF Administrative Director i...@ietf.org wrote: A reminder of the 6 August deadline for input. Thanks The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
RE: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
I think the main (as in the one more people would care about) issue here (UK) isn't a religious clash, it's a public holiday clash (Friday and Monday). -- Christopher Dearlove Senior Principal Engineer, Communications Group Communications, Networks and Image Analysis Capability BAE Systems Advanced Technology Centre West Hanningfield Road, Great Baddow, Chelmsford, CM2 8HN, UK Tel: +44 1245 242194 | Fax: +44 1245 242124 chris.dearl...@baesystems.com | http://www.baesystems.com BAE Systems (Operations) Limited Registered Office: Warwick House, PO Box 87, Farnborough Aerospace Centre, Farnborough, Hants, GU14 6YU, UK Registered in England Wales No: 1996687 -Original Message- From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter Sent: 21 July 2012 08:16 To: Fred Baker (fred) Cc: Paul Hoffman; IETF discussion list Subject: Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change --! WARNING ! -- This message originates from outside our organisation, either from an external partner or from the internet. Keep this in mind if you answer this message. Follow the 'Report Suspicious Emails' link on IT matters for instructions on reporting suspicious email messages. On 21/07/2012 02:30, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: On Jul 20, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: As for the Ramadan issue: we've had IETF meetings during Jewish holidays a few times, and folks dealt with it as best they can. If there are some accommodations that can be made at any IETF meeting for different holidays of major religions, I would bet that IETF Secretariat would be glad to hear them. It comes down to adding them to the clash list... (which is at http://www.ietf.org/meeting/clash-list.html) And we know that if we did that, on top of all the other technical meetings that we have to avoid, the result would be overconstrained and scheduling would become impossible. IMNSHO we need to treat all religious constraints alike, and in practice that means ignoring them. For practical reasons, we can't ignore major holidays - not because some of them are religious, but because they block up hotels and airlines. Finding the least bad solution is always going to be a compromise, and I thank the IAOC for continuing to plan several years ahead. Brian This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person.
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
+1 On 7/23/12 6:28 AM, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) keith.dr...@alcatel-lucent.com wrote: Let's forget the religious discussion that seems to have broken out as a result of this. While Easter may be a major Christian festival, I don't believe the issue is such (I can think of no reasons why Christians would have a doctrinal reason other than those that apply to any other Sunday and those obligations could mostly be met at the venue rather than at home). Rather it is Easter the secular public holiday that happens to occur in many countries. This is the set of days when schools take an extended break, parents take said children off on short holidays; cheap air tickets cease to be available; when you get on the plane, it is full of screaming children; local transport all works to a reduced timetable; for those IETFers who end up wishing to travel by train, they find themselves moving to busses to cater for the engineering works which a 4 day weekend seems to encourage. So my advice would be, change the dates if it looks like you are going to hold the meeting in a country that takes such holidays, or where a significant number of people would need to transit through such a country. If so you need to take into account at least both the Friday and Monday in some countries. Keith P.S. Trying to avoid every religious and public holiday is an impossible task. Do what other organizations have done and concentrate on the impact of such holidays on holding the meeting in any location. -Original Message- From: wgchairs-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:wgchairs-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of IETF Administrative Director Sent: 20 July 2012 17:06 To: IETF Announcement List Cc: i...@ietf.org; i...@iab.org; ietf@ietf.org; wgcha...@ietf.org Subject: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Jul 20, 2012, at 18:36 , Joel jaeggli wrote: On 7/20/12 09:06 , IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. 20 march is palm sunday on the western calender. If one's a conflict presumably the other is too... True, but if I can choose I would say 20-25 is better... L. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On 20/07/2012 18:06, IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director If March 27 is Easter, then I'm not sure if the change solves the problem. Sunday March 20 is Palm Sunday, the Thursday and Friday before Easter (as well as the Monday after) are religious holidays in many European countries. If you want to avoid a clash with Easter and related days, then one will have to move the meeting to either the week of 13-18 March, or the week of 3-8 April. Henk -- -- Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk(at)uijterwaal.nl http://www.uijterwaal.nl Phone: +31.6.55861746 -- Read my blog at http://www.uijterwaal.nl/henks_hands.html
