Re: [Int-area] [Tvr] Side meeting for Satellite networking in IETF 116

[Lin Han]

Mac/Jorge

See in line with [LH]

Regards

Lin

From: Jorge Amodio 
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2023 7:08 AM
To: Marc Blanchet 
Cc: Lin Han ; eto...@ietf.org; rt...@ietf.org; 
int-area@ietf.org; t...@ietf.org; Shangguang Wang ; 
liuji...@bupt.edu.cn; Yuanjie Li (李元杰) 
Subject: Re: [Tvr] Side meeting for Satellite networking in IETF 116


I agree with Marc's comment, it is really unfortunate that you scheduled this 
meeting in conflict with the DTN WF session given being one of the main 
applications of the DTN satellite networking :-(

[LH] There is another meeting just before us, so very likely our meeting will 
be starting a little later, that’s why I reserved 2:00hr for the room and have 
prepared for 0.5 hr delay. People who attended DTN (finished 11:30AM) still 
have chance to attend most of our meeting.
Also, we will post all materials for the presentation in the link.

What Working Group is associated with this meeting?
[LH] No WG yet, but the work It is related to RTGWG, TVR and MANET

Seems that all presenters will be from China, is that correct?

[LH] No, first two speakers (me and Tianji from China Mobile lab in USA) are 
both from USA.
We did have two speakers from Canada and UK at the beginning, unfortunately, 
they both cannot make it finally.
Satellite is a very special industry. I cannot get any one in USA (Starlink, 
ViaSat, Amazon, Boeing, etc) to IETF due to either sensitivity, or company 
approve or interest.
The meeting in IETF 116 will only focus on problem and use case due to time 
limit. We may have another meeting to discuss solutions. If you have other 
people who is interested in this area and like to contribute, let me know.

Regards
Jorge


On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 7:01 AM Marc Blanchet 
mailto:marc.blanc...@viagenie.ca>> wrote:


> Le 13 mars 2023 à 04:29, Lin Han 
> mailto:lin@futurewei.com>> a écrit :
>
> Hi,
>
> The side meeting for satellite networking is reserved on Mar. 28, Tuesday, 
> from 11:00AM to 12:30PM, in the room G301. See 
> https://wiki.ietf.org/meeting/116/sidemeetings<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.ietf.org%2Fmeeting%2F116%2Fsidemeetings=05%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Ceb57e768c828411cf16d08db23cc79d3%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C638143133356509344%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=DuRb1hb50zuAKu%2B3ybiJlz2edUl%2B9q4cL%2FqDmp1zAS8%3D=0>


It is unfortunate that this interesting side meeting have an overlap from 
11h00-11h30 with the DTN wg meeting, which I’m sure many participants may be 
overlapping. Consider moving to 11h30?

Marc.

>
> For the details of the meeting, see the link 
> https://github.com/lh95129/IETF-116-satellite-network-side-meeting<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Flh95129%2FIETF-116-satellite-network-side-meeting=05%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Ceb57e768c828411cf16d08db23cc79d3%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C638143133356665570%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=3M0HvA3H4kKbP0uSip%2BOcRA66m0erqQiP%2FPznK9cxo8%3D=0>.
>
> If you are interested in the similar works described in above link, pls join 
> us to discuss.
>
> Regards
>
> Lin
>
>
> --
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[Int-area] Side meeting for Satellite networking in IETF 116

[Lin Han]

Hi,

The side meeting for satellite networking is reserved on Mar. 28, Tuesday, from 
11:00AM to 12:30PM, in the room G301. See 
https://wiki.ietf.org/meeting/116/sidemeetings

For the details of the meeting, see the link 
https://github.com/lh95129/IETF-116-satellite-network-side-meeting. 

If you are interested in the similar works described in above link, pls join us 
to discuss.

