2.0 - breaking out into multiple tracks

[Andrew Bayer]

We have differing visions of what "Jenkins 2.0" would actually mean, and
those visions are to a certain extent mutually incompatible - getting 2.0
out in the timeframe Kohsuke has proposed wouldn't be possible if that
requires not just the user experience work he has mentioned but also
storage changes, a jenkins configuration API, etc... So I have my own
proposal: break the work into a few tracks, each overseen by a shepherd, on
different schedules. So the initial 2.0 release would be the work Kobsuke
has put forward, but at the same time, another set of devs will be working
on the initial storage changes, targeting 2.15 or something like that.

Since the Big Bang model with significant comparability breaking changes is
not a viable option, these tracks will still need to be concerned with
backwards compatibility for existing jobs, plugins and build history, as
well as working with the tracks scheduled to be released earlier, but this
will allow us to make bigger, longer-term plans than we have previously.
Kohsuke's 2.0 proposal gives us the blueprint for this - define a scope,
define a goal timeline, implement the changes, verify compatibility and
stability, and then release. We can follow this model for significant work
going forward, not just now. Having a designated person serving as a
shepherd will give us someone who is focused on defining the scope and
making sure the work gets done. Let's aim at having three tracks going at a
time as a max - we need to focus the development efforts to be sure we
complete them!

My initial proposal would look something like this:

- 2.0 track - As Kohsuke has laid out. Shepherded by Kohsuke. Release
planned for February 2016 (I like to cushion schedules a bit to make sure
they're not just aspirational but actually realistic - given the breadth of
front end changes discussed, this may be an overly aggressive date).

- Pluggable storage/database backend - Scope to be determined, myself as
shepherd, target release date of April 2016.

- ? For the third track, let's try to reach a consensus on what the next
priority should be. It could be stability, it could be plugin cleanup (too
many plugins!), it could be configurability and platform (I.e., config API,
Java 8, etc).

Thoughts?

A.

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Re: How to restore the setting encrypted by credential plugin?

[Ryanivanka]

Hi Stephen, 

I tried to backup all the jenkins home, and re-deploy to a new machine, all 
the credentials seems to fail, is the key have something related to 
machine environment? 
Thanks,
Ryanivanka

On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 5:32:17 PM UTC+8, Stephen Connolly wrote:
>
> On 8 September 2015 at 02:37, Ryanivanka  > wrote:
>
>> Hi Experts,
>>
>> I met a problem that I use thinbackup plugin to backup the jenkins home 
>> everyday, but if the jenkins server fail and recover, I copy over all the 
>> jenkins home, including jobs, many plugin xml configuration and secret 
>> files. The Credentails seems not working, like user name and password saved 
>> for github, and tokens for github. If I re-input the credentials, I can use 
>> the new created ones. But all the old ones which recovered from the backup 
>> file are not working, in some error state. 
>>
>> I search around, http://xn--thibaud-dya.fr/jenkins_credentials.html
>>
>> *If I understand it right, all the credential is encrypted with random 
>> key. *So if we create a new jenkins server, we cannot reuse the 
>> credentials by just copy and paste the secret files. *Am I right?*
>>
>> *If that's the problem, is there any way I can restore the credentials? 
>> *because 
>> I use marathon to re-create jenkins automatically when it fails, if I still 
>> need to be notified about this and need to reset all the credential 
>> manually, that sounds like a waste of time. 
>>
>
> when you recreate Jenkins you will need to provide the same seed files. I 
> cannot recall exactly what files are the seed files, but 
> $JENKINS_HOME/secrets would be where they are stored, you would be safe 
> just recreating all files from that directory (but obviously keep the 
> contents of that directory safe or your credentials can be recovered)
>  
>
>>
>> Thank you for your help.
>> Ryanivanka
>>
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>>
>
>

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Re: 2.0 - breaking out into multiple tracks

[Andrew Bayer]

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Vojtech Juranek 
wrote:

> in general I agree with your (I'd like to see changes in backend happen as
> well), but I'm not sure about this one - you don't expect any API changes
> or
> you propose to do backward incompatible changes in a minor version change?
> If
> the former, IMHO it doesn't need to be bind to 2.0, just form group of
> interested devs and make the change, if later it seems to me quite
> unfortunate
> to do any incompatibility changes during minor version bump. IMHO lots of
> people expect, if not state clearly otherwise, that any backward
> incompatible
> changes happen only during major version bump.
>

Yeah, the former - unless we as a community decide to change our philosophy
on backwards incompatible changes, 2.0 or otherwise, we're pretty much
stuck maintaining existing APIs forever.

And no, it's not bound to 2.0 - I just think the confusion over what 2.0
would mean and the desire to get bigger changes in shows we need to work on
longer-term changes deliberately, as a group. 2.0 (in Kohsuke's vision) is
one set of thematically connected longer-term changes, pluggable storage
backend is another, etc.


> With 2.0 bump discussion, IMHO it would be useful if we define what major
> version bump exactly means for Jenkins (i.e. still very limited backward
> incompatible changes; only some API changes - only plugin maintainers
> should
> take care; backward incompatible changes can happen -  every admin should
> take
> care and look if some config migration is needed; etc) and also how often
> we
> expect major version changes. If cca once a year (or e.g. once some major
> feature is developed and tested), IMHO it's fine to wait with it for 3.0,
> if
> we stick with 2.0 for another 10 years, than makes sense for me to postpone
> 2.0 and implement more changes.
>

Last night/morning (time zones!) at the office hours, I tossed out the idea
of changing our numbering - to 2.0.x, 2.1.x, etc, to give us the
opportunity to make more drastic/compatibility-related changes before a
distant 3.0. Kohsuke was not enthused. =) He'd like to stay on the same
model as 1.x for versioning.

A.

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Re: 2.0 - breaking out into multiple tracks

[Vojtech Juranek]

Hi,

> another set of devs will be working
> on the initial storage changes, targeting 2.15 or something like that

in general I agree with your (I'd like to see changes in backend happen as 
well), but I'm not sure about this one - you don't expect any API changes or 
you propose to do backward incompatible changes in a minor version change? If 
the former, IMHO it doesn't need to be bind to 2.0, just form group of 
interested devs and make the change, if later it seems to me quite unfortunate 
to do any incompatibility changes during minor version bump. IMHO lots of 
people expect, if not state clearly otherwise, that any backward incompatible 
changes happen only during major version bump.

With 2.0 bump discussion, IMHO it would be useful if we define what major 
version bump exactly means for Jenkins (i.e. still very limited backward 
incompatible changes; only some API changes - only plugin maintainers should 
take care; backward incompatible changes can happen -  every admin should take 
care and look if some config migration is needed; etc) and also how often we 
expect major version changes. If cca once a year (or e.g. once some major 
feature is developed and tested), IMHO it's fine to wait with it for 3.0, if 
we stick with 2.0 for another 10 years, than makes sense for me to postpone 
2.0 and implement more changes.

Cheers
Vojta

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Re: Jenkins 2.0 proposal

[domi]

Hey Baptiste, this is a really great idea!!!
since a while I’m not in the position to deal with the setup of my instance 
myself, but I remember when I had to give advices to all different departments 
in my old organisation - automated setup of a new CI/CD environment is a really 
important thing and specially in big organisations where things are to be setup 
in a more controlled manner.
Also I could imagine that this wold also be very helpful in the scope of 
testing jenkins itself, e.g. integration tests or even unit tests.
/Domi


> On 07 Oct 2015, at 22:05, Baptiste Mathus  wrote:
> 
> Another idea I'll dump here. it's still a bit fluffy, but anyway.
> 
> I think that with the config-management/devops trend, it would be a good 
> thing that Jenkins can really be configured from scratch through (most simple 
> possible) CLI/API calls. It's currently possible but requires a quite 
> high-level knowledge of Jenkins internals to achieve (groovy scripts, and so 
> on).
> 
> For the jobs part, IMO things like the Job DSL Plugin to handle job 
> versioning and durable management are great. And that would be great to have 
> an equivalent for the instance. 
> Something like a high-level language (say DSL) to describe the server 
> configuration.config itself.
> 
> Maybe this is not something necessarily breaking things, hence not 
> necessarily related to 2.0, but perhaps some contract/interface could be 
> introduced in plugins to kind of standardize that discovery and be able to 
> offer a standard API to configure Jenkins?
> 
> The area to handle off the top of my head:
> * Core configuration (slaves, tools...)
> * Plugins to install (see also 
> https://github.com/jenkinsci/docker/blob/master/README.md#installing-more-tools
>  
> 
>  for reference/example)
> * Plugins config
> * Jobs
> 
> My 2 cents
> 
> 2015-10-07 19:39 GMT+02:00 Kohsuke Kawaguchi  >:
> Right, I remember looking at DotCi and thinking that the way it moved the 
> storage to mongodb points toward an abstraction we can build.
> 
> Similar hook already exists for artifacts, and then we can provide auxiliary 
> BLOB store for plugins that write random bits of data under builds, jobs, etc.
> 
> Over time we can move things one by one to the BLOB store like that, then at 
> that point we have filesystem free Jenkins.
> 
> 
> 2015-10-06 11:18 GMT-07:00 Surya Gaddipati  >:
> Regarding backend solution. We use DotCi and store all builds/logs in 
> mongodb.( Still experimenting how to properly store logs in the db, but we 
> have it working on staging). 
> 
> The only things on disks are plugins and folder config.xml ( because of this 
> issue https://github.com/jenkinsci/jenkins/pull/1762 
> , jenkins deletes anything 
> not on disk from memory ). I need to spend time to fix the issue in jenkins 
> properly. 
> 
> 
> Once that is done. We can have things like, deploying on heroku , true load 
> balancing with multiple masters. 
> 
> One more thing that is preventing from from jenkins from being used in any 
> serious installations is heavily thread locked Queue implementation. We are 
> having to do strange workarounds with our jenkins because it threadlocks 
> under even medium loads ( I saw this mentioned in google's slides for JUC 
> too, curious what their solution was ) . 
> 
> An extension point for queue would be great so we can store queue in redis or 
> something.
> 
> 
> Surya
> 
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>  
> .
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
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> 
> 
> -- 
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> 
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>  
> 

How to use latest jenkins version to debug plugin?

[Ryanivanka]

Hi Experts,

I'm debugging credential plugin, which use 1.56 as default jenkins version. 
I can hpi:run my plugin and access my jenkin web page on 
http://localhost:8080/jenkins

But the version is too old, I want to install other plugin to check some 
behavior. *How can I change the default jenkin version?*

I have tried to update the pom.xml to use 1.632 version.


org.jenkins-ci.plugins
plugin
1.632


and update the intellij project file credentials.iml, to use all 1.632 
jenkins jar. 

After I clean and install, and run the debug jenkins instance, the page 
become unreadable, like losing some style. Obviously, my update is not 
right. 

*Is there any way to update the jenkins version for debugging plugin?*

Thanks a lot,
Ryanivanka




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Re: [2.0] Website rebump

[Daniel Beck]

On 08.10.2015, at 06:39, Gus Reiber  wrote:

> I understand the urge to keep the scope manageable, but I am not sure I see 
> in Daniel's list where the improvement is likely to come. It is a little 
> concern of mine that we are emphasizing ease of authorship for a reasonably 
> small subset of Jenkins users (those who write code) over the general 
> usability of the site. ...but if we don't get content authored, it won't be 
> much of site, so... pick your poison, I guess. 

Think about the kind of software Jenkins is. The least technical person to use 
Jenkins is probably an engineering manager, and I doubt they're going to 
contribute to the site. The vast majority of serious users are admins, 
developers, testers, or similar roles. All of them write code, at least 
scripts. All of them can handle text editors and don't think of Word when they 
hear that term.

> • I would have ordered your list of content areas by importance and placed 
> plugins at or near the top. I think we are doing a bit of a hand wave there. 
> It can and should be A LOT better than it is today, with browsing, searching, 
> ratings and reviews. If we did that alone, we will have greatly advanced this 
> site. Not doing so, I think, would be a big opportunity missed.

Absolutely agree. Plugins are important and we need something better than a 
flat list. Not sure about ratings/reviews (may be too high a bar for the 
initial release), but as I wrote, the plugins microsite can always be extended 
to cover more. One of the things that would make sense would be including 
popularity, both absolutely install count and recent growth.

Regarding ordering, it's essentially the one I'd use on the menu, in (mostly) 
increasing levels of involvement, rather than the weight placed on each section.

> • Search seems to be missing from both the doc and the blog. I wouldn't say 
> the blog is good today. You can't browse it and you cannot search it. 
> Basically, if an article is more than a week old, good luck finding it. It 
> might be that we just want to punt and port the blog to flat files and call 
> that good. ...but if we want to make it better, the blog should be browsable 
> by author, category and rating, as well as searchable. Any number of 
> free-ware blog sites and tools offer these basics out of the box. 
> • Doc needs to be searchable. Ideally it would also be integrated with 
> technical blog posts and javadoc, If our website cannot offer search features 
> at least equal to a free WordPress site, we should ask what we are doing and 
> why we are doing it.

I don't think I've ever used site search and been happy with the result. 
There's always something that isn't indexed, or it's stupidly broken in some 
way. If you want to look for something, you go to Google and search for 
"something jenkins". This has the added advantage of not caring whether 
something is on the site, the wiki (which will continue to exist for quite a 
while even if we decide to get rid of it), the mailing lists, or even Stack 
Overflow. Or does your free WordPress site index those?