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Mon, 2012-07-23 at 10:08 +0200, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: On 20/07/2012 18:06, IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director If March 27 is Easter, then I'm not sure if the change solves the problem. Sunday March 20 is Palm Sunday, the Thursday and Friday before Easter (as well as the Monday after) are religious holidays in many European countries. If you want to avoid a clash with Easter and related days, then one will have to move the meeting to either the week of 13-18 March, or the week of 3-8 April. I agree, and prefer the former. Henk
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Jul 23, 2012, at 14:28, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) wrote: you need to take into account at least both the Friday and Monday in some countries. +1 In much of Europe, the Easter holidays run from Good Friday to Easter Monday, and exhibit -- strong travel activity -- zero to reduced opening times of various essential facilities -- reduced public transport schedules (*) When meeting in Europe, avoid both weeks around Easter. (Clearly, we need to have IETF95 in Bali. :-) Grüße, Carsten (*) A bit counterintuitive -- the reason is that public transport agencies tend to cater to their employees as opposed to their customers, and these employees want to enjoy the holidays, too. Since everybody knows that public transport is overcrowded on these long weekends, there isn't even any backlash.
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Jul 23, 2012, at 4:08 AM, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: On 20/07/2012 18:06, IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director If March 27 is Easter, then I'm not sure if the change solves the problem. Sunday March 20 is Palm Sunday, the Thursday and Friday before Easter (as well as the Monday after) are religious holidays in many European countries. If you want to avoid a clash with Easter and related days, then one will have to move the meeting to either the week of 13-18 March, 13 - 18 March 2016 are the dates for the IEEE-802 Plenary. Ray or the week of 3-8 April. Henk -- -- Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk(at)uijterwaal.nl http://www.uijterwaal.nl Phone: +31.6.55861746 -- Read my blog at http://www.uijterwaal.nl/henks_hands.html
RE: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
Let's forget the religious discussion that seems to have broken out as a result of this. While Easter may be a major Christian festival, I don't believe the issue is such (I can think of no reasons why Christians would have a doctrinal reason other than those that apply to any other Sunday and those obligations could mostly be met at the venue rather than at home). Rather it is Easter the secular public holiday that happens to occur in many countries. This is the set of days when schools take an extended break, parents take said children off on short holidays; cheap air tickets cease to be available; when you get on the plane, it is full of screaming children; local transport all works to a reduced timetable; for those IETFers who end up wishing to travel by train, they find themselves moving to busses to cater for the engineering works which a 4 day weekend seems to encourage. So my advice would be, change the dates if it looks like you are going to hold the meeting in a country that takes such holidays, or where a significant number of people would need to transit through such a country. If so you need to take into account at least both the Friday and Monday in some countries. Keith P.S. Trying to avoid every religious and public holiday is an impossible task. Do what other organizations have done and concentrate on the impact of such holidays on holding the meeting in any location. -Original Message- From: wgchairs-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:wgchairs-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of IETF Administrative Director Sent: 20 July 2012 17:06 To: IETF Announcement List Cc: i...@ietf.org; i...@iab.org; ietf@ietf.org; wgcha...@ietf.org Subject: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
RE: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
At 07:28 AM 7/23/2012, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) wrote: Let's forget the religious discussion that seems to have broken out as a result of this. While Easter may be a major Christian festival, I don't believe the issue is such (I can think of no reasons why Christians would have a doctrinal reason other than those that apply to any other Sunday and those obligations could mostly be met at the venue rather than at home). Rather it is Easter the secular public holiday that happens to occur in many countries. This is the set of days when schools take an extended break, parents take said children off on short holidays; cheap air tickets cease to be available; when you get on the plane, it is full of screaming children; kinda like we're all going to experience at next year's IETF86 timed exactly in the middle of US spring break going to/from Orlando (home to 4(?) amusement parks including Disneyworld)? Air travel will be crazy (families book tickets many months - like 6 - in advance), and depending on which hotel we're in, it could be worse than staying at the airport each day. -j local transport all works to a reduced timetable; for those IETFers who end up wishing to travel by train, they find themselves moving to busses to cater for the engineering works which a 4 day weekend seems to encourage. So my advice would be, change the dates if it looks like you are going to hold the meeting in a country that takes such holidays, or where a significant number of people would need to transit through such a country. If so you need to take into account at least both the Friday and Monday in some countries. Keith P.S. Trying to avoid every religious and public holiday is an impossible task. Do what other organizations have done and concentrate on the impact of such holidays on holding the meeting in any location. -Original Message- From: wgchairs-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:wgchairs-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of IETF Administrative Director Sent: 20 July 2012 17:06 To: IETF Announcement List Cc: i...