Regards

Lin


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[Int-area] FW: New Version Notification for draft-lhan-satellite-instructive-routing-00.txt

[Lin Han]

Hello, all

We just published a new draft. It is about the routing solution for LEO 
satellite network. 
Please review it. All comments and questions are welcome!

Thanks

Lin

-Original Message-
From: internet-dra...@ietf.org  
Sent: Sunday, March 6, 2022 10:16 AM
To: Alvaro Retana ; Lin Han 
; Richard Li 
Subject: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-satellite-instructive-routing-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-satellite-instructive-routing-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:   draft-lhan-satellite-instructive-routing
Revision:   00
Title:  Semantic Address Based Instructive Routing for Satellite Network
Document date:  2022-03-06
Group:  Individual Submission
Pages:  25
URL:
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-lhan-satellite-instructive-routing-00.txtdata=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7C715944e13c4c46a1303108d9ff9d5dbc%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637821873631826778%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=V7mfEP8YQqjWRyfyuK8leI25nMsh4TVeg9Un9Qlj6FI%3Dreserved=0
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Htmlized:   
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-lhan-satellite-instructive-routingdata=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7C715944e13c4c46a1303108d9ff9d5dbc%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637821873631826778%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=OoTuPC3LqH8G0IIBd9vCOf2IsBUWnBHFGMiBbMTBwjE%3Dreserved=0


Abstract:
   This document presents a method to do IP routing over satellite
   network that consists of LEO (Low Earth Orbit) satellites and ground-
   stations.  The method uses the source routing mechanism.  The whole
   routing info is obtained by path calculation.  The routing path
   information is converted to be a list of instructions and embedded
   into user packet's IPv6 extension header.  At each hop or each
   satellite, the routing process engine will forward the packet based
   on the specified instruction for the satellite.  Until the packet
   reaches the edge of satellite network, or the last satellite, the
   packet will be sent to a ground station.


  


The IETF Secretariat


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[Int-area] FW: New Version Notification for draft-lhan-satellite-semantic-addressing-00.txt

[Lin Han]

Hi, 

This new draft proposes to use semantic address for satellite networking when 
Inter-satellite-link is used in the future big scale satellite constellation 
connected to Internet.
It can be used for routing and switching in a very dynamic but ordered 
satellite topology. More background information was described in the updated 
draft draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-01.

All discussion and comments are welcome.

Thanks

Lin

-Original Message-
From: internet-dra...@ietf.org  
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 2:35 PM
To: Lin Han ; Richard Li 
Subject: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-satellite-semantic-addressing-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-satellite-semantic-addressing-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:   draft-lhan-satellite-semantic-addressing
Revision:   00
Title:  Satellite Semantic Addressing for Satellite Constellation
Document date:  2021-10-19
Group:  Individual Submission
Pages:  20
URL:
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-lhan-satellite-semantic-addressing-00.txtdata=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cd735ba95f1544375b1a408d993483cb3%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637702760750958887%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=DHQLo%2BlyojRSipaxlzCNKCpDXr4Zmb7XUECPjJUqzqE%3Dreserved=0
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Html:   
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Htmlized:   
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Abstract:
   This document presents a semantic addressing method for satellites in
   satellite constellation connecting with Internet.  The satellite
   semantic address can indicate the relative position of satellites in
   a constellation.  The address can be used with traditional IP address
   or MAC address or used independently for IP routing and switching.


  


The IETF Secretariat


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Re: [Int-area] Call for Agenda Items @IETF111

[Lin Han]

Hi, Chairs of Int-area

I’d like to request a time slot for the presentation below:

Abstract:
   This document presents the detailed analysis about the problems and
   requirements of satellite constellation used for Internet.  It starts
   from the satellite orbit basics, coverage calculation, then it
   estimates the time constraints for the communications between
   satellite and ground-station, also between satellites.  How to use
   satellite constellation for Internet is discussed in details
   including the satellite relay and satellite networking.  The problems
   and requirements of using traditional network technology for
   satellite network integrating with Internet are finally outlined.