That said, there appear to be solutions for site search when using Jekyll, so 
we may still be able to do something here. Or just do the custom Google search 
thing. It looks like it's 100 USD per year if we want it to look nice as well. 
A few years ago I used Google/Bing via API, I assume this still exists? That 
would make it integrate seamlessly into the site.

> • Events need to be handled somehow in the new site. They are handled poorly 
> in the current site. I am a little concerned they will be handled even worse 
> in the new site. Again, I think a reasonable, and now surprisingly high bar 
> should be event handling of equal quality to that which you might expect to 
> get with a free WordPress site with an event widget added.

So what specifically is missing? They are featured on the home/front page, and 
get their own page(s) to display them however makes sense.

> If you look at any number of the 'instant website' hosting services (almost 
> all of which have a free version), they have effectively set the bar so far 
> above where Jenkins-ci.org is today, that I feel like we have the wrong 
> benchmark. If we are going to take on the effort of making a custom site, 
> rather than just grabbing a commodity site, I think what we build ourselves 
> needs to be in some way better or at least equal to the commodity version.
> 
> ...if we can't do better than a stock WordPress site, why wouldn't we just 
> use a stock WordPress site? The bar has really come up a long way in the last 
> 5 to 10 years. The good news is that a lot of these "fancy" features are now 
> old-hat.

I wrote what sites I looked at to build the proposal. They seem to be doing 
their job quite well.

One of the requirements repeatedly mentioned in the discussion is that this is 
the Jenkins site, and needs to offer documentation and downloads, so that's 
what I described. 

Re: Jenkins 2.0 proposal

[domi]

I feel the same way as Andrew, I remember when we where talking about things we 
would have loved to do but where afraid to do because of backward compatibility 
- the answer coming up that time always was: we can do this with v2.0, but not 
now yet. Although I really think the direction we are going now is the right 
one, I sometimes would wish for more courage - I’m sure the v2.0 label will be 
accepted by our users to take some extra effort when upgrading.
/Domi


> On 07 Oct 2015, at 21:57, Andrew Bayer  wrote:
> 
> So looking back over the thread - my concerns have pretty much all been about 
> missed opportunities to address stability and performance issues that may 
> require more work in core than we normally do in a release (not necessarily 
> compatibility-breaking ones). In the 7 or so years I've been involved with 
> the project, there've been many times when we've said "Well, maybe we'll do 
> that in Jenkins 2.0" so seeing 2.0 coming without the opportunity to make 
> those sorts of changes takes a bit to get used to. =)
> 
> But! The branding/messaging stuff has value - well, most of it - I'll fight 
> to the death against jenkins.cd . =) I know I've been a 
> really big fan of curated plugin packs or something along those lines to help 
> users get up and running, and the UI framework definitely needs a complete 
> refresh. Yeah, my dreams of Jenkins 2.0 going out the door with a drastically 
> revamped storage backend and better support for analytics aren't going to 
> happen - but that doesn't mean they *won't* happen in 2.20, 2.30, etc. The 
> plugin compatibility testing is going to be something hugely useful for 
> making significant changes to the core in the future - if we can get a good 
> regression testing framework that covers a broad array of plugin use cases, 
> we can be more liberal in changing core in the future. 
> 
> 2.0 isn't going to be what I've always thought 2.0 would be. It's not going 
> to fit the semantic versioning definition of a major version change. But 2.0 
> is still a good way to label the kind of UX/on boarding changes that are so 
> central to what Kohsuke's proposing. Let's take this as an opportunity to 
> figure out how to do planning for significant changes and new features in 
> core that take time to deliver - this time, it's user experience, look and 
> feel, and out of the box that are the main focus, but perhaps when 2.0 is out 
> the door, we will focus another couple months of work on storage and memory 
> utilization, or plugin cleanup, or...
> 
> A.
> 
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Re: Jenkins 2.0 proposal

[Andrew Bayer]

Tyler did write a jenkins puppet module that can do some of this stuff -
https://github.com/jenkinsci/puppet-jenkins. But something on the jenkins
side to better support this sort of scenario would definitely be valuable.

A.

On Thursday, October 8, 2015, domi  wrote:

> Hey Baptiste, this is a really great idea!!!
> since a while I’m not in the position to deal with the setup of my
> instance myself, but I remember when I had to give advices to all different
> departments in my old organisation - automated setup of a new CI/CD
> environment is a really important thing and specially in big organisations
> where things are to be setup in a more controlled manner.
> Also I could imagine that this wold also be very helpful in the scope of
> testing jenkins itself, e.g. integration tests or even unit tests.
> /Domi
>
>
> On 07 Oct 2015, at 22:05, Baptiste Mathus  > wrote:
>
> Another idea I'll dump here. it's still a bit fluffy, but anyway.
>
> I think that with the config-management/devops trend, it would be a good
> thing that Jenkins can really be configured from scratch through (most
> simple possible) CLI/API calls. It's currently possible but requires a
> quite high-level knowledge of Jenkins internals to achieve (groovy scripts,
> and so on).
>
> For the jobs part, IMO things like the Job DSL Plugin to handle job
> versioning and durable management are great. And that would be great to
> have an equivalent for the instance.
> Something like a high-level language (say DSL) to describe the server
> configuration.config itself.
>
> Maybe this is not something necessarily breaking things, hence not
> necessarily related to 2.0, but perhaps some contract/interface could be
> introduced in plugins to kind of standardize that discovery and be able to
> offer a standard API to configure Jenkins?
>
> The area to handle off the top of my head:
> * Core configuration (slaves, tools...)
> * Plugins to install (see also
> https://github.com/jenkinsci/docker/blob/master/README.md#installing-more-tools
> for reference/example)
> * Plugins config
> * Jobs
>
> My 2 cents
>
> 2015-10-07 19:39 GMT+02:00 Kohsuke Kawaguchi  >:
>
>> Right, I remember looking at DotCi and thinking that the way it moved the
>> storage to mongodb points toward an abstraction we can build.
>>
>> Similar hook already exists for artifacts, and then we can provide
>> auxiliary BLOB store for plugins that write random bits of data under
>> builds, jobs, etc.
>>
>> Over time we can move things one by one to the BLOB store like that, then
>> at that point we have filesystem free Jenkins.
>>
>>
>> 2015-10-06 11:18 GMT-07:00 Surya Gaddipati > >:
>>
>>> Regarding backend solution. We use DotCi and store all builds/logs in
>>> mongodb.( Still experimenting how to properly store logs in the db, but we
>>> have it working on staging).
>>>
>>> The only things on disks are plugins and folder config.xml ( because of
>>> this issue https://github.com/jenkinsci/jenkins/pull/1762, jenkins
>>> deletes anything not on disk from memory ). I need to spend time to fix the
>>> issue in jenkins properly.
>>>
>>>
>>> Once that is done. We can have things like, deploying on heroku , true
>>> load balancing with multiple masters.
>>>
>>> One more thing that is preventing from from jenkins from being used in
>>> any serious installations is heavily thread locked Queue implementation. We
>>> are having to do strange workarounds with our jenkins because it
>>> threadlocks under even medium loads ( I saw this mentioned in google's
>>> slides for JUC too, curious what their solution was ) .
>>>
>>> An extension point for queue would be great so we can store queue in
>>> redis or something.
>>>
>>>
>>> Surya
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/9d9e1968-b7c7-4296-899c-f2b05f10ac6a%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kohsuke Kawaguchi
>>
>> --
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Re: 2.0 - breaking out into multiple tracks

[Oleg Nenashev]

+1 for breaking activities into threads, +1 to let Andrew lead the database 
backend activity; +100500 for moving all compat changes to the third track. 
Had the same proposal in the Jenkins 2.0 thread, but it has been lost in 
other comments. Compat track is a painful stuff, but I think that Jenkins 
needs it to avoid the architectural paralysis.

If the changes are so watered down - (no breaking changes, no database, no 
> jdk upgrade​) I don't really see the point of incrementing the big number. 
> Isn't it that just 'business as usual' ?
>

No reason from the technical side. BTW it should be a message to the 
community.

 Also - why can't 1.xxx continue in parallel to 2.x ? 


If we introduce breaking changes, we will have to do it. If the scope of 
changes is limited, it is not a big deal. For a real "Jenkins 2.0" we need 
to have an internal fork for at least 6 month in order to let Jenkins 
stabilize a bit. I always vote for long-term release lines (1 year or 
above), which would allow large-scale installations to avoid making 
de-facto custom forks. This upgrade is an opportunity to change the 
approaches.

Best regards,
Oleg

четверг, 8 октября 2015 г., 13:45:43 UTC+3 пользователь nigelm написал:
>
>
> We have differing visions of what "Jenkins 2.0" would actually mean, and 
>> those visions are to a certain extent mutually incompatible - getting 2.0 
>> out in the timeframe Kohsuke has proposed wouldn't be possible if that 
>> requires not just the user experience work he has mentioned but also 
>> storage changes, a jenkins configuration API, etc... 
>
>
>
> ​I don't understand the rush to label something as 2.0 ? Why not extend 
> the timeframe?
>
> If the changes are so watered down - (no breaking changes, no database, no 
> jdk upgrade​) I don't really see the point of incrementing the big number. 
> Isn't it that just 'business as usual' ?
>
> ​I think a 2.0 should include all of the things you're identifying​. If 
> lots of things are constantly put off for 'we'll do that, but in v.Next as 
> it's a breaking change' surely it makes sense to actually do them, take the 
> hit in one go?
>
> Also - why can't 1.xxx continue in parallel to 2.x ? That gives it a 
> longer time to cook, provide upgrade paths from 1.x. e.g: plugins could 
> declare themselves 'ready for 1->2 upgrade', and the installation could 
> inform the user 'you're good to go'. This is a fairly well-used pattern on 
> other projects
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

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Re: 2.0 - breaking out into multiple tracks

[Stephen Connolly]

On 8 October 2015 at 11:45, Nigel Magnay  wrote:
>
>> We have differing visions of what "Jenkins 2.0" would actually mean, and
>> those visions are to a certain extent mutually incompatible - getting 2.0
>> out in the timeframe Kohsuke has proposed wouldn't be possible if that
>> requires not just the user experience work he has mentioned but also storage
>> changes, a jenkins configuration API, etc...
>
>
>
> I don't understand the rush to label something as 2.0 ? Why not extend the
> timeframe?

Ok, I'll bite.

There are a number of conflicting things we need to balance.

* There are some bigger UI/UX refreshes that we want to get out to
users. A long standing complaint is that the Jenkins UI/UX is dated.
Moving to a 2.0 label corresponding to the visible UI changes helps
advertise the fact that the Jenkins UI/UX is being updated
* It is hard enough getting users to upgrade to LTS lines, when they
see a 2.0, there will be a bigger fear of upgrade breakages... in a
sense that is why we have not done a 2.0 yet... I believe that to be a
mistake. I think a better thing to do is to bump the major version
more regularly... so I would see 2.0 being the 2016 release, 3.0 being
the 2017 release, etc (though KK may feel differently). If users build
up the expectation that "yes it's a major bump, but normally they
don't break too much in a major bump... it's more like jumping 4 or 5
LTSes" then we can keep the users with us.
* We all have our pet crappy APIs that we want to kill off... the
allure of a major version bump is a siren luring us towards breaking
more stuff

So I see Jenkins 2.0 more as a new version numbering scheme...

We could call it Jenkins 2016 rather than 2.0... but that would set an
expectation that in 2017 we would roll out a 2017... given how hard we
find sticking to the LTS schedule I'd rather go with a major version
bump every 12-18 months.

Then we can set out a deprecation policy, say that we remove APIs that
have been deprecated for 2 or more major version numbers... perhaps we
can use some static analysis or other tooling to alert you if your
plugins are using deprecated APIs.

In my vision, thus, Jenkins 2.0 is about sending a message that the
project is changing how it views compatability with the past... it's
still important so we are not removing dead APIs yet, but we have to
start putting lines in the sand so that we can remove dead APIs in the
future.

>
> If the changes are so watered down - (no breaking changes, no database, no
> jdk upgrade) I don't really see the point of incrementing the big number.
> Isn't it that just 'business as usual' ?

It's about setting expectations for subsequent versions.

>
> I think a 2.0 should include all of the things you're identifying. If lots
> of things are constantly put off for 'we'll do that, but in v.Next as it's a
> breaking change' surely it makes sense to actually do them, take the hit in
> one go?
>
> Also - why can't 1.xxx continue in parallel to 2.x ? That gives it a longer
> time to cook, provide upgrade paths from 1.x. e.g: plugins could declare
> themselves 'ready for 1->2 upgrade', and the installation could inform the
> user 'you're good to go'. This is a fairly well-used pattern on other
> projects

Python 3 anyone?

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: 2.0 - breaking out into multiple tracks

[Jesse Glick]

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:00 AM, Andrew Bayer  wrote:
> Pluggable storage/database backend - Scope to be determined, myself as
> shepherd, target release date of April 2016.

This seems a very optimistic schedule based on my experience of what
ought to have been far simpler modifications.

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Re: [2.0] Website rebump

[Nigel Magnay]

+1

I'd imagined something like www.git-scm.com. They've had over 100
individual contributors.