@ietf.org; i...@iab.org; ietf@ietf.org; wgcha...@ietf.org Subject: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Fri, 20 Jul 2012, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: I don't understand why this issue is coming up. Maybe you don't know, IETF 84 falls in the month of Ramadan for Muslims and nobody asked to change it? I think focusing on the religious roots of the holiday is misguided. The question is what effect the holiday is likely to have on meeting attendance. I think the IETF also tries to avoid secular holidays that would interfere with the attendance of a large number of typical IETF attendees. Here's an example: we avoid the (secular) Thanksgiving holiday in the US -- it falls on a Thursday in late November, and it's common for people to take both the Thursday and Friday as holiday. Thanksgiving is such a big deal in the US, and we get so many US attendees, that the IETF would avoid that holiday no matter where the meeting was being held. Similarly, I think we would take into account local and regional holidays at our meeting sites, both religious and secular. We would probably avoid having a meeting in Amsterdam's center (or, really, anywhere in the Netherlands) on Queen's Day. Would overlapping with Easter draw down attendance enough to warrant avoiding it? Probably. It's a big enough risk that shifting a week seems sane. While Ramadan is religiously very significant, I think it is observed by relatively few of our regular meeting attendees and even those that do observe it may be willing to travel during it. Hence the difference in how they're being handled. -- Sam
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
John Levine wrote: [ Charset UTF-8 unsupported, converting... ] You're not going to find cool temperatures again in July or August unless you go as far south as Argentina or New Zealand. Not only is there life north of the 60th parallel (N), there are even hotels and restaurants and airports. Anchorage is probably large enough for an IETF meeting, although trying to hold a meeting there during tourist season would almost certainly be a mistake. But still. I believe it, but remember that the issue was to minimize daylight fasting during the North American summer. Reykjavik is big enough, too, and has the advantage of being roughly equally inconvenient to get to from North America and Europe. We could have the social event at the Blue Lagoon. The issue with Reykjavik is more about is closeness to the Arctic circle. You don't seem to have a lot of sunsetnight there during the summer. Take into account that ramadan is related to the lunar calender and is 11 days earlier every year to the next (on the gregorian calendar) then a hypothetical IETF meeting in Reykjavik, 22th June - 26th June 2015 could turn out challenging for some folks. The currently scheduled date for IETF 93 is 19-24 July, 2015, so I assume it will be after Ramadan. -Martin
RE: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
By cutting the sunrise-to-sunset fasting period of the day to a much shorter period. Actually, the first day of this IETF (and the last of IETF54) were very interesting for those fasting on the 9th of Av fast day and having to travel westwards. Flying west during the fast increases its duration, for example from Jerusalem to Vancouver there is a 10 hour time zone difference, so instead of 25 hours the fast increases to 35 hours without food or water. Y(J)S
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Jul 22, 2012, at 4:42 AM, Ofer Inbar wrote: Glen Zorn glenz...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, 2012-07-21 at 13:25 -0700, Martin Thomson wrote: On 21 July 2012 06:55, Yoav Nir y...@checkpoint.com wrote: This year Ramadan started yesterday, and ends on August 19. Moving the meeting one week in either direction would not have helped. But moving it to the southern hemisphere would have. How? By cutting the sunrise-to-sunset fasting period of the day to a much shorter period. That, and although not relevant to Vancouver so much, going without water on a hot summer day is much harder than doing the same on a winter day. It's winter in the southern hemisphere. Of course, Glen is in Bangkok, so it's hot any day of the year. Yoav
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