Draft name:
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net/

Time requested:
15mins.

Thanks

Lin

From: Int-area  On Behalf Of Wassim Haddad
Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 9:41 AM
To: int-area@ietf.org
Cc: intarea-cha...@ietf.org
Subject: [Int-area] Call for Agenda Items @IETF111

Dear all,

In preparation for the Intarea WG meeting (scheduled on Friday, 07/30), please 
send agenda requests to the chairs.
Please indicate short abstract, draft name and time requested


Thanks,

Juan & Wassim
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Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Lin Han]

== trim the message for int-area size requirement

Hi, Hesham

The draft does not want to touch the territory of 3GPP. Having said that, all 
radio, signal process, coding, wireless resource management, 4G/5G integration, 
etc. are not in the scope of the draft.
The intention of the draft is to only address the problems and solution for 
satellite networking when routing and switching technologies are used.

Thanks
Lin

From: Hesham ElBakoury 
Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 10:51 AM
To: Lin Han 
Cc: UTTARO, JAMES ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; 
rt...@ietf.org; sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt


Hi Lin,

Is the integration of 5G and satellite networks part of your research ?. 3GPP 
has started the work on this integration and already has work items (WI) for 
Rel 17 and 18 to address this issue. There are already few recent related 
publications. For example, here is a recent survey: 
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9193893<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fdocument%2F9193893=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7C89587d9f2e774a787c0f08d94302285d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637614498840617824%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=%2BZsBixpOZ9Z2ktNZBPAU2%2FORKMJvXsoSln8MPxYmNTc%3D=0>.
 I am not sure if O-RAN is currently working on this issue ?

Thanks

Hesham

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Re: [Int-area] [EXTERNAL] Re: New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Lin Han]

Hi, Alexander and all

Thanks for the info and comments for LI.
After reading RFC 3924 and "LI from ETSI", my feeling is that the scope of LI 
for satellite networking will be pretty big and easy to be confusing, so I 
would think there should have a sperate draft talking about it. The current 
draft will add reference to it.

Comments?

Lin

From: Alexander Vainshtein 
Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 8:02 AM
To: Brian Carpenter ; Stewart Bryant 

Cc: Lin Han ; i...@ietf.org; INT Area 
; sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk; UTTARO, JAMES ; 
rt...@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Brian, Stewart and all,
RFC 2804  notwithstanding, IETF has published RFC 
3924<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc3924=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7C33a7fde993294a82e37f08d942ea8b2f%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637614397424639764%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=CeckOIzWQoHoi3AAQamkMr1hPHRgOU5Jjvvqsxg%2B3Dk%3D=0>
  on Cisco LI Architecture.
This is not a formal contradiction, since 3924 has been published as 
Informational.
Can this be used as a precedent?




Get Outlook for 
Android<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2FAAb9ysg=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7C33a7fde993294a82e37f08d942ea8b2f%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637614397424649756%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=6p8IBI%2F9PCrbIs%2B7mVx547Ni%2Fr5ogB7bnknj4x2ZVnA%3D=0>


From: rtgwg mailto:rtgwg-boun...@ietf.org>> on behalf 
of Brian Carpenter 
mailto:brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021, 10:25
To: Stewart Bryant
Cc: Lin Han; i...@ietf.org<mailto:i...@ietf.org>; INT Area; 
sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk>; UTTARO, JAMES; 
rt...@ietf.org<mailto:rt...@ietf.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt


The IETF position on LI is not exactly that it's anathema, but that we will not 
standardise *any* intercept techniques, legal or otherwise. RFC 2804.

Regards,
Brian Carpenter
(via tiny screen & keyboard)

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, 18:33 Stewart Bryant, 
mailto:stewart.bry...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Unfortunately LI is not our call.

I know the IETF finds it an anathema but it is an unspoken (in IETF) reality of 
the telecommunications industry.