I'd completely bin comments. I don't see why the site needs to *host* a
blog - why can't it just be links to Jenkins articles elsewhere.

Bigger requirements just end up sucking you towards the cpu-suck,
security-nightmare and 'who has review/approve and commit bits' CRM
nightmares like Wordpress.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:45 AM, Daniel Beck  wrote:

> So from aggregating existing comments it looks to me like the following
> seems to be at least a reasonable basis for further discussion:
>
> * Use a static site generator with a Git repo on GitHub as the source for
> the site. Goal: Allow community to contribute content.
>   [Updated Confluence could also work, but would retain the problems of
> unreviewed content, comments, and non-plain text editing.]
> * Have actual content, like good documentation, especially for getting
> started. This includes moving some of the wiki's content into the site.
> * Feature the blog [and possibly the event calendar] more prominently.
> * Do not have "comments everywhere", limit to specific sections like the
> blog.
> * Make it easy to contribute, possibly through having an "Edit" ("Improve
> this page"?) link on every page, if possible.
>
> Comments?
>
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Re: [2.0] Website rebump

[Robert Sandell]

Do we have any site statistics on the current site of what pages are most
frequently viewed? That could feed into a perhaps better discussion on what
type of information to focus on.

One thing that makes me a bit uneasy in the discussion so far is the fact
that both Daniel and Gus seems to glance over the "Documentation" part as
just being a category and not that there are many important things behind
that category.

To me one of the "selling points" of choosing Jenkins way back in the day
was the meaning behind "Highly Extensible". It doesn't only mean that there
are 1095 different plugins I can install, but that there is a possibility
that I can make Jenkins do whatever *I* want.
Something that today is very front and center on the home page. By clicking
the link "Extend Jenkins" I can learn how to do that (we can perhaps argue
about the quality of the docs behind that link) but the fact that it's
front and center on the page is an important notion to me and a very
important feature of Jenkins itself and possible the biggest reason for us
having such a wonderful and vibrant dev community could be attributed to
the fact that users can "upgrade" themselves with just a click on the home
page instead of diving into the depths of the documentation pages. And I
think that's nothing to be glanced over and just put into the
"Documentation" category.

Yes in the theme of 2.0 it is important to focus on new visitors/users, but
I would argue that it's equally important to cater to the users that are
coming back to the site after the initial experience, and make them want to
come back for more in depth knowledge.

/B

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Daniel Beck  wrote:

> On 08.10.2015, at 06:39, Gus Reiber  wrote:
>
> > I understand the urge to keep the scope manageable, but I am not sure I
> see in Daniel's list where the improvement is likely to come. It is a
> little concern of mine that we are emphasizing ease of authorship for a
> reasonably small subset of Jenkins users (those who write code) over the
> general usability of the site. ...but if we don't get content authored, it
> won't be much of site, so... pick your poison, I guess.
>
> Think about the kind of software Jenkins is. The least technical person to
> use Jenkins is probably an engineering manager, and I doubt they're going
> to contribute to the site. The vast majority of serious users are admins,
> developers, testers, or similar roles. All of them write code, at least
> scripts. All of them can handle text editors and don't think of Word when
> they hear that term.
>
> > • I would have ordered your list of content areas by importance and
> placed plugins at or near the top. I think we are doing a bit of a hand
> wave there. It can and should be A LOT better than it is today, with
> browsing, searching, ratings and reviews. If we did that alone, we will
> have greatly advanced this site. Not doing so, I think, would be a big
> opportunity missed.
>
> Absolutely agree. Plugins are important and we need something better than
> a flat list. Not sure about ratings/reviews (may be too high a bar for the
> initial release), but as I wrote, the plugins microsite can always be
> extended to cover more. One of the things that would make sense would be
> including popularity, both absolutely install count and recent growth.
>
> Regarding ordering, it's essentially the one I'd use on the menu, in
> (mostly) increasing levels of involvement, rather than the weight placed on
> each section.
>
> > • Search seems to be missing from both the doc and the blog. I wouldn't
> say the blog is good today. You can't browse it and you cannot search it.
> Basically, if an article is more than a week old, good luck finding it. It
> might be that we just want to punt and port the blog to flat files and call
> that good. ...but if we want to make it better, the blog should be
> browsable by author, category and rating, as well as searchable. Any number
> of free-ware blog sites and tools offer these basics out of the box.
> > • Doc needs to be searchable. Ideally it would also be integrated with
> technical blog posts and javadoc, If our website cannot offer search
> features at least equal to a free WordPress site, we should ask what we are
> doing and why we are doing it.
>
> I don't think I've ever used site search and been happy with the result.
> There's always something that isn't indexed, or it's stupidly broken in
> some way. If you want to look for something, you go to Google and search
> for "something jenkins". This has the added advantage of not caring whether
> something is on the site, the wiki (which will continue to exist for quite
> a while even if we decide to get rid of it), the mailing lists, or even
> Stack Overflow. Or does your free WordPress site index those?
>
> That said, there appear to be solutions for site search when using Jekyll,
> so we may still be able to do something here. Or just do the custom 

Re: 2.0 - breaking out into multiple tracks

[Andrew Bayer]

Fair enough.
On Oct 8, 2015 14:04, "Jesse Glick"  wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:00 AM, Andrew Bayer 
> wrote:
> > Pluggable storage/database backend - Scope to be determined, myself as
> > shepherd, target release date of April 2016.
>
> This seems a very optimistic schedule based on my experience of what
> ought to have been far simpler modifications.
>
> --
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Re: jenkins.ci library releases.

[James Nord]

Actually this is trivial to do with no restructuring.

Just need to change the  in the pom.xml from 
g...@github.com to https://github.com in the libraries.

Whilst I thought about doing that I didn't want to incur the wrath of the 
community when they could no longer easily release from their machine (if 
they chose to)...

/James

On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 11:31:58 PM UTC+2, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
>
> It could be done, but it requires a reorganization of projects to folders.
> It's a single-time manual effort, so we could do it IMO.
>
> For plugins the same thing cannot be done without some DevOps stuff. We 
> have no database of plugin owners to drive it automagically.
>
> среда, 7 октября 2015 г., 19:50:45 UTC+3 пользователь Jesse Glick написал:
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 5:54 AM, James Nord  wrote: 
>> > you can perform releases directly from Jenkins™ (just as you can with 
>> the plugins). 
>>
>> Can we have the committer or author set to the logged-in user? 
>> Otherwise we just have no idea who performed a release. 
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/jenkinsci/maven-plugin/commit/1b292a33289c946969975416daa164489da9678f
>>  
>>
>

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Re: 2.0 - breaking out into multiple tracks

[Nigel Magnay]

> We have differing visions of what "Jenkins 2.0" would actually mean, and
> those visions are to a certain extent mutually incompatible - getting 2.0
> out in the timeframe Kohsuke has proposed wouldn't be possible if that
> requires not just the user experience work he has mentioned but also
> storage changes, a jenkins configuration API, etc...



​I don't understand the rush to label something as 2.0 ? Why not extend the
timeframe?

If the changes are so watered down - (no breaking changes, no database, no
jdk upgrade​) I don't really see the point of incrementing the big number.
Isn't it that just 'business as usual' ?

​I think a 2.0 should include all of the things you're identifying​. If
lots of things are constantly put off for 'we'll do that, but in v.Next as
it's a breaking change' surely it makes sense to actually do them, take the
hit in one go?

Also - why can't 1.xxx continue in parallel to 2.x ? That gives it a longer
time to cook, provide upgrade paths from 1.x. e.g: plugins could declare
themselves 'ready for 1->2 upgrade', and the installation could inform the
user 'you're good to go'. This is a fairly well-used pattern on other
projects

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Re: jenkins.ci library releases.

[Jesse Glick]

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 6:44 AM, James Nord  wrote:
> "[maven-release-plugin] (jnord) some-funky-library-1.2.3-4"  - but this
> would be the user on the CI system not the user on github.
>
> Would that work for you jesse?

Sure, better than nothing.

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Re: How to restore the setting encrypted by credential plugin?

[Jesse Glick]

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:16 AM, Ryanivanka  wrote:
> I tried to backup all the jenkins home, and re-deploy to a new machine, all 
> the credentials seems to fail, is the key have something related to machine 
> environment?

No. Perhaps you missed some files.

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Re: jenkins.ci library releases.

[James Nord]

Actually scratch that the push user is not the commiter or author.

We may be able to provide something quick in the commit message by making 
the Jenkins username part of the message?

"[maven-release-plugin] (jnord) some-funky-library-1.2.3-4"  - but this 
would be the user on the CI system not the user on github.

Would that work for you jesse?

/James

On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 12:38:18 PM UTC+2, James Nord wrote:
>
> Actually this is trivial to do with no restructuring.
>
> Just need to change the  in the pom.xml from 
> g...@github.com to https://github.com in the libraries.
>
> Whilst I thought about doing that I didn't want to incur the wrath of the 
> community when they could no longer easily release from their machine (if 
> they chose to)...
>
> /James
>
> On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 11:31:58 PM UTC+2, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
>>
>> It could be done, but it requires a reorganization of projects to folders.
>> It's a single-time manual effort, so we could do it IMO.
>>
>> For plugins the same thing cannot be done without some DevOps stuff. We 
>> have no database of plugin owners to drive it automagically.
>>
>> среда, 7 октября 2015 г., 19:50:45 UTC+3 пользователь Jesse Glick написал:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 5:54 AM, James Nord  wrote: 
>>> > you can perform releases directly from Jenkins™ (just as you can with 
>>> the plugins). 
>>>
>>> Can we have the committer or author set to the logged-in user? 
>>> Otherwise we just have no idea who performed a release. 
>>>
>>>
>>> https://github.com/jenkinsci/maven-plugin/commit/1b292a33289c946969975416daa164489da9678f
>>>  
>>>
>>

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Re: How to use latest jenkins version to debug plugin?

[Victor Martinez]

That's the way of updating the jenkins version dependency and if you see 
some weird changes in the style there was an UI change in the version 1.575 
(https://jenkins-ci.org/changelog) it might be related to that style issue

I hope it helps

On Thursday, 8 October 2015 10:45:00 UTC+2, Ryanivanka wrote:
>
> Hi Experts,
>
> I'm debugging credential plugin, which use 1.56 as default jenkins 
> version. I can hpi:run my plugin and access my jenkin web page on 
> http://localhost:8080/jenkins
>
> But the version is too old, I want to install other plugin to check some 
> behavior. *How can I change the default jenkin version?*
>
> I have tried to update the pom.xml to use 1.632 version.
>
> 
> org.jenkins-ci.plugins
> plugin
> 1.632
> 
>
> and update the intellij project file credentials.iml, to use all 1.632 
> jenkins jar. 
>
> After I clean and install, and run the debug jenkins instance, the page 
> become unreadable, like losing some style. Obviously, my update is not 
> right. 
>
> *Is there any way to update the jenkins version for debugging plugin?*
>
> Thanks a lot,
> Ryanivanka
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: 2.0 - breaking out into multiple tracks

[Nigel Magnay]

>
>
> Ok, I'll bite.
>
> There are a number of conflicting things we need to balance.
>
> * There are some bigger UI/UX refreshes that we want to get out to
> users. A long standing complaint is that the Jenkins UI/UX is dated.
> Moving to a 2.0 label corresponding to the visible UI changes helps
> advertise the fact that the Jenkins UI/UX is being updated

* It is hard enough getting users to upgrade to LTS lines, when they
> see a 2.0, there will be a bigger fear of upgrade breakages... in a
> sense that is why we have not done a 2.0 yet... I believe that to be a
> mistake. I think a better thing to do is to bump the major version
> more regularly... so I would see 2.0 being the 2016 release, 3.0 being
> the 2017 release, etc (though KK may feel differently). If users build
> up the expectation that "yes it's a major bump, but normally they
> don't break too much in a major bump... it's more like jumping 4 or 5
> LTSes" then we can keep the users with us.
>

I don't follow why that's a bad thing though.

"Users" ​are trained - by basically the entire software industry and for
better or worse - to feel that a 1.x -> 1.y upgrade they can consider
'easy', but a 1.x to a 2.0 should be considered 'harder', and at least to
read the changelog before performing an upgrade. We even codified it as
'semantic versioning'.

If I understand your goal, it's to try to un-train that behaviour, so
somehow users will learn that - for Jenkins - an v(x) -> v(x+1) *isn't* a
'hard' change.

​The problem I have with that is a) it's counter to expectations, and b)
what do you do if you *do* want to signal a major bump with compatibility
consequences?


* We all have our pet crappy APIs that we want to kill off... the
> allure of a major version bump is a siren luring us towards breaking
> more stuff
>
> So I see Jenkins 2.0 more as a new version numbering scheme...
>
> We could call it Jenkins 2016 rather than 2.0... but that would set an
> expectation that in 2017 we would roll out a 2017... given how hard we
> find sticking to the LTS schedule I'd rather go with a major version
> bump every 12-18 months.
>
> Then we can set out a deprecation policy, say that we remove APIs that
> have been deprecated for 2 or more major version numbers... perhaps we
> can use some static analysis or other tooling to alert you if your
> plugins are using deprecated APIs.
>

​Fine, but as a plugin writer it feels like death by a thousand tiny cuts.
I'd rather a direct train from A to B, rather than stopping at all the
minor stations in-between.