It is my understanding that for these types of reasons (and others), folks who are adhering to Ramadan can eat while traveling and if they are sick. And agreed to previous point that the southern hemisphere may have been less impacting in this particular case (given overlap during IETF in northern hemisphere In summer). That said, moving the meeting further south would have helped as well vs. How far north Vancouver is. Victor K Sent from my iPad On 2012-07-22, at 2:36 AM, Yaakov Stein yaako...@rad.com wrote: By cutting the sunrise-to-sunset fasting period of the day to a much shorter period. Actually, the first day of this IETF (and the last of IETF54) were very interesting for those fasting on the 9th of Av fast day and having to travel westwards. Flying west during the fast increases its duration, for example from Jerusalem to Vancouver there is a 10 hour time zone difference, so instead of 25 hours the fast increases to 35 hours without food or water. Y(J)S
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
That said, moving the meeting further south would have helped as well vs. How far north Vancouver is. Summer daytime temperatures in Vancouver are typically 20c or lower, while in the southern US they're usually over 30c. I'm not sure that would be an improvement. You're not going to find cool temperatures again in July or August unless you go as far south as Argentina or New Zealand. R's, John
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On 7/22/12 6:10 AM, Victor Kuarsingh wrote: It is my understanding that for these types of reasons (and others), folks who are adhering to Ramadan can eat while traveling and if they are sick. I'd be a lot more comfortable with people describing/speaking up for their own religious requirements. That said, moving the meeting further south would have helped as well vs. How far north Vancouver is. I'm having to travel quite far south to get to Vancouver. That participants are spattered across the planet is part of the scheduling challenge. Melinda
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On 7/22/12 8:04 AM, John Levine wrote: You're not going to find cool temperatures again in July or August unless you go as far south as Argentina or New Zealand. Not only is there life north of the 60th parallel (N), there are even hotels and restaurants and airports. Anchorage is probably large enough for an IETF meeting, although trying to hold a meeting there during tourist season would almost certainly be a mistake. But still. Melinda
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
I think you should look into the possibility. January maybe, or February, give our attendees some sense of what cold and dark really means :-) Much more productive when you can't leave the building... Ole Ole J. Jacobsen Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal Cisco Systems Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 E-mail: o...@cisco.com URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj Skype: organdemo On Sun, 22 Jul 2012, Melinda Shore wrote: On 7/22/12 8:04 AM, John Levine wrote: You're not going to find cool temperatures again in July or August unless you go as far south as Argentina or New Zealand. Not only is there life north of the 60th parallel (N), there are even hotels and restaurants and airports. Anchorage is probably large enough for an IETF meeting, although trying to hold a meeting there during tourist season would almost certainly be a mistake. But still. Melinda
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Jul 22, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Melinda Shore wrote: I'd be a lot more comfortable with people describing/speaking up for their own religious requirements. That's no fun. We're much more loquacious when we're talking about other peoples religions, other people's laws, other people's gender issues, other people's food sensitivities, and so on.
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
You're not going to find cool temperatures again in July or August unless you go as far south as Argentina or New Zealand. Not only is there life north of the 60th parallel (N), there are even hotels and restaurants and airports. Anchorage is probably large enough for an IETF meeting, although trying to hold a meeting there during tourist season would almost certainly be a mistake. But still. I believe it, but remember that the issue was to minimize daylight fasting during the North American summer. Reykjavik is big enough, too, and has the advantage of being roughly equally inconvenient to get to from North America and Europe. We could have the social event at the Blue Lagoon. R's, John
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On 7/22/12 11:25 AM, John Levine wrote: I believe it, but remember that the issue was to minimize daylight fasting during the North American summer. Moderate temperatures were thrown into the mix, which I guess provides a pretty good illustration of the challenges of making everybody happy. Frankly, I understand that some people have health challenges that make it important to avoid very hot weather but for the most part I think people should stop being such delicate flowers and just deal with it (and I say this as someone who really, really dislikes hot weather). At any rate, I'm really not sure what to do about the religious holiday situation although I tend to agree that it might not be a terrible idea to treat all religions equally, even if ultimately that means ignoring all religious holidays for scheduling purposes. Melinda
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
I'd support a date change for IETF 95 but it should be the week of the 14th to take into account Palm Sunday and Good Friday. As to Ramadan, I too would like to understand if there is a need to take this holiday into account, and what would be the practical way to do that?