The concept of a huge number of highly portable, highly directional, microwave 
links that are then relayed opaquely to a foreign country is going to delight 
some agencies and give heartburn to their colleagues in other parts of the same 
agency cluster.

I think that we can all postulate how this would (will) be solved in a 
mega-cluster owned by a large ITU region 2 country, or a particularly large 
Asian country but I assume we want to design a global / universal system rather 
than one that will otherwise inevitably be partitioned due to geo-political 
security concerns.

Stewart

Sent from my iPad




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Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Lin Han]

Hi, Stewart,

What does "LI" stand for?
ISL is not mature enough for real adoption.
The academia research suggested to use laser instead of microwave. When laser 
is used for ISL, there should not have spectrum license issue, I don't see the 
ITU or USA has spectrum allocation for the frequency of laser (400THz~700THz).

Lin

From: Stewart Bryant 
Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2021 7:19 AM
To: Hesham ElBakoury 
Cc: Stewart Bryant ; Lin Han ; 
Int-area@ietf.org; sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk; rt...@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES 
; i...@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

The thing that worries me about iSL is whether the inability to do LI will 
prohibit licensing in some countries.

- Stewart




On 7 Jul 2021, at 03:51, Hesham ElBakoury 
mailto:helbako...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Mark Handley published the paper "Using ground relays for low-latency wide-area 
routing in megaconstellations" to show that even if we do not have ISL we can 
use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency than fiber links.

Thanks
Hesham


On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han 
mailto:lin@futurewei.com>> wrote:
Hi, Jim

I don't have clear answer.
What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with enhancement) 
can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to solve the satellite 
specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent topology changes, constraints 
in satellite power, security in open space, etc.
It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new 
protocols will be developed.

Regards

Lin


-Original Message-
From: UTTARO, JAMES mailto:ju1...@att.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
To: Lin Han mailto:lin@futurewei.com>>; 
Int-area@ietf.org<mailto:Int-area@ietf.org>; 
i...@ietf.org<mailto:i...@ietf.org>; rt...@ietf.org<mailto:rt...@ietf.org>
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Lin,

Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used with 
or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network require 
new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out..

Thanks,
Jim Uttaro

-Original Message-
From: Idr mailto:idr-boun...@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Lin 
Han
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
To: Int-area@ietf.org<mailto:Int-area@ietf.org>; 
i...@ietf.org<mailto:i...@ietf.org>; rt...@ietf.org<mailto:rt...@ietf.org>
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk>
Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Hi,

This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite network 
when it is integrated with Internet by current routing technologies.
It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further solution 
proposals may also come from different groups including research initiative 
SARAH.

Look forwarding to discussion and comments.

Thanks

Lin

-Original Message-
From: internet-dra...@ietf.org<mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org> 
mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org>>
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
To: Lin Han mailto:lin@futurewei.com>>; Richard Li 
mailto:richard...@futurewei.com>>
Subject: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
Revision:   00
Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for 
Internet
Document date:  2021-07-03
Group:  Individual Submission
Pages:  32
URL:
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DqoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg%24data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=xeP%2BMuWGk%2By8UtK8K9Oinjvk50jBp%2FuZQ2<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlo

Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Lin Han]

Hi, Hesham

Thanks for the info.
The reference from prof. Mark has been given in the draft as [UCL-Mark-Handley] 
(sec. 7.2.2), the paper has demonstrated that satellite relay can achieve 
shorter latency than ground fiber network through simulation.
But for commercial use and widely deployment, IETF still needs 
technologies/protocols to solve issues in "multiple satellite relay", such as 
path/satellite selection, IP continuity, etc. Enhanced or new anchor-less 
mobility technologies might be needed to handle so quick/frequent hands over 
and topology changes.