Part of the reason I think there is excitement about a '2.0 line' *is* the
​ability to break long-standing compatibility - to finally address some of
the stuff that's perennially kicked into the long grass. I think there's a
tension between a commercial desire to maintain high levels of backwards
compatibility, and a developer desire to get on and fix stuff. Endlessly
updating plugins as Jenkins painfully modernises inch-by-inch isn't much
fun.

​



> In my vision, thus, Jenkins 2.0 is about sending a message that the
> project is changing how it views compatability with the past... it's
> still important so we are not removing dead APIs yet, but we have to
> start putting lines in the sand so that we can remove dead APIs in the
> future.
>
>
​I'd rather 2.0 *was* the one where the dead APIs were removed.​ That
matches my expectation of what a 'big number change' means.




> >
> > If the changes are so watered down - (no breaking changes, no database,
> no
> > jdk upgrade) I don't really see the point of incrementing the big number.
> > Isn't it that just 'business as usual' ?
>
> It's about setting expectations for subsequent versions.
>
>



> >
> > I think a 2.0 should include all of the things you're identifying. If
> lots
> > of things are constantly put off for 'we'll do that, but in v.Next as
> it's a
> > breaking change' surely it makes sense to actually do them, take the hit
> in
> > one go?
> >
> > Also - why can't 1.xxx continue in parallel to 2.x ? That gives it a
> longer
> > time to cook, provide upgrade paths from 1.x. e.g: plugins could declare
> > themselves 'ready for 1->2 upgrade', and the installation could inform
> the
> > user 'you're good to go'. This is a fairly well-used pattern on other
> > projects
>
> Python 3 anyone?
>

​Linux 2.4 / 2.6? Ubuntu? We already manage an LTS line.

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Re: How to use latest jenkins version to debug plugin?

[Ryanivanka]

Thank you Victor. If I only change the version in pom.xml and use maven to
rebuild, it won't load the latest CSS file? I expect it's contained in jar.
How can I fix this?

2015-10-08 18:57 GMT+08:00 Victor Martinez :

> That's the way of updating the jenkins version dependency and if you see
> some weird changes in the style there was an UI change in the version 1.575
> (https://jenkins-ci.org/changelog) it might be related to that style issue
>
> I hope it helps
>
> On Thursday, 8 October 2015 10:45:00 UTC+2, Ryanivanka wrote:
>>
>> Hi Experts,
>>
>> I'm debugging credential plugin, which use 1.56 as default jenkins
>> version. I can hpi:run my plugin and access my jenkin web page on
>> http://localhost:8080/jenkins
>>
>> But the version is too old, I want to install other plugin to check some
>> behavior. *How can I change the default jenkin version?*
>>
>> I have tried to update the pom.xml to use 1.632 version.
>>
>> 
>> org.jenkins-ci.plugins
>> plugin
>> 1.632
>> 
>>
>> and update the intellij project file credentials.iml, to use all 1.632
>> jenkins jar.
>>
>> After I clean and install, and run the debug jenkins instance, the page
>> become unreadable, like losing some style. Obviously, my update is not
>> right.
>>
>> *Is there any way to update the jenkins version for debugging plugin?*
>>
>> Thanks a lot,
>> Ryanivanka
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Refreshing the Jenkins UI

[Kayn Ty]

glad to hear it is still up!
no problem with jelly, i am used to Twig template engine and Angularjs, it 
should be not so different.

I recommend to use NPM and Gulp for front-end workflow improovements (auto 
refreshing localhost, compiling, concatenating, managing dependencies, 
check test coverage).
I personally prefer SASS than less to compile the css, it is more powerful 
and fast.
Jasmine is also a great companion to test things.
bootstrap and font-awesome are also great sidekicks to theme with ease. All 
these tools could be launched easily when you start from scratch by an 
other one called Yeoman webapp generator ("yo" on NPM).

so as a first step i cloned the official repo to my own github
https://github.com/tykayn/jenkins

i also found this uitheme plugin, 
https://github.com/jenkinsci/uithemes-plugin maybe i would be more 
efficient to contribute on this if i want to build a custom theme, but i 
should first understand how to make a processor 
 module 
if i understood well the readme.


Le mardi 6 octobre 2015 19:27:36 UTC+2, Gus Reiber a écrit :
>
> Hey Kayn!
>Awesome.
> Unfortunately, theming has died on the vine here a little bit. My friend 
> and co-worker, Tom Fennelly had/has queued up some some core changes for 
> Jenkins geared toward enabling LESS driven CSS to manipulate a significant 
> portion of the Jenkins GUI, but that PR died in review.
>
> Since then, he and I with some guidance from KK and Daniel Beck have been 
> looking for inroads to refactor the existing Jenkins DOM to be a little 
> more semantic and refactor the Javascript to be a little more modern and a 
> little more amenable to testing via Node.js and Jasmine.
>
> ...so the good news is that you are at the very front of the line for 
> providing input on how all this should be done. The bad news is that at the 
> moment, there isn't really any doc, largely because the enabling 
> infrastructure isn't yet fully born.
>
> If you can tolerate some amount of work-in-progress vibe, feel free to 
> contact me direction and I will do what I can to get you up and show you 
> around, greiber(at-sign)cloudbees(dot-com).
>
> You can also follow my efforts (an any other Jenkins GUI efforts I am 
> aware of) via Twitter: @gusreiber 
> You can also follow me on Google+: plus.google.com/+GusReiberUI/posts
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 6:42:29 AM UTC-7, Kayn Ty wrote:
>>
>> hi folks,
>> i would love to contribute to this UI refresh.
>> i am looking for ressources to understand how it is organised and how to 
>> test my new theme locally. (i know nothing about java, i am a front end dev)
>> i can't find docs about theming, can you show me please ?
>>
>> Le lundi 26 mai 2014 15:54:21 UTC+2, Tom Fennelly a écrit :
>>>
>>> Hi guys.
>>>
>>> I've just started looking into ways in which we can "refresh" the look 
>>> and feel of the Jenkins UI, as well as looking at tackling some of the main 
>>> usability issues.  I've really only started, but have committed a small bit 
>>> of code to a branch on github at 
>>> https://github.com/tfennelly/jenkins/tree/ui-refresh.  As you might 
>>> notice... Daniel Beck has already posted some good comments/feedback on 
>>> the commit 
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>> What I've experimented with so far:
>>>
>>>1. Tweaking the main layout in 
>>>core/src/main/resources/lib/layout/layout.jelly (and added some CSS to 
>>>style.css).  Everything was layed out with tables, so I changed that to 
>>> use 
>>>divs instead, allowing us to more easily do things like make the sidebar 
>>>disappear on small screens (if that was a good idea) etc etc.  Here's a 
>>>screenshot of that: 
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/vngs5jjailatanq/Screenshot%202014-05-26%2012.49.31.png
>>>2. Modified the main project/job configuration page, in an effort to 
>>>make it less cluttered, by adding accordions for the different config 
>>>sections.  The only way I found I could do this was to wire in some 
>>>javascript to manipulate the page post-rendering.  Kohsuke says there's 
>>> a 
>>>way of doing the bulk of the DOM manipulation within Jelly templates, 
>>> but I 
>>>failed to work that one out yet - I'm sure it will be "obvious" after I 
>>> see 
>>>it :)  Not sure if accordions are the correct choice.  Here's a 
>>> screenshot 
>>>of what it looks like: 
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wsy96r1czhzhy5z/Screenshot%202014-05-26%2012.54.39.png
>>>
>>> The above commit obviously breaks things e.g. the breadcrumbs + some of 
>>> the styling is screwed up (I added Twitter bootstrap, causing the css's to 
>>> clash).  What I've done so far is really just hacking to see what we could 
>>> do.  I'm keen to hear the opinions of the community... what people thing we 
>>> should concentrate on... what should we avoid... 

Re: 2.0 - breaking out into multiple tracks

[Andrew Bayer]

That sounds reasonable to me. Given the likelihood that I misjudged how
long the storage change would take, it's very plausible that any of the
larger architectural improvements would take long enough to wait for late
2016.
On Oct 8, 2015 14:57, "Baptiste Mathus"  wrote:

> Maybe the tick-tock model Oleg proposed could be adopted? And IIUC, that
> would also kind of match Stephen's vision about updating major version
> number more often.
>
> This way:
> * 2.0 could be a mostly be a user facing changes release, to be expected
> in early 2016.
> * while work on 3.0 could be announced with potentially more technically
> disruptive changes, with an alpha to be expected around 2nd mid/end 2016
> for example? And GA end 2016/early 2017?
> (Obviously not pursuing 'breaking' changes per-se, goes wo saying I guess,
> but more to fix actual longstanding issues)
>
> My 2 cents
>
> 2015-10-08 14:08 GMT+02:00 Andrew Bayer :
>
>> Fair enough.
>> On Oct 8, 2015 14:04, "Jesse Glick"  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:00 AM, Andrew Bayer 
>>> wrote:
>>> > Pluggable storage/database backend - Scope to be determined, myself as
>>> > shepherd, target release date of April 2016.
>>>
>>> This seems a very optimistic schedule based on my experience of what
>>> ought to have been far simpler modifications.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
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>>> an email to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CANfRfr2dMrOqZYs8m15sH5SJ2A%2BsB6nbQi%3DwwEmHqw0wWXKKgg%40mail.gmail.com
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>> --
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>> 
>> .
>>
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Baptiste  MATHUS - http://batmat.net
> Sauvez un arbre,
> Mangez un castor !
>
> --
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Re: Refreshing the Jenkins UI

[Tom Fennelly]

Hi Kayn.

There's also an ongoing conversation about Jenkins 2.0. It's hoped that a 
big part of this will be improvements to the UX.  KK listed UX as being 
high on his wish list.

>From a UX perspective, we've been trying to put some things in place to 
help us do things better (using more modern tools, better patterns etc). 
See my early contribution on this topic to the Jenkins 2.0 thread 
. 
Hopefully it will help give some perspective.

Regards,

Tom.

On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 2:24:40 PM UTC+1, Kayn Ty wrote:
>
> glad to hear it is still up!
> no problem with jelly, i am used to Twig template engine and Angularjs, it 
> should be not so different.
>
> I recommend to use NPM and Gulp for front-end workflow improovements (auto 
> refreshing localhost, compiling, concatenating, managing dependencies, 
> check test coverage).
> I personally prefer SASS than less to compile the css, it is more powerful 
> and fast.
> Jasmine is also a great companion to test things.
> bootstrap and font-awesome are also great sidekicks to theme with ease. 
> All these tools could be launched easily when you start from scratch by an 
> other one called Yeoman webapp generator ("yo" on NPM).
>
> so as a first step i cloned the official repo to my own github
> https://github.com/tykayn/jenkins
>
> i also found this uitheme plugin, 
> https://github.com/jenkinsci/uithemes-plugin maybe i would be more 
> efficient to contribute on this if i want to build a custom theme, but i 
> should first understand how to make a processor 
>  
> module if i understood well the readme.
>
>
> Le mardi 6 octobre 2015 19:27:36 UTC+2, Gus Reiber a écrit :
>>
>> Hey Kayn!
>>Awesome.
>> Unfortunately, theming has died on the vine here a little bit. My friend 
>> and co-worker, Tom Fennelly had/has queued up some some core changes for 
>> Jenkins geared toward enabling LESS driven CSS to manipulate a significant 
>> portion of the Jenkins GUI, but that PR died in review.
>>
>> Since then, he and I with some guidance from KK and Daniel Beck have been 
>> looking for inroads to refactor the existing Jenkins DOM to be a little 
>> more semantic and refactor the Javascript to be a little more modern and a 
>> little more amenable to testing via Node.js and Jasmine.
>>
>> ...so the good news is that you are at the very front of the line for 
>> providing input on how all this should be done. The bad news is that at the 
>> moment, there isn't really any doc, largely because the enabling 
>> infrastructure isn't yet fully born.
>>
>> If you can tolerate some amount of work-in-progress vibe, feel free to 
>> contact me direction and I will do what I can to get you up and show you 
>> around, greiber(at-sign)cloudbees(dot-com).
>>
>> You can also follow my efforts (an any other Jenkins GUI efforts I am 
>> aware of) via Twitter: @gusreiber 
>> You can also follow me on Google+: plus.google.com/+GusReiberUI/posts
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 6:42:29 AM UTC-7, Kayn Ty wrote:
>>>
>>> hi folks,
>>> i would love to contribute to this UI refresh.
>>> i am looking for ressources to understand how it is organised and how to 
>>> test my new theme locally. (i know nothing about java, i am a front end dev)
>>> i can't find docs about theming, can you show me please ?
>>>
>>> Le lundi 26 mai 2014 15:54:21 UTC+2, Tom Fennelly a écrit :

 Hi guys.

 I've just started looking into ways in which we can "refresh" the look 
 and feel of the Jenkins UI, as well as looking at tackling some of the 
 main 
 usability issues.  I've really only started, but have committed a small 
 bit 
 of code to a branch on github at 
 https://github.com/tfennelly/jenkins/tree/ui-refresh.  As you might 
 notice... Daniel Beck has already posted some good comments/feedback 
 on the commit 
 
 .