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On 21/07/2012 02:30, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: On Jul 20, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: As for the Ramadan issue: we've had IETF meetings during Jewish holidays a few times, and folks dealt with it as best they can. If there are some accommodations that can be made at any IETF meeting for different holidays of major religions, I would bet that IETF Secretariat would be glad to hear them. It comes down to adding them to the clash list... (which is at http://www.ietf.org/meeting/clash-list.html) And we know that if we did that, on top of all the other technical meetings that we have to avoid, the result would be overconstrained and scheduling would become impossible. IMNSHO we need to treat all religious constraints alike, and in practice that means ignoring them. For practical reasons, we can't ignore major holidays - not because some of them are religious, but because they block up hotels and airlines. Finding the least bad solution is always going to be a compromise, and I thank the IAOC for continuing to plan several years ahead. Brian
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Sat, 2012-07-21 at 01:30 +, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: On Jul 20, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: As for the Ramadan issue: we've had IETF meetings during Jewish holidays a few times, and folks dealt with it as best they can. If there are some accommodations that can be made at any IETF meeting for different holidays of major religions, I would bet that IETF Secretariat would be glad to hear them. It comes down to adding them to the clash list... Wow, if I'd known that before I'd have added my daughter's birthday (9 Nov) to the list about 25 years ago; maybe I wouldn't have been at IETF meetings for all but two...
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
As for the Ramadan issue you deserve to deal with surly folk such as i when we have not eaten for twelve hours. randy
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Jul 21, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: I'd support a date change for IETF 95 but it should be the week of the 14th to take into account Palm Sunday and Good Friday. As to Ramadan, I too would like to understand if there is a need to take this holiday into account, and what would be the practical way to do that? My Moslem coworkers, some more observant, some less so, all come to work on Ramadan. Ramadan lasts a whole month (well, a whole lunar cycle), and involves fasting from sunrise to sunset. This is relatively OK when Ramadan falls in winter, but more painful when it falls in summer. This year Ramadan started yesterday, and ends on August 19. Moving the meeting one week in either direction would not have helped. Yoav
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
You can just plan one at anytime but in the early morning. This would help and will come before the tiring part is taking place. Best Regards Muhammad Badi On Jul 21, 2012, at 4:55 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: On Jul 21, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: I'd support a date change for IETF 95 but it should be the week of the 14th to take into account Palm Sunday and Good Friday. As to Ramadan, I too would like to understand if there is a need to take this holiday into account, and what would be the practical way to do that? My Moslem coworkers, some more observant, some less so, all come to work on Ramadan. Ramadan lasts a whole month (well, a whole lunar cycle), and involves fasting from sunrise to sunset. This is relatively OK when Ramadan falls in winter, but more painful when it falls in summer. This year Ramadan started yesterday, and ends on August 19. Moving the meeting one week in either direction would not have helped. Yoav
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On 21 July 2012 06:55, Yoav Nir y...@checkpoint.com wrote: This year Ramadan started yesterday, and ends on August 19. Moving the meeting one week in either direction would not have helped. But moving it to the southern hemisphere would have.
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
From: James Polk jmp...@cisco.com outstanding - now we can't meet that whole year... ;-) Particularly since in _my_ religion, our religious days consist of the set of days which _aren't_ religious holidays in any other religion... :-) Noel
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Sat, 2012-07-21 at 13:25 -0700, Martin Thomson wrote: On 21 July 2012 06:55, Yoav Nir y...@checkpoint.com wrote: This year Ramadan started yesterday, and ends on August 19. Moving the meeting one week in either direction would not have helped. But moving it to the southern hemisphere would have. How?