Regards

Lin

From: Hesham ElBakoury 
Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:51 PM
To: Lin Han 
Cc: UTTARO, JAMES ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; 
rt...@ietf.org; sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Mark Handley published the paper "Using ground relays for low-latency wide-area 
routing in megaconstellations" to show that even if we do not have ISL we can 
use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency than fiber links.

Thanks
Hesham


On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han 
mailto:lin@futurewei.com>> wrote:
Hi, Jim

I don't have clear answer.
What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with enhancement) 
can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to solve the satellite 
specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent topology changes, constraints 
in satellite power, security in open space, etc.
It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new 
protocols will be developed.

Regards

Lin


-Original Message-
From: UTTARO, JAMES mailto:ju1...@att.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
To: Lin Han mailto:lin@futurewei.com>>; 
Int-area@ietf.org<mailto:Int-area@ietf.org>; 
i...@ietf.org<mailto:i...@ietf.org>; rt...@ietf.org<mailto:rt...@ietf.org>
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Lin,

Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used with 
or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network require 
new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out..

Thanks,
Jim Uttaro

-Original Message-----
From: Idr mailto:idr-boun...@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Lin 
Han
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
To: Int-area@ietf.org<mailto:Int-area@ietf.org>; 
i...@ietf.org<mailto:i...@ietf.org>; rt...@ietf.org<mailto:rt...@ietf.org>
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk>
Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Hi,

This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite network 
when it is integrated with Internet by current routing technologies.
It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further solution 
proposals may also come from different groups including research initiative 
SARAH.

Look forwarding to discussion and comments.

Thanks

Lin

-Original Message-
From: internet-dra...@ietf.org<mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org> 
mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org>>
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
To: Lin Han mailto:lin@futurewei.com>>; Richard Li 
mailto:richard...@futurewei.com>>
Subject: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
Revision:   00
Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for 
Internet
Document date:  2021-07-03
Group:  Individual Submission
Pages:  32
URL:
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DqoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg%24data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=xeP%2BMuWGk%2By8UtK8K9Oinjvk50jBp%2FuZQ2<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.

Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Lin Han]

Hi, Jim

I don't have clear answer.
What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with enhancement) 
can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to solve the satellite 
specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent topology changes, constraints 
in satellite power, security in open space, etc.
It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new 
protocols will be developed.

Regards

Lin


-Original Message-
From: UTTARO, JAMES  
Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
To: Lin Han ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; 
rt...@ietf.org
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: RE: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Lin,

Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used with 
or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network require 
new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out.. 

Thanks,
Jim Uttaro

-Original Message-
From: Idr  On Behalf Of Lin Han
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
To: Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; rt...@ietf.org
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Hi, 

This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite network 
when it is integrated with Internet by current routing technologies. 
It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further solution 
proposals may also come from different groups including research initiative 
SARAH.

Look forwarding to discussion and comments.

Thanks

Lin

-Original Message-
From: internet-dra...@ietf.org  
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
To: Lin Han ; Richard Li 
Subject: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
Revision:   00
Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for 
Internet
Document date:  2021-07-03
Group:  Individual Submission
Pages:  32
URL:
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DqoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg%24data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=xeP%2BMuWGk%2By8UtK8K9Oinjvk50jBp%2FuZQ2
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[Int-area] FW: New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Lin Han]

Hi, 

This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite network 
when it is integrated with Internet by current routing technologies. 
It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further solution 
proposals may also come from different groups including research initiative 
SARAH.

Look forwarding to discussion and comments.

Thanks

Lin

-Original Message-
From: internet-dra...@ietf.org  
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
To: Lin Han ; Richard Li 
Subject: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
Revision:   00
Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for 
Internet
Document date:  2021-07-03
Group:  Individual Submission
Pages:  32
URL:
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txtdata=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637609540278583772%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=qoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx%2F4OjIhXHoY%2BrdbcM%2FMntM%3Dreserved=0
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Abstract:
   This document presents the detailed analysis about the problems and
   requirements of satellite constellation used for Internet.  It starts
   from the satellite orbit basics, coverage calculation, then it
   estimates the time constraints for the communications between
   satellite and ground-station, also between satellites.  How to use
   satellite constellation for Internet is discussed in details
   including the satellite relay and satellite networking.  The problems
   and requirements of using traditional network technology for
   satellite network integrating with Internet are finally outlined.