 What I've experimented with so far:

1. Tweaking the main layout in 
core/src/main/resources/lib/layout/layout.jelly (and added some CSS to 
style.css).  Everything was layed out with tables, so I changed that to 
 use 
divs instead, allowing us to more easily do things like make the 
 sidebar 
disappear on small screens (if that was a good idea) etc etc.  Here's a 
screenshot of that: 

 https://www.dropbox.com/s/vngs5jjailatanq/Screenshot%202014-05-26%2012.49.31.png
2. Modified the main project/job configuration page, in an effort 
to make it less cluttered, by adding accordions for the different 
 config 
sections.  The only way I found I could do this was to wire in some 
javascript to manipulate the page post-rendering.  Kohsuke says there's 
 a 
way of doing 

Re: Build Pipeline Plugin

[Dan Alvizu]

I'm interested in being a maintainer, if you need help. I have a few 
pending PRs myself:

https://github.com/jenkinsci/build-pipeline-plugin/pull/89
https://github.com/jenkinsci/build-pipeline-plugin/pull/79


On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 2:24:34 PM UTC-6, Manuel Recena Soto wrote:
>
> @martinda I'll try to help. If you are interested to "adopt" this 
> plugin, we can work together. 
>
> 2015-10-07 19:56 GMT+02:00 Kanstantsin Shautsou  >: 
> > Author blessed @Recena to work on it, i have no objections. Only 
> suggestion 
> > to keep web integration tests working (tested on firefox). 
> > Do you want to be a maintainer? 
> > 
> > On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 8:43:07 PM UTC+3, martinda wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Any update on the discussion around the ownership of this plugin? Lots 
> of 
> >> pending pull-requests, and I have an itch too (JENKINS-30813). 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups 
> > "Jenkins Developers" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an 
> > email to jenkinsci-de...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> > 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/0e062291-b1c1-45e3-8729-e21ab87be2bb%40googlegroups.com.
>  
>
> > 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>
>
>
> -- 
> Manuel Recena Soto 
> * manuelrecena.com [/blog] 
> * linkedin.com/in/recena 
>

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Re: How to use latest jenkins version to debug plugin?

[Victor Martinez]

You might need to.remove that build.generated folder via mvn clean and likely 
another generated folder which.contains the JENKINS_HOME data, then those cache 
data won't be there and you will have a clear jenkins instance

I hope it helps

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Re: [2.0] Website rebump

[Kohsuke Kawaguchi]

2015-10-08 4:06 GMT-07:00 Nigel Magnay :

> +1
>
> I'd imagined something like www.git-scm.com. They've had over 100
> individual contributors.
>

Yep, another static site backed by Git ... oh wait, it's actually a Rails
app. Hmm.


> I'd completely bin comments. I don't see why the site needs to *host* a
> blog - why can't it just be links to Jenkins articles elsewhere.
>

http://jenkins-ci.org/node is one of the few channels that we have to reach
to users. So I hope everyone agrees that we should continue that,
regardless of where it ends up to be.

The reason I advocate for putting it together with the website is (1)
that's where it is today, and (2) this is one of the contents for which we
want more contributors, so git+PR model helps.


> Bigger requirements just end up sucking you towards the cpu-suck,
> security-nightmare and 'who has review/approve and commit bits' CRM
> nightmares like Wordpress.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:45 AM, Daniel Beck  wrote:
>
>> So from aggregating existing comments it looks to me like the following
>> seems to be at least a reasonable basis for further discussion:
>>
>> * Use a static site generator with a Git repo on GitHub as the source for
>> the site. Goal: Allow community to contribute content.
>>   [Updated Confluence could also work, but would retain the problems of
>> unreviewed content, comments, and non-plain text editing.]
>> * Have actual content, like good documentation, especially for getting
>> started. This includes moving some of the wiki's content into the site.
>> * Feature the blog [and possibly the event calendar] more prominently.
>> * Do not have "comments everywhere", limit to specific sections like the
>> blog.
>> * Make it easy to contribute, possibly through having an "Edit" ("Improve
>> this page"?) link on every page, if possible.
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> --
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>
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-- 
Kohsuke Kawaguchi

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Re: [2.0] Website rebump

[Kohsuke Kawaguchi]

2015-10-08 3:08 GMT-07:00 Robert Sandell :

> Do we have any site statistics on the current site of what pages are most
> frequently viewed? That could feed into a perhaps better discussion on what
> type of information to focus on.
>

We have it connected to Google Analytics. I think Tyler has access to it
but I don't.


One thing that makes me a bit uneasy in the discussion so far is the fact
> that both Daniel and Gus seems to glance over the "Documentation" part as
> just being a category and not that there are many important things behind
> that category.
>
> To me one of the "selling points" of choosing Jenkins way back in the day
> was the meaning behind "Highly Extensible". It doesn't only mean that there
> are 1095 different plugins I can install, but that there is a possibility
> that I can make Jenkins do whatever *I* want.
> Something that today is very front and center on the home page. By
> clicking the link "Extend Jenkins" I can learn how to do that (we can
> perhaps argue about the quality of the docs behind that link) but the fact
> that it's front and center on the page is an important notion to me and a
> very important feature of Jenkins itself and possible the biggest reason
> for us having such a wonderful and vibrant dev community could be
> attributed to the fact that users can "upgrade" themselves with just a
> click on the home page instead of diving into the depths of the
> documentation pages. And I think that's nothing to be glanced over and just
> put into the "Documentation" category.
>
> Yes in the theme of 2.0 it is important to focus on new visitors/users,
> but I would argue that it's equally important to cater to the users that
> are coming back to the site after the initial experience, and make them
> want to come back for more in depth knowledge.
>

I think in due time the discussion will shift more and more to contents and
less on tech. It's already happening!

And I fully agree that "extending Jenkins" is an important part of the
value that we want to pitch.

I could really use somebody with an experience in this to guide us through,
but what I thought Gus told me is that we first want to hash out what
content we need to be on the website, then figure out which ones are more
important and what personas we are targetting. Then how to organize the
content kinda follow from there.



>
> /B
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Daniel Beck  wrote:
>
>> On 08.10.2015, at 06:39, Gus Reiber  wrote:
>>
>> > I understand the urge to keep the scope manageable, but I am not sure I
>> see in Daniel's list where the improvement is likely to come. It is a
>> little concern of mine that we are emphasizing ease of authorship for a
>> reasonably small subset of Jenkins users (those who write code) over the
>> general usability of the site. ...but if we don't get content authored, it
>> won't be much of site, so... pick your poison, I guess.
>>
>> Think about the kind of software Jenkins is. The least technical person
>> to use Jenkins is probably an engineering manager, and I doubt they're
>> going to contribute to the site. The vast majority of serious users are
>> admins, developers, testers, or similar roles. All of them write code, at
>> least scripts. All of them can handle text editors and don't think of Word
>> when they hear that term.
>>
>> > • I would have ordered your list of content areas by importance and
>> placed plugins at or near the top. I think we are doing a bit of a hand
>> wave there. It can and should be A LOT better than it is today, with
>> browsing, searching, ratings and reviews. If we did that alone, we will
>> have greatly advanced this site. Not doing so, I think, would be a big
>> opportunity missed.
>>
>> Absolutely agree. Plugins are important and we need something better than
>> a flat list. Not sure about ratings/reviews (may be too high a bar for the
>> initial release), but as I wrote, the plugins microsite can always be
>> extended to cover more. One of the things that would make sense would be
>> including popularity, both absolutely install count and recent growth.
>>
>> Regarding ordering, it's essentially the one I'd use on the menu, in
>> (mostly) increasing levels of involvement, rather than the weight placed on
>> each section.
>>
>> > • Search seems to be missing from both the doc and the blog. I wouldn't
>> say the blog is good today. You can't browse it and you cannot search it.
>> Basically, if an article is more than a week old, good luck finding it. It
>> might be that we just want to punt and port the blog to flat files and call
>> that good. ...but if we want to make it better, the blog should be
>> browsable by author, category and rating, as well as searchable. Any number
>> of free-ware blog sites and tools offer these basics out of the box.
>> > • Doc needs to be searchable. Ideally it would also be integrated with
>> technical blog posts and javadoc, If our 

Re: Safari icon plugin

[Kohsuke Kawaguchi]

Thanks, this is cool.

Any reason this shouldn't be a part of the core? I'd love to integrate it
in there. It's just adding a  tag, right?

2015-10-08 10:56 GMT-07:00 Sunil Patel :

> Hello!
>
> Safari 9.0 introduced the ability to pin tabs. The icons for these must be
> a solid black svg (and as such the favicon can't be used).
>
> If you want to add the icon to your jenkins, my super tiny plug-in to do
> that is here:
> https://github.com/srpatel/jenkins-pinned-tab
>
> (jenkins-ci username = archduke)
>
> Thanks
> sunil.
>
> --
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> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Kohsuke Kawaguchi

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Safari icon plugin

[Sunil Patel]

Hello!

Safari 9.0 introduced the ability to pin tabs. The icons for these must be 
a solid black svg (and as such the favicon can't be used).

If you want to add the icon to your jenkins, my super tiny plug-in to do 
that is here:
https://github.com/srpatel/jenkins-pinned-tab

(jenkins-ci username = archduke)

Thanks
sunil.

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Re: FW: Jenkins CIA event

[blinder]

Alyssa,
 
Thanks! The event is confirmed.
 
Finishing the slides tomorrow-ish, so blog could be tomorrow or more likely this weekend.
 
The address in my sig is perfect for stickers and stuff. :)
 
T-shirt sizes: I'm a 4xlt when I can find it. I can guess on Rick and Jennifer, but prefer they chime in here (both are CCd). If there are any extra t-shirts, Mike and Nicole will also be at this event, and promoting our use of Jenkins at the booth - just not at this specific presentation. So please let me know if you want their sizes as well.
 
RE: Help, if those standard slides were ever created we could take a quick look at them for potential inclusion. If not, we'll go with our finalization efforts in progress and let you know if we can think of any other way you could help. Winning lotto tickets are always welcomed!
 
Thanks again!
Bryan
 

-Original Message-From: "Alyssa Tong" Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 16:52To: "Jenkins Dev" , rfaul...@tapqa.com, jbon...@tapqa.comSubject: Re: FW: Jenkins CIA event

Hi Bryan,
Thanks for reaching out. We'd love to have you (Rick, and Jennifer) as CIA. Is your event confirmed as we'll get it added to the events calendar. The next step is having you/Rick or Jennifer do a blog post about your talk to help give it some visibility, would you have ETA for this? As for swag - should we send it to the address in your email signature? Could I pls get your t-shirt sizes pls. In the mean time, if there's anything you need to help you w/ your session, pls don't hesitate to ask.
thanks,
alyssa


On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:50 AM,  wrote:

Trying again now that I... completely... subscribed to the group. :)

-Original Message-From: blin...@tapqa.comSent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 13:22To: jenkinsci-dev@googlegroups.comCc: "Richard Faulise" , "Jennifer Bonine" Subject: Jenkins CIA event

Hi there!
 
We (Rick, Jennifer and I) are presenting at the TechWell DevOps/Agile/Mobile conference next month, and are very interested in the Jenkins CIA program.
 
Our session is on Tuesday November 10th 8:30 am. It is at the Hilton Lake Buena Vista in Disney. Does this qualify as a "public" event?
 
Not sure how many will be in attendance, but based on previous events I'd guess somewhere between 40 and 130.
 