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
Glen Zorn glenz...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, 2012-07-21 at 13:25 -0700, Martin Thomson wrote: On 21 July 2012 06:55, Yoav Nir y...@checkpoint.com wrote: This year Ramadan started yesterday, and ends on August 19. Moving the meeting one week in either direction would not have helped. But moving it to the southern hemisphere would have. How? By cutting the sunrise-to-sunset fasting period of the day to a much shorter period. -- Cos
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Sat, 2012-07-21 at 21:42 -0400, Ofer Inbar wrote: Glen Zorn glenz...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, 2012-07-21 at 13:25 -0700, Martin Thomson wrote: On 21 July 2012 06:55, Yoav Nir y...@checkpoint.com wrote: This year Ramadan started yesterday, and ends on August 19. Moving the meeting one week in either direction would not have helped. But moving it to the southern hemisphere would have. How? By cutting the sunrise-to-sunset fasting period of the day to a much shorter period. I see. Well, look on the bright side: the meeting could have been in Reykjavik ;-). -- Cos attachment: face-wink.png
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
I see. Well, look on the bright side: the meeting could have been in Reykjavik ;-). Yes, that would have been bright, wouldn't it? R's, John PS: sure like those hot dogs, though.
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
What a perspective refresher - March 2016! My projects end 2013. Those which have not yet started end 2015. 2015 is the deadline for fire detectors being mandatory in EU. 2018 - maybe a new metro line near where I live, but not known underground or above. 2016 new presidential elections here, but the precise date may not be set. 2016 is really far away. Easter - there is almost always a multiple week difference between Catholic and Orthodox. Yours, Alex Le 20/07/2012 18:06, IETF Administrative Director a écrit : The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On 7/20/12 09:06 , IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. 20 march is palm sunday on the western calender. If one's a conflict presumably the other is too... Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Jul 20, 2012, at 9:36 AM, Joel jaeggli wrote: On 7/20/12 09:06 , IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. 20 march is palm sunday on the western calender. If one's a conflict presumably the other is too... I personally avoid being away from home on Easter, and would prefer that the IETF meeting avoid it. Yes, Palm Sunday is a question, but not quite on the same scale as Easter. I will note, however, that Good Friday (the Friday before Easter) is a national holiday in a number of countries. People schedule vacations around that weekend. My suggestion: take the week of April 3 or later.
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Jul 20, 2012, at 9:06 AM, IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director 2016 is far away but UCLA has calendars that far out ;) The new dates (20 - 25 March 2016) are much better, that is our spring break week. Our spring 2016 teaching starts Monday 3/28/2016 (for all UC campuses except Berkeley, and perhaps other schools running quarter system), making it almost impossible to travel. Lixia
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
As long as you don't go any later than the week of April 10 - the week of April 17 runs into the start of Passover. Thanks, Andy On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Fred Baker (fred) f...@cisco.com wrote: On Jul 20, 2012, at 9:36 AM, Joel jaeggli wrote: On 7/20/12 09:06 , IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. 20 march is palm sunday on the western calender. If one's a conflict presumably the other is too... I personally avoid being away from home on Easter, and would prefer that the IETF meeting avoid it. Yes, Palm Sunday is a question, but not quite on the same scale as Easter. I will note, however, that Good Friday (the Friday before Easter) is a national holiday in a number of countries. People schedule vacations around that weekend. My suggestion: take the week of April 3 or later.
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
For convenience, the complete list: http://www.interfaithcalendar.org/2016.htm On Jul 20, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Andrew G. Malis wrote: As long as you don't go any later than the week of April 10 - the week of April 17 runs into the start of Passover. Thanks, Andy On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Fred Baker (fred) f...@cisco.com wrote: On Jul 20, 2012, at 9:36 AM, Joel jaeggli wrote: On 7/20/12 09:06 , IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. 20 march is palm sunday on the western calender. If one's a conflict presumably the other is too... I personally avoid being away from home on Easter, and would prefer that the IETF meeting avoid it. Yes, Palm Sunday is a question, but not quite on the same scale as Easter. I will note, however, that Good Friday (the Friday before Easter) is a national holiday in a number of countries. People schedule vacations around that weekend. My suggestion: take the week of April 3 or later.
