Re: [jdev] Jabber architecture
Thanks. I'm project managing the design and development of a commercial application, that will use Jabber as a base. I'm trying to work up a an rough estimate of the development costs for the financial guys. I've read through the first half of "Programming Jabber" and suspect that other implementations of the Jabber server must be somewhat similar in architecture? For example, allowing components to connect to the backbone using library load, TCP, and STDIO connections. I think most of the application can be handled by the standard Jabber components, with most of the specialized functionality in the client. However, I will need to plug in several custom server components. I'm basically working at the block-diagram level at this point... just trying to scope out the project. As far as requirements for the server are concerned, what I'm mainly concerned about is stability and scalability, as this application must potentially support lots of simultaneous users. The actual number will depend on the market, so we need to be able to start small and grow arbitrarily large. I'm a bit worried about that requirement, to be honest. Anyway, any thoughts much appreciated. Brgds: John Hal Rottenberg wrote: On 9/11/06, Matthias Wimmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have the O'Reilly "Programming Jabber" book. It's from 2002 and I'm This book describes the architecture of jabberd14 Also note there are a dozen other jabber servers now. The landscape is much different than it used to be. Are you trying to learn in general, or do you have some specific aims? We might be able to help direct your focus. -- Marketing for Online Collectible Dealers Identry, LLC 249 Lenox Road Huntington Station, NY 11746 Phone: 631.546.5079 Fax: 631.980.4262 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.identry.com Members: ASDA, APS, ANA, PSA begin:vcard fn:John Almberg n:Almberg;John org:Identry, LLC adr:;;249 Lenox Road;Huntington Station;NY;11746;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Managing Partner tel;work:631.546.5079 tel;fax:631.980.4262 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.identry.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [jdev] Jabber architecture
Op dinsdag 12 september 2006 18:22, schreef John Almberg: snip As far as requirements for the server are concerned, what I'm mainly concerned about is stability and scalability, as this application must potentially support lots of simultaneous users. The actual number will depend on the market, so we need to be able to start small and grow arbitrarily large. I'm a bit worried about that requirement, to be honest. You might want to take a look at ejabberd: http://www.process-one.net/en/projects/ejabberd/docs/features.pdf ejabberd is written in Erlang, as this unknown language might scare your manager, I've here a list of useful Erlang-related links: * A very recent deployment at the metro of Lyon, France (quote: The customer was /very/ surprised with this new software that 'never crashed once'.: http://forum.trapexit.org/viewtopic.php?t=6229 * From the same poster, how he convinced his boss: http://forum.trapexit.org/viewtopic.php?t=6253 * Why Erlang Is a Great Language for Concurrent Programming: http://yarivsblog.com/articles/2006/08/16/why-erlang-is-a-great-language-for-concurrent-programming * Next article explains the future importancy of concurrency in software: http://www.gotw.ca/publications/concurrency-ddj.htm * A functional program is ready for concurrency without any further modifications. (Erlang is a functional language): http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/fp.html * Erlang Style Concurrency: http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/concurrency.html * Erlang Hot Code Swapping - Hacking Nirvana: http://yarivsblog.com/articles/2006/06/22/erlang-hot-code-swapping-hacking-nirvana * The must-read Phd thesis of Joe Amstrong: http://www.sics.se/~joe/thesis/armstrong_thesis_2003.pdf * Ericsson's Biggest PR Blunder: Forgetting to Tell Us That Erlang Programming Is FUN: http://yarivsblog.com/articles/2006/08/24/ericssons-biggest-pr-blunder-forgetting-to-tell-us-that-erlang-programming-is-fun This blog entry also might interest you if you would consider to deploy a large ejabberd installation with less memory: http://www.planeta.toliman.pl/?p=101 -- Mvg, Sander Devrieze. xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ejabberd, the expandable Jabber daemon. -- http://ejabberd.jabber.ru/
Re: [jdev] Jabber architecture
Interesting. How hard is it to find Erlang programmers? Particularly one who knows enough to write a couple ejabberd components? -- John Sander Devrieze wrote: Op dinsdag 12 september 2006 18:22, schreef John Almberg: snip As far as requirements for the server are concerned, what I'm mainly concerned about is stability and scalability, as this application must potentially support lots of simultaneous users. The actual number will depend on the market, so we need to be able to start small and grow arbitrarily large. I'm a bit worried about that requirement, to be honest. You might want to take a look at ejabberd: http://www.process-one.net/en/projects/ejabberd/docs/features.pdf ejabberd is written in Erlang, as this unknown language might scare your manager, I've here a list of useful Erlang-related links: * A very recent deployment at the metro of Lyon, France (quote: "The customer was /very/ surprised with this new software that 'never crashed once'.": http://forum.trapexit.org/viewtopic.php?t=6229 * From the same poster, how he convinced his boss: http://forum.trapexit.org/viewtopic.php?t=6253 * Why Erlang Is a Great Language for Concurrent Programming: http://yarivsblog.com/articles/2006/08/16/why-erlang-is-a-great-language-for-concurrent-programming * Next article explains the future importancy of concurrency in software: http://www.gotw.ca/publications/concurrency-ddj.htm * "A functional program is ready for concurrency without any further modifications." (Erlang is a functional language): http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/fp.html * Erlang Style Concurrency: http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/concurrency.html * Erlang Hot Code Swapping - Hacking Nirvana: http://yarivsblog.com/articles/2006/06/22/erlang-hot-code-swapping-hacking-nirvana * The must-read Phd thesis of Joe Amstrong: http://www.sics.se/~joe/thesis/armstrong_thesis_2003.pdf * Ericsson's Biggest PR Blunder: Forgetting to Tell Us That Erlang Programming Is FUN: http://yarivsblog.com/articles/2006/08/24/ericssons-biggest-pr-blunder-forgetting-to-tell-us-that-erlang-programming-is-fun This blog entry also might interest you if you would consider to deploy a large ejabberd installation with less memory: http://www.planeta.toliman.pl/?p=101 -- Marketing for Online Collectible Dealers Identry, LLC 249 Lenox Road Huntington Station, NY 11746 Phone: 631.546.5079 Fax: 631.980.4262 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.identry.com Members: ASDA, APS, ANA, PSA begin:vcard fn:John Almberg n:Almberg;John org:Identry, LLC adr:;;249 Lenox Road;Huntington Station;NY;11746;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Managing Partner tel;work:631.546.5079 tel;fax:631.980.4262 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.identry.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [jdev] Jabber architecture