Thanks and hope this helps,
Bryan A. Linder
Principal Consultant
Mobile: 952.221.9283 | Home Office: 651.433.5931 |  blin...@tapqa.com  |  www.tapQA.com   
1660 South Hwy 100, Suite 260, Minneapolis, MN 55416
 
 
 


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Re: [2.0] Website rebump

[Gus Reiber]

Oh no The internet never forgets!
...tonight I am going to party like it is 1999:
https://web.archive.org/web/2816062846/http://devex.allaire.com/developer/gallery/index.cfm

...I take it back.
App Stores are way, way, way sexier.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 2:06 PM, Christopher Orr  wrote:

> Thanks for the explanation, and video!  Do you have any old screenshots
> of the Allaire stuff, out of curiosity?
>
> That grid does seems nice, and yeah, we do know which plugins are newest
> (I'm a fan of @jenkins_release) though I do prefer the version without
> icons.. :)
>
> Getting plugin developers to *name* their plugin in a reasonable (and
> consistent) way is hard enough, never mind getting them to add a wiki
> page, and then add a short but meaningful description there... so I'm
> going to be pessimistic about icons, I'm afraid.
>
> Regards,
> Chris
>
>
> On 08/10/15 22:58, Gus Reiber wrote:
> > I think plugins are almost exactly like apps in an app store. Way back
> > when I worked at Allaire, we (Mike Nimer and I) built a Developer's
> > exchange that featured CFML applets and code snippets. That experience
> > was designed very much like today's app-stores (but with older and
> > crappier web-tech). It wasn't as sex as an app-store, but a lot sexier
> > than random text articles. They also had interesting metadata that was
> > associated with them, that again matches our plugins almost exactly:
> > Their review ranking, installation share (% of Jenkins users using this
> > plugin), a category badge  ...and though I have gotten negative pushback
> > about this before, I don't think it would unreasonable to ask plugin
> > authors to give their plugin an icon.
> >
> > ...something like this, but more of a website form factor than an in-app
> > form factor:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcxKvyX4Oq8
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vPUMe3lzfo
> >
> > ...the form factor isn't quite right for a website, but yeah, the
> > sorting, grouping, categorizing is pretty close.
> >
> > ...the fresh content is new plugins or plugins that are freshly updated.
> > The other fresh content is the reviews of those plugins. We can automate
> > which plugins we show based on user feedback.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Christopher Orr  > > wrote:
> >
> > On 08/10/15 21:44, Baptiste Mathus wrote:
> > > 2015-10-08 20:36 GMT+02:00 Gus Reiber  
> > > >>:
> > > Personally, I think the demonstration of Jenkins
> extensibility
> > > is more impressive than the saying of it. And, that
> demonstration is
> > > the plugins. Thus rather than an article that say 'hey look,
> we are
> > > extensible', I would think we would just want to go straight
> into
> > > showing off the plugins, just as http://getbootstrap.com/ goes
> > > straight into showing you Bootstrap or the Play store goes
> straight
> > > into showing you the Andoid apps or http://www.deviantart.com/
> goes
> > > straight into showing you the art. To me, showing off the
> plugins
> > > screams extensibility and the content stays fresh by virtue of
> the
> > > fact that people are interacting with the plugins themselves.
> > >
> > > You convinced me Gus.
> > >
> > > IMO, we can indeed show off the plugins, showing the enormous
> numbers of
> > > themes where Jenkins can actually change its behaviour by being
> > > extensible and having been extended by plugins.
> >
> > My question is: how do you "show off a plugin"?
> >
> > Jenkins plugins aren't Bootstrap themes, nor are they Android apps —
> the
> > most you could show off for the vast majority of plugins would be a
> > screenshot of an ugly configuration form.
> >
> > I'm not sure what "the content stays fresh" means in this context,
> and
> > who (and how) people are "interacting with the plugins" on the
> website?
> >
> > Is the idea to have specially-written content (i.e. separate from the
> > wiki page that every plugin has), which highlights key plugins on the
> > main website?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Chris
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in
> > the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> >
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> >
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> .
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> >
> >

Re: [2.0] Website rebump

[Christopher Orr]

On 08/10/15 21:44, Baptiste Mathus wrote:
> 2015-10-08 20:36 GMT+02:00 Gus Reiber  >:
> Personally, I think the demonstration of Jenkins extensibility
> is more impressive than the saying of it. And, that demonstration is
> the plugins. Thus rather than an article that say 'hey look, we are
> extensible', I would think we would just want to go straight into
> showing off the plugins, just as http://getbootstrap.com/ goes
> straight into showing you Bootstrap or the Play store goes straight
> into showing you the Andoid apps or http://www.deviantart.com/ goes
> straight into showing you the art. To me, showing off the plugins
> screams extensibility and the content stays fresh by virtue of the
> fact that people are interacting with the plugins themselves. 
> 
> You convinced me Gus. 
> 
> IMO, we can indeed show off the plugins, showing the enormous numbers of
> themes where Jenkins can actually change its behaviour by being
> extensible and having been extended by plugins.

My question is: how do you "show off a plugin"?

Jenkins plugins aren't Bootstrap themes, nor are they Android apps — the
most you could show off for the vast majority of plugins would be a
screenshot of an ugly configuration form.

I'm not sure what "the content stays fresh" means in this context, and
who (and how) people are "interacting with the plugins" on the website?

Is the idea to have specially-written content (i.e. separate from the
wiki page that every plugin has), which highlights key plugins on the
main website?

Regards,
Chris

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Re: FW: Jenkins CIA event

[Alyssa Tong]

LOL! lotto ticket is an excellent idea! we may just send you a
couple..winning ticket is not guaranteed of course :o)

Lemme check on those standard slides for you. If it's currently not avail
now, i'll see if we can have something by your session date (no promises
tho :o). Do you have plans on where your next Jenkins CIA session(s) will
be after this one?

Pls go ahead and send me the other t-shirt sizes.

Looking forward to your blog.

thnx
alyssa

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:01 PM,  wrote:

> Alyssa,
>
>
>
> Thanks! The event is confirmed.
>
>
>
> Finishing the slides tomorrow-ish, so blog could be tomorrow or more
> likely this weekend.
>
>
>
> The address in my sig is perfect for stickers and stuff. :)
>
>
>
> T-shirt sizes: I'm a 4xlt when I can find it. I can guess on Rick and
> Jennifer, but prefer they chime in here (both are CCd). If there are any
> extra t-shirts, Mike and Nicole will also be at this event, and promoting
> our use of Jenkins at the booth - just not at this specific presentation.
> So please let me know if you want their sizes as well.
>
>
>
> RE: Help, if those standard slides were ever created we could take a quick
> look at them for potential inclusion. If not, we'll go with our
> finalization efforts in progress and let you know if we can think of any
> other way you could help. Winning lotto tickets are always welcomed!
>
>
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Alyssa Tong" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 16:52
> To: "Jenkins Dev" , rfaul...@tapqa.com,
> jbon...@tapqa.com
> Subject: Re: FW: Jenkins CIA event
>
> Hi Bryan,
> Thanks for reaching out. We'd love to have you (Rick, and Jennifer) as
> CIA. Is your event confirmed as we'll get it added to the events calendar
> . The next step is having
> you/Rick or Jennifer do a blog post about your talk to help give it some
> visibility, would you have ETA for this? As for swag - should we send it to
> the address in your email signature? Could I pls get your t-shirt sizes
> pls. In the mean time, if there's anything you need to help you w/ your
> session, pls don't hesitate to ask.
> thanks,
> alyssa
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:50 AM,  wrote:
>
>> Trying again now that I... completely... subscribed to the group. :)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: blin...@tapqa.com
>> Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 13:22
>> To: jenkinsci-dev@googlegroups.com
>> Cc: "Richard Faulise" , "Jennifer Bonine" <
>> jbon...@tapqa.com>
>> Subject: Jenkins CIA event
>>
>> Hi there!
>>
>>
>>
>> We (Rick, Jennifer and I) are presenting at the TechWell
>> DevOps/Agile/Mobile conference next month, and are very interested in the
>> Jenkins CIA program.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our session is on Tuesday November 10th 8:30 am. It is at the Hilton Lake
>> Buena Vista in Disney. Does this qualify as a "public" event?
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure how many will be in attendance, but based on previous events I'd
>> guess somewhere between 40 and 130.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks and hope this helps,
>>
>> *Bryan A. Linder*
>>
>> Principal Consultant
>>
>> Mobile: 952.221.9283 | Home Office: 651.433.5931 |  blin...@tapqa.com
>>   |  www.tapQA.com
>>
>> 1660 South Hwy 100, Suite 260, Minneapolis, MN 55416
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Jenkins Developers" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/1444330214.788210245%40apps.rackspace.com
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Jenkins Developers" group.
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> 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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Re: FW: Jenkins CIA event

[Alyssa Tong]

@ Bryan - pls send me the link to the event?

thnx
alyssa

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Alyssa Tong  wrote:

> LOL! lotto ticket is an excellent idea! we may just send you a
> couple..winning ticket is not guaranteed of course :o)
>
> Lemme check on those standard slides for you. If it's currently not avail
> now, i'll see if we can have something by your session date (no promises
> tho :o). Do you have plans on where your next Jenkins CIA session(s) will
> be after this one?
>
> Pls go ahead and send me the other t-shirt sizes.
>
> Looking forward to your blog.
>
> thnx
> alyssa
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:01 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Alyssa,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks! The event is confirmed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Finishing the slides tomorrow-ish, so blog could be tomorrow or more
>> likely this weekend.
>>
>>
>>
>> The address in my sig is perfect for stickers and stuff. :)
>>
>>
>>
>> T-shirt sizes: I'm a 4xlt when I can find it. I can guess on Rick and
>> Jennifer, but prefer they chime in here (both are CCd). If there are any
>> extra t-shirts, Mike and Nicole will also be at this event, and promoting
>> our use of Jenkins at the booth - just not at this specific presentation.
>> So please let me know if you want their sizes as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> RE: Help, if those standard slides were ever created we could take a
>> quick look at them for potential inclusion. If not, we'll go with our
>> finalization efforts in progress and let you know if we can think of any
>> other way you could help. Winning lotto tickets are always welcomed!
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Alyssa Tong" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 16:52
>> To: "Jenkins Dev" , rfaul...@tapqa.com,
>> jbon...@tapqa.com
>> Subject: Re: FW: Jenkins CIA event
>>
>> Hi Bryan,
>> Thanks for reaching out. We'd love to have you (Rick, and Jennifer) as
>> CIA. Is your event confirmed as we'll get it added to the events calendar
>> . The next step is having
>> you/Rick or Jennifer do a blog post about your talk to help give it some
>> visibility, would you have ETA for this? As for swag - should we send it to
>> the address in your email signature? Could I pls get your t-shirt sizes
>> pls. In the mean time, if there's anything you need to help you w/ your
>> session, pls don't hesitate to ask.
>> thanks,
>> alyssa
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:50 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Trying again now that I... completely... subscribed to the group. :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: blin...@tapqa.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 13:22
>>> To: jenkinsci-dev@googlegroups.com
>>> Cc: "Richard Faulise" , "Jennifer Bonine" <
>>> jbon...@tapqa.com>
>>> Subject: Jenkins CIA event
>>>
>>> Hi there!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We (Rick, Jennifer and I) are presenting at the TechWell
>>> DevOps/Agile/Mobile conference next month, and are very interested in the
>>> Jenkins CIA program.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our session is on Tuesday November 10th 8:30 am. It is at the Hilton
>>> Lake Buena Vista in Disney. Does this qualify as a "public" event?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure how many will be in attendance, but based on previous events
>>> I'd guess somewhere between 40 and 130.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks and hope this helps,
>>>
>>> *Bryan A. Linder*
>>>
>>> Principal Consultant
>>>
>>> Mobile: 952.221.9283 | Home Office: 651.433.5931 |  blin...@tapqa.com
>>>   |  www.tapQA.com
>>>
>>> 1660 South Hwy 100, Suite 260, Minneapolis, MN 55416
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to jenkinsci-dev+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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Re: [2.0] Website rebump

[Gus Reiber]

I think plugins are almost exactly like apps in an app store. Way back when
I worked at Allaire, we (Mike Nimer and I) built a Developer's exchange
that featured CFML applets and code snippets. That experience was designed
very much like today's app-stores (but with older and crappier web-tech).
It wasn't as sex as an app-store, but a lot sexier than random text
articles. They also had interesting metadata that was associated with them,
that again matches our plugins almost exactly: Their review ranking,
installation share (% of Jenkins users using this plugin), a category badge
 ...and though I have gotten negative pushback about this before, I don't
think it would unreasonable to ask plugin authors to give their plugin an
icon.

...something like this, but more of a website form factor than an in-app
form factor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcxKvyX4Oq8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vPUMe3lzfo

...the form factor isn't quite right for a website, but yeah, the sorting,
grouping, categorizing is pretty close.

...the fresh content is new plugins or plugins that are freshly updated.
The other fresh content is the reviews of those plugins. We can automate
which plugins we show based on user feedback.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Christopher Orr  wrote:

> On 08/10/15 21:44, Baptiste Mathus wrote:
> > 2015-10-08 20:36 GMT+02:00 Gus Reiber  > >:
> > Personally, I think the demonstration of Jenkins extensibility
> > is more impressive than the saying of it. And, that demonstration is
> > the plugins. Thus rather than an article that say 'hey look, we are
> > extensible', I would think we would just want to go straight into
> > showing off the plugins, just as http://getbootstrap.com/ goes
> > straight into showing you Bootstrap or the Play store goes straight
> > into showing you the Andoid apps or http://www.deviantart.com/ goes
> > straight into showing you the art. To me, showing off the plugins
> > screams extensibility and the content stays fresh by virtue of the
> > fact that people are interacting with the plugins themselves.
> >
> > You convinced me Gus.
> >
> > IMO, we can indeed show off the plugins, showing the enormous numbers of
> > themes where Jenkins can actually change its behaviour by being
> > extensible and having been extended by plugins.
>
> My question is: how do you "show off a plugin"?
>
> Jenkins plugins aren't Bootstrap themes, nor are they Android apps — the
> most you could show off for the vast majority of plugins would be a
> screenshot of an ugly configuration form.
>
> I'm not sure what "the content stays fresh" means in this context, and
> who (and how) people are "interacting with the plugins" on the website?
>
> Is the idea to have specially-written content (i.e. separate from the
> wiki page that every plugin has), which highlights key plugins on the
> main website?
>
> Regards,
> Chris
>
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Re: FW: Jenkins CIA event

[Alyssa Tong]

Hi Bryan,

Thanks for reaching out. We'd love to have you (Rick, and Jennifer) as CIA.
Is your event confirmed as we'll get it added to the events calendar
. The next step is having
you/Rick or Jennifer do a blog post about your talk to help give it some
visibility, would you have ETA for this? As for swag - should we send it to
the address in your email signature? Could I pls get your t-shirt sizes
pls. In the mean time, if there's anything you need to help you w/ your
session, pls don't hesitate to ask.

thanks,
alyssa

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:50 AM,  wrote:

> Trying again now that I... completely... subscribed to the group. :)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: blin...@tapqa.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 13:22
> To: jenkinsci-dev@googlegroups.com
> Cc: "Richard Faulise" , "Jennifer Bonine" <
> jbon...@tapqa.com>
> Subject: Jenkins CIA event
>
> Hi there!
>
>
>
> We (Rick, Jennifer and I) are presenting at the TechWell
> DevOps/Agile/Mobile conference next month, and are very interested in the
> Jenkins CIA program.
>
>
>
> Our session is on Tuesday November 10th 8:30 am. It is at the Hilton Lake
> Buena Vista in Disney. Does this qualify as a "public" event?
>
>
>
> Not sure how many will be in attendance, but based on previous events I'd
> guess somewhere between 40 and 130.
>
>
>
> Thanks and hope this helps,
>
> *Bryan A. Linder*
>
> Principal Consultant
>
> Mobile: 952.221.9283 | Home Office: 651.433.5931 |  blin...@tapqa.com
>   |  www.tapQA.com
>
> 1660 South Hwy 100, Suite 260, Minneapolis, MN 55416
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [2.0] Website rebump

[Daniel Beck]

On 08.10.2015, at 23:12, Christopher Orr  wrote:

> Static site generation would be great, but as Richard commented on
> INFRA-373 (and I agreed), it becomes a bit difficult to contribute to a
> site like this when testing your contribution properly requires
> installing a site generator with a learning curve (i.e. anything
> involving Ruby, in my case).