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
I don't understand why this issue is coming up. Maybe you don't know, IETF 84 falls in the month of Ramadan for Muslims and nobody asked to change it? My 2 cents. Behcet On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 11:06 AM, IETF Administrative Director i...@ietf.org wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
RE: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
Ray: I'm fine with the change Cheers, Pascal -Original Message- From: ietf-announce-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-announce-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of IETF Administrative Director Sent: vendredi 20 juillet 2012 18:06 To: IETF Announcement List Cc: i...@ietf.org; i...@iab.org; ietf@ietf.org; wgcha...@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org Subject: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
RE: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
I support the change and would not make it there on Easter. Thank you, Kathleen -Original Message- From: wgchairs-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:wgchairs-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of IETF Administrative Director Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 12:06 PM To: IETF Announcement List Cc: i...@ietf.org; i...@iab.org; ietf@ietf.org; wgcha...@ietf.org Subject: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
RE: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
I think it should be changed. But, it seems like the week later rather than earlier would be a better choice due to the fact that the week before Easter is often Spring break for many schools, impacting travel and increasing the likelihood of personal conflicts for attendees. Is there a conflict for the week of April 3 that makes it not an option? John -Original Message- From: ietf-announce-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-announce-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of IETF Administrative Director Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 12:06 PM To: IETF Announcement List Cc: i...@ietf.org; i...@iab.org; ietf@ietf.org; wgcha...@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org Subject: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
At 12:58 PM 7/20/2012, Richard L. Barnes wrote: For convenience, the complete list: http://www.interfaithcalendar.org/2016.htm outstanding - now we can't meet that whole year... ;-) On Jul 20, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Andrew G. Malis wrote: As long as you don't go any later than the week of April 10 - the week of April 17 runs into the start of Passover. Thanks, Andy On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Fred Baker (fred) f...@cisco.com wrote: On Jul 20, 2012, at 9:36 AM, Joel jaeggli wrote: On 7/20/12 09:06 , IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. 20 march is palm sunday on the western calender. If one's a conflict presumably the other is too... I personally avoid being away from home on Easter, and would prefer that the IETF meeting avoid it. Yes, Palm Sunday is a question, but not quite on the same scale as Easter. I will note, however, that Good Friday (the Friday before Easter) is a national holiday in a number of countries. People schedule vacations around that weekend. My suggestion: take the week of April 3 or later.
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
At 12:29 PM 7/20/2012, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: On Jul 20, 2012, at 9:36 AM, Joel jaeggli wrote: On 7/20/12 09:06 , IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. 20 march is palm sunday on the western calender. If one's a conflict presumably the other is too... I personally avoid being away from home on Easter, and would prefer that the IETF meeting avoid it. Yes, Palm Sunday is a question, but not quite on the same scale as Easter. I will note, however, that Good Friday (the Friday before Easter) is a national holiday in a number of countries. People schedule vacations around that weekend. My suggestion: take the week of April 3 or later. I agree Easter is a date to avoid, but am not offering which way to move the meeting. April 3rd of later seems interesting, but does start to impact the interval between this meeting and the summer one. James
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Jul 20, 2012, at 11:37 AM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: I don't understand why this issue is coming up. Maybe you don't know, IETF 84 falls in the month of Ramadan for Muslims and nobody asked to change it? Two comments, a question, and a suggestion. One, the muslims in the crowd had the opportunity, just as anyone else in the IETF did. I don't personally keep track of Ramadan, and I don't expect the muslims to keep track of Easter for me. I was glad to hear Andy's mention of Pesach; that's another one I wouldn't know. Two - that's a month, not a weekend or a day. The larger the interval you want to put off limits, the more interactions it has. If you are personally a Muslim, this is a question for you; if