Re: [Int-area] FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-intarea-gre-mtu-00.txt

2013-06-03 Thread Joe Touch



On 5/29/2013 1:06 PM, Linda Dunbar wrote:

Ron,

I do have a few questions and suggestion about the practices documented in the 
draft:

- Section 4.1, second paragraph:
why DF bit MUST set to 1  when the payload header has 0? I would think default should 
be same as the payload DF setting.


It depends on the goal:

The current mechanism always sets DF=1 so it (GRE) can discover the 
tunnel MTU.


Setting it to match would expose the endpoint to the overall path MTU, 
but comes at a risk. If a packet is too big somewhere inside the tunnel, 
that router will send an ICMP that goes back to the tunnel ingress -- 
which might not have enough information to relay an ICMP back to the source.


This was discussed here:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels

(this is still a WG doc, but we didn't get much feedback on the issues 
back in 2010 - maybe it's time to revive and complete it??)


...

- There should be two options when the encapsulated data frame
exceeds MTU: a) split the data frame to two smaller frames, with each
frame being encapsulated;


FWIW, fragmentation rarely splits things into equal sizes; it's more 
typical to split into max that fits and leftover.


Joe
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Re: [Int-area] FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-intarea-gre-mtu-00.txt

2013-05-30 Thread Linda Dunbar
Ron, 

Comments are inserted below:

 -Original Message-
 
 Just to be sure that we aren't talking past each other, let's ensure
 that we are talking about the same scenario. The GRE egress router
 receives
 complete, non-fragmented packets, containing fragmented payloads. 

[Linda] The scenario I am talking about is: 
   The packet arriving at the Ingress node is has packet size less than the 
MTU. When the ingress node adds the GRE header, the new packet size exceeds the 
MTU. When this happens, the Ingress node has to break the received the packet 
to two (half) frames, encapsulate each half frame with proper GRE header, and 
send two separate encapsulated frames to Egress node. 


Is this same as your scenario?  From your description below, it doesn't sound 
like the same. 
If it not the same, this scenario should be included in the draft. I can 
provide a section to describe this scenario and proper processing in Ingress 
node and Egress node. 

Under my scenario, the Egress node needs to reassemble the two half frames 
before sending to the destination because each half frame is not a complete IP 
packet. 





So,
 if the deliver header is IPv4, its fragment offset is equal to 0 and
 its MF-bit is also set to 0. If the delivery header is IPv6, it does
 not contain a fragment header. However, the payload is a single
 fragment of a larger packet.
 
 Are we talking about the same scenario?
 
 If so, it would be undesirable for the egress router to attempt
 reassembly for the following reasons:
 
 - There are conditions in which the payload destination will be able to
 reassemble the packet, but the GRE ingress router cannot. For example,
 assume that the packet was fragmented several hops before entering the
 GRE tunnel. One fragment traversed the GRE tunnel, but another fragment
 traversed another path, avoiding the tunnel. In this case, the tunnel
 egress router can't reassemble the packet, because all of the fragments
 will not pass through it. However, the destination host can reassemble
 the packet.
 
 - Even if the GRE egress router could reassemble he packet, it is
 preferable to execute the computationally expensive reassembly
 procedure at the endpoint.
 
  - There should be two options when the encapsulated data frame
 exceeds
  MTU: a) split the data frame to two smaller frames, with each frame
  being encapsulated;
 
 This is the option that the draft currently offers. (Or am I
 misunderstanding your words?)
 
  b) truncate the frame if the Egress node needs to
  receive the data frame but doesn't have the capability to reassemble
  split frames.
 
 I don't understand this option. Are you suggesting that we deliver the
 beginning of the payload packet and discard the rest? I doubt if that
 is what you mean, but that is how I currently interpret your words.
 
Ron
 
 
  Linda
 
 
 
 
   -Original Message-
   From: int-area-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:int-area-boun...@ietf.org]
 On
   Behalf Of Ronald Bonica
   Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:37 AM
   To: Internet Area
   Subject: [Int-area] FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-
   intarea-gre-mtu-00.txt
  
   Folks,
  
   If you get a chance, please provide a sanity check on this document.
   It is very short, so it won't take much time to review.
  
Ron
  
  
-Original Message-
From: internet-dra...@ietf.org [mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:34 AM
To: Ronald Bonica
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-intarea-gre-
 mtu-
00.txt
   
   
A new version of I-D, draft-bonica-intarea-gre-mtu-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Ron Bonica and posted to the
  IETF
repository.
   
Filename:draft-bonica-intarea-gre-mtu
Revision:00
Title:   Generic Routing Encapsulation (GRE)
 Fragmentation
Strategy
Creation date:   2013-05-29
Group:   Individual Submission
Number of pages: 8
URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-
 bonica-
intarea-gre-mtu-00.txt
Status:  http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bonica-
   intarea-
gre-mtu
Htmlized:http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bonica-intarea-
  gre-
mtu-00
   
   
Abstract:
   This memo documents a GRE fragmentation strategy upon which
 many
   vendors have converged.  Specifically, it defines procedures
 to
  be
   executed by GRE ingress routers.  It is published so that
 those
   building new implementations will be aware of best common
  practice.
   It is also published so that those building applications over
  GRE
   will understand how GRE works.
   
   
   
   
   
The IETF Secretariat
   
  
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Re: [Int-area] FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-intarea-gre-mtu-00.txt

2013-05-29 Thread Joe Touch

FWIW, I gave mine to Ron offline already.

Joe

On 5/29/2013 6:36 AM, Ronald Bonica wrote:

Folks,

If you get a chance, please provide a sanity check on this document. It is very 
short, so it won't take much time to review.

  Ron



-Original Message-
From: internet-dra...@ietf.org [mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:34 AM
To: Ronald Bonica
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-intarea-gre-mtu-
00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-bonica-intarea-gre-mtu-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Ron Bonica and posted to the IETF
repository.

Filename:draft-bonica-intarea-gre-mtu
Revision:00
Title:   Generic Routing Encapsulation (GRE) Fragmentation
Strategy
Creation date:   2013-05-29
Group:   Individual Submission
Number of pages: 8
URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bonica-
intarea-gre-mtu-00.txt
Status:  http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bonica-intarea-
gre-mtu
Htmlized:http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bonica-intarea-gre-
mtu-00


Abstract:
This memo documents a GRE fragmentation strategy upon which many
vendors have converged.  Specifically, it defines procedures to be
executed by GRE ingress routers.  It is published so that those
building new implementations will be aware of best common practice.
It is also published so that those building applications over GRE
will understand how GRE works.





The IETF Secretariat



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