If you just contribute content (i.e. don't toy around with internals), 90+% of 
that should be doable with GitHub's preview.

Since it's static we may even be able to have the CI build generate a zip file 
you could download and extract and that's the site, similar to e.g. Javadocs. 
So no need to run the tooling yourself, just download whatever the CI build 
generates and take a look.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of contributions by people who aren't 
"regulars" will be very simple, like adding a new blog post, a link to 
somewhere else, or improving existing documentation. And those should be 
trivial.

> Maybe I just dislike Jekyll and Ruby (even although I use it), but in
> any case, most people can manage with Markdown, and there are ways of
> previewing that without having the full static site setup.

Exactly!

> I don't know whether comments on the blogs are useful — better would be
> to direct people straight to the blog author via email, or to the
> users/dev list?
> Nobody monitors the blog comments, and so the reply rate is virtually
> zero (in the very rare case that there *are* comments).

I'm not a fan of blog comments detached from everywhere else either. I wonder 
whether we need them at all. Since we're currently using Disqus and presumably 
would continue to do that, they could always be removed if it turns out even 
better exposure of the blog doesn't result in comments. It's not like what we 
discuss and decide now must be what we're doing unchanged for the next X years 
even if parts don't work…

> Regarding downloads, I think LTS should be presented as the default
> download option, as it should be stabler for new users.  Though that
> could also apply to the current site.

WDYT of http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop ? Something along those lines?

Of course IMO we'd generally like to have people use the weekly releases if 
they have no particular preference, otherwise the LTS releases and their users 
would suffer from undiscovered bugs. I'm just saying we should explain the 
options better.

> Documentation for setup should definitely be clearly structured to be
> useful for various types of people, e.g. for security people, or for
> CentOS admins, or for Debian admins etc.
> …
> "Explaining the terminology" would be good, and should also come with
> some best practices, e.g. treating workspaces as ephemeral, archiving
> artifacts, using downstream jobs — there's lots of stuff that new users
> have little to no hope of discovering on their own.  I guess that would
> come under the "getting started guides" part.


Exactly.


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l10n - unable to commit

[Fernando Boaglio]

Hi there!

I have been translating and commiting stuff to pt_BR for a while but it
looks like I lost my access right a few months ago.

> git push
Enter passphrase for key '/home/fb/.ssh/id_dsa':
ERROR: Permission to jenkinsci/jenkins.git denied to boaglio.
fatal: Could not read from remote repository.

Please make sure you have the correct access rights
and the repository exists.


I thought I should send an Individual CLA and I did last month, but still
can commit. =(

Should I fork for translation now ?

Can you guys fix it and let me commit again ?

Thanks =)


-- 



*Fernando Boaglio*│◦└̅┘◦ ◦ ﴾̭▒̭̊▒̭̊﴿ ﴾̭▓̭̊▓̭̊﴿ ﴾̭░̭̊░̭̊﴿ ◦ ◦ (͡ < ◦ ● ◦└̅┘◦│

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Re: [2.0] Website rebump

[Baptiste Mathus]

2015-10-08 23:06 GMT+02:00 Christopher Orr :

> Thanks for the explanation, and video!  Do you have any old screenshots
> of the Allaire stuff, out of curiosity?
>
> That grid does seems nice, and yeah, we do know which plugins are newest
> (I'm a fan of @jenkins_release) though I do prefer the version without
> icons.. :)
>
> Getting plugin developers to *name* their plugin in a reasonable (and
> consistent) way is hard enough, never mind getting them to add a wiki
> page, and then add a short but meaningful description there... so I'm
> going to be pessimistic about icons, I'm afraid.
>

(Yup, the governance meeting discussion about the required wiki page was,
well, surprising... Anyway)

And at the same time, wouldn't those icons be at least an indicator of the
liveliness of that plugin?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying icon is gonna change everything, but
thinking about I suppose people (not necessarily maintainers themselves)
would want to contribute icons to their favorite & useful plugins. So in
the end, we may reach the goal: showing off most useful & active plugins
first?

My 2 cents

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Re: FW: Jenkins CIA event

[blinder]

conference link
 
direct session info link

-Original Message-From: "Alyssa Tong" Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 17:52To: "Jenkins Dev" Cc: rfaul...@tapqa.com, jbon...@tapqa.com, "Michael Faulise" Subject: Re: FW: Jenkins CIA event

@ Bryan - pls send me the link to the event?
thnx
alyssa


On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Alyssa Tong  wrote:

LOL! lotto ticket is an excellent idea! we may just send you a couple..winning ticket is not guaranteed of course :o)
Lemme check on those standard slides for you. If it's currently not avail now, i'll see if we can have something by your session date (no promises tho :o). Do you have plans on where your next Jenkins CIA session(s) will be after this one?
Pls go ahead and send me the other t-shirt sizes.
Looking forward to your blog.
thnx
alyssa




On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:01 PM,  wrote:

Alyssa,
 
Thanks! The event is confirmed.
 
Finishing the slides tomorrow-ish, so blog could be tomorrow or more likely this weekend.
 
The address in my sig is perfect for stickers and stuff. :)
 
T-shirt sizes: I'm a 4xlt when I can find it. I can guess on Rick and Jennifer, but prefer they chime in here (both are CCd). If there are any extra t-shirts, Mike and Nicole will also be at this event, and promoting our use of Jenkins at the booth - just not at this specific presentation. So please let me know if you want their sizes as well.
 
RE: Help, if those standard slides were ever created we could take a quick look at them for potential inclusion. If not, we'll go with our finalization efforts in progress and let you know if we can think of any other way you could help. Winning lotto tickets are always welcomed!
 
Thanks again!
Bryan


 
-Original Message-From: "Alyssa Tong" Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 16:52To: "Jenkins Dev" , rfaul...@tapqa.com, jbon...@tapqa.comSubject: Re: FW: Jenkins CIA event





Hi Bryan,
Thanks for reaching out. We'd love to have you (Rick, and Jennifer) as CIA. Is your event confirmed as we'll get it added to the events calendar. The next step is having you/Rick or Jennifer do a blog post about your talk to help give it some visibility, would you have ETA for this? As for swag - should we send it to the address in your email signature? Could I pls get your t-shirt sizes pls. In the mean time, if there's anything you need to help you w/ your session, pls don't hesitate to ask.
thanks,
alyssa


On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:50 AM,  wrote:

Trying again now that I... completely... subscribed to the group. :)

-Original Message-From: blin...@tapqa.comSent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 13:22To: jenkinsci-dev@googlegroups.comCc: "Richard Faulise" , "Jennifer Bonine" Subject: Jenkins CIA event

Hi there!
 
We (Rick, Jennifer and I) are presenting at the TechWell DevOps/Agile/Mobile conference next month, and are very interested in the Jenkins CIA program.
 
Our session is on Tuesday November 10th 8:30 am. It is at the Hilton Lake Buena Vista in Disney. Does this qualify as a "public" event?
 
Not sure how many will be in attendance, but based on previous events I'd guess somewhere between 40 and 130.
 
Thanks and hope this helps,
Bryan A. Linder
Principal Consultant
Mobile: 952.221.9283 | Home Office: 651.433.5931 |  blin...@tapqa.com  |  www.tapQA.com   
1660 South Hwy 100, Suite 260, Minneapolis, MN 55416
 
 
 


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Re: l10n - unable to commit

[Kohsuke Kawaguchi]

Hmm, I could be wrong, but I don't see your CLA on file here
.What's
your jenkins-ci.org username?

2015-10-08 16:38 GMT-07:00 Fernando Boaglio :

>
> Hi there!
>
> I have been translating and commiting stuff to pt_BR for a while but it
> looks like I lost my access right a few months ago.
>
> > git push
> Enter passphrase for key '/home/fb/.ssh/id_dsa':
> ERROR: Permission to jenkinsci/jenkins.git denied to boaglio.
> fatal: Could not read from remote repository.
>
> Please make sure you have the correct access rights
> and the repository exists.
>
>
> I thought I should send an Individual CLA and I did last month, but still
> can commit. =(
>
> Should I fork for translation now ?
>
> Can you guys fix it and let me commit again ?
>
> Thanks =)
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Fernando Boaglio*│◦└̅┘◦ ◦ ﴾̭▒̭̊▒̭̊﴿ ﴾̭▓̭̊▓̭̊﴿ ﴾̭░̭̊░̭̊﴿ ◦ ◦ (͡ < ◦ ●
> ◦└̅┘◦│
>
>
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Re: Safari icon plugin

[Kohsuke Kawaguchi]

Yes, it's totally cool that you did this plugin. I don't meant to imply
that you shouldn't have done that. Quite the opposite.

I've added this for 1.633.

2015-10-08 11:41 GMT-07:00 Sunil Patel :

> No reason for it not to be in the core, I'd love for that to happen!
> And that's right, nothing more than the .
>
> I just made the plugin so I could start using the icon at work straight
> away and thought I may as well share it :)
>
> sunil.
>
> On 8 October 2015 at 19:03, Kohsuke Kawaguchi  wrote:
>
>> Thanks, this is cool.
>>
>> Any reason this shouldn't be a part of the core? I'd love to integrate it
>> in there. It's just adding a  tag, right?
>>
>> 2015-10-08 10:56 GMT-07:00 Sunil Patel :
>>
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> Safari 9.0 introduced the ability to pin tabs. The icons for these must
>>> be a solid black svg (and as such the favicon can't be used).
>>>
>>> If you want to add the icon to your jenkins, my super tiny plug-in to do
>>> that is here:
>>> https://github.com/srpatel/jenkins-pinned-tab
>>>
>>> (jenkins-ci username = archduke)
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> sunil.
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: l10n - unable to commit

[Daniel Beck]

The easiest way to contribute is to fork and create a pull request.

On 09.10.2015, at 01:38, Fernando Boaglio  wrote:

> 
> Hi there!
> 
> I have been translating and commiting stuff to pt_BR for a while but it looks 
> like I lost my access right a few months ago.
> 
> > git push 
> Enter passphrase for key '/home/fb/.ssh/id_dsa':  
> ERROR: Permission to jenkinsci/jenkins.git denied to boaglio. 
> fatal: Could not read from remote repository. 
> 
> Please make sure you have the correct access rights 
> and the repository exists.
> 
> 
> I thought I should send an Individual CLA and I did last month, but still can 
> commit. =(
> 
> Should I fork for translation now ?
> 
> Can you guys fix it and let me commit again ?
> 
> Thanks =)
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Fernando Boaglio
> 
> │◦└̅┘◦ ◦ ﴾̭▒̭̊▒̭̊﴿ ﴾̭▓̭̊▓̭̊﴿ ﴾̭░̭̊░̭̊﴿ ◦ ◦ (͡ < ◦ ● ◦└̅┘◦│
> 
> 
> 
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Re: performance labs

[Michael Neale]

Wow fantastic. Actually 3 minutes means that the changes are pretty
successful - I doubt there would be a whole lot to optimise in that case
right? or could be even more lazy loaded? Still, probably a great example.
Taking that base and then adding more plugins and config changes to the mix
would also shed light on when things suddenly go bad.

Is there publicly available tarball backups of that JENKINS_HOME or are
there secrets in it?

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 11:33 PM Andrew Bayer  wrote:

> So builds.apache.org is like 1500 jobs plus another ~30k Maven modules
> (stupid Maven project type!), $JENKINS_HOME is somewhere around 1tb. Until
> recently, startup time was a good 15 minutes or so, but since going from
> 1.565 to 1.609 seems to have made a *massive* difference in startup time -
> down to like three minutes.
>
> A.
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 2:18 AM, Michael Neale 
> wrote:
>
>> Oh wow - they may be a perfect test workload. Do you know if boot up
>> times are in the many many minutes for those instances? Some data on the
>> jenkins_home dir sizes?
>> It would be ideal to use opensource workloads (even if it is a point in
>> time) vs something contrived, or a scrubbed version of a private users data
>> that has donated it, however it would want to be pretty hefty (not
>> necessarily 2TB jenkins_homes that I have heard of, or 40 minute boot up,
>> but something up there would be nice).
>>
>> I guess the next step is an initial scope of what we want to measure. To
>> keep things focussed I am thinking or boot up to job load time, and listing
>> a few things.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 5:55:08 PM UTC+10, Andrew Bayer wrote:
>>>
>>> ...and I can most likely provide builds.apache.org's
>>> jobs/builds/load/etc as a use case.
>>>
>>> A.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Andrew Bayer 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 +1 - that'd be fantastic. I'd love to help with that.