not, then its a question for the Muslims on the list. Easter is a day in which Christians do little besides Easter-related things - sunrise services, egg hunts (which I can explain how they relate to Easter, but you'll laugh, as it has nothing to do with the central issue of Easter), and general family time. Good Friday through Easter, as I mentioned, is a common vacation weekend in Europe apart from religious significance. Pesach (Passover, which is a day, and the days of unleavened bread, which are the following week) is eight days that observing Jews usually spend close to home - or in Jerusalem - for various reasons. Tell me about Ramadan? My understanding (http://www.wikihow.com/Celebrate-Ramadan) is that during Ramadan one wants to be not far from a Mosque and will want restaurants that cater to ḥalāl (which are generally true anyway). However, what I find on the net and get from Muslim friends is not don't travel during Ramadan; it's travel wisely during Ramadan (http://islam.about.com/od/dietarylaw/a/halal_travel.htm). Fasting has its issues, but if one is primarily eating after sundown, Muslim restaurants will be open after sundown, which coincidentally is the time that we set aside for dinner. Is there an expectation among Muslims that travel is to be avoided during Ramadan? Are there specific days in Ramadan that should be spent at home? I'd suggest that Muslims mark up https://www.ietf.org/registration/MeetingWiki/wiki/ietf84/ with Mosque locations and ḥalāl restaurants. http://www.islamicfinder.org/prayerDetail.php?city=Vancouverstate=BCcountry=canada
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
I don't think we should try to factor in Spring Break. Personally, I like it when the meeting overlaps with Spring Break because that introduces the possibility that my sons can travel with me depending upon the locale (they're old enough to care for themselves during the day). Even if they are at home, I am much comfortable with not having to worry about their school activities while I am gone. Also, the range of dates for Spring Break is extremely broad in my experience. So, this is very much a YMMV situation. While I very much disliked not being at home during Easter (and very much disliked missing Halloween when kids were young), it has happened and while it's not ideal, it just comes with a job that requires travel of an incredibly diverse group of people. As was pointed out by Richard with the 2016 dates, it's impossible to avoid religious holidays across the board (in particular given that many want the week before and the week after religious holiday weeks for various reasons). Regards, Mary. On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 11:53 AM, John Border john.bor...@hughes.comwrote: I think it should be changed. But, it seems like the week later rather than earlier would be a better choice due to the fact that the week before Easter is often Spring break for many schools, impacting travel and increasing the likelihood of personal conflicts for attendees. Is there a conflict for the week of April 3 that makes it not an option? John -Original Message- From: ietf-announce-boun...@ietf.org [mailto: ietf-announce-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of IETF Administrative Director Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 12:06 PM To: IETF Announcement List Cc: i...@ietf.org; i...@iab.org; ietf@ietf.org; wgcha...@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org Subject: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change The IAOC is seeking community feedback on a proposed date change for IETF 95 scheduled for March 2016. Currently IETF 95 is scheduled for 27 March to 1 April 2016. 27 March is Easter. The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On 7/20/12 12:42 , Mary Barnes wrote: Also, the range of dates for Spring Break is extremely broad in my experience. More than 6 months inclusive of the southern hemisphere.
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Jul 20, 2012, at 9:06 AM, IETF Administrative Director wrote: The IAOC is proposing IETF 95 be rescheduled for 20 - 25 March 2016 and would like feedback on those dates before making a decision. Comments appreciated to ietf@ietf.org by 6 August 2012. As much as I would love to see lots of people in their easter bonnets at the meet-and-greet, I think the move is a good one. As for the Ramadan issue: we've had IETF meetings during Jewish holidays a few times, and folks dealt with it as best they can. If there are some accommodations that can be made at any IETF meeting for different holidays of major religions, I would bet that IETF Secretariat would be glad to hear them. --Paul Hoffman
Re: Proposed IETF 95 Date Change
On Jul 20, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: As for the Ramadan issue: we've had IETF meetings during Jewish holidays a few times, and folks dealt with it as best they can. If there are some accommodations that can be made at any IETF meeting for different holidays of major religions, I would bet that IETF Secretariat would be glad to hear them. It comes down to adding them to the clash list...