  


The IETF Secretariat


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Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
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Re: [Int-area] The small address use case in FlexIP

[Lin Han]

Hi, Behcet and authors:



I think ROHC can still be used for flexIP to further reduce the L3-L4 header 
size.

To my understanding, the advantage of flexIP is to change the rigid 
size/semantics of IPv6 to IP with flexibility in both size and semantics. 
Shorter address is only one benefit, variable size with different semantics of 
address can open opportunities for security/privacy, also may simplify the IP 
assignment process that is overhead in wireless access (NAS) for massive IOT 
devices in 5G network.



But I have questions to authors:



1.  From the two drafts, I cannot figure out what will be the header format for 
flexIP, are you going to have a separate draft to address this?

2.  According to the scope, flexible IP will be used for a network connected to 
IPv6 backbone, is that reasonable to assume the flexible IP size will be less 
than 128bit because the limited flexIP network should be smaller than whole 
IPv6 based internet?



Thanks





Lin





> On 3 Feb 2021, at 15:38, Behcet Sarikaya 
>  wrote:

>

> Hi Stewart,

>

> Thanks for your analysis.

> I haven't read the drafts you mentioned but I thought that the address size 
> issue was long resolved with the IPv6:

>

> basically it matters on the wireless medium and this is solved by the 
> so-called ROHC RObust Header Compression,

> which is adapted by 5G and it works well.

> Wired medium case which seems to be the main focus according to your mail, 
> was considered moot, the routers would be able handle it and on the medium it 
> does not delay things much.

>

> Behcet

>

> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 8:09 AM Stewart Bryant 
> mailto:stewart.bry...@gmail.com> 
> > wrote:

>

> Re drafts:

>

> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-structure/
>  
> 

> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure/ 
> 

> I have a number of comments these drafts, but in this email I would like to 
> focus on the small address proposal. By this I mean addresses that are 
> shorter than 64bits.

>

> It seems to me that there are 3 operational reasons for small addresses:

>

> 1) That you might be worried about the amount of packet taken up by the 
> addresses.

>

> 2) That you might be worried about the amount of energy required to send a 
> packet.

>

> 3) That you want to use an address that is somehow native to a legacy 
> application.

>

> ... and there are at least to implementation reasons:

>

> 4) That you might be worried about the amount of memory in the FIB.

>

> 5) That you might wish to optimise out the FIB hardware.

>

> There are two approaches to the case of addresses that are are relatively 
> short, where for the purposes of this discussion I define "relatively short" 
> as an address between 8 and 64 bits in length.

>

> One approach is to design and implement a new packet type, be that an 
> original design, or the repurposing of a suitable existing non-IP design. If 
> that is what you have in mind it would greatly assist consideration of your 
> work if you published that design in the IETF, or at least pointed to it as 
> an accessible document. That would allow us to debate the properties of the 
> packet and or your address proposal in the context of the packet design. An 
> alternative approach which needs to be considered is to make the FlexIP 
> address a suffix of an existing and well known address type such as IPv6. In 
> such a case by standardising the corresponding IPv6 prefix you may produce 
> implementation simplifications, or alternatively by making it a prefix well 
> known in the domain you construct quite an effective leakage prevention 
> mechanism.

>

> Consider the IPv6 suffix case. Validating a well-know prefix before invoking 
> the address lookup machinery is a simple efficient process using either one 
> of more compare operators, or some hw technique such as a special register. 
> Certainly we could build hw to look up a small set of well-known prefixes 
> that burns a lot less energy than used in a full address lookup. So that 
> brings us to