 A.

 On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:50 AM, Michael Neale 
 wrote:

> Hey all - I have thought it would be a great idea to have some quasi
> formal "performance lab" setups for Jenkins.
>
> Recently around Jenkins 2.0 planning threads there have been lots of
> comments around performance challenges. Often things like launch time
> (talking many minutes to an hour for large workspaces - launch times are
> probably a good proxy for a whole lot of issues, but there are other 
> issues
> too).
>
> At JUC west there was an excellent talk by Akshay Dayal from Google,
> on scaling jenkins. I highly recommend flicking through the slides
> 
> or watching the talk
> 
> if you have time.
>
> Basically, they had some performance goals and started by setting up
> measurements and test scenarios to validate their progress - both around
> scalability of slaves (an interesting issue) but also on bootup time (time
> to recovery) which is very interesting. It reminded me that to improve
> something like this you kind of need easily repeatable measurements in
> controlled environments, which currently I don't think the Jenkins project
> has set up? (correct me if wrong).
>
> I know Stephen Connolly did some work a few years back on slave
> scalability which was interesting (building out a test suite
> infrastructure), but I am not aware of subsequent efforts.
>
> Is this something people would be interested in?
>
> Having either large sample JENKINS_HOME specimens or test code that
> can generate pathological data would be required, as well as automation
> around running it on a variety of machines (not necessarily cloud, ideally
> want to be testing code not cloud infrastructure).
>
>
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Re: Request to become maintainer of SeleniumHtmlReportPublisher

[Stefan Lorenz]

Hi there,
I'm back now, we can go further with transfering maintainer role...

Cheers,
Stefan

Oleg Nenashev  schrieb am Mo., 28. Sep. 2015 um
13:46 Uhr:

> It should be better than releasing a new version and then dissapearing for
> a while :)
> Regressions may happen with any plugin, so it's better to monitor the
> situation after the release.
>
> понедельник, 28 сентября 2015 г., 10:06:47 UTC+3 пользователь Stefan
> Lorenz написал:
>>
>> Hi,
>> my jira id is slorenz and github id is sisao.
>>
>> I'll be afk for the next 10 days so the merge and a new plugin release
>> have to wait a few more days :-)
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Stefan
>>
>> Oleg Nenashev  schrieb am So., 27. Sep. 2015 21:52:
>>
> Hi Stefan,
>>>
>>> We commonly grant permissions if there is no response from the owner
>>> within two weeks.
>>> If there is no response by Tuesday, the permissions will be granted.
>>>
>>> Please specify your GitHub ID and Jenkins JIRA ID. They are required to
>>> transfer the permissions
>>>
>>> четверг, 24 сентября 2015 г., 11:28:13 UTC+3 пользователь Stefan Lorenz
>>> написал:

 Do I have to request something else or do I just have to wait?

>>> 2015-09-15 18:55 GMT+02:00 Stefan Lorenz :

>>>
> If there is something to improve or if there are issues to solve, I
> think can do that...
>
> Jglick mentioned that I should ask here for the maintainer role..
>
>
> Am Dienstag, 15. September 2015 13:48:25 UTC+2 schrieb Daniel Beck:
>>
>> Hi Stefan,
>>
>> it looks like the plugin has been abandoned with the last activity
>> years ago, so that should definitely be possible.
>>
>> Still, CCing the previous maintainer.
>>
>> Just to clarify, you'd like to become maintainer, i.e. work further
>> on improving the plugin rather than just merging your PR and moving on?
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On 15.09.2015, at 09:31, Stefan Lorenz  wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I recently worked on the SeleniumHtmlReportPublisher plugin to
>> extend it for working together with Workflow plugin.
>> > It now implements SimpleBuildStep and has some more tests.
>> > The pull request is ready to merge but it seems that the current
>> maintainer has abandoned this project, he also didn't respond to email.
>> >
>> > So is it possible for me to become the maintainer?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Stefan
>> >
>> >
>> > https://github.com/jenkinsci/seleniumhtmlreport/pull/4
>> > https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-28388
>> >
>> > --
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Re: [2.0] Website rebump

[Gus Reiber]

Yeah, so if I am understanding you correctly, Robert, you are saying that
you would like to be able to highlight some bits of content over others? I
would think that would just be a matter of marking particular content
pieces with a tag that pushes them to the top of the homepage. It also
sounds like you are suggesting these so marked articles should have some
marketing-ish goop associated with them.

Personally, I think the demonstration of Jenkins extensibility is more
impressive than the saying of it. And, that demonstration is the plugins.
Thus rather than an article that say 'hey look, we are extensible', I would
think we would just want to go straight into showing off the plugins, just
as http://getbootstrap.com/ goes straight into showing you Bootstrap or the
Play store goes straight into showing you the Andoid apps or
http://www.deviantart.com/ goes straight into showing you the art. To me,
showing off the plugins screams extensibility and the content stays fresh
by virtue of the fact that people are interacting with the plugins
themselves. Sure we need to be able to get to blogs and events and doc, but
so do these sites, and they do. Compare that with http://arquillian.org/,
which is a prefectly fine site, but page 1 packs no punch in part becuase
it lacks a particular angle to the story it wants to tell. Yawn, yawn, they
have a blog and events and stuff...

What concerns me about the technology discussion, is that if you buy my
pitch that the second most important thing Jenkins-ci.org does today
(behind allowing the download of Jenkins) is hosting the plugins, there is
a whole set of things we need to start doing in order to do that right. The
essence of that effort will be blending metadata from the plugin author,
community users, and a site curator and then serving that up to the user in
a flexible fashion.

There are some real technical challenges there and if anything, it seems
like moving to a more static site model is a move away from providing that
value. Maybe not. I just am not seeing the glue that would hold the
anonymous markdown files together. I am sure it can be done.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Kohsuke Kawaguchi  wrote:

>
>
> 2015-10-08 3:08 GMT-07:00 Robert Sandell :
>
>> Do we have any site statistics on the current site of what pages are most
>> frequently viewed? That could feed into a perhaps better discussion on what
>> type of information to focus on.
>>
>
> We have it connected to Google Analytics. I think Tyler has access to it
> but I don't.
>
>
> One thing that makes me a bit uneasy in the discussion so far is the fact
>> that both Daniel and Gus seems to glance over the "Documentation" part as
>> just being a category and not that there are many important things behind
>> that category.
>>
>> To me one of the "selling points" of choosing Jenkins way back in the day
>> was the meaning behind "Highly Extensible". It doesn't only mean that there
>> are 1095 different plugins I can install, but that there is a possibility
>> that I can make Jenkins do whatever *I* want.
>> Something that today is very front and center on the home page. By
>> clicking the link "Extend Jenkins" I can learn how to do that (we can
>> perhaps argue about the quality of the docs behind that link) but the fact
>> that it's front and center on the page is an important notion to me and a
>> very important feature of Jenkins itself and possible the biggest reason
>> for us having such a wonderful and vibrant dev community could be
>> attributed to the fact that users can "upgrade" themselves with just a
>> click on the home page instead of diving into the depths of the
>> documentation pages. And I think that's nothing to be glanced over and just
>> put into the "Documentation" category.
>>
>> Yes in the theme of 2.0 it is important to focus on new visitors/users,
>> but I would argue that it's equally important to cater to the users that
>> are coming back to the site after the initial experience, and make them
>> want to come back for more in depth knowledge.
>>
>
> I think in due time the discussion will shift more and more to contents
> and less on tech. It's already happening!
>
> And I fully agree that "extending Jenkins" is an important part of the
> value that we want to pitch.
>
> I could really use somebody with an experience in this to guide us
> through, but what I thought Gus told me is that we first want to hash out
> what content we need to be on the website, then figure out which ones are
> more important and what personas we are targetting. Then how to organize
> the content kinda follow from there.
>
>
>
>>
>> /B
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Daniel Beck  wrote:
>>
>>> On 08.10.2015, at 06:39, Gus Reiber  wrote:
>>>
>>> > I understand the urge to keep the scope manageable, but I am not sure
>>> I see in Daniel's list where the improvement is likely to come. It is a
>>> little 

Re: Safari icon plugin

[Sunil Patel]

No reason for it not to be in the core, I'd love for that to happen!
And that's right, nothing more than the .

I just made the plugin so I could start using the icon at work straight
away and thought I may as well share it :)

sunil.

On 8 October 2015 at 19:03, Kohsuke Kawaguchi  wrote:

> Thanks, this is cool.
>
> Any reason this shouldn't be a part of the core? I'd love to integrate it
> in there. It's just adding a  tag, right?
>
> 2015-10-08 10:56 GMT-07:00 Sunil Patel :
>
>> Hello!
>>
>> Safari 9.0 introduced the ability to pin tabs. The icons for these must
>> be a solid black svg (and as such the favicon can't be used).
>>
>> If you want to add the icon to your jenkins, my super tiny plug-in to do
>> that is here:
>> https://github.com/srpatel/jenkins-pinned-tab
>>
>> (jenkins-ci username = archduke)
>>
>> Thanks
>> sunil.
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Kohsuke Kawaguchi
>
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FW: Jenkins CIA event

[blinder]

Trying again now that I... completely... subscribed to the group. :)

-Original Message-From: blin...@tapqa.comSent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 13:22To: jenkinsci-dev@googlegroups.comCc: "Richard Faulise" , "Jennifer Bonine" Subject: Jenkins CIA event

Hi there!
 
We (Rick, Jennifer and I) are presenting at the TechWell DevOps/Agile/Mobile conference next month, and are very interested in the Jenkins CIA program.
 
Our session is on Tuesday November 10th 8:30 am. It is at the Hilton Lake Buena Vista in Disney. Does this qualify as a "public" event?
 
Not sure how many will be in attendance, but based on previous events I'd guess somewhere between 40 and 130.
 
Thanks and hope this helps,
Bryan A. Linder
Principal Consultant
Mobile: 952.221.9283 | Home Office: 651.433.5931 |  blin...@tapqa.com  |  www.tapQA.com   
1660 South Hwy 100, Suite 260, Minneapolis, MN 55416
 
 
 





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Re: [2.0] Website rebump

[Baptiste Mathus]

2015-10-08 20:36 GMT+02:00 Gus Reiber :

> Yeah, so if I am understanding you correctly, Robert, you are saying that
> you would like to be able to highlight some bits of content over others? I
> would think that would just be a matter of marking particular content
> pieces with a tag that pushes them to the top of the homepage. It also
> sounds like you are suggesting these so marked articles should have some
> marketing-ish goop associated with them.
>
> Personally, I think the demonstration of Jenkins extensibility is more
> impressive than the saying of it. And, that demonstration is the plugins.
> Thus rather than an article that say 'hey look, we are extensible', I would
> think we would just want to go straight into showing off the plugins, just
> as http://getbootstrap.com/ goes straight into showing you Bootstrap or
> the Play store goes straight into showing you the Andoid apps or
> http://www.deviantart.com/ goes straight into showing you the art. To me,
> showing off the plugins screams extensibility and the content stays fresh
> by virtue of the fact that people are interacting with the plugins
> themselves.
>

You convinced me Gus.

IMO, we can indeed show off the plugins, showing the enormous numbers of
themes where Jenkins can actually change its behaviour by being extensible
and having been extended by plugins.
And in that list of things, I would imagine some list of themes/examples of
customizations (i.e. plugins), and in the end some kind of sentence like
"You didn't find the thing you're looking for? You can write write one
plugin for your precise needs => link to 'how to extend by creating a
plugin'".


> Sure we need to be able to get to blogs and events and doc, but so do
> these sites, and they do. Compare that with http://arquillian.org/, which
> is a prefectly fine site, but page 1 packs no punch in part becuase it
> lacks a particular angle to the story it wants to tell. Yawn, yawn, they
> have a blog and events and stuff...
>
> What concerns me about the technology discussion, is that if you buy my
> pitch that the second most important thing Jenkins-ci.org does today
> (behind allowing the download of Jenkins) is hosting the plugins, there is
> a whole set of things we need to start doing in order to do that right. The
> essence of that effort will be blending metadata from the plugin author,
> community users, and a site curator and then serving that up to the user in
> a flexible fashion.
>

+1. Showing off a list of plugins is a work per-se. Thinking out loud here,
but I suppose the categorization's work going on for the wizard could
somehow be reused/factorized here.


> There are some real technical challenges there and if anything, it seems
> like moving to a more static site model is a move away from providing that
> value. Maybe not. I just am not seeing the glue that would hold the
> anonymous markdown files together. I am sure it can be done.
>

That would btw be another subject (flamewar?): would we stick to markdown,
or asciidoc? (I'm for the latter... Markdown does not actually really
exist, there are markdownS... Flavours etc.)

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