Op dinsdag 12 september 2006 21:45, schreef John Almberg: Interesting. How hard is it to find Erlang programmers? Particularly one who knows enough to write a couple ejabberd components? You can search on next URLs: http://ejabberd.jabber.ru/contributions (there might already be listed what you need) http://www.process-one.net/en/projects/ejabberd/index.html http://www.erlang-consulting.com/ http://www.erlang.se/ http://www.erlang-services.com/eng/index.htm http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Erlang/ Or you just can send an email to the ejabberd and/or Erlang mailing lists. -- Mvg, Sander Devrieze. xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ejabberd, the expandable Jabber daemon. -- http://ejabberd.jabber.ru/
RE: [jdev] Jabber architecture
John, Unfortunately, the book is probably quite out of date.Another very popular option to check out is Wildfire (http://www.jivesoftware.org/wildfire). It's 100% Java and has a full plugin architecture. You can also write custom functionality using external components, but most people find plugins to be a far easier method for doing customizations. Since it's written in Java, it's very easy to find developers that can understand and extend the code. There's also a network of companies that provide customization services for Wildfire (including Jive Software of course) :) Regards, Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John AlmbergSent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:22 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jabber software development listSubject: Re: [jdev] Jabber architecture Thanks. I'm project managing the design and development of a commercial application, that will use Jabber as a base. I'm trying to work up a an rough estimate of the development costs for the financial guys.I've read through the first half of "Programming Jabber" and suspect that other implementations of the Jabber server must be somewhat similar in architecture? For example, allowing components to connect to the backbone using library load, TCP, and STDIO connections. I think most of the application can be handled by the standard Jabber components, with most of the specialized functionality in the client. However, I will need to plug in several custom server components.I'm basically working at the block-diagram level at this point... just trying to scope out the project.As far as requirements for the server are concerned, what I'm mainly concerned about is stability and scalability, as this application must potentially support lots of simultaneous users. The actual number will depend on the market, so we need to be able to start small and grow arbitrarily large. I'm a bit worried about that requirement, to be honest.Anyway, any thoughts much appreciated.Brgds: JohnHal Rottenberg wrote: On 9/11/06, Matthias Wimmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have the O'Reilly "Programming Jabber" book. It's from 2002 and I'm This book describes the architecture of jabberd14 Also note there are a dozen other jabber servers now. The landscape is much different than it used to be. Are you trying to learn in general, or do you have some specific aims? We might be able to help direct your focus. -- Marketing for Online Collectible DealersIdentry, LLC249 Lenox RoadHuntington Station, NY 11746Phone: 631.546.5079Fax: 631.980.4262Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Web: www.identry.comMembers: ASDA, APS, ANA, PSA
Re: [jdev] Jabber architecture
Cool. I'll definitely check it out. Thanks: John Sander Devrieze wrote: Op dinsdag 12 september 2006 21:45, schreef John Almberg: Interesting. How hard is it to find Erlang programmers? Particularly one who knows enough to write a couple ejabberd components? You can search on next URLs: http://ejabberd.jabber.ru/contributions (there might already be listed what you need) http://www.process-one.net/en/projects/ejabberd/index.html http://www.erlang-consulting.com/ http://www.erlang.se/ http://www.erlang-services.com/eng/index.htm http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Erlang/ Or you just can send an email to the ejabberd and/or Erlang mailing lists. begin:vcard fn:John Almberg n:Almberg;John org:Identry, LLC adr:;;249 Lenox Road;Huntington Station;NY;11746;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Managing Partner tel;work:631.546.5079 tel;fax:631.980.4262 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.identry.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [jdev] Jabber architecture
John Almberg schrieb: I have the O'Reilly Programming Jabber book. It's from 2002 and I'm wondering how much, if any, the Jabber server architecture has changed from what is described in that book? That is, is the general approach still the same, with the backbone and various components attached to the backbone? This book describes the architecture of jabberd14 (in version 1.4.1 or 1.4.2 I think). The general design is still valid for newer version of jabberd14. Notes: - jabberd2 is a completely different Jabber server. - jabberd14 is also known as jabberd version 1.4.x - jabberd2 is also known as jabberd version 2.x Tot kijk Matthias -- Matthias Wimmer Fon +49-700 77 00 77 70 Züricher Str. 243Fax +49-89 95 89 91 56 81476 Münchenhttp://ma.tthias.eu/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [jdev] Jabber architecture
On 9/11/06, Matthias Wimmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have the O'Reilly Programming Jabber book. It's from 2002 and I'm This book describes the architecture of jabberd14 Also note there are a dozen other jabber servers now. The landscape is much different than it used to be. Are you trying to learn in general, or do you have some specific aims? We might be able to help direct your focus. -- Psi webmaster (http://psi-im.org) im:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://halr9000.com
